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What’s tonight’s debate going to this betting market? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814

    30 minutes, people :lol:

    I won't be watching - I have a very low tolerance for cringe. I will rely on PB to tell me all about it.
    Oh! Mum says she's "embargoing" me from watching Rishi v. SKS on the living room TV, I'll have to watch it upstairs in my bedroom :lol:
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639

    30 minutes, people :lol:

    I won't be watching - I have a very low tolerance for cringe. I will rely on PB to tell me all about it.
    Oh! Mum says she's "embargoing" me from watching Rishi v. SKS on the living room TV, I'll have to watch it upstairs in my bedroom :lol:
    Or you can read the commentary on here...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491
    edited June 4

    Starmer could really wound Sunak tonight by working an “I agree with Nigel” into one of his answers.

    Yeah that would really cheer the Diane Abbott Appreciation Society ( Diane's PB Tory Fanclub obviously excepted).
    Although lines like “by the time of the 2nd debate in this campaign, I might be facing Nigel Farage over there” seems punchy, the best thing Starmer should do in this one is just ignore Farage, and just try to pin the cost of living pain, and all the other bits of pain this parliament, on the Conservative Party.

    Repeating the question Sunak got from a worker in the audience is probably the best punch of all Starmer can throw - after your VPN and all the lockdown partying, why should the voters ever trust you again?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,592
    I've just had a shock after clicking on a random YouTube video and immediately hearing Rachel Reeves' voice blaring out in a Labour advert.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    Starmer could really wound Sunak tonight by working an “I agree with Nigel” into one of his answers.

    It's slightly more likely that Sunak will seek attention by throwing a milkshake over Starmer.
    He could recreate his election announcement by tipping water over himself.
    And then proudly unfurling an umbrella in the studio and humming "Things can only get better"?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,058
    If the Tories did face an extinction level event taking them below 100 significantly (I think they'll avoid this...just) I wonder if the survivors will become famous figures of legend in years to come. It is not always the case that places which survive such an event represent the true strongholds which will never be lost after all.

    One of the facts that always astounds me is that of the 8 seats the LDs retained in 2015, they only hold 2 of them today, both with the same MP

    Orkney and Shetland
    Westmoreland and Lonsdale

    In some of the others they are still in contention and will probably win them back (as they have already won back several lost in 2015), but in others despite holding on in 2015 they are falling back and and are not even close for second anymore like Leeds North West.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491
    Let’s be honest, this is the most difficult of elections to poll, especially MRP and seat forecast, is it not? Tories could get anything between 180 and, depending if they struggle to squeeze Reform, struggle with sit on their hands former voters, and/or hit by pin point tactical voting, fall as low as 100. That’s a lot of wide variables.

    I’m to think, if Con don’t get much swingback on the polls from here, to finish 9 to 15 behind, that bigger gap more than 10, and evidence tactical LLG votes been so precise in elections this parliament it’s been pushing election results to the worst case of expectations every time for the Conservatives, they can end up on lower end of 100-180 MPs. They really can 😩

    Sunak and the people he’s surrounded himself with in decision making, is a far bigger reason for how bad it is at this election, than putting greater blame on Boris and Truss. If you go down to historic and unthinkable low of near to 100 seats, there’s no convincing argument it would have been even worse than that if Boris was leading. A charming rascal always fairs better than a charmless man, as sure as the alpha male always beats the beta… the harder the beta male tries, the more they emit they just haven’t got it. Are we about to see that tonight?

    Makes you wonder how many of those historical election results also was decided on the presidential aspect of leader v leader, rather than USP built by their parties?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,633
    Oh man , a whole month still to go. Aarrgghh.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491
    edited June 4

    30 minutes, people :lol:

    I won't be watching - I have a very low tolerance for cringe. I will rely on PB to tell me all about it.
    Oh! Mum says she's "embargoing" me from watching Rishi v. SKS on the living room TV, I'll have to watch it upstairs in my bedroom :lol:
    You should listen to your mother. It won’t do you any good to watch this.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,232

    Leon said:

    In all seriousness, if Putin bombing the fuck out of Uke infra means no aircon and no electric fans then JEEZZ

    Odessa is HOT and humid in the summer

    "In all seriousness..." Unspoofable.
    I’m saying that being here in Odessa brings home what a life without reliable mains power is like. Everywhere has portable generators. Aircon is an unrealistic luxury. The internet can go off any moment. Mobile signal itself can end. All electric transactions can become unfeasible at any moment. No lights after 9pm. And so on

    Apply that to your own daily life
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    ukelect said:

    The first UK-Elect forecast of this campaign has been published on the UK-Elect website ( www.ukelect.co.uk ). It is based on the national and regional opinion poll averages and shows a Labour majority of "only" 154. (Lab 401, Con 178, LD 31, SNP 16). https://www.ukelect.co.uk/HTML/forecasts/20240604ForecastUK.html

    Is this done on UNS? I note your Independent in Devon. Not a criticism - just asking for clarification
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,058

    I don’t get the kind of thinking that is saying “The Tories will get 150+ seats minimum simply because that is what always happens”

    Everything is ‘as it always was’…until it isn’t.

    The underlying circumstances are very different this time compared with previous elections.

    That doesn’t mean Labour will win 450+ seats by any means, but you can’t simply look at results that ‘feel’ more realistic and claim that they are simply because they are closer to previous seat totals.

    Indeed. People may be getting caught up in events and overexcited, most of the time things remain boring and normal after all, but you do get those tipping point moments.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    ukelect said:

    ToryJim said:

    ukelect said:

    The first UK-Elect forecast of this campaign has been published on the UK-Elect website ( www.ukelect.co.uk ). It is based on the national and regional opinion poll averages and shows a Labour majority of "only" 154. (Lab 401, Con 178, LD 31, SNP 16). https://www.ukelect.co.uk/HTML/forecasts/20240604ForecastUK.html

    Plausible, and the Tories would breathe a sigh of relief.
    There are a lot of very close seats, however, and it is very easy to slightly adjust the algorithm, (or to perhaps use summed win probabilities rather than first place in each constituency) and "achieve" a Labour majority 20+ greater.
    Indeed, I’m sure there’s a lot of uncertainty. The current situation and movements of voters from the last election is probably at the point of maximum potential iterations in terms of seats. All very confusing.
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    As another poster said earlier, and this is an imperfect comparison, but… Labour got 202 seats in 2019 with 32.1% of the vote.

    The Tories are currently polling at around 8% less than that, and have the threat of the LDs in many seats and a resurgent Reform in others, even if you ignore Labour.

    Let’s not forget at that election, Reform/BXP stood down in Tory seats, which they aren’t doing now.

    Starmer doesn’t scare many Tory voters like Corbyn did, and they have more attractive alternatives.

    Really don’t see how they magically get back to 30-35% / 200 seats ish simply because ‘that’s what *should* happen’. It will require substantive things in the campaign to happen if it does at all.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The woman who hurled a milkshake over Nigel Farage as he launched his campaign to become an MP is a Jeremy Corbyn-supporting OnlyFans model who hails from a family of Brexiteers, MailOnline can reveal. Victoria Thomas-Bowen, 25, was arrested by police on suspicion of assault after she drenched the new Reform leader as he stepped out of a Wetherspoons in Clacton, Essex.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13494115/I-just-felt-like-Woman-25-arrested-throwing-milkshake-Nigel-Farage-doesnt-represent-believe-Reform-UK-leader-incident-frightening.html

    I am going to guess she thought great idea to pull a stunt like this to increase his OF following.

    OnlyFans has been in the news a lot recently.
    OnlyFans, OnlyFans, Pray what is this OnlyFans I keep hearing of ?
    Girls getting their goodies out for paying tiktok subscribers and other sex stuff
    Ding Dong !!
    I'm told you can smell the stench of sweat and shame through the screen.
    I prefer a good magazine with features
    Razzle Readers Wives Summer Special ?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,633
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    In all seriousness, if Putin bombing the fuck out of Uke infra means no aircon and no electric fans then JEEZZ

    Odessa is HOT and humid in the summer

    "In all seriousness..." Unspoofable.
    I’m saying that being here in Odessa brings home what a life without reliable mains power is like. Everywhere has portable generators. Aircon is an unrealistic luxury. The internet can go off any moment. Mobile signal itself can end. All electric transactions can become unfeasible at any moment. No lights after 9pm. And so on

    Apply that to your own daily life
    We’d miss the debate. Silver linings and all that.
  • That MRP is just rubbish.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,651

    Evening everyone. Certain poll companies are coming out with polls that have the intention of scaring Tory voters to come out and vote for their party. In reality the Tories will end up with 150 to 200 seats. From now to election night we will have to endure being told the party will get 60 to 80 seats etc. This is pure fantasy. No matter how unpopluar they are it will not happen.There may be people on here who believe this is the case or they say on their posts that they agree with these polls. However I doubt anyone is prepared to put their money where their mouth is and lay a bet down on this outcome even if they argue in favour of it on here. Most of us know this is not going to happen. Time will tell and we will soon have the election results thank goddness!

    No. The poll companies are not 'coming out with polls that have the intention of scaring Tory voters to come out and vote for their party'.

    The polls may prove to be right or they may prove to be wrong but there is no intent to influence voting among any of the polling companies quoted on here.
    Has Trafalgar published any UK "polling" yet?
    We don't seem to be plagued with rogue or deliberately biased polling companies in the UK fortunately.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,707
    Probability summing would be correct over independent "events". But that is not so across constituencies in an election. Moreover the MRP methodology itself implies correlation between constituencies with similar composition.
  • A 10 point Labour lead in Scotland?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    30 minutes, people :lol:

    I won't be watching - I have a very low tolerance for cringe. I will rely on PB to tell me all about it.
    Oh! Mum says she's "embargoing" me from watching Rishi v. SKS on the living room TV, I'll have to watch it upstairs in my bedroom :lol:
    Sent to his room by his mum. Bless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,058
    I hope someone is tracking all the various current MPs now standing for new (minor) parties or as independents. It's often done in a fit of pique and results in a small voteshare, but it'd be interesting to see which ones perform best.

    For example, according to Wiki Angus MacNeil is standing in Na h-Eileanan an Iar, as an independent not for Alba (maybe that will change).
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,859
    FYI The Rest is Politics post-debate livestream at 10pm
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SHLx7LOlRg
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411

    Evening everyone. Certain poll companies are coming out with polls that have the intention of scaring Tory voters to come out and vote for their party. In reality the Tories will end up with 150 to 200 seats. From now to election night we will have to endure being told the party will get 60 to 80 seats etc. This is pure fantasy. No matter how unpopluar they are it will not happen.There may be people on here who believe this is the case or they say on their posts that they agree with these polls. However I doubt anyone is prepared to put their money where their mouth is and lay a bet down on this outcome even if they argue in favour of it on here. Most of us know this is not going to happen. Time will tell and we will soon have the election results thank goddness!

    No. The poll companies are not 'coming out with polls that have the intention of scaring Tory voters to come out and vote for their party'.

    The polls may prove to be right or they may prove to be wrong but there is no intent to influence voting among any of the polling companies quoted on here.
    Has Trafalgar published any UK "polling" yet?
    We don't seem to be plagued with rogue or deliberately biased polling companies in the UK fortunately.
    I've seen some polling I thought was naughty push polling before. I can't even remember what it was for or who the pushing looked to be on behalf of, but I remember mentioning it here.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737
    With pollsters you must make up your own minds.

    I'm sure we all have some that we take more seriously than others. I'm looking at past electoral records and relative stability (outside of events like Johnson taking over from May or Johnson's Government imploding or the Kamikwaze Budget).

    MRPs are a dark art all of their own. YouGov may be better at them than they are at standard polling. Survation are probably the reverse of that.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Evening everyone. Certain poll companies are coming out with polls that have the intention of scaring Tory voters to come out and vote for their party. In reality the Tories will end up with 150 to 200 seats. From now to election night we will have to endure being told the party will get 60 to 80 seats etc. This is pure fantasy. No matter how unpopluar they are it will not happen.There may be people on here who believe this is the case or they say on their posts that they agree with these polls. However I doubt anyone is prepared to put their money where their mouth is and lay a bet down on this outcome even if they argue in favour of it on here. Most of us know this is not going to happen. Time will tell and we will soon have the election results thank goddness!

    No. The poll companies are not 'coming out with polls that have the intention of scaring Tory voters to come out and vote for their party'.

    The polls may prove to be right or they may prove to be wrong but there is no intent to influence voting among any of the polling companies quoted on here.
    Has Trafalgar published any UK "polling" yet?
    We don't seem to be plagued with rogue or deliberately biased polling companies in the UK fortunately.
    Was it @rcs1000 who conclusively proved via mathematical analysis that Bow Tie Bob simply - er - made his polls up?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043

    Starmer could really wound Sunak tonight by working an “I agree with Nigel” into one of his answers.

    He would certainly benefit from listening to my advice, but I deem that unlikely.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    As another poster said earlier, and this is an imperfect comparison, but… Labour got 202 seats in 2019 with 32.1% of the vote.

    The Tories are currently polling at around 8% less than that, and have the threat of the LDs in many seats and a resurgent Reform in others, even if you ignore Labour.

    Let’s not forget at that election, Reform/BXP stood down in Tory seats, which they aren’t doing now.

    Starmer doesn’t scare many Tory voters like Corbyn did, and they have more attractive alternatives.

    Really don’t see how they magically get back to 30-35% / 200 seats ish simply because ‘that’s what *should* happen’. It will require substantive things in the campaign to happen if it does at all.

    As I pointed out last week the Nowcasters are correct - because there is little reason why any voter will return to the tory party come the actual day of the election. SKS isn't Corbyn and won't scare them into voting Tory...
  • DeclanFDeclanF Posts: 42
    I wonder if this will be mentioned by the parties or the leaders: https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/04/met-chief-says-millions-of-men-are-danger-to-women-and-girls-in-england-and-wales.

    And the Shadow Defence Secretary's dismissal yesterday of women's safety as a "distraction".

    Crime - especially against the vulnerable - should surely be a key issue.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,058

    A 10 point Labour lead in Scotland?

    Labour: The saviours of the Union?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491
    I’m expecting Rishi to throw the zinger I have given him: Starmer’s planned tax raid on struggling private schools, so beloved in their community and so vital to that aspiration of families that made UK so great in the first place, shows the real cheeks of Starmer’s arse. It will make Starmer stumble. He will have no answer. The media can then hammer it home over the next 4 weeks and reshape the polling.

    Watch for it - MoonRabbit’s Hay Maker!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    FYI The Rest is Politics post-debate livestream at 10pm
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SHLx7LOlRg

    Nice tip thanks
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Let’s be honest, this is the most difficult of elections to poll, especially MRP and seat forecast, is it not? Tories could get anything between 180 and, depending if they struggle to squeeze Reform, struggle with sit on their hands former voters, and/or hit by pin point tactical voting, fall as low as 100. That’s a lot of wide variables.

    I’m to think, if Con don’t get much swingback on the polls from here, to finish 9 to 15 behind, that bigger gap more than 10, and evidence tactical LLG votes been so precise in elections this parliament it’s been pushing election results to the worst case of expectations every time for the Conservatives, they can end up on lower end of 100-180 MPs. They really can 😩

    Sunak and the people he’s surrounded himself with in decision making, is a far bigger reason for how bad it is at this election, than putting greater blame on Boris and Truss. If you go down to historic and unthinkable low of near to 100 seats, there’s no convincing argument it would have been even worse than that if Boris was leading. A charming rascal always fairs better than a charmless man, as sure as the alpha male always beats the beta… the harder the beta male tries, the more they emit they just haven’t got it. Are we about to see that tonight?

    Makes you wonder how many of those historical election results also was decided on the presidential aspect of leader v leader, rather than USP built by their parties?

    If the Tories poll in the low 20s it's possible they will end up with a lot less than 100 seats...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813

    With pollsters you must make up your own minds.

    I'm sure we all have some that we take more seriously than others. I'm looking at past electoral records and relative stability (outside of events like Johnson taking over from May or Johnson's Government imploding or the Kamikwaze Budget).

    MRPs are a dark art all of their own. YouGov may be better at them than they are at standard polling. Survation are probably the reverse of that.

    I also don’t envy pollsters this time around, because politics has changed so dramatically since 2019, and it must be very hard to build methodology to deal with it.

    One question that interests me is whether we’re seeing the return of the commonly overstated Labour vote, which was often a thing during the Blair/Brown years.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    So, just before the first debate starts, the position is:

    Tories called a snap election 20 points behind
    Tories keep sliding further and further behind in normal polls
    Tories heading further and further into the abyss with every passing MRP poll
    Farage just getting started to chop the Tories into pieces

    Sunak will - I suspect - be tetchy, angry and quite aggressive in the debate. He has a PLAN. Starmer is Jimmy SAVILLE. Why isn't ANYONE LISTENING?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    This is hilarious, Gillian Keegan turned up in Winchester a day earlier than she should have to launch the local campaign. Just risible at this stage.

    https://x.com/brianklaas/status/1798063575606722775?s=61
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    As another poster said earlier, and this is an imperfect comparison, but… Labour got 202 seats in 2019 with 32.1% of the vote.

    The Tories are currently polling at around 8% less than that, and have the threat of the LDs in many seats and a resurgent Reform in others, even if you ignore Labour.

    Let’s not forget at that election, Reform/BXP stood down in Tory seats, which they aren’t doing now.

    Starmer doesn’t scare many Tory voters like Corbyn did, and they have more attractive alternatives.

    Really don’t see how they magically get back to 30-35% / 200 seats ish simply because ‘that’s what *should* happen’. It will require substantive things in the campaign to happen if it does at all.


    I think the strongest case for why "it can't be as bad as all that" for the Tories is simply that, being in uncharted territory, we've stretched our models beyond their useful limits. But that's a better argument for saying "we don't know"!

    The rest of the campaign is going to be so important. Do the Tories panic and risk making things worse? Is hubris a danger for Labour - and, if so, is there time for nemesis to strike? Will Starmer drop the Ming vase? Will one of his candidates wrestle it from him and smash it to the ground?

    Let's hope that tonight's debate gives us some clues!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Peter said:

    This may also change things at the margin. MSM now acknowledging covid jabs may be dangerous.
    this from Dr Aseem Malhotra.

    BREAKING FRONT PAGE TELEGRAPH

    ‘Covid jab may have led to rise in excess deaths’

    FINALLY mainstream media acknowledgement in U.K.

    We did it 🔥🔥🔥

    https://x.com/DrAseemMalhotra/status/1797922073798717524

    Is this a PB record, banned after ONE posting?
    One that may be equalled but never surpassed.
    I wouldn't be too sure.
    Robert is a tech early adopter. He'll be one of the first to implement the Vanilla Pre-crime module.
    X-Plain Vanilla

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,633
    L

    So, just before the first debate starts, the position is:

    Tories called a snap election 20 points behind
    Tories keep sliding further and further behind in normal polls
    Tories heading further and further into the abyss with every passing MRP poll
    Farage just getting started to chop the Tories into pieces

    Sunak will - I suspect - be tetchy, angry and quite aggressive in the debate. He has a PLAN. Starmer is Jimmy SAVILLE. Why isn't ANYONE LISTENING?

    If Sunak mentions Saville personally (rather than relying on outriders) we will know they’re really worried in cchq.
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    edited June 4
    I managed to lay 0 Reform seats yesterday at evens pre-Farage announcement and that is now trading at 4.9 Back / 11 Lay.

    I’m green also on a number of higher Reform seat totals which have shot down today. Still a ton of movement on Reform on similar markets, wondering if anyone else is monitoring them?

    Will likely trade out after Farage’s debate appearance depending on how that goes
  • FYI there's a live stream on YouTube for the debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heP8-evLKvA
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Andy_JS said:

    Tory seats with Survation MRP:

    Aberdeenshire North
    Dumfries
    Dumfriesshire
    Berwickshire
    Richmond & Northallerton (Rishi wins by 3.3%)
    Skipton
    Thisk
    Gainsborough
    Sleaford
    Boston
    Rutland
    Lichfield (Micky Fab holds on by 0.1%)
    Kingswinford & South Staffs
    North Shropshire (despite LD win in by-election)
    South Shropshire
    North Herefordshire
    Stratford
    Banbury
    Hitchin
    NW Essex (Kemi Badenoch wins by 2.3%)
    Maldon
    Brentwood
    Hornchurch
    Castle Point (by 1.1%)
    North Devon
    Tiverton
    Mid Dorset (despite being a LD seat between 2001 and 2015)
    North Dorset
    Salisbury
    Christchurch
    New Forest E
    New Forest W
    NE Hampshire
    NW Hampshire
    East Hampshire
    Hamble Valley
    Fareham
    Chippenham (despite being a LD seat recently)
    Melksham
    Aldershot
    Farnham
    Arundel
    Sussex Weald
    Tonbridge
    Sevenoaks
    East Surrey
    Surrey Heath (despite LDs hoping to win Gove's former seat)
    Maidenhead
    Beaconsfield
    Mid Bucks
    Ruislip (by 1%)
    Orpington

    South Holland and Deepings is missing. Surely not.....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    FPT - and related to a conversation being had a couple of hours ago - and of no importance really, but having spent ten minutes thinking about this, posting it and only then noticing the thread changedteo hours ago I'm buggered if I'm going to let it sit unnoticed on an old thread:
    Cookie said:

    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.

    The Hundred is just a ridiculous competition. The quality of player is little to no better than what you get in the T20 Blast. Although the eliminator is included in my Surrey membership and that is usually good fun.
    Its a total balls up in that the plan from the start was always to sell the competition and franchise to private equity. Who are the people with big bucks and into cricket, the Indians. What game do they want to promote, T20.

    I understand they want to widen participation, grow the game, get families involved etc. But they also need money and the big money is turning T20 into a world tour where players are signed to the SuperKings, who then play in India, SA, USA, Middle East etc. They have already signalled they aren't interested in the Hundred by setting up the MLC that runs at exactly the same time.
    Yep it's all very silly. Also as a spectator I can't help but feel a bit shortchanged when I go to matches. Too fast for the vibe of cricket.
    Its not for me. I don't have kids, so I find it too kid focused and I don't like the forced American hype. I understand that T20 international have got a bad rep for too much of drinking culture, but in my experience the atmosphere can be electric without the need to have a hype MC.

    I think they have it the wrong way around. T20 should be the elite competition, then another competition that is kid / family focused that might not have the best of the best, but cheap to go. You use the money from your profitable T20 competition to subsidise the family focused one.

    You find time for this by getting rid of 50 over cricket entirely.
    Agreed with all of that until the final para. You don't need to find time for it if it's nit an elite comp - you make it a bit B teamy.

    Reasons I prefer the T20 to the Hundred:
    - More overs
    - Same format as T20 the world over - rather than pointless tweaks which add nothing.
    - The fonts and purple/green graphics of the Hundred.
    - It's Lancashire, where my grandfather was a member and to which I therefore feel some affinity - not Manchester, which is made up. And Lancashire has bettet songs and Lanky the Giraffe.
    - The Hundred is like watching BBC3 - it's terrified it's going to lose your attention.
    - The music is better at the T20. Sweet Caroline/Papa's got a brand new pigbag/ Tom Hark. Rather than the 1Xtra shite they play at the Hundred in a desperate attempt to appeal to the youth.

    Reasons I prefer the Hundred:
    - It's in terrestrial telly.

    I used to also love the T20 because it was so wonderfully cheap - £8 for an adult and £1 for a child in 2019! - but those days are gone, sadly. You get players you've heard of now, but I didn't mind the B team aspect of it for that price.

    The atmosphere is good at both. Fill Old Trafford and you'll always have a good atmosphere. And both are genuinely brilliant for families. The Hundred had the double-header aspect - the women's game then the men's game - but the T20 appears to have adopted this too. It is in any case a double edged sword - more cricket is good, but my kids' attention probably doesn't extend to more than 40 overs of cricket yet.

    I prefer 50 over cricket to 20 over cricket. But having a whole day to watch cricket is a very rare luxury. I'm much more likely to be able to spare 3 hours than a whole day.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Did anyone have the necessary mental fortitude to sit through the tory leader debates? How shit was Sunak in those?

    I don't really expect the Gettysburg Address from SKS either. Whenever he speaks, no matter the subject, he sounds like a man reading the instructions for a dishwasher aloud at gunpoint.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Jonathan said:

    L

    So, just before the first debate starts, the position is:

    Tories called a snap election 20 points behind
    Tories keep sliding further and further behind in normal polls
    Tories heading further and further into the abyss with every passing MRP poll
    Farage just getting started to chop the Tories into pieces

    Sunak will - I suspect - be tetchy, angry and quite aggressive in the debate. He has a PLAN. Starmer is Jimmy SAVILLE. Why isn't ANYONE LISTENING?

    If Sunak mentions Saville personally (rather than relying on outriders) we will know they’re really worried in cchq.
    Odds on, surely. They think it’s a brilliant wheeze.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,058
    Dura_Ace said:

    Did anyone have the necessary mental fortitude to sit through the tory leader debates? How shit was Sunak in those?

    I don't really expect the Gettysburg Address from SKS either. Whenever he speaks, no matter the subject, he sounds like a man reading the instructions for a dishwasher aloud at gunpoint.

    But rigorously.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Dura_Ace said:

    Did anyone have the necessary mental fortitude to sit through the tory leader debates? How shit was Sunak in those?
    .

    He got beaten by Liz Truss.

    I need say no more.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    The Mail has done wonders for the milkshaker’s publicity drive by splattering raunchy pictures of her all over its website

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13494115/I-just-felt-like-Woman-25-arrested-throwing-milkshake-Nigel-Farage-doesnt-represent-believe-Reform-UK-leader-incident-frightening.html
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Its on...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,616
    Not sure this featured earlier:

    How much, if at all, do you want Nigel Farage to be elected to the House of Commons as an MP?

    All Britons
    A great deal/fair amount: 27%
    Not very much/not at all: 58%

    2019 Conservative voters
    A great deal/fair amount: 51%
    Not very much/not at all: 36%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1798025670401966205?t=F9bTmz5xQB5qu5LFS-dYJw&s=19
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    Cookie said:

    FPT - and related to a conversation being had a couple of hours ago - and of no importance really, but having spent ten minutes thinking about this, posting it and only then noticing the thread changedteo hours ago I'm buggered if I'm going to let it sit unnoticed on an old thread:

    Cookie said:

    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.

    The Hundred is just a ridiculous competition. The quality of player is little to no better than what you get in the T20 Blast. Although the eliminator is included in my Surrey membership and that is usually good fun.
    Its a total balls up in that the plan from the start was always to sell the competition and franchise to private equity. Who are the people with big bucks and into cricket, the Indians. What game do they want to promote, T20.

    I understand they want to widen participation, grow the game, get families involved etc. But they also need money and the big money is turning T20 into a world tour where players are signed to the SuperKings, who then play in India, SA, USA, Middle East etc. They have already signalled they aren't interested in the Hundred by setting up the MLC that runs at exactly the same time.
    Yep it's all very silly. Also as a spectator I can't help but feel a bit shortchanged when I go to matches. Too fast for the vibe of cricket.
    Its not for me. I don't have kids, so I find it too kid focused and I don't like the forced American hype. I understand that T20 international have got a bad rep for too much of drinking culture, but in my experience the atmosphere can be electric without the need to have a hype MC.

    I think they have it the wrong way around. T20 should be the elite competition, then another competition that is kid / family focused that might not have the best of the best, but cheap to go. You use the money from your profitable T20 competition to subsidise the family focused one.

    You find time for this by getting rid of 50 over cricket entirely.
    Agreed with all of that until the final para. You don't need to find time for it if it's nit an elite comp - you make it a bit B teamy.

    Reasons I prefer the T20 to the Hundred:
    - More overs
    - Same format as T20 the world over - rather than pointless tweaks which add nothing.
    - The fonts and purple/green graphics of the Hundred.
    - It's Lancashire, where my grandfather was a member and to which I therefore feel some affinity - not Manchester, which is made up. And Lancashire has bettet songs and Lanky the Giraffe.
    - The Hundred is like watching BBC3 - it's terrified it's going to lose your attention.
    - The music is better at the T20. Sweet Caroline/Papa's got a brand new pigbag/ Tom Hark. Rather than the 1Xtra shite they play at the Hundred in a desperate attempt to appeal to the youth.

    Reasons I prefer the Hundred:
    - It's in terrestrial telly.

    I used to also love the T20 because it was so wonderfully cheap - £8 for an adult and £1 for a child in 2019! - but those days are gone, sadly. You get players you've heard of now, but I didn't mind the B team aspect of it for that price.

    The atmosphere is good at both. Fill Old Trafford and you'll always have a good atmosphere. And both are genuinely brilliant for families. The Hundred had the double-header aspect - the women's game then the men's game - but the T20 appears to have adopted this too. It is in any case a double edged sword - more cricket is good, but my kids' attention probably doesn't extend to more than 40 overs of cricket yet.

    I prefer 50 over cricket to 20 over cricket. But having a whole day to watch cricket is a very rare luxury. I'm much more likely to be able to spare 3 hours than a whole day.
    Also, I took my parents to the T20 on Sunday and my mother - who I don't think has ever watched professional sport live before - absolutely loved it and asked to go again on Friday. A new enthusiasm for her mid-70s. It's not just about the kids.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Popcorn on standby
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Talking of inconveniences I’ve just realised that no mains power in Odessa = no aircon

    first world problems, eh?
    Given the frequent missile, drone and clusterbomb attacks on Odessa, evidenced by the damage all around me, I’m gonna say this is a bit worse than a “first world problem”

    However I suspect that was your sly intent, so fair enough! It is also very stimulating
    The ultimate first world problem I have encountered was in the hotel at Montrachet. Due to the chefs tasters between courses in the 11 course menu, you lose track of whether you are on course 7 or 8.
    I can report that the seaplanes between Maldivian 5 star hotels can get a bit hot. I once flew in 6 in 10 days and got mildly peeved by the end

    “Of FFS ANOTHER seaplane?? Where’s this one going? The Four Seasons? Bollocks to that”


    Etc
    The screeching noise that solid gold cutlery when you cut meat makes is simply painful to the ears


  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Foxy said:

    Not sure this featured earlier:

    How much, if at all, do you want Nigel Farage to be elected to the House of Commons as an MP?

    All Britons
    A great deal/fair amount: 27%
    Not very much/not at all: 58%

    2019 Conservative voters
    A great deal/fair amount: 51%
    Not very much/not at all: 36%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1798025670401966205?t=F9bTmz5xQB5qu5LFS-dYJw&s=19

    Yep: something might very well give there on those second sets of figures.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Here we go :lol:
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207
    ToryJim said:

    This is hilarious, Gillian Keegan turned up in Winchester a day earlier than she should have to launch the local campaign. Just risible at this stage.

    https://x.com/brianklaas/status/1798063575606722775?s=61

    FFS.

    One of the lenses to view an election campaign through is like one of Lordsiralan's Business Tasks on The Apprentice. No, it's not real, but how a party manages the complex logistics of a general election campaign is a decent hint of whether they're capable of running the country.

    See Labour 1983 if you don't believe me.

    Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that the current government can't arrange for their ministers to be in the right place on the right day, but it's very emblematic of something.

    (Poor Flick Drummond. Having lost the selection battle for Fareham, she's probably doomed anyway in Winchester, but this is not what she needs.)
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Oh god Sunak is already cringe.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,046
    Oh my god, this is awful.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Oh God. Sunak sounds as wooden as he did in that 2019 debate when he was thrown in as a Boris substitute...
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491
    Where’s the whites gone in Sunak’s eyes?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    David Boothroyd has posted this on the VoteUK forum.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/1244/survation?page=85

    "The underlying data doesn't match the seat numbers. If you look at who's leading in each seat, they go:

    Lab 505
    C 54
    L Dem 44
    SNP 24
    PC 2
    Ref UK 0"

    Yes they’ve used a probabilistic approach as outlined in their methodology, so e.g. if Reform have a 50% chance in 4 seats, they get 2 seats on the total.


    Hmmm... But the probabilities are linked, so if they have enough votes to win one of the four, then they probably have enough to win others.
    But there are two different uncertainties. One of which is linked and one of which is not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    edited June 4
    Cookie said:

    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Australian Test skipper Pat Cummins has signed a four-year deal to play for San Francisco Unicorns in Major League Cricket, the USA's franchise league. It's a big statement from MLC - its debut season was in July last year, so it's a big clash with the UK summer. The knock-on effect on player availability for The Hundred, which is already pretty limited, could be huge.

    If the Hundred going to become a tournament for the second tier talent, like European Tour of golf?

    The thing is not playing T20, rather a different game, it doesn't play into the Indian billionaire's dream of having a tour carnival of franchises, with players signed to the parent organisation, that go around the world playing T20 every other month in a different country.

    The Hundred is just a ridiculous competition. The quality of player is little to no better than what you get in the T20 Blast. Although the eliminator is included in my Surrey membership and that is usually good fun.
    Its a total balls up in that the plan from the start was always to sell the competition and franchise to private equity. Who are the people with big bucks and into cricket, the Indians. What game do they want to promote, T20.

    I understand they want to widen participation, grow the game, get families involved etc. But they also need money and the big money is turning T20 into a world tour where players are signed to the SuperKings, who then play in India, SA, USA, Middle East etc. They have already signalled they aren't interested in the Hundred by setting up the MLC that runs at exactly the same time.
    Yep it's all very silly. Also as a spectator I can't help but feel a bit shortchanged when I go to matches. Too fast for the vibe of cricket.
    Its not for me. I don't have kids, so I find it too kid focused and I don't like the forced American hype. I understand that T20 international have got a bad rep for too much of drinking culture, but in my experience the atmosphere can be electric without the need to have a hype MC.

    I think they have it the wrong way around. T20 should be the elite competition, then another competition that is kid / family focused that might not have the best of the best, but cheap to go. You use the money from your profitable T20 competition to subsidise the family focused one.

    You find time for this by getting rid of 50 over cricket entirely.
    Agreed with all of that until the final para. You don't need to find time for it if it's nit an elite comp - you make it a bit B teamy.

    Reasons I prefer the T20 to the Hundred:
    - More overs
    - Same format as T20 the world over - rather than pointless tweaks which add nothing.
    - The fonts and purple/green graphics of the Hundred.
    - It's Lancashire, where my grandfather was a member and to which I therefore feel some affinity - not Manchester, which is made up. And Lancashire has bettet songs and Lanky the Giraffe.
    - The Hundred is like watching BBC3 - it's terrified it's going to lose your attention.
    - The music is better at the T20. Sweet Caroline/Papa's got a brand new pigbag/ Tom Hark. Rather than the 1Xtra shite they play at the Hundred in a desperate attempt to appeal to the youth.

    Reasons I prefer the Hundred:
    - It's in terrestrial telly.

    Most Blast games are free to stream on YouTube.

    The Hundred isn't called the Blundred for no reason.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Uncertain times call for clear and decisive action does it Sunak? On this one point the people agree with you *looks at survation MRP*
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491
    Lots of nerves out there
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Foxy said:

    Not sure this featured earlier:

    How much, if at all, do you want Nigel Farage to be elected to the House of Commons as an MP?

    All Britons
    A great deal/fair amount: 27%
    Not very much/not at all: 58%

    2019 Conservative voters
    A great deal/fair amount: 51%
    Not very much/not at all: 36%

    yougov.co.uk/topics/politic…

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1798025670401966205?t=F9bTmz5xQB5qu5LFS-dYJw&s=19

    Yep: something might very well give there on those second sets of figures.
    Much of the 33% 'a great deal' will be those 2019 Con that have already jumped ship to Reform of course
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Get well soon @TSE
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,058
    Opening Image
    Sunak – Weird grin
    Starmer – Weird posture

    Opening statements
    Sunak – A plan and bold action is needed. No one knows what Labour will do, but you know me. I’ll cut taxes and reduce immigration. Clear plan for a secure future for your family.
    Starmer – Election all about choice, turn the page on chaos and rebuild with Labour. I have a practical plan, and have changed Labour. Will make the country work for your family.

    Rishi stiff, but clear. Starmer workmanlike.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,046
    Nope, can’t do it. The PM just can’t “do human”. My TV screen will get broken if I leave this on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    kle4 said:

    Opening Image
    Sunak – Weird grin
    Starmer – Weird posture

    Opening statements
    Sunak – A plan and bold action is needed. No one knows what Labour will do, but you know me. I’ll cut taxes and reduce immigration. Clear plan for a secure future for your family.
    Starmer – Election all about choice, turn the page on chaos and rebuild with Labour. I have a practical plan, and have changed Labour. Will make the country work for your family.

    Rishi stiff, but clear. Starmer workmanlike.

    Been watching Only Fans, has he?
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    Two dull middle manager types.

    Perhaps the studio should be beige

    How can Sunak claim it’s his plan to bring inflation under control. It’s the MPC doing it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,120
    Watching the Debate.

    Yiddish humour missing. But the debate format looks encouraging.

    "Shumac and Shtarmer shtick it to each other."
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Rishi has mentioned 'a clear plan' a few times now...
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    kle4 said:

    Opening Image
    Sunak – Weird grin
    Starmer – Weird posture

    Opening statements
    Sunak – A plan and bold action is needed. No one knows what Labour will do, but you know me. I’ll cut taxes and reduce immigration. Clear plan for a secure future for your family.
    Starmer – Election all about choice, turn the page on chaos and rebuild with Labour. I have a practical plan, and have changed Labour. Will make the country work for your family.

    Rishi stiff, but clear. Starmer workmanlike.

    £2000 of labour tax rises? where are they getting that from.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,242
    edited June 4

    Dura_Ace said:

    Did anyone have the necessary mental fortitude to sit through the tory leader debates? How shit was Sunak in those?
    .

    He got beaten by Liz Truss.

    I need say no more.
    Ditzy Anglo-Saxon blonde beats serious Asian nerd in electorate dominated by elderly gentlemen? You need say no more.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Rishi has mentioned 'a clear plan' a few times now...

    Has he given thought to what it is?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Huddersfield woman: I work full time and am broke as fuck
    Sunak: robotic list of all the things I've already done to make you this well off
    Starmer: emotive I know how hard this is, you know how much the Tories have shat the economy
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    God these two are awful. (Thought I would get that in before anyone else).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Bloody Liz Truss!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    spudgfsh said:

    kle4 said:

    Opening Image
    Sunak – Weird grin
    Starmer – Weird posture

    Opening statements
    Sunak – A plan and bold action is needed. No one knows what Labour will do, but you know me. I’ll cut taxes and reduce immigration. Clear plan for a secure future for your family.
    Starmer – Election all about choice, turn the page on chaos and rebuild with Labour. I have a practical plan, and have changed Labour. Will make the country work for your family.

    Rishi stiff, but clear. Starmer workmanlike.

    £2000 of labour tax rises? where are they getting that from.
    Their backsides.
  • Well so far Starmer has wiped the floor with him.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    DavidL said:

    God these two are awful. (Thought I would get that in before anyone else).

    Too late.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,362
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Opening Image
    Sunak – Weird grin
    Starmer – Weird posture

    Opening statements
    Sunak – A plan and bold action is needed. No one knows what Labour will do, but you know me. I’ll cut taxes and reduce immigration. Clear plan for a secure future for your family.
    Starmer – Election all about choice, turn the page on chaos and rebuild with Labour. I have a practical plan, and have changed Labour. Will make the country work for your family.

    Rishi stiff, but clear. Starmer workmanlike.

    Been watching Only Fans, has he?
    I bet milkshake girl is chuffed to bits given the free advertising her Onlyfans page is getting.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    Dura_Ace said:

    Did anyone have the necessary mental fortitude to sit through the tory leader debates? How shit was Sunak in those?

    I don't really expect the Gettysburg Address from SKS either. Whenever he speaks, no matter the subject, he sounds like a man reading the instructions for a dishwasher aloud at gunpoint.

    😄 Any time I hear Starmer from now on, I will be wondering whether it is Bosch, Hotpoint or Indesit!
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 737

    With pollsters you must make up your own minds.

    I'm sure we all have some that we take more seriously than others. I'm looking at past electoral records and relative stability (outside of events like Johnson taking over from May or Johnson's Government imploding or the Kamikwaze Budget).

    MRPs are a dark art all of their own. YouGov may be better at them than they are at standard polling. Survation are probably the reverse of that.

    I also don’t envy pollsters this time around, because politics has changed so dramatically since 2019, and it must be very hard to build methodology to deal with it.

    One question that interests me is whether we’re seeing the return of the commonly overstated Labour vote, which was often a thing during the Blair/Brown years.
    I suspect so - though not by all pollsters (let alone in all polls). I am currently minded to accept the smallest polled gap - currenlty 14. That is almost certainy where we are or generous to the Cons. Which is gopod enough for me.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,491

    Rishi has mentioned 'a clear plan' a few times now...

    I think he said clear pan
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,616
    kle4 said:

    Opening Image
    Sunak – Weird grin
    Starmer – Weird posture

    Opening statements
    Sunak – A plan and bold action is needed. No one knows what Labour will do, but you know me. I’ll cut taxes and reduce immigration. Clear plan for a secure future for your family.
    Starmer – Election all about choice, turn the page on chaos and rebuild with Labour. I have a practical plan, and have changed Labour. Will make the country work for your family.

    Rishi stiff, but clear. Starmer workmanlike.

    Starmer a bit shouting, Sunak a bit
    spudgfsh said:

    kle4 said:

    Opening Image
    Sunak – Weird grin
    Starmer – Weird posture

    Opening statements
    Sunak – A plan and bold action is needed. No one knows what Labour will do, but you know me. I’ll cut taxes and reduce immigration. Clear plan for a secure future for your family.
    Starmer – Election all about choice, turn the page on chaos and rebuild with Labour. I have a practical plan, and have changed Labour. Will make the country work for your family.

    Rishi stiff, but clear. Starmer workmanlike.

    £2000 of labour tax rises? where are they getting that from.
    Labour's Schrodingers policy that is both a blank sheet and includes tax rises.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,058
    edited June 4
    Question – cost of living –
    Worked since 15. Very difficult to make ends meat. Food bill doubled, in arrears on bills, savings gone. What can you do?

    Sunak – I know how much strain has put on your family finances and for everyone. Economy growing again thanks to my plan. Know you only just starting to see benefits. Choice is my clear plan and bold action or high taxes with Labour.

    Starmer – must be difficult for you and millions in similar position. Truss crashed economy and made things worse, Government lost control and you pay price. Truss again. We have to stop chaos and rebuild.

    Clear plan and bold action is already Rishi’s catchphrase. Stop chaos and rebuild is Keirs.

    Starmer – if things are working why call election now? It’s not working
    Sunak - he told me to call election and now complaints, he has no plan. My plan is working. He will put up taxes.

    Sunak seemed more genuine on this answer than his opening. Starmer making an effort to address the questioner, Sunak already interrupting him, Keir retorting about government raising taxes.

  • I think Rishi's real problem is that he sounds really insincere.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,592
    Sunak seems to be incapable of changing his speech register between delivering a statement and addressing an individual. It makes him sound incredibly inauthentic.
  • Sunak seems to be incapable of changing his speech register between delivering a statement and addressing an individual. It makes him sound incredibly inauthentic.

    It sounds like he's telling you off.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,046
    Why isn’t Starmer more on the front foot? Address the lies about taxes you moron.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    This is utter shyte isn't it?!!
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    Where’s the whites gone in Sunak’s eyes?

    Big bags under his eyes caked in makeup, too - clearly lacking sleep. Starmer looks chirpier, but the campaign's going to have been tough on both of them.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Why is Starmer not refuting the tax rise point. Foolish.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,321
    edited June 4

    Rishi has mentioned 'a clear plan' a few times now...

    I think he said clear pan
    deleted
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,242

    This is utter shyte isn't it?!!

    Absolutely. And I'm not even watching.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Maybe my Mum was right :lol:
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Starmer really needs to refute that tax line, but Starmer far more PM like.
This discussion has been closed.