Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The big fact about the next election – politicalbetting.com

245678

Comments

  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,676

    HYUFD said:

    I'm not convinced the DUP wouldn't do a deal in the end with Tories.

    If the Irish Sea border was scrapped.

    However on the locals results Labour plus LDs would be more than Tories plus DUP even ignoring the SNP
    maybe instead of sucking up to the DUP the Tories could try having some policies, even better they could actually implement some of them
    And better still, they could replace the present Cabinet with some decent, honest, fair-minded people with whom other parties could talk and trust.

    But these are currently in short supply in the Conservative Party.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    Doesn't prove that. Work overruns,. they get on with finishing it after the gulab jamm.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    So you're arguing that this memo proves that curry was a the pre-planned working dinner, but we can ignore the bit after?

    And also, why didn't Labour produce this memo themselves if it proves they're in the clear?
    Because it's private and confidential?

    I expect they provided it to the Police, who have now leaked it. Just like they leaked the investigation being reopened without telling Starmer's office first.
    What's interesting is that you're telling us all how Starmer obviously hasn't done anything wrong, and yet you're getting ready to accuse Durham Police of being politically motivated should they give Starmer a fine.
    No if they give Starmer a fine, Starmer should resign. I trust the Police to do the right thing.

    What I am questioning is how this has been put out.
    Well, they held off announcing their decision until after the elections, which I think was wrong. But I don't care all that much about it.

    Ultimately, people leak. Gordon Brown used to love it when he was in opposition. He wasn't so keen on it when he was in government.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,391
    edited May 2022

    Labour set to lose 21 seats in Tower Hsmlets and maybe 2 or 3 in Croydon based on the mayoralty election, leaving them with a really lukewarm gain in England of perhaps 25 seats against Mr Mephisto and the Party Pack. And that's before hypocritegate takes off.
    They are a really worthless bunch, the lot of them. What a choice in 2024.
    Oh, betting tips! Norwich North is a lock for Labour next time out, if you want a seat against the head, I fancy one of the three Sunderlands to flip, probably central and as much as Malcolm would string me up for it, the Scot Tories will, despite Thursday, retake Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock if they can avoid any further backsliding

    21 seats is a heavy percentage of the number of seats Labour gained in England yesterday. Looks like they're down from 50 to 30, and they could lose some more in Croydon.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,797

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    That itinerary doesn't preclude at all that SKS on an individual basis had fired up the laptop and worked around his meal, nor that he didn't know in advance the curry was being ordered in. Nor that a mix of delegates, namely those returning to the hotel (to where curry potentially could have been ordered) and those returning by car who would need to eat before going potentially some distance home, were being catered for. The take away, where it was delivered and who attended could readily be legitimate and necessary to the work circumstance.

    To me, there is still no gotcha here with the addition of that itenerary, but that said I've not viewed all the publically available video.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty
  • tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    So you're arguing that this memo proves that curry was a the pre-planned working dinner, but we can ignore the bit after?

    And also, why didn't Labour produce this memo themselves if it proves they're in the clear?
    Because it's private and confidential?

    I expect they provided it to the Police, who have now leaked it. Just like they leaked the investigation being reopened without telling Starmer's office first.
    What's interesting is that you're telling us all how Starmer obviously hasn't done anything wrong, and yet you're getting ready to accuse Durham Police of being politically motivated should they give Starmer a fine.
    No if they give Starmer a fine, Starmer should resign. I trust the Police to do the right thing.

    What I am questioning is how this has been put out.
    Well, they held off announcing their decision until after the elections, which I think was wrong. But I don't care all that much about it.

    Ultimately, people leak. Gordon Brown used to love it when he was in opposition. He wasn't so keen on it when he was in government.
    Fair point.
  • Hope you are keeping otherwise well @tlg86
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Andy_JS said:

    Labour set to lose 21 seats in Tower Hsmlets and maybe 2 or 3 in Croydon based on the mayoralty election, leaving them with a really lukewarm gain in England of perhaps 25 seats against Mr Mephisto and the Party Pack. And that's before hypocritegate takes off.
    They are a really worthless bunch, the lot of them. What a choice in 2024.
    Oh, betting tips! Norwich North is a lock for Labour next time out, if you want a seat against the head, I fancy one of the three Sunderlands to flip, probably central and as much as Malcolm would string me up for it, the Scot Tories will, despite Thursday, retake Ayr, Carrick and Cumnock if they can avoid any further backsliding

    21 seats is a heavy percentage of the number of seats Labour gained in England yesterday. Looks like they're down from 50 to 30, and they could lose some more in Croydon.
    It's now 22 in TH. They should lose 4 in Croydon, the rest are probably safe solely on how toxic blues are right now. In any of the last 3 years the council would ha e flipped blue in these circs of bankruptcy and incompetence
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040
    On Topic - of course! Tories are lepers - no-one wants to be associated with them
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,710

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    Perhaps the whistleblower came from the event and is a secret Corbyn agent ! Either way it’s funny how one small twist of fate re the students taking a short video clip can change the course of history.

    Where as no 10 was party central I do feel for Starmer . Surely the police in attendance will give evidence as to what happened.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813
    SKS in big trouble if this is genuine,

    No work for hours

    https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1522977416037208064
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Pro_Rata said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    That itinerary doesn't preclude at all that SKS on an individual basis had fired up the laptop and worked around his meal, nor that he didn't know in advance the curry was being ordered in. Nor that a mix of delegates, namely those returning to the hotel (to where curry potentially could have been ordered) and those returning by car who would need to eat before going potentially some distance home, were being catered for. The take away, where it was delivered and who attended could readily be legitimate and necessary to the work circumstance.

    To me, there is still no gotcha here with the addition of that itenerary, but that said I've not viewed all the publically available video.
    I think it comes down to what constitutes work. During the 2011 Census, we ordered in pizzas when half a dozen or so of us were working late.

    This sounds like a business meeting rather than putting together leaflet packs etc.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,416

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    and lets face it , as anyone been to a work event where in the evening you carry on after a heavy meal?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Hope you are keeping otherwise well @tlg86

    Very well, thank you, yourself?
  • Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,416

    I must say, it is strange the "whistleblower" sat on the bombshell evidence for so long, almost like they chose to deploy it politically near to the LEs

    yeah its called politics!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,391

    Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?

    If you're talking about the Tower Hamlets count, the police have had to be in attendance at the last 4 or 5 counts IIRC, because unauthorised people were in the habit of walking into the count and potentially interfering with the process.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?

    If you're talking about the Tower Hamlets count, the police have had to be in attendance at the last 4 or 5 counts IIRC, because unauthorised people were in the habit of walking into the count and potentially interfering with the process.
    No at the Starmer thing
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    If Labour do lose Croydon they have actually stood still in London, gaining 3 and losing 3 councils.
    I can see Aspire becoming a force in neighboring Newham and Hackney over the next few years
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,229
    EPG said:

    Alliance gained nine seats. All east of the Bann (counting Upper Bann). West of the Bann, there are six out of the 18 constituencies, and it is looking likely that they will have no change in party strength at all. Four Alliance gains were from the SDLP and two were from the Greens. The SDLP are the least sectarian of the four pillars of the old party system. I'd conclude that this election turned out to be a reshuffle of the non-sectarian vote and that the real earthquake is yet to be seen.

    Sinn Fein haven't really advanced that far.

    It's that the DUP self-destructed - splitting the Unionist vote - and the Alliance has taken votes from both them and the SDLP to make big advances.

    They are the real winners of this election.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463
    North Belfast declared = SF 2, DUP 2, Alliance 1
    > final two seats as predicted DUP 1, Alliance 1

    NI totals with 81/90 decided =
    SF 23, DUP 23, Alln 17, UUP 9, SDLP 6, TUV 1, PBP 1, Ind Unionist 1
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,416
    edited May 2022

    Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?

    Always trouble at Tower Hamlets - goes back to Galloway days
  • Oh I thought the Police were attending the Starmer beer thing as well
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    It exonerates him, I don't see how this is anything but good news for Starmer.
    We will see. I have always said it was a non story but we will see.
    Would like somebody to bring me down a peg as I am trying to be objective about this - if he does get fined he must go.

    But I don't see how a planned meal with social distancing guidelines followed between two events that were campaign related can be interpreted as anything other than totally necessary.

    Can somebody explain what I am missing?

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    It exonerates him, I don't see how this is anything but good news for Starmer.
    We will see. I have always said it was a non story but we will see.
    Would like somebody to bring me down a peg as I am trying to be objective about this - if he does get fined he must go.

    But I don't see how a planned meal with social distancing guidelines followed between two events that were campaign related can be interpreted as anything other than totally necessary.

    Can somebody explain what I am missing?
    They planned a minor party. They planned for Rayner to be there. They had it indoors when there were plenty of alternatives. It was an end of work function with 30 people. They lied about all of this

    None of this would really matter - who didn’t break the rules in some way, albeit maybe not as obviously as this - if 1. They hadn’t lied and 2. Starmer hadn’t called on Boris to resign just for an investigation. Starmer is now being investigated

    I can’t see how Starmer can avoid resigning - or looking like a total hypocrite and seriously damaging the brand

    This is bad for Labour, as Partygate was bad for Boris
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,334
    I can see what's in this for The Mail. It's the same as Growlergate. They publish a silly story, people laugh at them, they go a bit bonkers saying THIS IS A STORY. Because unlike The Sun, The Mail takes itself seriously and wants to be taken seriously. The worst thing you do to The Mail is not take them seriously.

    I can see what's in this for the Conservatives, provided it doesn't go anywhere. It creates noise for a bit to get the greased pig out of a hole.

    But the Conservatives are playing with fire here. If Starmer gets fined and walks, how the hell can BoJo stay when the next fine lands? I'm sure he'll try, but how?

    It's one thing to blow the bloody doors off...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    and lets face it , as anyone been to a work event where in the evening you carry on after a heavy meal?
    Not if there is a time sensitive element - SKS going down south, things to get done before that/the election. Like putting on a play. You may stop for a meal but you work till it is finished.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    Doesn't prove that. Work overruns,. they get on with finishing it after the gulab jamm.
    Oh FFS. Do you really believe that?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,416

    If Labour do lose Croydon they have actually stood still in London, gaining 3 and losing 3 councils.
    I can see Aspire becoming a force in neighboring Newham and Hackney over the next few years

    RESPECT reborn
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,229
    Andy_JS said:

    Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?

    If you're talking about the Tower Hamlets count, the police have had to be in attendance at the last 4 or 5 counts IIRC, because unauthorised people were in the habit of walking into the count and potentially interfering with the process.
    Lutfur Rahman should have been barred for life, IMHO.

    He won't have changed, and will now get up to his old tricks again.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    So you're arguing that this memo proves that curry was a the pre-planned working dinner, but we can ignore the bit after?
    The bit after doesn't say they stopped working. It says back Radison whatever that is.

    They probably continued working there.
    Are you happy with the 32 seat Gain in England?

    I think Drakeford made twice as many in little old Wales

    What do you put the massively differential performances down to?


    ie a loss in every Region of England except London

    Spinning this as a triumph yesterday morning makes you look a bit silly IMO
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775
    Sean_F said:

    Farooq said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sean_F said:

    kjh said:

    Alistair said:

    I see PB favourite Paul Joseph Watson has been caught airing some views that were all the rage in early 1940s Germany.

    What has he said? I used to follow him, but don't now. He is always good for a laugh provided you are not easily converted by cults (I did spell that correctly). I got introduced to him by Plato.
    He was caught saying he'd like to wipe Jews off the planet.

    His outlook is similar to that of his near namesake, Paul Joseph Goebbels.
    Ah the horse shoe of politics, where the far left and far right are much closer to each other, than to more mainstream and centrist viewpoints.
    I understand why people like this view, but it has a troubling lack of traction in reality.
    When I put my ideological hat on, I see the horseshoe very clearly. I'm a centrist and I see overlaps between people on the extremes in both directions, but when you study history you get a very different picture. To dive straight into the the headline-grabbing example, Fascism and Communism, you see two ideologies that were bitterly and violently in opposition.
    I know some people like to fall back on "sibling rivalry" as an explanation for why they went around murdering each other and ended up in a war of annihilation, but that doesn't stack up. To take the views of the proponents of both at face value is to see a an extremely bitter enmity on the most fundamental level. They very thing that makes humans more than just an animal, the way we organise ourselves into groups with a common agenda, are completely different under both ideologies. The unrelenting horizontality of Communism, where even the concept of private property is sacrificed under the guise of freeing the worker from exploitative relations of production. And with fascism, the unyielding verticality. The racial tribe is a unit that must work under the direction of a quasi-religious leader, the total submission of the individual to that authority, the preservation of some mythical purity.
    To put it another way, the denial of difference versus the paranoid fear of those who are different.

    These are fundamentally different world views.

    Part of this is muddied by the practice of authoritarianism. It's easy to see the similarity when you only think of the repressive, murderous nature of governments that are riddled with these toxic ideologies. The horrifying violence that came with both is in some ways intrinsic to them because both Communism and Fascism are unnatural and they need violence to preserve themselves. But the key point here is that authoritarianism is much wider than that again. Non-Communist non-Fascist regimes have also been that way. Indeed, probably a majority of states across the sweep of human history have been authoritarian in nature, the horror only mitigated by the level of technological advancement limiting how far and fast a psychopathic leader can stamp his authority on a people.

    Democracy is right because it is fundamentally more peaceful. Power is vested in the people and the government serves at their pleasure. Communism and Fascism occupy the space outside that circle, but so does everything else. Is there really a case for saying they are similar in many other ways? I don't see it. The horseshoe doesn't work as a model once you have taken account of democracy and non-democracy. Within that non-democratic space are some pretty wild creatures, and Communism and Fascism are two big, nasty, and quite separate beasts, not the near neighbours some people want to imagine them to be.
    Communists and fascists hate each other, of course, but they hate more moderate members of their own "side" far more. On a number of issues, you'll find a kind of Red/Brown alliance, at least online. Whereas, overall, 80% of left wing voters supported Macron to 20% in round 2, those who self-identified as far left divided almost evenly between the two.
    This is where the "horseshoe" theory DOES have some explanatory value. In that, when out of power extremists on either side can sometimes see some affinity with each other. There's some sense in aligning yourself with other extremists to topple the centre and then hope your faction can win out against the other nutters in the final.
    The trouble is, as per your figures, the extremes break much more heavily towards the centre. That it, for every 1 horseshoe-er, there are 4 people who will take the centrist instead.

    So it's fairer to modify my original take from "horseshoe = nah" to "horseshoe = minority"

    And to reiterate in reply to kle4, the mere fact that Communist and Fascist governments have used violent authoritarianism as a tool is important but slightly less relevant than you think because MOST governments across history have done that. We are in a blessed minority of relative peace.
    The fact that Communist and Fascist governments have managed to dispose of so many of each other's soldiers and innocent civilians is in part a function of technological advancement. We can efficiently kill lots of people. You can bet the Norman Conquest would have looked a lot more like 20th Century warfare if only they had 20th Century weapons. But do either the Communists or the Fascists claim William the Bastard as one of them? I doubt it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,556

    North Belfast declared = SF 2, DUP 2, Alliance 1
    > final two seats as predicted DUP 1, Alliance 1

    NI totals with 81/90 decided =
    SF 23, DUP 23, Alln 17, UUP 9, SDLP 6, TUV 1, PBP 1, Ind Unionist 1

    It will be interesting to see if the DUP do throw their dinosaurs, sorry teddies, out of the pram.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 4,710
    I çan understand the STV system of voting might be fairer but jeez it goes on forever .

  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    JACK_W said:

    The Big Fat About The Next Election - Boris

    BJWNWA?
  • Keir Starmer lives a pretty joyless life, having to diarise a walk back to a hotel after a work meal
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,334
    edited May 2022
    nico679 said:

    I çan understand the STV system of voting might be fairer but jeez it goes on forever .

    And this is a bad thing?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,478
    nico679 said:

    I çan understand the STV system of voting might be fairer but jeez it goes on forever .

    Not as long as the governments though. A day or two of counting is negligible compared to how long we have to put up with unrepresentitive governments produced by FPTP.
  • Rules in place at time of Keir Starmer evening meal.

    1.—(1) No person may participate in a gathering in the Step 1 area which—
    (a)consists of two or more people, and
    (b)takes place indoors.
    (2) Sub-paragraph (1) does not apply if any of the exceptions set out in paragraph 4 or 5 apply.
    and then this in paragraph 4:
    (6) Exception 3 is that the gathering is reasonably necessary—
    (a)for work purposes or for the provision of voluntary or charitable services;

    Thoughts?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Its another nail in the Starmer coffin

    Voters just kicked Labour out for a bunch of Socialists whats not to like
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    edited May 2022
    Greens join the party in TH taking a seat in rock solid Bow.
    Final council tally
    Aspire 24
    Labour 19
    Green 1
    Conservative 1

    Aspire take the popular vote 37 to 36.5.

    Labour take an utter hammering
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    dixiedean said:

    The electoral landing zone for NOM is huge.
    Reckon it became more likely.

    Unless Tory vote colllapses in Midlands AND SLab vote soars, NOM is pretty much nailed on.
  • Quite honestly Angela Rayner being present to me says it was working, can't imagine her and Keir hang out at the pub for fun...
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Applicant said:

    This is an opinion, not a fact. In the event of a hung parliament, what happens next will depend on exact seat counts.

    Just like in 2010.

    Nope. Mike is right. The Tories are simply too repulsive.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813

    Andy_JS said:

    Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?

    If you're talking about the Tower Hamlets count, the police have had to be in attendance at the last 4 or 5 counts IIRC, because unauthorised people were in the habit of walking into the count and potentially interfering with the process.
    Lutfur Rahman should have been barred for life, IMHO.

    He won't have changed, and will now get up to his old tricks again.
    He wasnt, the voters have given him a 2nd chance

    Democracy is a bugger sometimes
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Rules in place at time of Keir Starmer evening meal.

    1.—(1) No person may participate in a gathering in the Step 1 area which—
    (a)consists of two or more people, and
    (b)takes place indoors.
    (2) Sub-paragraph (1) does not apply if any of the exceptions set out in paragraph 4 or 5 apply.
    and then this in paragraph 4:
    (6) Exception 3 is that the gathering is reasonably necessary—
    (a)for work purposes or for the provision of voluntary or charitable services;

    Thoughts?

    "Reasonably necessary" is the important bit.

    Incidentally, it's been mentioned that Johnson went into a pub after the by election or something. Also not necessary. Of course, for him it doesn't matter. Might as well hang for a sheep as a lamb.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Tribalism is a hell of a drug
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,275

    I can see what's in this for The Mail. It's the same as Growlergate. They publish a silly story, people laugh at them, they go a bit bonkers saying THIS IS A STORY. Because unlike The Sun, The Mail takes itself seriously and wants to be taken seriously. The worst thing you do to The Mail is not take them seriously.

    I can see what's in this for the Conservatives, provided it doesn't go anywhere. It creates noise for a bit to get the greased pig out of a hole.

    But the Conservatives are playing with fire here. If Starmer gets fined and walks, how the hell can BoJo stay when the next fine lands? I'm sure he'll try, but how?

    It's one thing to blow the bloody doors off...

    Boris will ride it out. Labour will be broken; an emboldened right-wing media will seek more of Boris's enemies to destroy; the Tories will secretly marvel at what a sly old bugger Boris been yet again. Boris is invincible.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?

    If you're talking about the Tower Hamlets count, the police have had to be in attendance at the last 4 or 5 counts IIRC, because unauthorised people were in the habit of walking into the count and potentially interfering with the process.
    Lutfur Rahman should have been barred for life, IMHO.

    He won't have changed, and will now get up to his old tricks again.
    He wasnt, the voters have given him a 2nd chance

    Democracy is a bugger sometimes
    BJO this is really bad mate, you're a lost cause if you're happy that fraudsters are allowed to win elections.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    Quite honestly Angela Rayner being present to me says it was working, can't imagine her and Keir hang out at the pub for fun...

    They weren't the only ones there!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I expect the word 'uncoalitionable' to appear in the next OED, as it's certainly not there now. As ever, PB sets the trend. And I agree with the header - the current Tories are Johnny No Mates.

    The words repulsive and shits are both in there.
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,040

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    So you're arguing that this memo proves that curry was a the pre-planned working dinner, but we can ignore the bit after?
    The bit after doesn't say they stopped working. It says back Radison whatever that is.

    They probably continued working there.
    Are you happy with the 32 seat Gain in England?

    I think Drakeford made twice as many in little old Wales

    What do you put the massively differential performances down to?


    ie a loss in every Region of England except London

    Spinning this as a triumph yesterday morning makes you look a bit silly IMO
    It's an ok result for Labour - not great, not terrible. It's progress albeit slow but we have to acknowledge that SKS is not a great leader.

    We need to move on from the disaster that was Corbyn. I actually quite like him but he took Labour to their worst defeat since 1935 and as we all know he's far from the brightest pea in the pod - how he got 2 Es at A-level, God only knows; the dumbing down of A-levels must have started eons ago.

    Anyway, its onwards and forwards for Labour - it may not lead to the promised land but there is at least something to play for.
  • Farooq said:

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Tribalism is a hell of a drug
    I am so very glad I have got out of it.

    Keir will have to resign if he gets fined and I would very strongly support such an action.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,183
    East Derry:

    2 DUP
    1 SF
    1 SDLP
    and Claire Sugden
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,128

    I can see what's in this for The Mail. It's the same as Growlergate. They publish a silly story, people laugh at them, they go a bit bonkers saying THIS IS A STORY. Because unlike The Sun, The Mail takes itself seriously and wants to be taken seriously. The worst thing you do to The Mail is not take them seriously.

    I can see what's in this for the Conservatives, provided it doesn't go anywhere. It creates noise for a bit to get the greased pig out of a hole.

    But the Conservatives are playing with fire here. If Starmer gets fined and walks, how the hell can BoJo stay when the next fine lands? I'm sure he'll try, but how?

    It's one thing to blow the bloody doors off...

    How does Johnson stay? Easy. By not leaving. He has no intention of resigning no matter how many fines and how embarrassing it all becomes. I suspect he will view Starmer as a loser for resigning over what Johnson thinks is trivia.

    Tory MPs clearly aren't going to challenge him. Every time it seems that might be a bit closer they all start rolling out excuses about needing to wait just a little bit longer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,478

    Rules in place at time of Keir Starmer evening meal.

    1.—(1) No person may participate in a gathering in the Step 1 area which—
    (a)consists of two or more people, and
    (b)takes place indoors.
    (2) Sub-paragraph (1) does not apply if any of the exceptions set out in paragraph 4 or 5 apply.
    and then this in paragraph 4:
    (6) Exception 3 is that the gathering is reasonably necessary—
    (a)for work purposes or for the provision of voluntary or charitable services;

    Thoughts?

    Very different rules to April 20 or Nov-Dec 20.

  • But if Starmer resigns, not only does somebody like Streeting take over who is decent - but Johnson looks like a man with no honour.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Its another nail in the Starmer coffin

    Voters just kicked Labour out for a bunch of Socialists whats not to like
    BJO.

    I am saying to you, whatever our differences, please don't cheer on a convicted fraudster winning an election. Please don't do that.
    He has served his time

    Please respect democracy

    Labour shouldnt be in this position

    SKS is useless

    Anyone defending him after yesterdays results must want Labour to lose is the only conclusion I can reach

    Tory enablers i think is the phrase
  • tlg86 said:

    Quite honestly Angela Rayner being present to me says it was working, can't imagine her and Keir hang out at the pub for fun...

    They weren't the only ones there!
    They probably had to keep them socially distanced to prevent a fist fight breaking out
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,229
    Can someone please explain to me how our travesty of an entry into the Eurovision song contest is 3rd favourite in the betting?

    It's like a metro hairy biker doing bad karaoke after a skinful down on a Friday night, with the aid of a mate to cup his balls.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463

    Applicant said:

    This is an opinion, not a fact. In the event of a hung parliament, what happens next will depend on exact seat counts.

    Just like in 2010.

    Nope. Mike is right. The Tories are simply too repulsive.
    DUP and UUP most likely to do deal with this PM, despite recent less-than-happy history.

    AND can we totally rule out, seemingly highly-remote possibility, that Boris Johnson might emulate his alleged mentor, by offering Irish Nationalist up to & including Sinn Féin the same deal (or similar) "A Nation Once Again" deal of a lifetime, that Winston Churchill offered to Éamon de Valera during WW2?
  • Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Its another nail in the Starmer coffin

    Voters just kicked Labour out for a bunch of Socialists whats not to like
    BJO.

    I am saying to you, whatever our differences, please don't cheer on a convicted fraudster winning an election. Please don't do that.
    He has served his time

    Please respect democracy

    Labour shouldnt be in this position

    SKS is useless

    Anyone defending him after yesterdays results must want Labour to lose is the only conclusion I can reach

    Tory enablers i think is the phrase
    I'm going to have to put you on the ignore list mate, I can't deal with people who are so far down the rabbit hole like this. Hope you'll be able to get out one day.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,128
    edited May 2022

    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    It exonerates him, I don't see how this is anything but good news for Starmer.
    We will see. I have always said it was a non story but we will see.
    Would like somebody to bring me down a peg as I am trying to be objective about this - if he does get fined he must go.

    But I don't see how a planned meal with social distancing guidelines followed between two events that were campaign related can be interpreted as anything other than totally necessary.

    Can somebody explain what I am missing?
    They planned a minor party. They planned for Rayner to be there. They had it indoors when there were plenty of alternatives. It was an end of work function with 30 people. They lied about all of this

    None of this would really matter - who didn’t break the rules in some way, albeit maybe not as obviously as this - if 1. They hadn’t lied and 2. Starmer hadn’t called on Boris to resign just for an investigation. Starmer is now being investigated

    I can’t see how Starmer can avoid resigning - or looking like a total hypocrite and seriously damaging the brand

    This is bad for Labour, as Partygate was bad for Boris

    I agree it looks very bad. His fate is in the hands of Durham police although as a lawyer Starmer might fancy taking it to court and challenge rather than pay the FPN. That might drag it out a bit given the state of the courts.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Farooq said:

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Tribalism is a hell of a drug
    I am so very glad I have got out of it.

    Keir will have to resign if he gets fined and I would very strongly support such an action.
    Yes. My feeling is this is no breach and is being ramped by desperate opponents. But I'm happy to join them in calling for his resignation if they are right and I'm wrong.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813

    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    So you're arguing that this memo proves that curry was a the pre-planned working dinner, but we can ignore the bit after?
    The bit after doesn't say they stopped working. It says back Radison whatever that is.

    They probably continued working there.
    Are you happy with the 32 seat Gain in England?

    I think Drakeford made twice as many in little old Wales

    What do you put the massively differential performances down to?


    ie a loss in every Region of England except London

    Spinning this as a triumph yesterday morning makes you look a bit silly IMO
    CHB could you answer re this please


    Except its now down to 29 gains in the whole of England and net losses in every Region except London
  • NEW: The Sunday Times has a Labour source present at the Durham party who confirms NO work was done after the curry and beer, as per Mail on Sunday's leaked op note.

    The Times' source is willing to help Durham police with their inquiries.

    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1522993673822257152

    Well, Keir might need to start thinking about how best to get a successor into place
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    Man Utd.

    :lol:
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463
    Carnyx said:

    North Belfast declared = SF 2, DUP 2, Alliance 1
    > final two seats as predicted DUP 1, Alliance 1

    NI totals with 81/90 decided =
    SF 23, DUP 23, Alln 17, UUP 9, SDLP 6, TUV 1, PBP 1, Ind Unionist 1

    It will be interesting to see if the DUP do throw their dinosaurs, sorry teddies, out of the pram.
    They're winning fair number of seats with aid of TUV transfers. On other hand, the late Rev. Dr. Ian Paisley the Elder showed that "No Surrender" can yield to "Let's Make a Deal" provided (to cite another US TV game show) "The Price is Right".

    Footnote - "No Surrender" would make a wonderful new game show for Joe Rogan and . . . wait for it . . . 45!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900



    Taz said:

    Taz said:
    It exonerates him, I don't see how this is anything but good news for Starmer.
    We will see. I have always said it was a non story but we will see.
    Would like somebody to bring me down a peg as I am trying to be objective about this - if he does get fined he must go.

    But I don't see how a planned meal with social distancing guidelines followed between two events that were campaign related can be interpreted as anything other than totally necessary.

    Can somebody explain what I am missing?
    They planned a minor party. They planned for Rayner to be there. They had it indoors when there were plenty of alternatives. It was an end of work function with 30 people. They lied about all of this

    None of this would really matter - who didn’t break the rules in some way, albeit maybe not as obviously as this - if 1. They hadn’t lied and 2. Starmer hadn’t called on Boris to resign just for an investigation. Starmer is now being investigated

    I can’t see how Starmer can avoid resigning - or looking like a total hypocrite and seriously damaging the brand

    This is bad for Labour, as Partygate was bad for Boris
    I agree it looks very bad. His fate is in the hands of Durham police although as a lawyer Starmer might fancy taking it to court and challenge rather than pay the FPN. That might drag it out a bit given the state of the courts.

    If he fights any fine labour are done. Basically saying rules were for the little people
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Andy_JS said:

    Why were the Police in attendance, can somebody explain that?

    If you're talking about the Tower Hamlets count, the police have had to be in attendance at the last 4 or 5 counts IIRC, because unauthorised people were in the habit of walking into the count and potentially interfering with the process.
    Lutfur Rahman should have been barred for life, IMHO.

    He won't have changed, and will now get up to his old tricks again.
    He wasnt, the voters have given him a 2nd chance

    Democracy is a bugger sometimes
    When the electorate falls for the canard that an anti Semitic traitor is an anti Semitic traitor frinstance
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187

    But if Starmer resigns, not only does somebody like Streeting take over who is decent - but Johnson looks like a man with no honour.

    Indeed, there is an opportunity for both Labour and the Tories if they get it right. The Tories should absolutely ditch Johnson, but I wouldn't count on it happening.

    But equally, don't expect Starmer to go quietly. He's probably already imagining himself walking down Downing Street. He won't give it up without a fight.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,275

    Can someone please explain to me how our travesty of an entry into the Eurovision song contest is 3rd favourite in the betting?

    It's like a metro hairy biker doing bad karaoke after a skinful down on a Friday night, with the aid of a mate to cup his balls.

    Presumably punters are piling in thinking it might be different this time, what with Boris being the military saviour of Europe and all that.
  • If the Sunday Times source is right, can't really disagree that it looks like they broke the rules.

    Oh dear Keir, oh dear me
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,925
    tlg86 said:

    Man Utd.

    :lol:

    If we are following the logic of the local elections, then Graham Potter must resign.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900

    NEW: The Sunday Times has a Labour source present at the Durham party who confirms NO work was done after the curry and beer, as per Mail on Sunday's leaked op note.

    The Times' source is willing to help Durham police with their inquiries.

    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1522993673822257152

    Well, Keir might need to start thinking about how best to get a successor into place

    It's the cover up that gets you. Watergate was a nothing burger till Nixon went full on Tonto about covering it up
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Tribalism is a hell of a drug
    I am so very glad I have got out of it.

    Keir will have to resign if he gets fined and I would very strongly support such an action.
    Yes. My feeling is this is no breach and is being ramped by desperate opponents. But I'm happy to join them in calling for his resignation if they are right and I'm wrong.
    Have you seen the Sunday Times?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,833

    Can someone please explain to me how our travesty of an entry into the Eurovision song contest is 3rd favourite in the betting?

    It's like a metro hairy biker doing bad karaoke after a skinful down on a Friday night, with the aid of a mate to cup his balls.

    Yet another failure, to recruit an established artist and write an annoyingly catchy pop tune.

    Yet the charts are full of British artists and writers.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    Doesn't prove that. Work overruns,. they get on with finishing it after the gulab jamm.
    Oh FFS. Do you really believe that?
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Tribalism is a hell of a drug
    I am so very glad I have got out of it.

    Keir will have to resign if he gets fined and I would very strongly support such an action.
    Yes. My feeling is this is no breach and is being ramped by desperate opponents. But I'm happy to join them in calling for his resignation if they are right and I'm wrong.
    But Starmer called for Boris to resign simply because he was being investigated by police. Now Starmer is being investigated by police

    Thoughts?
  • Legal eagles will have to chime in more but how much weight does "to the best of my knowledge" have?
  • Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    Doesn't prove that. Work overruns,. they get on with finishing it after the gulab jamm.
    Oh FFS. Do you really believe that?
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Tribalism is a hell of a drug
    I am so very glad I have got out of it.

    Keir will have to resign if he gets fined and I would very strongly support such an action.
    Yes. My feeling is this is no breach and is being ramped by desperate opponents. But I'm happy to join them in calling for his resignation if they are right and I'm wrong.
    But Starmer called for Boris to resign simply because he was being investigated by police. Now Starmer is being investigated by police

    Thoughts?
    No Leon, Starmer called for Johnson to resign after lying to the HoC, saying no parties took place.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Corbyn and Abbotts pronouncements lead me to believe they know what's about to come out, the left is swinging back
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,229

    Can someone please explain to me how our travesty of an entry into the Eurovision song contest is 3rd favourite in the betting?

    It's like a metro hairy biker doing bad karaoke after a skinful down on a Friday night, with the aid of a mate to cup his balls.

    Presumably punters are piling in thinking it might be different this time, what with Boris being the military saviour of Europe and all that.
    I am thinking of laying it but then there's a voice in my head saying if I think the song is shite then it's probably an amazing contender for Eurovision, as they are totally devoid of taste.

    I need the opinion of veterans like @TSE .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,128

    NEW: The Sunday Times has a Labour source present at the Durham party who confirms NO work was done after the curry and beer, as per Mail on Sunday's leaked op note.

    The Times' source is willing to help Durham police with their inquiries.

    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1522993673822257152

    Well, Keir might need to start thinking about how best to get a successor into place

    It's the cover up that gets you. Watergate was a nothing burger till Nixon went full on Tonto about covering it up
    As I said earlier - Burnham is 5.2 on BF for next leader and as the evening wears on it looks more and more likely that there will be a leadership election way before Burnham becomes an MP.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,813

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Its another nail in the Starmer coffin

    Voters just kicked Labour out for a bunch of Socialists whats not to like
    BJO.

    I am saying to you, whatever our differences, please don't cheer on a convicted fraudster winning an election. Please don't do that.
    He has served his time

    Please respect democracy

    Labour shouldnt be in this position

    SKS is useless

    Anyone defending him after yesterdays results must want Labour to lose is the only conclusion I can reach

    Tory enablers i think is the phrase
    I'm going to have to put you on the ignore list mate, I can't deal with people who are so far down the rabbit hole like this. Hope you'll be able to get out one day.
    SKS fans are the Tory enablers

    You want be able to ignore the GE result
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    edited May 2022

    NEW: The Sunday Times has a Labour source present at the Durham party who confirms NO work was done after the curry and beer, as per Mail on Sunday's leaked op note.

    The Times' source is willing to help Durham police with their inquiries.

    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1522993673822257152

    Well, Keir might need to start thinking about how best to get a successor into place

    It's the cover up that gets you. Watergate was a nothing burger till Nixon went full on Tonto about covering it up
    As I said earlier - Burnham is 5.2 on BF for next leader and as the evening wears on it looks more and more likely that there will be a leadership election way before Burnham becomes an MP.
    If Croydon falls tonight Starmer might find friends are transient
  • NEW: The Sunday Times has a Labour source present at the Durham party who confirms NO work was done after the curry and beer, as per Mail on Sunday's leaked op note.

    The Times' source is willing to help Durham police with their inquiries.

    https://twitter.com/christiancalgie/status/1522993673822257152

    Well, Keir might need to start thinking about how best to get a successor into place

    It's the cover up that gets you. Watergate was a nothing burger till Nixon went full on Tonto about covering it up
    As I said earlier - Burnham is 5.2 on BF for next leader and as the evening wears on it looks more and more likely that there will be a leadership election way before Burnham becomes an MP.
    Burnham will never be Labour leader.

    But Streeting might be.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,334

    But if Starmer resigns, not only does somebody like Streeting take over who is decent - but Johnson looks like a man with no honour.

    One one level, we know that already. But... to have it made that explicit, that blatant, are Conservative MPs really up for that? I can see the calculation- hell, I wrote it down earlier today- but are they really that soulless and spineless? Perhaps.

    Besides. Starmer had an important, necessary job; move
    Labour on from the Corbyn fiasco. He's done that with admirable efficiency, and perhaps he was the only one who could. If a new generation leader with more pizzazz moves in before 2024, that isn't really in the Conservatives' interest.

    (PS on TH; Rahman is no more a True Socialist than Degsy Hatton was. In both cases, it's all about ego. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a fool or in on the grift.)
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,275
    Sandpit said:

    Can someone please explain to me how our travesty of an entry into the Eurovision song contest is 3rd favourite in the betting?

    It's like a metro hairy biker doing bad karaoke after a skinful down on a Friday night, with the aid of a mate to cup his balls.

    Yet another failure, to recruit an established artist and write an annoyingly catchy pop tune.

    Yet the charts are full of British artists and writers.
    But none of those artists would want to sully their reputations by getting involved with crap like Eurovision. At best they'd be taken less seriously; at worst career death.
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,775

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Its another nail in the Starmer coffin

    Voters just kicked Labour out for a bunch of Socialists whats not to like
    BJO.

    I am saying to you, whatever our differences, please don't cheer on a convicted fraudster winning an election. Please don't do that.
    He has served his time

    Please respect democracy

    Labour shouldnt be in this position

    SKS is useless

    Anyone defending him after yesterdays results must want Labour to lose is the only conclusion I can reach

    Tory enablers i think is the phrase
    I'm going to have to put you on the ignore list mate, I can't deal with people who are so far down the rabbit hole like this. Hope you'll be able to get out one day.
    SKS fans are the Tory enablers

    You want be able to ignore the GE result
    Do you think if Labour lose an election with SKS as Labour leader that your POV will be vindicated?
    Well, imagine how Labour people who didn't like Corbyn feel after he lost two.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,977

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    tlg86 said:

    8:40 to 10, an hour and twenty minutes for a meal seems pretty fair.

    It even says what they will do afterwards, i.e. no party that went on.

    So I think Starmer is home and clear, seems like he was telling the truth.

    There was nothing planned after the dinner except going back to the hotel so it doesn't match the previous story that they were working late and spontaneously decided to get a takeaway curry.
    Who said they spontaneously chose to get a takeaway curry? The story has always been we were working late and had curry. Which is what the memo confirms to be true. They planned it out, like all organisations do.
    Starmer said they went back to work after eating.
    The memo doesn't prove that to not be true.
    Because the curry was the last thing listed on the memo it presumably implies that nothing else happened after the curry, so we have.

    Work event.
    Work event ends.
    Curry.

    So the curry is an isolated, non-work-related social event of the kind that was strictly forbidden. If the author had just written three words - 'Work event resumes' - as the last item then history would be entirely different.
    Doesn't prove that. Work overruns,. they get on with finishing it after the gulab jamm.
    Oh FFS. Do you really believe that?
    Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Aspire GAIN Tower Hamlets council from Labour with a majority of 3 (2 wards to declare, probably Lab holds)
    Rahman has his council to go with his mayoralty

    Brilliant
    You're literally cheering on somebody winning an election having been banned for fraud five years ago.

    This is the depths you have gone to.
    Tribalism is a hell of a drug
    I am so very glad I have got out of it.

    Keir will have to resign if he gets fined and I would very strongly support such an action.
    Yes. My feeling is this is no breach and is being ramped by desperate opponents. But I'm happy to join them in calling for his resignation if they are right and I'm wrong.
    But Starmer called for Boris to resign simply because he was being investigated by police. Now Starmer is being investigated by police

    Thoughts?
    No Leon, Starmer called for Johnson to resign after lying to the HoC, saying no parties took place.
    He called for him to resign over the investigation:

    @Keir_Starmer
    Honesty and decency matter.

    After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws.

    He needs to do the decent thing and resign.


    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1488176626642923521
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,128
    tlg86 said:

    But if Starmer resigns, not only does somebody like Streeting take over who is decent - but Johnson looks like a man with no honour.

    Indeed, there is an opportunity for both Labour and the Tories if they get it right. The Tories should absolutely ditch Johnson, but I wouldn't count on it happening.

    But equally, don't expect Starmer to go quietly. He's probably already imagining himself walking down Downing Street. He won't give it up without a fight.
    If he takes it to court is it a jury trial for a fine like this or just the magistrates?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,391
    edited May 2022
    "Police were called over to the counting table at a city's local elections after a dispute broke out over a ballot paper.

    The disagreement was over the Thorpe ward seat at Southend-on-Sea City Council in Essex, which ended in a dead heat. However, a disputed paper was challenged by independent group leader Martin Terry and ruled in his favour. Mr Terry won the seat by 1,230 votes to 1,229 for the Conservatives. The Tories said they thought it was "wrong" that the paper was accepted."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-61346914
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,463

    East Derry:

    2 DUP
    1 SF
    1 SDLP
    and Claire Sugden

    Fun fact - names of neighboring constituencies of Foyle and East Londonderry were specifically chosen by NI boundary commission, to give "parity of esteem" to the two communities.

    One dis-inclined to prefix the town's name with that of the English > British capital.

    The other usually dropping the prefix in common speech, but insisting or at least identifying with it for historico-political reasons.

    As someone whose heritage gives me a foot (or some other body part) in both camps, respect both points of view.

    Although squaring that in actual practice (such as when purchasing a bus ticket to get there from Belfast) can be challenging.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    I'm delighted to see that Peter Golds hung on in Tower Hamlets.

    In response to BJO, neither Rahman nor Aspire are socialists. They're are straightforward sectarians.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,913
    Actually, I'm not 100% convinced by OGH's argument. I think Labour will want to avoid a formal coalition (or even C&S) with the SNP, but will trust that they will not actually vote against and bring down the government.

    You therefore need Lab+LD to exceed Con+DUP.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,187
    edited May 2022

    tlg86 said:

    But if Starmer resigns, not only does somebody like Streeting take over who is decent - but Johnson looks like a man with no honour.

    Indeed, there is an opportunity for both Labour and the Tories if they get it right. The Tories should absolutely ditch Johnson, but I wouldn't count on it happening.

    But equally, don't expect Starmer to go quietly. He's probably already imagining himself walking down Downing Street. He won't give it up without a fight.
    If he takes it to court is it a jury trial for a fine like this or just the magistrates?
    Surely not a jury! Big call if he did do that. He could do some serious damage to Labour by not just sucking it up like Boris et al.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662

    But if Starmer resigns, not only does somebody like Streeting take over who is decent - but Johnson looks like a man with no honour.

    One one level, we know that already. But... to have it made that explicit, that blatant, are Conservative MPs really up for that? I can see the calculation- hell, I wrote it down earlier today- but are they really that soulless and spineless? Perhaps.

    Besides. Starmer had an important, necessary job; move
    Labour on from the Corbyn fiasco. He's done that with admirable efficiency, and perhaps he was the only one who could. If a new generation leader with more pizzazz moves in before 2024, that isn't really in the Conservatives' interest.

    (PS on TH; Rahman is no more a True Socialist than Degsy Hatton was. In both cases, it's all about ego. Anyone who tells you otherwise is either a fool or in on the grift.)
    Labour have a better chance of a game-changing election WIN with someone like Rayner or Streeting than they do with the utterly dreary Starmer. Esp if Starmer loses his dull-but-honest USP, which now seems probable

    A Starmer who is nearly as shifty as Boris - but much more boring and with no policies, is a hard sell
This discussion has been closed.