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Will the delay in voting impact on the outcome? – politicalbetting.com

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Phil said:

    So, odds on Truss calling an immediate GE?

    Whoever wins the leadership contest, they may well be thinking: better to go to the country with the excuse of needing a mandate for a new direction /now/ before the winter hits hard followed up by a year or more of grinding recession.

    Alternatively, two years is a long time. Maybe something will turn up & it’s better to have the guarantee of two years of power to steer the narrative?

    Thoughts?

    She would be mad to call a GE because she would lose it and become a byword for loserdom for the rest of time. if she sticks it out she gets 2 years vs 2 months as PM and the chance to hang on as LOTO, whereas if she goes early and loses she is toast.

    Ask again if the Tories have a 15% vi lead in September.
    What would be the point of electing Labour when they have nothing to say on the col? I'd be happy to give them a go, goodness knows the Tories seem tired, but what for? I cannot think of a single policy they have that would make the country better.
    They would find plenty to say in a snap GE campaign. Windfall taxes and nationalisations and wealth taxes.

    What Truss policy would make the country better
    Truss has signalled that she would prefer fields to be used for growing food rather than for solar panels - I realise her passion for BRITISH CHEESE and PORK MARKETS has been mocked, but I would very much support a pro-food security policy from her. We'll see what materialises. I also agree with amending the NIP unilaterally if other methods prove unfruitful - this is a fundamental issue of the integrity of the Kingdom for me. I don't see Labour sorting that one out. I also favour her pro-energy security agenda - greenlighting new North Sea Oil projects and looking at fracking again. That's again something we won't see from Labour.

    Obviously this is all leadership election fluff, but those things are at least a bit encouraging.
    "looking at fracking again"

    Fracking will only lose the Tories votes. Those fracking sites are nearly all Tory seats, a lot of them not very safe Tory seats.
    How’s about if they got a cheque every year, instead of a council tax bill?

    That’s the way you deal with fracking, allow local authorities to tax the output.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    MISTY said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Unless some scandal breaks about Truss in the next few weeks I doubt it makes much difference

    Strange that covid seems to have helped me decide that either is fine by me, but just get on with it

    At least they are not Boris who has gone absent on holiday and will not be missed by the public at large to whom he had become a complete liability
    33% of 2019 Conservative voters still want Boris to lead them compared to 26% for Truss and 24% for Sunak

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11042775/And-favourite-Boris-Grassroots-backlash-putsch-growing.html

    Even amongst Tory members voting for Truss 49% would prefer Boris as PM to just 45% for Truss
    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1554797759290642433?s=20&t=V6Qc_AZ5m8Y0FUL6hpgUWQ
    Proof positive that a percentage of people in this country are so thick that it is a sad indictment of our education system. Boris Johnson is a liar and an incompetent of such an extreme that he is completely unfit for office. I don't much like Truss, and Sunak fails to inspire me, but both have little chance of being as appalling as Johnson.
    If Truss proves a disaster, she may end up just keeping the seat warm until the return of Boris, the Prince across the Water
    Boris vs Kemi would be an interesting match up...what would your view on that be?
    Boris as Trump, Kemi as DeSantis? Depends which of them got enough MPs to be the main candidate of the right, they would then win the membership vote
    I may live regret this statement, but Johnson ain't coming back.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    The history of how it was written (not as you describe) is however, fascinating. Perhaps the most unlikely part is the creation of the King James Bible, which was created by committees of committees of leading academics who in general heartily loathed each other. Almost certainly guaranteed to fail, and yet, we have one of the great works of English literature….it’s almost as though a higher power was involved…
    I had my eyes opened to what a magnificent construct the KJB was when I went to an exhibition at my old school on it. 10% of the translators were old boys and they had loads of original manuscripts and translations as well as the Hebrew, Latin and Greek original bibles that John Harmar worked from and produced.

    It’s a thing of beauty whether you believe or not and a masterpiece of prose possibly up ther with the Canterbury Tales in the history of literature.
  • IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    It is, the Gideons may not be that bothered if you took it away to read but certainly would be if you binned it. The hotel could certainly seek to get you prosecuted for theft from its property
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Ugely doubtful whether the dishonesty requirement is met, and I have to say that your resort to the legal pied de la lettre is what I'd call pharisaical, and Our Lord was as strongly against Pharisees as he was in favour of same sex relationships.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    The history of how it was written (not as you describe) is however, fascinating. Perhaps the most unlikely part is the creation of the King James Bible, which was created by committees of committees of leading academics who in general heartily loathed each other. Almost certainly guaranteed to fail, and yet, we have one of the great works of English literature….it’s almost as though a higher power was involved…
    Oddly, the same approach was used for the New International Version, and while not in the same class as a work of literature it's still a very good job.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Received my ballot and sent it back.

    That little package will stink up their office for days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs
    somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs
    which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your
    attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that
    you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    I think we should let HYUFD enjoy an evening of a little less conversation, a little more action.

  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited August 2022
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    It is, the Gideons may not be that bothered if you took it away to read but certainly would be if you binned it. The hotel could certainly seek to get you prosecuted for theft from its property
    There's no certainty about it all, have a look at the case law about dishonest appropriation.

    ETA and "property belonging to another."
  • HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    You think that is something they should be proud of ?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    There’s also more about them here:

    https://gideonsinternational.org.uk/2021/10/13/the-gideons-in-the-uk/

    How pitiful a story is that? The whole thing in the UK fell apart because a minority opposed the majority wish to delete the rule that allows only men, not women, to be members?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,916
    edited August 2022
    biggles said:

    Sky garden update. Still not many red tomatoes, but hundreds of green ones. Cucumbers still flourishing, though mostly now about 3ft below the ‘sky’ garden bit





    Ooooo. I’m stealing that idea.
    It's working wonderfully, but I'm a bit worried about having to leave it alone for about 50 hours from midday tomorrow (I'm going to London for football on Saturday straight from the Job Centre tomorrow, and won't be home until Sunday) and haven't found anyone to water it on Saturday. Everyone I know is away

    Oh, and @Cyclefree I'd highly recommend both of these tomato varieties (I think you asked for top tumbling types earlier in the year?) - Cherry Fountain, and Tumbling Tom Yellow. Both were bought from Waitrose for £2.49 each, and supplied to them by Suttons
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,863
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    It is, the Gideons may not be that bothered if you took it away to read but certainly would be if you binned it. The hotel could certainly seek to get you prosecuted for theft from its property
    Maybe I started reading it, but the storyline in the first chapter seemed to be so incredible that even Leon wouldn’t have believed it? So I binned it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,924

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    You think that is something they should be proud of ?
    If they were of religious conviction that marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    I know they are a bunch of chancers I'm talking about you. In the end, there is only you and your conscience.

    Your party is pro-leave but you are a remainer; it is pro-gay marriage and you are against it.

    Yes of course you respect the decision, blah, blah but we are talking about your beliefs. You believe that it was best for the UK to stay in the EU and you believe that gay marriage is wrong.

    Respecting the will of the majority is irrelevant unless you tell me you will be an enthusiastic Labour Party supporter should they win the next General Election.

    So you have some thinking to do young fella. Plus you didn't tell us if you are headed for heaven or hell when it's all over.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361
    TOPPING said:

    Canada is joining New Zealand and the Netherlands in sending military trainers to the UK to help train Ukrainian soldiers.

    You mean like these?



    No.

    Like these (content warning: flags)

    https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/dnd-mdn/images/operations/unifier/AK03-2019-0083-023.jpg
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    OK @HYUFD I think that's it on the reglious/political/eternal damnation/salvation discussion.

    I hope you have a great evening.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    Even in the bad old days there was a feelth channel on the TV, first 5 minutes free and then it went on your bill

    allegedly
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,719
    I see the Attorney General is now an expert on the complexities of interest setting.

  • rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    You think that is something they should be proud of ?
    If they were of religious conviction that marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Pure unacceptable prejudice by an 'intolerant' minority
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    I see the Attorney General is now an expert on the complexities of interest setting.

    Well, that's good to hear. Everyone should be expert on something. If only she were an expert on law.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    You think that is something they should be proud of ?
    If they were of religious conviction that marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Jesus Christ. even if that were the paradoxical message of the teachings of an active homosexual (and I don't see it anywhere) it isn't the main emphasis, is it? There is rather more about not being a shit, and not causing pain and injustice by sticking unimaginatively to a load of arbitrary rules, all of which seems to pass you by.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,388

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments, but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with teenagers.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Very funny I am on the train and just received for some reason the Cons party email from the co-chair, Andrew Stephenson, about "what matters to you most".

    The couple I'm sitting next to turned to each other and asked - "Is Andrew Stephenson [Cons co-chair] our MP? Why have I just received an email from him?". To which the other said no he's not but I've no idea who is.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    You think that is something they should be proud of ?
    If they were of religious conviction that marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    God didn't marry the mother of His only begotten son.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    In other news, this is almost positive in the dropping of pretence. Oh well, no doubt saying war is bad and people want peace should do it.

    “In the clearest sign that the referendums will go ahead … Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Russia had changed the geography in Ukraine, effectively redrawing its borders. He threatened that Moscow would claim even more Ukrainian territory unless the West stopped arming Kyiv.”

    What’s fascinating here is complete lack of pretence from Lavrov that this is anything other than an arbitrary land grab—nothing to do with protecting Russians, liberating Donbas etc. It’s 1930/40s style territorial aggrandisement. Chilling vision for Europe & has to be stopped.
    Shashank Joshi
    @shashj

    Jenkins refers to it as a "border dispute" in his Guardian article.
    Simon Jenkins is an ideological pacifist who doesn't believe in any form of defence spending.

    He's a good reminder that people who are very clever can have stupid prejudices.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    You think that is something they should be proud of ?
    If they were of religious conviction that marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Don't you think your boy Jesus would have been more open minded?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments,
    but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with
    teenagers.
    Genesis won’t have popularity with teenagers until they use one of their songs in “Stranger things”.

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I see the Attorney General is now an expert on the complexities of interest setting.

    The law was not her sphere of expertise.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Phil said:

    So, odds on Truss calling an immediate GE?

    Whoever wins the leadership contest, they may well be thinking: better to go to the country with the excuse of needing a mandate for a new direction /now/ before the winter hits hard followed up by a year or more of grinding recession.

    Alternatively, two years is a long time. Maybe something will turn up & it’s better to have the guarantee of two years of power to steer the narrative?

    Thoughts?

    She would be mad to call a GE because she would lose it and become a byword for loserdom for the rest of time. if she sticks it out she gets 2 years vs 2 months as PM and the chance to hang on as LOTO, whereas if she goes early and loses she is toast.

    Ask again if the Tories have a 15% vi lead in September.
    What would be the point of electing Labour when they have nothing to say on the col? I'd be happy to give them a go, goodness knows the Tories seem tired, but what for? I cannot think of a single policy they have that would make the country better.
    They would find plenty to say in a snap GE campaign. Windfall taxes and nationalisations and wealth taxes.

    What Truss policy would make the country better
    Truss has signalled that she would prefer fields to be used for growing food rather than for solar panels - I realise her passion for BRITISH CHEESE and PORK MARKETS has been mocked, but I would very much support a pro-food security policy from her. We'll see what materialises. I also agree with amending the NIP unilaterally if other methods prove unfruitful - this is a fundamental issue of the integrity of the Kingdom for me. I don't see Labour sorting that one out. I also favour her pro-energy security agenda - greenlighting new North Sea Oil projects and looking at fracking again. That's again something we won't see from Labour.

    Obviously this is all leadership election fluff, but those things are at least a bit encouraging.
    "looking at fracking again"

    Fracking will only lose the Tories votes. Those fracking sites are nearly all Tory seats, a lot of them not very safe Tory seats.
    How’s about if they got a cheque every year, instead of a council tax bill?

    That’s the way you deal with fracking, allow local authorities to tax the output.
    Fracking wouldn't generate enough to cover the cost of a large school let alone the tax revenue of a local authority...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments, but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with teenagers.
    Who actually would fall for that Cut off the end of your dick to show you trust me shtick?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    Are you suggesting that the key criteria of a cult is how many people are followers? Christianity is safe there but a few other faiths might not qualify depending on where you set the line.
    My understanding of the definition of a cult is not based on numbers. I am a (lapsed) Roman Catholic, but I think you can refer to Christianity as a cult when using a pure definition. That said the word "cult" is normally used in a pejorative way, so I can understand HYUFD being offended. When most people think of cults they think of the Moonies, or Scientology.
    Evangelical religion should be treated as a mental illness.... heck, ALL religion should be. Talking to imaginary friends is something you are supposed to grow out of by primary school.
    Absolutely not, commitment to God and Christ as a guiding force for your life is vital and leads you to eternal life far greater than this one
    No it's not. There is no life greater than this one. This is all you get, so make the most of THIS life. The decisions you make are yours alone. No one is guiding you and no devil is misleading you. The responsibility for all that you do stops with you.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    Are you suggesting that the key criteria of a cult is how many people are followers? Christianity is safe there but a few other faiths might not qualify depending on where you set the line.
    My understanding of the definition of a cult is not based on numbers. I am a (lapsed) Roman Catholic, but I think you can refer to Christianity as a cult when using a pure definition. That said the word "cult" is normally used in a pejorative way, so I can understand HYUFD being offended. When most people think of cults they think of the Moonies, or Scientology.
    Evangelical religion should be treated as a mental illness.... heck, ALL religion should be. Talking to imaginary friends is something you are supposed to grow out of by primary school.
    Absolutely not, commitment to God and Christ as a guiding force for your life is vital and leads you to eternal life far greater than this one
    No it's not. There is no life greater than this one. This is all you get, so make the most of THIS life. The decisions you make are yours alone. No one is guiding you and no devil is misleading you. The responsibility for all that you do stops with you.
    You are Jean-Paul Sartre, and I claim my £5.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and
    reverse it
    You think that is something they should be
    proud of ?


    If they were of religious conviction that
    marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Don't you think your boy Jesus would have been more open minded?
    Jesus was a carpenter from Royal stock. Son of a god. He’d have an old warehouse in Hoxton turning out wooden penny farthings now and nobody would bat an eyelid at his intense relationship with a load of other beardy guys and a prostitue.

    He was the original hipster. Good old family, famous name, major contacts - even went on one of those desert breaks to find himself.

    Basically Viscount Linley crossed with Zowie Bowie/Duncan Jones

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    .
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    Likely distributed by the UK branch of the Gideons.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International

    As a registered charity, giving them away free, I think they’re unlikely to sue.
    Almost certainly it’s not theft in any event.

    HYUFD continues to have very odd ideas.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments, but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with teenagers.
    Who actually would fall for that Cut off the
    end of your dick to show you trust me shtick?

    You’ve pinched that from a Beyoncé song haven’t you?

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited August 2022
    TOPPING said:

    Very funny I am on the train and just received for some reason the Cons party email from the co-chair, Andrew Stephenson, about "what matters to you most".

    The couple I'm sitting next to turned to each other and asked - "Is Andrew Stephenson [Cons co-chair] our MP? Why have I just received an email from him?". To which the other said no he's not but I've no idea who is.

    Scenes from the Gammon Express
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments, but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with teenagers.
    Also remember that when the mob showed up at Lot's door, he offered his daughters for gang rape if they would go away and leave him alone. Apparently Lot was a "good man"......
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    It is, the Gideons may not be that bothered if you took it away to read but certainly would be if you binned it. The hotel could certainly seek to get you prosecuted for theft from its property
    ‘Certainly’ not.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments, but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with teenagers.
    Who actually would fall for that Cut off the
    end of your dick to show you trust me shtick?

    You’ve pinched that from a Beyoncé song haven’t you?

    It does have a faintly rap aspect to it now you mention it. Or grime.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    I remember it from the first announcement back in January 2021 and it's got no saner

    If you want an overview of how stupid it is watch the How would Manhattan look video at https://www.neom.com/en-us/regions/theline?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited August 2022
    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    And something like 30% to end 2024 according to my calcs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    Well, yes.

    But the idea of an entirely linear city is rather interesting: it means you can have just a couple of rail tracks running at different speeds, and can reach any point on it, very quickly.

    Of course, it will probably be an enormous failure, but at least the Saudi government is spending their money on crazy vanity projects rather than funding Islamic terrorists.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    This help


  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments, but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with teenagers.
    Also remember that when the mob showed up at Lot's door, he offered his daughters for
    gang rape if they would go away and leave him alone. Apparently Lot was a "good man"......
    Well if Jesus went to Glastonbury it looks like Lot went to Rotherham.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Straight in at no 1 in my loathsome Tory list is the moron Braverman. Pushing Bozo into second place . And if she gets the Home Secretary job expect to hear her beating the drum for a return of the death penalty .
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    The UK has a linear city, sort of.

    Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - Hull.

    You could even add the north Wales resorts.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    It is, the Gideons may not be that bothered if you took it away to read but certainly would be if you binned it. The hotel could certainly seek to get you prosecuted for theft from its property
    There are worse fates for a Gideons Bible. When I was a first year at QMW, my halls was in a tower block in South Woodford. Midway through the year, a strange thing started happening in our tower: deposits would be left. Sometimes in the lift. Sometimes in the stairwell. Sometimes right in the entranceway. The unknown culprit became referred to as "The phantom shi**er of Old London Town."

    One night, he did a dump in the Gideons Bible in the communal area, and closed it hard, causing a spray of filth.

    He was apparently caught when a rugger player was with his GF, and the lift doors opened to reveal the culprit with his trousers and pants around his ankles, mid-dump.

    Some people are weird.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076
    edited August 2022
    While we're on the topic of religion, the aspect that irritates me most in this country is the fact that publicly funded schools are still allowed to discriminate admissions based on a child's parents' religious beliefs (or their willingness to feign belief). I mean state schools teaching one religion is correct is objectionable enough, but the admissions criteria (or having a large number of places selected in this way) is just plain wrong.

    My wife and I have chosen to dodge this by favouring areas with high quality quality non-religious state schools, but it's surprising how much that rules out.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.
    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    1 Kings 14 has its moments, but I've always found Genesis 17:11 and 19:30-38 to be extremely popular with teenagers.
    Who actually would fall for that Cut off the
    end of your dick to show you trust me shtick?

    You’ve pinched that from a Beyoncé song haven’t you?

    It does have a faintly rap aspect to it now you mention it. Or grime.
    And there’s me thinking circumcision was to prevent build up of grime.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and
    reverse it
    You think that is something they should be
    proud of ?


    If they were of religious conviction that
    marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Don't you think your boy Jesus would have been more open minded?
    Jesus was a carpenter from Royal stock. Son of a god. He’d have an old warehouse in Hoxton turning out wooden penny farthings now and nobody would bat an eyelid at his intense relationship with a load of other beardy guys and a prostitue.

    He was the original hipster. Good old family, famous name, major contacts - even went on one of those desert breaks to find himself.

    Basically Viscount Linley crossed with Zowie Bowie/Duncan Jones

    If Jesus directed Source Code he's a genius.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and
    reverse it
    You think that is something they should be
    proud of ?


    If they were of religious conviction that
    marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Don't you think your boy Jesus would have been more open minded?
    Jesus was a carpenter from Royal stock. Son of a god. He’d have an old warehouse in Hoxton turning out wooden penny farthings now and nobody would bat an eyelid at his intense relationship with a load
    of other beardy guys and a prostitue.

    He was the original hipster. Good old family, famous name, major contacts - even went on one of those desert breaks to find himself.

    Basically Viscount Linley crossed with Zowie Bowie/Duncan Jones

    If Jesus directed Source Code he's a genius.
    He did.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    Well, yes.

    But the idea of an entirely linear city is rather interesting: it means you can have just a couple of rail tracks running at different speeds, and can reach any point on it, very quickly.

    Of course, it will probably be an enormous failure, but at least the Saudi government is spending their money on crazy vanity projects rather than funding Islamic terrorists.
    I just cannot help but think of a linear version of the Kowloon walled city:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited August 2022
    eek said:

    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    This help


    Thanks - though that graph shows energy only contributing 1% to inflation by 2023 Q4 (main line) yet FT says inflation still over 10% in 2023 Q4 - implying huge contribution from OTHER sources.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    The UK has a linear city, sort of.

    Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - Hull.

    You could even add the north Wales resorts.

    The UK Sprawl: Boston-Atlanta Metropolitan Axis.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and
    reverse it
    You think that is something they should be
    proud of ?


    If they were of religious conviction that
    marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Don't you think your boy Jesus would have been more open minded?
    Jesus was a carpenter from Royal stock. Son of a god. He’d have an old warehouse in Hoxton turning out wooden penny farthings now and nobody would bat an eyelid at his intense relationship with a load of other beardy guys and a prostitue.

    He was the original hipster. Good old family, famous name, major contacts - even went on one of those desert breaks to find himself.

    Basically Viscount Linley crossed with Zowie Bowie/Duncan Jones

    If Jesus directed Source Code he's a genius.
    Moon really pisses me off. Probably very good, but why is there only one of him, not 3 to cover for illness? And something makes a sound in a vacuum in the opening 5 minutes. Probably a brilliant film but I can't watch it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    Sandpit said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Phil said:

    So, odds on Truss calling an immediate GE?

    Whoever wins the leadership contest, they may well be thinking: better to go to the country with the excuse of needing a mandate for a new direction /now/ before the winter hits hard followed up by a year or more of grinding recession.

    Alternatively, two years is a long time. Maybe something will turn up & it’s better to have the guarantee of two years of power to steer the narrative?

    Thoughts?

    She would be mad to call a GE because she would lose it and become a byword for loserdom for the rest of time. if she sticks it out she gets 2 years vs 2 months as PM and the chance to hang on as LOTO, whereas if she goes early and loses she is toast.

    Ask again if the Tories have a 15% vi lead in September.
    What would be the point of electing Labour when they have nothing to say on the col? I'd be happy to give them a go, goodness knows the Tories seem tired, but what for? I cannot think of a single policy they have that would make the country better.
    They would find plenty to say in a snap GE campaign. Windfall taxes and nationalisations and wealth taxes.

    What Truss policy would make the country better
    Truss has signalled that she would prefer fields to be used for growing food rather than for solar panels - I realise her passion for BRITISH CHEESE and PORK MARKETS has been mocked, but I would very much support a pro-food security policy from her. We'll see what materialises. I also agree with amending the NIP unilaterally if other methods prove unfruitful - this is a fundamental issue of the integrity of the Kingdom for me. I don't see Labour sorting that one out. I also favour her pro-energy security agenda - greenlighting new North Sea Oil projects and looking at fracking again. That's again something we won't see from Labour.

    Obviously this is all leadership election fluff, but those things are at least a bit encouraging.
    "looking at fracking again"

    Fracking will only lose the Tories votes. Those fracking sites are nearly all Tory seats, a lot of them not very safe Tory seats.
    How’s about if they got a cheque every year, instead of a council tax bill?

    That’s the way you deal with fracking, allow local authorities to tax the output.
    But does that work economically? Is there enough profit to keep all the householders happy? And what do you do with householders unhappy with the mini-earthquakes before the money starts coming in?
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    IshmaelZ said:

    The UK has a linear city, sort of.

    Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - Hull.

    You could even add the north Wales resorts.

    The UK Sprawl: Boston-Atlanta Metropolitan Axis.
    The “blue banana”; London - Brussels - Ruhr/Cologne - Frankfurt - Zurich - Milan
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,592
    It looks like another Russian ship *may* have had another unfortunate accident in the Black Sea.

    Though such claims have been made before; some have been true (Moskva et al), whilst others have not. But it appears something is burning - I just hope it's not a grain ship...
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited August 2022
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    Are you suggesting that the key criteria of a cult is how many people are followers? Christianity is safe there but a few other faiths might not qualify depending on where you set the line.
    My understanding of the definition of a cult is not based on numbers. I am a (lapsed) Roman Catholic, but I think you can refer to Christianity as a cult when using a pure definition. That said the word "cult" is normally used in a pejorative way, so I can understand HYUFD being offended. When most people think of cults they think of the Moonies, or Scientology.
    Evangelical religion should be treated as a mental illness.... heck, ALL religion should be. Talking to imaginary friends is something you are supposed to grow out of by primary school.
    Absolutely not, commitment to God and Christ as a guiding force for your life is vital and leads you to eternal life far greater than this one
    No it's not. There is no life greater than this one. This is all you get, so make the most of THIS life. The decisions you make are yours alone. No one is guiding you and no devil is misleading you. The responsibility for all that you do stops with you.
    You are Jean-Paul Sartre, and I claim my £5.
    Zut alors! Ma identite secrete n'est plus!!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    But it is the law of the land, as signed off by the Head of the Church, that same-sex marriages can occur. So why is the Established Church in England allowing its priests to ignore the law of the land? What's the point of Erastianism if you aren't going to do it properly?
    Yes but civil law is distinct from theological law. In time I expect the church of England will allow priests to conduct gay marriages or not based on individual conscience as some parts of the Anglican Communion already do but we are not there yet
    But Church and State are not distinct and separate in the English polity. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" does not mean putting Caesar in charge of the things that are God's.

    You are saying one thing on one hand and something quite different on another hand. Christ had a word for this. Hypocrisy.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    Are you suggesting that the key criteria of a cult is how many people are followers? Christianity is safe there but a few other faiths might not qualify depending on where you set the line.
    My understanding of the definition of a cult is not based on numbers. I am a (lapsed) Roman Catholic, but I think you can refer to Christianity as a cult when using a pure definition. That said the word "cult" is normally used in a pejorative way, so I can understand HYUFD being offended. When most people think of cults they think of the Moonies, or Scientology.
    Evangelical religion should be treated as a mental illness.... heck, ALL religion should be. Talking to imaginary friends is something you are supposed to grow out of by primary school.
    Absolutely not, commitment to God and Christ as a guiding force for your life is vital and leads you to eternal life far greater than this one
    No it's not. There is no life greater than this one. This is all you get, so make the most of THIS life. The decisions you make are yours alone. No one is guiding you and no devil is misleading you. The responsibility for all that you do stops with you.
    You are Jean-Paul Sartre, and I claim my
    £5.
    Zut alors! Ma identite secrete n'est plus!!

    You are Officer Crabtree, and I claim my £5.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    Well, yes.

    But the idea of an entirely linear city is rather interesting: it means you can have just a couple of rail tracks running at different speeds, and can reach any point on it, very quickly.

    Of course, it will probably be an enormous failure, but at least the Saudi government is spending their money on crazy vanity projects rather than funding Islamic terrorists.
    I just cannot help but think of a linear version of the Kowloon walled city:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City
    Or the equatorial one on the planet in Iain M. Banks's *The Hydrogen Sonata*.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,945
    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    This help?

    https://twitter.com/AllegraStratton/status/1555230630790799362
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and reverse it
    You think that is something they should be proud of ?
    If they were of religious conviction that marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Never made much sense that. I mean, I presume Christians with this position acknowledge that people get married all around the world, with Muslim weddings, Jewish weddings, Hindu weddings, Buddhist weddings, Sikh weddings, Druze weddings, Mandaean weddings, Shinto weddings, atheist weddings and more. But presumably they don’t recognise any of these as being valid marriages as they’re not in front of (the right) God. So if you’re going to put up with billions of godless marriages anyway, what’s a few more same sex marriages going to do? Clearly marriage is bigger than your religion.

    If you want to police what happens in your religion, sure, decide who your clergy can marry, but you’ve already lost control of marriage in a wider sense, so why stick your nose in one type of godless event and not another?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and
    reverse it
    You think that is something they should be
    proud of ?


    If they were of religious conviction that
    marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Don't you think your boy Jesus would have been more open minded?
    Jesus was a carpenter from Royal stock. Son of a god. He’d have an old warehouse in Hoxton turning out wooden penny farthings now and nobody would bat an eyelid at his intense relationship with a load of other beardy guys and a prostitue.

    He was the original hipster. Good old family, famous name, major contacts - even went on one of those desert breaks to find himself.

    Basically Viscount Linley crossed with Zowie Bowie/Duncan Jones

    If Jesus directed Source Code he's a
    genius.
    Moon really pisses me off. Probably very good, but why is there only one of him, not 3 to cover for illness? And something makes a sound in a vacuum in the opening 5 minutes. Probably a brilliant film but I can't watch it.
    It’s a good film at the right time but I never understood why they only sent one “clone”. If you can clone people then it’s surely more efficient to send a load of clones to do more work than just one and replace them all at same time.

    Many hands make light work apparently - or so they say at the last manual car wash I went to.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Moon is a good film.

    Source Code is a great film utterly, utterly ruined by the ending
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited August 2022
    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    Are you suggesting that the key criteria of a cult is how many people are followers? Christianity is safe there but a few other faiths might not qualify depending on where you set the line.
    My understanding of the definition of a cult is not based on numbers. I am a (lapsed) Roman Catholic, but I think you can refer to Christianity as a cult when using a pure definition. That said the word "cult" is normally used in a pejorative way, so I can understand HYUFD being offended. When most people think of cults they think of the Moonies, or Scientology.
    Evangelical religion should be treated as a mental illness.... heck, ALL religion should be. Talking to imaginary friends is something you are supposed to grow out of by primary school.
    Absolutely not, commitment to God and Christ as a guiding force for your life is vital and leads you to eternal life far greater than this one
    No it's not. There is no life greater than this one. This is all you get, so make the most of THIS life. The decisions you make are yours alone. No one is guiding you and no devil is misleading you. The responsibility for all that you do stops with you.
    You are Jean-Paul Sartre, and I claim my
    £5.
    Zut alors! Ma identite secrete n'est plus!!

    You are Officer Crabtree, and I claim my £5.

    Zot Aloors! My identy secret is goan!!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,913
    edited August 2022

    This week's Spectator TV includes Liz Truss's lead and John Curtice on leadership polls.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_QxXimRGLQ

    You'd have to be a dyed-in-the-wool Tory Leaver not to find that chat very ugly indeed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    BBC piss me off.

    Apparently loads of sport going on but both BBC1 and BBC3 just have talking heads and interviews with members of the public.

    Shut up. No-one cares. Cut to the sport.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited August 2022
    Is Braverman a hanger and flogger?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    nico679 said:

    Straight in at no 1 in my loathsome Tory list is the moron Braverman. Pushing Bozo into second place . And if she gets the Home Secretary job expect to hear her beating the drum for a return of the death penalty .

    Her sect actively campaigns against the death penalty in the US. No idea what her personal views are, but seems tough to reconcile.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    BBC piss me off.

    Apparently loads of sport going on but both BBC1 and BBC3 just have talking heads and interviews with members of the public.

    Shut up. No-one cares. Cut to the sport.

    Easy CR, sport’s all about the “feels” now, not the action.
  • How many times has "I'd be far more scared of dying if I believed in heaven and hell" been said on the whole internet?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited August 2022
    kyf_100 said:

    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    This help?

    https://twitter.com/AllegraStratton/status/1555230630790799362
    Many thanks!

    Though that appears to show Q4 2023 as under 6%.

    That graph almost appears to be designed to not be read with any detailed level of precision!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,154
    MikeL said:

    eek said:

    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    This help


    Thanks - though that graph shows energy only contributing 1% to inflation by 2023 Q4 (main line) yet FT says inflation still over 10% in 2023 Q4 - implying huge contribution from OTHER sources.
    Eh?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064
    Nigelb said:

    .

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    Likely distributed by the UK branch of the Gideons.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International

    As a registered charity, giving them away free, I think they’re unlikely to sue.
    Almost certainly it’s not theft in any event.

    HYUFD continues to have very odd ideas.
    Does the Bible remain the property of the Gideons, or is the Bible the property of the hotel (gifted to them by the Gideons)? This is going to matter in terms of who sues.

    Not that I can imagine any of them bothering.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    How many times has "I'd be far more scared of dying if I believed in heaven and hell" been said on the whole internet?

    1,086.
  • boulay said:

    How many times has "I'd be far more scared of dying if I believed in heaven and hell" been said on the whole internet?

    1,086.
    I don't think anyone has said it, but I think loads of people believe it
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    How many times has "I'd be far more scared of dying if I believed in heaven and hell" been said on the whole internet?

    As many times as Do not go gentle into that goodnight has been read at yoomanist funerals
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,064

    BBC piss me off.

    Apparently loads of sport going on but both BBC1 and BBC3 just have talking heads and interviews with members of the public.

    Shut up. No-one cares. Cut to the sport.

    iPlayer of the Red Button has numerous further channels, lots of full, unedited, live feeds: take your pick.

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    rcs1000 said:

    MikeL said:

    eek said:

    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    This help


    Thanks - though that graph shows energy only contributing 1% to inflation by 2023 Q4 (main line) yet FT says inflation still over 10% in 2023 Q4 - implying huge contribution from OTHER sources.
    Eh?
    That's what the graph shows!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    Well, yes.

    But the idea of an entirely linear city is rather interesting: it means you can have just a couple of rail tracks running at different speeds, and can reach any point on it, very quickly.

    Of course, it will probably be an enormous failure, but at least the Saudi government is spending their money on crazy vanity projects rather than funding Islamic terrorists.
    It will almost certainly be a complete failure.

    It would be far better if they converted the desert into a giant solar grid for the world rather than indulge in Blade Runner/Snowpiercer fantasies.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,784
    MikeL said:

    Is there a new inflation forecast graph anywhere?

    Can't find one. Is it because that only gets issued when BoE issues new Monetary Policy Report - which didn't happen today.

    Really struck by FT saying inflation over 10% until late 2023.

    That implies cumulative inflation of way over 20% for the two years to late 2023.

    There is a new MPR today, they are issued in Feb, May, Aug and Nov. Inflation is high until September 2023 because of the huge utility price increase in October this year, which will stay in the 12 month inflation rate until next September.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    TOPPING said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    I'm obviously not as well read on the scripture as you but where does it say in the scripture that gay marriage is not allowed.
    There is plenty in the Old Testament and Paul against homosexuality, even if Jesus doesn't mention it
    So as a Christian (Judeo Christian I believe you described yourself) are you against gay marriage?
    Not personally no but many Christians and indeed many Muslims and Jews too are and that also has to be respected
    So how can you be a Christian if you disagree with the Anglican church?
    I don't, the Archbishop made clear he would not punish Anglican ministers who conduct gay marriages.

    There is also a distinction between gay marriage in civil law which I now accept and in religious law which I am not as committed to, although you can still have a blessing
    You said gay marriage (and homosexuality) was against the scriptures and told me various parts of the bible where it was explicitly condemned.

    But as you are against gay marriage in religious law perhaps we are getting to your real thoughts on the matter.
    Personally I always favoured civil unions not marriage as the latter is a religious term but we are where we are
    So.

    You disagree with gay marriage which the Conservative Party is in favour of and the Church of England is against.

    You are compromising your beliefs somewhere. You either belong in one or the other. Or you have wholly malleable beliefs which change depending on what day of the week it is or who happens to have your attention.

    Plus don't get me started on the fact that you voted Remain.

    Enjoy the Elvis show. :smile:
    Actually most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, Cameron only got it through with Labour and LD votes.

    Even if they haven't bothered to try and
    reverse it
    You think that is something they should be
    proud of ?


    If they were of religious conviction that
    marriage is only between a man and woman for life, yes
    Don't you think your boy Jesus would have been more open minded?
    Jesus was a carpenter from Royal stock. Son of a god. He’d have an old warehouse in Hoxton turning out wooden penny farthings now and nobody would bat an eyelid at his intense relationship with a load of other beardy guys and a prostitue.

    He was the original hipster. Good old family, famous name, major contacts - even went on one of those desert breaks to find himself.

    Basically Viscount Linley crossed with Zowie Bowie/Duncan Jones

    If Jesus directed Source Code he's a genius.
    Moon really pisses me off. Probably very good, but why is there only one of him, not 3 to cover for illness? And something makes a sound in a vacuum in the opening 5 minutes. Probably a brilliant film but I can't watch it.
    I've not seen Moon.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,447

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    It was property belonging to another, the hotel, taken away. They are meant to be read on site
    In all seriousness, I am not sure that this is correct.
    It is, the Gideons may not be that bothered if you took it away to read but certainly would be if you binned it. The hotel could certainly seek to get you prosecuted for theft from its property
    There are worse fates for a Gideons Bible. When I was a first year at QMW, my halls was in a tower block in South Woodford. Midway through the year, a strange thing started happening in our tower: deposits would be left. Sometimes in the lift. Sometimes in the stairwell. Sometimes right in the entranceway. The unknown culprit became referred to as "The phantom shi**er of Old London Town."

    One night, he did a dump in the Gideons Bible in the communal area, and closed it hard, causing a spray of filth.

    He was apparently caught when a rugger player was with his GF, and the lift doors opened to reveal the culprit with his trousers and pants around his ankles, mid-dump.

    Some people are weird.
    I did apologise for that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,567
    boulay said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    I’ve never understood what’s so interesting about a particular dusty book written in the dusty olive groves several millennia ago. Plenty of more interesting books have been written since.

    As it is the book and the guide to Christian life and eternal life
    Perhaps you can help with a first world problem?

    Whenever I stay in a hotel with a bible in the bedside cabinet, I take it out in the evening and drop it in some roadside bin. I’d hang onto it, but nowadays I really don’t light enough fires to need so much spare paper.

    But am I doing the wrong thing? If the hotel simply buys more from whatever publishing house is churning out these things, am I actually fuelling the bible printing industry? Or perhaps the hotel won’t bother to check and the lucky subsequent occupants of my room will be spared the unwanted propaganda?
    Yes you are doing the wrong thing and you could be reported for theft
    Well, that’s a left field answer that I wasn’t expecting!

    I thought the idea was that some gullible dolt would actually take it away, and that the deluded ramblings of some first century shepherds, as recollected and carefully edited hundreds of years later, might convert them into an extra Christian?

    If the idea is to take it away, how can taking it away be theft?
    Serious answer is that there's a missionary charity that puts them there on the basis that people have nothing else to do in hotel rooms. But you are meant to leave them there for the next occupant. There's more about them here;

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gideons_International
    Before hotel wifi, the choice was usually between porn and the bible.

    I liked to alternate to keep things fresh.

    What about the rude bits in the bible?
    Thou shall not covet thy step-mom’s ass?
    You can do anything with your step-mom's ass.

    In Pornhub World.

    (Or so I'm told.

    By TSE.)
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,058
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    Are you suggesting that the key criteria of a cult is how many people are followers? Christianity is safe there but a few other faiths might not qualify depending on where you set the line.
    My understanding of the definition of a cult is not based on numbers. I am a (lapsed) Roman Catholic, but I think you can refer to Christianity as a cult when using a pure definition. That said the word "cult" is normally used in a pejorative way, so I can understand HYUFD being offended. When most people think of cults they think of the Moonies, or Scientology.
    Evangelical religion should be treated as a mental illness.... heck, ALL religion should be. Talking to imaginary friends is something you are supposed to grow out of by primary school.
    Absolutely not, commitment to God and Christ as a guiding force for your life is vital and leads you to eternal life far greater than this one
    No it's not. There is no life greater than this one. This is all you get, so make the most of THIS life. The decisions you make are yours alone. No one is guiding you and no devil is misleading you. The responsibility for all that you do stops with you.
    You are Jean-Paul Sartre, and I claim my £5.
    Don't you mean 50 Francs?
This discussion has been closed.