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The big fact about the next election – politicalbetting.com

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  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 18,507
    I see that the PB Cabinet BEIS gig is still vacant.

    May I throw my hard hat into the ring?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085
    As JackW already has carriage, sedan chair AND pie concession, he is natural candidate for Lord Chancellor, Speaker & High Executioner of PB House of Lords.

    By same token, BGNW is logical candidate for Speaker of PB House of Commons and Defender of Their Liberties & Perquisites.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    And the 5th (or was it 4th) seat?
    BBC and SKY yet to be updated past 3rd seat!
    Same with RTE
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 38,805

    Stereodog said:

    I've been enjoying the PB Cabinet chat. As a minor poster can I be Permanent Secretary of something? I'm already a civil servant so feel myself to be qualified.

    As long as your title amuses me, go for it! What in your professional opinion is the funniest bit of Brit govt?
    Got to be the Ministry of Silly Walks.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 367

    Stereodog said:

    I've been enjoying the PB Cabinet chat. As a minor poster can I be Permanent Secretary of something? I'm already a civil servant so feel myself to be qualified.

    As long as your title amuses me, go for it! What in your professional opinion is the funniest bit of Brit govt?
    That joke from Yes Minister about there being so many secretaries, none of whom can type is very accurate. There are quite a few Private Secretaries to the Permanent Secretary who have PAs in their team to do what most people would consider to be the actual secretarial work. Also in one department until about 2 years ago the complaints body could only be contacted by post or fax as a secure email address was deemed too expensive.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 33,489
    On checking, I think that PBP have won the seat at the expense of SDLP. The DUP or UUP will take the last seat.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 44,367
    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    PBP not confirmed on SKY or BBC websites
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 59,741
    Foxy said:

    They are all going to flee to Poland?


    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    27m
    In an interview for La Repubblica, the Deputy Speaker of the Russian Parliament, Pyotr Tolstoy, stated that Russia won’t stop its “special military operation” in Ukraine until the Russian Army reaches the Polish border.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1523025055273619456

    Delusional. By Autumn the Russian Army will be in Russia, in prison camps or in graves.
    They will be shot or imprisoned if they go back to Russia?

    Well, it worked for Stalin.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085
    Stereodog said:

    Stereodog said:

    I've been enjoying the PB Cabinet chat. As a minor poster can I be Permanent Secretary of something? I'm already a civil servant so feel myself to be qualified.

    As long as your title amuses me, go for it! What in your professional opinion is the funniest bit of Brit govt?
    That joke from Yes Minister about there being so many secretaries, none of whom can type is very accurate. There are quite a few Private Secretaries to the Permanent Secretary who have PAs in their team to do what most people would consider to be the actual secretarial work. Also in one department until about 2 years ago the complaints body could only be contacted by post or fax as a secure email address was deemed too expensive.
    Brick through the window would have been my preferred method.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,662
    Leon said:

    stodge said:


    First, we don't know what has happened on Croydon Council so notions of a "thrashing" may be a little premature.

    On the other hand, Newham was 64-2 for Labour, Barking & Dagenham 51-0 for Labour and Redbridge 55-5 for Labour and all these areas have plenty of ethnic minorities so it's a far from conclusive argument.

    I would argue unique factors at work in Harrow and Tower Hamlets but the fact is the Conservatives have taken the bigger kicking across the capital - almost wiped out in Kingston and Richmond, unable to break LD control in Sutton and losing ground in Merton quite apart from losing Wandsworth, Westminster and Barnet to Labour.

    Completely wrong

    What is happening is a repeat of Labour in Scotland and Labour in the Red Wall - and now, probably, the Tories in the South

    Parties that take their core voters for granted get punished, as the previously loyal voters realise they can vote for ANOTHER PARTY and get a load of urgent attention from a previously neglectful government. This will happen to Labour in London. Sunny Handal is right
    If that argument had a scintilla of validity, why didn't the Conservatives win Kingston, Richmond, Westminster, Wandsworth, Barnet, Gosport, Somerset, Woking etc?

    People don't just vote for the Government party at a local election on some vague notion they'll get treated better if they do. That's not of course how it works. Would those who voted Aspire in Tower Hamlets have considered the possibility they'll get more money from the Government if they do? Last time I looked, Aspire weren't running the country.

    This is yet another straw man argument to concentrate on Labour's few reverses rather than the Conservatives' many reverses, setbacks, losses, defeats and failures.

    Perhaps you can muse on those instead.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,756
    Stereodog said:

    I've been enjoying the PB Cabinet chat. As a minor poster can I be Permanent Secretary of something? I'm already a civil servant so feel myself to be qualified.

    Sorry to interject, but I think this type of political appointment to the civil service should be ruled out, such positions should only be appointed on merit following an open and fair process of selection.
    However, you could put yourself forward as minister of civil service reform?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085
    Foxy said:

    Stereodog said:

    I've been enjoying the PB Cabinet chat. As a minor poster can I be Permanent Secretary of something? I'm already a civil servant so feel myself to be qualified.

    As long as your title amuses me, go for it! What in your professional opinion is the funniest bit of Brit govt?
    Got to be the Ministry of Silly Walks.
    You, sir, are a "true" statesman, gentleman AND healer - prepare for PB government!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085
    biggles said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    Based on the name, presumably they are Soviet Unionist?
    Offshoot of Socialist Workers IIRC
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 33,489

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    PBP not confirmed on SKY or BBC websites
    I think it's SDLP who've lost a seat. What an awful result for them. And, they only held their seat in East Londonderry by 15 votes over Alliance.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 4,849
    edited May 2022
    Of all the major parties I think the Lib Dems now have the simplest set of strategic choices to make (or second simplest - the SNP have it dead easy every election). They know where to target and what demographic they are chasing: the nice hilly bits of the South East commuter belt, its equivalents in the North West and Scotland, the hinterlands of Labour’s new South Coast front, the West Country which is back in play, and pretty places in the North and Wales.

    Basically the Lib Dems should target anywhere you can go on a pleasant afternoon walk to a pub that has Nyetimber or Hattingley Valley on the wine list.

    Avoid the places with only Pinot Grigio, Kiwi Sauvignon and Chilean Chardonnay. Likewise avoid the spots where they only serve natural wines with no sulphur.

    For a taste of the future they should look at the detailed 1st round presidential maps in France. Macron’s constituency is the same as the Lib Dem constituency, with the exception of central Paris which in any case is more like a big version of Bath or Cheltenham than London. He thrived in leafy riverside suburbs, but also in most places with limestone bedrock, most winemaking regions, most regions that were never heavily industrialised except the far South, and coastal regions where there is a very large tidal range and lots of holiday homes.

    I anticipate an electoral map of Britain in 10 years or so that has little yellow splodges everywhere there is viticulture, or good quality local butchers.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 367
    darkage said:

    Stereodog said:

    I've been enjoying the PB Cabinet chat. As a minor poster can I be Permanent Secretary of something? I'm already a civil servant so feel myself to be qualified.

    Sorry to interject, but I think this type of political appointment to the civil service should be ruled out, such positions should only be appointed on merit following an open and fair process of selection.
    However, you could put yourself forward as minister of civil service reform?
    If I were a political appointee then I'd probably be put in charge of the Office for Civil Service Independence
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 4,654
    edited May 2022
    biggles said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    Based on the name, presumably they are Soviet Unionist?
    They are Trotskyists, so very much not "Soviet Unionists" in the sense Trotsky believed in permanent revolution, rather than nationalising communism hence the schism with Stalin.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115
    Outstanding reporting from the very front line in Eastern Ukraine:


    "A guy I know who was in Afghanistan twice said it was like a playground compared to eastern Ukraine.” "

    “Even if they drop a nuclear bomb on Kyiv they will not win,”

    "The Russians are fighting like Zhukov. They send wave after wave but our guys figured out they fight just like Soviets. The tank commander is always in the first tank, so we shoot it. Once you shoot the first and last tanks, they’re immobilised.”

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/inside-the-battle-on-the-eastern-front/
  • TimSTimS Posts: 4,849
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    PBP not confirmed on SKY or BBC websites
    I think it's SDLP who've lost a seat. What an awful result for them. And, they only held their seat in East Londonderry by 15 votes over Alliance.
    I think the SDLP are gone. Their natural support base are intensely relaxed about voting Alliance, so they will.
  • BalrogBalrog Posts: 207
    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Aspire shows one terrifying truth for Labour. A core constituent of their 'reliable' vote base defects en masse when given something to vote for. Could destroy them in London long term.

    Sunny Handal did an excellent thread on this. There are ominous signs for Labour amidst the London celebrations. Voting for them by en bloc ethnic minorities is coming to an end


    “Some quick thoughts on Labour getting thrashed in Tower Hamlets, Harrow and Croydon.

    These parts of London have one thing in common - large proportion of ethnic minorities.

    And they rebelled against Labour”

    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1522910473011740672?s=21&t=vcK9-hydFRDbGJHNdWBKeQ
    Labour has a habit of losing from unassailable strength - Scotland, Blaenau Gwent, Tower Hamlets, Bethnal Green, The Red Wall.
    They are very easy to turn your back on and have been since the post Wilson/Callaghan era
    I don't think one can generalise. I don't know why Labour lost Croydon.

    The politics of Tower Hamlets are unique. As to Harrow, it's simply a case of professional voters of Indian background gradually drifting towards the Conservatives, as the Jews started doing, fifty years ago.
    Croydon is because of the council going bankrupt in 2020 and then scrapping the £24,000 meals on wheels when you're paying the head of the council 613,000 a year
    Is that a typo? I know some council heads get above 200k, but 600k?
    Slightly off topic, but it is not just council heads. There is contract work in some Council planning departments at the moment that is very well paid. IE: 150K per year with contracts deemed (by the Council) to be outside of IR35 at head of department level. 100k+ for an interim manager or even just very senior officer level, on the same terms (eg outside of IR35) is common. And even with all that money on offer, there is still a lack of candidates.

    £150k pa is less than £750 a day. It's not an amazing rate for an experienced consultant, and you would need to be reasonably experienced to get a head of department role.

    At one stage I took on a set of contractors as part of taking over a contract for a central government department, about 10 years ago now. They weren't particularly impressive but we're getting between 600 and 800 per day. One thing that pissed me off is that some of them wanted to be paid weekly. What kind of idiot do you have to be to not be able to manage your cash flow for a month if you are paid over 130k pa!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 38,805
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    They are all going to flee to Poland?


    Visegrád 24
    @visegrad24
    ·
    27m
    In an interview for La Repubblica, the Deputy Speaker of the Russian Parliament, Pyotr Tolstoy, stated that Russia won’t stop its “special military operation” in Ukraine until the Russian Army reaches the Polish border.

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1523025055273619456

    Delusional. By Autumn the Russian Army will be in Russia, in prison camps or in graves.
    They will be shot or imprisoned if they go back to Russia?

    Well, it worked for Stalin.
    If they go back, or if they stay in Ukraine the same ending.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 367
    While I'm on public service anecdotes. When I worked in Parliament a foreign parliamentarian phoned a colleague who worked for a Select Committe and asked to speak to the boss to arrange a meeting with the Chair. He told them he'd put them through to the Committee Clerk. They said "I don't want a damned Clerk (or words to that effect) I want to speak to someone important"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115
    Can I be the chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster please?

    I like a good title and I used to live near there.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 367
    While I'm on public service anecdotes. When I worked in Parliament a foreign parliamentarian phoned a colleague who worked for a Select Committe and asked to speak to the boss to arrange a meeting with the Chair. He told them he'd put them through to the Committee Clerk. They said "I don't want a damned Clerk (or words to that effect) I want to speak to someone important"
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 51,353
    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946
    edited May 2022
    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 44,367

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    See @HYUFD? Told you they were "Progressive"!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 31,630

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 9,057
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    Sunil at Transport, surely!
    You can have it mate.

    I've had enough dealings with the DfT to last a lifetime.
    Hey, I'm willing to take on the DfE. Admittedly only for the pleasure of sacking them all.
    Ditto DBIS. We have this discussion regularly about who is worse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 33,489

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    Yes, I agree. They are hyper-woke. Given a choice, I'd much rather vote SDLP than Alliance. I would give Alliance a preference, but only to keep out Sinn Fein.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 37,239

    Outstanding reporting from the very front line in Eastern Ukraine:


    "A guy I know who was in Afghanistan twice said it was like a playground compared to eastern Ukraine.” "

    “Even if they drop a nuclear bomb on Kyiv they will not win,”

    "The Russians are fighting like Zhukov. They send wave after wave but our guys figured out they fight just like Soviets. The tank commander is always in the first tank, so we shoot it. Once you shoot the first and last tanks, they’re immobilised.”

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/inside-the-battle-on-the-eastern-front/

    Not like Zhukov insofar as his tendency to win went.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085

    Outstanding reporting from the very front line in Eastern Ukraine:


    "A guy I know who was in Afghanistan twice said it was like a playground compared to eastern Ukraine.” "

    “Even if they drop a nuclear bomb on Kyiv they will not win,”

    "The Russians are fighting like Zhukov. They send wave after wave but our guys figured out they fight just like Soviets. The tank commander is always in the first tank, so we shoot it. Once you shoot the first and last tanks, they’re immobilised.”

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/inside-the-battle-on-the-eastern-front/

    Close to same method employed as by Sergeant York in Meuse-Argonne in 1918 against German infantry. Shot the first guy coming forward, next the last in line, then started picking off the rest from the rear forward.

    After shooting a bunch of Germans, & capturing over a hundred, York said that he'd learned the trick hunting turkeys back in Tennessee.

    Maybe the Ukrainian's watched that old Gary Cooper movie?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 51,353
    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 44,367

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
    Catholic nationalists or Protestant nationalists?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

    Surely, just a honest seeker of the truth. 😉
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 38,805
    edited May 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
    Theres a lot of it about.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 26,191
    Think we can hold fire on the Foyle result.
    There is a slight possibility that SDLP transfers will put PBP and UUP above the DUP and eliminate them.
    But that would still give the fourth seat to SDLP. And DUP transfers would see the UUP home against PBP for fifth.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 44,367
    10pm and both BBC and SKY think only 3 seats have been filled in Foyle.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 31,630

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
    Sectarian = religious. You know, like Tories and the C of E.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 26,191

    Outstanding reporting from the very front line in Eastern Ukraine:


    "A guy I know who was in Afghanistan twice said it was like a playground compared to eastern Ukraine.” "

    “Even if they drop a nuclear bomb on Kyiv they will not win,”

    "The Russians are fighting like Zhukov. They send wave after wave but our guys figured out they fight just like Soviets. The tank commander is always in the first tank, so we shoot it. Once you shoot the first and last tanks, they’re immobilised.”

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/inside-the-battle-on-the-eastern-front/

    Not like Zhukov insofar as his tendency to win went.
    Yeah. He fucked Germany in case anyone forgot.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

    And right on cue Diane Abbott says tonight that Starmer may have to step down if he receives a FPN
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 31,630

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
    Catholic nationalists or Protestant nationalists?
    Well, quite. *rolls eyes*

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 10,290

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

    One thought.

    If you believe that something genuinely seriously bad has happened, you take it to the police.

    If you think that something that looks seriously bad (but isn't) has happened, you take it to the papers.

    I don't know if what happened in Durham broke the rules that applied at that time or not. And I'm of the view that if Starmer, Rayner or others get fined, their position is untenable. If that means that they can take down Johnson on their way out, that's a valuable final service for a grateful nation.

    But it's also possible that Labour's biggest sin is to fail to bow down before the gods of the Daily Mail. And whilst that's definitely a problem for a party that wants to win elections, I can't help but admire them for that. Giving in to bullies never works in the long run.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 9,057
    Alistair said:

    kjh said:

    @Alistair fpt NP-complete:

    Well that is a new one on me and it took me a few minutes to work out how it worked and it looks very interesting. More info from anyone please? First thought is if there are say 6 candidates it will take a long time to vote and there will be matches where I don't have an opinion and I can't reasonably be expected to have an opinion between certain candidates.

    @kjh
    There is a very long wiki page on all the possible implementations

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_method
    Cheers
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 33,489
    dixiedean said:

    Outstanding reporting from the very front line in Eastern Ukraine:


    "A guy I know who was in Afghanistan twice said it was like a playground compared to eastern Ukraine.” "

    “Even if they drop a nuclear bomb on Kyiv they will not win,”

    "The Russians are fighting like Zhukov. They send wave after wave but our guys figured out they fight just like Soviets. The tank commander is always in the first tank, so we shoot it. Once you shoot the first and last tanks, they’re immobilised.”

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/inside-the-battle-on-the-eastern-front/

    Not like Zhukov insofar as his tendency to win went.
    Yeah. He fucked Germany in case anyone forgot.
    Along with some twat in a waistcoat.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 10,767
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    What’s the betting on first one out 😆
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 33,489
    dixiedean said:

    Think we can hold fire on the Foyle result.
    There is a slight possibility that SDLP transfers will put PBP and UUP above the DUP and eliminate them.
    But that would still give the fourth seat to SDLP. And DUP transfers would see the UUP home against PBP for fifth.

    Yes, the Unionists are 1,000 over their quota, and it would take massive refusal to transfer to prevent their getting a seat.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 1,391
    ydoethur said: "IIRC (and I don't have Nove to hand) War Communism caused an 87% contraction in the size of the Russian economy..."

    About right, according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_communism

    What helped them escape from that collapse was finally agreeing to accept aid, mostly from the United States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Relief_Administration
    In 1921, to ease famine in Russia, the ARA's director in Europe, Walter Lyman Brown, began negotiating with the Soviet People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs, Maxim Litvinov, in Riga, Latvia. An agreement was reached on August 21, 1921, and an additional implementation agreement was signed by Brown and People's Commissar for Foreign Trade Leonid Krasin on December 30, 1921. The U.S. Congress appropriated $20,000,000 for relief under the Russian Famine Relief Act of late 1921.

    American Relief Administration operations in Russia in 1922
    At its peak, the ARA employed 300 Americans, more than 120,000 Russians and fed 10.5 million people daily. Its Russian operations were headed by Col. William N. Haskell. The Medical Division of the ARA functioned from November 1921 to June 1923 and helped overcome the typhus epidemic then ravaging Russia.
    I don't recall Putin having thanked us for that help, at least not recently.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 26,191

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
    Only in the sense that they see themselves as Irish.
    They are hardly militant or unreasonable about it. In fact. They took a lot of grief and violence from their "own" side. As well as the other.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 44,430
    Video of the Ukrainian air force bombing Snake Island:

    https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1523027490230444035
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

    One thought.

    If you believe that something genuinely seriously bad has happened, you take it to the police.

    If you think that something that looks seriously bad (but isn't) has happened, you take it to the papers.

    I don't know if what happened in Durham broke the rules that applied at that time or not. And I'm of the view that if Starmer, Rayner or others get fined, their position is untenable. If that means that they can take down Johnson on their way out, that's a valuable final service for a grateful nation.

    But it's also possible that Labour's biggest sin is to fail to bow down before the gods of the Daily Mail. And whilst that's definitely a problem for a party that wants to win elections, I can't help but admire them for that. Giving in to bullies never works in the long run.
    You do know it was an independent Durham councillor who lost his mother who made the formal complaint to Durham Police which resulted in this detective led investigation
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 44,367
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
    Only in the sense that they see themselves as Irish.
    They are hardly militant or unreasonable about it. In fact. They took a lot of grief and violence from their "own" side. As well as the other.
    SNP = Scottish, not Irish.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 10,290

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    What’s the betting on first one out 😆
    Bear in mind that resigning because of being caught in a scandal is so pre-2019, darling.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115
    Hmm. Odd. Seems a Russian military analyst has been allowed on state tv this evening to say that a mobilization wont solve the problem as it is about out-date equipment versus NATO-supplied kit.

    One of Vlad's moves or is the poor guy about to bungled into a police van for a long drive north?


  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085
    Stereodog said:

    While I'm on public service anecdotes. When I worked in Parliament a foreign parliamentarian phoned a colleague who worked for a Select Committe and asked to speak to the boss to arrange a meeting with the Chair. He told them he'd put them through to the Committee Clerk. They said "I don't want a damned Clerk (or words to that effect) I want to speak to someone important"

    Couple of decades back here in Washington State we had a state Insurance Commissioner, a statewide elected office, who was a liberal Democrat with good but hardly rock-solid ties to labor. She was ambitious to advance higher politically.

    She was also of somewhat mercurial disposition. Which she displayed one day, to a landscaping crew that was cutting the grass or suchlike outside of her office. She lit into the guy in charge, in high dudgeon and full flow.

    Which turned out to be a bit of a faux pas, as the man in question happened to be a member of the board of local (state capital) branch of the state employees union. Oops.

    Not just that, but the story went around like wildfire in Olympia, small city that's WA State capital, a company town where the company is the state government. And also seat of Thurston County, a reliable Democratic stronghold on Election Day.

    But NOT for Insurance Commissioner when she ran for Attorney General the next year. When she LOST Thurston Co . . . and with it election, to the Republican victor.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    What’s the betting on first one out 😆
    Bear in mind that resigning because of being caught in a scandal is so pre-2019, darling.
    Correction - shouldn't that be "beer in mind . . ."?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115
    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 26,191
    edited May 2022

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    SNP are sectarian? Huge if true.
    They are a nationalist party.
    Only in the sense that they see themselves as Irish.
    They are hardly militant or unreasonable about it. In fact. They took a lot of grief and violence from their "own" side. As well as the other.
    SNP = Scottish, not Irish.
    Oops. Mixed up two conversations there. Thought @Casino_Royale was talking about the SDLP.
    I blame a late election night. Early election morning. Red wine. Curry, cake. And Durham Police. Besides everyone broke lockdown rules didn't they...
    What do you mean I lost 400+ seats?
    Labour are in crisis.
    I mean. They're just the Party of London.
    Who are about to be wiped out in London.
    Err...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 110,243

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    He did refer to the memo leaked to the mail on sunday

    Who is leaking and why ?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,166

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Yes, with that memo the Mail have a smoking gun. Don't see how everyone at the event doesn't get a FPN.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 33,489
    HYUFD said:

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
    But if he did, and Boris had to go, too, that would be a win/win.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 110,243

    Sean_F said:

    People before Profit has got in in Foyle at the expense of the DUP.

    How did that happen, the UUP and DUP were well above a quota between them,
    If I were in Northern Ireland I'd have voted UUP.

    Much as I like the idea of the Alliance I can't support their policy platform. Three of their top priority bills relate to identity politics - single equality, hate crime and conversion therapy - and another one is focussed on a hunting ban.

    They are a non-sectarian SNP as far as I can tell.
    See @HYUFD? Told you they were "Progressive"!
    They are not however Irish Nationalist
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    What’s the betting on first one out 😆
    @ydoethur’s cabinet is far too left-wind and middle class. Here’s mine:

    PM - me (well, someone has to do it)
    For Sec - Leon
    CoE - Bartholomew Robert’s
    Equalities / Home Sec - Cyclefree
    SOS for the Dominions, sorry devolved Parliaments - HYFUD
    Culture - Leon
    BEIS - RCS
    Health - Foxy (he is the most qualified) Defence - Topping (Dura would give in to Russia)
    Education - Malmesbury
    Deregulation - State_Go_Away
    DEFRA - Tlg86
    Justice - DavidL
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085

    ydoethur said: "IIRC (and I don't have Nove to hand) War Communism caused an 87% contraction in the size of the Russian economy..."

    About right, according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_communism

    What helped them escape from that collapse was finally agreeing to accept aid, mostly from the United States: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Relief_Administration

    In 1921, to ease famine in Russia, the ARA's director in Europe, Walter Lyman Brown, began negotiating with the Soviet People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs, Maxim Litvinov, in Riga, Latvia. An agreement was reached on August 21, 1921, and an additional implementation agreement was signed by Brown and People's Commissar for Foreign Trade Leonid Krasin on December 30, 1921. The U.S. Congress appropriated $20,000,000 for relief under the Russian Famine Relief Act of late 1921.

    American Relief Administration operations in Russia in 1922
    At its peak, the ARA employed 300 Americans, more than 120,000 Russians and fed 10.5 million people daily. Its Russian operations were headed by Col. William N. Haskell. The Medical Division of the ARA functioned from November 1921 to June 1923 and helped overcome the typhus epidemic then ravaging Russia.
    I don't recall Putin having thanked us for that help, at least not recently.

    Don't hold yer breath! However, we can all thank Herbert Hoover, who was leadership & driving force behind ARA.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946
    HYUFD said:

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
    Sorry but that is just trying to excuse Boris which is untenable
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,166

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    What’s the betting on first one out 😆
    Probably me, I think I'd sack everyone who currently works for the treasury and sack the BoE governor.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 12,366

    Hmm. Odd. Seems a Russian military analyst has been allowed on state tv this evening to say that a mobilization wont solve the problem as it is about out-date equipment versus NATO-supplied kit.

    One of Vlad's moves or is the poor guy about to bungled into a police van for a long drive north?

    Laying the groundwork to explain a Russian defeat - if it happens. Expectations management, if you will. If the Ukrainians chase the Russian Army out of Ukraine then I'd expect the Kremlin to claim a great victory in deterring NATO from crossing the Russian border.

    And then, of course, calling on the populace to make great sacrifices to help modernise and rebuild the Russian Army.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,786
    dixiedean said:

    Outstanding reporting from the very front line in Eastern Ukraine:


    "A guy I know who was in Afghanistan twice said it was like a playground compared to eastern Ukraine.” "

    “Even if they drop a nuclear bomb on Kyiv they will not win,”

    "The Russians are fighting like Zhukov. They send wave after wave but our guys figured out they fight just like Soviets. The tank commander is always in the first tank, so we shoot it. Once you shoot the first and last tanks, they’re immobilised.”

    https://unherd.com/2022/05/inside-the-battle-on-the-eastern-front/

    Not like Zhukov insofar as his tendency to win went.
    Yeah. He fucked Germany in case anyone forgot.
    And Beria. Putin needs his Zhukov.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,756
    Balrog said:

    darkage said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Aspire shows one terrifying truth for Labour. A core constituent of their 'reliable' vote base defects en masse when given something to vote for. Could destroy them in London long term.

    Sunny Handal did an excellent thread on this. There are ominous signs for Labour amidst the London celebrations. Voting for them by en bloc ethnic minorities is coming to an end


    “Some quick thoughts on Labour getting thrashed in Tower Hamlets, Harrow and Croydon.

    These parts of London have one thing in common - large proportion of ethnic minorities.

    And they rebelled against Labour”

    https://twitter.com/sunny_hundal/status/1522910473011740672?s=21&t=vcK9-hydFRDbGJHNdWBKeQ
    Labour has a habit of losing from unassailable strength - Scotland, Blaenau Gwent, Tower Hamlets, Bethnal Green, The Red Wall.
    They are very easy to turn your back on and have been since the post Wilson/Callaghan era
    I don't think one can generalise. I don't know why Labour lost Croydon.

    The politics of Tower Hamlets are unique. As to Harrow, it's simply a case of professional voters of Indian background gradually drifting towards the Conservatives, as the Jews started doing, fifty years ago.
    Croydon is because of the council going bankrupt in 2020 and then scrapping the £24,000 meals on wheels when you're paying the head of the council 613,000 a year
    Is that a typo? I know some council heads get above 200k, but 600k?
    Slightly off topic, but it is not just council heads. There is contract work in some Council planning departments at the moment that is very well paid. IE: 150K per year with contracts deemed (by the Council) to be outside of IR35 at head of department level. 100k+ for an interim manager or even just very senior officer level, on the same terms (eg outside of IR35) is common. And even with all that money on offer, there is still a lack of candidates.

    £150k pa is less than £750 a day. It's not an amazing rate for an experienced consultant, and you would need to be reasonably experienced to get a head of department role.

    At one stage I took on a set of contractors as part of taking over a contract for a central government department, about 10 years ago now. They weren't particularly impressive but we're getting between 600 and 800 per day. One thing that pissed me off is that some of them wanted to be paid weekly. What kind of idiot do you have to be to not be able to manage your cash flow for a month if you are paid over 130k pa!
    It depends what you are doing. In planning, it is typically a substitute for a permanent member of staff, in some cases they are having to pay contractors over twice the rate for permanent staff. When you look in to it, the reason is that typically the Council has had some 'reorganisation', obliterated the team that existed before, and now find that no-one is there to do the work, and the promising youngster they hired to run the department has quit to do something else. So it is a crisis, and whoever they appoint to sort it out needs to tell the senior management and Councillors things they don't want to hear, and they won't ever be thanked for it!


  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
    But if he did, and Boris had to go, too, that would be a win/win.
    Johnson is going nowhere no matter what happens to Starmer.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 86,096
    Stereodog said:

    While I'm on public service anecdotes. When I worked in Parliament a foreign parliamentarian phoned a colleague who worked for a Select Committe and asked to speak to the boss to arrange a meeting with the Chair. He told them he'd put them through to the Committee Clerk. They said "I don't want a damned Clerk (or words to that effect) I want to speak to someone important"

    Poor understanding there indeed.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
    But if he did, and Boris had to go, too, that would be a win/win.
    Johnson is going nowhere no matter what happens to Starmer.

    This from Hodges

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1522985116582170624?t=Yu9Oh_mg6pzvfeBraqAQ8A&s=19
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,166
    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,489
    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Between the two of them now they just need to have been ambushed by a starter.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 26,191
    It is of course entirely plausible that SDLP and PBP combine to transfer enough to see the UUP take the fifth seat ahead of the DUP.
    Leaving the DUP on 24.
    But I wouldn't wager much on it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946
    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Both BBC and Sky reporting on this and it does not look good

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 10,290
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
    But if he did, and Boris had to go, too, that would be a win/win.
    Not really.

    If Johnson goes, the Conservatives have a significant problem- nobody else can plausibly hold the current Conservative coalition together and be PM. Go on- who takes over? Truss? Wallace? Hunt?

    The problem exists for Labour as well, but it's much less stark, because they are choosing a LotO. And Starmer hasn't torched any potential sucessors/rivals. Besides-let's be honest, Starmer was chosen to lose with dignity in 2024, not to be the next PM. Starmer's fall helps Labour by accelerating Project Rebuild. And all the evidence is that Labour have learnt the lesson of not letting a lefty populist within a sniff of the final round. So it's not even a win for followers of the Cult of St Jeremy The Martyr.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 18,058

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

    Is there anything untoward? It's exactly the sort of itinery everyone who works on location would get daily. How else would they do it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115

    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Both BBC and Sky reporting on this and it does not look good

    He can't say he was "ambushed" by curry because there was a memo outlining the timetable for the day which indicated curry would be eaten at the end of the working day.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115

    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Between the two of them now they just need to have been ambushed by a starter.
    Ed Davey next up with the ambushed by starter?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085
    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    In USA phrase "ambushed by curry" generally has whole different meaning . . .
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,166
    Roger said:

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

    Is there anything untoward? It's exactly the sort of itinery everyone who works on location would get daily. How else would they do it?
    Because a pre-arranged curry and booze after work would have been breaking the law at that point in time. A stupid law, but one which he supported and voted in favour of.

    I can't believe this could be how it ends for Starmer. The Mail ploughing a lone furrow on a post work beer and suddenly they could have a huge scalp.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 12,085
    Re: Foyle, am assuming that there's likely recounting and double-checking occurring, because the numbers for final eliminations & seat(s) are VERY tight?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,985
    I have a feeling Starmer might resign before the conclusion of the Durham police investigation. We are though living in a bizarre situation where the PM lied continually for weeks, there were countless parties in no 10 and yet seems to be swanning around without a care in the world .

  • TazTaz Posts: 7,588

    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Both BBC and Sky reporting on this and it does not look good

    Itv news too. Second piece on the news after Mariupol. The new information is said to contradict their initial story. It doesn’t look great neither did lying about Rayner being there.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946

    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Both BBC and Sky reporting on this and it does not look good

    He can't say he was "ambushed" by curry because there was a memo outlining the timetable for the day which indicated curry would be eaten at the end of the working day.

    And it clearly shows at 22.00 > 22.15 - walk to Radisson Blu so Starmer saying they were to continue working after the curry really raises questions about his veracity
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
    But if he did, and Boris had to go, too, that would be a win/win.
    Not really.

    If Johnson goes, the Conservatives have a significant problem- nobody else can plausibly hold the current Conservative coalition together and be PM. Go on- who takes over? Truss? Wallace? Hunt?

    The problem exists for Labour as well, but it's much less stark, because they are choosing a LotO. And Starmer hasn't torched any potential sucessors/rivals. Besides-let's be honest, Starmer was chosen to lose with dignity in 2024, not to be the next PM. Starmer's fall helps Labour by accelerating Project Rebuild. And all the evidence is that Labour have learnt the lesson of not letting a lefty populist within a sniff of the final round. So it's not even a win for followers of the Cult of St Jeremy The Martyr.
    Are we sure the party has got itself totally bomb proof from a populist Corbynite re-run?
  • FarooqFarooq Posts: 8,426
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    The only way you could make this worse would be by adding me
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 38,805

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Chris Mason of BBC says it is very, very serious for Starmer.

    Starmer won't go, the Tories obviously won't push for it as if he went the pressure on Boris could be untenable
    But if he did, and Boris had to go, too, that would be a win/win.
    Not really.

    If Johnson goes, the Conservatives have a significant problem- nobody else can plausibly hold the current Conservative coalition together and be PM. Go on- who takes over? Truss? Wallace? Hunt?

    The problem exists for Labour as well, but it's much less stark, because they are choosing a LotO. And Starmer hasn't torched any potential sucessors/rivals. Besides-let's be honest, Starmer was chosen to lose with dignity in 2024, not to be the next PM. Starmer's fall helps Labour by accelerating Project Rebuild. And all the evidence is that Labour have learnt the lesson of not letting a lefty populist within a sniff of the final round. So it's not even a win for followers of the Cult of St Jeremy The Martyr.
    Are we sure the party has got itself totally bomb proof from a populist Corbynite re-run?
    Yes. In the unlikely event of Starmer going, he will be replaced by someone better. Like when Blair took over from Smith.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115

    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Both BBC and Sky reporting on this and it does not look good

    He can't say he was "ambushed" by curry because there was a memo outlining the timetable for the day which indicated curry would be eaten at the end of the working day.

    And it clearly shows at 22.00 > 22.15 - walk to Radisson Blu so Starmer saying they were to continue working after the curry really raises questions about his veracity
    Well, to be honest he could be telling truth on that one. Maybe the timetable said 'head back to hotel' but there was so much to do they ploughed on.

    Of course no enterprising journalist will find a way to get the time of comings and goings at the Radisson on the night in question will they...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 10,767
    MrEd said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    nico679 said:

    I think a big mistake Starmer made was calling for resignations because of an investigation rather than at least waiting to the end of that .

    The Tories will be enjoying this but ironically they don’t want Starmer to resign . We all know Johnson is utterly shameless and his right wing paper friends will do their best to spin things but if Starmer goes the first thing most of the public will ask is why is Johnson still there .

    What happens if he gets more FPNs , what if the Sue Gray report is damning .

    Make the point that Johnson has broken the laws he created and should resign because he lied to parliament about doing to. I always said lying to parliament was the biggie.

    If we come out of this with Johnson still as PM and Starmer gone as the Met slap out a stack of FPNs and the Grey report details Johnson partying at the "I sacked Cummings" event I will likely wee myself laughing.
    Sorry that's rubbish - most ordinary people dont give a chit he lied to parliament , its that he made laws for them he could not keep himself.So he should go and Starmer should go given he voted for them as well.Maybe in future it will mean politicians think twice about imposing stupid laws on people because its the "right thing to do"
    I'm the only person not surprised by it but then I never took the Covid laws literally myself.

    I ignored the pettifogging interpretations that I found irrational or silly, and met my parents several times outside for walks and chats.

    Sure, I broke the laws. i sat on park benches with friends when that was literally (I think) illegal. Then-wife and I had a pizza in a house with another couple near the end of lockdown 1. Etc. Personally, however, I didn’t have a massive party at my home - Boris - nor did I order curry for 30 with a ton of booze and get loaded - Starmer. Nor did I, at the same time, impose stringent laws on the rest of British humanity, which I had no intention of obeying - Boris - and nor did I whine that these laws should be stricter and go on longer - Starmer - who had no intention of obeying

    Fuckers. I despise them

    I’d be quite happy to get rid of the entire House of Commons, as is, Tory, LD and Labour alike, and SNP, all of them, and start over
    How about a Cabinet of PBers, with a Parliament of the rest?

    TSE - PM
    Cyclefree - Home Secretary
    MaxPB - Chancellor
    BlancheLivermore - Foreign Secretary
    Dura Ace - Defence
    Casino Royale - Transport
    Me - Education
    Foxy - Health
    DavidL - Justice
    Moon rabbit - Minister for Sport
    Leon - Culture
    Eabhal - Scotland
    Y Bardd Cwsc - Wales
    Beibherli C - Northern Ireland
    Gallowgate - Levelling Up.
    Malmesbury - Leader of the House and responsible for the ONS assisted by tlg86

    Just think how much better a government that would be than this one...
    What’s the betting on first one out 😆
    @ydoethur’s cabinet is far too left-wind and middle class. Here’s mine:

    PM - me (well, someone has to do it)
    For Sec - Leon
    CoE - Bartholomew Robert’s
    Equalities / Home Sec - Cyclefree
    SOS for the Dominions, sorry devolved Parliaments - HYFUD
    Culture - Leon
    BEIS - RCS
    Health - Foxy (he is the most qualified) Defence - Topping (Dura would give in to Russia)
    Education - Malmesbury
    Deregulation - State_Go_Away
    DEFRA - Tlg86
    Justice - DavidL
    Okay PM. How do we make everyone feel respected and listened to?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 26,191
    edited May 2022
    He's committed a cardinal sin. Being a plausible Labour PM.
    However. He isn't very good.
    Boris is a tactical political savant unmatched.
    Unfortunately, I fear he's also a strategic buffoon.
    I held no truck with the idea we were headed for a '97 before this weekend. Now I'm not so sure. It may not happen next time, but Big Dog is leading the Tories into the wilderness for a generation.
    There is no suggestion that the fact that they've lost 1 in 5 councillors has even been cause for a moment's reflection.
    Just destroy the prevailing threat as it presents.
    Just like Sunak.
    Meanwhile, his own popularity just falls and falls.
    Because it can't actually be that he might possibly be at all inadequate.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115
    nico679 said:

    I have a feeling Starmer might resign before the conclusion of the Durham police investigation. We are though living in a bizarre situation where the PM lied continually for weeks, there were countless parties in no 10 and yet seems to be swanning around without a care in the world .

    Perhaps Starmer should ask PM at next PMQs: "Do you think I should resign?"
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115
    dixiedean said:

    He's committed a cardinal sin. Being a plausible Labour PM.
    However. He isn't very good.
    Boris is a tactical political savant unmatched.
    Unfortunately, I fear he's also a strategic buffoon.
    I held no truck with the idea we were headed for a '97 before this weekend. No I'm not so sure. It may not happen next time, but Big Dog is leading the Tories into the wilderness for a generation.
    There is no suggestion that the fact that they've lost 1 in 5 councillors has even been cause for a moments reflection.
    Just destroy the prevailing threat as it presents.
    Just like Sunak.
    Meanwhile, your own popularity just falls.
    Because it can't actually just be that you might possibly be at all inadequate.

    Johnson cares not a jot what happens to anyone else including tory councillors.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 55,115

    MaxPB said:

    The source added: “In my view, it was an event that is akin to when the prime minister and Rishi Sunak were ambushed by a birthday cake.”

    From The Times. By the end of Sunday the Labour line will be "ambushed by curry" just as predicted by yours truly yesterday morning.

    Both BBC and Sky reporting on this and it does not look good

    He can't say he was "ambushed" by curry because there was a memo outlining the timetable for the day which indicated curry would be eaten at the end of the working day.

    And it clearly shows at 22.00 > 22.15 - walk to Radisson Blu so Starmer saying they were to continue working after the curry really raises questions about his veracity
    I’d like to coin a new phrase for this scandal - petardgate.
    :lol: - brilliant!!!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 56,946
    Roger said:

    Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday not good for Starmer and Rayner

    https://twitter.com/ChrisClarksonMP/status/1522987238480564224?t=w2oLmW-oxmwnv6ewXcfWmw&s=19

    Is this a conspiracy by Corbynites and the left to discredited Starmer for his move to the centre ?

    Well someone leaked it and someone must have a motive.

    Is there anything untoward? It's exactly the sort of itinery everyone who works on location would get daily. How else would they do it?
    What labour should really worry about is who is leaking this and their motive

    I have already suggested this could be a reaction from Corbynites and the left in response to Starmer's move to the centre

    The could just have much wide implications for labour
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 2,985

    nico679 said:

    I have a feeling Starmer might resign before the conclusion of the Durham police investigation. We are though living in a bizarre situation where the PM lied continually for weeks, there were countless parties in no 10 and yet seems to be swanning around without a care in the world .

    Perhaps Starmer should ask PM at next PMQs: "Do you think I should resign?"
    The Tories want Starmer to stay now he’s damaged goods . It will be interesting to see how the Johnson fans in here spin the fact he won’t resign after Starmer has to .
This discussion has been closed.