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Will the delay in voting impact on the outcome? – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    Well, yes.

    But the idea of an entirely linear city is rather interesting: it means you can have just a couple of rail tracks running at different speeds, and can reach any point on it, very quickly.

    Of course, it will probably be an enormous failure, but at least the Saudi government is spending their money on crazy vanity projects rather than funding Islamic terrorists.
    But all the travel from all of one half of the city to all of the other half of the city will have to go through the central point. That would require an insane throughput capacity, whereas, with a circular city you can have all sorts of point-to-point journeys that don't all have to go through the same pinch point.
    And how, exactly, are you planning on expanding your circular city?
    Up.
    It’s the only way.
    Is it?
    On transport: I've put some thought into this, and four tracks - two fast and two slow - would give a brilliant transport system.
    And everyone would have expansive, bucolic views without a view of anyone else.
    If you knocked down all the towns in the UK you could build about 20 North-South linear cities of 10-12 stories to accommodate the whole population. But once you start talking about more than one linear city the transport simplicity vanishes.
    How about a linear starfish-shaped city for radiating lines?

    At the centre would be focus point; you could call it a 'city'. Oh, I see the flaw in my idea.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    America’s greatest President. You don’t get many like that.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,575
    Life Helps Make Almost Half of All Minerals on Earth

    https://www.quantamagazine.org/life-helps-make-almost-half-of-all-minerals-20220701/
    The impact of Earth’s geology on life is easy to see, with organisms adapting to environments as different as deserts, mountains, forests and oceans. The full impact of life on geology, however, can be easy to miss.

    A comprehensive new survey of our planet’s minerals now corrects that omission. Among its findings is evidence that about half of all mineral diversity is the direct or indirect result of living things and their byproducts. It’s a discovery that could provide valuable insights to scientists piecing together Earth’s complex geological history — and also to those searching for evidence of life beyond this world.

    In a pair of papers published today in American Mineralogist, researchers Robert Hazen, Shaunna Morrison and their collaborators outline a new taxonomic system for classifying minerals, one that places importance on precisely how minerals form, not just how they look. In so doing, their system acknowledges how Earth’s geological development and the evolution of life influence each other.

    Their new taxonomy, based on an algorithmic analysis of thousands of scientific papers, recognizes more than 10,500 different types of minerals. That’s almost twice as many as the roughly 5,800 mineral “species” in the classic taxonomy of the International Mineralogical Association, which focuses strictly on a mineral’s crystalline structure and chemical makeup…
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The forecast of anaemic growth in 2025 is almost as bad, in some ways worse, than the forecast of a recession. Recessions happen in capitalist economies, but you expect growth to subsequently resume. Instead the BoE are forecasting growth of just 0.4% in the four quarters to 2025Q3, with unemployment still rising.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OMFFFFFFGGGGGG


    Has anyone else tried these pickles????


    https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/vadasz-garlic-dill-pickles/427621-707348-707349


    Superb! My local M&S does them. Astonishingly good

    They go perfectly in a Reuben sandwich
    I chucked some in a M&S pastrami deli sandwich. Jesus cockchafing Christ, It elevates a rather good sandwich into something SUBLIME
    They are delicious. The other Vadasz offerings (kimchi and sauerkraut) are top-notch too.
    Proper live sauerkraut it is too.

    The Kimchi is OK, but not a patch on the stuff a Korean friend brought me from a deli in Kingston.
    Fair enough, but not too many Kingston delis here in North Dorset.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    And, many years later, they came out with this minor banger:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmG0DqhfDbY
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    edited August 2022
    Nigelb said:

    Bitter and twisted, perhaps. But she’s not wrong.

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1555262641442095104
    Come the next Gen Election remember today - the day the Bank of England announced our country is the worst economic crisis in our lifetime & both the PM & Chancellor are on holiday
    Whoever leads the #Conservatives it is no longer fit for office.
    Time for change.

    Worst economic crisis of our lifetime????????????

    Does she not remember the near collapse of the banking system in 2008?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,263
    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    God mate I miss it too. I think a lot of it evaporated on 9/11

    The decline of the West began then, looking back, and it was led by America. First the decline was slow, then it was fast, like going bankrupt (as they say)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 15,545
    DavidL said:


    IshmaelZ said:

    Sunak beats Truss in a show of hands. Wow!

    The day the polls turned
    My MiL, 86 and gently dottled is convinced that Rishi won. She’s old Labour. Christian socialist really. Probably not the key audience.
    Your MIL is right!

    Sunak gives the impression of knowing what he should be talking about, even if he is not always saying it.

    Truss meanwhile is a complete fake, It's astonishing more people don't see through her.

    I can't hardly believe that she said we'll cut corporation tax in response to someone on £10 000 a year who will see their fuel bills rise by a couple of thousand. And, oh, "if there's any money left over I will see what I can do to help people with their fuel bills."

    She's either completely callous, or she hasn't given a moment's thought to the looming crisis facing the country.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,263
    Cookie said:

    A postscript to last night' self-indulgent ramblings: I had noticed on my way down the hill that my wallet wasn't in my pocket. I'd assumed I'd probably neglected to pick it up from the hotel, and various other domestic issues them took my attention, but eventually it became apparent that it wasn't in the hotel either. Grudgingly, this morning, I cancelled all my cards and grimly considered the other admin I would need to do, only to receive a phone call from my dentist asking whether I'd lost my wallet. Happily, someone - in all probability, given the startling emptiness of Dartmoor, the next person to pass it - had picked it up and looked through to find a means of getting in touch, and spotted an appointment card from my dentist and given them his number.
    Thirty minutes later, Ed the wild camper was safely down from the moor along with wife, dig and my wallet, and effecting a handover, before leaving with my profuse thanks and a couple of cans of beer I had in the car.
    Most people are basically very decent.

    A lovely and cheering story. Thankyou
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    dixiedean said:

    CatMan said:

    dixiedean said:


    Oh really?
    Can't imagine what for?

    Yes, I know! Unless OGH or one of his minions tells us, we can only speculate. I think there was a suspicion that she wasn't all she appeared to be, but that doesn't seem to be enough to be permanently banned to me.
    Well. She was persistently pro-Tory for a LD. But. If not being exactly what we appeared to be were a disqualification....
    We need more women on the site. Younger voices too. What became of @The_Apocalypse for example?
    Wasn't she was one of Leon's? I'm no statistician, but I'm pretty sure he's singlehandedly responsible for 70% of our female posters.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839
    Cookie said:

    A postscript to last night' self-indulgent ramblings: I had noticed on my way down the hill that my wallet wasn't in my pocket. I'd assumed I'd probably neglected to pick it up from the hotel, and various other domestic issues them took my attention, but eventually it became apparent that it wasn't in the hotel either. Grudgingly, this morning, I cancelled all my cards and grimly considered the other admin I would need to do, only to receive a phone call from my dentist asking whether I'd lost my wallet. Happily, someone - in all probability, given the startling emptiness of Dartmoor, the next person to pass it - had picked it up and looked through to find a means of getting in touch, and spotted an appointment card from my dentist and given them his number.
    Thirty minutes later, Ed the wild camper was safely down from the moor along with wife, dig and my wallet, and effecting a handover, before leaving with my profuse thanks and a couple of cans of beer I had in the car.
    Most people are basically very decent.

    Great story. Thanks for sharing. Most folk are kind. And will go a little out of their way to help.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Indeed. The fact that the mere mention has everyone hearing the chorus. Not a soul going what? Who? (Unless you're very very young).
    That's the sign of great pop music.
    I am about 97 and I had never heard of it. It's fantastic

    4:27 though not 3 minutes as claimed. If you want short, the letter by the box tops is 1:50.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,281
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    God mate I miss it too. I think a lot of it evaporated on 9/11

    The decline of the West began then, looking back, and it was led by America. First the decline was slow, then it was fast, like going bankrupt (as they say)
    Pah! The West was in terminal decline in the early 70s. It got over it then and it will now.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184

    Cookie said:

    DavidL said:

    biggles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    Well, yes.

    But the idea of an entirely linear city is rather interesting: it means you can have just a couple of rail tracks running at different speeds, and can reach any point on it, very quickly.

    Of course, it will probably be an enormous failure, but at least the Saudi government is spending their money on crazy vanity projects rather than funding Islamic terrorists.
    But all the travel from all of one half of the city to all of the other half of the city will have to go through the central point. That would require an insane throughput capacity, whereas, with a circular city you can have all sorts of point-to-point journeys that don't all have to go through the same pinch point.
    And how, exactly, are you planning on expanding your circular city?
    Up.
    It’s the only way.
    Is it?
    On transport: I've put some thought into this, and four tracks - two fast and two slow - would give a brilliant transport system.
    And everyone would have expansive, bucolic views without a view of anyone else.
    If you knocked down all the towns in the UK you could build about 20 North-South linear cities of 10-12 stories to accommodate the whole population. But once you start talking about more than one linear city the transport simplicity vanishes.
    How about a linear starfish-shaped city for radiating lines?

    At the centre would be focus point; you could call it a 'city'. Oh, I see the flaw in my idea.
    The problem with the city model - purely from a transport perspective - is that your transit ends up ferrying a lot of empty air out in the morning peak and inward in the evening peak.
    The ideal - from a transport perspective - is to have two foci, with a line (or lines) between them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,263

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OMFFFFFFGGGGGG


    Has anyone else tried these pickles????


    https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/vadasz-garlic-dill-pickles/427621-707348-707349


    Superb! My local M&S does them. Astonishingly good

    They go perfectly in a Reuben sandwich
    I chucked some in a M&S pastrami deli sandwich. Jesus cockchafing Christ, It elevates a rather good sandwich into something SUBLIME
    They are delicious. The other Vadasz offerings (kimchi and sauerkraut) are top-notch too.
    Cool! I wondered if I was imagining how good they are. I will now go and buy these others. Mmmmmmm.... bop
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    They don't even need to do that.
    They just need to appoint people who can do that for them and let them do it.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,841
    edited August 2022
    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    We need a route through. I think the idea of regular economic briefings a la covid is good snd i think the media needs to allow things like advice on own brand shopping etc to be given without portraying it is 'is that it?'. There are millions of people who genuinely havent got a scooby on hard times household budgeting, they need to identify what we will be doing about food, energy and petrol/travel and give regular updates and set out the governments view on pay settlements and where they would get involved. And people need to realise they probably cant have nice new stuff for a bit.

    However we will get hysteria, histrionics, bloviating nonsense and political point scoring
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    IshmaelZ said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Indeed. The fact that the mere mention has everyone hearing the chorus. Not a soul going what? Who? (Unless you're very very young).
    That's the sign of great pop music.
    I am about 97 and I had never heard of it. It's fantastic

    4:27 though not 3 minutes as claimed. If you want short, the letter by the box tops is 1:50.
    Sorry to be the contrarian, but I've always found the song shite. Won't deny it's catchy, but then so's herpes.

    I'm very much a fan of the genre of lighthearted American pop/rock, but I draw the line at Hanson. Two Princes by Spin Doctors is a similar but much more satisfying song.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    Fishing said:

    Dick Cheney speaks out against Trump:

    “In our nation’s 246 year history there has never been an individual who is a greater threat to our Republic than Donald Trump.” Dick Cheney

    https://twitter.com/Liz_Cheney/status/1555270027871338496

    Oh come on.

    I'm no fan of Trump, but what about George III, Jefferson Davis, Hitler, Stalin or Krushchev?
    Hmmm…

    George III - curiously ambivalent about the whole thing. Almost friendly, give or take a Tarelton or 2
    Jefferson Davis - born to lose, it took 5 years because the Union tried very hard not to win.
    Hitler - never came close to visiting
    Stalin - ditto
    Krushchev - banging a shoe on the table doesn't do much
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,263
    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Indeed. The fact that the mere mention has everyone hearing the chorus. Not a soul going what? Who? (Unless you're very very young).
    That's the sign of great pop music.
    It is impossible to listen to Mmmbop without feeling slightly better about life, and also kinda dancing - at least a tiny bit. That is the mark of great art. And I am entirely serious
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,397
    Here is an unpleasant truth: The US and the UK have suffered large losses from COVID, and now from Putin's war on Ukraine. We can pay for them in various ways, inflation, passing them on to children and grandchildren, and so on, but we can not magically wish them away.

    We can -- and in the US are -- fighting over how to distribute those losses, but we are spending less time than we ought thinking about how we can recover from them. (And, possibly, how we can avoid, or at least reduce, similar losses in the future.)

    Now I absolutely understand why politicians, at least those who hope to win their next elections, would prefer to avoid speaking frankly about those losses -- but we shouldn't let them get away with that evasion.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    dixiedean said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    They don't even need to do that.
    They just need to appoint people who can do that for them and let them do it.
    Well, I would settle for that. Surely there has to be a better way of doing a reality check than this BoE announcement today, which feels like the sort of announcement you would put out if you deliberately wanted to destroy whatever confidence is left out there.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056
    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    Nigelb said:

    Bitter and twisted, perhaps. But she’s not wrong.

    https://twitter.com/Anna_Soubry/status/1555262641442095104
    Come the next Gen Election remember today - the day the Bank of England announced our country is the worst economic crisis in our lifetime & both the PM & Chancellor are on holiday
    Whoever leads the #Conservatives it is no longer fit for office.
    Time for change.

    Worst economic crisis of our lifetime????????????

    Does she not remember the near collapse of the banking system in 2008?
    Yes but she can’t blame that on Brexit so it doesn’t count.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The forecast of anaemic growth in 2025 is almost as bad, in some ways worse, than the forecast of a recession. Recessions happen in capitalist economies, but you expect growth to subsequently resume. Instead the BoE are forecasting growth of just 0.4% in the four quarters to 2025Q3, with unemployment still rising.
    The most distressing thing about that is they won’t take bets on their forecasts. Total crap.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Jonathan said:

    dixiedean said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    They don't even need to do that.
    They just need to appoint people who can do that for them and let them do it.
    Well, I would settle for that. Surely there has to be a better way of doing a reality check than this BoE announcement today, which feels like the sort of announcement you would put out if you deliberately wanted to destroy whatever confidence is left out there.
    Yes. Pretty reprhensible - and who's head will roll when the predictions inveitably turn out to be worth less than the money the BOE is so fond of printing?
  • Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    It's a tricky balance.

    Life is going to be rubbish for a while- partly because of immediate circumstances, mostly because of bad self-indulgent choices the UK has made going back decades. But taking on more pain now will lead to more gain in the future.

    That's better than continuing to eat the seedcorn, but it's also a tough sell. As someone said after 2008, we know what needs to be done, but not how to get re-elected after doing it.

    Frankly, the best thing for the country is that the Conservatives lose to a reluctant Coalition of not-chaos, and go so bonkers (Badenoch?) that the next government know that they have two terms to fix on a different course.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,069

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    OMFFFFFFGGGGGG


    Has anyone else tried these pickles????


    https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/vadasz-garlic-dill-pickles/427621-707348-707349


    Superb! My local M&S does them. Astonishingly good

    They go perfectly in a Reuben sandwich
    I chucked some in a M&S pastrami deli sandwich. Jesus cockchafing Christ, It elevates a rather good sandwich into something SUBLIME
    They are delicious. The other Vadasz offerings (kimchi and sauerkraut) are top-notch too.
    Proper live sauerkraut it is too.

    The Kimchi is OK, but not a patch on the stuff a Korean friend brought me from a deli in Kingston.
    Fair enough, but not too many Kingston delis here in North Dorset.
    Nor Leicester!

    I just asked her for some good Kimchi in order to taste why people get so fanatical about it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839
    Leon said:

    dixiedean said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Indeed. The fact that the mere mention has everyone hearing the chorus. Not a soul going what? Who? (Unless you're very very young).
    That's the sign of great pop music.
    It is impossible to listen to Mmmbop without feeling slightly better about life, and also kinda dancing - at least a tiny bit. That is the mark of great art. And I am entirely serious
    Barbie Girl. Like a Virgin. Dancing Queen. Can't Get You Out of my Head.
    Serious dearth of those earworms lately. Or am I just getting very old? Probably.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Love it. Never realised there was 2 x guitars in there till seeing that though
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,263
    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    It's a tricky balance.

    Life is going to be rubbish for a while- partly because of immediate circumstances, mostly because of bad self-indulgent choices the UK has made going back decades. But taking on more pain now will lead to more gain in the future.

    That's better than continuing to eat the seedcorn, but it's also a tough sell. As someone said after 2008, we know what needs to be done, but not how to get re-elected after doing it.

    Frankly, the best thing for the country is that the Conservatives lose to a reluctant Coalition of not-chaos, and go so bonkers (Badenoch?) that the next government know that they have two terms to fix on a different course.
    That's what happened in 2010. Unfortunately, Labour happened upon a leader who managed to walk the tightrope of breaking with the past, unifying the Party, and not being completely electorally disastrous, yet not quite winning.
    That happened next. Which gave the Tories a free pass to rule quite sensibly for a while then go completely bonkers with no comeback.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,285
    Had a lovely day at Chatsworth today. Perfect weather. The fountain only operating for a couple of hours a day though.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    biggles said:

    Leon said:

    Just had loooong afternoon drinks with a friend at Gordon's Wine Bar

    Walked back through central London

    Is this Bank England economic prediction for real? Really? It is extremely hard to reconcile these predictions of impending horror with the sense of a world city en fete, full of tourists, all spending money in the warm evening air. I'm not sure I have ever seen London so chocka and contented, and I am used to London. Perhaps you have to leave home for several months to get a perspective

    Or is this Paris in 1940? Perhaps it is

    Never eat from the Cheese Board in Gordon’s. Assuming they still have it post Covid. If you sit there long enough you can see the mice tuck in.
    lol, no, don't worry

    I've been there enough times to sense the lack of hygiene. Isn't it 18th century or something? Nice outdoors on a warm summer's day, however

    What struck me as it struck me a few weeks ago was the huge queue to get a table. Queues! From about 4pm on

    London is thriving at the mo. Which is why I struggle to believe we will all soon be in an apocalyptic recession. But perhaps it is so

    On Parkway in Camden I believe the last businesses premises vacated by the pandemic have now been filled

    London will cope best with the recession because it has a resilient economy based around on Remainer oriented financial and cultural business. It is the wild lands of Leaverstan that will be knawing on their last frozen turnip in the frost.
    Frozen turnips you say?

    Where is @malcolmg when one needs a professional opinion?
    Come to think of it, where is he? A quick check shows it has been a full month since he posted. Is he all right?
    Good question?

    And have we heard of late from @Big_G_NorthWales ??
    Yeah big G is good except covided
    United we stand, covided we fall?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,625
    DavidL said:

    Omnium said:

    Complete comedy from the BoE.

    Their actions don't even make sense given their delusions.

    It's not so hard though. Inflation will decline around the end of the year, and there (probably) won't be a recession.

    The stupid nonsense that is their interest rate policy isn't even worth a comment.

    I think it will be next year before inflation peaks. I do think that we will have a recession but probably a mild one, certainly nowhere near as bad as they are forecasting and interest rates are way too low and have been for at least 2 years.

    To misquote Ronald Reagan a recession is when your neighbour loses their job, a depression is when you lose yours and a recovery is when Bailey loses his.
    It will be interesting to see what happens as the inflation drivers unwind. Oil and gas head south as more and more capacity comes online. Xi gets told to stop with the Zero COVID by his *friends* - China gets back to work…..
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839
    edited August 2022
    Bohemian Like You by the Dandy Warhols.
    One track. One Vodafone advert.
    Priceless. Sorted for life.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    DavidL said:

    Omnium said:

    Complete comedy from the BoE.

    Their actions don't even make sense given their delusions.

    It's not so hard though. Inflation will decline around the end of the year, and there (probably) won't be a recession.

    The stupid nonsense that is their interest rate policy isn't even worth a comment.

    I think it will be next year before inflation peaks. I do think that we will have a recession but probably a mild one, certainly nowhere near as bad as they are forecasting and interest rates are way too low and have been for at least 2 years.

    To misquote Ronald Reagan a recession is when your neighbour loses their job, a depression is when you lose yours and a recovery is when Bailey loses his.
    It will be interesting to see what happens as the inflation drivers unwind. Oil and gas head south as more and more capacity comes online. Xi gets told to stop with the Zero COVID by his *friends* - China gets back to work…..
    Yes it’s not going to be fun as I have been saying all year but the BoE forecast today is a joke, and not a very funny one either. Edinburgh fringe standard.

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,749
    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    New Rose by The Damned, almost coincidental that it's also the perfect punk single. Under 3 minutes too.

    https://youtu.be/TUxFQ5QBiYk
  • dixiedean said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    It's a tricky balance.

    Life is going to be rubbish for a while- partly because of immediate circumstances, mostly because of bad self-indulgent choices the UK has made going back decades. But taking on more pain now will lead to more gain in the future.

    That's better than continuing to eat the seedcorn, but it's also a tough sell. As someone said after 2008, we know what needs to be done, but not how to get re-elected after doing it.

    Frankly, the best thing for the country is that the Conservatives lose to a reluctant Coalition of not-chaos, and go so bonkers (Badenoch?) that the next government know that they have two terms to fix on a different course.
    That's what happened in 2010. Unfortunately, Labour happened upon a leader who managed to walk the tightrope of breaking with the past, unifying the Party, and not being completely electorally disastrous, yet not quite winning.
    That happened next. Which gave the Tories a free pass to rule quite sensibly for a while then go completely bonkers with no comeback.
    Ooh- there's an althistory for someone to write;

    SCENE: Somewhere in CCHQ in about 2013.

    "Hey boss, we could get a majority by screwing over the Lib Dems."

    "We could, but then we'd be at the mercy of Steve Baker. That really doesn't help. We don't want a coupon election, but we kind of want that to be the outcome..."
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022
    Is there any other country in the world where it's up to members of a political party to pick the leader of the government if the sitting one leaves mid-term?

    China, France, Germany, India, Russia, USA - nope.

    The nearest I can find is Japan, where LDP members account for half the votes if it's an LDP PM being replaced.

    As for delaying the vote for security reasons, that wouldn't have happened if it was the state ensuring the integrity of the process in the first place rather than goodness knows who. Imagine if something serious were to happen while this farce is going on...
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    We need a route through. I think the idea of regular economic briefings a la covid is good snd i think the media needs to allow things like advice on own brand shopping etc to be given without portraying it is 'is that it?'. There are millions of people who genuinely havent got a scooby on hard times household budgeting, they need to identify what we will be doing about food, energy and petrol/travel and give regular updates and set out the governments view on pay settlements and where they would get involved. And people need to realise they probably cant have nice new stuff for a bit.

    However we will get hysteria, histrionics, bloviating nonsense and political point scoring
    A bit off topic, but not entirely.
    I was talking to a colleague. She was telling me that all her friends and family are setting up childrens homes, and she was thinking of doing the same herself.
    When I went to look in to this, it seems that it is quite easy to set up a childrens home.
    You need a building, which needs to up to spec, and ofsted approval. But none of that is insurmountably difficult.
    You then get something like £4000, per child per week. This figure is so high, because there is a shortage of childrens homes, so that is the going rate, despite futile complaints from the government.
    You need to employ some carers and key workers, but they are something like £20-30k per year.
    Not too difficult to see the opportunity for massive profit here! And demand is going up.
    So from what I could work out, it seems that these kids that go in to care, they are costing the state £200k per year.
  • SEATTLE SUFFERS SEVERE SUPERIOR SPUD SHORTAGE

    Seattle Times ($) Dick’s Drive-In switches up its fries amid WA potato shortage

    If you get a mushy fry the next time you visit Dick’s Drive-In, don’t blame the cooks: blame the Washington potato shortage.

    A delayed harvest and fewer seedlings planted means Washington’s famously fry-able potatoes are in short supply this year. Fries made from any other spuds just aren’t the same.

    “We are at the very end of the season on our Washington potatoes and they are not producing fries up to our standards,” the Seattle-based restaurant announced on its website and Facebook page earlier this week. The restaurant said if a customer finds a fry that “isn’t satisfying,” bring it back to the window for a replacement.

    What makes a Washington potato special? It’s more than just state pride — it’s science.

    Potatoes from Washington are drier than other spuds, which means they fry to a crisp on outside with a nice fluffy texture inside. They also typically have fewer internal blemishes.

    “We grow generally higher quality potatoes in Washington than come from Idaho,” said Tim Waters, a regional vegetable specialist at Washington State University. “They fry more consistently, and they’re a nicer looking product generally.”

    Typically, potato growers plant the crop in late February and early March, then harvest from around the Fourth of July through the fall months. The potatoes from the early harvest get shipped out right away to restaurants, while the crop harvested later in the season goes into storage. Those storage potatoes can usually satisfy demand until the next season.

    This year, the harvest was about two and a half weeks late because of unseasonably cold and rainy spring weather. Washington growers also planted fewer plants this year after the potato wart disease was detected on Canada’s “spud island,” one of Washington’s biggest seed suppliers.

    Washington not only produces high quality potatoes but large quantities of them, Waters said. The state grows 20% of the country’s potatoes, according to the Washington State Potato Commission, and growers here harvest twice as many tons of potatoes per acre than the average U.S. producer.

    As the Dick’s Drive-In post reminds customers, “New potatoes are coming out of the ground as you read this!”

    Waters confirmed the harvest is underway statewide, but it will take a week or two for suppliers to get the spuds out of the ground, washed, packaged and delivered to their final destinations.

    “It’s good to eat local, right?” Waters said. “That’s the other part of it — some pride in our state and what we produce.”
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Dynamo said:

    Is there any other country in the world where it's up to members of a political party to pick the leader of the government if the sitting one leaves mid-term?

    China, France, Germany, India, Russia, USA - nope.

    The nearest I can find is Japan, where LDP members account for half the votes if it's an LDP PM being replaced.

    As for delaying the vote for security reasons, that wouldn't have happened if it was the state ensuring the integrity of the process in the first place rather than goodness knows who. Imagine if something serious were to happen while this farce is going on...

    Australia, they do it all the time. It’s called Parliamentary democracy. Brilliant stuff.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839
    I see the PRC has lobbed some missiles into Japanese waters.
    Okinawa is surprisingly close to Taipei.
    But you would think Big China would know.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    darkage said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    We need a route through. I think the idea of regular economic briefings a la covid is good snd i think the media needs to allow things like advice on own brand shopping etc to be given without portraying it is 'is that it?'. There are millions of people who genuinely havent got a scooby on hard times household budgeting, they need to identify what we will be doing about food, energy and petrol/travel and give regular updates and set out the governments view on pay settlements and where they would get involved. And people need to realise they probably cant have nice new stuff for a bit.

    However we will get hysteria, histrionics, bloviating nonsense and political point scoring
    A bit off topic, but not entirely.
    I was talking to a colleague. She was telling me that all her friends and family are setting up childrens homes, and she was thinking of doing the same herself.
    When I went to look in to this, it seems that it is quite easy to set up a childrens home.
    You need a building, which needs to up to spec, and ofsted approval. But none of that is insurmountably difficult.
    You then get something like £4000, per child per week. This figure is so high, because there is a shortage of childrens homes, so that is the going rate, despite futile complaints from the government.
    You need to employ some carers and key workers, but they are something like £20-30k per year.
    Not too difficult to see the opportunity for massive profit here! And demand is going
    up.
    So from what I could work out, it seems that these kids that go in to care, they are costing the state £200k per year.
    Cheaper to send them to Eton in my experience.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,168
    Jonathan said:

    Dynamo said:

    Is there any other country in the world where it's up to members of a political party to pick the leader of the government if the sitting one leaves mid-term?

    China, France, Germany, India, Russia, USA - nope.

    The nearest I can find is Japan, where LDP members account for half the votes if it's an LDP PM being replaced.

    As for delaying the vote for security reasons, that wouldn't have happened if it was the state ensuring the integrity of the process in the first place rather than goodness knows who. Imagine if something serious were to happen while this farce is going on...

    Australia, they do it all the time. It’s called Parliamentary democracy. Brilliant stuff.
    Canada too?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    In terms of the economy, I don't think that the property industry will ride out build cost inflation, which is still going on, and interest rate rises. This could have massive knock on effects.

    I've read a few comments by developers I highly respect in London. They are saying that a lot of contractors are effectively bust due to the escalating costs of materials; and that they see the only solution in property prices doubling; which it is difficult to believe will happen.

    I think there is a big risk that new development just grinds to a halt at some point in the near future.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited August 2022

    Here is an unpleasant truth: The US and the UK have suffered large losses from COVID, and now from Putin's war on Ukraine. We can pay for them in various ways, inflation, passing them on to children and grandchildren, and so on, but we can not magically wish them away.

    Putin must have an even greater agency in Britain than I thought if he's responsible for the British government spending so much money helping the Ukrainian war effort. You reckon magic is all we can rely on to stop this expenditure, given that we won't get a chance to vote on it?
  • DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    We need a route through. I think the idea of regular economic briefings a la covid is good snd i think the media needs to allow things like advice on own brand shopping etc to be given without portraying it is 'is that it?'. There are millions of people who genuinely havent got a scooby on hard times household budgeting, they need to identify what we will be doing about food, energy and petrol/travel and give regular updates and set out the governments view on pay settlements and where they would get involved. And people need to realise they probably cant have nice new stuff for a bit.

    However we will get hysteria, histrionics, bloviating nonsense and political point scoring
    A bit off topic, but not entirely.
    I was talking to a colleague. She was telling me that all her friends and family are setting up childrens homes, and she was thinking of doing the same herself.
    When I went to look in to this, it seems that it is quite easy to set up a childrens home.
    You need a building, which needs to up to spec, and ofsted approval. But none of that is insurmountably difficult.
    You then get something like £4000, per child per week. This figure is so high, because there is a shortage of childrens homes, so that is the going rate, despite futile complaints from the government.
    You need to employ some carers and key workers, but they are something like £20-30k per year.
    Not too difficult to see the opportunity for massive profit here! And demand is going
    up.
    So from what I could work out, it seems that these kids that go in to care, they are costing the state £200k per year.
    Cheaper to send them to Eton in my experience.
    Yes, but have you seen how they turn out?

    (Thinking about it, I'm not sure I know any OEs. I know some Wykehamists, and they were lovely.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712

    Jonathan said:

    Dynamo said:

    Is there any other country in the world where it's up to members of a political party to pick the leader of the government if the sitting one leaves mid-term?

    China, France, Germany, India, Russia, USA - nope.

    The nearest I can find is Japan, where LDP members account for half the votes if it's an LDP PM being replaced.

    As for delaying the vote for security reasons, that wouldn't have happened if it was the state ensuring the integrity of the process in the first place rather than goodness knows who. Imagine if something serious were to happen while this farce is going on...

    Australia, they do it all the time. It’s called Parliamentary democracy. Brilliant stuff.
    Canada too?
    Plus Germany if the Chancellor left midterm and Israel and Italy
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839

    dixiedean said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    It's a tricky balance.

    Life is going to be rubbish for a while- partly because of immediate circumstances, mostly because of bad self-indulgent choices the UK has made going back decades. But taking on more pain now will lead to more gain in the future.

    That's better than continuing to eat the seedcorn, but it's also a tough sell. As someone said after 2008, we know what needs to be done, but not how to get re-elected after doing it.

    Frankly, the best thing for the country is that the Conservatives lose to a reluctant Coalition of not-chaos, and go so bonkers (Badenoch?) that the next government know that they have two terms to fix on a different course.
    That's what happened in 2010. Unfortunately, Labour happened upon a leader who managed to walk the tightrope of breaking with the past, unifying the Party, and not being completely electorally disastrous, yet not quite winning.
    That happened next. Which gave the Tories a free pass to rule quite sensibly for a while then go completely bonkers with no comeback.
    Ooh- there's an althistory for someone to write;

    SCENE: Somewhere in CCHQ in about 2013.

    "Hey boss, we could get a majority by screwing over the Lib Dems."

    "We could, but then we'd be at the mercy of Steve Baker. That really doesn't help. We don't want a coupon election, but we kind of want that to be the outcome..."
    Yeah. Our number one priority is to keep EdM in post to have another go. Or else they'll elect a Socialist.
    Then we are out of Europe and our socially liberal, sound finance wing is out of the Party.
    Remember. You're only meant to blow the bloody doors off.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    We need a route through. I think the idea of regular economic briefings a la covid is good snd i think the media needs to allow things like advice on own brand shopping etc to be given without portraying it is 'is that it?'. There are millions of people who genuinely havent got a scooby on hard times household budgeting, they need to identify what we will be doing about food, energy and petrol/travel and give regular updates and set out the governments view on pay settlements and where they would get involved. And people need to realise they probably cant have nice new stuff for a bit.

    However we will get hysteria, histrionics, bloviating nonsense and political point scoring
    A bit off topic, but not entirely.
    I was talking to a colleague. She was telling me that all her friends and family are setting up childrens homes, and she was thinking of doing the same herself.
    When I went to look in to this, it seems that it is quite easy to set up a childrens home.
    You need a building, which needs to up to spec, and ofsted approval. But none of that is insurmountably difficult.
    You then get something like £4000, per child per week. This figure is so high, because there is a shortage of childrens homes, so that is the going rate, despite futile complaints from the government.
    You need to employ some carers and key workers, but they are something like £20-30k per year.
    Not too difficult to see the opportunity for massive profit here! And demand is going
    up.
    So from what I could work out, it seems that these kids that go in to care, they are costing the state £200k per year.
    Cheaper to send them to Eton in my experience.
    "She was telling me that all her friends and family are setting up childrens homes,"

    Seriously?

    How many friends and family does she have? 30 people perhaps?

    So thirty people who are closely linked are all setting up children's homes?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,056
    darkage said:

    In terms of the economy, I don't think that the property industry will ride out build cost inflation, which is still going on, and interest rate rises. This could have massive knock on effects.

    I've read a few comments by developers I highly respect in London. They are saying that a lot of contractors are effectively bust due to the escalating costs of materials; and that they see the only solution in property prices doubling; which it is difficult to believe will happen.

    I think there is a big risk that new development just grinds to a halt at some point in the near future.

    Or the price of land will have to fall.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    DavidL said:

    darkage said:

    Jonathan said:

    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" policy. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    We need a political leader who does optimism, but instead of marrying that with bullshit promises and lies can do the hard work and thinking required to deliver it. An FDR.
    We need a route through. I think the idea of regular economic briefings a la covid is good snd i think the media needs to allow things like advice on own brand shopping etc to be given without portraying it is 'is that it?'. There are millions of people who genuinely havent got a scooby on hard times household budgeting, they need to identify what we will be doing about food, energy and petrol/travel and give regular updates and set out the governments view on pay settlements and where they would get involved. And people need to realise they probably cant have nice new stuff for a bit.

    However we will get hysteria, histrionics, bloviating nonsense and political point scoring
    A bit off topic, but not entirely.
    I was talking to a colleague. She was telling me that all her friends and family are setting up childrens homes, and she was thinking of doing the same herself.
    When I went to look in to this, it seems that it is quite easy to set up a childrens home.
    You need a building, which needs to up to spec, and ofsted approval. But none of that is insurmountably difficult.
    You then get something like £4000, per child per week. This figure is so high, because there is a shortage of childrens homes, so that is the going rate, despite futile complaints from the government.
    You need to employ some carers and key workers, but they are something like £20-30k per year.
    Not too difficult to see the opportunity for massive profit here! And demand is going
    up.
    So from what I could work out, it seems that these kids that go in to care, they are costing the state £200k per year.
    Cheaper to send them to Eton in my experience.
    I was thinking the same thing. You could send them to be boarders at independent schools for about 30k per year. In all seriousness.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,263

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/04/sandi-toksvig-lives-at-stake-anti-gay-anglican-church-declaration-justin-welby

    Sandi Toksvig:

    “I have had several credible death threats over the years, sometimes requiring the very kind assistance of the police hate crime squad.

    “Each and every one of those threats has come from an evangelical Christian. Inevitably they have wanted to kill me on God’s behalf.”

    And if this gets death threats over here, imagine what it will do in Nigeria.

    Odd stance for a cult based around an overtly homosexual shaman to take.

    Some cult which has 2.8 billion members
    The Christian cult which believes in physically attacking gay people does not have 2.8 billion members.
    He was referring to the whole religion
    I was. Most Anglicans are in Africa thought and the vast majority of African Anglicans are homophobic.
    You should try African Muslims, Catholics and evangelicals who make up the majority of the continent
    Yes, but the edicts of the popes and mullahs are nothing to do with me whereas as an Englishman I have a degree of deeply unwanted vicarious responsibility for the imbecilic maunderings of that drooling arsewipe Welby, who has pretty much guaranteed lynchings and murderings which would not otherwise take place.
    What a load of rubbish, he has said he will not take action against priests who conduct gay weddings, even if the Anglican church overall sticks to the scriptural line held by the majority of the Anglican communion.

    Indeed it is not a million miles away from the compromise over women priests, where churches do not have to have them if they don't wish
    But it is the law of the land, as signed off by the Head of the Church, that same-sex marriages can occur. So why is the Established Church in England allowing its priests to ignore the law of the land? What's the point of Erastianism if you aren't going to do it properly?
    Yes but civil law is distinct from theological law. In time I expect the church of England will allow priests to conduct gay marriages or not based on individual conscience as some parts of the Anglican Communion already do but we are not there yet
    But Church and State are not distinct and separate in the English polity. "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" does not mean putting Caesar in charge of the things that are God's.

    You are saying one thing on one hand and something quite different on another hand. Christ had a word for this. Hypocrisy.
    Being Supreme Governor of the Church does not mean setting the doctrine for the Church, that is up to the Archbishop of Canterbury guided by God
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Ratters said:

    While we're on the topic of religion, the aspect that irritates me most in this country is the fact that publicly funded schools are still allowed to discriminate admissions based on a child's parents' religious beliefs (or their willingness to feign belief). I mean state schools teaching one religion is correct is objectionable enough, but the admissions criteria (or having a large number of places selected in this way) is just plain wrong.

    My wife and I have chosen to dodge this by favouring areas with high quality quality non-religious state schools, but it's surprising how much that rules out.

    Absolutely not, our religious schools are amongst the best in the country, we need more of them
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 6,770

    Has @Leon fainted?

    Burley: "What's the naughtiest thing you've ever done?"

    Truss: "Well, I'm not going to say that on TV!"

    Burley: "Why not?"

    Truss: "Well, um, my daughters are watching.. I wouldn't want them to get any ideas."

    That’s a very humanising response

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,773

    Here is an unpleasant truth: The US and the UK have suffered large losses from COVID, and now from Putin's war on Ukraine. We can pay for them in various ways, inflation, passing them on to children and grandchildren, and so on, but we can not magically wish them away.

    We can -- and in the US are -- fighting over how to distribute those losses, but we are spending less time than we ought thinking about how we can recover from them. (And, possibly, how we can avoid, or at least reduce, similar losses in the future.)

    Now I absolutely understand why politicians, at least those who hope to win their next elections, would prefer to avoid speaking frankly about those losses -- but we shouldn't let them get away with that evasion.

    Excellent comment...

    But I would note that politicians of the recent past - like Thatcher and Mitterrand, and even Cameron - ran on platforms that emphasized that things would be difficult

    The problem is that
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    edited August 2022
    Seems Sunak won 85% of undecided Tory members after tonight's Sky debate

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1555297635858321409?s=20&t=EAu-hgkDa2ATS-5kAXm97Q
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    carnforth said:

    darkage said:

    In terms of the economy, I don't think that the property industry will ride out build cost inflation, which is still going on, and interest rate rises. This could have massive knock on effects.

    I've read a few comments by developers I highly respect in London. They are saying that a lot of contractors are effectively bust due to the escalating costs of materials; and that they see the only solution in property prices doubling; which it is difficult to believe will happen.

    I think there is a big risk that new development just grinds to a halt at some point in the near future.

    Or the price of land will have to fall.
    But owners have to be incentivised to sell. And no one will sell below existing use value. Thus leading to the scenario I described.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Elvis was good, excellent performance by Austin Butler in the title role. If a bit of a hatchet job on Colonel Parker
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    New Rose by The Damned, almost coincidental that it's also the perfect punk single. Under 3 minutes too.

    https://youtu.be/TUxFQ5QBiYk
    Isn't consider the very first punk single?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    HYUFD said:

    Seems Sunak won 85% of undecided Tory members after tonight's Sky debate

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1555297635858321409?s=20&t=EAu-hgkDa2ATS-5kAXm97Q

    Down at 8.4.

    Lowest for a while.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043

    Has @Leon fainted?

    Burley: "What's the naughtiest thing you've ever done?"

    Truss: "Well, I'm not going to say that on TV!"

    Burley: "Why not?"

    Truss: "Well, um, my daughters are watching.. I wouldn't want them to get any ideas."

    That’s a very humanising response

    I think we can take it as it was a tad more than running through a wheat field with a stick.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,839
    I'm drunk.
    You really don't want me to get started on children in care
    It's so depressing I'm going back into teaching.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772

    Has @Leon fainted?

    Burley: "What's the naughtiest thing you've ever done?"

    Truss: "Well, I'm not going to say that on TV!"

    Burley: "Why not?"

    Truss: "Well, um, my daughters are watching.. I wouldn't want them to get any ideas."

    That’s a very humanising response

    I think we can take it as it was a tad more than running through a wheat field with a stick.

    Please don’t set off @Leon again.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    rcs1000 said:

    Here is an unpleasant truth: The US and the UK have suffered large losses from COVID, and now from Putin's war on Ukraine. We can pay for them in various ways, inflation, passing them on to children and grandchildren, and so on, but we can not magically wish them away.

    We can -- and in the US are -- fighting over how to distribute those losses, but we are spending less time than we ought thinking about how we can recover from them. (And, possibly, how we can avoid, or at least reduce, similar losses in the future.)

    Now I absolutely understand why politicians, at least those who hope to win their next elections, would prefer to avoid speaking frankly about those losses -- but we shouldn't let them get away with that evasion.

    Excellent comment...

    But I would note that politicians of the recent past - like Thatcher and Mitterrand, and even Cameron - ran on platforms that emphasized that things would be difficult

    The problem is that
    Thatcher ran on reversing decline, not telling everyone it was all shit.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 50,772
    HYUFD said:

    Seems Sunak won 85% of undecided Tory members after tonight's Sky debate

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1555297635858321409?s=20&t=EAu-hgkDa2ATS-5kAXm97Q

    Probably not enough.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Seems Sunak won 85% of undecided Tory members after tonight's Sky debate

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1555297635858321409?s=20&t=EAu-hgkDa2ATS-5kAXm97Q

    Probably not enough.
    Could still make it close though
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
    I'm not as nostalgic as you for the swinging late 90's. I totally get why you are though.

    For me the early to mid 90's had better fashion and music for the most part.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    edited August 2022
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
    OMG. I had completely forgotten this one.

    How the hell did they get away with it?

    Within seconds we are in a biology class and there's a monkey shagging another monkey on the film the kids are watching. Talk about subtle.

    The teacher spends her time stroking her pussy cat.

    And when I was at school I also covered my school jacket with badges like these kids.

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 14,772

    Here is an unpleasant truth: The US and the UK have suffered large losses from COVID, and now from Putin's war on Ukraine. We can pay for them in various ways, inflation, passing them on to children and grandchildren, and so on, but we can not magically wish them away.

    We can -- and in the US are -- fighting over how to distribute those losses, but we are spending less time than we ought thinking about how we can recover from them. (And, possibly, how we can avoid, or at least reduce, similar losses in the future.)

    Now I absolutely understand why politicians, at least those who hope to win their next elections, would prefer to avoid speaking frankly about those losses -- but we shouldn't let them get away with that evasion.

    I can't speak for the US, but I think the situation is a lot worse than that in the UK.

    We have some pretty major structural weaknesses in the economy that have led to gradual decline, that despite everyone being aware of them - low business investment, poor skills education, low general education levels, misdirection of capital to property speculation, etc - nothing has been done to successfully address them. Now it's like the tide has gone out and it's become painfully obvious how bad the damage is and how difficult it will be to repair.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    New Florida Governor poll has DeSantis narrowly trailing likely Democrat candidate Charlie Crist


    https://t.co/ViV11QVBdH
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,401
    HYUFD said:

    Seems Sunak won 85% of undecided Tory members after tonight's Sky debate

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1555297635858321409?s=20&t=EAu-hgkDa2ATS-5kAXm97Q

    It's those who have decided that he has a problem with.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    HYUFD said:

    New Florida Governor poll has DeSantis narrowly trailing likely Democrat candidate Charlie Crist


    https://t.co/ViV11QVBdH

    Frees him up for a run at Trump in the primary!!!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    HYUFD said:

    Seems Sunak won 85% of undecided Tory members after tonight's Sky debate

    https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1555297635858321409?s=20&t=EAu-hgkDa2ATS-5kAXm97Q

    It's those who have decided that he has a problem with.
    This was always going to happen with Sky, the Murdochs are all in on Team Sunak.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    NBC News
    @NBCNews
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: Alex Jones ordered to pay $4.1 million to the family of a 6-year-old killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting for the suffering he caused them by spreading lies about the 2012 massacre, jury rules.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    HYUFD said:

    New Florida Governor poll has DeSantis narrowly trailing likely Democrat candidate Charlie Crist


    https://t.co/ViV11QVBdH

    Frees him up for a run at Trump in the primary!!!
    Nah, I don't think he will but he's completely smoked if he loses Florida to Crist.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    New Florida Governor poll has DeSantis narrowly trailing likely Democrat candidate Charlie Crist


    https://t.co/ViV11QVBdH

    Frees him up for a run at Trump in the primary!!!
    Nah, I don't think he will but he's completely smoked if he loses Florida to Crist.
    Especially as even Trump won Florida in 2020
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,458

    NBC News
    @NBCNews
    ·
    1h
    BREAKING: Alex Jones ordered to pay $4.1 million to the family of a 6-year-old killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting for the suffering he caused them by spreading lies about the 2012 massacre, jury rules.

    Good
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    "The jury will also decide whether to award punitive damages."
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    Jones is more f-ed than one of TSE's dockside friends.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,773

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:
    It's a fucking bonkers project.
    Well, yes.

    But the idea of an entirely linear city is rather interesting: it means you can have just a couple of rail tracks running at different speeds, and can reach any point on it, very quickly.

    Of course, it will probably be an enormous failure, but at least the Saudi government is spending their money on crazy vanity projects rather than funding Islamic terrorists.
    But all the travel from all of one half of the city to all of the other half of the city will have to go through the central point. That would require an insane throughput capacity, whereas, with a circular city you can have all sorts of point-to-point journeys that don't all have to go through the same pinch point.
    And how, exactly, are you planning on expanding your circular city?
    By a circular city I meant a city like London, which is shaped roughly like a circle. So a filled-in circle. Perhaps disc-shaped would be better. Or I could have just said, a "normal" city.
    But that requires incredibly complex transport systems, as opposed to (say) one express line and one local one.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,043
    Wow.

    "[The family] had requested $150 million in compensatory damages for years of torment and threats after Mr. Jones’s lies about them on Infowars, his Austin-based website and broadcast. This is the first of three trials in which juries are being asked to decide how much Mr. Jones must pay relatives of 10 Sandy Hook victims for spreading lies that they were actors in a so-called false flag operation planned by the government."

    NY Times blog

    He is gonna end up on the street begging for quarters.

    "Mr. Jones has been emblematic of how misinformation and false narratives have gained traction in society over the past decade. He has played a role in spreading some of recent history’s most pernicious and dangerous conspiracy theories, such as Pizzagate"


  • CatManCatMan Posts: 2,722
    Leon said:
    You should sue him. He's nicked your hypothesis!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,263

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
    I'm not as nostalgic as you for the swinging late 90's. I totally get why you are though.

    For me the early to mid 90's had better fashion and music for the most part.
    I do not disagree. That is an entirely sensible position to take

    My argument is different: it is that we have lost all that guiltless, sexy, confident outlook on life. eg The confidence that, if you don't like the pop music right now, don't worry, another brilliant band will be along in a few months, with new fashions and new verve, and off we again, yayyyy

    The production line of western creativity has stopped, and the death of good pop music - which was in ceaseless brilliant ferment since about 1955- is a crucial symptom of this. There is no Mmmbop of Today, there is no Busted making mad videos, there is no new Elvis. And this is not some sad old git lamenting lost youth (even if I am that) this is a very real Decline and Fall

    Busted might have been the last really good British pop band, it's hard to think of one since, that has that innocent swagger. A music critic friend of mine says that Amy Winehouse was the last great popstar we will ever know, I used to dismiss this opinion as eccentric nostalgia; now I see his meaning
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
    I'm not as nostalgic as you for the swinging late 90's. I totally get why you are though.

    For me the early to mid 90's had better fashion and music for the most part.
    I do not disagree. That is an entirely sensible position to take

    My argument is different: it is that we have lost all that guiltless, sexy, confident outlook on life. eg The confidence that, if you don't like the pop music right now, don't worry, another brilliant band will be along in a few months, with new fashions and new verve, and off we again, yayyyy

    The production line of western creativity has stopped, and the death of good pop music - which was in ceaseless brilliant ferment since about 1955- is a crucial symptom of this. There is no Mmmbop of Today, there is no Busted making mad videos, there is no new Elvis. And this is not some sad old git lamenting lost youth (even if I am that) this is a very real Decline and Fall

    Busted might have been the last really good British pop band, it's hard to think of one since, that has that innocent swagger. A music critic friend of mine says that Amy Winehouse was the last great popstar we will ever know, I used to dismiss this opinion as eccentric nostalgia; now I see his meaning
    George Ezra, Harry Styles, Mark Ronson, Florence and the Machine
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Leon said:

    A music critic friend of mine says that Amy Winehouse was the last great popstar we will ever know, I used to dismiss this opinion as eccentric nostalgia; now I see his meaning

    Blimey, he might be right.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
    I'm not as nostalgic as you for the swinging late 90's. I totally get why you are though.

    For me the early to mid 90's had better fashion and music for the most part.
    The dream of the 90s is alive in Portland.

    It really is. Love the place, in all its messiness.

    Best simple pop song of the last 20 years is “Classic” by the Knocks. Nothing to it, which is what makes it so great.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,773
    Dynamo said:

    Is there any other country in the world where it's up to members of a political party to pick the leader of the government if the sitting one leaves mid-term?

    China, France, Germany, India, Russia, USA - nope.

    The nearest I can find is Japan, where LDP members account for half the votes if it's an LDP PM being replaced.

    As for delaying the vote for security reasons, that wouldn't have happened if it was the state ensuring the integrity of the process in the first place rather than goodness knows who. Imagine if something serious were to happen while this farce is going on...

    Yes:

    Australia and Canada, for example. Anywhere with a Prime Minister selected by a Parliament who is head of the Executive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,773

    rcs1000 said:

    Here is an unpleasant truth: The US and the UK have suffered large losses from COVID, and now from Putin's war on Ukraine. We can pay for them in various ways, inflation, passing them on to children and grandchildren, and so on, but we can not magically wish them away.

    We can -- and in the US are -- fighting over how to distribute those losses, but we are spending less time than we ought thinking about how we can recover from them. (And, possibly, how we can avoid, or at least reduce, similar losses in the future.)

    Now I absolutely understand why politicians, at least those who hope to win their next elections, would prefer to avoid speaking frankly about those losses -- but we shouldn't let them get away with that evasion.

    Excellent comment...

    But I would note that politicians of the recent past - like Thatcher and Mitterrand, and even Cameron - ran on platforms that emphasized that things would be difficult

    The problem is that
    Thatcher ran on reversing decline, not telling everyone it was all shit.
    She told everyone that the nation has lived beyond its means, and it was going to be hard work, and difficult, but that her policies would turn it around. She promised, and delivered, tax rises for individuals in the first few years of her government.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,712
    rcs1000 said:

    Dynamo said:

    Is there any other country in the world where it's up to members of a political party to pick the leader of the government if the sitting one leaves mid-term?

    China, France, Germany, India, Russia, USA - nope.

    The nearest I can find is Japan, where LDP members account for half the votes if it's an LDP PM being replaced.

    As for delaying the vote for security reasons, that wouldn't have happened if it was the state ensuring the integrity of the process in the first place rather than goodness knows who. Imagine if something serious were to happen while this farce is going on...

    Yes:

    Australia and Canada, for example. Anywhere with a Prime Minister selected by a Parliament who is head of the Executive.
    And party members now vote for the Conservative and Liberal leaders in Canada, the Labor leader in Australia and CDU and SPD leaders in Germany
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 4,746
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
    I'm not as nostalgic as you for the swinging late 90's. I totally get why you are though.

    For me the early to mid 90's had better fashion and music for the most part.
    I do not disagree. That is an entirely sensible position to take

    My argument is different: it is that we have lost all that guiltless, sexy, confident outlook on life. eg The confidence that, if you don't like the pop music right now, don't worry, another brilliant band will be along in a few months, with new fashions and new verve, and off we again, yayyyy

    The production line of western creativity has stopped, and the death of good pop music - which was in ceaseless brilliant ferment since about 1955- is a crucial symptom of this. There is no Mmmbop of Today, there is no Busted making mad videos, there is no new Elvis. And this is not some sad old git lamenting lost youth (even if I am that) this is a very real Decline and Fall

    Busted might have been the last really good British pop band, it's hard to think of one since, that has that innocent swagger. A music critic friend of mine says that Amy Winehouse was the last great popstar we will ever know, I used to dismiss this opinion as eccentric nostalgia; now I see his meaning
    I think that the internet and streaming has basically killed off this type of stardom. Its cultural change, not decline.

    The ubiquity of porn on the internet was always going to do weird things to us. It has led to a moral panic which manifests itself in our 'sexless' culture now.

    It won't last forever, nothing does.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited August 2022
    Foxy said:

    Jonathan said:

    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    Is it inappropriate to like cheesy 90s pop like mmmbop by Hanson?

    No. Mmmmbop is one of the best pop songs ever written
    Thanks.

    I miss the optimism of the 90s. The closest I got to experiencing that recently was in India. How do we get our mojo back?

    This BoE announcement is not good. The pessimism in our political class is toxic.
    The one thing that Johnson could do was optimism. It was all ludicrous bullshit, but at the end of the day people need a reason to believe that tommorow will be a better day.

    It's why Starmer won't win with his "Tory policy, but with a pained expression" manifesto. People don't want that. They want snake oil, like Truss is selling.
    Pretty extraordinary that all the sensible voices in parliament -about 420 MPs -said go ahead with brexit and we'll end up going to hell in a handcart.

    Woe and behold we now find ourselves going to hell in a handcart....with all the culprits in a shambolic mess on one side of the house and everyone's suddenly lost their tongues......

    Why not try Cumming's brilliant analogy..... 'You're in a car heading towards a cliff......'

    Genius! He just applied it to the wrong side
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,285
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    For best pure pop songs, I nominate "Back of my hand" by The Jags:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElnoSARYjxs

    Not quite Mmmbop, that that's a very good candidate. I'd quite forgotten it, yet it has that purity. Marred by a dismal guitar solo, but still, there is genius there

    I'd like to nominate the entire oeuvre of Busted, who are seen as a joke but they wrote superb pop songs

    There are several contenders, but this is perhaps their greatest work:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co
    Hahah. Bad late 90's music Leon is a new departure!

    I'd say Year 3000 if it's called that was their best song. I have a soft spot for their Thunderbirds theme tune too.

    Year 3000 is also a great pop song. But even better is Air Hostess

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAI1Onf2-Co

    LOOK AT IT

    "I messed my pants, as we flew over France"

    Handsome young men, beautiful girls, punky attitudes, spiky hair, tiny skirts, humour, wit and pzazz, and an unabashed, guiltless sexuality. And everyone is having a laugh. What the fuck have we lost? How have we turned into this depressing, guilt-ridden, celibate sexlesss society soaked by Woke? It is a dreadful evolution, and the music is so much worse
    I'm not as nostalgic as you for the swinging late 90's. I totally get why you are though.

    For me the early to mid 90's had better fashion and music for the most part.
    I do not disagree. That is an entirely sensible position to take

    My argument is different: it is that we have lost all that guiltless, sexy, confident outlook on life. eg The confidence that, if you don't like the pop music right now, don't worry, another brilliant band will be along in a few months, with new fashions and new verve, and off we again, yayyyy

    The production line of western creativity has stopped, and the death of good pop music - which was in ceaseless brilliant ferment since about 1955- is a crucial symptom of this. There is no Mmmbop of Today, there is no Busted making mad videos, there is no new Elvis. And this is not some sad old git lamenting lost youth (even if I am that) this is a very real Decline and Fall

    Busted might have been the last really good British pop band, it's hard to think of one since, that has that innocent swagger. A music critic friend of mine says that Amy Winehouse was the last great popstar we will ever know, I used to dismiss this opinion as eccentric nostalgia; now I see his meaning
    I'd say in the 90s we had just the right amount of technology to foster that sort of cultural environment. Before then there wasn't enough, since then there's too much.
This discussion has been closed.