Question – cannot believe how bad things in education, what can you do for them?
Sunak – most powerful way to transform lives. Record investment in schools and transforming education. Best readers in the world. Starmer – pattern here, teachers say education broken and PM trying to avoid last 14 years. Schools we need more teachers. 6500 more teachers to fill gaps. Moderator – why raise VAT onprivate schools? Starmer – all kids need core teachers, state schools need more teachers, get rid of tax break a tough choice (gets applause) but needed. Sunak – Don’t agree, people who work hard should have that freedom. You heard him, he will raise taxes. Not ending here. £2000 for every kids (audience grumble at repeated line perhaps). Starmer – classic pretend labour policy to treasurer, get a false readout. What they put in for analysis is not our policy.
Moderator doesn't want them to talk about specific figure
Asks for similarities in position - will you raise income tax (both no), raise NI (both no), other than private schoosl won't raise VAT (both no).
Good vision moment for their opponents who think they are both the same, and to pin them down on how to pay for things.
Starmer gets applause about non-dom loopholes, and on oil and gas tax rises.
Rishi says non-dom already scrapped. Goes back to civil servants on Labour policies. Triple lock plus, but he doesn't address how he will pay for things. Starmer not bad, but could be firmer, Rishi is confident but a bit too repetitive
Moderator still letting Rishi talk over Starmer - he is enjoying getting to ask questions for a change.
Sunak is a brilliant leader of the opposition. This government sound like right load of Bastards. thank God Sunak has a plan to fix all of their mistakes.
Right. TV debates. Basically the worst possible way to spend an evening. I'm starting with this. I do not rule out escalating to rum and possibly arsenic."
Oh dear Sunak after a good start implodes on the NHS question .
Suck it up and go private !
If you can afford to go private you get faster care and you free NHS capacity for those who can't. What exactly is wrong with that? Starmer is not bothered about his relatives dying. Well, at least he is consistent.
Starmer’s pension tax could sway a lot of votes tonight.
Which is ?
A figment of MoonRabbit's imagination....
Sunak's repeated "Starmer's pension tax" over and over. Every time Starmer tried to refute, Sunak starts shouting over him. Really poor behaviour, but it might cut through.
Sunak is a brilliant leader of the opposition. This government sound like right load of Bastards. thank God Sunak has a plan to fix all of their mistakes.
Given that TheScreamingEagles is hospital bound with an abscess and rcs1000 has an elderly father to worry about, I should imagine PB will be in the no-fucks-given zone for some time. This is not the time to mess around...
Right. TV debates. Basically the worst possible way to spend an evening. I'm starting with this. I do not rule out escalating to rum and possibly arsenic."
Well Starmer's a liar on the private healthcare point.
How do you know?
Anyone who says if they have a choice between paying a few grand (that they have to hand) or letting their family member die they'll go for the die option they're a liar.
First impressions - Sunak trying hard, has a few clear lines to take about lack of Labour plan (but also Labour have a lot of plans to raise Tax), Starmer bringing back to record of last 14 years and Rishi trying to avoid responsibility.
Sunak aggressive, but light on detail. Starmer not sure how to respond to the interruptions, but has had the stronger reaction moments.
Martin Lewis @MartinSLewis So it seems the raise taxes £2,000 line is done by costing the Labour spending proposals and then calculating the impact pro-rata. Now of course even if correct it doesn't have to come from tax it could be from borrowing etc. #ITVdebate
Question – immigration – so many broken promises, why should I trust you to do anything
(silly question – ask what they plan to do please) Sunak – immigration is too high, both legal immigration needs tobe capped and illegal immigration. Flights in July if I am PM, Starmer will release them and no deterrent. Stick to our plan. Starmer – Levels of migration at record highs, never been that high save in last year. PM says it is too high, well who is in charge. Most liberal PM on immigration (clearly said to anger Reform I expect). He promises, like with NHS< he would stop boats, So far 10000 have crossed. Record. He’s failed to keep promise. (No answer on his plans though). Sunak – choice is about the future (he’s used this line several times). You have to remove illegals. Planes will go to Rwanda. What will Starmer do to illegals? Starmer – Smash gangs running trade (applause), I prosecured terrorist gangs, I can bring down this. Won’t do gimmicks. If it would work he would not have c alled election Sunak – we put laws to put 1000 criminals in prison. He voted against. Says one thing does another (gets applause) Starmer – why are numbers higher? Sunak – it’s a challenge.
Away from debateageddon, Labour might have problems in Barking. Having eased out the previous candidate for alleged conduct issues. The candidate they’ve imposed in his stead seems far from squeaky clean in that area.
Martin Lewis @MartinSLewis So it seems the raise taxes £2,000 line is done by costing the Labour spending proposals and then calculating the impact pro-rata. Now of course even if correct it doesn't have to come from tax it could be from borrowing etc. #ITVdebate
Following the Truss debacle I don't think Labour would risk funding much of it from borrowing.
Sunak says he is clear about EHRC, gets some applause, still not totally direct on leaving it, but heavy implication. Starmer applause on saying he won't do that.
Comments
For someone so interested in politics I have a serious aversion to actual politicians.
Suck it up and go private !
Starmer talking about Liz fucking Truss.
Why shouldn’t pensioners pay tax on the state pension ?
Erm, pensioners already pay tax.
Sunak – most powerful way to transform lives. Record investment in schools and transforming education. Best readers in the world.
Starmer – pattern here, teachers say education broken and PM trying to avoid last 14 years. Schools we need more teachers. 6500 more teachers to fill gaps.
Moderator – why raise VAT onprivate schools?
Starmer – all kids need core teachers, state schools need more teachers, get rid of tax break a tough choice (gets applause) but needed.
Sunak – Don’t agree, people who work hard should have that freedom. You heard him, he will raise taxes. Not ending here. £2000 for every kids (audience grumble at repeated line perhaps).
Starmer – classic pretend labour policy to treasurer, get a false readout. What they put in for analysis is not our policy.
Moderator doesn't want them to talk about specific figure
Asks for similarities in position - will you raise income tax (both no), raise NI (both no), other than private schoosl won't raise VAT (both no).
Good vision moment for their opponents who think they are both the same, and to pin them down on how to pay for things.
Starmer gets applause about non-dom loopholes, and on oil and gas tax rises.
Rishi says non-dom already scrapped. Goes back to civil servants on Labour policies. Triple lock plus, but he doesn't address how he will pay for things.
Starmer not bad, but could be firmer, Rishi is confident but a bit too repetitive
Moderator still letting Rishi talk over Starmer - he is enjoying getting to ask questions for a change.
In that case pensioners should be happy they have had such a large rise in the state pension instead of whining.
Can you rule out cuts? Starmer says won’t do austerity, Rishi waffled. But yes/no questions are dumb anyway.
Right. TV debates. Basically the worst possible way to spend an evening. I'm starting with this. I do not rule out escalating to rum and possibly arsenic."
https://x.com/IanDunt/status/1798081859160805807
Sunak had some good lines.
I can't see it changing anyone's mind?
Any decent debate lets people respond to what is said. Shockingly bad.
Sunak aggressive, but light on detail. Starmer not sure how to respond to the interruptions, but has had the stronger reaction moments.
I think most people would be hard pressed to remember anything.
Oh well, you've got to give it to him if he's winning something.
Not sure it will change any votes
They should just mute the other mic when speaking, SKS has interrupted Rishi too
Yuck.
See the 'granny tax' for a classic case of oldies whining after being given extra.
https://x.com/MartinSLewis/status/1798090620822552655
Martin Lewis @MartinSLewis
So it seems the raise taxes £2,000 line is done by costing the Labour spending proposals and then calculating the impact pro-rata. Now of course even if correct it doesn't have to come from tax it could be from borrowing etc. #ITVdebate
Looking forward to the 7 way debates
(silly question – ask what they plan to do please)
Sunak – immigration is too high, both legal immigration needs tobe capped and illegal immigration. Flights in July if I am PM, Starmer will release them and no deterrent. Stick to our plan.
Starmer – Levels of migration at record highs, never been that high save in last year. PM says it is too high, well who is in charge. Most liberal PM on immigration (clearly said to anger Reform I expect).
He promises, like with NHS< he would stop boats, So far 10000 have crossed. Record. He’s failed to keep promise. (No answer on his plans though).
Sunak – choice is about the future (he’s used this line several times). You have to remove illegals. Planes will go to Rwanda. What will Starmer do to illegals?
Starmer – Smash gangs running trade (applause), I prosecured terrorist gangs, I can bring down this. Won’t do gimmicks. If it would work he would not have c alled election
Sunak – we put laws to put 1000 criminals in prison. He voted against. Says one thing does another (gets applause)
Starmer – why are numbers higher?
Sunak – it’s a challenge.
Almost a real debate for a moment there
https://x.com/tomorrowsmps/status/1798090379859734821?s=61
I know this is probably an impossible question to ask in an election campaign where everyone is very invested, including me, but...
Does anyone have an objective take on how well Starmer and Sunak have done here please?
Sunak is delivering the sort of performance I’d expect from him. God knows why he wants to do one of these a week.