The Lib Dems could win a seat from 4th – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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For balance, I have another acquaintance who was professionally involved with the Bamber case. Went in with doubts, came out thinking: definitely guilty3
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I'm not sure that's right Horse. They're pretty highly sought after. Personally, I'd be delighted if my daughters went down the apprenticeship route rather than the degree route.BatteryCorrectHorse said:You can see how much apprenticeships are looked down upon based on how the Tories have approached them. They are at best badly run and managed, at worst actively set people up badly for work.
If we want to get people out of university and into the job market, apprenticeships need to be seen as tier 1 option not a "you're too stupid to get a degree" option, which they still are.
Also, the apprentices where I work are clearly among the brightest of their generation.1 -
He is a member of the House of Lords so going to the Commons is a bit of fairly obvious careerism.ToryJim said:
That probably just means he failed the pre-selection process to get approval if he even undertook it. No party is going to let someone waltz in off the street or out of the Civil Service into a Parliamentary candidacy no matter how many tub thumping articles in semi friendly newspapers one pens.Scott_xP said:@christopherhope
** Exclusive **
Boris Johnson ally David Frost has been banned from standing as Tory candidate in the general election, I understand.
Lord Frost was told yesterday that he cannot apply for any of the 93 vacant seats where the party is yet to nominate a candidate for the July 4 general election, according to his friends.
Frost is a low tax Tory who was one of the architects of former Prime Minister Boris Johnson's Brexit deal.
He was described as "the great Frost" by Johnson for his work on the deal.0 -
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Data cabling is the same as welding. It’s one of those skills that God gave someone, that in theory I could do but I’d charge double their rate and achieve half of their output.Malmesbury said:
Welding is one of those trades that sounds simple to uninitiated. Then you learn what its about. I watched a chap welding titanium. Then I had a go. There is a reason they pay him what they do....LostPassword said:
The cost of living is too high.another_richard said:
So why are so many graduates complaining about being poor ?LostPassword said:
Not if Britain wants to be a competitive high-income economy.Andy_JS said:Tuition fees could be abolished if the percentage of people going to university was brought back to where it used to be until the 1990s. But I'm guessing that isn't an option.
Perhaps because going to university is a very good for some but the opposite for others.
And maybe concentrating such educational resources and cost on the 18-22 years reduces the resources available for further education and training at 25, 35, 45 or even 55 ?
Tertiary education in Britain is too focused on academic subjects, as opposed to a broader range of skills. I've mentioned before my Irish brother-in-law who completed a third-level course related to his trade as a welder, and now works for the local distillery, earning enough to have built his own home.
But these courses need to be at least as well funded as academic degree courses and to have parity of esteem. In Britain they tend to be seen as a second-class option, and aren't seen as going to proper university.
More than 60% of young Irish people have a third-level education. Britain needs to do the same, to a high standard, if it's going to compete.
My solution simple - make the tertiary system degrees for all. Lets have Professors of Welding at Oxford.
Apart from the status issue, it will begin to encourage mixing of skills in modular degrees. Greats with a side order of plumbing?
Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.0 -
My guess is Letby is probably guilty but not necessarily of all of them. For this casual observer of the criminal justice system, there does seem to be a worrying tendency by prosecutions to handwave about patterns so that if the accused did A, B and C, for which there is clear evidence, they probably also did X, Y and Z where there's almost no evidence but they kind of look the same if you squint a bit so just find them guilty and don't worry your pretty little heads about it.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
So I'd like to have seen an appeal but also to read the New Yorker article when it can be published here.2 -
The Telegraph have just Brexit-tackled Sunak:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/23/manchester-bombing-victim-mother-misled-meeting-rishi-sunak/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1716494755-10 -
Um no.BatteryCorrectHorse said:You can see how much apprenticeships are looked down upon based on how the Tories have approached them. They are at best badly run and managed, at worst actively set people up badly for work.
If we want to get people out of university and into the job market, apprenticeships need to be seen as tier 1 option not a "you're too stupid to get a degree" option, which they still are.
I know a fair bit about Degree Apprenticeships which is why 3 out of the 6 21-24 year olds on our street ended up in them.
Some (accountancy, engineering) are however harder to get on to than entry to Oxford - because it’s simply a better option. Take the VOA chartered surveying apprenticeship, 5 years during which you get your chartership and that usually takes 2 years post degree - so you get to the exact same career point at the same time with 3 years more experience, no debt and for all the apprentices twin A knows their own homes
Yes a lot of companies don’t like them but those companies have never liked training their workers, they just poach the finished article from elsewhere2 -
Churchill famously laid bricks, and joined a bricklayers union IIRCMalmesbury said:Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.
0 -
I have various films and TV series on Blu-Ray and DVD. Even the Blu-Ray ones rarely come out of their boxes - often the streaming quality is even higher...williamglenn said:
Who would download music these days? People just stream.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.1 -
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.1 -
Modern civilisation requires a large number of skills that are both intellectual and physical at the same time. Large amounts of book learning combined with getting your hands dirty.Sandpit said:.
Data cabling is the same as welding. It’s one of those skills that God gave someone, that in theory I could do but I’d charge double their rate and achieve half of their output.Malmesbury said:
Welding is one of those trades that sounds simple to uninitiated. Then you learn what its about. I watched a chap welding titanium. Then I had a go. There is a reason they pay him what they do....LostPassword said:
The cost of living is too high.another_richard said:
So why are so many graduates complaining about being poor ?LostPassword said:
Not if Britain wants to be a competitive high-income economy.Andy_JS said:Tuition fees could be abolished if the percentage of people going to university was brought back to where it used to be until the 1990s. But I'm guessing that isn't an option.
Perhaps because going to university is a very good for some but the opposite for others.
And maybe concentrating such educational resources and cost on the 18-22 years reduces the resources available for further education and training at 25, 35, 45 or even 55 ?
Tertiary education in Britain is too focused on academic subjects, as opposed to a broader range of skills. I've mentioned before my Irish brother-in-law who completed a third-level course related to his trade as a welder, and now works for the local distillery, earning enough to have built his own home.
But these courses need to be at least as well funded as academic degree courses and to have parity of esteem. In Britain they tend to be seen as a second-class option, and aren't seen as going to proper university.
More than 60% of young Irish people have a third-level education. Britain needs to do the same, to a high standard, if it's going to compete.
My solution simple - make the tertiary system degrees for all. Lets have Professors of Welding at Oxford.
Apart from the status issue, it will begin to encourage mixing of skills in modular degrees. Greats with a side order of plumbing?
Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.
Societal prejudice has barely caught up. Let alone the education system.3 -
I already noted this decision.
The Supreme Court's second decision is Alexander v. SC NAACP. By a 6–3 vote, the majority REVERSES a district court decision that had struck down a South Carolina congressional district as a racial gerrymander. Alito writes; all three liberals dissent.
https://x.com/mjs_DC/status/1793645098657570864
I missed this bit where Thomas casts further shade on Brown v Board of Education.
Justice Thomas' concurrence also takes aim at Brown v. Board of Education, faulting the Supreme Court for taking "a boundless view of equitable remedies" through "extravagant uses of judicial power" to end racial segregation in the 1950s and 60s.
https://x.com/mjs_DC/status/1793650153657897402
Towards the end of the 19th C, the Supreme Court, in an act of undeniable judicial activism, gutted the 14th Amendment in the Slaughterhouse Cases decision.
During the following century, the Supreme Court gradually restored some of the scope of the 14th Amendment with a series of decisions which relied on its Due Process and Equal Protection clauses.
The current extremists on the Court, like Thomas and Alito, have no problem with the Slaughterhouse decision, but remain keen to overturn the later settled precedents.
They've killed Roe v. Wade already.
Brown v. Board of Education, Loving v. Virginia, Obergefell v. Hodges, and Griswold v. Connecticut* are all potentially now in the frame.
Bush v. Gore, of course, whose 14th Amendment basis was shakier than any of the above, won't be challenged.
*See Trump's recent musings on contraception.0 -
I'll take this endorsement (not that it comes from an unbiased source).
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I download.williamglenn said:
Who would download music these days? People just stream.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.
Reason being, I'm 49. I spent my 20s building up quite a large music collection. I own probably 80% of the music I want to listen to. It doesn't make economic sense for me to pay for a spotify subscription - I spend less a month on new music than I would on a subscription for all music. Plus, I pay £9 a month for a mobile phone contract with a fairly minimal data allowance; my music is listened to on an ipod.
If I was in my teens or 20s the calculus would probably be very different.2 -
Spotify for £100 a year, just over 1 days minimum wage pay, gives me access to what feels like almost every song ever produced, as well as finding them for me and working out new music I'd like.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.
When vinyl was in its hey day for the same type of labour you'd get a couple of albums.
Its hardly a contest.0 -
He was apparently almost as crap as a brickie as he was as an artist.Scott_xP said:
Churchill famously laid bricks, and joined a bricklayers union IIRCMalmesbury said:Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.
If he'd been trained....1 -
This isn't difficult to deal with.Eabhal said:The Telegraph have just Brexit-tackled Sunak:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/23/manchester-bombing-victim-mother-misled-meeting-rishi-sunak/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1716494755-1
'As I promised Figen, if I remain PM after the election then the law will be introduced before the recess on July 23. The labour party, I understand, also support this law and I invite them to match this committment'
But he's far too shit to do the easy response2 -
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."
0 -
Yep. It’s just the iTunes chart. D:Ream’s Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2
http://www.itunescharts.net/uk/
It’s so strange how in election campaigns something happens that steals the show or takes the agenda, and sometimes even becomes the meme for the whole campaign.
One thinks of Gordon Brown’s mic rant about Gillian Duffy
or Theresa May’s disastrous welfare launch when we all discovered under questionning that she’s really a robot. Not to mention the car crash conference speech with the banner letters falling down.
I suspect people will refer back to ‘THAT launch’ on Wednesday for a long time to come.1 -
The wall he built is still standingMalmesbury said:
He was apparently almost as crap as a brickie as he was as an artist.Scott_xP said:
Churchill famously laid bricks, and joined a bricklayers union IIRCMalmesbury said:Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.
If he'd been trained....
0 -
Glyn Razell is another weird one, no body, no witnesses, police failed to find blood in the car he used on the day when they had it is forensics for 3 days, yet a week later when they again took the car in they found the alleged victims blood which was perfectly visible to the naked eye in the boot and footwell. And he managed to drive past 23 CCTV cameras to the alleged abduction site without being picked up on any of them and then drove past them again to dump the body and drive home, but the CCTV cameras did not up his vehicle again.Taz said:
What about Jeremy Bamber ? That seems an odd one too.NerysHughes said:
There are numerous people in prison for murder where everyone knows they havent done it, Michael Stone for example.Heathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2023/nov/22/russell-murders-is-michael-stone-in-prison-for-brutal-crime-he-didnt-commit
No evidence at all other than an alleged confession to a man now serving life for murder. Michael Stone has served 25 years in prison
He has been in prison for 22 years, if he admitted guilt and provided the location of the body he would be released. He still protests his innocence so claims he does not know where the body is, because of this he will never be released.
https://insidetime.org/newsround/the-case-of-glyn-razzell/
Another one is Roger Kearney, no evidence. no witnesses, he was having an affair with the victim and that was enough to convict him. He cant appeal his case because he was convicted on no evidence so cannot challange the evidence as there isn't any. (And some evidence that could have led to the actual killer was destoyed by Hampshire Police)
https://www.insidejustice.co.uk/about-us/our-cases.php0 -
It would not be the first miscarriage of justice involving a confession.Ratters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.0 -
Spotify is acenoneoftheabove said:
Spotify for £100 a year, just over 1 days minimum wage pay, gives me access to what feels like almost every song ever produced, as well as finding them for me and working out new music I'd like.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.
When vinyl was in its hey day for the same type of labour you'd get a couple of albums.
Its hardly a contest.0 -
I think I preferred the actual car crash during one of Gordo's launchesHeathener said:One thinks of Gordon Brown’s mic rant about Gillian Duffy
or Theresa May’s disastrous welfare launch when we all discovered under questionning that she’s really a robot. Not to mention the car crash conference speech with the banner letters falling down.1 -
DecrepiterJohnL said:
It would not be the first miscarriage of justice involving a confession.Ratters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.
An interesting parallel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk_case
As discussed here
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data (previously mentioned in this thread)
1 -
It's a cultural and a funding issue.Malmesbury said:
Welding is one of those trades that sounds simple to uninitiated. Then you learn what its about. I watched a chap welding titanium. Then I had a go. There is a reason they pay him what they do....LostPassword said:
The cost of living is too high.another_richard said:
So why are so many graduates complaining about being poor ?LostPassword said:
Not if Britain wants to be a competitive high-income economy.Andy_JS said:Tuition fees could be abolished if the percentage of people going to university was brought back to where it used to be until the 1990s. But I'm guessing that isn't an option.
Perhaps because going to university is a very good for some but the opposite for others.
And maybe concentrating such educational resources and cost on the 18-22 years reduces the resources available for further education and training at 25, 35, 45 or even 55 ?
Tertiary education in Britain is too focused on academic subjects, as opposed to a broader range of skills. I've mentioned before my Irish brother-in-law who completed a third-level course related to his trade as a welder, and now works for the local distillery, earning enough to have built his own home.
But these courses need to be at least as well funded as academic degree courses and to have parity of esteem. In Britain they tend to be seen as a second-class option, and aren't seen as going to proper university.
More than 60% of young Irish people have a third-level education. Britain needs to do the same, to a high standard, if it's going to compete.
My solution simple - make the tertiary system degrees for all. Lets have Professors of Welding at Oxford.
Apart from the status issue, it will begin to encourage mixing of skills in modular degrees. Greats with a side order of plumbing?
Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.
Technical skills are more highly prized in some manufacturing economies than they are in the UK (and not looked down on as they tend to be here) - but we've also starved the Technical Colleges of serious funding for a very long time.
I'm not sure how you would best manage a rebalancing of further education towards technical skills, but it should be far more actively debated - as opposed to just "let's cut university funding", or worse, just doing so by fiscal drag, which is what this government has done.0 -
It isn't every song ever written though, is it? I've got a fair bit in my ipod which isn't on Spotify - including my most played song of the last ten years. ('Big', by New Fast Automatic Daffodils, if you must know. The original single version - not either of the album versions, which are very different beasts.)noneoftheabove said:
Spotify for £100 a year, just over 1 days minimum wage pay, gives me access to what feels like almost every song ever produced, as well as finding them for me and working out new music I'd like.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.
When vinyl was in its hey day for the same type of labour you'd get a couple of albums.
Its hardly a contest.1 -
"Going to the 'tech" was what you did if you were too thick for A-Levels.Nigelb said:
It's a cultural and a funding issue.Malmesbury said:
Welding is one of those trades that sounds simple to uninitiated. Then you learn what its about. I watched a chap welding titanium. Then I had a go. There is a reason they pay him what they do....LostPassword said:
The cost of living is too high.another_richard said:
So why are so many graduates complaining about being poor ?LostPassword said:
Not if Britain wants to be a competitive high-income economy.Andy_JS said:Tuition fees could be abolished if the percentage of people going to university was brought back to where it used to be until the 1990s. But I'm guessing that isn't an option.
Perhaps because going to university is a very good for some but the opposite for others.
And maybe concentrating such educational resources and cost on the 18-22 years reduces the resources available for further education and training at 25, 35, 45 or even 55 ?
Tertiary education in Britain is too focused on academic subjects, as opposed to a broader range of skills. I've mentioned before my Irish brother-in-law who completed a third-level course related to his trade as a welder, and now works for the local distillery, earning enough to have built his own home.
But these courses need to be at least as well funded as academic degree courses and to have parity of esteem. In Britain they tend to be seen as a second-class option, and aren't seen as going to proper university.
More than 60% of young Irish people have a third-level education. Britain needs to do the same, to a high standard, if it's going to compete.
My solution simple - make the tertiary system degrees for all. Lets have Professors of Welding at Oxford.
Apart from the status issue, it will begin to encourage mixing of skills in modular degrees. Greats with a side order of plumbing?
Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.
Technical skills are more highly prized in some manufacturing economies than they are in the UK (and not looked down on as they tend to be here) - but we've also starved the Technical Colleges of serious funding for a very long time.
I'm not sure how you would best manage a rebalancing of further education towards technical skills, but it should be far more actively debated - as opposed to just "let's cut university funding", or worse, just doing so by fiscal drag, which is what this government has done.0 -
Point 1 was never tested because it was conceded, apparently incorrectlyRatters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.
The notes are on a par with things I have falsely accused myself of in bouts of severe depression
What I find most troubling is the anonymity granted to the chief witness against her (who was also her ex lover, a potential suspect, and by the look of it an amateur detective). I can't begin to think of any interest of justice which is being served, which overrides the duty of transparency which I would have thought arose if you were trying to get someone locked up in a small cell for 50 years0 -
I think the case for the defence is that there were deaths on the ward when she wasn't there, so who did those?Ratters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.1 -
The starting point for this discussion is the suggestion of funding the abolition of tuition fees by cutting the numbers of students who receive a third-level education.another_richard said:
I agree.LostPassword said:
The cost of living is too high.another_richard said:
So why are so many graduates complaining about being poor ?LostPassword said:
Not if Britain wants to be a competitive high-income economy.Andy_JS said:Tuition fees could be abolished if the percentage of people going to university was brought back to where it used to be until the 1990s. But I'm guessing that isn't an option.
Perhaps because going to university is a very good for some but the opposite for others.
And maybe concentrating such educational resources and cost on the 18-22 years reduces the resources available for further education and training at 25, 35, 45 or even 55 ?
Tertiary education in Britain is too focused on academic subjects, as opposed to a broader range of skills. I've mentioned before my Irish brother-in-law who completed a third-level course related to his trade as a welder, and now works for the local distillery, earning enough to have built his own home.
But these courses need to be at least as well funded as academic degree courses and to have parity of esteem. In Britain they tend to be seen as a second-class option, and aren't seen as going to proper university.
More than 60% of young Irish people have a third-level education. Britain needs to do the same, to a high standard, if it's going to compete.
But those aren't purely academic courses taken between 18 and 21.
Obviously there's a whole argument about what courses to fund and encourage students to take, but this is an area that requires ambition and investment if Britain is going to have the skills to succeed. Not an attitude that says most people don't require a post-18 education.0 -
More tears at the PO inquiry.0
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I am quite staggered her notes were allowed to be admitted at all as firm evidence? I think she probably did do it but to have those as a sign of confession seems quite batty to me, hasn't it been quite conclusively proven that even people that didn't do something have often ended up thinking that they did?0
-
Universities are often of the mind that "These are our sacred principle and ideals. If you don't like them, we have others we can sell you."Nigelb said:
It's a cultural and a funding issue.Malmesbury said:
Welding is one of those trades that sounds simple to uninitiated. Then you learn what its about. I watched a chap welding titanium. Then I had a go. There is a reason they pay him what they do....LostPassword said:
The cost of living is too high.another_richard said:
So why are so many graduates complaining about being poor ?LostPassword said:
Not if Britain wants to be a competitive high-income economy.Andy_JS said:Tuition fees could be abolished if the percentage of people going to university was brought back to where it used to be until the 1990s. But I'm guessing that isn't an option.
Perhaps because going to university is a very good for some but the opposite for others.
And maybe concentrating such educational resources and cost on the 18-22 years reduces the resources available for further education and training at 25, 35, 45 or even 55 ?
Tertiary education in Britain is too focused on academic subjects, as opposed to a broader range of skills. I've mentioned before my Irish brother-in-law who completed a third-level course related to his trade as a welder, and now works for the local distillery, earning enough to have built his own home.
But these courses need to be at least as well funded as academic degree courses and to have parity of esteem. In Britain they tend to be seen as a second-class option, and aren't seen as going to proper university.
More than 60% of young Irish people have a third-level education. Britain needs to do the same, to a high standard, if it's going to compete.
My solution simple - make the tertiary system degrees for all. Lets have Professors of Welding at Oxford.
Apart from the status issue, it will begin to encourage mixing of skills in modular degrees. Greats with a side order of plumbing?
Imagine architects who can lay bricks. Imagine civil servants who can operate a CNC mill. Imagine a CNC operator who can quote Milton.
Technical skills are more highly prized in some manufacturing economies than they are in the UK (and not looked down on as they tend to be here) - but we've also starved the Technical Colleges of serious funding for a very long time.
I'm not sure how you would best manage a rebalancing of further education towards technical skills, but it should be far more actively debated - as opposed to just "let's cut university funding", or worse, just doing so by fiscal drag, which is what this government has done.
Oxford used to sniff at part time degrees. Until they found out about the torrent of money from Kellogg College. Jokes about Rice Crispies Degrees turned into demands for some of the cash...
This is the bunch who turned their noses up at giving Thatcher an honorary degree, but just *love* Landmine College.
Make technical skills the place where money is at, and they'll be on it like tramps on chips.1 -
I would have thought those notes were very admissible.BatteryCorrectHorse said:I am quite staggered her notes were allowed to be admitted at all as firm evidence? I think she probably did do it but to have those as a sign of confession seems quite batty to me, hasn't it been quite conclusively proven that even people that didn't do something have often ended up thinking that they did?
2 -
The truth is we probably admit confession evidence of all sorts a fair amount. Humans find them so compelling that the idea of excluding them is too objectionable, but I agree it isn't necessary useful for reaching justice.BatteryCorrectHorse said:I am quite staggered her notes were allowed to be admitted at all as firm evidence? I think she probably did do it but to have those as a sign of confession seems quite batty to me, hasn't it been quite conclusively proven that even people that didn't do something have often ended up thinking that they did?
0 -
I would not be surprised if some deep-Red State legislature passed anti-miscegenation legislation.Nigelb said:I already noted this decision.
The Supreme Court's second decision is Alexander v. SC NAACP. By a 6–3 vote, the majority REVERSES a district court decision that had struck down a South Carolina congressional district as a racial gerrymander. Alito writes; all three liberals dissent.
https://x.com/mjs_DC/status/1793645098657570864
I missed this bit where Thomas casts further shade on Brown v Board of Education.
Justice Thomas' concurrence also takes aim at Brown v. Board of Education, faulting the Supreme Court for taking "a boundless view of equitable remedies" through "extravagant uses of judicial power" to end racial segregation in the 1950s and 60s.
https://x.com/mjs_DC/status/1793650153657897402
Towards the end of the 19th C, the Supreme Court, in an act of undeniable judicial activism, gutted the 14th Amendment in the Slaughterhouse Cases decision.
During the following century, the Supreme Court gradually restored some of the scope of the 14th Amendment with a series of decisions which relied on its Due Process and Equal Protection clauses.
The current extremists on the Court, like Thomas and Alito, have no problem with the Slaughterhouse decision, but remain keen to overturn the later settled precedents.
They've killed Roe v. Wade already.
Brown v. Board of Education, Loving v. Virginia, Obergefell v. Hodges, and Griswold v. Connecticut* are all potentially now in the frame.
Bush v. Gore, of course, whose 14th Amendment basis was shakier than any of the above, won't be challenged.
*See Trump's recent musings on contraception.1 -
In effect, they simply considered only cases that occurred when Letby was on duty, and then presented as significant the fact that Letby was on duty in all those cases.geoffw said:
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."2 -
Agree with all this.Cookie said:
I'm not sure that's right Horse. They're pretty highly sought after. Personally, I'd be delighted if my daughters went down the apprenticeship route rather than the degree route.BatteryCorrectHorse said:You can see how much apprenticeships are looked down upon based on how the Tories have approached them. They are at best badly run and managed, at worst actively set people up badly for work.
If we want to get people out of university and into the job market, apprenticeships need to be seen as tier 1 option not a "you're too stupid to get a degree" option, which they still are.
Also, the apprentices where I work are clearly among the brightest of their generation.0 -
If you travel a lot like me, you often go to wild places with no wifi or cell signal, then you learn the distinct advantage of downloading over streaming3
-
I think it's fair to ask whether the notes were truly more probative than prejudicial, but I don't think many courts would have excluded them.Sean_F said:
I would have thought those notes were very admissible.BatteryCorrectHorse said:I am quite staggered her notes were allowed to be admitted at all as firm evidence? I think she probably did do it but to have those as a sign of confession seems quite batty to me, hasn't it been quite conclusively proven that even people that didn't do something have often ended up thinking that they did?
0 -
Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
1 -
"Feels like almost" rather than "has every".Cookie said:
It isn't every song ever written though, is it? I've got a fair bit in my ipod which isn't on Spotify - including my most played song of the last ten years. ('Big', by New Fast Automatic Daffodils, if you must know. The original single version - not either of the album versions, which are very different beasts.)noneoftheabove said:
Spotify for £100 a year, just over 1 days minimum wage pay, gives me access to what feels like almost every song ever produced, as well as finding them for me and working out new music I'd like.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.
When vinyl was in its hey day for the same type of labour you'd get a couple of albums.
Its hardly a contest.1 -
That's not my experience at all - but I am glad at least in some circles things are improving and the people doing them are being recognised.Ghedebrav said:
Agree with all this.Cookie said:
I'm not sure that's right Horse. They're pretty highly sought after. Personally, I'd be delighted if my daughters went down the apprenticeship route rather than the degree route.BatteryCorrectHorse said:You can see how much apprenticeships are looked down upon based on how the Tories have approached them. They are at best badly run and managed, at worst actively set people up badly for work.
If we want to get people out of university and into the job market, apprenticeships need to be seen as tier 1 option not a "you're too stupid to get a degree" option, which they still are.
Also, the apprentices where I work are clearly among the brightest of their generation.0 -
Same. I’m often on trains or planes, and sometimes in remote locations and have a stack of downloads for that very reason.Leon said:If you travel a lot like me, you often go to wild places with no wifi or cell signal, then you learn the distinct advantage of downloading over streaming
0 -
Can somebody explain why she isn't allowed to appeal, isn't appealing quite a fundamental part of the system?Chris said:
In effect, they simply considered only cases that occurred when Letby was on duty, and then presented as significant the fact that Letby was on duty in all those cases.geoffw said:
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."
If I was going to appeal, this is the first thing I would look at.0 -
The right of appeal isn't automatic, you don't just get a second go at any trial you lose. You need to show something was wrong with the first trial, that it was conducted in the wrong way or some evidence has since been proven wrong. She and her lawyers haven't convinced a judge of that.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
Can somebody explain why she isn't allowed to appeal, isn't appealing quite a fundamental part of the system?Chris said:
In effect, they simply considered only cases that occurred when Letby was on duty, and then presented as significant the fact that Letby was on duty in all those cases.geoffw said:
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."
If I was going to appeal, this is the first thing I would look at.4 -
When I open Spotify, I often think about teenage me - using my meagre bits of money from weekend work, scrimping around to buy a CD album every month.Taz said:
Spotify is acenoneoftheabove said:
Spotify for £100 a year, just over 1 days minimum wage pay, gives me access to what feels like almost every song ever produced, as well as finding them for me and working out new music I'd like.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.
When vinyl was in its hey day for the same type of labour you'd get a couple of albums.
Its hardly a contest.
The idea that I could, for the same price, get access to a reasonably high percentage of all recorded music would have been mind-melting. It’s one of the few things I would not cut. I could drop so much else, all video streaming, but not Spotify.0 -
This doesn't prove she did it, but the Letby case has something in common with the Yorkshire Ripper. Other lorry drivers used to call Sutcliffe "The Ripper" and Letby's fellow workers also remarked jokingly on the correlation between Letby's presence and deaths of the babies.1
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Roy Meadow comes to mind - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_MeadowBatteryCorrectHorse said:
I think the case for the defence is that there were deaths on the ward when she wasn't there, so who did those?Ratters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.1 -
@hoffman_noa
Secretaries of state have made 2 promises literally to my face.
1. Ground rent will be capped on leasehold properties
2. Section 21 will be abolished for renters
Confirmed - today both of those long repeated promises have been ABANDONED.
Richi has managed to make Day 2 of his campaign all about how untrustworthy he is. Meanwhile He has just been asked live on TV if BoZo will be stumping for him1 -
Relatedly, PC Wayne Cousons was reportedly nicknamed 'The Rapist' by colleagues. Ugh.tlg86 said:This doesn't prove she did it, but the Letby case has something in common with the Yorkshire Ripper. Other lorry drivers used to call Sutcliffe "The Ripper" and Letby's fellow workers also remarked jokingly on the correlation between Letby's presence and deaths of the babies.
1 -
Or certain trains run by GWR, SWR, or London Northwestern. Sometimes it depends on which end of the train you sit.Leon said:If you travel a lot like me, you often go to wild places with no wifi or cell signal, then you learn the distinct advantage of downloading over streaming
[Edit: many trains also throttle the signal or just forbid streaming sites, forcing a download prior. I mostly read or do BBC Sounds or doomscroll PB, so this is not a problem, but for more sophisticated users I imagine it would be awks]1 -
Her lawyers presented evidence for an appeal to a panel of three judges. The judges decided that the evidence presented was insufficient to kick off a full appeal process.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
Can somebody explain why she isn't allowed to appeal, isn't appealing quite a fundamental part of the system?Chris said:
In effect, they simply considered only cases that occurred when Letby was on duty, and then presented as significant the fact that Letby was on duty in all those cases.geoffw said:
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."
If I was going to appeal, this is the first thing I would look at.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/24/lucy-letby-loses-attempt-to-appeal-against-baby-convictions0 -
You have to look at the whole picture, including what the defence called and said about any particular bit of evidence, and how the defence went about rebutting it.Chris said:
In effect, they simply considered only cases that occurred when Letby was on duty, and then presented as significant the fact that Letby was on duty in all those cases.geoffw said:
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."0 -
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email0 -
Meanwhile, in America...
Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has unexpectedly emerged as a top contender to become Donald J. Trump’s running mate, a signal that the former president is heavily weighing experience and the ability to run a disciplined campaign over other factors.
NY Times
I just got on at 55 on BF.
DYOR.
0 -
Thanks for your thorough explanation, that makes sense.Quincel said:
The right of appeal isn't automatic, you don't just get a second go at any trial you lose. You need to show something was wrong with the first trial, that it was conducted in the wrong way or some evidence has since been proven wrong. She and her lawyers haven't convinced a judge of that.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
Can somebody explain why she isn't allowed to appeal, isn't appealing quite a fundamental part of the system?Chris said:
In effect, they simply considered only cases that occurred when Letby was on duty, and then presented as significant the fact that Letby was on duty in all those cases.geoffw said:
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."
If I was going to appeal, this is the first thing I would look at.2 -
You'd think that would be a Red Flag.Quincel said:
Relatedly, PC Wayne Cousons was reportedly nicknamed 'The Rapist' by colleagues. Ugh.tlg86 said:This doesn't prove she did it, but the Letby case has something in common with the Yorkshire Ripper. Other lorry drivers used to call Sutcliffe "The Ripper" and Letby's fellow workers also remarked jokingly on the correlation between Letby's presence and deaths of the babies.
0 -
There are plenty of deaths in NICUs. Unless other deaths were also identified as intentional, it's not much of a point.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
I think the case for the defence is that there were deaths on the ward when she wasn't there, so who did those?Ratters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.
(I haven't followed the Letby case particularly closely and so don't have a fully formed opinion either way - what I have read does not trouble me, but that could be due to her being guilty or bias in the accounts I have read etc.)0 -
Given that the total Russia birth rate is 1.2 million per year, that is Lost Generation numbers.Sean_F said:
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email0 -
Well.
Paddy Power has abandoned a Euro 2024 advertising campaign with Boris Johnson after an apparent backlash from its staff against the former Prime Minister.
The lead campaigner for Brexit in 2016 was reportedly due to pull on an England No 10 jersey and declare, “I told you I would get us back in Europe” in the stunt.
However, with Johnson being hired and the script signed off, Dublin-based Paddy Power faced a revolt from its staff in Britain, the New York Times reports. Johnson’s spokesman and the betting firm have been contacted by Telegraph Sport.
Two people familiar with the campaign had told the NYT that a script for the advert had been provided to Johnson. However, the prospect of aligning Johnson with the firm prompted UK staff members to reportedly warn “they were uncomfortable promoting a figure as divisive as Mr Johnson, and particularly with language that poked fun at Brexit”.
“We have been speaking to Boris Johnson’s team about a number of opportunities, one of which was an idea for a cameo role in a TV advert,” Paddy Power’s parent company, the US-headquartered Flutter Entertainment, said.
The company confirmed that Johnson’s role in its Euro 2024 campaign will not be on air although the parent company said “we remain hopeful of working together in the near future”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/05/24/boris-johnson-paddy-power-euro-2024-advert-axed-revolt/1 -
Appeals begin with asking for leave to appeal, which the trial judge can give, or the Court of Appeal can give, usually a single judge at first, which can then be taken to three judges.Malmesbury said:
Her lawyers presented evidence for an appeal to a panel of three judges. The judges decided that the evidence presented was insufficient to kick off a full appeal process.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
Can somebody explain why she isn't allowed to appeal, isn't appealing quite a fundamental part of the system?Chris said:
In effect, they simply considered only cases that occurred when Letby was on duty, and then presented as significant the fact that Letby was on duty in all those cases.geoffw said:
Disturbing.Andy_JS said:Worth reading wrt Letby.
https://www.scienceontrial.com/post/shifting-the-data
"A simple review of the shift data used in the conviction of Lucy Letby reveals that if you torture data, it will confess to anything."
If I was going to appeal, this is the first thing I would look at.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/may/24/lucy-letby-loses-attempt-to-appeal-against-baby-convictions
An appeal has to present grounds of appeal; ie a set of argued reasons why, in law, an appeal is possible. If that does not exist, then the procedure stops then.
There has to be a rational filter for appeals otherwise every case would be clogging up the system by having full hearings where there no arguable grounds.1 -
I believe, the suggestion was made that the rate of death on the ward was still higher than "average" (naturally) even excluding the Letby deaths, so the implication was something else was at play and they were trying to use that as a way to say Letby didn't do it.Selebian said:
There are plenty of deaths in NICUs. Unless other deaths were also identified as intentional, it's not much of a point.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
I think the case for the defence is that there were deaths on the ward when she wasn't there, so who did those?Ratters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.
(I haven't followed the Letby case particularly closely and so don't have a fully formed opinion either way - what I have read does not trouble me, but that could be due to her being guilty or bias in the accounts I have read etc.)
I am about 85% sure she did it.0 -
Cowards. Their 'I'm anti EU but pro Europe' Ryder Cup campaign with Farage back in 2014 was great.TheScreamingEagles said:Well.
Paddy Power has abandoned a Euro 2024 advertising campaign with Boris Johnson after an apparent backlash from its staff against the former Prime Minister.
The lead campaigner for Brexit in 2016 was reportedly due to pull on an England No 10 jersey and declare, “I told you I would get us back in Europe” in the stunt.
However, with Johnson being hired and the script signed off, Dublin-based Paddy Power faced a revolt from its staff in Britain, the New York Times reports. Johnson’s spokesman and the betting firm have been contacted by Telegraph Sport.
Two people familiar with the campaign had told the NYT that a script for the advert had been provided to Johnson. However, the prospect of aligning Johnson with the firm prompted UK staff members to reportedly warn “they were uncomfortable promoting a figure as divisive as Mr Johnson, and particularly with language that poked fun at Brexit”.
“We have been speaking to Boris Johnson’s team about a number of opportunities, one of which was an idea for a cameo role in a TV advert,” Paddy Power’s parent company, the US-headquartered Flutter Entertainment, said.
The company confirmed that Johnson’s role in its Euro 2024 campaign will not be on air although the parent company said “we remain hopeful of working together in the near future”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/05/24/boris-johnson-paddy-power-euro-2024-advert-axed-revolt/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXhLMIDscTI0 -
Yes, the Russian casualty numbers are off the scale, over 10k a week for the last few weeks.Sean_F said:
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
Obviously I want to see the Ukranians win, but it’s horrible to see death and injury actually play out.2 -
Veep nominee.Farooq said:
55 for what? Next VP or to be on the ticket?rottenborough said:Meanwhile, in America...
Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has unexpectedly emerged as a top contender to become Donald J. Trump’s running mate, a signal that the former president is heavily weighing experience and the ability to run a disciplined campaign over other factors.
NY Times
I just got on at 55 on BF.
DYOR.1 -
Think I backed him last time his name is mentioned. Trump seems to be teasing by approving any name an interviewer suggests.rottenborough said:Meanwhile, in America...
Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has unexpectedly emerged as a top contender to become Donald J. Trump’s running mate, a signal that the former president is heavily weighing experience and the ability to run a disciplined campaign over other factors.
NY Times
I just got on at 55 on BF.
DYOR.0 -
The (was it a?) New Yorker article was pretty damning and is consistent with her not being guilty.Selebian said:
There are plenty of deaths in NICUs. Unless other deaths were also identified as intentional, it's not much of a point.BatteryCorrectHorse said:
I think the case for the defence is that there were deaths on the ward when she wasn't there, so who did those?Ratters said:
I thought the evidence presented in court was pretty compelling at the time. The main points I recall are:tlg86 said:
What should really worry you if you think she isn't guilty is that the real killer is still out there. Letby and her legal team accepted that someone was killing babies.Leon said:
lol. I know. It’s probably just election fever and we’ll go back to normalHeathener said:
Interesting.Leon said:
This troubles menumbertwelve said:O/T: Letby denied leave to appeal
A good friend of mine is a very senior forensic psychiatrist employed by the Home Office/cops from time to time. As a consultant. He’s known to be brilliant
He’s personally reviewed the Letby case and he’s fairly sure she is innocent - not convinced, but he certainly has reasonable doubt
I have no dog in this fight. I assumed the conviction was watertight. He told me this over lunch just before Xmas. Disturbing
There’s a long history of vilifying and scapegoating female convicts.
If what you report is true, and I’ve no reason to doubt it, then it’s as you say disturbing that she hasn’t been granted the right to appeal.
Jeez. That’s twice in two days you and I …
But my friend was articulate about his doubts - and he is an expert and he has no reason to lie (this was his opinion as a bystander but a professional). And tbh I was quite resistant - I don’t want to think we’ve sent down an innocent woman for life
But, hmm
The science demonstrated babies were definitely murderered, these weren't accidents. The defence accepts this.
Letby was a common factor across deaths, on duty every time, before and after suspicions were first raised.
Her very disturbing notes at home blaming herself with the words 'I killed them on purpose because I am not good enough to care for them + I am a horrible evil person. I am evil I did this.'
Is the alternative scenario that someone else unknown was responsible who wasn't on rota and that Letby was simply self blaming under the pressure of investigation?
I didn't sit through the entire court case but it hardly screams miscarriage of justice unless I'm missing something.
(I haven't followed the Letby case particularly closely and so don't have a fully formed opinion either way - what I have read does not trouble me, but that could be due to her being guilty or bias in the accounts I have read etc.)0 -
Much as I famously dislike Johnson (let me count the ways...), I can't help thinking this is a bit mean. He's a civilian now - and hopefully for ever - and now can only betray those of his friends and family who still like him, assuming there are some.TheScreamingEagles said:Well.
Paddy Power has abandoned a Euro 2024 advertising campaign with Boris Johnson after an apparent backlash from its staff against the former Prime Minister.
The lead campaigner for Brexit in 2016 was reportedly due to pull on an England No 10 jersey and declare, “I told you I would get us back in Europe” in the stunt.
However, with Johnson being hired and the script signed off, Dublin-based Paddy Power faced a revolt from its staff in Britain, the New York Times reports. Johnson’s spokesman and the betting firm have been contacted by Telegraph Sport.
Two people familiar with the campaign had told the NYT that a script for the advert had been provided to Johnson. However, the prospect of aligning Johnson with the firm prompted UK staff members to reportedly warn “they were uncomfortable promoting a figure as divisive as Mr Johnson, and particularly with language that poked fun at Brexit”.
“We have been speaking to Boris Johnson’s team about a number of opportunities, one of which was an idea for a cameo role in a TV advert,” Paddy Power’s parent company, the US-headquartered Flutter Entertainment, said.
The company confirmed that Johnson’s role in its Euro 2024 campaign will not be on air although the parent company said “we remain hopeful of working together in the near future”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/05/24/boris-johnson-paddy-power-euro-2024-advert-axed-revolt/3 -
Now that Boris is free of advertising commitments, you can get 10/1 against him winning a seat in July.TheScreamingEagles said:Well.
Paddy Power has abandoned a Euro 2024 advertising campaign with Boris Johnson after an apparent backlash from its staff against the former Prime Minister.
The lead campaigner for Brexit in 2016 was reportedly due to pull on an England No 10 jersey and declare, “I told you I would get us back in Europe” in the stunt.
However, with Johnson being hired and the script signed off, Dublin-based Paddy Power faced a revolt from its staff in Britain, the New York Times reports. Johnson’s spokesman and the betting firm have been contacted by Telegraph Sport.
Two people familiar with the campaign had told the NYT that a script for the advert had been provided to Johnson. However, the prospect of aligning Johnson with the firm prompted UK staff members to reportedly warn “they were uncomfortable promoting a figure as divisive as Mr Johnson, and particularly with language that poked fun at Brexit”.
“We have been speaking to Boris Johnson’s team about a number of opportunities, one of which was an idea for a cameo role in a TV advert,” Paddy Power’s parent company, the US-headquartered Flutter Entertainment, said.
The company confirmed that Johnson’s role in its Euro 2024 campaign will not be on air although the parent company said “we remain hopeful of working together in the near future”.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/05/24/boris-johnson-paddy-power-euro-2024-advert-axed-revolt/0 -
He will need a new job soon, so he can do a refresh?TheScreamingEagles said:
You know who developed the Bet365 website?DecrepiterJohnL said:FPT but relevant here
Bet365's advantages include, imo, the best website which is fast, easy to navigate, and not forever trying to tempt you to try their casino games, and no shops. Their prices are generally good but together with their BOG offer, is not as good as they used to be, but generally among the best in the village.
Take this election. Bet365 has prices on most if not all constituencies already. Ladbrokes has 40. Hills has none that I can find. Skybet has 16. Betfair Exchange 50.
And of course it is only Bet365 of those that has prices for Exmouth & Exeter East as per Quincel's header.
The current Tory MP for Newcastle-under-Lyme.1 -
Claudia Webbe running as an indy in Leicester East0
-
That is true. I tend to still get dvds though as backups in case things come off platforms at some point.RochdalePioneers said:
I have various films and TV series on Blu-Ray and DVD. Even the Blu-Ray ones rarely come out of their boxes - often the streaming quality is even higher...williamglenn said:
Who would download music these days? People just stream.Andy_JS said:
Downloads? The only acceptable way to buy music is on vinyl. 😊Heathener said:Things Can Only Get Better is currently No.2 in the iTunes download chart
I know some of you loathe Steve Bray but he and God stole the show on Wednesday. You couldn’t have written a better Thick of It script if you had tried than the PM getting drowned out by the rain and Labour’s winning 1997 anthem.
Pure comedy gold.0 -
This site has been hijacked by discussion of political betting. Where am I supposed to post my holiday snaps now?12
-
Always admissible. The question of the balance of probative v prejudicial does not arise. A smoking gun in your hand following the shot being fired is highly prejudicial. The balance of probative v prejudicial is generally applied to the admission of previous convictions.Quincel said:
I think it's fair to ask whether the notes were truly more probative than prejudicial, but I don't think many courts would have excluded them.Sean_F said:
I would have thought those notes were very admissible.BatteryCorrectHorse said:I am quite staggered her notes were allowed to be admitted at all as firm evidence? I think she probably did do it but to have those as a sign of confession seems quite batty to me, hasn't it been quite conclusively proven that even people that didn't do something have often ended up thinking that they did?
1 -
The soon to be unemployed MP for Ipswich thinks the Tories can win the election by running a Susan Hall type campaign. Ye Gods.1
-
Back in the days when women had 6 children each, on average, rulers could squander huge numbers of young men in wars, sure that in peacetime, the population would bounce back. It's why the carnage in warfare, in the biggest population countries, India and China, tended to be off the scale. Peasant lives were readily expendable.Malmesbury said:
Given that the total Russia birth rate is 1.2 million per year, that is Lost Generation numbers.Sean_F said:
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
But, with birthrates below replacement level, almost everywhere now, outside Africa, it's crazy to throw away lives like that.1 -
On thread (belatedly)
Apply UNS to the 2019 East Devon result, based on the current polling of each party, and you will get something like the following before making any heroic assumptions about where the 40% Independent vote might end up:
Conservative 29% (-22%)
Labour 19% (+12%)
Reform 10% (+10%)
Lib Dem 1% (-2%)
The mind boggles at how the serial election liars otherwise known as LD bar chart graphic designers might interpret that challenging situation, assuming they are bothering with the constituency in the first place.0 -
Yeh, that is the trouble with this market.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Think I backed him last time his name is mentioned. Trump seems to be teasing by approving any name an interviewer suggests.rottenborough said:Meanwhile, in America...
Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has unexpectedly emerged as a top contender to become Donald J. Trump’s running mate, a signal that the former president is heavily weighing experience and the ability to run a disciplined campaign over other factors.
NY Times
I just got on at 55 on BF.
DYOR.
My big bet is JD Vance.
He will be President one day I reckon. Could be via Trump 2.0 or running in 2028.1 -
Turns out it's too bloody expensive to wage war.Sean_F said:
Back in the days when women had 6 children each, on average, rulers could squander huge numbers of young men in wars, sure that in peacetime, the population would bounce back. It's why the carnage in warfare, in the biggest population countries, India and China, tended to be off the scale. Peasant lives were readily expendable.Malmesbury said:
Given that the total Russia birth rate is 1.2 million per year, that is Lost Generation numbers.Sean_F said:
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
But, with birthrates below replacement level, almost everywhere now, outside Africa, it's crazy to throw away lives like that.2 -
Makes sense - the various people trying to copy his style would not add anything, he is already capable of that and adored by the base for it.rottenborough said:Meanwhile, in America...
Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has unexpectedly emerged as a top contender to become Donald J. Trump’s running mate, a signal that the former president is heavily weighing experience and the ability to run a disciplined campaign over other factors.
NY Times
I just got on at 55 on BF.
DYOR.0 -
There's been a notable lack of successful wars of conquest, since 1945. It's far less expensive now, to acquire resources by trade, than by waging war, and having to maintain an army of occupation.kle4 said:
Turns out it's too bloody expensive to wage war.Sean_F said:
Back in the days when women had 6 children each, on average, rulers could squander huge numbers of young men in wars, sure that in peacetime, the population would bounce back. It's why the carnage in warfare, in the biggest population countries, India and China, tended to be off the scale. Peasant lives were readily expendable.Malmesbury said:
Given that the total Russia birth rate is 1.2 million per year, that is Lost Generation numbers.Sean_F said:
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
But, with birthrates below replacement level, almost everywhere now, outside Africa, it's crazy to throw away lives like that.3 -
I mean, if I were them I'd make a bar chart of the last local election results across the constituency (which has them well ahead of Labour overall) and stick Claire Wright's face on it.Wulfrun_Phil said:On thread (belatedly)
Apply UNS to the 2019 East Devon result, based on the current polling of each party, and you will get something like the following before making any heroic assumptions about where the 40% Independent vote might end up:
Conservative 29% (-22%)
Labour 19% (+12%)
Reform 10% (+10%)
Lib Dem 1% (-2%)
The mind boggles at how the serial election liars otherwise known as LD bar chart graphic designers might interpret that challenging situation, assuming they are bothering with the constituency in the first place.
Would that convince enough people? Who knows. But the basis of a LD campaign argument isn't hard to see.1 -
Yes, and factor in the - what - million or so who have fled Russia to avoid the whole unpleasantness, there is going to be quite a dent in this generation. And given that this is the generation which breeds the next, birth rates are going to be through the floor. Russia's demographics are probably even more challenging than China's.Sean_F said:
Back in the days when women had 6 children each, on average, rulers could squander huge numbers of young men in wars, sure that in peacetime, the population would bounce back. It's why the carnage in warfare, in the biggest population countries, India and China, tended to be off the scale. Peasant lives were readily expendable.Malmesbury said:
Given that the total Russia birth rate is 1.2 million per year, that is Lost Generation numbers.Sean_F said:
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
But, with birthrates below replacement level, almost everywhere now, outside Africa, it's crazy to throw away lives like that.
OTOH, they are stealing Ukrainian children from the occupied territories to make up the numbers.1 -
"Abortion rates rise to record levels ‘due to cost of living crisis’
Data shows those in most deprived parts of England almost twice as likely to have termination than in least deprived areas
Maya Oppenheim
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abortions-records-cost-of-living-b2550222.html1 -
He's at 80/1 on Skybet.rottenborough said:
Veep nominee.Farooq said:
55 for what? Next VP or to be on the ticket?rottenborough said:Meanwhile, in America...
Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas has unexpectedly emerged as a top contender to become Donald J. Trump’s running mate, a signal that the former president is heavily weighing experience and the ability to run a disciplined campaign over other factors.
NY Times
I just got on at 55 on BF.
DYOR.1 -
Redwood has today also announced that he has thrown in the towel.
That means that there are 76 current MPs standing down after being elected as Conservatives. Surpassing the record of 75 set in 1997.1 -
A truly depressing statistic.Andy_JS said:"Abortion rates rise to record levels ‘due to cost of living crisis’
Data shows those in most deprived parts of England almost twice as likely to have termination than in least deprived areas
Maya Oppenheim
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abortions-records-cost-of-living-b2550222.html2 -
There are apprenticeships that come with degree-level qualifications, but they’re a complete nightmare to run. There’s an over-the-top bureaucracy. Scrap the current system; strip back the red tape.BatteryCorrectHorse said:You can see how much apprenticeships are looked down upon based on how the Tories have approached them. They are at best badly run and managed, at worst actively set people up badly for work.
If we want to get people out of university and into the job market, apprenticeships need to be seen as tier 1 option not a "you're too stupid to get a degree" option, which they still are.0 -
Does that increase or decrease the chances of a Tory loss in Wokingham? 😊Wulfrun_Phil said:Redwood has today also announced that he has thrown in the towel.
That means that there are 76 current MPs standing down after being elected as Conservatives. Surpassing the record of 75 set in 1997.1 -
I'll believe it when I see it.Sandpit said:
Oh no, how awful this whole process must be for Mrs Vennells…Andy_JS said:More tears at the PO inquiry.
F**k off you bitch, you’re looking at serious prison time.
Very occasionally things are so bad one of the 'right sort' has to be punished, then sheer incompetence is not sufficient explanation, but it is rare.0 -
The article: https://conservativehome.com/2024/05/24/tom-hunt-hall-embodies-the-2019-realignment-her-london-campaign-can-br-our-rolemodel/ToryJim said:The soon to be unemployed MP for Ipswich thinks the Tories can win the election by running a Susan Hall type campaign. Ye Gods.
I think this is more about the post-election period than the campaign. This is the starting gun on the leadership contest.0 -
Tories cut benefits for third and subsequent children because they wanted the poor to know that having kids costs money... as though they didn't know that already.Andy_JS said:"Abortion rates rise to record levels ‘due to cost of living crisis’
Data shows those in most deprived parts of England almost twice as likely to have termination than in least deprived areas
Maya Oppenheim
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abortions-records-cost-of-living-b2550222.html4 -
I think nuclear weapons might have something to do with itSean_F said:
There's been a notable lack of successful wars of conquest, since 1945. It's far less expensive now, to acquire resources by trade, than by waging war, and having to maintain an army of occupation.kle4 said:
Turns out it's too bloody expensive to wage war.Sean_F said:
Back in the days when women had 6 children each, on average, rulers could squander huge numbers of young men in wars, sure that in peacetime, the population would bounce back. It's why the carnage in warfare, in the biggest population countries, India and China, tended to be off the scale. Peasant lives were readily expendable.Malmesbury said:
Given that the total Russia birth rate is 1.2 million per year, that is Lost Generation numbers.Sean_F said:
I was reading that Russian casualties have been hitting 1,200 a day, lately, which is a crazy waste of men.Cicero said:Putin is playing with fire... literally.
https://twitter.com/arnocast/status/1793895478330806283?cxt=HBwWlsCy4dubmeUxAAAA&cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw==&refsrc=email
But, with birthrates below replacement level, almost everywhere now, outside Africa, it's crazy to throw away lives like that.0 -
Hm - but it's not obvious that correlation = causation in that case.Sean_F said:
A truly depressing statistic.Andy_JS said:"Abortion rates rise to record levels ‘due to cost of living crisis’
Data shows those in most deprived parts of England almost twice as likely to have termination than in least deprived areas
Maya Oppenheim
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abortions-records-cost-of-living-b2550222.html
I would expect abortions are most common among younger adult unmarried women - baldly, these tend not to be clustered in affluent areas, which are older and more married.0 -
Fun Fact: I knew Tom Hunt reasonably well at uni through the debating union. Since it's distasteful to kick a man when he's on the floor I'll leave it at that.Eabhal said:
The article: https://conservativehome.com/2024/05/24/tom-hunt-hall-embodies-the-2019-realignment-her-london-campaign-can-br-our-rolemodel/ToryJim said:The soon to be unemployed MP for Ipswich thinks the Tories can win the election by running a Susan Hall type campaign. Ye Gods.
I think this is more about the post-election period than the campaign. This is the starting gun on the leadership contest.0
