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The overnight scorecard looks bad for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Lots of local Tories taking a swipe at the PM after losses. @alexwickham has this handy breakdown. https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1522469361860198402/photo/1
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    At 2240 PM told Tory MPs WhatsApp: “I would like PERSONALLY to thank all the colleagues who have put on such an amazing shift in the last few weeks and days. I know how much you have been doing and it is massively appreciated. Onwards!”

    In 2hrs since there’s been just 1 reply 😬

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1522357921744666625
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,555

    As a point of reference, this is how the Daily Mail framed things in England prior to the election ...
    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1521812569442467841

    So far looks bad for the Tories and slight progress for Labour by their metric.
  • Jonathan said:

    Starmer should be be pretty happy this morning. There is significant progress since 2019.

    Afetr 12 years of Tory Rule and 8 months of terrible press for the Government these are not great results for Labour and are very much in line with the By-Elections of the past year.

    ROFL first victory in elections in years and this is three years after losing in a landslide and people asking when the Labour Party would end.

    A year after Starmee being finished.

    A year after people asking how will Labour ever win again?

    We know, they change their coalition.
    Seriously why do you expect the ruling Government of 12 years to do well in Local Elections?

    In 1999 Blair lost 32 Councils after just 2 years in power and just 2 years later he won another thumping majority.

    Governments nearly always perform badly in Local Elections, this Government has had the worst press possible for the last 8 months, Labours performance is nowhere near what it should be.
    They took Barnet, Westminster and Wandsworth.

    I know hating London is cool now but that is historic and unprecedented. And shows the Tories are losing in traditional voters what they gained in the Red Wall, which is going back to Labour anyway.

    They generally could end up on less than 150 seats. And yet nobody here wants to talk about it
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Curtice says just now on 5 live "Labour are down on 2018 outside London and that the narrative Labour are trying to push that they are doing better than under Corbyn isn't backed by the results so far"

    Labour will be devastated, just devastated, that they have lost council seats to the Greens and the LibDems.

    Truly their hopes of tactical voting at the next election to kick out the Tories is completely up in smoke.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,581

    Some thoughts so far (after 5 hours' sleep...) -

    * As many predicted, the Tories are getting slaughtered in the South but holding their own in the North compared with 2018
    * But on 2018 results, Labour would have held most of the Red Wall, albeit with reduced majorities. Labour's Red Wall meltdown came in 2019, when Leavers got fed up with Brexit delay. In 2021, the Tories were actually making substantial progress in the North; Labour has reversed that and is closer to 2018 level, which would make a massive difference in terms of seats.
    * London is becoming a Labour fortress now (with a few exceptions like Kensington and Chelsea, Enfield and Merton). But outside London, the Southern votes are swinging to whoever is the obvious non-Tory, with LibDems and Greens both benefiting hugely.
    - Labour and the LibDems do have something of a de facto tactical voting alliance at grass roots level. The Greens are not part of it and could be real spoilers in a Ge in some seats.
    - The Tories risk having their votes in the wrong places. Doing quite well in the Red Wall while losing most of the seats, and melting down in the South and East is a formula for disaster.

    I agree that this represents a return of the anyone-but-the-Tory vote across the South. I'm not sure I completely buy the "almost back to par" story in Red Wall seats. Not as bad, no, but not winning crucial seats.

    In the South, Labour benefit from voters simply wanting to give the Tories a beating.

    In the Midlands and the North, they clearly need to tell a story to win those voters back. "Not being Tories" is not enough on its own.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,925
    .

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    You only had a choice of three parties because of First Past The Post. As long as that continues, parties are inevitably going to make (often informal) pacts to maximise their seat tallies.
    Rubbish.

    And people who claim to dislike FPTP because of a supposed or real lack of democracy, who then support electoral pacts, are being inconsistent IMV.
    And IMV, that's rubbish. :smile:
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,325

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    Is it really a pact or a case of targetting limited resources in the most effective way possible.

    In any electoral contest would labour really pour resources into a Tory/Lib Dem marginal.

    At a couple of elections in the early 2000s our Lib Dem candidate spent most of his time campaigning in the nearest winnable seat.

    Davey played down a pact. As the new Labour talking head on GMB said, people don't like pacts, aside from the FBPE/PrOgReSsIvE aLlIaNcE brigadet on twitter.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518

    Barnet! Wandsworth! Westminster! 🎉🎉🎉🌹🌹🌹

    I wonder what will happen to my council tax.
    During the last few years - which were not easy - the council kept their impost flat while Sadiq Khan maxed out the increase he was allowed (high single digits each year IIRC)
    There's more to life than council tax - it's one consideration, but as we see not the decisive one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    The loss of Wandsworth will be felt most keenly by Conservatives

    It was reportedly former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s favourite council

    Outgoing Tory leader Ravi Govindia said the "issue" of Boris Johnson was raised “consistently" by voters

    http://bloom.bg/3Fk0gDc https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1522470069837697025/photo/1
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,649

    BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Top election morning Playbook from @EleniCourea including knives out for Tory party chairman Oliver Dowden 🔪 https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1522470432439513089/photo/1
  • Scott_xP said:

    The loss of Wandsworth will be felt most keenly by Conservatives

    It was reportedly former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s favourite council

    Outgoing Tory leader Ravi Govindia said the "issue" of Boris Johnson was raised “consistently" by voters

    http://bloom.bg/3Fk0gDc https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1522470069837697025/photo/1

    It’s so odd though, because so many insisted this was just a bubble issue.
  • NEW: Conservatives LOSE West Oxfordshire to NOC. David Cameron’s old patch. Tories have controlled it since 2000- lose their maj thanks to Lib Dem gains.

    This is how the Tories end up on less than 200 seats
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    You only had a choice of three parties because of First Past The Post. As long as that continues, parties are inevitably going to make (often informal) pacts to maximise their seat tallies.
    Rubbish.

    And people who claim to dislike FPTP because of a supposed or real lack of democracy, who then support electoral pacts, are being inconsistent IMV.
    Why?

    I’m a LibDem member. My views are much, much closer to Labour or the Greens than they are to the Conservatives.

    An electoral pact means that a council close to my views is much more likely to be elected. And, in fact, has been, in Oxfordshire last year and in West Oxfordshire this morning.

    How is that inconsistent?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,925

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer should be be pretty happy this morning. There is significant progress since 2019.

    Afetr 12 years of Tory Rule and 8 months of terrible press for the Government these are not great results for Labour and are very much in line with the By-Elections of the past year.

    ROFL first victory in elections in years and this is three years after losing in a landslide and people asking when the Labour Party would end.

    A year after Starmee being finished.

    A year after people asking how will Labour ever win again?

    We know, they change their coalition.
    Seriously why do you expect the ruling Government of 12 years to do well in Local Elections?

    In 1999 Blair lost 32 Councils after just 2 years in power and just 2 years later he won another thumping majority.

    Governments nearly always perform badly in Local Elections, this Government has had the worst press possible for the last 8 months, Labours performance is nowhere near what it should be.
    They took Barnet, Westminster and Wandsworth.

    I know hating London is cool now but that is historic and unprecedented. And shows the Tories are losing in traditional voters what they gained in the Red Wall, which is going back to Labour anyway.

    They generally could end up on less than 150 seats. And yet nobody here wants to talk about it
    Nick made a similar point upthread.
    Doesn't mean it will happen, but the geographic reassortment of Conservative support, which delivered a big majority at the GE, has left them vulnerable to electoral disaster.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,649
    Roger said:

    There was a Tory council leader in the Midlands who was calling for Boris to go sometime after midnight on BBC radio 4.

    He said he wasn't waiting for his count 'I've been around long enough to know when the writing's on the wall'. .......'No it's not because of losing it's a question of morality'

    ......at which point I stopped listening and now I can't find him. I'm curious to know if he did lose.

    It was Worcester
  • BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
    So do you agree that 2018 was bad or not because St Jeremy was in charge?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,555

    Scott_xP said:

    The loss of Wandsworth will be felt most keenly by Conservatives

    It was reportedly former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s favourite council

    Outgoing Tory leader Ravi Govindia said the "issue" of Boris Johnson was raised “consistently" by voters

    http://bloom.bg/3Fk0gDc https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1522470069837697025/photo/1

    It’s so odd though, because so many insisted this was just a bubble issue.
    Except those promoting #beergate!

    Or perhaps Starmer with a beer and curry was just the human side of Starmer that people wanted to see.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,177
    TimS said:

    Woke up, looked at BBC news website, and got the message it had been a bad night for Labour and a reassuring one for the Tories.

    Come here and see it’s actually been pretty bad for the Tories and good for Labour.

    Then look at the actual results and wonder why the headline wasn’t “fantastic night for the Liberal Democrats”.

    As OGH tells us salience matters.

    The LibDems aren’t salient
  • Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The loss of Wandsworth will be felt most keenly by Conservatives

    It was reportedly former Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s favourite council

    Outgoing Tory leader Ravi Govindia said the "issue" of Boris Johnson was raised “consistently" by voters

    http://bloom.bg/3Fk0gDc https://twitter.com/BloombergUK/status/1522470069837697025/photo/1

    It’s so odd though, because so many insisted this was just a bubble issue.
    Except those promoting #beergate!

    Or perhaps Starmer with a beer and curry was just the human side of Starmer that people wanted to see.
    The Mail has given up on it. I am devastated for them.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,280
    OK. I'll be working, as and when I get chance over the next few days, and possibly in a pretty limited way, mapping local election results to current and proposed Westminster constituencies.

    Because, much as we always say 'its locals', the news cycle does try to get a sense of the national picture from it and, for example, "Labour gain local election plurality in Hartlepool constituency" is as good a way as any of expressing that read across. Especially in a metro heavy year where many wards do sport a decently representative slate of candidates.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,471
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    You only had a choice of three parties because of First Past The Post. As long as that continues, parties are inevitably going to make (often informal) pacts to maximise their seat tallies.
    Rubbish.

    And people who claim to dislike FPTP because of a supposed or real lack of democracy, who then support electoral pacts, are being inconsistent IMV.
    And IMV, that's rubbish. :smile:
    Fair enough. But back in 2010, we had six candidates under FPTP. So it's nowt to do with FPTP. We lost an independent (Robin Page), and UKIP did not stand. If a Green candidate had stood, I might well have voted for him. In the end I voted LD, but I'd be less likely to next time because of the pact.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,886
    Remember folks that the One True Tory has proclaimed that Red Wall Tory voters aren't proper Tories and the party doesn't need their votes.

    Which will be a problem if the Monkey Hangers in 'Pools - who voted to reelect a man who during the campaign pled guilty to beating his wife - are the last bastions of the Tory vote in England.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518
    The prediction in some of the extrapolations that Labour would have a net loss of seats in England are proving wrong, as there's a significant gain. I'm not sure the outstanding results are going to change that. Do we have a final score from Southampton? Assuming Labour moves into 2nd in Scotland and does OK in Wales, it's a solid national picture, though only spectacular in London and Southamption (we shall see about Worthing).
  • I went to bed early and didn't vote (no elections in my area) and am not supporting any party so my dispassionate early impression of the results.

    Greens showing 23 net Councillor gains, that seems pretty impressive for them considering their starting point but won't equate to anything at a General Election.

    Labour showing 38 net Councillor gains, that seems fairly disappointing for them to be honest. Though no doubt they'll be delighted to make further gains with the London Councils (and the media loves to talk about London) but they need to be doing better elsewhere.

    Lib Dems showing 57 net Councillor gains, biggest gainers of the election. They should be delighted with that I guess?

    Tories showing 124 net Councillor losses. Pretty disappointing for them, but not especially bad for a midterm election.

    All in all a kind of meh result that rather matches the polls - its midterms, the government are behind, but its kind of expected for a midterm and doesn't really say much for the next election. Lib Dems probably happiest, Labour will be happy with London but need to be doing well outside of London if they want to form the next government.

    Of course half the results aren't in yet, so this could all yet change.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    Curtice says just now on 5 live "Labour are down on 2018 outside London and that the narrative Labour are trying to push that they are doing better than under Corbyn isn't backed by the results so far"

    You are wrong BJO. They are clearly UP to 2018 levels, not down.

    I have part one (Tory v Labour in red wall) analysed perfectly I’m sure. Moon Rabbits answer is the right answer. Come and join me here in your own time 😌

    Part two this afternoon, the assault on the blue wall. Here the expectation management is different, people now expecting Libdem fun at Tory expense. I believe it when I see it. But it could be a lot of fun finding out.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Of course, the big loser of the night is Electoral Calculus.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,471

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    You only had a choice of three parties because of First Past The Post. As long as that continues, parties are inevitably going to make (often informal) pacts to maximise their seat tallies.
    Rubbish.

    And people who claim to dislike FPTP because of a supposed or real lack of democracy, who then support electoral pacts, are being inconsistent IMV.
    Why?

    I’m a LibDem member. My views are much, much closer to Labour or the Greens than they are to the Conservatives.

    An electoral pact means that a council close to my views is much more likely to be elected. And, in fact, has been, in Oxfordshire last year and in West Oxfordshire this morning.

    How is that inconsistent?
    A question then: why are you against FPTP?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    Roger said:

    There was a Tory council leader in the Midlands who was calling for Boris to go sometime after midnight on BBC radio 4.

    He said he wasn't waiting for his count 'I've been around long enough to know when the writing's on the wall'. .......'No it's not because of losing it's a question of morality'

    ......at which point I stopped listening and now I can't find him. I'm curious to know if he did lose.

    Mallinson in Carlisle - see the Guardian blog
    Worcester was same.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,649

    BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
    So do you agree that 2018 was bad or not because St Jeremy was in charge?
    What are you talking about?

    Curtice just said Labour outside London are doing worse than 2018 under Corbyn.

    Wait for the predicted vote share later today and then explain why it doesn't match the Polls
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,581

    The prediction in some of the extrapolations that Labour would have a net loss of seats in England are proving wrong, as there's a significant gain. I'm not sure the outstanding results are going to change that. Do we have a final score from Southampton? Assuming Labour moves into 2nd in Scotland and does OK in Wales, it's a solid national picture, though only spectacular in London and Southamption (we shall see about Worthing).

    The "big lie" expectations management from the Tories has worked though. Losing 25% of councils and 20% of councillors in the overnight results is being spun as "good" because the numbers are so far below the unachievable bar they set.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    edited May 2022
    This New Statesman estimate from a few days ago looks like it might turn out to be close

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1521957860887912448

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,471
    Foxy said:

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    You only had a choice of three parties because of First Past The Post. As long as that continues, parties are inevitably going to make (often informal) pacts to maximise their seat tallies.
    Rubbish.

    And people who claim to dislike FPTP because of a supposed or real lack of democracy, who then support electoral pacts, are being inconsistent IMV.
    I prefer pacts to be tacit, and based on targetting seats as per 1997 than not standing a candidate, but pacts are not inconsistent with FPTP, they are a consequence of it.
    Not really. Under many non-FPTP schemes, the pacts happen *after* the election, turning what happened in 2010 into the norm.

    As I say, not standing candidates is really poor. Not really trying shows that you don't really believe in what you're saying.
  • Nigelb said:

    Jonathan said:

    Starmer should be be pretty happy this morning. There is significant progress since 2019.

    Afetr 12 years of Tory Rule and 8 months of terrible press for the Government these are not great results for Labour and are very much in line with the By-Elections of the past year.

    ROFL first victory in elections in years and this is three years after losing in a landslide and people asking when the Labour Party would end.

    A year after Starmee being finished.

    A year after people asking how will Labour ever win again?

    We know, they change their coalition.
    Seriously why do you expect the ruling Government of 12 years to do well in Local Elections?

    In 1999 Blair lost 32 Councils after just 2 years in power and just 2 years later he won another thumping majority.

    Governments nearly always perform badly in Local Elections, this Government has had the worst press possible for the last 8 months, Labours performance is nowhere near what it should be.
    They took Barnet, Westminster and Wandsworth.

    I know hating London is cool now but that is historic and unprecedented. And shows the Tories are losing in traditional voters what they gained in the Red Wall, which is going back to Labour anyway.

    They generally could end up on less than 150 seats. And yet nobody here wants to talk about it
    Nick made a similar point upthread.
    Doesn't mean it will happen, but the geographic reassortment of Conservative support, which delivered a big majority at the GE, has left them vulnerable to electoral disaster.
    I wrote at length about this when the PB topic of the day was when will Starmer resign, he's a disaster etc.

    The Tories' electoral strategy of 2019 is very successful if and only if:

    Labour has a very, very unpopular leader.

    The economy is in relatively good health.

    Brexit has not been delivered.

    People who hate the Tories don't stay at home, they turn out specifically to vote because Labour would be worse.

    None of these things are now true - we may genuinely look back in a few years and say how much of a disaster picking Johnson was for them, long term
  • BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
    So do you agree that 2018 was bad or not because St Jeremy was in charge?
    What are you talking about?

    Curtice just said Labour outside London are doing worse than 2018 under Corbyn.

    Wait for the predicted vote share later today and then explain why it doesn't match the Polls
    You said Labour is having a bad night.

    Was 2018 bad or not?
  • BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
    So do you agree that 2018 was bad or not because St Jeremy was in charge?
    If 2018 was bad because of Jeremy, and 2022 is no better than 2018 (or worse as Curtice says) outside of London, then does that mean its bad or worse because of Starmer outside of London?
  • JACK_WJACK_W Posts: 682

    JACK_W said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Does it just keep coming all morning or can I have a bath?

    I can’t keep being first, it makes me look an obsessive 🫢

    Being obsessive is not a bad look on PB. We all are!

    Am I right in thinking that Lab is not gaining in "Red Wall" areas compared to 2018, but is in comparison to 2021?

    Nice to see so much yellow and green.
    I’ll answer your question. At first it looked like that. But. Look at the number of councillors won by everyone.

    psephologists been saying for weeks that in 2018 Labour had a bit of a “meh” result at the time, but considering everything that has happened in the same territory since, 2018 is good, just holding 2018, just standing still, is a far better result than those which have happened since.

    In other words, if at the 2019 general election Labour had got those 2018 votes they wouldn’t have melted down to that degree. It’s boring. And it’s not a sexy headline. But it’s actually true. It’s the sort of thing here on PB we should have enough respect for a betting site to agree about, and educate the rest of the world.

    Secondly, Where a whole council isn’t up at once, but thirds over 4 years, direct comparisons with four years ago isn’t the whole story. What has happened in between plays a part in a distinct local narrative. Last week HY said Starmer needs to take Swindon. When you look into it Tories had such an excellent result there last year, taking seats that forever have been Labour, in all fairness it actually takes a few elections to work back from such bad years? You screaming “they havn’t made much progress in Dudley, pathetic” versus Labour in Dudley all smiles with progress they have made. It’s about eating the elephant one step at a time in the world of climbing councils.
    Meanwhile, if the Libdems have a great afternoon and evening in the blue wall, the Tory’s can go over 200 losses into the red zone the electionolgists built as the true bad measurement. 250 is losing about 1/4 councillors. The real bad result not the fake one put out in expectation management.

    Still a long day ahead. If I was blue wall Tory heading to count, they can’t be sure it’s their day.
    Only a single lonely Tory councillor in Richmond upon Thames.
    He's 92 years old and was first elected (for Labour, funnily enough) in the Borough's first election in 1964. I believe he was on the old Twickenham Urban District Council for a term before that. He's not served continuously, but it's a pretty amazing stint.
    Excellent to note that these youngsters are still making the cut .. :smiley:
    There is a 94-year-old Independent councillor up for re-election in Argyll & Bute.
    Mere striplings.

    Here in Auchentennach I'd win a landslide if any election were contested but my devoted electorate refuse the opportunity and there is a bylaw of 1717 that ensures new candidates must be over 80 and have their nomination papers signed by their parents. Seems fair to me .. :smiley:
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Are the Tories out of touch?

    No context British politics:

    "I have never purchased a tin of baked beans in my life," say Oliver Dowden.

    https://twitter.com/WJames_Reuters/status/1522472070910812161
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 881

    Curtice says just now on 5 live "Labour are down on 2018 outside London and that the narrative Labour are trying to push that they are doing better than under Corbyn isn't backed by the results so far"

    You are wrong BJO. They are clearly UP to 2018 levels, not down.

    I have part one (Tory v Labour in red wall) analysed perfectly I’m sure. Moon Rabbits answer is the right answer. Come and join me here in your own time 😌

    Part two this afternoon, the assault on the blue wall. Here the expectation management is different, people now expecting Libdem fun at Tory expense. I believe it when I see it. But it could be a lot of fun finding out.
    Gains in Scotland will also be an indicator of Labour fortunes at GE, especially if those gains come at the expense of the SNP. Could nix the SNP as a stick to beat Labour with in England, plus giving enough crucial seats for a Lib-Lab Government. If Scotland starts voting Labour in decent numbers, then Labour are on course for Government (assuming Red Wall returns).
  • BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
    So do you agree that 2018 was bad or not because St Jeremy was in charge?
    If 2018 was bad because of Jeremy, and 2022 is no better than 2018 (or worse as Curtice says) outside of London, then does that mean its bad or worse because of Starmer outside of London?
    My point is that BJO will say 2018 was good, because he's a JC cultist (of which I am formerly).

    But in that case 2022 is also good - but BJO will not say so because he hates Keir Starmer.

    2022 is objectively good - if you take three councils that never voted Labour before, that's as seismic as Hartlepool going Tory
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,930

    TimS said:

    Woke up, looked at BBC news website, and got the message it had been a bad night for Labour and a reassuring one for the Tories.

    Come here and see it’s actually been pretty bad for the Tories and good for Labour.

    Then look at the actual results and wonder why the headline wasn’t “fantastic night for the Liberal Democrats”.

    As OGH tells us salience matters.

    The LibDems aren’t salient
    They’ll be salient at a GE if their gains in the Blue wall are the gateway to a Tory defeat. If I were Starmer I’d be quietly happy at the yellows’ progress.
  • Roger said:

    This New Statesman estimate from a few days ago looks like it might turn out to be close

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1521957860887912448

    I don't think so, unless the remaining results are wildly different to the last ones.

    With half the Councils in the Lib Dems have already gained nearly twice that estimate, while Labour are off track.

    The Tory figure might be close at the end, but the seats seem to be going yellow not red.
  • Unpopular said:

    Curtice says just now on 5 live "Labour are down on 2018 outside London and that the narrative Labour are trying to push that they are doing better than under Corbyn isn't backed by the results so far"

    You are wrong BJO. They are clearly UP to 2018 levels, not down.

    I have part one (Tory v Labour in red wall) analysed perfectly I’m sure. Moon Rabbits answer is the right answer. Come and join me here in your own time 😌

    Part two this afternoon, the assault on the blue wall. Here the expectation management is different, people now expecting Libdem fun at Tory expense. I believe it when I see it. But it could be a lot of fun finding out.
    Gains in Scotland will also be an indicator of Labour fortunes at GE, especially if those gains come at the expense of the SNP. Could nix the SNP as a stick to beat Labour with in England, plus giving enough crucial seats for a Lib-Lab Government. If Scotland starts voting Labour in decent numbers, then Labour are on course for Government (assuming Red Wall returns).
    If polling is correct and Labour are now the opposition to the SNP, the key Tory attack line is neutralised. It is Tories in Scotland that risk another referendum - and Keir will be delighted with that
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854

    Roger said:

    There was a Tory council leader in the Midlands who was calling for Boris to go sometime after midnight on BBC radio 4.

    He said he wasn't waiting for his count 'I've been around long enough to know when the writing's on the wall'. .......'No it's not because of losing it's a question of morality'

    ......at which point I stopped listening and now I can't find him. I'm curious to know if he did lose.

    It was Worcester
    Thanks. Did he lose his seat?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,649

    The prediction in some of the extrapolations that Labour would have a net loss of seats in England are proving wrong, as there's a significant gain. I'm not sure the outstanding results are going to change that. Do we have a final score from Southampton? Assuming Labour moves into 2nd in Scotland and does OK in Wales, it's a solid national picture, though only spectacular in London and Southamption (we shall see about Worthing).

    Outside of London Labour are currently in a small net loss of seats in England position.

    That is spot on with the extrapolations I saw

    London Gains also spot on with those extrapolations.
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Woke up, looked at BBC news website, and got the message it had been a bad night for Labour and a reassuring one for the Tories.

    Come here and see it’s actually been pretty bad for the Tories and good for Labour.

    Then look at the actual results and wonder why the headline wasn’t “fantastic night for the Liberal Democrats”.

    As OGH tells us salience matters.

    The LibDems aren’t salient
    They’ll be salient at a GE if their gains in the Blue wall are the gateway to a Tory defeat. If I were Starmer I’d be quietly happy at the yellows’ progress.
    Almost like this was unofficially the plan - as I have been saying for over a year now...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Scottish Tory MSP turns his fire on Douglas Ross after the leader called for the PM to resign over Partygate & later changed his mind

    The fallout for Scot Conservatives north of the border (Lab's confident of coming 2nd on vote share if not no of cllrs) from this vote cd be wild
    https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1522470125307322368
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518
    Alistair said:

    Curtice says just now on 5 live "Labour are down on 2018 outside London and that the narrative Labour are trying to push that they are doing better than under Corbyn isn't backed by the results so far"

    Labour will be devastated, just devastated, that they have lost council seats to the Greens and the LibDems.

    Truly their hopes of tactical voting at the next election to kick out the Tories is completely up in smoke.
    No, what's happening is that voters are going for the anti-Tory party without much tribalsim, which is actually the definition of tactical voting. In the London borough, it's Labour. In Richmond, it's the LibDems. In Southampton, it's Labour. In Oxfordshire, it's the LibDems and Greens. Where the Tories are not a threat, as in Hull, you get LD/Green gains from Labour, but that's very unusual in Tory-led areas, since everyone is concentrating on winning Tory seats.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,177

    Barnet! Wandsworth! Westminster! 🎉🎉🎉🌹🌹🌹

    I wonder what will happen to my council tax.
    During the last few years - which were not easy - the council kept their impost flat while Sadiq Khan maxed out the increase he was allowed (high single digits each year IIRC)
    There's more to life than council tax - it's one consideration, but as we see not the decisive one.
    Sure.

    But councils should be about local services - which are good - delivered in the most cost effective way.

    For everything else there’s Mastercard
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,274

    I went to bed early and didn't vote (no elections in my area) and am not supporting any party so my dispassionate early impression of the results.

    Greens showing 23 net Councillor gains, that seems pretty impressive for them considering their starting point but won't equate to anything at a General Election.

    Labour showing 38 net Councillor gains, that seems fairly disappointing for them to be honest. Though no doubt they'll be delighted to make further gains with the London Councils (and the media loves to talk about London) but they need to be doing better elsewhere.

    Lib Dems showing 57 net Councillor gains, biggest gainers of the election. They should be delighted with that I guess?

    Tories showing 124 net Councillor losses. Pretty disappointing for them, but not especially bad for a midterm election.

    All in all a kind of meh result that rather matches the polls - its midterms, the government are behind, but its kind of expected for a midterm and doesn't really say much for the next election. Lib Dems probably happiest, Labour will be happy with London but need to be doing well outside of London if they want to form the next government.

    Of course half the results aren't in yet, so this could all yet change.

    The Guardian have Labour at +91 seats. Wonder why they have such different numbers to the BBC?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Exclusive:

    Buckingham Palace has drawn up contingency plans for Prince Charles to stand in for mother at Queen’s Speech

    Whitehall source said it’s increasingly unlikely she will deliver it

    Royal source said she plans to but won’t confirm until the day


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4661527a-cc9e-11ec-bb1d-4e283d8ec187?shareToken=56a5372777d44d3767da8840c170f6eb
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,316
    murali_s said:

    I guess if you spend your time calling Londoners out of touch liberal elites eventually they will abandon your party for good

    Very true. But also beware of calling leave voters racists in the ex red wall.
    They are not racist, they are just ill-informed and manipulated by people like the disingenuous fat fornicator in number 10.
    I see. Not racist, just thick ..
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited May 2022
    https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1522470125307322368

    Expectation management or are Labour back?

    If Wales and Scotland swing strongly to Labour - a landslide is surely on the cards as the economic situation deteriorates.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,748
    Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency (FSA) scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/05/boris-johnson-fumio-kishida-share-fukushima-popcorn-radioactive/ (£££)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Southern discomfort.

    Northern exposure.

    Not sure that’s a great recipe for the Tories, TBH.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    Roger said:

    This New Statesman estimate from a few days ago looks like it might turn out to be close

    https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1521957860887912448

    CON: -206
    LAB: +147
    LDEM: +34
    GRN: +35

    Labour will finish someway under that, the Tories probably a bit over, libdems definitely some way over that, greens over that too.

    Conclusion, what that forecaster thought would go to labour quite a bit is shared among other three as well as underestimate libdems hurting Tories.

    Other than no cigar, in the right ball park.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518
    Practical tip: when I refresh PB to get the latest comments, it tends to loop without updating. But when I navigate to PB anew and then click on comments, they appear.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,319

    The prediction in some of the extrapolations that Labour would have a net loss of seats in England are proving wrong, as there's a significant gain. I'm not sure the outstanding results are going to change that. Do we have a final score from Southampton? Assuming Labour moves into 2nd in Scotland and does OK in Wales, it's a solid national picture, though only spectacular in London and Southamption (we shall see about Worthing).

    Outside of London Labour are currently in a small net loss of seats in England position.

    That is spot on with the extrapolations I saw

    London Gains also spot on with those extrapolations.
    Did you write the earlier "a good night for the Tories, a bad one for Labour" BBC headline?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,649
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    There was a Tory council leader in the Midlands who was calling for Boris to go sometime after midnight on BBC radio 4.

    He said he wasn't waiting for his count 'I've been around long enough to know when the writing's on the wall'. .......'No it's not because of losing it's a question of morality'

    ......at which point I stopped listening and now I can't find him. I'm curious to know if he did lose.

    It was Worcester
    Thanks. Did he lose his seat?
    No Marc Bayliss held his seat but Worcester went to NOC
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,772
    edited May 2022

    Foxy said:

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    You only had a choice of three parties because of First Past The Post. As long as that continues, parties are inevitably going to make (often informal) pacts to maximise their seat tallies.
    Rubbish.

    And people who claim to dislike FPTP because of a supposed or real lack of democracy, who then support electoral pacts, are being inconsistent IMV.
    I prefer pacts to be tacit, and based on targetting seats as per 1997 than not standing a candidate, but pacts are not inconsistent with FPTP, they are a consequence of it.
    Not really. Under many non-FPTP schemes, the pacts happen *after* the election, turning what happened in 2010 into the norm.

    As I say, not standing candidates is really poor. Not really trying shows that you don't really believe in what you're saying.
    This is nonsense. Take an extreme example. 100 candidates of various shades of conservatism and 1 socialist candidate. 102 voters. 2 are socialists the rest various shades of conservatism. Socialist candidate wins with 2 votes and under 2% of the vote. That is your idea of democracy? Wouldn't it be better if the conservatives formed a pact or change from FPTP so they can stand and the most popular conservative gets elected.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency (FSA) scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/05/boris-johnson-fumio-kishida-share-fukushima-popcorn-radioactive/ (£££)

    No need to put it in the microwave then?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    Exclusive:

    Boris Johnson asked Ben Wallace to withdraw letter asking for increased defence spending after invasion of Ukraine

    Johnson accepted principle of letter - that inflation risked 2% Nato target - but argued Spring Statement was wrong time for it


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9bfae354-cc99-11ec-bb1d-4e283d8ec187?shareToken=1151ac57fe051902083e3652ca7aed87
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,748

    I went to bed early and didn't vote (no elections in my area) and am not supporting any party so my dispassionate early impression of the results.

    Greens showing 23 net Councillor gains, that seems pretty impressive for them considering their starting point but won't equate to anything at a General Election.

    Labour showing 38 net Councillor gains, that seems fairly disappointing for them to be honest. Though no doubt they'll be delighted to make further gains with the London Councils (and the media loves to talk about London) but they need to be doing better elsewhere.

    Lib Dems showing 57 net Councillor gains, biggest gainers of the election. They should be delighted with that I guess?

    Tories showing 124 net Councillor losses. Pretty disappointing for them, but not especially bad for a midterm election.

    All in all a kind of meh result that rather matches the polls - its midterms, the government are behind, but its kind of expected for a midterm and doesn't really say much for the next election. Lib Dems probably happiest, Labour will be happy with London but need to be doing well outside of London if they want to form the next government.

    Of course half the results aren't in yet, so this could all yet change.

    The Guardian have Labour at +91 seats. Wonder why they have such different numbers to the BBC?
    Probably because the BBC waits till results are official and inscribed on vellum, whereas other news outlets go with the bleeding obvious and have to correct themselves about one time in a hundred.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,274
    Scott_xP said:

    Are the Tories out of touch?

    No context British politics:

    "I have never purchased a tin of baked beans in my life," say Oliver Dowden.

    https://twitter.com/WJames_Reuters/status/1522472070910812161

    If it hadn't been for my first wife I likely would never have bought a tin of baked beans in my life too, because I'd not eaten them up to that point, but had to adjust as they were such a staple in her diet.
  • BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
    So do you agree that 2018 was bad or not because St Jeremy was in charge?
    If 2018 was bad because of Jeremy, and 2022 is no better than 2018 (or worse as Curtice says) outside of London, then does that mean its bad or worse because of Starmer outside of London?
    My point is that BJO will say 2018 was good, because he's a JC cultist (of which I am formerly).

    But in that case 2022 is also good - but BJO will not say so because he hates Keir Starmer.

    2022 is objectively good - if you take three councils that never voted Labour before, that's as seismic as Hartlepool going Tory
    I don't think its objectively good. London has been trending Labour for a long time, so I don't think its that seismic.

    Labour looks like solidifying its gains in London, taking a few more seats there, but outside of London they need to be doing better.

    The key thing though is that the PM's own seat is in London. I've long thought he'll retire in 2023 and these results reinforce that expectation. He won't want to go into an election where his own seat is at risk, and he won't want to 'chicken run' so retirement will be the best option.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509

    The Met Office did well to use the Iceland volcano crisis to secure funding for a pollution observations plane, in part to be ready to observe future volcanic ash clouds to determine where the safe limit for passenger flights would be.

    Funding stopped now. Might be a sign of things to come with government spending (or the current Met Office management might not be as persuasive).

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/may/06/pollutionwatch-final-flight-met-office-aerial-survey-plane

    Shame to see it stop flying, but yes, the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg are now looking at line items in every government department.

    Taxes have never been higher, so government needs to look carefully at the scope of spending.

    Also, a funny Guardian story linked from that one - Swiss Nespresso factory got a surprise when 500kg of cocaine turned up in a delivery of coffee beans.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/05/swiss-police-seize-cocaine-nespresso-factory
    Someone else is going to be very unhappy, when they find out they got a pallet of coffee!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518

    Scott_xP said:

    Are the Tories out of touch?

    No context British politics:

    "I have never purchased a tin of baked beans in my life," say Oliver Dowden.

    https://twitter.com/WJames_Reuters/status/1522472070910812161

    If it hadn't been for my first wife I likely would never have bought a tin of baked beans in my life too, because I'd not eaten them up to that point, but had to adjust as they were such a staple in her diet.
    What is a baked bean? They never mention them in my ready meals...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,649

    The prediction in some of the extrapolations that Labour would have a net loss of seats in England are proving wrong, as there's a significant gain. I'm not sure the outstanding results are going to change that. Do we have a final score from Southampton? Assuming Labour moves into 2nd in Scotland and does OK in Wales, it's a solid national picture, though only spectacular in London and Southamption (we shall see about Worthing).

    Outside of London Labour are currently in a small net loss of seats in England position.

    That is spot on with the extrapolations I saw

    London Gains also spot on with those extrapolations.
    Did you write the earlier "a good night for the Tories, a bad one for Labour" BBC headline?
    No mate
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,900

    Foxy said:

    Hmmm a lib dem revival pretty key to Labours hopes no? Although I suspect by the news bulletins tonight we we be talking about NI and certain contributors may be back to talking about UDI for Ballymena or some such....

    I thought Ed Davey was very telling this morning.

    In lots of places we are the challengers to the Tories he said. But nothing about Labour.

    Unofficial pact as per 1997, it us clear Labour stepped back in some places and so did the Lib Dems. Big problems for the Tories ahead
    Electoral pacts can be undemocratic, reducing local choice for the electorate.

    At the last GE I only had a choice of three parties because of a Green / Lib Dem pact.
    You only had a choice of three parties because of First Past The Post. As long as that continues, parties are inevitably going to make (often informal) pacts to maximise their seat tallies.
    Rubbish.

    And people who claim to dislike FPTP because of a supposed or real lack of democracy, who then support electoral pacts, are being inconsistent IMV.
    I prefer pacts to be tacit, and based on targetting seats as per 1997 than not standing a candidate, but pacts are not inconsistent with FPTP, they are a consequence of it.
    Not really. Under many non-FPTP schemes, the pacts happen *after* the election, turning what happened in 2010 into the norm.

    As I say, not standing candidates is really poor. Not really trying shows that you don't really believe in what you're saying.
    On that basis, the Conservative mish-mash ought to demerge, so that we have an old-fashioned decent Conservative versus a corrupt cynical Johnsonite versus an Empire loyalist. These strands of Conservatism are all very different. If they all stood in every constituency, electors would know what they are being invited to support.
  • Just like the Tory/BXP alliance in GE19, some were delighted with that I recall
  • Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Buckingham Palace has drawn up contingency plans for Prince Charles to stand in for mother at Queen’s Speech

    Whitehall source said it’s increasingly unlikely she will deliver it

    Royal source said she plans to but won’t confirm until the day


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4661527a-cc9e-11ec-bb1d-4e283d8ec187?shareToken=56a5372777d44d3767da8840c170f6eb

    Bad taste, but there's a nursery rhyme stuck in my head now after reading that.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,177
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Woke up, looked at BBC news website, and got the message it had been a bad night for Labour and a reassuring one for the Tories.

    Come here and see it’s actually been pretty bad for the Tories and good for Labour.

    Then look at the actual results and wonder why the headline wasn’t “fantastic night for the Liberal Democrats”.

    As OGH tells us salience matters.

    The LibDems aren’t salient
    They’ll be salient at a GE if their gains in the Blue wall are the gateway to a Tory defeat. If I were Starmer I’d be quietly happy at the yellows’ progress.
    Sure but you were asking why they weren’t the headline today
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446

    https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1522470125307322368

    Expectation management or are Labour back?

    If Wales and Scotland swing strongly to Labour - a landslide is surely on the cards as the economic situation deteriorates.

    Wales will be interesting because leave has been so strong there, and leave was definitely in play in England overnight. Will labour after finding it hard work in leave voting areas of England find that extend to become an Albion thing?
  • Is this the first election BoJo has ever lost?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854

    The prediction in some of the extrapolations that Labour would have a net loss of seats in England are proving wrong, as there's a significant gain. I'm not sure the outstanding results are going to change that. Do we have a final score from Southampton? Assuming Labour moves into 2nd in Scotland and does OK in Wales, it's a solid national picture, though only spectacular in London and Southamption (we shall see about Worthing).

    Outside of London Labour are currently in a small net loss of seats in England position.

    That is spot on with the extrapolations I saw

    London Gains also spot on with those extrapolations.
    Did you write the earlier "a good night for the Tories, a bad one for Labour" BBC headline?
    BBC headline from Nick Robinson 'Bad night for Tories. Not yet good enough for Labour'
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    On a personal note, not such a great result round here. Usual Labour holds across the board and in my ward it appears that Hannah, although still managing over 1,000 votes, has slightly lost both vote share and absolute votes from last time.

    Story of Merseyside though.... Labour heartland still: https://modgov.sefton.gov.uk/mgElectionResults.aspx?ID=31&V=1&RPID=33376255
  • https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1522470125307322368

    Expectation management or are Labour back?

    If Wales and Scotland swing strongly to Labour - a landslide is surely on the cards as the economic situation deteriorates.

    Wales will be interesting because leave has been so strong there, and leave was definitely in play in England overnight. Will labour after finding it hard work in leave voting areas of England find that extend to become an Albion thing?
    Drakeford has prevented that by being the Wales Party.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,930
    Tunbridge Wells will be a big one later. If the Lib Dems can cause a loss of overall Tory control that will be headline worthy simply because of the iconic nature of the town.

    Disgusted voters etc.

    Also notable that the most prolific tweeter on Tunbridge Wells Lib Dem fortunes is also one of the best military commentators on Ukraine, Dr Mike Martin.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,274

    I went to bed early and didn't vote (no elections in my area) and am not supporting any party so my dispassionate early impression of the results.

    Greens showing 23 net Councillor gains, that seems pretty impressive for them considering their starting point but won't equate to anything at a General Election.

    Labour showing 38 net Councillor gains, that seems fairly disappointing for them to be honest. Though no doubt they'll be delighted to make further gains with the London Councils (and the media loves to talk about London) but they need to be doing better elsewhere.

    Lib Dems showing 57 net Councillor gains, biggest gainers of the election. They should be delighted with that I guess?

    Tories showing 124 net Councillor losses. Pretty disappointing for them, but not especially bad for a midterm election.

    All in all a kind of meh result that rather matches the polls - its midterms, the government are behind, but its kind of expected for a midterm and doesn't really say much for the next election. Lib Dems probably happiest, Labour will be happy with London but need to be doing well outside of London if they want to form the next government.

    Of course half the results aren't in yet, so this could all yet change.

    The Guardian have Labour at +91 seats. Wonder why they have such different numbers to the BBC?
    Probably because the BBC waits till results are official and inscribed on vellum, whereas other news outlets go with the bleeding obvious and have to correct themselves about one time in a hundred.
    The Guardian seem to have fewer results in. For Labour councillors the respective numbers are:

    BBC 1189 (+38)
    Guardian 1061 (+91)

    Are there really a few council declarations that the Guardian have missed where Labour have lost 53 net councillors?

    I'm wondering if this is something to do with comparing to notional results where boundaries are redrawn, or perhaps there are places where the total number of councillors has changed that isn't being corrected for?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,555
    edited May 2022

    https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1522470125307322368

    Expectation management or are Labour back?

    If Wales and Scotland swing strongly to Labour - a landslide is surely on the cards as the economic situation deteriorates.

    Wales will be interesting because leave has been so strong there, and leave was definitely in play in England overnight. Will labour after finding it hard work in leave voting areas of England find that extend to become an Albion thing?
    I note that Lib Dems now have control of heavily Leave Kingston upon Hull.

    That Metropolitan Elite gets everywhere nowadays.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    After a bad night in the local elections, the knives come out for Boris Johnson

    Tory MP David Simmonds says “The PM some very difficult questions to answer - the public are not happy with partygate.

    “He said he will take full responsibility for the result - he must”

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1522476295875178497
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,446
    Dura_Ace said:

    Regular viewers of The Dura Ace Show may recall that I have visited Hartlepool, spiritual home of the new tory party, on a few occasions to attend functions at the RN Museum. Thus I have a few "Poolie" friends on FB. One of them reports that one of their polling booths had to be closed due to a "wanking incident".

    These are the people for whom every government policy is now calibrated to please. God help us all.

    There shouldn’t have been pictures of tractors in there anyway.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,319

    https://twitter.com/ProfTomkins/status/1522470125307322368

    Expectation management or are Labour back?

    If Wales and Scotland swing strongly to Labour - a landslide is surely on the cards as the economic situation deteriorates.

    Calm down, calm down. There is no appetite yet for post- Corbyn Labour but the LDs are back (at least at a local level). Which would suggest a NoC Parliament.

    Are those who voted yesterday simply Johnson skeptics or has he taken the Tory Party into the sewer with him? Of that I am not sure, but a replacement has a hell of a task on his/ her hands in the light of future economic prospects.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,177

    Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency (FSA) scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/05/boris-johnson-fumio-kishida-share-fukushima-popcorn-radioactive/ (£££)

    That is of course presented as a negative

    But shouldn’t it be an objective decision? I have know idea what the safe MRL is, but regulators will be able to
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    Scott_xP said:

    Exclusive:

    Buckingham Palace has drawn up contingency plans for Prince Charles to stand in for mother at Queen’s Speech

    Whitehall source said it’s increasingly unlikely she will deliver it

    Royal source said she plans to but won’t confirm until the day


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4661527a-cc9e-11ec-bb1d-4e283d8ec187?shareToken=56a5372777d44d3767da8840c170f6eb

    Sadly, it does look like London Bridge is only a year or two away.

    She’s not committed to a single future event, everything will be decided on the day. Which means that Charles can’t commit to much either, in case he needs to deputise for his mother.
  • In 2018 was Labour still on track to hold the Red Wall?

    So if they are back to 2018 levels, surely this means the Red Wall is going back to Labour not away - which means dozens of losses for the Tories
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,274

    I went to bed early and didn't vote (no elections in my area) and am not supporting any party so my dispassionate early impression of the results.

    Greens showing 23 net Councillor gains, that seems pretty impressive for them considering their starting point but won't equate to anything at a General Election.

    Labour showing 38 net Councillor gains, that seems fairly disappointing for them to be honest. Though no doubt they'll be delighted to make further gains with the London Councils (and the media loves to talk about London) but they need to be doing better elsewhere.

    Lib Dems showing 57 net Councillor gains, biggest gainers of the election. They should be delighted with that I guess?

    Tories showing 124 net Councillor losses. Pretty disappointing for them, but not especially bad for a midterm election.

    All in all a kind of meh result that rather matches the polls - its midterms, the government are behind, but its kind of expected for a midterm and doesn't really say much for the next election. Lib Dems probably happiest, Labour will be happy with London but need to be doing well outside of London if they want to form the next government.

    Of course half the results aren't in yet, so this could all yet change.

    The Guardian have Labour at +91 seats. Wonder why they have such different numbers to the BBC?
    Probably because the BBC waits till results are official and inscribed on vellum, whereas other news outlets go with the bleeding obvious and have to correct themselves about one time in a hundred.
    The Guardian seem to have fewer results in. For Labour councillors the respective numbers are:

    BBC 1189 (+38)
    Guardian 1061 (+91)

    Are there really a few council declarations that the Guardian have missed where Labour have lost 53 net councillors?

    I'm wondering if this is something to do with comparing to notional results where boundaries are redrawn, or perhaps there are places where the total number of councillors has changed that isn't being corrected for?
    Ah, yes, the Guardian figures add up to a net change of -13 councillors, so it looks like they are more likely to be the garbage ones.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,649

    The prediction in some of the extrapolations that Labour would have a net loss of seats in England are proving wrong, as there's a significant gain. I'm not sure the outstanding results are going to change that. Do we have a final score from Southampton? Assuming Labour moves into 2nd in Scotland and does OK in Wales, it's a solid national picture, though only spectacular in London and Southamption (we shall see about Worthing).

    Outside of London Labour are currently in a small net loss of seats in England position.

    That is spot on with the extrapolations I saw

    London Gains also spot on with those extrapolations.
    Did you write the earlier "a good night for the Tories, a bad one for Labour" BBC headline?
    No mate.

    Nor did I force Sir John Curtice to say "the results in the rest of England outside London were down on Corbyn in 2018 despite the narrative Labour are trying to push"
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,751
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: annoyingly, I have forgotten which car it was that did notably better in hotter conditions, but Miami is looking rather toasty.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,930

    Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency (FSA) scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/05/boris-johnson-fumio-kishida-share-fukushima-popcorn-radioactive/ (£££)

    That is of course presented as a negative

    But shouldn’t it be an objective decision? I have know idea what the safe MRL is, but regulators will be able to
    Might help to get us accustomed. You know, build up a bit of resistance slowly so that when Vlad presses the button the Brits already have natural immunity.
  • Final results from Cumberland

    A quite incredible 'Red Wall' revival for Labour - a week after @Keir_Starmer came to campaign in Carlisle & Workington

    A mauling for the Conservatives

    BREAKING: Labour will have a majority on the new Cumberland Council

    This is a remarkable result - all 3 MPs in the area are Conservatives (Carlisle, Copeland, Workington)

    2 seats still to be declared

    How strange, BJO said Labour was going backwards
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,954
    One thing the Govt has yet to address or admit is the degree to which Brexit is fuelling UK inflation. Business leaders say it’s the thing “no one talks about” esp firms who want to keep Govt contracts
    https://twitter.com/steve_hawkes/status/1522477132500381696
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,605
    edited May 2022

    BJO delighted when his supposed party for life has few bad results in. Fake Labour

    Personal insults will not make the results outside London any better.

    See what Sir John Curtice said.
    So do you agree that 2018 was bad or not because St Jeremy was in charge?
    What are you talking about?

    Curtice just said Labour outside London are doing worse than 2018 under Corbyn.

    Wait for the predicted vote share later today and then explain why it doesn't match the Polls
    If Corbyn were leader BJO would be celebrating these results today. The desperation of the left to venerate the bearded one is rather touching.
  • Barnet symbolic for the Jewish community. So we can say with confidence Keir has made strides in getting them back over to Labour
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,177
    TimS said:

    Fish and vegetables grown near the old Fukushima nuclear plant in Japan can be freely sold in Britain after the Food Standards Agency (FSA) scrapped a rule on radioactivity levels in produce.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/05/05/boris-johnson-fumio-kishida-share-fukushima-popcorn-radioactive/ (£££)

    That is of course presented as a negative

    But shouldn’t it be an objective decision? I have know idea what the safe MRL is, but regulators will be able to
    Might help to get us accustomed. You know, build up a bit of resistance slowly so that when Vlad presses the button the Brits already have natural immunity.
    He’s not pressing the button.

    Well, he might, but the wires have been cut 😁
This discussion has been closed.