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East Kilbride SNP MP defects to the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    If only there were any examples from the last few years of this kind of attitude going down like a cup of cold sick with swing voters.
  • Ok pleased to report that possibly taking its cue from New Zealand, my BT Hub has now gone blue :smiley: after turning it off and on a few times, might have been a loose connection, so now catching up on the YouTube results coverage, fingers crossed it will stay ok now.
  • The Herald added to the list of vile abusers no doubt. Cameron’s about turn on the road to Damascus seems so violent she must have whiplash.



    https://x.com/heraldscotland/status/1713110140671438954?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited October 2023
    I've done my best to understand the referendum in Australia and don't have a clue tbh.

    My only observation is that Aussies have very little time for drug users, homeless, aboriginals etc, and are overtly more racist than your average Brit. Small sample size, almost entirely men, industrial setting.

    Even then, they are obviously embarrassed at how the Kiwis have largely nailed it with the Maoris, while the Aboriginal experience is so grim. So while No will win, the issue won't go away.

    (My girlfriend's experience is "UK junkies are much more chill. Thank God we don't have ice" (crystal meth). She has to acknowledge the land on which the hospital stands on in every meeting)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    It's "just one poll".....

    Today’s Savanta poll is a doomsday scenario for the SNP, not only would Labour sweep the central belt, but the Tories would retain their seats too.

    @ElectCalculus model on new boundaries:

    LAB 28 (+27)
    SNP 19 (-29)
    CON 6 (NC)
    LDM 4 (NC)


    https://x.com/AFK103/status/1713104130267599185?s=20

    A 21pt lead for the SNP last June in @Savanta_UK’s polling for
    @TheScotsman has now completely eroded.

    The decline started well before Sturgeon’s resignation/Yousaf’s election, but has seemingly accelerated since.


    https://x.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1713111707021607357?s=20

    Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories.....

    The Tories might even pick up a seat or two from the SNP, if these numbers hold to the next election.



    I am not sure that is the 29 that Yousless had in mind...

    And I agree, it could well get worse if the Tory vote falls only slightly whilst the SNP vote collapses.
    The problem for the SNP is not that all Scots have abandoned a desire for Indy - polls show they haven’t - it’s that a lot of Scots have either decided Indy is a distant aspiration or it cannot be delivered. So they are beginning to vote on different issues

    That’s never going to be great for the Nats given their “sketchy” record in government and their inevitable decay in office
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Kuldeep, what a bowler. I find it almost impossible to see past India for the CWC. Tremendous batsmen and a frightening and varied bowling attack, playing at home. Just can't see anyone else getting close.

    Bumrah not too bad either. Collapse from the visitors in the last few overs.
    Pakistan unravelling faster than a policy idea from Sam Freedman.
    And another. Pakistan will struggle to bat 45 overs at this rate or make 250 which is not going to be nearly enough.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    JPJ2 said:

    Carlotta Vance says,

    "Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories"

    Perhaps you are making a logical error here. I have seen this argument advanced elsewhere, but my point is that Cameron has had to leave the SNP precisely because they are NOT Tories, so that she can pursue Tory policies.

    Labour supporters do not have to leave Labour to support Tory policies but can rely on Starmer who has declared his party to be the real Tories.

    You make a perhaps a temporarily useful propaganda point, but one with little traction.

    Since so much of the Sturgeon legacy was built on "hating the Toreeees" and "not getting a government in Westminster we voted for" I suspect many Scots will "get a government they voted for" at the next GE - by voting Labour - and may also calculate that installing a cooperative Labour administration in Holyrood may be a better option that returning a demonstrably incompetent grievance mongering Trans obsessed SNP one.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    And another.

    It's now unravelling faster than a Cummings press statement.

    One more, and it will be unravelling faster than a Sunak transport policy!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,404

    HYUFD said:

    This Australian referendum result will also have implications for UK politics given the close parallels between Australian and UK politics recently.

    At the Australian general election last year Australians elected a Labor government and threw out the governing conservative Liberal-National government on a big swing. The conservative opposition in turn elected the hard right Peter Dutton as their leader, who was even more rightwing than the conservative PM who had been defeated.

    Up to now Labor PM Albanese has had a clear poll lead, albeit narrowed a bit in recent polls. However Dutton's decision to oppose Albanese's Voice referendum on a hard anti woke agenda seems to have been rewarded with this result.

    UK Tories will also take note, expect the Conservatives to go even harder right and anti woke in opposition if as is likely Sunak loses the next general election and Starmer becomes Labour PM

    Are there implications? The UK doesn’t have an indigenous oppressed population, so there’s no direct parallel to this referendum. Also, most parties in the UK have learnt their lesson and never want to have another referendum on anything again. Starmer is not going to hold a referendum on anything (unless absolutely forced to by the Scottish nationalists, but polling suggests that’s not going to happen either).
    arent the welsh whats left of the original brits

    we can hand London over to Mark Drakeford
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited October 2023

    HYUFD said:

    This Australian referendum result will also have implications for UK politics given the close parallels between Australian and UK politics recently.

    At the Australian general election last year Australians elected a Labor government and threw out the governing conservative Liberal-National government on a big swing. The conservative opposition in turn elected the hard right Peter Dutton as their leader, who was even more rightwing than the conservative PM who had been defeated.

    Up to now Labor PM Albanese has had a clear poll lead, albeit narrowed a bit in recent polls. However Dutton's decision to oppose Albanese's Voice referendum on a hard anti woke agenda seems to have been rewarded with this result.

    UK Tories will also take note, expect the Conservatives to go even harder right and anti woke in opposition if as is likely Sunak loses the next general election and Starmer becomes Labour PM

    Are there implications? The UK doesn’t have an indigenous oppressed population, so there’s no direct parallel to this referendum. Also, most parties in the UK have learnt their lesson and never want to have another referendum on anything again. Starmer is not going to hold a referendum on anything (unless absolutely forced to by the Scottish nationalists, but polling suggests that’s not going to happen either).
    arent the welsh whats left of the original brits

    we can hand London over to Mark Drakeford
    Speaking as a Welshman, please don't.

    Not that I like London, but it hasn't done anything to deserve that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    How are they all going to react if Trump gets elected again?
    Oh, that would be so funny I almost.....no, of course not.
  • Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    It seems that the electorate have told the YES campaign to be silent.

    When was the last time a government called a referendum only to be defeated so overwhelmingly ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited October 2023
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    This Australian referendum result will also have implications for UK politics given the close parallels between Australian and UK politics recently.

    At the Australian general election last year Australians elected a Labor government and threw out the governing conservative Liberal-National government on a big swing. The conservative opposition in turn elected the hard right Peter Dutton as their leader, who was even more rightwing than the conservative PM who had been defeated.

    Up to now Labor PM Albanese has had a clear poll lead, albeit narrowed a bit in recent polls. However Dutton's decision to oppose Albanese's Voice referendum on a hard anti woke agenda seems to have been rewarded with this result.

    UK Tories will also take note, expect the Conservatives to go even harder right and anti woke in opposition if as is likely Sunak loses the next general election and Starmer becomes Labour PM

    Are there implications? The UK doesn’t have an indigenous oppressed population, so there’s no direct parallel to this referendum. Also, most parties in the UK have learnt their lesson and never want to have another referendum on anything again. Starmer is not going to hold a referendum on anything (unless absolutely forced to by the Scottish nationalists, but polling suggests that’s not going to happen either).
    arent the welsh whats left of the original brits

    we can hand London over to Mark Drakeford
    Speaking as a Welshman, please don't.

    Not that I like London, but it hasn't done anything to deserve that.
    The Welsh end up with Sadiq Khan, just to show that Drakeford was’t too authoritatian with his transport policy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    The Yes people not taking it well (Guardian)


    "Over on SBS, Professor Marcia Langton had some very straight talk:

    'It’s very clear that reconciliation is dead. A majority of Australians have said no to an invitation from Indigenous Australia, with a minimal proposition, to give us a bare say in matters that affect our lives, advice that doesn’t need to be taken by the Parliament.

    And a proposition that the vast majority of retired High Court judges and constitutional experts affirmed as being constitutionally safe, sound, and moreover, elegant and practical.

    I think the No campaigners have a lot to answer for in poisoning Australia against this proposition and against Indigenous Australia.'"

    Translation: Australians are horrible racist scum, UGH

    Since the No campaign included leading indigenous voices, that doesn't quite follow.

    The wrong kind of indigenous I guess.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    In the end food is not that expensive. You can cook yourself a meal for less than £1. An issue for really poor people is getting to a supermarket. In the town I live in many of them shop at the co-op which is notoriously expensive rather than walking up to Lidl or Asda (about 20 minute walk in each case). Getting to the foodbank involves a 5 mile journey to the ring road which would be a £4 roundtrip on the bus.

    Whenever someone like Lee Anderson points out that the problem can be solved by lessons in home economics there is a massive uproar but he is just saying what a lot of people believe. A lot could be gained by giving people more skills.
  • Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Been doing a bookkeeping exercise while watching the cricket this morning, we had a discussion last month about whether or not the ONS should include till level discounts in their measure of CPI (I think they should, other people say they shouldn't) so I decided to track a month of receipts and till/app discounts only available to people who shop with loyalty card discounts.

    I spent the month shopping absolutely as normal and made no effort to change what I buy based on the discounts available, so items I got discounted was coincidental.

    On average the full price shop per week for my household (we shop in Sainsbury's) was £108.67, after loyalty discounts that average fell to £101.54 and after personalised discounts it fell to the actual average of £99.28. My wife suggested we take the extra step of doing the nectar stuff as well so she went into the nectar app every week and added all of the available personalised offers, after taking those additional nectar points into account the average weekly shop would yield an average of 440 nectar points, worth £2.20 making the average weekly basket cost an equivalent of £97.08.

    We saved an average of 11% off our weekly shop sticker price basically by just using the Sainsbury's smart shop app and nectar app, again with no effort made to actually take advantage of these offers by substituting products when they have a personalised discount or loyalty discount applied. If we multiplied our monthly saving by 12 to get the annualised rate it's £600 per year and I'm sure if we planned the shop in advance based on the offers available or just switched products based on what's in store that number would go up a bit.

    Overall - it was piss easy to do a once a week login to an app to apply personalised offers and using the shopping app in store rather than going to the till or using the hand scanner. Anyone not doing these things is missing potentially an 11% discount from their weekly shop.

    Now that we've fallen into the habit I'm pretty sure we're going to keep it going, there's no real downside.

    Interesting. The number I would use is the full £108.67, on the basis that the people right at the bottom of the pile, for whom food is a considerable part of their expenditure and who lead relatively chaotic lives, wouldn’t know what a spreadsheet was, and might not always shop at the same shop.

    IMHO supermarket pricing, especially of offers and loyalty card discounts, and of different prices in different areas and stores, all aggressively driven by data mining of their customers, should be investigated by the Office of Fair Trading, or whatever they call themselves these days.
    It's turning into similar dynamic to broadband/energy/insurance, isn't it? High profile offers to lure you in, then gentle frog boiling on the price, hoping that enough people won't notice or will conclude that changing is too much hassle. It's presumably rational on a local scale, but I'm not convinced it's a good thing overall. Partly because those at the bottom are more likely to get screwed by this, but also the value of the time it takes to keep track.

    But a free market, honestly understood, has never had a fair price. It's always been sellers selling for the most they can get away with and buyers paying the least possible. And if we're lucky, there's an overlap and wonderful things happen. But sometimes it leads to silly dead ends, in the same way that evolution leads to peacocks' tails.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    It seems that the electorate have told the YES campaign to be silent.

    When was the last time a government called a referendum only to be defeated so overwhelmingly ?
    Err....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited October 2023

    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote

    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    It seems that the electorate have told the YES campaign to be silent.

    When was the last time a government called a referendum only to be defeated so overwhelmingly ?
    5th May 2011?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    It's "just one poll".....

    Today’s Savanta poll is a doomsday scenario for the SNP, not only would Labour sweep the central belt, but the Tories would retain their seats too.

    @ElectCalculus model on new boundaries:

    LAB 28 (+27)
    SNP 19 (-29)
    CON 6 (NC)
    LDM 4 (NC)


    https://x.com/AFK103/status/1713104130267599185?s=20

    A 21pt lead for the SNP last June in @Savanta_UK’s polling for
    @TheScotsman has now completely eroded.

    The decline started well before Sturgeon’s resignation/Yousaf’s election, but has seemingly accelerated since.


    https://x.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1713111707021607357?s=20

    Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories.....

    Important betting point.
    A result anywhere near that severely erodes the Tories GB vote efficiency advantage.
    It would chop several percentage points off the nationwide Labour lead needed to win an overall majority at Westminster.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    …..
  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    Well here is my plausible suggestion for the next two significant elections in Scotland.

    UK General election: SNP lose a pile of seats, even in the extreme are completely wiped out as vast swathes vote Labour to make sure the Tories are thrown out of Westminster.

    Holyrood 2026: SNP and Greens retain a comfortable majority in Holyrood, even in the extreme gain an overall majority of votes as the population favours independence.

    Historic indication that this might happen? UK General Election 2010 SNP 6 seats
    Holyrood election 2011. SNP win an absolute majority of seats.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Eabhal said:

    I've done my best to understand the referendum in Australia and don't have a clue tbh.

    TLDR - they're going to have King William V as head of state
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083



    Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories.....

    4 dimensional chess going on from Dr Cameron I see. Keir was probably behind it the whole time.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    How are they all going to react if Trump gets elected again?
    What the Aboriginal Land Council? Same as most people, I'd have thought. Trump horror transcends national and ethnic boundaries.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479
  • Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote

    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    It seems that the electorate have told the YES campaign to be silent.

    When was the last time a government called a referendum only to be defeated so overwhelmingly ?
    5th May 2011?
    The AV referendum ?

    A big win for PM Cameron and the governing Conservative party.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    JPJ2 said:

    UK General Election 2010 SNP 6 seats
    Holyrood election 2011. SNP win an absolute majority of seats.

    Against a Tory/LibDem coalition in Westminster.

    How did they do in Holyrood last time there was a Labour government in Westminster?

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    dixiedean said:

    It's "just one poll".....

    Today’s Savanta poll is a doomsday scenario for the SNP, not only would Labour sweep the central belt, but the Tories would retain their seats too.

    @ElectCalculus model on new boundaries:

    LAB 28 (+27)
    SNP 19 (-29)
    CON 6 (NC)
    LDM 4 (NC)


    https://x.com/AFK103/status/1713104130267599185?s=20

    A 21pt lead for the SNP last June in @Savanta_UK’s polling for
    @TheScotsman has now completely eroded.

    The decline started well before Sturgeon’s resignation/Yousaf’s election, but has seemingly accelerated since.


    https://x.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1713111707021607357?s=20

    Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories.....

    Important betting point.
    A result anywhere near that severely erodes the Tories GB vote efficiency advantage.
    It would chop several percentage points off the nationwide Labour lead needed to win an overall majority at Westminster.
    A point I have made repeatedly. FPTP greatly favoured Labour when they were picking up 40 odd Scottish seats with 40 % of the vote. Rather less when 30% was getting 1. Those days may well return. Its why I now think SKS will get his majority, even although I agree with Mike that the current leads really reflects Tories who currently "don't know".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    The Herald added to the list of vile abusers no doubt. Cameron’s about turn on the road to Damascus seems so violent she must have whiplash.



    https://x.com/heraldscotland/status/1713110140671438954?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Tories in power = good for the Sindy cause, so she's bostering the former to advance the latter?
  • Leon said:

    On the important question of the moment

    Tesco delivery for weekly basics. M&S in person for nice food day by day

    Not your friendly neighborhood butcher/cheesemonger etc? What kind of metropolitan elitist are you?

    (Our localest butcher has now definitively closed. Unfortunately, the children have taken against the now localest because of the statue of a jolly butcher with a massive meat cleaver who stands outside.)

    What's the panel's view of veg boxes? Useful way of ensuring variety and seasonality, or woke nonsense?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    dixiedean said:

    It's "just one poll".....

    Today’s Savanta poll is a doomsday scenario for the SNP, not only would Labour sweep the central belt, but the Tories would retain their seats too.

    @ElectCalculus model on new boundaries:

    LAB 28 (+27)
    SNP 19 (-29)
    CON 6 (NC)
    LDM 4 (NC)


    https://x.com/AFK103/status/1713104130267599185?s=20

    A 21pt lead for the SNP last June in @Savanta_UK’s polling for
    @TheScotsman has now completely eroded.

    The decline started well before Sturgeon’s resignation/Yousaf’s election, but has seemingly accelerated since.


    https://x.com/ChrisHopkins92/status/1713111707021607357?s=20

    Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories.....

    Important betting point.
    A result anywhere near that severely erodes the Tories GB vote efficiency advantage.
    It would chop several percentage points off the nationwide Labour lead needed to win an overall majority at Westminster.
    If the SNP implodes, the chances of a Labour majority - not just biggest party - increase substantially.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Leon said:

    On the important question of the moment

    Tesco delivery for weekly basics. M&S in person for nice food day by day

    Not your friendly neighborhood butcher/cheesemonger etc? What kind of metropolitan elitist are you?

    (Our localest butcher has now definitively closed. Unfortunately, the children have taken against the now localest because of the statue of a jolly butcher with a massive meat cleaver who stands outside.)

    What's the panel's view of veg boxes? Useful way of ensuring variety and seasonality, or woke nonsense?
    Too much celeriac.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Kuldeep, then Bumrah and now Jadeja. No one else has an attack like this, not even NZ.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited October 2023

    HYUFD said:

    This Australian referendum result will also have implications for UK politics given the close parallels between Australian and UK politics recently.

    At the Australian general election last year Australians elected a Labor government and threw out the governing conservative Liberal-National government on a big swing. The conservative opposition in turn elected the hard right Peter Dutton as their leader, who was even more rightwing than the conservative PM who had been defeated.

    Up to now Labor PM Albanese has had a clear poll lead, albeit narrowed a bit in recent polls. However Dutton's decision to oppose Albanese's Voice referendum on a hard anti woke agenda seems to have been rewarded with this result.

    UK Tories will also take note, expect the Conservatives to go even harder right and anti woke in opposition if as is likely Sunak loses the next general election and Starmer becomes Labour PM

    Are there implications? The UK doesn’t have an indigenous oppressed population, so there’s no direct parallel to this referendum. Also, most parties in the UK have learnt their lesson and never want to have another referendum on anything again. Starmer is not going to hold a referendum on anything (unless absolutely forced to by the Scottish nationalists, but polling suggests that’s not going to happen either).
    I think the suggestion is that this result gives support to those who feel 'antiwoke' is a rich seam for the mining. Not so much with specific policies but more as a 'mood' to be tapped into with high bp rhetoric and a culture war style framing of issues and opponents.
  • darkage said:

    In the end food is not that expensive. You can cook yourself a meal for less than £1. An issue for really poor people is getting to a supermarket. In the town I live in many of them shop at the co-op which is notoriously expensive rather than walking up to Lidl or Asda (about 20 minute walk in each case). Getting to the foodbank involves a 5 mile journey to the ring road which would be a £4 roundtrip on the bus.

    Whenever someone like Lee Anderson points out that the problem can be solved by lessons in home economics there is a massive uproar but he is just saying what a lot of people believe. A lot could be gained by giving people more skills.

    As Frank Carson might have said, it is the way he tells them. I am absolutely in favour of teaching people more about food, money, and exercise, if necessary ahead of academic subjects but equally turned off by Anderson.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    Given the initial support for the idea throwing toys out the pram in response seems counterproductive - clearly people liked the sound of it, but then felt the specifics were not the right idea, so you could pivot and say you understand the concerns but the fight will go on as people accept the status quo is not working.

    Instead, they could put off such attempts by looking spiteful.
  • JPJ2 said:

    Forgot to point out, when writing about Lisa Cameron, that in terms of politically motivated threats (which I condemn), and which is always blamed on the SNP/independence supporters by unionists, as is so often the case, the real World experience indicates they are more sinned against than sinning
    e.g. William Curtis jailed for over 5 years for online threats to Nicola Sturgeon.

    The only significant actual physical violence being provided (there were successful prosecutions) was by unionists against nationalists in George Square after the 2014 referendum.

    A tiny minority that in no way represents proud yet tolerant British patriotism.

    Is the usual bullshit reply.

    The joyous and civil lads will doubtless enjoy the numerous joyous and civic replies to tweets by or involving Humza over the last few days
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Looks like NZ election might be similar to what could happen here.

    NZ: government very unpopular, no real enthusiasm for opposition, who only just get over the line.

    Here: government very unpopular, no real enthusiasm for LAB, who only just get over the line. Albeit LAB should be able to make it on its own with the bonus of SNP meltdown.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829

    Leon said:

    On the important question of the moment

    Tesco delivery for weekly basics. M&S in person for nice food day by day

    Not your friendly neighborhood butcher/cheesemonger etc? What kind of metropolitan elitist are you?

    (Our localest butcher has now definitively closed. Unfortunately, the children have taken against the now localest because of the statue of a jolly butcher with a massive meat cleaver who stands outside.)

    What's the panel's view of veg boxes? Useful way of ensuring variety and seasonality, or woke nonsense?
    We used them from the community food store during lockdown (when there was no other option) and after. Rather generous on the celeriac but we use it for soups and for cooking in stews and with pheasant etc.

    Another possible issue is quality control. Have moved to slef-selection now as the management changed and the quality became more variable and the veg box selector wasn't being careful enough re old items.

    Worth trying out, but be prepared to move back.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited October 2023
    1/ Yesterday, @StewartMcDonald said this on @TheScotsman’s Steamie podcast:

    “We know that the public believe a mandate exists, as per polling. In the paper I produced in February… two thirds of the public believe there is a mandate for an independence referendum.”

    2/ So… I went back to his paper to find out if that was true. This is the polling cited in @StewartMcDonald’s paper. What it actually said was that (in Nov/Dec 2022) 69% of the public believed there should be another independence referendum *some day*.

    3/ This is clearly not the same thing as two thirds of the public believing this Scottish Government has a mandate for a referendum.

    @StewartMcDonald is supposed to be the SNP’s cool-headed realist. If even he is kidding himself, the party truly is disconnected from reality.




    https://x.com/staylorish/status/1713150397865464166?s=20
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    Given the initial support for the idea throwing toys out the pram in response seems counterproductive - clearly people liked the sound of it, but then felt the specifics were not the right idea, so you could pivot and say you understand the concerns but the fight will go on as people accept the status quo is not working.

    Instead, they could put off such attempts by looking spiteful.
    I think its one of those ideas that seems entirely reasonable and fair in principle but turns into a bit of nightmare when you get to the practicalities as were discussed during the campaign. Something like Scottish independence really.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    edited October 2023
    I've done off topic; can I ask an on-topic question.

    Is there a Lords' equivalent of the Private Members Bill procedure, that let's individual members of the HoL introduce legislation?

    Can anyonie quote me any examples of measures introduced by this route?

    Update: just found a relevant podcast here:
    https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/house-of-lords-podcast/house-of-lords-podcast-private-members-bills/
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    JPJ2 said:

    Carlotta Vance says,

    "Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories"

    Perhaps you are making a logical error here. I have seen this argument advanced elsewhere, but my point is that Cameron has had to leave the SNP precisely because they are NOT Tories, so that she can pursue Tory policies.

    Labour supporters do not have to leave Labour to support Tory policies but can rely on Starmer who has declared his party to be the real Tories.

    You make a perhaps a temporarily useful propaganda point, but one with little traction.



    Also, if anyone is being a Tory in Scotland it's SKS. In contrast, of course, to the recent winner at Ru'glen. And much of Slab.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    Looks like NZ election might be similar to what could happen here.

    NZ: government very unpopular, no real enthusiasm for opposition, who only just get over the line.

    Here: government very unpopular, no real enthusiasm for LAB, who only just get over the line. Albeit LAB should be able to make it on its own with the bonus of SNP meltdown.

    That seems to be a worldwide pattern.
    After the re-election of almost every incumbent during the pandemic years (disguised somewhat by the ouster of DJT), it appears every opposition is easing into power on a tsunami of apathy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,709
    MattW said:

    I've done off topic; can I ask an on-topic question.

    Is there a Lords' equivalent of the Private Members Bill procedure, that let's individual members of the HoL introduce legislation?

    Can anyonie quote me any examples of measures introduced by this route?

    According to Parliament website the answer is 'yes'.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    edited October 2023
    MattW said:

    The Herald added to the list of vile abusers no doubt. Cameron’s about turn on the road to Damascus seems so violent she must have whiplash.



    https://x.com/heraldscotland/status/1713110140671438954?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    How is a segment of footage from the routine, published, broadcast record of Parliament a "leaked video"?
    It does depend if the video is actually the same one as that from which the image is taken for the twitter posting.
  • JPJ2 said:

    Well here is my plausible suggestion for the next two significant elections in Scotland.

    UK General election: SNP lose a pile of seats, even in the extreme are completely wiped out as vast swathes vote Labour to make sure the Tories are thrown out of Westminster.

    Holyrood 2026: SNP and Greens retain a comfortable majority in Holyrood, even in the extreme gain an overall majority of votes as the population favours independence.

    Historic indication that this might happen? UK General Election 2010 SNP 6 seats
    Holyrood election 2011. SNP win an absolute majority of seats.

    Still, it would be tragic if the SNP lost all the power in influence they’ve held in Westminster since achieving in 2015 one of the most sweeping electoral results in any of the constituent countries of the UK.
    MattW said:

    The Herald added to the list of vile abusers no doubt. Cameron’s about turn on the road to Damascus seems so violent she must have whiplash.



    https://x.com/heraldscotland/status/1713110140671438954?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    How is a segment of footage from the routine, published, broadcast record of Parliament a "leaked video"?
    You didn’t click on the link did you. The pic in the tweet is just that, an old HoC photo (it has Margaret Ferrier in it).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,348
    Leon said:

    Incredible. Guardian on the Aussie vote



    “Calls grow for national week of silence

    So far, the Central Land Council, Congress and the NSW Aboriginal Land Council are among the groups who have shared the statement calling for a national week of silence, given the referendum result.”

    Translator: “how dare you vote No, you racists. As a punishment for your evilness you have to shut up for a week”

    I mean, no wonder they lost

    I’m sure the result will generate a great deal of posturing anger, combined with lip-quivering anguish, on Comment is Free.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited October 2023

    Looks like NZ election might be similar to what could happen here.

    NZ: government very unpopular, no real enthusiasm for opposition, who only just get over the line.

    Here: government very unpopular, no real enthusiasm for LAB, who only just get over the line. Albeit LAB should be able to make it on its own with the bonus of SNP meltdown.

    Same with Biden's election, Scholz's election, even Albanese's election and the last Spanish election.

    Meloni's was a bit more convincing. Also note incumbents in western nations across the world have largely been defeated post Covid and with inflation higher than it was. Macron and Trudeau are the only western leaders to have been re elected after Covid, albeit Macron lost his party's majority in the legislature even if it still won most seats and Trudeau lost the popular vote and both see opposition parties ahead in polls now
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    The 1990s England Test team would be ashamed of a collapse like this from Pakistan.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited October 2023
    Wow, some trends truly are global. BBC:

    The strongest Yes vote - 73% - was in the city electorate of Melbourne, typically viewed as one of Australia's most progressive. The seat is held by the leader of the Australian Greens party, Adam Bandt.

    Also, I guess this guy can be a bit, well, him, about the result.

    Meanwhile, the strongest No vote - 84.1%- was in Maranoa, a rural electorate in country Queensland, which is the seat of Nationals leader David Littleproud.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    The Herald added to the list of vile abusers no doubt. Cameron’s about turn on the road to Damascus seems so violent she must have whiplash.



    https://x.com/heraldscotland/status/1713110140671438954?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    How is a segment of footage from the routine, published, broadcast record of Parliament a "leaked video"?
    It does depend if the video is actually the same one as that from which the image is taken for the twitter posting.
    Edit: found it. Yes, they use the photo for several different articles. The 'leaked video' is of something else completely, a party hustings, not a public meeting.

    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23855311.lisa-cameron-said-independence-top-priority-defecting/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,709
    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,145
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    The Herald added to the list of vile abusers no doubt. Cameron’s about turn on the road to Damascus seems so violent she must have whiplash.



    https://x.com/heraldscotland/status/1713110140671438954?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    How is a segment of footage from the routine, published, broadcast record of Parliament a "leaked video"?
    It does depend if the video is actually the same one as that from which the image is taken for the twitter posting.
    I think you've nailed it - thanks.

    That seems to be described in the text of the Herald piece:
    https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23855311.lisa-cameron-said-independence-top-priority-defecting/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    1/ Yesterday, @StewartMcDonald said this on @TheScotsman’s Steamie podcast:

    “We know that the public believe a mandate exists, as per polling. In the paper I produced in February… two thirds of the public believe there is a mandate for an independence referendum.”

    2/ So… I went back to his paper to find out if that was true. This is the polling cited in @StewartMcDonald’s paper. What it actually said was that (in Nov/Dec 2022) 69% of the public believed there should be another independence referendum *some day*.

    3/ This is clearly not the same thing as two thirds of the public believing this Scottish Government has a mandate for a referendum.

    @StewartMcDonald is supposed to be the SNP’s cool-headed realist. If even he is kidding himself, the party truly is disconnected from reality.




    https://x.com/staylorish/status/1713150397865464166?s=20

    By the end of 2026 if Scottish Labour continues to gain from the SNP in polls, Sarwar could have replaced Yousaf as FM after the next Holyrood elections anyway. Killing indyref2 talk for a generation
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    That’s nothing, just wait until he experiences crossing from Switzerland into France.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,709
    Metropolitan Police Events
    @MetPoliceEvents
    ·
    2h
    Ahead of a planned March for Palestine demo today, a Section 12 has been authorised from midday in the area shown. Any person participating in or associated with the 'Palestine Solidarity Campaign' protest must not deviate from the route below or they may be subject to arrest
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited October 2023
    kle4 said:

    Wow, some trends truly are global. BBC:

    The strongest Yes vote - 73% - was in the city electorate of Melbourne, typically viewed as one of Australia's most progressive. The seat is held by the leader of the Australian Greens party, Adam Bandt.

    Also, I guess this guy can be a bit, well, him, about the result.

    Meanwhile, the strongest No vote - 84.1%- was in Maranoa, a rural electorate in country Queensland, which is the seat of Nationals leader David Littleproud.

    Yes it was inner city areas that still voted for Hillary, for Remain and now for Yes to the Voice in Australia, they still keep the liberal progressive flag flying even if the rest of the country votes against them
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited October 2023
    Owzat! 191 all out, after only 43 overs. This shouldn’t be much of a target for the home side.

    Right, off to the pub to watch the run chase.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    I can, just about, understand why the anti-woke right on here are seeking solace in a rather weird referendum vote on the other side of the world, but it does rather smack of desperation, knowing that the Tories are finished in the UK. I can't see the slightest way that this translates into UK politics.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    I can, just about, understand why the anti-woke right on here are seeking solace in a rather weird referendum vote on the other side of the world, but it does rather smack of desperation, knowing that the Tories are finished in the UK. I can't see the slightest way that this translates into UK politics.

    I don't think it does in the slightest, it's an issue with no connection to the UK.

    But a dramatic turnout in polling and a big loss for a PM, followed by a handful of bitter whinging afterwards? It's fun precisely because there's nothing of significance to the UK political scene.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    Sandpit said:

    Owzat! 191 all out, after only 43 overs. This shouldn’t be much of a target for the home side.

    Right, off to the pub to watch the run chase.

    Some chap on here, about an hour ago, predicted around 300 for Pakistan. Now, who on earth was that?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    I can, just about, understand why the anti-woke right on here are seeking solace in a rather weird referendum vote on the other side of the world, but it does rather smack of desperation, knowing that the Tories are finished in the UK. I can't see the slightest way that this translates into UK politics.

    Er, coz some of us are interested in the wider world? Even if it means nothing for the UK?

    I know this might come as a shock to parochial PB nerds…
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    West Germany into East Germany in the mid-70's was quite a massive change - especially when we got down to Dresden. Thirty years after the war had ended, still parts not rebuilt, just massive building plots.

    And East Germany was supposed to be the showcase of Soviet achievement.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    Like Rory Stewart, another lost talent.
  • kle4 said:

    I can, just about, understand why the anti-woke right on here are seeking solace in a rather weird referendum vote on the other side of the world, but it does rather smack of desperation, knowing that the Tories are finished in the UK. I can't see the slightest way that this translates into UK politics.

    I don't think it does in the slightest, it's an issue with no connection to the UK.

    But a dramatic turnout in polling and a big loss for a PM, followed by a handful of bitter whinging afterwards? It's fun precisely because there's nothing of significance to the UK political scene.
    True, it’s no SF councillor being equivocal over Israel-Gaza.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    There will be nuggets of substance in the reams of messaging revealed, maybe even a smoking gun on a few things.

    But off colour comments, jokes, people in high stress situations coming up with things on the fly or scrambling for options, and bitching about things? That's part of being human, just a peek at how things are without the slickness of the final presentation, and a lot of the time will be nothing to get worked up about.

    There won't be lessons to learn in every aspect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    I can, just about, understand why the anti-woke right on here are seeking solace in a rather weird referendum vote on the other side of the world, but it does rather smack of desperation, knowing that the Tories are finished in the UK. I can't see the slightest way that this translates into UK politics.

    I don't think it does in the slightest, it's an issue with no connection to the UK.

    But a dramatic turnout in polling and a big loss for a PM, followed by a handful of bitter whinging afterwards? It's fun precisely because there's nothing of significance to the UK political scene.
    True, it’s no SF councillor being equivocal over Israel-Gaza.
    I may have missed that one. Israel Gaza is at least an issue which has global significance, so people will get worked up about it, even if a councillor saying something always means very little because councillors have so little authority. Aussie referendum? It's just a curiosity.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    West Germany into East Germany in the mid-70's was quite a massive change - especially when we got down to Dresden. Thirty years after the war had ended, still parts not rebuilt, just massive building plots.

    And East Germany was supposed to be the showcase of Soviet achievement.
    I offer San Diego to Tijuana 40 years ago.
  • DavidL said:

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    Like Rory Stewart, another lost talent.
    To the gangnam-salsa crossover genre or politics?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,073
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Wow, some trends truly are global. BBC:

    The strongest Yes vote - 73% - was in the city electorate of Melbourne, typically viewed as one of Australia's most progressive. The seat is held by the leader of the Australian Greens party, Adam Bandt.

    Also, I guess this guy can be a bit, well, him, about the result.

    Meanwhile, the strongest No vote - 84.1%- was in Maranoa, a rural electorate in country Queensland, which is the seat of Nationals leader David Littleproud.

    Yes it was inner city areas that still voted for Hillary, for Remain and now for Yes to the Voice in Australia, they still keep the liberal progressive flag flying even if the rest of the country votes against them
    "What Causes The Rural Urban Divide In American Politics & Beyond?" (aka "Why are cities always liberal"). Monsieur Z, YouTube, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HuFuXzGJ_M 13mins
  • In good news (well kind of but take what we can get) our new coins look absolutely mint. Well done!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67091137
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    On printers: A few months ago, MS$ asked me if I would recommend Microsoft Windows to others. Having some spare time, I answered, saying it would depend. For example, if the person was a teenager wanting to learn about operating systems, I would suggest they spend some time with Linux, possibly in a dual-boot system. If they just wanted to browse a little and send a few emails a Chromebook might be the best solution. And so on.

    Similarly, the best printer solution will vary depending on what the person wants to do with the printer. So, for example, having both an HP multi-function laser, and an Epson photo printer works for me, but that combination wouldn't make sense for most people. For the curious: MFP M148dw and Expression Premium XP-7100)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    Do everything in person with no notes taken. It is the natural consequence of airing messages that were supposed to stay private.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    edited October 2023

    Sandpit said:

    Owzat! 191 all out, after only 43 overs. This shouldn’t be much of a target for the home side.

    Right, off to the pub to watch the run chase.

    Some chap on here, about an hour ago, predicted around 300 for Pakistan. Now, who on earth was that?
    Some idiot, back when they were 150/2 after 28 overs, yes. ;)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,624

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    If Blair's sofa government had WhatsApp and we could read their messages, do you think there would be much difference?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    boulay said:

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    That’s nothing, just wait until he experiences crossing from Switzerland into France.
    Nobody does that.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited October 2023

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    We may learn that, but some of the stuff shared doesn't show that, it shows pretty normal back and forths between officials and ministers which is not to be concerned about. If somone cracked a gag in a whatsapp we can be sure some outlet will throw an outrage fit about it, but even in stressful situations people joke for example.

    I think it should all be combed through to identify genuine issues, but there's going to be a lot of fluff.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    On grocery shopping: For years I have had a loyalty card at the nearest large supermarket (QFC, part of Kroger, for now). I used it because it was required for most sales items. In the last few years, they have started sending me packets of individualized coupons once a month. In the last few months, they have actually included one "free" coupon each month, last month one for a half gallon of lactose-free milk, this month for a free dozen eggs.

    (It may not be a coincidence that Target regularly sells both those items for about a dollar less than QFC.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    ydoethur said:

    And another.

    It's now unravelling faster than a Cummings press statement.

    One more, and it will be unravelling faster than a Sunak transport policy!

    Yours saying they deliberately sabotaged their own innings ?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    There will be nuggets of substance in the reams of messaging revealed, maybe even a smoking gun on a few things.

    But off colour comments, jokes, people in high stress situations coming up with things on the fly or scrambling for options, and bitching about things? That's part of being human, just a peek at how things are without the slickness of the final presentation, and a lot of the time will be nothing to get worked up about.

    There won't be lessons to learn in every aspect.
    The biggest lesson to learn, is to use a messaging system such as Signal, with messages set to automatically delete after a week. That way, the stresses and dark humour can stay hidden.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    Sandpit said:

    Owzat! 191 all out, after only 43 overs. This shouldn’t be much of a target for the home side.

    Right, off to the pub to watch the run chase.

    Top tip, don't take the first round.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    MaxPB said:

    boulay said:

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    That’s nothing, just wait until he experiences crossing from Switzerland into France.
    Nobody does that.
    I thought everyone did their shopping that way near the border?!
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,215
    edited October 2023

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    Old fashioned municipal morality was "if you wouldn't want it on the front page of the local paper, don't say or do it." (H/T Alderman Dad.)

    There are times when that is painfully inconvenient, and probably times when it makes it hard to get to the right decision, especially in a time when changing one's mind is taboo.

    But it's not a bad star to navigate one's life by.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited October 2023

    Leon said:

    On the important question of the moment

    Tesco delivery for weekly basics. M&S in person for nice food day by day

    Not your friendly neighborhood butcher/cheesemonger etc? What kind of metropolitan elitist are you?

    (Our localest butcher has now definitively closed. Unfortunately, the children have taken against the now localest because of the statue of a jolly butcher with a massive meat cleaver who stands outside.)

    What's the panel's view of veg boxes? Useful way of ensuring variety and seasonality, or woke nonsense?
    Expensive, and we've had 'em all. When Riverford sourced from their own and local farms it was great, but we found the quality diminished over time. Local farmers market or local farm shops are great. Not many around here, and the ones in Cowbridge and St Brides are expensive, but a big thing in the Vale of Evesham, and I work in Worcestershire regularly.

    We have a decent butcher's shop in both Cowbridge and Llantwit Major, and an excellent fishmonger in Porthcawl. Everything else Waitrose, Aldi or Lidl. Oh and branded toiletries are cheaper in Home Bargains.

    As for Lidl branches having a pungent odour, the ones I use don't. And Lidl in the middle? Who can resist Chinese made, German designed hand tools and garden equipment? Although that's not strictly true. My Florabest petrol chainsaw from Aldi was made by Husquarvarna.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,709
    This track record as a leader over an extraordinary and volatile stretch of human history, coupled with his unstinting support for the Jewish state, would make Biden the ideal messenger, should he choose to be, for the counsel Israel needs in the aftermath of Hamas’s brutal and lawless assault: A full-scale ground invasion of Gaza would almost certainly be a colossal mistake, and a trap.

    Unfortunately, Biden and his administration have so far chosen not to be that messenger.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/13/opinion/biden-israel-gaza.html
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    If Blair's sofa government had WhatsApp and we could read their messages, do you think there would be much difference?
    I don’t think the Blair government had a Cummings, a man who explicitly rejected democratic norms in favour of his revolutionary zeal, nor was Blair comparable to Johnson in terms of personal mendacity or laziness!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    malcolmg said:

    Speaking to the Mail in her first interview since the shock defection, which was engineered by the personal intervention of Prime Minister Rishi Sunak, she said: ‘It feels like a relief. I feel like I can look forward now to a much more positive future in politics and the work that I do in the Parliament, where I can be supported and my own welfare can be looked after too.....

    ‘Speaking to the Prime Minister and the time he spent with me listening to how I felt about things, taking on board some of the issues I had in terms of wanting a victim-led approach in the Parliament and feeling very supported by him. It just feels very, very different and very positive.’

    Following her decision to speak up in support of the harassment victim of MP Patrick Grady last year, she was ostracised and ignored by colleagues.

    Since urging them to think about the junior staff member who was the victim of the former SNP chief whip’s approaches, she said MPs became increasingly hostile and would pretend she wasn’t there.


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12628907/My-regret-didnt-leave-SNP-cult-sooner.html

    Pass the sick bucket, she took Tory bribe. A grifter only out to line her own pockets.
    Unlike most MPs Dr Cameron almost certainly took a significant wage cut to become an MP. She is also not standing (at least in her own constituency) again. What bribe? What grifting? What are you talking about Malcolm?
    I think it was previously suggested on here that a seat in the Lords might be in play. Difficult to see how her 'future in politics' would be meaningful otherwise, unless a safe Tory seat can be found for someone who only days ago was complaining about a Tory assault on devolution and them dragging Scotland out of the EU.
    I thought she was meant to be done with politics, and this was the most embarrassing move she could inflict on the SNP. If she's not, agreed, where is she supposed to go which would provide a safe home?
    her bribe will hav ebeen promise of ermine going by rumours, certainly lacking any principles.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,582
    India starting as they mean to go on with the bat. Bets on which over they win the game? I’ll go for 23.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    AlistairM said:

    MaxPB said:

    boulay said:

    Ed Balls very interesting on his Political Currency Podcast about a visit to Gaza he had a few years ago. The contrast between Israel and then crossing into Gaza, he says, is unlike anything he has ever seen. From "modernity to abject dereliction".


    That’s nothing, just wait until he experiences crossing from Switzerland into France.
    Nobody does that.
    I thought everyone did their shopping that way near the border?!
    I used to pop across the border to do a big shop at Super U at weekends but could also cross the border several times on a daily dog walk. I loved that the old border marker stones along the small roads still said “Savoie” rather than France. Very very rarely went through a manned border just the odd sign indicating the border.

    You really do notice the difference in the state of the roads, the ditches along the side of the roads as soon as it’s France, the messy state of houses and gardens etc.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Frieze is busy. As busy as I’ve seen it in 15 years, perhaps

    A good sign for London

    Also it has this, which is about post-colonialism



  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,319

    JPJ2 said:

    Carlotta Vance says,

    "Not sure calling Labour "Red Tories" is going to work, with an SNP MP defecting to the Tories"

    Perhaps you are making a logical error here. I have seen this argument advanced elsewhere, but my point is that Cameron has had to leave the SNP precisely because they are NOT Tories, so that she can pursue Tory policies.

    Labour supporters do not have to leave Labour to support Tory policies but can rely on Starmer who has declared his party to be the real Tories.

    You make a perhaps a temporarily useful propaganda point, but one with little traction.

    Since so much of the Sturgeon legacy was built on "hating the Toreeees" and "not getting a government in Westminster we voted for" I suspect many Scots will "get a government they voted for" at the next GE - by voting Labour - and may also calculate that installing a cooperative Labour administration in Holyrood may be a better option that returning a demonstrably incompetent grievance mongering Trans obsessed SNP one.

    London sockpuppets will be no panacea for Scotland , no better than Tories and certainly not a Scottish party. When the grey man says jump Anus will say how high.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,812
    edited October 2023
    <

    DavidL said:

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    In fairness what we are seeing being published is a lot of noise and tittle tattle. I really worry about how governments are going to operate if people cannot speak to each other freely without fear of subsequent publication. And is this not the sort of nonsense that we were told would not be published when the government lost their court case against the Chairman?
    I don’t think it’s noise and tittle tattle. We know Cummings was a narcissistic nihilist. We know Johnson was a pathological liar with no interest in the hard work of governing. This was not a normal government. It was a fundamentally dysfunctional one.

    What we are learning now is how much that dysfunction impacted on the country’s response to COVID-19.
    If Blair's sofa government had WhatsApp and we could read their messages, do you think there would be much difference?
    I don’t think the Blair government had a Cummings, a man who explicitly rejected democratic norms in favour of his revolutionary zeal, nor was Blair comparable to Johnson in terms of personal mendacity or laziness!
    Interesting....You've never heard of Alastair Campbell?

    From the Independent:
    "Earlier this week, former Cabinet Secretary Lord Butler described the first Blair government as a “dysfunctional” collective entity. He was taking part in a debate on the Chilcot report. That is the big risk we run with a political class such as we have at present – dysfunction in government."
    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/broken-democracy-spin-doctors-destroyed-uk-politics-theresa-may-repair-it-a7135146.html
  • Entirely off-topic geekery. I am listening to Steven Wilson's album The Harmony Codex (which is bloody good btw) in Dolby Atmos on my all Apple (sell out!!!) set-up. iPhone 15 Pro max, Airpods Pro 2.

    The sound quality is *unreal*. I have got a set of very nice headphones (Bowers & Wilkins), but the spatial audio and now Atmos you can get off the pods is something else.

    Especially when the album is recorded and mixed by the industry go-to guy for Atmos mixing...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Are people following the COVID-19 Inquiry? The recently released WhatsApp messages lay bare the degree of chaos and incompetence in the Johnson premiership: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67101479

    Behave. Carrie has been one of our better Prime Ministers. And she throws a decent party too.
This discussion has been closed.