The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
YES already losing badly after just 0.5% votes counted in Oz
63-37
It’s gonna be a thrashing, and a humiliation for the PM
Is this the Australia referendum? Rural Tasmania likely to be reporting first.
Somewhere, some Australian is keeping an AndyJS style spreadsheet and knows exactly what that means.
The BBC will be very disappointed if the referendum is lost. The first piece of theirs I read on the issue was basically 'Yes is marvellous, No are mostly racists'.
Happily, since it's nothing to do with me or this country there's nothing riding on the outcome one way or another so no emotional component.
The partiality on every article I’ve read about this on the BBC really took me aback.
Some outlets seem to come at it from the angle of “this is unreservedly A Good Idea so how can you possibly reject it?” Which it isn’t really the job of the BBC to do. Funny how they’re so steadfast in allowing people to “make up their own minds” on other issues….
I think on foreign issues they seem to be more comfortable with taking a clearer slant on events perhaps.
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
You forgot cricket and Fosters.
The latter is just as well, nobody in Australia drinks that pisswater.
YES already losing badly after just 0.5% votes counted in Oz
63-37
It’s gonna be a thrashing, and a humiliation for the PM
Is this the Australia referendum? Rural Tasmania likely to be reporting first.
Somewhere, some Australian is keeping an AndyJS style spreadsheet and knows exactly what that means.
The BBC will be very disappointed if the referendum is lost. The first piece of theirs I read on the issue was basically 'Yes is marvellous, No are mostly racists'.
Happily, since it's nothing to do with me or this country there's nothing riding on the outcome one way or another so no emotional component.
The partiality on every article I’ve read about this on the BBC really took me aback.
Some outlets seem to come at it from the angle of “this is unreservedly A Good Idea so how can you possibly reject it?” Which it isn’t really the job of the BBC to do. Funny how they’re so steadfast in allowing people to “make up their own minds” on other issues….
I think on foreign issues they seem to be more comfortable with taking a clearer slant on events perhaps.
In the realm of UK politics they’re required to be ‘impartial’.
This is an object lesson in how to lose a referendum
At one point YES was close to 70% in the polls. Incredible
The basic issue is it sounds nice “give indigenous people a voice” so it has wide but shallow support
And then as voters pay attention they realised it was a terrible idea badly executed - essentially it was setting up a pathway whereby a minority community had an effective veto over decisions
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
Also, country's should vote in what they think is in their best interest, not on the message it sends to others.
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
You forgot cricket and Fosters.
The latter is just as well, nobody in Australia drinks that pisswater.
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
Quite so
If anything has damaged Australia's image this week it has been the sight of a large crowd outside Sydney Opera House chanting “gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!”
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
Quite so
If anything has damaged Australia's image this week it has been the sight of a large crowd outside Sydney Opera House chanting “gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!”
Absolutely fucking hideous
If I were Australian, THAT would make me ashamed
We can hardly talk, looking at some of the scenes coming out of London and elsewhere this week, that makes me totally ashamed too.
Since the horrific attack by Hamas on innocent Israeli civilians last weekend, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has expressed unambiguous support for Israel regardless, apparently, of how it chooses to respond.
The Israeli flag was projected on her headquarters, the Berlaymont, in the wake of the attacks and was hoisted alongside that of the European Union, and she invited the Israeli ambassador to the EU to join the weekly meeting of European commissioners on Wednesday.
In public posts she declared that the European Union stands with Israel “today and in the days to come” and “in the next weeks”, an apparent signal not just of the bloc’s sympathy over the attacks but also its sanction for Israel’s retaliation.
Her approach has caused deepening unease within European institutions and in national capitals as Israel undertakes what the Taoiseach has described as “collective punishment” against the people of Gaza, cutting off water, food and electricity, and now ordering over a million people to evacuate in 24 hours to the alarm of the United Nations.
"‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"
If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
In my bid for the most blatant statement of the obvious this morning, I would comment that I wouldn't count on it. It is one of the worst failures of our justice system in history but it will be swept away with very few, if any, being actually held to account.
If that does turn out to be the case, perhaps someone might try to persuade the Good Law Project to fund cases for malicious prosecution ?
On the Australian referendum ballot paper, you actually have to write ‘YES’ or ‘NO’. I doubt the Electoral Commission would give their blessing to that here.
"‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"
If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
In my bid for the most blatant statement of the obvious this morning, I would comment that I wouldn't count on it. It is one of the worst failures of our justice system in history but it will be swept away with very few, if any, being actually held to account.
I'd be amazed if anyone gets more than a slap on the wrist - (metaphorically speaking, I don't want to get arrested for advocating violence).
Is it any wonder the FA failed to show adequate support for murdered victims of Hamas terrorism, this time, with people like this informing the decision.
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
Quite so
If anything has damaged Australia's image this week it has been the sight of a large crowd outside Sydney Opera House chanting “gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!”
Absolutely fucking hideous
If I were Australian, THAT would make me ashamed
We can hardly talk, looking at some of the scenes coming out of London and elsewhere this week, that makes me totally ashamed too.
Well yes. But we’ve not had a large crowd outside Westminster screaming “gas the Jews!”
I mean, it is beyond despicable. Makes the blood run cold. WTAF
YES already losing badly after just 0.5% votes counted in Oz
63-37
It’s gonna be a thrashing, and a humiliation for the PM
Is this the Australia referendum? Rural Tasmania likely to be reporting first.
Somewhere, some Australian is keeping an AndyJS style spreadsheet and knows exactly what that means.
The BBC will be very disappointed if the referendum is lost. The first piece of theirs I read on the issue was basically 'Yes is marvellous, No are mostly racists'.
Happily, since it's nothing to do with me or this country there's nothing riding on the outcome one way or another so no emotional component.
It’s a fun one for me because I love seeing the Woke humiliated and also it’s a test of my knowledge of Australia, and the flavour of politics in each district
So far I’m doing ok. I’ve noticed my younger daughter’s district - Berowra, NSW - is pretty much exactly 50/50
What’s woke about Yes . Putting aside the issues around the practicalities of implementation. Or don’t you think people should be treated equally ?
You do come out with a lot of detritus interspersed with some interesting posts when you’re not trying to be controversial!
Absolutely people should be treated equally
The Voice was giving special representation to a segment of society. That’s not equal treatment.
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
You forgot cricket and Fosters.
The latter is just as well, nobody in Australia drinks that pisswater.
Even the Aussies themselves have forgotten rugby.
Their performances in India suggest they've forgotten cricket too.
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
Quite so
If anything has damaged Australia's image this week it has been the sight of a large crowd outside Sydney Opera House chanting “gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!”
Absolutely fucking hideous
If I were Australian, THAT would make me ashamed
We can hardly talk, looking at some of the scenes coming out of London and elsewhere this week, that makes me totally ashamed too.
In a perverse way it could also make us proud that we make up a country where these protesters aren’t tear-gassed, rounded up and tortured then sent to a nasty prison and never heard from again.
I’m guessing the pro-Israel protesters in Tehran this week have just been monitored by the Iranian police but allowed their free speech. What’s that you say? Nobody would dare?
The sad thing is that the pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel protesters don’t acknowledge they are lucky they live in a free society. The female protesters can turn up at the protest in London or Sydney without a chaperone. Kiss some guy they meet in the excitement of protest without being flogged for adultery. Queers for Palestine can chant away ignoring the fact that if the Palestinians would be given Israel they aren’t going to be going on holiday and welcomed and lauded as they walk along with their partner hand in hand along the beach in Eilat, they will be thinking they might have made the wrong call as they take their last breaths dangling from a crane for being “queer”.
Perhaps those that want a “free Palestine” should start from the point of saying “we will support a free Palestine when the Palestinians reject the bigotry and medieval attitudes and confirm that if they get a ‘free Palestine’ with our support they will be a free and liberal society.” But they won’t.
From The Guardian live feed on the Aussie referendum it looks like the political classes, or those quoted, are disappointed and this issue will be back.
A peoples vote perhaps so they can vote the right way ?
I got my printer working again by basically switching off my entire home and switching everything on again. Process took 30 minutes. Convenient
Printers are genuinely evil things.
I always recommend people get a Laserjet rather than an inkjet printer, they’re a million times more reliable and you change the toner every 10,000 pages or so.
I once spent three years running IT support for an office of about 350 people. My biggest single achievement in that time, was to get a large number of small printers replaced, by a small number of large printers with service contracts!
It saved us tens thousands of pounds a year in supplies, replacements, and an inordinate amount of labour responding to the constant calls about the bloody things not working properly. From memory we started off with about 30 printers, and finished with six proper copier/printer/scanner thingies, plus three new small printers for the CEO and heads of finance and HR. Each HoD would also get a weekly report on how much each of their team was using the printers, in an attempt to get them to save paper.
I agree that inkjet printers are the bastard offspring of a satanic marketing department and people who buy Range Rovers.
Interesting - I have several printers, including a colour A3 duplex effort that can deal with all the output in an Estate Agents' office, and one that will do commercial quality Giclee at A1 size. Buying new inks for that is an experience, which cost about £500 just for compatibles not originals.
My suggestion would be a low end monchrome A4 laser duplex, which will cost perhaps £100-150 and last a decade. I have a Samsung Xpress M2835DW bought in 2017, which is still going strong. Samsung printers are now part of HP since 2016.
My comment on the HP is that I wouldn't get a multifunction device. If I want to "scan" I put it on a well lit surface and take a photograph, which does about 95%+ of requirements OK.
"‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"
If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
In my bid for the most blatant statement of the obvious this morning, I would comment that I wouldn't count on it. It is one of the worst failures of our justice system in history but it will be swept away with very few, if any, being actually held to account.
You may well be right, David.
There are some senior judges and other pillars of the establishment who don't come out of it too well.
We'll see. At present the case for multiple charges of perjury and perverting the course of justice looks overwhelming.
The Australian referendum issue for yes was there wasn’t a clear plan for how they would implement the vote . One hopes this was the main reason for No winning and not depressingly that so many Aussies are racist .
Its not racism, its that the Voice was a terribly implemented bad idea.
The general principle got an overwhelming 70%+ support at first, it was only when people learnt more about it that it became rejected.
It’s a shame because a No vote sends a very poor message to the rest of the world .
It doesn’t really, apart from a few global activists, the Guardian, PB and other global political geek websites and inevitably a UN committee on Racism chaired by a country where they have grim human rights the rest of the world doesn’t know or care about this story.
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
Quite so
If anything has damaged Australia's image this week it has been the sight of a large crowd outside Sydney Opera House chanting “gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!”
Absolutely fucking hideous
If I were Australian, THAT would make me ashamed
We can hardly talk, looking at some of the scenes coming out of London and elsewhere this week, that makes me totally ashamed too.
In a perverse way it could also make us proud that we make up a country where these protesters aren’t tear-gassed, rounded up and tortured then sent to a nasty prison and never heard from again.
I’m guessing the pro-Israel protesters in Tehran this week have just been monitored by the Iranian police but allowed their free speech. What’s that you say? Nobody would dare?
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Met police seem to have said anyone with a Hamas flag will be arrested.
Could be an 'interesting' day in the capital I guess.
Hamas are a terrorist organisation - no dispute there - so the laws and the powers exist to do this. I'm interested in two things:
Has this type of arrest been made before for a terrorist-organisation supporter waving a flag? Which law is such an arrest made under?
Unlikely perhaps to be Hamas going back some way, as Hamas were proscribed in 2 stages - the military side in 2001, and the rest of it in 2021, when it was assessed that the military / political distinction was artificial.
I put that split down to Foreign Office confused thinking, which would allow a potential excuse that "but .. but ... but I only support the political side".
Winston Peters could still be required for a government if the results change slightly, with overhang seats, as mentioned earlier.
The most extraordinary result so far is that National is 200 votes ahead in Mount Albert with 57% counted. This was Jacinda's seat (and Helen Clark's before that). Jacinda had 71% last time. NZ TV and radio commentators saying that the loss is Jacinda's fault and people don't like the fact she cut and run when it got hard.
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Rishi avoids it himself but has no problem giving the populists like Braverman free reign to woo extremists with language which is often the exact opposite of his own position, as on whether integration has gone well or badly in the UK.
I doubt Cameron would have stood for that. Stewart would be far more scathing of Johnson, rightly so.
It is not impossible the Tories could gain seats in Scotland due to the declining SNP vote, even if they lose seats in the UK overall and lose power to Labour
"‘Angry’ lawyer warned against Post Office computer investigation in 2010 email Angered by his exclusion from an important discussion, former Royal Mail lawyer told colleagues of the risks to the Post Office if, as planned, they publicly investigate allegations against its computer system Karl Flinders, Chief reporter and senior editor EMEA"
If the Inquiry does its work properly, and it is followed up rigorously, we can expect to see hundreds in court facing charges of perjury and attempting to pervert the course of justice.
In my bid for the most blatant statement of the obvious this morning, I would comment that I wouldn't count on it. It is one of the worst failures of our justice system in history but it will be swept away with very few, if any, being actually held to account.
You may well be right, David.
There are some senior judges and other pillars of the establishment who don't come out of it too well.
We'll see. At present the case for multiple charges of perjury and perverting the course of justice looks overwhelming.
This ought to be meat and drink for Starmer. And if Sunak REALLY wants to present himself as a break with the past he could take it seriously. What is stopping them? Do we have to wait for all the drama to finish playing out?
It is not impossible the Tories could gain seats in Scotland due to the declining SNP vote, even if they lose seats in the UK overall and lose power to Labour
That did happen in 2017 (minus the losing power), but if the Tories drop more than they did then, which seems likely, will they really be able to hold on and gain in Scotland even then?
Maybe one of the reasons the Tories are doing slightly better in Scotland is because it has an older population than England, and the Conservatives do best with that age group.
ON the header (thanks, Mike), does anyone have any thoughts on why Lisa Cameron defected to the Conservatives, and not to Labour?
Looking at the results from the last Election, where Lab + Tories were about equal on 12k votes, and the SNP were on 26k, she appears to be leaping onto an already half-sunk ship. Why?
Will she have much of a personal vote, having been an MP for a few years there?
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
I perhaps naively assume popularity would be a component in populism, right wing or otherwise. Rishi is foolishly aping populism, it’s just that he’s very, very bad at it.
With 35% in No 56% and Yes 43. No ahead by over 60% in Queensland and South Australia, over 55% in Tasmania and NSW and over 50% in Victoria. So far only ACT which contains Canberra has voted Yes. Looks like at least as big a win for No as the 1999 monarchy referendum and 2014 Scottish referendum and even bigger than Brexit.
Also looks like a good morning for King Charles III. If Labor PM Albanese had won this Voice for Aborigines referendum he would have then started to press for a republic referendum. However Yes having been trounced he won't risk it and Albanese will now have to put it on the backburner and find some constitutional settlement for Aborigines that most Australians will accept.
In NZ meanwhile it also looks like the republican Labor government and republican Labor PM Hipkins has been defeated too and the conservative Nationals will return to power and the monarchist Winston Peters could well have the balance of power
ON the header (thanks, Mike), does anyone have any thoughts on why Lisa Cameron defected to the Conservatives, and not to Labour?
Looking at the results from the last Election, where Lab + Tories were about equal on 12k votes, and the SNP were on 26k, she appears to be leaping onto an already half-sunk ship. Why?
Will she have much of a personal vote, having been an MP for a few years there?
Amongst her various somewhat confusing statements, the seemingly verifiable one is that Cameron is not standing in her old seat.
Thank-you for your local-knowledge reply at 4:37am, @JosiasJessop .
I know St Ives well - family friends who rented the other half of my parents' first house in 196x moved down by St Ives Church in the 1970s, and the lady from the couple still lives in the same house in her late 80s. We used to go out canoeing together when I was in my early teens - great memories ,
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Its another irregular verb:
I listen to the people You play to the gallery He is a populist
People who loudly decry 'populism' would seem to prefer a system where 'people like them' don't get a vote and decisions are take by 'people like me'.
Interestingly it looks like while outer suburbs and rural areas in Australia have overwhelmingly rejected the Voice, most inner city areas have backed it. Even wealthy areas like Wentworth which has an Independent and used to be strong Liberal. Similar demographics to Brexit
With 35% in No 56% and Yes 43. No ahead by over 60% in Queensland and South Australia, over 55% in Tasmania and NSW and over 50% in Victoria. So far only ACT which contains Canberra has voted Yes. Looks like at least as big a win for No as the 1999 monarchy referendum and 2014 Scottish referendum and even bigger than Brexit.
Also looks like a good morning for King Charles III. If Labor PM Albanese had won this Voice for Aborigines referendum he would have then started to press for a republic referendum. However Yes having been trounced he won't risk it and Albanese will now have to put it on the backburner and find some constitutional settlement for Aborigines that most Australians will accept.
In NZ meanwhile it also looks like the republican Labor government and republican Labor PM Hipkins has been defeated too and the conservative Nationals will return to power and the monarchist Winston Peters could well have the balance of power
"Even bigger than the Brexit win" is not, to be fair, an especially tough ask
Planes as well. Pilots are often asked to ‘cycle’ a circuit breaker or two, in response to problems with systems in flight, and the systems are designed to reset and in some cases recalibrate themselves, following a power cycle.
It is not impossible the Tories could gain seats in Scotland due to the declining SNP vote, even if they lose seats in the UK overall and lose power to Labour
That did happen in 2017 (minus the losing power), but if the Tories drop more than they did then, which seems likely, will they really be able to hold on and gain in Scotland even then?
Even the SNP drop even more Yes. On latest Scottish polls SNP down over 10% since 2019 but the Tories down only 6%
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Its another irregular verb:
I listen to the people You play to the gallery He is a populist
People who loudly decry 'populism' would seem to prefer a system where 'people like them' don't get a vote and decisions are take by 'people like me'.
It is a bit of a rubbish word as there are several slightly different meanings plus it also gets conflated with popularity.
I, softly but persistently, decry the type of politics that puts one group against another scapegoat group in search of cheap votes. Call it what you will.
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Rishi avoids it himself but has no problem giving the populists like Braverman free reign to woo extremists with language which is often the exact opposite of his own position, as on whether integration has gone well or badly in the UK.
I doubt Cameron would have stood for that. Stewart would be far more scathing of Johnson, rightly so.
The bigger issue may be that he didn't get a mandate from the members and he is trying to keep the party together. That means some difficult compromises. I thought it was a moment of weakness in bringing back Braverman and now he is stuck with her.
The funny thing is that she is seriously unpopular with the electorate.
With Qld and WA to come I reckon my prediction of 58/42 NO will be close to the mark
Now 57/43.
Also an utter humiliation for Wokeism down under, most Australians overwhelmingly rejecting a specific voice for Aborigines to the Australian Parliament despite almost all left liberals and urban elites in Australia pushing for it.
That said, there still needs to be some means to better consult Aborigines, they being the original peoples' of Australia after all
Winston Peters could still be required for a government if the results change slightly, with overhang seats, as mentioned earlier.
The most extraordinary result so far is that National is 200 votes ahead in Mount Albert with 57% counted. This was Jacinda's seat (and Helen Clark's before that). Jacinda had 71% last time. NZ TV and radio commentators saying that the loss is Jacinda's fault and people don't like the fact she cut and run when it got hard.
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
Saint Jacinda is now radiating her goodness at Prince Williams vanity project. The Earthshot Prize.
You don't get swings like this in UK elections, where a seat that was 71% to 19% is possibly going to go the other way. Canada and NZ have these big swings from time to time.
Surprising as the main parties seem fairly far apart politically at the moment. You’d expect the swingiest elections to be in countries where the parties are managerial rather than ideological, so more people are prepared to switch votes.
Oddly, it's Canada that has the swingiest elections, with once-dominant parties being relegated to fringe status overnight.
Update 13th October: A section of this article outlining the debate over Australia's Voice to Parliament proposal has been amended to more precisely summarise the points at issue.
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Its another irregular verb:
I listen to the people You play to the gallery He is a populist
People who loudly decry 'populism' would seem to prefer a system where 'people like them' don't get a vote and decisions are take by 'people like me'.
It is a bit of a rubbish word as there are several slightly different meanings plus it also gets conflated with popularity.
I, softly but persistently, decry the type of politics that puts one group against another scapegoat group in search of cheap votes. Call it what you will.
That's an inevitable consequence of politicians making promises they cannot keep and wealth consumption rising at a faster pace than wealth creation.
So to keep one group satisfied another group must lose out.
And its easier to take from a group if they've first been demonised.
Update 13th October: A section of this article outlining the debate over Australia's Voice to Parliament proposal has been amended to more precisely summarise the points at issue.
Winston Peters could still be required for a government if the results change slightly, with overhang seats, as mentioned earlier.
The most extraordinary result so far is that National is 200 votes ahead in Mount Albert with 57% counted. This was Jacinda's seat (and Helen Clark's before that). Jacinda had 71% last time. NZ TV and radio commentators saying that the loss is Jacinda's fault and people don't like the fact she cut and run when it got hard.
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
Saint Jacinda is now radiating her goodness at Prince Williams vanity project. The Earthshot Prize.
I remember when being the President or PM of a country was the greatest honour a politician could have. Now it seems to be just a step on the way to well-paid sinecures with lots of travel and expenses.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Rishi avoids it himself but has no problem giving the populists like Braverman free reign to woo extremists with language which is often the exact opposite of his own position, as on whether integration has gone well or badly in the UK.
I doubt Cameron would have stood for that. Stewart would be far more scathing of Johnson, rightly so.
The bigger issue may be that he didn't get a mandate from the members and he is trying to keep the party together. That means some difficult compromises. I thought it was a moment of weakness in bringing back Braverman and now he is stuck with her.
The funny thing is that she is seriously unpopular with the electorate.
Popular with the members though. Some surprising ones in the list like Tugendhat in the top third. The ones who have been known the longest like Gove, Hunt and Shapps are amongst the most unpopular, which is a reflection of what happens to politicians who rise to the top of a party that promises to deliver unicorns.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
It's like BREXIT and Trump....."those fecking proles have got it wrong".
Winston Peters could still be required for a government if the results change slightly, with overhang seats, as mentioned earlier.
The most extraordinary result so far is that National is 200 votes ahead in Mount Albert with 57% counted. This was Jacinda's seat (and Helen Clark's before that). Jacinda had 71% last time. NZ TV and radio commentators saying that the loss is Jacinda's fault and people don't like the fact she cut and run when it got hard.
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
How could that be, I was assured that everyone found her decision to stand down to be heroically brave and honest and nothing but praiseworthy.
Winston Peters could still be required for a government if the results change slightly, with overhang seats, as mentioned earlier.
The most extraordinary result so far is that National is 200 votes ahead in Mount Albert with 57% counted. This was Jacinda's seat (and Helen Clark's before that). Jacinda had 71% last time. NZ TV and radio commentators saying that the loss is Jacinda's fault and people don't like the fact she cut and run when it got hard.
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
Saint Jacinda is now radiating her goodness at Prince Williams vanity project. The Earthshot Prize.
I remember when being the President or PM of a country was the greatest honour a politician could have. Now it seems to be just a step on the way to well-paid sinecures with lots of travel and expenses.
Indeed. Sanna Marin also being a recent case in point and St Nicola of Sturgeon will probably end up somewhere similar too.
Chris Curtis @chriscurtis94 It may be supprising that "No" won the Voice referendum, until you learn that Crosby Textor were working for the "Yes" campaign.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
It's like BREXIT and Trump....."those fecking proles have got it wrong".
And by an even greater margin than Brexit (and remember Trump never won the popular vote, almost 60% of Australians are voting No here, this is a near landslide)
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
Leaving aside anything else, it essentially seems to be saying it was inherently unreasonable for the No campaign to oppose Yes and try to convince other people to oppose Yes.
It's common to seek to blame the voters but try to pretend you are not by blaming the people who convinced the voters (in this case poisoning them), but that statement does earlier on blame the voters directly (which is indeed admirably direct), so not sure why the other stuff.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
We need to ship out the team behind ‘Peoples Vote’ to organised a campaign for them to vote and vote until they get it right.
I’d be interested to see the demographic breakdown of the respective votes. Australia, in part, is quite multi racial.
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
If you do not know of Rory Stewart's contempt for Boris, you've not been paying attention. That said, I've not noticed him describing Rishi as a right wing populist so perhaps I too am asleep on the job.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
It's like BREXIT and Trump....."those fecking proles have got it wrong".
When you lose a democratic election and your immediate reaction is: "the opposition have a lot to answer for" - ie my defeat is because my opponents are evil - then you are in a bad place
What a stupid referendum to call. Now Australia is worse than it was, and the divisions are nastier
THAT is what Albanese should get the blame for. Not losing a democratic vote. Calling it in the first place
Been doing a bookkeeping exercise while watching the cricket this morning, we had a discussion last month about whether or not the ONS should include till level discounts in their measure of CPI (I think they should, other people say they shouldn't) so I decided to track a month of receipts and till/app discounts only available to people who shop with loyalty card discounts.
I spent the month shopping absolutely as normal and made no effort to change what I buy based on the discounts available, so items I got discounted was coincidental.
On average the full price shop per week for my household (we shop in Sainsbury's) was £108.67, after loyalty discounts that average fell to £101.54 and after personalised discounts it fell to the actual average of £99.28. My wife suggested we take the extra step of doing the nectar stuff as well so she went into the nectar app every week and added all of the available personalised offers, after taking those additional nectar points into account the average weekly shop would yield an average of 440 nectar points, worth £2.20 making the average weekly basket cost an equivalent of £97.08.
We saved an average of 11% off our weekly shop sticker price basically by just using the Sainsbury's smart shop app and nectar app, again with no effort made to actually take advantage of these offers by substituting products when they have a personalised discount or loyalty discount applied. If we multiplied our monthly saving by 12 to get the annualised rate it's £600 per year and I'm sure if we planned the shop in advance based on the offers available or just switched products based on what's in store that number would go up a bit.
Overall - it was piss easy to do a once a week login to an app to apply personalised offers and using the shopping app in store rather than going to the till or using the hand scanner. Anyone not doing these things is missing potentially an 11% discount from their weekly shop.
Now that we've fallen into the habit I'm pretty sure we're going to keep it going, there's no real downside.
Update 13th October: A section of this article outlining the debate over Australia's Voice to Parliament proposal has been amended to more precisely summarise the points at issue.
Is it any wonder fewer and fewer people trust mainstream media reporting when it doesn’t even pretend to be anything more than a series of opinion pieces presented as news.
Winston Peters could still be required for a government if the results change slightly, with overhang seats, as mentioned earlier.
The most extraordinary result so far is that National is 200 votes ahead in Mount Albert with 57% counted. This was Jacinda's seat (and Helen Clark's before that). Jacinda had 71% last time. NZ TV and radio commentators saying that the loss is Jacinda's fault and people don't like the fact she cut and run when it got hard.
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
Saint Jacinda is now radiating her goodness at Prince Williams vanity project. The Earthshot Prize.
I remember when being the President or PM of a country was the greatest honour a politician could have. Now it seems to be just a step on the way to well-paid sinecures with lots of travel and expenses.
Wait till we see what Rishi gets, given his career as a politician will be over before he is 45. That's a lot of time to fill up, and I don't think many will Jimmy Carter as their retirement plan.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
Translation: Next time don't trust the oiks to approve a liberal progressive, woke measure unless absolutely no doubt about the result
Winston Peters could still be required for a government if the results change slightly, with overhang seats, as mentioned earlier.
The most extraordinary result so far is that National is 200 votes ahead in Mount Albert with 57% counted. This was Jacinda's seat (and Helen Clark's before that). Jacinda had 71% last time. NZ TV and radio commentators saying that the loss is Jacinda's fault and people don't like the fact she cut and run when it got hard.
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
Saint Jacinda is now radiating her goodness at Prince Williams vanity project. The Earthshot Prize.
I remember when being the President or PM of a country was the greatest honour a politician could have. Now it seems to be just a step on the way to well-paid sinecures with lots of travel and expenses.
Indeed. Sanna Marin also being a recent case in point and St Nicola of Sturgeon will probably end up somewhere similar too.
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Its another irregular verb:
I listen to the people You play to the gallery He is a populist
People who loudly decry 'populism' would seem to prefer a system where 'people like them' don't get a vote and decisions are take by 'people like me'.
It is a bit of a rubbish word as there are several slightly different meanings plus it also gets conflated with popularity.
I, softly but persistently, decry the type of politics that puts one group against another scapegoat group in search of cheap votes. Call it what you will.
That's an inevitable consequence of politicians making promises they cannot keep and wealth consumption rising at a faster pace than wealth creation.
So to keep one group satisfied another group must lose out.
And its easier to take from a group if they've first been demonised.
The degree to which it happens varies between political parties and individual politicians within them. So the extent to which it happens and the extent of the damage it causes to the social fabric is not inevitable, even if one accepts your cynical worldview.
Sunak could replace Braverman with someone else and reduce the damage but he sticks to her as he is frit and weak.
Update 13th October: A section of this article outlining the debate over Australia's Voice to Parliament proposal has been amended to more precisely summarise the points at issue.
Update 13th October: A section of this article outlining the debate over Australia's Voice to Parliament proposal has been amended to more precisely summarise the points at issue.
Is it any wonder fewer and fewer people trust mainstream media reporting when it doesn’t even pretend to be anything more than a series of opinion pieces presented as news.
If that's so, I don't understand why even more obvious opinion pieces presented as news is what is replacing it.
It's like when a party loses an election massively and goes "The voters did not like what we stood for and voted for the complete opposite. What the voters clearly want is for us to double down on what we stood for, they are crying out for it".
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
It's like BREXIT and Trump....."those fecking proles have got it wrong".
When you lose a democratic election and your immediate reaction is: "the opposition have a lot to answer for" - ie my defeat is because my opponents are evil - then you are in a bad place
What a stupid referendum to call. Now Australia is worse than it was, and the divisions are nastier
THAT is what Albanese should get the blame for. Not losing a democratic vote. Calling it in the first place
If you go into a campaign with such an attitude, you deserve to lose, and you probably get people voting against you for that reason alone.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
We need to ship out the team behind ‘Peoples Vote’ to organised a campaign for them to vote and vote until they get it right.
I’d be interested to see the demographic breakdown of the respective votes. Australia, in part, is quite multi racial.
It's actually fairly simple in terms of electoral geography. Rich/young inner city Australia - specifically Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane - voted YES. Along with Canberra and Hobart (Perth will probably be the same)
Been doing a bookkeeping exercise while watching the cricket this morning, we had a discussion last month about whether or not the ONS should include till level discounts in their measure of CPI (I think they should, other people say they shouldn't) so I decided to track a month of receipts and till/app discounts only available to people who shop with loyalty card discounts.
I spent the month shopping absolutely as normal and made no effort to change what I buy based on the discounts available, so items I got discounted was coincidental.
On average the full price shop per week for my household (we shop in Sainsbury's) was £108.67, after loyalty discounts that average fell to £101.54 and after personalised discounts it fell to the actual average of £99.28. My wife suggested we take the extra step of doing the nectar stuff as well so she went into the nectar app every week and added all of the available personalised offers, after taking those additional nectar points into account the average weekly shop would yield an average of 440 nectar points, worth £2.20 making the average weekly basket cost an equivalent of £97.08.
We saved an average of 11% off our weekly shop sticker price basically by just using the Sainsbury's smart shop app and nectar app, again with no effort made to actually take advantage of these offers by substituting products when they have a personalised discount or loyalty discount applied. If we multiplied our monthly saving by 12 to get the annualised rate it's £600 per year and I'm sure if we planned the shop in advance based on the offers available or just switched products based on what's in store that number would go up a bit.
Overall - it was piss easy to do a once a week login to an app to apply personalised offers and using the shopping app in store rather than going to the till or using the hand scanner. Anyone not doing these things is missing potentially an 11% discount from their weekly shop.
Now that we've fallen into the habit I'm pretty sure we're going to keep it going, there's no real downside.
Or you could just go to Lidl or Aldi where the price is the price and save all that time wasted on book keeping. Marketing pricing scams just so you dont get ripped off are one of the more unpleasant features of shopping .
Been doing a bookkeeping exercise while watching the cricket this morning, we had a discussion last month about whether or not the ONS should include till level discounts in their measure of CPI (I think they should, other people say they shouldn't) so I decided to track a month of receipts and till/app discounts only available to people who shop with loyalty card discounts.
I spent the month shopping absolutely as normal and made no effort to change what I buy based on the discounts available, so items I got discounted was coincidental.
On average the full price shop per week for my household (we shop in Sainsbury's) was £108.67, after loyalty discounts that average fell to £101.54 and after personalised discounts it fell to the actual average of £99.28. My wife suggested we take the extra step of doing the nectar stuff as well so she went into the nectar app every week and added all of the available personalised offers, after taking those additional nectar points into account the average weekly shop would yield an average of 440 nectar points, worth £2.20 making the average weekly basket cost an equivalent of £97.08.
We saved an average of 11% off our weekly shop sticker price basically by just using the Sainsbury's smart shop app and nectar app, again with no effort made to actually take advantage of these offers by substituting products when they have a personalised discount or loyalty discount applied. If we multiplied our monthly saving by 12 to get the annualised rate it's £600 per year and I'm sure if we planned the shop in advance based on the offers available or just switched products based on what's in store that number would go up a bit.
Overall - it was piss easy to do a once a week login to an app to apply personalised offers and using the shopping app in store rather than going to the till or using the hand scanner. Anyone not doing these things is missing potentially an 11% discount from their weekly shop.
Now that we've fallen into the habit I'm pretty sure we're going to keep it going, there's no real downside.
Life is much cheaper for those who are internet savvy, numerate and time rich. Any two from three also make a difference as well.
Been doing a bookkeeping exercise while watching the cricket this morning, we had a discussion last month about whether or not the ONS should include till level discounts in their measure of CPI (I think they should, other people say they shouldn't) so I decided to track a month of receipts and till/app discounts only available to people who shop with loyalty card discounts.
I spent the month shopping absolutely as normal and made no effort to change what I buy based on the discounts available, so items I got discounted was coincidental.
On average the full price shop per week for my household (we shop in Sainsbury's) was £108.67, after loyalty discounts that average fell to £101.54 and after personalised discounts it fell to the actual average of £99.28. My wife suggested we take the extra step of doing the nectar stuff as well so she went into the nectar app every week and added all of the available personalised offers, after taking those additional nectar points into account the average weekly shop would yield an average of 440 nectar points, worth £2.20 making the average weekly basket cost an equivalent of £97.08.
We saved an average of 11% off our weekly shop sticker price basically by just using the Sainsbury's smart shop app and nectar app, again with no effort made to actually take advantage of these offers by substituting products when they have a personalised discount or loyalty discount applied. If we multiplied our monthly saving by 12 to get the annualised rate it's £600 per year and I'm sure if we planned the shop in advance based on the offers available or just switched products based on what's in store that number would go up a bit.
Overall - it was piss easy to do a once a week login to an app to apply personalised offers and using the shopping app in store rather than going to the till or using the hand scanner. Anyone not doing these things is missing potentially an 11% discount from their weekly shop.
Now that we've fallen into the habit I'm pretty sure we're going to keep it going, there's no real downside.
Or you could just go to Lidl or Aldi where the price is the price and save all that time wasted on book keeping. Marketing pricing scams just so you dont get ripped off are one of the more unpleasant features of shopping .
Nope, Lidl use the same loyalty pricing schemes and Aldi are introducing one before Xmas.
Capacity 132,000 crowd to watch India v Pakistan in the Narendra Modi Stadium in Ahmedabad. Umpire/officials are mostly from England, (also South Africa and Zimbabwe).
Rory Stewart has been labeling Rishi Sunak as a right wing populist. I'm still waiting for Wembley/Lords to be renamed the Rishi Sunak stadium. I think it is probably quite difficult to govern in a democracy without any populist element. Thatcher? Yes. Blair? Yes. Cameron? Yes. Johnson was probably the closest we have got to a true one. But Sunak? Come on! He's in the former category of leaders who might have played for the odd headline but hardly governed as a raging populist.
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Its another irregular verb:
I listen to the people You play to the gallery He is a populist
People who loudly decry 'populism' would seem to prefer a system where 'people like them' don't get a vote and decisions are take by 'people like me'.
It is a bit of a rubbish word as there are several slightly different meanings plus it also gets conflated with popularity.
I, softly but persistently, decry the type of politics that puts one group against another scapegoat group in search of cheap votes. Call it what you will.
That's an inevitable consequence of politicians making promises they cannot keep and wealth consumption rising at a faster pace than wealth creation.
So to keep one group satisfied another group must lose out.
And its easier to take from a group if they've first been demonised.
The degree to which it happens varies between political parties and individual politicians within them. So the extent to which it happens and the extent of the damage it causes to the social fabric is not inevitable, even if one accepts your cynical worldview.
Sunak could replace Braverman with someone else and reduce the damage but he sticks to her as he is frit and weak.
I think it was a mistake to let Braverman into government but now she's there its difficult to get rid of her.
Been doing a bookkeeping exercise while watching the cricket this morning, we had a discussion last month about whether or not the ONS should include till level discounts in their measure of CPI (I think they should, other people say they shouldn't) so I decided to track a month of receipts and till/app discounts only available to people who shop with loyalty card discounts.
I spent the month shopping absolutely as normal and made no effort to change what I buy based on the discounts available, so items I got discounted was coincidental.
On average the full price shop per week for my household (we shop in Sainsbury's) was £108.67, after loyalty discounts that average fell to £101.54 and after personalised discounts it fell to the actual average of £99.28. My wife suggested we take the extra step of doing the nectar stuff as well so she went into the nectar app every week and added all of the available personalised offers, after taking those additional nectar points into account the average weekly shop would yield an average of 440 nectar points, worth £2.20 making the average weekly basket cost an equivalent of £97.08.
We saved an average of 11% off our weekly shop sticker price basically by just using the Sainsbury's smart shop app and nectar app, again with no effort made to actually take advantage of these offers by substituting products when they have a personalised discount or loyalty discount applied. If we multiplied our monthly saving by 12 to get the annualised rate it's £600 per year and I'm sure if we planned the shop in advance based on the offers available or just switched products based on what's in store that number would go up a bit.
Overall - it was piss easy to do a once a week login to an app to apply personalised offers and using the shopping app in store rather than going to the till or using the hand scanner. Anyone not doing these things is missing potentially an 11% discount from their weekly shop.
Now that we've fallen into the habit I'm pretty sure we're going to keep it going, there's no real downside.
Life is much cheaper for those who are internet savvy, numerate and time rich. Any two from three also make a difference as well.
I don't think time rich comes into it, my wife would do the nectar stuff in the car as we were parking, or just before I left if I was going solo. We have a one year old and my wife is pregnant so it's not as though we are time rich in general. It's just two taps on her phone to load the app and then tap "add all personalised offers". If anything the smart shop app saves us a lot of time because we can just walk out of the shop after paying at the self service tills rather than queuing at the manned tills.
Since the horrific attack by Hamas on innocent Israeli civilians last weekend, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has expressed unambiguous support for Israel regardless, apparently, of how it chooses to respond.
The Israeli flag was projected on her headquarters, the Berlaymont, in the wake of the attacks and was hoisted alongside that of the European Union, and she invited the Israeli ambassador to the EU to join the weekly meeting of European commissioners on Wednesday.
In public posts she declared that the European Union stands with Israel “today and in the days to come” and “in the next weeks”, an apparent signal not just of the bloc’s sympathy over the attacks but also its sanction for Israel’s retaliation.
Her approach has caused deepening unease within European institutions and in national capitals as Israel undertakes what the Taoiseach has described as “collective punishment” against the people of Gaza, cutting off water, food and electricity, and now ordering over a million people to evacuate in 24 hours to the alarm of the United Nations.
It seems like only yesterday that UvdL & the EU condemned attacks on critical infrastructure but in fact it was last Tuesday (in connection with the Finland/Estonia pipeline).
National have slipped back to just under 40% and 50 seats, Labour on 26.5% and 34 seats. Greens have 13, ACT 12, NZ First 8 and Maori 4 so that gives National-ACT 62 seats in the 121 seat Parliament with all other parties on 59.
Labour leader Chris Hipkins has in the past hour conceded defeat to National leader Christopher Luxon but the evidence shows it's been less a vote for National as a vote against Labour.
However, worth noting National seem to be doing very well in a number of previously safe Labour seats and the seat totals may well change as we get the seats counted.
Interestingly it looks like while outer suburbs and rural areas in Australia have overwhelmingly rejected the Voice, most inner city areas have backed it. Even wealthy areas like Wentworth which has an Independent and used to be strong Liberal. Similar demographics to Brexit
That's the trend in every Western democracy. Rich people in big cities have now realized they're socialists. Working class voters in towns and rural districts have realised they're conservatives.
Comments
The rest of the world will continue to think “Australia, crocodile Dundee, kangaroos, boomerangs and throwing shrimps on the barbie”.
The latter is just as well, nobody in Australia drinks that pisswater.
And then as voters pay attention they realised it was a terrible idea badly executed - essentially it was setting up a pathway whereby a minority community had an effective veto over decisions
That’s not democratic
Aus won't have turned villain overnight I expect.
If anything has damaged Australia's image this week it has been the sight of a large crowd outside Sydney Opera House chanting “gas the Jews! Gas the Jews!”
Absolutely fucking hideous
If I were Australian, THAT would make me ashamed
Since the horrific attack by Hamas on innocent Israeli civilians last weekend, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen has expressed unambiguous support for Israel regardless, apparently, of how it chooses to respond.
The Israeli flag was projected on her headquarters, the Berlaymont, in the wake of the attacks and was hoisted alongside that of the European Union, and she invited the Israeli ambassador to the EU to join the weekly meeting of European commissioners on Wednesday.
In public posts she declared that the European Union stands with Israel “today and in the days to come” and “in the next weeks”, an apparent signal not just of the bloc’s sympathy over the attacks but also its sanction for Israel’s retaliation.
Her approach has caused deepening unease within European institutions and in national capitals as Israel undertakes what the Taoiseach has described as “collective punishment” against the people of Gaza, cutting off water, food and electricity, and now ordering over a million people to evacuate in 24 hours to the alarm of the United Nations.
https://www.irishtimes.com/world/middle-east/2023/10/13/as-von-der-leyen-visits-israel-is-the-commission-overstretching-its-powers/
https://x.com/yisraelchaiadam/status/1712949053170860282?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
I mean, it is beyond despicable. Makes the blood run cold. WTAF
When it comes to "inclusion" then David Baddiel's book is completely accurate: Jews don't count.
The Voice was giving special representation to a segment of society. That’s not equal treatment.
I’m guessing the pro-Israel protesters in Tehran this week have just been monitored by the Iranian police but allowed their free speech. What’s that you say? Nobody would dare?
The sad thing is that the pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel protesters don’t acknowledge they are lucky they live in a free society. The female protesters can turn up at the protest in London or Sydney without a chaperone. Kiss some guy they meet in the excitement of protest without being flogged for adultery. Queers for Palestine can chant away ignoring the fact that if the Palestinians would be given Israel they aren’t going to be going on holiday and welcomed and lauded as they walk along with their partner hand in hand along the beach in Eilat, they will be thinking they might have made the wrong call as they take their last breaths dangling from a crane for being “queer”.
Perhaps those that want a “free Palestine” should start from the point of saying “we will support a free Palestine when the Palestinians reject the bigotry and medieval attitudes and confirm that if they get a ‘free Palestine’ with our support they will be a free and liberal society.” But they won’t.
A peoples vote perhaps so they can vote the right way ?
Interesting - I have several printers, including a colour A3 duplex effort that can deal with all the output in an Estate Agents' office, and one that will do commercial quality Giclee at A1 size. Buying new inks for that is an experience, which cost about £500 just for compatibles not originals.
My suggestion would be a low end monchrome A4 laser duplex, which will cost perhaps £100-150 and last a decade. I have a Samsung Xpress M2835DW bought in 2017, which is still going strong. Samsung printers are now part of HP since 2016.
My comment on the HP is that I wouldn't get a multifunction device. If I want to "scan" I put it on a well lit surface and take a photograph, which does about 95%+ of requirements OK.
There are some senior judges and other pillars of the establishment who don't come out of it too well.
We'll see. At present the case for multiple charges of perjury and perverting the course of justice looks overwhelming.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12609719/Moment-courageous-Iranian-football-fans-tell-pro-Palestine-supporters-flag-shove-attempt-regime-backers-rally-Hamas-football-match.html
But - I don't know what happened to the members of that crowd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o59PTrjiyjs
I'd be interested to know what Stewart thinks of Cameron and Johnson, or whether as Old Etonians they get a fairer assessment.
Has this type of arrest been made before for a terrorist-organisation supporter waving a flag? Which law is such an arrest made under?
Unlikely perhaps to be Hamas going back some way, as Hamas were proscribed in 2 stages - the military side in 2001, and the rest of it in 2021, when it was assessed that the military / political distinction was artificial.
I put that split down to Foreign Office confused thinking, which would allow a potential excuse that "but .. but ... but I only support the political side".
Sounds like Hipkins will quit but he's not getting blamed.
I doubt Cameron would have stood for that. Stewart would be far more scathing of Johnson, rightly so.
With Qld and WA to come I reckon my prediction of 58/42 NO will be close to the mark
ON the header (thanks, Mike), does anyone have any thoughts on why Lisa Cameron defected to the Conservatives, and not to Labour?
Looking at the results from the last Election, where Lab + Tories were about equal on 12k votes, and the SNP were on 26k, she appears to be leaping onto an already half-sunk ship. Why?
Will she have much of a personal vote, having been an MP for a few years there?
Rishi is foolishly aping populism, it’s just that he’s very, very bad at it.
With 35% in No 56% and Yes 43. No ahead by over 60% in Queensland and South Australia, over 55% in Tasmania and NSW and over 50% in Victoria. So far only ACT which contains Canberra has voted Yes. Looks like at least as big a win for No as the 1999 monarchy referendum and 2014 Scottish referendum and even bigger than Brexit.
https://www.abc.net.au/news
Also looks like a good morning for King Charles III. If Labor PM Albanese had won this Voice for Aborigines referendum he would have then started to press for a republic referendum. However Yes having been trounced he won't risk it and Albanese will now have to put it on the backburner and find some constitutional settlement for Aborigines that most Australians will accept.
In NZ meanwhile it also looks like the republican Labor government and republican Labor PM Hipkins has been defeated too and the conservative Nationals will return to power and the monarchist Winston Peters could well have the balance of power
Thank-you for your local-knowledge reply at 4:37am, @JosiasJessop .
I know St Ives well - family friends who rented the other half of my parents' first house in 196x moved down by St Ives Church in the 1970s, and the lady from the couple still lives in the same house in her late 80s. We used to go out canoeing together when I was in my early teens
I listen to the people
You play to the gallery
He is a populist
People who loudly decry 'populism' would seem to prefer a system where 'people like them' don't get a vote and decisions are take by 'people like me'.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fZFavY3PLf4
https://www.reddit.com/r/TNG/comments/ssxdq6/i_find_it_absolutely_hilarious_that_the_solution/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKgaw1JaJOw
there are strong echoes of the 2011 AV referendum in this country.
I, softly but persistently, decry the type of politics that puts one group against another scapegoat group in search of cheap votes. Call it what you will.
The funny thing is that she is seriously unpopular with the electorate.
That said, there still needs to be some means to better consult Aborigines, they being the original peoples' of Australia after all
Update 13th October: A section of this article outlining the debate over Australia's Voice to Parliament proposal has been amended to more precisely summarise the points at issue.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-67076216
This was what was removed:
https://x.com/s8mb/status/1712562983979696479?s=20
So to keep one group satisfied another group must lose out.
And its easier to take from a group if they've first been demonised.
"Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:
'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.
And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.
I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"
Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH
The Guardian is now reaching out to Australian readers who might be suicidal
"It is a tough night for a lot of our readers. A reminder –you are not alone. And if you need to speak to someone, please do so;
13YARN (13 92 76)
Lifeline 13 11 14"
https://conservativehome.com/2023/09/29/our-cabinet-league-table-as-the-tory-conference-looms-and-in-the-wake-of-his-net-zero-speech-sunaks-position-rises/
Looks quite a reach for YES from there
Chris Curtis
@chriscurtis94
It may be supprising that "No" won the Voice referendum, until you learn that Crosby Textor were working for the "Yes" campaign.
It's common to seek to blame the voters but try to pretend you are not by blaming the people who convinced the voters (in this case poisoning them), but that statement does earlier on blame the voters directly (which is indeed admirably direct), so not sure why the other stuff.
I’d be interested to see the demographic breakdown of the respective votes. Australia, in part, is quite multi racial.
What a stupid referendum to call. Now Australia is worse than it was, and the divisions are nastier
THAT is what Albanese should get the blame for. Not losing a democratic vote. Calling it in the first place
I spent the month shopping absolutely as normal and made no effort to change what I buy based on the discounts available, so items I got discounted was coincidental.
On average the full price shop per week for my household (we shop in Sainsbury's) was £108.67, after loyalty discounts that average fell to £101.54 and after personalised discounts it fell to the actual average of £99.28. My wife suggested we take the extra step of doing the nectar stuff as well so she went into the nectar app every week and added all of the available personalised offers, after taking those additional nectar points into account the average weekly shop would yield an average of 440 nectar points, worth £2.20 making the average weekly basket cost an equivalent of £97.08.
We saved an average of 11% off our weekly shop sticker price basically by just using the Sainsbury's smart shop app and nectar app, again with no effort made to actually take advantage of these offers by substituting products when they have a personalised discount or loyalty discount applied. If we multiplied our monthly saving by 12 to get the annualised rate it's £600 per year and I'm sure if we planned the shop in advance based on the offers available or just switched products based on what's in store that number would go up a bit.
Overall - it was piss easy to do a once a week login to an app to apply personalised offers and using the shopping app in store rather than going to the till or using the hand scanner. Anyone not doing these things is missing potentially an 11% discount from their weekly shop.
Now that we've fallen into the habit I'm pretty sure we're going to keep it going, there's no real downside.
Sunak could replace Braverman with someone else and reduce the damage but he sticks to her as he is frit and weak.
No, I didn't rewrite the whole thing, I was just more precisely summarising it.
It's like when a party loses an election massively and goes "The voters did not like what we stood for and voted for the complete opposite. What the voters clearly want is for us to double down on what we stood for, they are crying out for it".
Everyone else voted NO
National have slipped back to just under 40% and 50 seats, Labour on 26.5% and 34 seats. Greens have 13, ACT 12, NZ First 8 and Maori 4 so that gives National-ACT 62 seats in the 121 seat Parliament with all other parties on 59.
Labour leader Chris Hipkins has in the past hour conceded defeat to National leader Christopher Luxon but the evidence shows it's been less a vote for National as a vote against Labour.
However, worth noting National seem to be doing very well in a number of previously safe Labour seats and the seat totals may well change as we get the seats counted.