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It’s now odds-on that BJ will be replaced by the end of 2022 – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland semi locks down


    "Ireland is introducing new restrictions due to the Omicron variant:

    Hospitality, cinemas & theatres to close at 8pm
    Weddings capped at 100 people & midnight cut off
    50% capacity at sporting events, max 5,000"


    https://twitter.com/EmmaVardyTV/status/1471910732417667078?s=20


    What's the point in an 8pm closure for cinemas? Pubs will just not bother opening

    Siri, give me a list of things that don't really help stop the virus but also don't really help the affected businesses.

    Hilariously half-assed, either lock it down or don't.
    All the politicians have got an eye on the inquiries and the inevitable question "and what, Prime Mister/President/Chancellor did you do when you were first told about how devastating Omicron would be?"

    Assuming big Omi leaves any of us alive.
    The problem is that people have treated Covid for two years like a league sport where all that matters is minimising cases, hospitalisations and deaths - instead of minimising restrictions and economic damage.
    Yes, it's the international dick waving contest on death statistics. It's extremely tiresome, the same as all the "plague island" stuff from the global liberal class, it's ultimately self defeating because we can't have an economy if we're all locked up in our houses all day to protect healthcare services.
  • France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
  • MaxPB said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    I don't understand, doesn't she have tax raising powers?
    Sturgeon does - she put up the higher rate and raised less revenue - also borrowing powers - not sure Drakeford has as may financial levers. The only time either appear interested in business is when its a stick to beat Westminster with.
  • Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Case is off the partygate case because of an alleged case under Case

    It is possible to imagine someone in Downing Street uttering THIS sentence at about 4pm this afternoon:


    "Who's on the Case case? Case?"

    We could even have heard a


    "Who is on the Case case case? Case?"

    Obviously still not as good as the immortal

    Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo
    The Buffalo one is rubbish. You invariably have to explain the verb form of the word to people. Nobody here uses that word.
    Of course it's rubbish. The important thing is that it is grammatically correct and makes a coherent assertion

    English is a brilliantly mad language
    I just wish there was something using a more commonplace word. But we're always hampered having to use the plural form to get the s-less verb, or vice versa.
    Scotch would almost work if it weren't for that!
    Ooh! There's a place called Badger in Alaska

    Badger badger Badger badger badger badger Badger badger
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857

    Case is off the partygate case because of an alleged case under Case

    Lower Case.
    Is that Best Case, Middle Case or Worst Case?
    Just fight them on their breeches.
    Any more of the those puns and you'll upset @ydoethur
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,999
    I'm sure this has been shared, but the data from SA continues to be pretty positive:

    https://fortune.com/2021/12/17/omicron-covid-hospitalization-rates-south-africa-lower-previous-variants-delta/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    pm215 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Party of NIMBYISM:


    They're clearly hoping to win on aggregate...

    They've no foundation for that argument.
  • algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
  • Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Case is off the partygate case because of an alleged case under Case

    It is possible to imagine someone in Downing Street uttering THIS sentence at about 4pm this afternoon:


    "Who's on the Case case? Case?"

    We could even have heard a


    "Who is on the Case case case? Case?"

    Obviously still not as good as the immortal

    Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo
    The Buffalo one is rubbish. You invariably have to explain the verb form of the word to people. Nobody here uses that word.
    Of course it's rubbish. The important thing is that it is grammatically correct and makes a coherent assertion

    English is a brilliantly mad language
    I just wish there was something using a more commonplace word. But we're always hampered having to use the plural form to get the s-less verb, or vice versa.
    Scotch would almost work if it weren't for that!
    Ooh! There's a place called Badger in Alaska

    Badger badger Badger badger badger badger Badger badger
    I think that that that that that student wrote on the board is wrong
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    Mail: Flustered Boris Johnson desperately complained that voters and the media have been focusing on sleaze and 'Partygate' rather than Omicron today as he faces Tory meltdown over the staggering by-election defeat.

    The astonishing result immediately fuelled a seething uprising against Mr Johnson, who suffered one of the biggest Commons rebellions ever over Covid measures this week, and has been battling allegations of sleaze and lockdown-busting parties in Downing Street.

    Revealing that he has already sent a letter of no confidence to the Tory 1922 committee chairman, veteran MP Roger Gale said the defeat was a 'referendum on the PM's performance' and he is at 'last orders time'. A normally loyal northern MP warned that Mr Johnson is 'finished' and it is 'just a matter of time' before he goes.

    Election guru Professor John Curtice said he rated the result as 8.5 out of 10 on a scale of political 'earthquakes'.
  • Carnyx said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    "For all nations" = our tax moneys too, and spent on all nations under Barnett.

    Fact is, Scotland's paying 66m to hospitality businesses pulled from other budgets. Do you think that is right or wrong?
    Still plenty for Indyref planning:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19774496.indyref2-necessary-planning-vote-included-scottish-budget/

    And how about the £30million on external affairs.....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    Scott_xP said:

    EXCL: Simon Case and team had a Christmas party on Dec 17 2020 at 5.30 pm in room 103 of the Cabinet Office. The digital calendar invites sent in advance called it "Christmas party!"

    Raises serious questions about his investigation into No 10 parties


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-question-aides-seen-at-tory-hq-lockdown-party-s3c9zxl0t

    They should let Cyclefree and myself run this investigation.

    We'd get to the bottom of this story.
    A house brick could solve it. Another wrong un at the top, bunch of crooks all looking out for each other.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,892

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Thank God that Mark Drakeford is bringing back the ‘one way system’ in Welsh shops and supermarkets

    That’s surely a gamechanger. No way OMICRON - which is 70 times quicker at spreading than Delta - will be able to get past that mighty wall of Welsh logic. Ok yes, 1 infected person in a room with 100 people can infect half of them in about 6 minutes BUT NOT IF THEY ARE WALKING SLOWLY, STARING DOWN AT ARROWS ON A FLOOR, BUMPING INTO EACH OTHER


    There must come a time when Drakeford - THE DRAKE - will rightly be summoned to head a government of national unity and hand-washing protocols

    Oven gloves sales banned again...
    I don't get why anyone is bringing back the rules that were devised for Wuhan coronavirus when people were mainly concerned about droplets spreading it. Surely at the very least such rules need to be examined again?
    Why is there such EXTREME RESISTANCE by
    @WHO
    ,
    @CDCGov
    and IPC(*) to clearly state that COVID-19 is a dominantly AIRBORNE disease?

    TLDR: see slide

    https://twitter.com/jljcolorado/status/1470825435579621377
    Thank you. That's great, but I thought it was common knowledge now, I hadn't realised how entrenched the droplet spread belief still is. It seems absolutely crazy when you consider that there are numerous documented cases that would be impossible to explain by anything other than airborne transmission.

    So we are still using mitigation measures where there is a fair chance that we will one day have a consensus that they were a total waste of effort.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,683

    Carnyx said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    "For all nations" = our tax moneys too, and spent on all nations under Barnett.

    Fact is, Scotland's paying 66m to hospitality businesses pulled from other budgets. Do you think that is right or wrong?
    Still plenty for Indyref planning:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19774496.indyref2-necessary-planning-vote-included-scottish-budget/

    And how about the £30million on external affairs.....
    There's somethijng called "voting for a party manifesto" which constantly escapes PBTories when it is applied to Scotland.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
    Indeed, by my calculation we may end up with far, far few hospitalisations per day than is currently predicted despite how fast Omicron spreads. We may get to the end of the year, the original calcs on severe disease were made at ~60% for these models reality at 93-95% is way better than that. I mean 5k deaths per day is just laughable.
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    Ireland semi locks down


    "Ireland is introducing new restrictions due to the Omicron variant:

    Hospitality, cinemas & theatres to close at 8pm
    Weddings capped at 100 people & midnight cut off
    50% capacity at sporting events, max 5,000"


    https://twitter.com/EmmaVardyTV/status/1471910732417667078?s=20


    What's the point in an 8pm closure for cinemas? Pubs will just not bother opening

    Their boffins wanted a 5pm close time. An absolute killer for pubs and restaurants, and 8pm is not much better (and seems pointless).
    Why would pubs and restaurants even bother opening if they have to close at 5pm, as you say 8pm is rubbish as well.

    I think the whole of Europe should stop fannying about with restrictions and get boosting.
    To be fair the Irish are trying hard to do the boosters as fast as possible, and they already have particularly good two-dose takeup on the over 60s (better than ours). They're a bit behind us on boosters, but doing better than most European countries.

    The latest restrictions do seem half-baked. If they are worried about the spread of Omicron in the short term, they should lock down properly until Xmas, to buy themselves some time to get the boosters done. I doubt if pubs and restaurants can operate profitably with those restrictions.
    What's "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!!!!!!" in Gaelic?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Case is off the partygate case because of an alleged case under Case

    It is possible to imagine someone in Downing Street uttering THIS sentence at about 4pm this afternoon:


    "Who's on the Case case? Case?"

    We could even have heard a


    "Who is on the Case case case? Case?"

    Obviously still not as good as the immortal

    Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo
    The Buffalo one is rubbish. You invariably have to explain the verb form of the word to people. Nobody here uses that word.
    Of course it's rubbish. The important thing is that it is grammatically correct and makes a coherent assertion

    English is a brilliantly mad language
    I just wish there was something using a more commonplace word. But we're always hampered having to use the plural form to get the s-less verb, or vice versa.
    Scotch would almost work if it weren't for that!
    Ooh! There's a place called Badger in Alaska

    Badger badger Badger badger badger badger Badger badger
    Mushroom mushroom.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    Usual jingo Colonial mumbo jumbo. We more than pay our way, Westminster control hte purse an dwhat an arse they are making of it. Pretending that Scotland borrows all the money is pathetic and only a senile halfwitted cretin or someone with the intelligence of a 3 year old would try to pretend it was.
    GIRUY
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905
    "Council leaders said they were preparing for lockdowns in the new year unless the booster jabs rollout can be escalated in areas with some of the lowest vaccine uptake in the country.

    "Hammersmith and Fulham, where cases have risen by 45 per cent in a week, is recruiting residents to administer booster vaccines and volunteers to deliver food if there is another lockdown.

    Council leader Stephen Cowen told the Standard: "We are preparing for a lockdown and are back on civic emergency guidelines.”"



    Great. Volunteers to DELIVER FOOD. CIVIC EMERGENCY GUIDELINES

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/london-borough-covid-rates-cases-surge-council-prepare-lockdown-new-year-b972457.html
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited December 2021
    It was my ADHD that made me try and murder 5 police officers....being coked off my tits has nothing to do with it.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10322159/Protestor-set-fire-police-van-officers-inside-200-000-Bristol-rampage-jailed.html
  • Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,797
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm sure this has been shared, but the data from SA continues to be pretty positive:

    https://fortune.com/2021/12/17/omicron-covid-hospitalization-rates-south-africa-lower-previous-variants-delta/

    It doesn't seem to matter to many people who have a grip on our politics and media. I will enjoy the egg on face humiliation of some of them if we get through this largely unscathed.

    I wonder if politicians do believe it will be that serious or if they're largely worried about being blamed for avoidable deaths because they were too slow with boosters?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,270

    Have we discussed the possibility that the result in North Salop was entirely down to Owen Paterson's personal vote not transferring over?

    Perhaps the voters of North Salop thought Boris Johnson and the wider Tory party treated O-Patz very shabbily ?

    In all fairness to the Conservative Party, had Owen Paterson bent over and taken his spanking like a Conservative MP, quite a number of Johnson's travails would never have been noted, and Paterson would still be an MP.

    No sympathy for the conceited old fool from me.
    His spanking would have triggered a recall petition. There have been 3 recall petitions to date. The threshold required was reached easily in two of them. The third, Ian Paisley Jnr. in North Antrim, was only 0.6% off. It seems likely that Paterson would have lost a recall petition, particularly with Partygate motivating people. So, Paterson would still be an MP, but he'd be facing a by-election soon.
    Which he would quite likely have won. My point is Paterson started the ball rolling. If he had been contrite he might have been fine.

    My takeaways from today. BBC morning radio bulletins consigned B. Shropshire to an also ran story which was surprisingly. From the later bulletins, Sunak has sold himself as the knight to the rescue amidst the chaos (cleverly diverting from having taken his holidays early-crafty!). Johnson on the other hand is more or less grumbling that he would have gotten away with it were it not for those pesky journalists and opposition politicians, he clearly needs to clip their wings!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    Carnyx said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    "For all nations" = our tax moneys too, and spent on all nations under Barnett.

    Fact is, Scotland's paying 66m to hospitality businesses pulled from other budgets. Do you think that is right or wrong?
    Still plenty for Indyref planning:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19774496.indyref2-necessary-planning-vote-included-scottish-budget/

    And how about the £30million on external affairs.....
    Better than billions in Tory crooks pockets, how about the circa 200 billion minimum that went to Tories pals, they even had direct lines for their day old companies to get huge contracts. You really are nasty piece of work. Obviously ran out of Scotland and cannot get over it.
  • It was my ADHD that made me try and murder 5 police officers....being coked off my tits has nothing to do with it.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10322159/Protestor-set-fire-police-van-officers-inside-200-000-Bristol-rampage-jailed.html

    More needs to be done about cocaine (with or without booze and steroids) leading to fisticuffs.
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
    Indeed, by my calculation we may end up with far, far few hospitalisations per day than is currently predicted despite how fast Omicron spreads. We may get to the end of the year, the original calcs on severe disease were made at ~60% for these models reality at 93-95% is way better than that. I mean 5k deaths per day is just laughable.
    Ferguson is now predicting 5,000 deaths a day within weeks.

    So I suspect everything will be absolutely fine.

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,585
    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
    Indeed, by my calculation we may end up with far, far few hospitalisations per day than is currently predicted despite how fast Omicron spreads. We may get to the end of the year, the original calcs on severe disease were made at ~60% for these models reality at 93-95% is way better than that. I mean 5k deaths per day is just laughable.
    It'd be awful if we hit 5k hospitalisations a day - the idea we'll get there on deaths is just nonsense on stick.

    If their serious modelling was saying that, Mitchie and some other muppets would be resigning from SAGE calling Boris a mass murderer.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited December 2021

    It was my ADHD that made me try and murder 5 police officers....being coked off my tits has nothing to do with it.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10322159/Protestor-set-fire-police-van-officers-inside-200-000-Bristol-rampage-jailed.html

    More needs to be done about cocaine (with or without booze and steroids) leading to fisticuffs.
    It really is a huge issue, both how widespread it is but also the reaction it causes in people.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,831
    The landlord of the Dog and Duck commissioned a new sign. When it arrived he berated the sign maker saying the gaps were too big between the words Dog and and and and and Duck.
  • MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
    Indeed, by my calculation we may end up with far, far few hospitalisations per day than is currently predicted despite how fast Omicron spreads. We may get to the end of the year, the original calcs on severe disease were made at ~60% for these models reality at 93-95% is way better than that. I mean 5k deaths per day is just laughable.
    Ferguson is now predicting 5,000 deaths a day within weeks.

    So I suspect everything will be absolutely fine.

    Doesn't matter how often they are wildly out, next variant they will be back again...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    .@NadineDorries appointed @BorisJohnson's pal Martin Thomas chairman of the @ChtyCommission

    But he's resigned before starting the job as Govt didn't seek ref from Women For Women Int UK, where as chair he faced 3 formal misconduct complaints in 5 years...
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/be277850-5f54-11ec-8fac-c70e630faee6?shareToken=d1354bb5aa4cca56ca79d36c4c75853b
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    MaxPB said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    I don't understand, doesn't she have tax raising powers?
    LOL, anazing to see the ignorance of anything beyond the M25 by the jingo bells on here.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,905
    edited December 2021

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
    Indeed, by my calculation we may end up with far, far few hospitalisations per day than is currently predicted despite how fast Omicron spreads. We may get to the end of the year, the original calcs on severe disease were made at ~60% for these models reality at 93-95% is way better than that. I mean 5k deaths per day is just laughable.
    Ferguson is now predicting 5,000 deaths a day within weeks.

    So I suspect everything will be absolutely fine.

    Except they really are gonna try and lock us down


    "BREAKING: COBRA over the weekend will discuss whether new restrictions are needed"

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1471910856476794889?s=20

    I stand by my melancholy prediction. They know they are gonna lock down hard after Xmas, but they will do a lot to avoid anything much before then, because it is so unpopular. Expect a modest tightening, masks in pubs and restaurants, blah blah, then the "full fat fuck off and stay in your homes forever" a few days after Chrimbo
  • Police police police police police.

    Not the Met, obviously.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,797
    Latest from South Africa is:

    509 in ICU
    564 in high care

    195 ventilated
    1280 oxygenated

    The numbers on ventilators appear to have fallen.
  • malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
  • Bit of a cheek demanding more money from the UK Govt for business support when ⁦@scotgov are still sitting on £580m already sent?

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1471753801795309571?s=20
  • Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
    Indeed, by my calculation we may end up with far, far few hospitalisations per day than is currently predicted despite how fast Omicron spreads. We may get to the end of the year, the original calcs on severe disease were made at ~60% for these models reality at 93-95% is way better than that. I mean 5k deaths per day is just laughable.
    Ferguson is now predicting 5,000 deaths a day within weeks.

    So I suspect everything will be absolutely fine.

    Except they really are gonna try and lock us down


    "BREAKING: COBRA over the weekend will discuss whether new restrictions are needed"

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1471910856476794889?s=20

    I stand by my melancholy prediction. They know they are gonna lock down hard after Xmas, but they will do a lot to avoid anything much before then, because it is so unpopular. Expect a modest tightening, masks in pubs and restaurants, blah blah, then the "full fat fuck off and stay in your homes forever" a few days after Chrimbo
    What's the point?

    If its that transmissible then everyone will have already had it by Christmas? So why bother doing anything afterwards, its going to be closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,058
    edited December 2021
    I thought I must have missed something with Boris' interview with Sam Coates, but now I'm rewatching it it's even worse than I remember.
  • Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Case is off the partygate case because of an alleged case under Case

    It is possible to imagine someone in Downing Street uttering THIS sentence at about 4pm this afternoon:


    "Who's on the Case case? Case?"

    We could even have heard a


    "Who is on the Case case case? Case?"

    Obviously still not as good as the immortal

    Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo
    The Buffalo one is rubbish. You invariably have to explain the verb form of the word to people. Nobody here uses that word.
    Of course it's rubbish. The important thing is that it is grammatically correct and makes a coherent assertion

    English is a brilliantly mad language
    I just wish there was something using a more commonplace word. But we're always hampered having to use the plural form to get the s-less verb, or vice versa.
    Scotch would almost work if it weren't for that!
    Ooh! There's a place called Badger in Alaska

    Badger badger Badger badger badger badger Badger badger
    English teachers have one. "Leon, where MoonRabbit had had "had", had had "had had". "Had had" had had the better effect on the sentence.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    You haven't made any pension payments. Your generation never bothered saving anything for pensions, you instead accrued pension liabilities instead.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    malcolmg said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    Usual jingo Colonial mumbo jumbo. We more than pay our way, Westminster control hte purse an dwhat an arse they are making of it. Pretending that Scotland borrows all the money is pathetic and only a senile halfwitted cretin or someone with the intelligence of a 3 year old would try to pretend it was.
    GIRUY
    Off the cask strength turnip juice, for you. Back on the 40%.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    @MoonRabbit
    I am away again tomorrow so horses on tonight.
    Have done EW double and singles.

    Gaulois 12:40 Ascot
    Samarrive 15:35 Ascot
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Latest from South Africa is:

    509 in ICU
    564 in high care

    195 ventilated
    1280 oxygenated

    The numbers on ventilators appear to have fallen.

    That's yesterdays numbers.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The latest SA numbers are here

    https://www.nicd.ac.za/diseases-a-z-index/disease-index-covid-19/surveillance-reports/daily-hospital-surveillance-datcov-report/

    You don't need to rely on random twitter accounts or people scraping the historical data store
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    Bit of a cheek demanding more money from the UK Govt for business support when ⁦@scotgov are still sitting on £580m already sent?

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1471753801795309571?s=20

    Is that the same clown who has lost in 7 elections yet has stiffed taxpayers for millions. An extreme loser but knows how to crawl, Turdo is your usual Tory slimeball and as much use as one.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    malcolmg said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    Usual jingo Colonial mumbo jumbo. We more than pay our way, Westminster control hte purse and what an arse they are making of it. Pretending that Scotland borrows all the money is pathetic and only a senile halfwitted cretin or someone with the intelligence of a 3 year old would try to pretend it was.
    GIRUY
    Off the cask strength turnip juice, for you. Back on the 40%.
    So you agree with me then.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    edited December 2021
    861,306 booster vaccinations in 🇬🇧 yesterday (469,479 the previous Thursday)

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 739,867 (including me, wahey)
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 63,327
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 34,012
    NI 24,100

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1471926030151688200?t=aSldmTkh7t6cyXKQvFn4AA&s=19
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,857
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    Usual jingo Colonial mumbo jumbo. We more than pay our way, Westminster control hte purse and what an arse they are making of it. Pretending that Scotland borrows all the money is pathetic and only a senile halfwitted cretin or someone with the intelligence of a 3 year old would try to pretend it was.
    GIRUY
    Off the cask strength turnip juice, for you. Back on the 40%.
    So you agree with me then.
    Definitely too much of the cask strength there....
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,899

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    MaxPB said:

    Leon said:

    France has record numbers of under-10s in hospital with Covid.

    In the midst of the fifth wave, 119 children under the age of 10 who have contracted the coronavirus are currently being treated in hospitals across the country, including 27 in critical care. Not seen in two years of pandemic.
    https://www.liberation.fr/societe/covid-19-nouveau-record-du-nombre-denfants-hospitalises-en-france-20211216_MSU4HWIUPFDKBG6CGDMZWRH4UQ/ (auto-translated from French so e&oe)

    God that's horrible. Quite a depressing day, today
    That Imperial study on vaccine efficacy was very welcome, a 93-95% reduction in severe symptoms is absolutely brilliant.
    Yes. Much needed

    I have a horrible sense of inevitability about lockdown 4. Paradoxically, the total weakness of Boris Johnson might just be the thing that stops it happening. The rebellion over Plan B was huge, and now the PM is even more imperilled

    VIVE LA RESISTANCE
    Indeed, by my calculation we may end up with far, far few hospitalisations per day than is currently predicted despite how fast Omicron spreads. We may get to the end of the year, the original calcs on severe disease were made at ~60% for these models reality at 93-95% is way better than that. I mean 5k deaths per day is just laughable.
    Ferguson is now predicting 5,000 deaths a day within weeks.

    So I suspect everything will be absolutely fine.

    Except they really are gonna try and lock us down


    "BREAKING: COBRA over the weekend will discuss whether new restrictions are needed"

    https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1471910856476794889?s=20

    I stand by my melancholy prediction. They know they are gonna lock down hard after Xmas, but they will do a lot to avoid anything much before then, because it is so unpopular. Expect a modest tightening, masks in pubs and restaurants, blah blah, then the "full fat fuck off and stay in your homes forever" a few days after Chrimbo
    What's the point?

    If its that transmissible then everyone will have already had it by Christmas? So why bother doing anything afterwards, its going to be closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
    The old politicans' fallacy, I'm afraid.

    "Something must be done"
    "This is something"
    "Therefore we must do it."
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    "For all nations" = our tax moneys too, and spent on all nations under Barnett.

    Fact is, Scotland's paying 66m to hospitality businesses pulled from other budgets. Do you think that is right or wrong?
    Still plenty for Indyref planning:

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/19774496.indyref2-necessary-planning-vote-included-scottish-budget/

    And how about the £30million on external affairs.....
    There's somethijng called "voting for a party manifesto" which constantly escapes PBTories when it is applied to Scotland.
    There's somethijng called "voting for a party manifesto" reserved powers which constantly escapes PBTories Nats when it is applied to Scotland.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,270
    Farooq said:

    Ok folks, that's me off for a couple of weeks. Merry Christmas and happy new year. See you in 2022.

    Does that mean you are actually Santa?
  • MaxPB said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    I don't understand, doesn't she have tax raising powers?
    Sturgeon does - she put up the higher rate and raised less revenue - also borrowing powers - not sure Drakeford has as may financial levers. The only time either appear interested in business is when its a stick to beat Westminster with.
    Wales Government gave higher levels of financial support to businesses than in England during the lockdowns.
  • 861,306 booster vaccinations in 🇬🇧 yesterday (469,479 the previous Thursday)

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 739,867 (including me, wahey)
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 63,327
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 34,012
    NI 24,100

    If its literally yesterday I was in those figures too, though I always suspect there's a 2-days lag on the data.

    Getting close to a million now. Its going to peak lower than I thought because its going to run out of people to jab.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    Farooq said:

    Ok folks, that's me off for a couple of weeks. Merry Christmas and happy new year. See you in 2022.

    Merry Christmas mate, see you on the other side!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    You haven't made any pension payments. Your generation never bothered saving anything for pensions, you instead accrued pension liabilities instead.
    You really are thick, I am getting the state pension I contributed to for 50 years and I also have a shedload in personal pension and I don't pay NI. You on the other hand will hopefully get F all , your just desserts for being such a bellend.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    edited December 2021

    861,306 booster vaccinations in 🇬🇧 yesterday (469,479 the previous Thursday)

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 739,867 (including me, wahey)
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 63,327
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 34,012
    NI 24,100

    If its literally yesterday I was in those figures too, though I always suspect there's a 2-days lag on the data.

    Getting close to a million now. Its going to peak lower than I thought because its going to run out of people to jab.
    Plus firsts and seconds I think we may get pretty close to 1m doses overall and we're still probably not at full capacity utilisation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    Shropshire Star: Voters on the streets of Oswestry have laid the blame for the Tories’ defeat in the heartland seat of North Shropshire squarely at the door of Prime Minister Boris Johnson.

    The constituency has been Tory for nearly 200 years, but many of those happy to speak to reporters in Oswestry laid the blame for the defeat at the Prime Minister’s door, with one calling him “lazy” and another saying he behaved with “complete disregard”.

    I thought it would be a very much reduced majority for the Tories, but I am very pleased the message has been sent,” said Tony Parnell, with his wife Jill Parnell. “This leadership, I think, displays the worst in humanity, he (Boris Johnson) displays a complete disregard and no care for anybody other than himself,” he said. “He doesn’t even care that he’s been caught out about the parties. All he wanted to be, in my opinion, was Prime Minister.”
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011
    Case is off the case, I see.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Fine, as long as you don't expect the tax payers of England to pick up the bill:

    The first minister says business support should be available for all nations when they are needed, "not just at the point when restrictions are introduced in England"

    https://twitter.com/ITVWales/status/1471820453375324166?s=20

    Usual jingo Colonial mumbo jumbo. We more than pay our way, Westminster control hte purse and what an arse they are making of it. Pretending that Scotland borrows all the money is pathetic and only a senile halfwitted cretin or someone with the intelligence of a 3 year old would try to pretend it was.
    GIRUY
    Off the cask strength turnip juice, for you. Back on the 40%.
    So you agree with me then.
    Definitely too much of the cask strength there....
    Unfortunately one 330ml craft ale only. Some people have to work and pay tax to keep the slackers in the style they are accustomed too.
  • This scenario from Imperial, for a hypothetical LMIC "with substantial prior transmission and low vaccine access", says a country like South Africa will see 6,000 Omicron deaths *a day* (current 7-day average: 31)

    Sorry, I'm not a maths-brain, but this can't possibly be right.


    https://twitter.com/RufusSG
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited December 2021
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    You haven't made any pension payments. Your generation never bothered saving anything for pensions, you instead accrued pension liabilities instead.
    You really are thick, I am getting the state pension I contributed to for 50 years and I also have a shedload in personal pension and I don't pay NI. You on the other hand will hopefully get F all , your just desserts for being such a bellend.
    Sorry but you're the thickie

    You never contributed to the state pension, there is no state pension pot. There is no pile of cash marked "pension contributions" that you contributed towards that you're now drawing down or can be distributed to Scotland upon independence.

    Pensions are a liability, not a saving or something you've contributed to. You've fallen for a lie if you thought it was something you had.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,270
    kinabalu said:

    Case is off the case, I see.

    Too busy at a Christmas party perhaps.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,011

    kinabalu said:

    Case is off the case, I see.

    Too busy at a Christmas party perhaps.
    We need a word for something too farcical to be called a farce.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    You haven't made any pension payments. Your generation never bothered saving anything for pensions, you instead accrued pension liabilities instead.
    You really are thick, I am getting the state pension I contributed to for 50 years and I also have a shedload in personal pension and I don't pay NI. You on the other hand will hopefully get F all , your just desserts for being such a bellend.
    Sorry but you're the thickie

    You never contributed to the state pension, there is no state pension pot. There is no pile of cash marked "pension contributions" that you contributed towards that you're now drawing down or can be distributed to Scotland upon independence.

    Pensions are a liability, not a saving or something you've contributed to. You've fallen for a lie if you thought it was something you had.
    Yet I get sent my state pension every 4 weeks and get increases regularly, even got my winter fuel payment recently. You think they are paying me for nothing.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,070
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    Malcolmg there, the voice of reasonable, tolerant civic nationalism. Not some pissed up numpty, spouting homophobic hate, no siree...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663

    This scenario from Imperial, for a hypothetical LMIC "with substantial prior transmission and low vaccine access", says a country like South Africa will see 6,000 Omicron deaths *a day* (current 7-day average: 31)

    Sorry, I'm not a maths-brain, but this can't possibly be right.


    https://twitter.com/RufusSG

    It's absurd. This is what they've been reduced to in order to push for more lockdowns. It's almost like they're addicted to having this power over everyone's lives and don't want to give it up.

    Go on Boris, listen to them, try and go for restrictions. Please. It's time for the nation to be rid of you.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    IanB2 said:

    Any Italians on the site? Can you give me an authentic bolognese recipe?

    Spaghetti bolognese isn’t actually a genuine Italian dish.

    Google spaghetti al ragu.
    This is the best I've tried. Slow cooking in mik - seems odd but wow, the flavour is stupendous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/nov/25/how-to-make-perfect-bolognese
    best ragu I have ever made, alas behind the pay wall of $1: https://www.177milkstreet.com/recipes/ragú-bolognese
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    You haven't made any pension payments. Your generation never bothered saving anything for pensions, you instead accrued pension liabilities instead.
    You really are thick, I am getting the state pension I contributed to for 50 years and I also have a shedload in personal pension and I don't pay NI. You on the other hand will hopefully get F all , your just desserts for being such a bellend.
    Sorry but you're the thickie

    You never contributed to the state pension, there is no state pension pot. There is no pile of cash marked "pension contributions" that you contributed towards that you're now drawing down or can be distributed to Scotland upon independence.

    Pensions are a liability, not a saving or something you've contributed to. You've fallen for a lie if you thought it was something you had.
    Yet I get sent my state pension every 4 weeks and get increases regularly, even got my winter fuel payment recently. You think they are paying me for nothing.
    No, I think they are paying you bribes with our taxes in order to try and get your vote.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    You haven't made any pension payments. Your generation never bothered saving anything for pensions, you instead accrued pension liabilities instead.
    You really are thick, I am getting the state pension I contributed to for 50 years and I also have a shedload in personal pension and I don't pay NI. You on the other hand will hopefully get F all , your just desserts for being such a bellend.
    Sorry but you're the thickie

    You never contributed to the state pension, there is no state pension pot. There is no pile of cash marked "pension contributions" that you contributed towards that you're now drawing down or can be distributed to Scotland upon independence.

    Pensions are a liability, not a saving or something you've contributed to. You've fallen for a lie if you thought it was something you had.
    Yet I get sent my state pension every 4 weeks and get increases regularly, even got my winter fuel payment recently. You think they are paying me for nothing.
    Be grateful. After independence you’ll just get a bag of oats every month.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    Cicero said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    Malcolmg there, the voice of reasonable, tolerant civic nationalism. Not some pissed up numpty, spouting homophobic hate, no siree...
    Back to your knitting
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256
    edited December 2021

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    IanB2 said:

    A few comments from ConHome:

    "Johnson really is in cloud cuckoo land. Until he recognises that it is his sleaze and lying that is the real message of this defeat then there is no hope for this party"

    "Is Brexit sustainable? It was voted in by the elderly years ago. There is no economic good news from it. Nothing for Brits to look forward to. More unnecessary pain."

    "News about Downing Street Christmas Parties in Lockdown London, the video of Allegra Stratton laughing about it, Parties in Lockdown at Conservative Central HQ and Boris Johnson, Wallpaper and the Conservative donor and the barbecue Party in May 2020 - all this filled the masses with rage at the Government and at Boris Johnson in particular."

    "As a Conservative voter the message I wish to leave with the Parliamentary Party is that you and Johnson between you have lost the North Shropshire bye election. You have done as you usually managed to do and that is to indulge your own preferences over the best interests of the country."

    "The government needs to manage the country competently and stop being so sleazy and lying in the process. There seems only one cure for that."

    "I would commend the Sam Coates Sky TV journalist interview today with Boris. As a Boris supporter his responses were dire. NOT what was needed right now. He doesn’t appear to * get it* !"

    "The shine seems to be coming off Brexit here in North Shropshire, or at least it is much less of a tribal issue. "

    "Boris Johnson's personal qualities make him unfit to hold any responsible job whatsoever."

    "Unless there is major change the Party won't win the next GE. The shambles Johnston has made of Covid (first round of Vaccines excepted) will not count by then but high taxes, big state, high inflation and loss of civil liberties etc will."

    "My local drinking group is fairly straightforward - they will tolerate a lot but hate with a passion being lied to. And that's the PM's modus operandi: lie, cheat and deceive when he was been found out about the parties last Christmas. Plus they greatly dislike the whiff of double-standards and downright corruption associated with attempting to get Paterson off the hook when he was clearly bang to rights."

    "Conservatives in places like North Shropshire voted for Brexit because they believed Boris's promises that they would benefit. However, this largely rural constituency- especially its farmers - now realise they were lied to."

    "Time for Bojo to go. Not only has he become a political joke he is in danger of single-handedly pushing the Conservative Party into oblivion."

    "I'm pleased we lost, it may get rid of Johnson"

    "This all comes back to Brexit. The way in which this was handled means that the party has lost the support of a substantial block of its traditional voters."

    "This is clearly a protest vote against Johnson and his bunch of incompetents."

    Err, why did they all vote for him then? I struggle to believe people can be politically aware enough to join conhome but not have known who Boris really was in 2019.

    The truth is they did not mind the corruption or lies when they thought he was on their side. If he can re-frame it so he is on their side again, he will be fine.
    Because all politics is relative. In 2019 you voted for a government led by Boris or one led by Jezza.

    And in 2019 no other way was available (except Labour unicorns) out of the Brexit mire.

    Nah, Con Home is where Boris fever took hold and brought down the existing Tory government. They choose Boris over Cameron, May, Javid, Gove, Stewart and Hunt, not just over Corbyn.
    Quite right too, he was by far the best candidate at the time. He got the country out of the Brexit morass and saw off Corbyn with an 80 seat majority. Mission accomplished!

    The problem is that voters don't (and shouldn't) do gratitude. That's done now, he's served his purpose, the question is who's best for the future and right now it seems hard to think that Boris is the answer.
    Out of the morass? Bit early to claim that. UK split legally and economically as well as geographically, inward customs still not implemented, and so on. But it's Friday evening and dinner calls. Night all.
    Yes we are out of the morass. We were in a mess with an agreement with a backstop that Parliament quite rightly wouldn't back, but nor would they back anything else. Article 50 just kept being extended and there were no viable alternatives.

    Boris had a solution for that, Hunt and May didn't. So the members made the right choice.

    Yes there may be issues going forwards, but that's the future's problem. That's not the same as the problems of the past. As I said, Boris dealt with the problems we had then, that's not the same thing as saying he'll be best for the problems of the future.
    La La La La La
    Why don't you regale us all with the one about how the UK Treasury will be paying an independent Scotland's pensions?
    Away you cretin , losers always whine when found out , typical lying Tory. I said they would hav eto pay up as part of teh settlement and that would cover the pension payments Scots had made. Another snivelling little Tory jessie boy, GIRUY.
    You haven't made any pension payments. Your generation never bothered saving anything for pensions, you instead accrued pension liabilities instead.
    You really are thick, I am getting the state pension I contributed to for 50 years and I also have a shedload in personal pension and I don't pay NI. You on the other hand will hopefully get F all , your just desserts for being such a bellend.
    Sorry but you're the thickie

    You never contributed to the state pension, there is no state pension pot. There is no pile of cash marked "pension contributions" that you contributed towards that you're now drawing down or can be distributed to Scotland upon independence.

    Pensions are a liability, not a saving or something you've contributed to. You've fallen for a lie if you thought it was something you had.
    Yet I get sent my state pension every 4 weeks and get increases regularly, even got my winter fuel payment recently. You think they are paying me for nothing.
    No, I think they are paying you bribes with our taxes in order to try and get your vote.
    Oh Dear, even for you that is crass.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    I don’t understand all the fuss. Who better to investigate a party that never happened than somebody who attended it?
    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1471928668628869127
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326
    kinabalu said:

    Case is off the case, I see.

    No doubt Lord Geidt will now be summoned to give a clean bill of health to the illegal Xmas parties legal after-work gatherings.

    The incompetence is beyond belief. Setting aside for a moment the absurdity of pretending such an investigation was going to be independent, how on earth could they not have spotted that Case himself was likely to be implicated in the stuff that he was investigating?

    There's a fundamental lack of basic competence, let alone integrity, at the heart of government at the moment. If I were a Tory, I'd be very worried. Luckily, I'm not.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,443
    kinabalu said:

    Case is off the case, I see.

    Good evening IIRC you wondered recently when I would suggest that the odds were other than about equal between the next GE giving us a Tory majority or a centre left Labour led alliance of some sort (then at about 45+% each, with the remainder being the small chance of a Labour government.)

    The answer is Now. I was wrong in thinking that the Tories would scrape home yesterday at NS, and I think the result shifts the balance.

    Recent events greatly increase the chance that Boris will not fight the next election. He is good at elections. There is no candidate to replace him obviously good at elections. There is a danger of an unelectable candidate, and no certainty of a good one. The centre left voters may be getting better at tactical voting making marginal gains. Labour are getting better at not giving hostages.

  • Leon said:

    Farooq said:

    Leon said:

    Case is off the partygate case because of an alleged case under Case

    It is possible to imagine someone in Downing Street uttering THIS sentence at about 4pm this afternoon:


    "Who's on the Case case? Case?"

    We could even have heard a


    "Who is on the Case case case? Case?"

    Obviously still not as good as the immortal

    Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo
    The Buffalo one is rubbish. You invariably have to explain the verb form of the word to people. Nobody here uses that word.
    Of course it's rubbish. The important thing is that it is grammatically correct and makes a coherent assertion

    English is a brilliantly mad language
    The fucking fucker's fucking fucked.

    Or

    Fuck! The fucking fucker's fucking fucked. Fuck!
    That's nothing. The word "set" has 91 different English meanings according to the Wiktionary.

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/set

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,663
    https://ricette.giallozafferano.it/Ragu-alla-bolognese.html

    This is a good recipe, made it a few times. Google translate does a good enough job of you don't speak Italian.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,256

    kinabalu said:

    Case is off the case, I see.

    No doubt Lord Geidt will now be summoned to give a clean bill of health to the illegal Xmas parties legal after-work gatherings.

    The incompetence is beyond belief. Setting aside for a moment the absurdity of pretending such an investigation was going to be independent, how on earth could they not have spotted that Case himself was likely to be implicated in the stuff that he was investigating?

    There's a fundamental lack of basic competence, let alone integrity, at the heart of government at the moment. If I were a Tory, I'd be very worried. Luckily, I'm not.
    Thick as mince despite having aquired supposed fancy degree's.
  • Scott_xP said:

    I don’t understand all the fuss. Who better to investigate a party that never happened than somebody who attended it?
    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1471928668628869127

    Perfectly sums up Boris Britain.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited December 2021
    I give up betting on by-elections.

    I completely misread the signs throughout the campaign and count.

    Well done @MikeSmithson @Pulpstar and others who made money. I’ll pay more attention to your posts in future!
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,797
    MaxPB said:

    This scenario from Imperial, for a hypothetical LMIC "with substantial prior transmission and low vaccine access", says a country like South Africa will see 6,000 Omicron deaths *a day* (current 7-day average: 31)

    Sorry, I'm not a maths-brain, but this can't possibly be right.


    https://twitter.com/RufusSG

    It's absurd. This is what they've been reduced to in order to push for more lockdowns. It's almost like they're addicted to having this power over everyone's lives and don't want to give it up.

    Go on Boris, listen to them, try and go for restrictions. Please. It's time for the nation to be rid of you.
    I think that's a bit OTT but I am struggling to understand it.

    CFR in South Africa has gone through the floor. Now there could be a lag effect but there comes a point where you have to start believing it's a milder variant.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,326
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    Case is off the case, I see.

    No doubt Lord Geidt will now be summoned to give a clean bill of health to the illegal Xmas parties legal after-work gatherings.

    The incompetence is beyond belief. Setting aside for a moment the absurdity of pretending such an investigation was going to be independent, how on earth could they not have spotted that Case himself was likely to be implicated in the stuff that he was investigating?

    There's a fundamental lack of basic competence, let alone integrity, at the heart of government at the moment. If I were a Tory, I'd be very worried. Luckily, I'm not.
    Thick as mince despite having aquired supposed fancy degree's.
    I do hope you're not referring to me? (Anyway, I can spell acquired).
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,833
    Guardian: As the storm clouds gather, Conservative MPs are united in believing that if the government is to regain the public’s trust, Johnson will have to change his approach significantly – but divided about whether he is capable of doing so. “He has to take some drastic action. He needs to show tangible action to show he gets it,” said one frontbencher.

    Johnson has few genuine friends in the parliamentary Conservative party, and his popularity with colleagues was always contingent on his campaigning prowess. Yet one fear his MPs now have is that the very qualities that once made Johnson a winner with the public – his roguishness and devil-may-care approach to politics and life in general – are precisely those that have become electorally toxic.

    Paula Surridge, an elections expert at the University of Bristol, said: “My instinct is that he’s in real trouble now, because I think what you’re getting is a blend of the grief and anger and emotion of the last 18 months attaching itself to these endless stories of parties and rule-breaking, and I think that’s going to be a really dangerous combination and really difficult for both Boris Johnson and the Conservative party more generally to shake off.

    But senior MPs are also sceptical about how much Johnson is likely to be able to sharpen up his act. “It’s not about ‘Downing Street’, it’s him,” one minister said. “We have the problems we have because either he’s caused them, or his whole approach means other people do things they really shouldn’t. So it will be down to what he chooses to do.”

  • TimT said:

    IanB2 said:

    Any Italians on the site? Can you give me an authentic bolognese recipe?

    Spaghetti bolognese isn’t actually a genuine Italian dish.

    Google spaghetti al ragu.
    This is the best I've tried. Slow cooking in mik - seems odd but wow, the flavour is stupendous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/wordofmouth/2010/nov/25/how-to-make-perfect-bolognese
    best ragu I have ever made, alas behind the pay wall of $1: https://www.177milkstreet.com/recipes/ragú-bolognese
    I use Claudia Rosen's recipe. Diced veg, mince, bacon, red wine, stock, tomato puree, slow cooked. Stir in cream towards the end The most important thing is to serve with flat pasta, fettuccine or tagliatelle. Mince just doesn't stick to spaghetti. Matching pasta to the sauce is an important part of Italian cuisine we ignore.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,922
    NEW Simon Case's investigation will be concluded by Sue Gray, former propriety and ethics chief, Downing Street has announced https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1471931396138672132/photo/1
  • Scott_xP said:

    I don’t understand all the fuss. Who better to investigate a party that never happened than somebody who attended it?
    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/status/1471928668628869127

    It is either Kafka or Armando - take your pick.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,878
    edited December 2021
    MaxPB said:

    This scenario from Imperial, for a hypothetical LMIC "with substantial prior transmission and low vaccine access", says a country like South Africa will see 6,000 Omicron deaths *a day* (current 7-day average: 31)

    Sorry, I'm not a maths-brain, but this can't possibly be right.


    https://twitter.com/RufusSG

    It's absurd. This is what they've been reduced to in order to push for more lockdowns. It's almost like they're addicted to having this power over everyone's lives and don't want to give it up.

    Go on Boris, listen to them, try and go for restrictions. Please. It's time for the nation to be rid of you.
    Next Tory leader Mark Harper. You heard it here first.

    66:1 by the way.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,280
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW Simon Case's investigation will be concluded by Sue Gray, former propriety and ethics chief, Downing Street has announced https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1471931396138672132/photo/1

    I would love it, just love it if she was there too...
  • maaarsh said:

    Any Italians on the site? Can you give me an authentic bolognese recipe?

    Add milk, thank me later.

    And you're after a Ragu - in Bologna they don't do what you want.
    You sound like you know, can you give me your recipe? :)
  • MaxPB said:

    861,306 booster vaccinations in 🇬🇧 yesterday (469,479 the previous Thursday)

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 739,867 (including me, wahey)
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 63,327
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 34,012
    NI 24,100

    If its literally yesterday I was in those figures too, though I always suspect there's a 2-days lag on the data.

    Getting close to a million now. Its going to peak lower than I thought because its going to run out of people to jab.
    Plus firsts and seconds I think we may get pretty close to 1m doses overall and we're still probably not at full capacity utilisation.
    It's on the dashboard now, 935,000. Good to see 1st and 2nd doses up to c 70,000
  • Johnson's administration really does now have a fin de siecle feel to it. Decadence, decay, corruption.

    Putrid to the very core.

  • If it's not bolognese I want, please can I have a genuine recipe for the genuine thing it is, if possible :)
This discussion has been closed.