But I would not rule out this happening as the scale of economic damage that Brexit has caused becomes clearer.
So clear that Mike is unable to say what it is.
But mention we now have full employment and see how that triggers some people.
What good is full employment if no-one under 30 can buy a home unless they get it passed down from their family
Well how do I know several people in their mid 20s who have bought houses in recent years ?
Now they do live in northern England and mostly avoided going to university but it does show that it is possible.
The housing problem is one concentrated in southern England and in particular among the southern English middle class.
What we're seeing currently is a reversal of the 1970s and 1980s with the northern working class having improved opportunities and the southern middle class regressing.
It is this change to the 'normal' state that is causing such socioeconomic strain.
And with continued globalisation and upcoming effects of AI its a socioeconomic strain which is likely to increase.
Ditto. Niece and friends in Cornwall. Didn’t go to uni. Have decent jobs. They’re in their late 20s and they’ve bought their first homes - in not unpleasant parts of Cornwall (supposedly a property hotspot)
It is do-able. But not so much in london or the SE
I am early 30s with a house in a not unpleasant part of Newcastle Remainier. No disposable income though, which imagine is not great for the economy. All my capital goes into bricks and mortar.
That is an often overlooked point. High property prices suck money away from the rest of the economy.
Away from some parts of the economy but towards other parts.
Not really because it just ends up as a store of wealth that can't be spent. A better objection might be that mortgage-payers would otherwise spaff their cash on imports that don't do much for the domestic economy either.
Off topic, how many ex-referees watching the footy noticed the poor positioning of the lady doing the England/Colombia game?
She's been poor generally, but her bad positioning led to her impeding a defender in the build-up to the Colombian goal.
Good game though, and England deserved the luck this time, unlike in their previous game.
They’ve only played 1 decent game in the tournament but they are still in it. How many times have we seen German teams only come alive in the latter stages of tournaments?
I've only caught snatches of this one, David, and they looked alright to me this time. They were hopeless against Nigeria.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
We should have sent 30p out in a dinghy. Shout at drowning people that they should fuck off back to France. And then put it on an election poster. HY could then tell us why letting the invaders drown is the Christan thing to do actually.
Lots of handwaving away a big majority for rejoin in this poll this morning. The main concern of the leave voting public, immigration - and the bit people are really concerned about illegal immigration and large numbers hasn't really improved since Brexit.
It's been extremely effective on controlling EU immigration.
That's gone from hundreds of thousands per annum to net negative.
Only to be replaced by Indian sub-Continent immigration (tbf as promised by Boris Johnson). Either are fine by me, but I did prefer reciprocal freedom of movement which is why I voted Remain.
I must have missed the UK trade deal with India giving Indians free movement to the UK
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
Eff off!*
You catch buses at a bus station, so you catch trains at a TRAIN station!
Lots of handwaving away a big majority for rejoin in this poll this morning. The main concern of the leave voting public, immigration - and the bit people are really concerned about illegal immigration and large numbers hasn't really improved since Brexit.
It's been extremely effective on controlling EU immigration.
That's gone from hundreds of thousands per annum to net negative.
Only to be replaced by Indian sub-Continent immigration (tbf as promised by Boris Johnson). Either are fine by me, but I did prefer reciprocal freedom of movement which is why I voted Remain.
I must have missed the UK trade deal with India giving Indians free movement to the UK
There's a brilliant book about shipbuilding, the Rise and Fall of British Shipbuilding, but Anthony Burton. It's been some time since I read it, but the decline in shipbuilding was far more complex than just bad management! or bad government!, or unions! There are so many other factors, like lack of strategic vision, lack of understanding of the customers, and a radically changing marketplace.
If there had been good management, good social structure in the workplace, flexible unions and government that had some kind of clue, then shipbuilding in the U.K. would have had a chance. But multiply the failures of all of them together…
Perhaps the skills needed to get to the top are different from those needed to stay there.
And while Britain had plenty of the first during the industrial revolution it didn't have enough of the second type during the 20th century.
'Clogs to clogs in three generations' in the old Yorkshire saying or in economic theory:
Slide Rule has some interesting bits when Shute was dealing with the ship building industry. Intellectually incurious, to put it mildly.
They were run by the kind of manger who does what he’s always done. And by God, will keep doing the same thing. Forever. Imagine the watch chains rattling as he pounds the table to emphasise this.
The original buccaneering engineer types were long gone by then, of course.
What caused the change ? Around the First World War, there was a real entrepreneurialism, which often involved government, and collaboration with university science. (See, for example, the early career of Chaim Weizmann, and the development of industrial chemical fermentation.)
Before the war, the gun makers refused to change from wire wound to built up guns. Point blank no, to a request from Jellicoe.
The response to a test order of a longitudinally framed destroyer was a delegation of shipbuilders and unions to demand the constructor responsible for the i ovation should be fired.
Lots of handwaving away a big majority for rejoin in this poll this morning. The main concern of the leave voting public, immigration - and the bit people are really concerned about illegal immigration and large numbers hasn't really improved since Brexit.
It's been extremely effective on controlling EU immigration.
That's gone from hundreds of thousands per annum to net negative.
Only to be replaced by Indian sub-Continent immigration (tbf as promised by Boris Johnson). Either are fine by me, but I did prefer reciprocal freedom of movement which is why I voted Remain.
I must have missed the UK trade deal with India giving Indians free movement to the UK
Regarding Brexit polling I am quite suspicious of it, I suspect it reflects the rapid die off of 2016 Brexit voters. But if you put the question back to voters again and they actually have to contemplate what being in the EU means (giving up sovereignty, having to follow rules that you don't have complete control over, having to accept unlimited immigration) then it would probably be a very close run thing, so high risk for any government to advocate.
There would need to be a change in circumstances whereby rejoining the EU became massively in our interest - I don't think these circumstances exist yet.
The people who have died off between 2016 and 2023 are predominantly those who were in their 80's or more in 2016, who were born on/before 1936. They were predominantly Remainers. It's the Boomers (those born 1945-1964) who were predominantly(?) Leavers, and they are in 2023 aged between 59 and 78. The wacky munchkins with their neoliberal Cold-War mindset will be with us for the next 15-20 years. Any movement towards Remain that occured between 2016 and 2023 was not caused by deaths.
You are assuming life expectancy is close to the same for remainers and leavers. Even the names give a clue that this may not be the case.....
Good point, but I'm not sure the differential will be enough to make a significant difference.
Even if we were given the chance (we won't be) on similar terms to those we tore up (we won't) it would be in principle wrong to reverse the democratic decision and its immediate consequences.
Even if it was a bad decision (it was) we have to live with the consequernces. We made the bed, we lie in it.
Nothing worse than having to lie in a bed that someone else has shat..
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
If it were people leaving of their own accord then maybe, but the organised nature of it makes it a problem they need to look at. There are international treaties about human trafficking.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
If it were people leaving of their own accord then maybe, but the organised nature of it makes it a problem they need to look at. There are international treaties about human trafficking.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
I think I saw the UK government asking the German government to seize several hundred boats clearly for this purpose that were being stored there. Don’t know if this was acted on.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
If it were people leaving of their own accord then maybe, but the organised nature of it makes it a problem they need to look at. There are international treaties about human trafficking.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
I think I saw the UK government asking the German government to seize several hundred boats clearly for this purpose that were being stored there. Don’t know if this was acted on.
Wasn’t there something with the Turkish government as well? Just recently?
Even if we were given the chance (we won't be) on similar terms to those we tore up (we won't) it would be in principle wrong to reverse the democratic decision and its immediate consequences.
Even if it was a bad decision (it was) we have to live with the consequernces. We made the bed, we lie in it.
I agree with much of this but your post suggests that a democratic decision at one point in time is immutable. The mandate of the 2016 referendum has been fulfilled. We’ve done what the ballot paper said. We would not be reversing that decision (that is, as you say, impossible) but making a new decision. We’ll be joining on, as you say, new terms. Nothing undemocratic about that at all. And the masochism of “make your bed and lie in it” is pragmatically dangerous. Historical attempts to make entire populations suffer for past mistakes have not ended well.
The 1983 referendum in Ireland that introduced the 8th amendment was recently superseded by a new right to abortion. That’s wasn’t undemocratic either. Introducing timescales to these things is artificial.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
Eff off!*
You catch buses at a bus station, so you catch trains at a TRAIN station!
* just kiddin'
You are both wrong. You catch trains at a station.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
Eff off!*
You catch buses at a bus station, so you catch trains at a TRAIN station!
* just kiddin'
You are both wrong. You catch trains at a station.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
The French locally, around Calais, hate the immigrants. They will actually say this outright. And I mean hate. The stuff from the police makes the Met look like they are to the left of Black Lives Matter.
No French government is going to fight to keep the boats from leaving - unless you can persuade a French government to prioritise the interests of the U.K. over France. Which doesn’t happen in French politics.
Many of those on the boats are coming for a mix of reasons. A combination of war and economic motives. Claiming asylum is the last resort - they want to head into the “black” economy of the U.K.
The only way to cut into this is to kill the “black” economy in the U.K.
This depends on sub minimum wage low skilled labour.
So, offer the following
1) if someone reports an employer for employing undocumented labour, they get 1/2 the fine on conviction 2) if they are undocumented themselves, they get indefinite leave to remain and work, upon conviction of the employer.
Suddenly, we will have 100s of thousands of freelance enforcement officers.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
If it were people leaving of their own accord then maybe, but the organised nature of it makes it a problem they need to look at. There are international treaties about human trafficking.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
So, people selling boats, boat trailers and other gear are having a great time.
This, and the migrants leaving is awesome as far as the local politicians are concerned. Money spent, and they are leaving.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
The French locally, around Calais, hate the immigrants. They will actually say this outright. And I mean hate. The stuff from the police makes the Met look like they are to the left of Black Lives Matter.
No French government is going to fight to keep the boats from leaving - unless you can persuade a French government to prioritise the interests of the U.K. over France. Which doesn’t happen in French politics.
Many of those on the boats are coming for a mix of reasons. A combination of war and economic motives. Claiming asylum is the last resort - they want to head into the “black” economy of the U.K.
The only way to cut into this is to kill the “black” economy in the U.K.
This depends on sub minimum wage low skilled labour.
So, offer the following
1) if someone reports an employer for employing undocumented labour, they get 1/2 the fine on conviction 2) if they are undocumented themselves, they get indefinite leave to remain and work, upon conviction of the employer.
Suddenly, we will have 100s of thousands of freelance enforcement officers.
Agreed. One thing I don’t understand is how the people of Calais do not see that the small boats business is the draw that brings the migrants they hate so much to their region in the first place.
If they want this draw to go and thus stop them coming to Calais then maybe they need to get vocal with their local authorities and start demanding fierce action is taken on finding and destroying any of the boats before they leave shore and also spending money on undercover work to identify the parties involved in organisation - and demand the French authorities work closer with the British.
Small boats are a problem for the UK but actually also a large problem for that part of France and the answer for France is not to help them on their way to the UK but to make sure there is no reason to be moving to Calais in the first place.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
Eff off!*
You catch buses at a bus station, so you catch trains at a TRAIN station!
* just kiddin'
You are both wrong. You catch trains at a station.
There are loads of reasons why 3d-printing isn't ready yet to eat Games Workshop's lunch. It's definitely not yet a technology where it "just works" - but one of Games Workshop's challenges here is that their customer base does include nerdy people who are prepared to spend a lot of time fiddling about with things until they look nice. So they're precisely the sort of people who will be prepared to experiment with layer heights and curing times until the model comes out how they want it.
I did a test print at a local library which has a couple of 3d printers, and I decided that it wasn't for me. At least not yet.
3D printing is one of those technologies that's not a threat to established business models - right up to the moment it is, and then it's too late to react. And most people's idea of what 3D printing is capable of is unfortunately formed by having seen some crappy £250 Chinese bed-slinger spitting out something that looks vaguely like boat, if you squint a bit.
I handle 3D printing as part of my business and if I were a manufacturer producing plastic parts of any type using traditional methods like injection moulding I'd be terrified. The capabilities of industrial level 3D printers like those from Stratasys and HP are incredible. They can print detailed, colourful objects using a variety of materials.
It's the trickle-down of those capabilities as patents expire that's going to disrupt multiple industries. Ten years ago a consumer or small-business level printer was good if several days of tweaking and maintenance enabled it to print something identifiable. Today I can spend less than £2500 for a machine that will print 16-colour detailed models, in good quality with a high degree of reliability. Even the little sub £1000 machine I have on my desk will produce multi-colour prints in high enough quality that you really need to look closely to tell it's a 3D print.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
How can it be a railway station? Railways never move.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
We should have sent 30p out in a dinghy. Shout at drowning people that they should fuck off back to France. And then put it on an election poster. HY could then tell us why letting the invaders drown is the Christan thing to do actually.
Doesn't really work, your proposal. The late drownees hadn't left France (well, French waters) AIUI. This is pedantry - but it is the sort of pedantry on which the law turns.
Also: see maritime law re letting people drown in your sight.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
Eff off!*
You catch buses at a bus station, so you catch trains at a TRAIN station!
* just kiddin'
You are both wrong. You catch trains at a station.
There are loads of reasons why 3d-printing isn't ready yet to eat Games Workshop's lunch. It's definitely not yet a technology where it "just works" - but one of Games Workshop's challenges here is that their customer base does include nerdy people who are prepared to spend a lot of time fiddling about with things until they look nice. So they're precisely the sort of people who will be prepared to experiment with layer heights and curing times until the model comes out how they want it.
I did a test print at a local library which has a couple of 3d printers, and I decided that it wasn't for me. At least not yet.
3D printing is one of those technologies that's not a threat to established business models - right up to the moment it is, and then it's too late to react. And most people's idea of what 3D printing is capable of is unfortunately formed by having seen some crappy £250 Chinese bed-slinger spitting out something that looks vaguely like boat, if you squint a bit.
I handle 3D printing as part of my business and if I were a manufacturer producing plastic parts of any type using traditional methods like injection moulding I'd be terrified. The capabilities of industrial level 3D printers like those from Stratasys and HP are incredible. They can print detailed, colourful objects using a variety of materials.
It's the trickle-down of those capabilities as patents expire that's going to disrupt multiple industries. Ten years ago a consumer or small-business level printer was good if several days of tweaking and maintenance enabled it to print something identifiable. Today I can spend less than £2500 for a machine that will print 16-colour detailed models, in good quality with a high degree of reliability. Even the little sub £1000 machine I have on my desk will produce multi-colour prints in high enough quality that you really need to look closely to tell it's a 3D print.
How stable is the plastic over a medium to long timescale? Will it fall apart within 10 years? O|r what?
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
If it were people leaving of their own accord then maybe, but the organised nature of it makes it a problem they need to look at. There are international treaties about human trafficking.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
Why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France? Because the UK media is too lazy to report what happens in another country and/or the right wing press won’t report anything that doesn’t suit their narrative?
Even if we were given the chance (we won't be) on similar terms to those we tore up (we won't) it would be in principle wrong to reverse the democratic decision and its immediate consequences.
Even if it was a bad decision (it was) we have to live with the consequernces. We made the bed, we lie in it.
I agree with much of this but your post suggests that a democratic decision at one point in time is immutable. The mandate of the 2016 referendum has been fulfilled. We’ve done what the ballot paper said. We would not be reversing that decision (that is, as you say, impossible) but making a new decision. We’ll be joining on, as you say, new terms. Nothing undemocratic about that at all. And the masochism of “make your bed and lie in it” is pragmatically dangerous. Historical attempts to make entire populations suffer for past mistakes have not ended well.
The 1983 referendum in Ireland that introduced the 8th amendment was recently superseded by a new right to abortion. That’s wasn’t undemocratic either. Introducing timescales to these things is artificial.
And 'shit the bed and lie in it' is actually medically dangerous.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
Eff off!*
You catch buses at a bus station, so you catch trains at a TRAIN station!
* just kiddin'
You are both wrong. You catch trains at a station.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
The French locally, around Calais, hate the immigrants. They will actually say this outright. And I mean hate. The stuff from the police makes the Met look like they are to the left of Black Lives Matter.
No French government is going to fight to keep the boats from leaving - unless you can persuade a French government to prioritise the interests of the U.K. over France. Which doesn’t happen in French politics.
Many of those on the boats are coming for a mix of reasons. A combination of war and economic motives. Claiming asylum is the last resort - they want to head into the “black” economy of the U.K.
The only way to cut into this is to kill the “black” economy in the U.K.
This depends on sub minimum wage low skilled labour.
So, offer the following
1) if someone reports an employer for employing undocumented labour, they get 1/2 the fine on conviction 2) if they are undocumented themselves, they get indefinite leave to remain and work, upon conviction of the employer.
Suddenly, we will have 100s of thousands of freelance enforcement officers.
Agreed. One thing I don’t understand is how the people of Calais do not see that the small boats business is the draw that brings the migrants they hate so much to their region in the first place.
If they want this draw to go and thus stop them coming to Calais then maybe they need to get vocal with their local authorities and start demanding fierce action is taken on finding and destroying any of the boats before they leave shore and also spending money on undercover work to identify the parties involved in organisation - and demand the French authorities work closer with the British.
Small boats are a problem for the UK but actually also a large problem for that part of France and the answer for France is not to help them on their way to the UK but to make sure there is no reason to be moving to Calais in the first place.
I’ve just posted a bunch of links about the French trying to stop the small boats. The French are absolutely interested in stopping this. It’s some strange jingoistic nonsense to pretend that they’re ignoring the problem.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
The French locally, around Calais, hate the immigrants. They will actually say this outright. And I mean hate. The stuff from the police makes the Met look like they are to the left of Black Lives Matter.
No French government is going to fight to keep the boats from leaving - unless you can persuade a French government to prioritise the interests of the U.K. over France. Which doesn’t happen in French politics.
Many of those on the boats are coming for a mix of reasons. A combination of war and economic motives. Claiming asylum is the last resort - they want to head into the “black” economy of the U.K.
The only way to cut into this is to kill the “black” economy in the U.K.
This depends on sub minimum wage low skilled labour.
So, offer the following
1) if someone reports an employer for employing undocumented labour, they get 1/2 the fine on conviction 2) if they are undocumented themselves, they get indefinite leave to remain and work, upon conviction of the employer.
Suddenly, we will have 100s of thousands of freelance enforcement officers.
Agreed. One thing I don’t understand is how the people of Calais do not see that the small boats business is the draw that brings the migrants they hate so much to their region in the first place.
If they want this draw to go and thus stop them coming to Calais then maybe they need to get vocal with their local authorities and start demanding fierce action is taken on finding and destroying any of the boats before they leave shore and also spending money on undercover work to identify the parties involved in organisation - and demand the French authorities work closer with the British.
Small boats are a problem for the UK but actually also a large problem for that part of France and the answer for France is not to help them on their way to the UK but to make sure there is no reason to be moving to Calais in the first place.
There is no practical way to stop migrants arriving in Calais. Once inside the EU, they are in. The locals know this.
In the past, they piled up in camps. Now they are leaving. Which the locals see and like.
They believe that if the boats stop, the camps will grow again.
I posted this last night. It's entitled 'Clacton. Living in a post Brexit society'. A brilliant mini documentary (a German crew i think) and it explains why the result was as it was and why the referendum was almost certain to produce the result it did
I have no idea how it ended up making such uniformly crap cars. It's not as if we didn't have the design and engineering expertise to make good ones in this country.
The truth is BL wasn't, or rather it didn't need to be as bad as it turned out.
The Mini and the 1100/1300 despite their 1952 derived engines were still world beaters in 1968 when British Leyland was formed as the 4th largest automotive group in the world. Pininfarina had been tasked with reworking both the 1100 and the 1800, The results were eye-catching designs that looked like the later Citroen GS and XM models. Issigonis had reworked the Mini into a modern looking hatchback in 1968. Lord Stokes, who was a Triumph man wanted to promote the Triumph product over the BMC offering so they all got cancelled.
The Marina was a decent idea, fill the fleet market with a simple rwd offering to compete with Britain's second best selling car of the 1960s, the Cortina (the 1100/1300 was the best seller up to and including 1970). It looked modern, although with cart springs at the rear handled like a tractor. The 2 door "coupe" was ridiculous borrowing the 4 door's front doors without extending them for rear seat access, making it look odd. But it should just have been a stop gap until something better came along. Personally I would have persevered with the Austin Apache/Victoria, an attractive three box version of the1100 that was sold in South Africa and Spain.
The Allegro was a sleek wedge design by Harris Mann, which was squashed in order to fit the Maxi engine under the bonnet. Instead of being an aerodynamic wedge it looked like a dumpy pudding. Neither did it sport a hatchback, a problem that also befell the "wedge" Princess. The Allegro which was awful to drive and inferior to it's predecessor which it replaced. The Allegro of course became the poster boy for all that was wrong with BL.
The Range Rover was a world beater, and Rover SD1 was well engineered. The Metro looked the part, although still with the Mini's ancient and tired A series engine.
And of course they were all made by Derek Robinson using paper and string
The venture was a failure, but the cars weren't "unniformly crap", and it could have been so much different.
Remember Renault needed bailing out by the French Government too at the same time, and that led to a happier ending.
I used to be a bit of a car nut, and bought and drove a lot of old bangers in my youth.
I have had a Triumph Spitfire, Austin Sprite, Mini, Austin 1100, Austin Maxi, Morris Marina, Triumph Dolomite and Rover 3500 at various times. They were all perfectly decent cars, and no more or less driveable and reliable than the old Opels, Lancia*, Fiat, Citroën, Hillman and Fords that I have had at various times. One advantage of old technology like the A series engine is that they were easy to fix at home. Re-doing the brakes on a 2 CV was a nightmare.
*best to drive with a beautiful engine, but dissolved on a rainy day into a pile of ferrous oxide.
I had a late Beta saloon, another hatchback without a hatchback and an Alfa GTV6 which was a beautiful car, but the build quality was to Derek Robinson standards along with its sub-Lucas (Maretti Magnelli) electrics.
What I don’t understand is why Lancia hasn’t been repackaged as a heritage brand, all the desirability with added build quality. Afaics all it’s pooped out recently is some fairly anodyne stuff that doesn’t sell very well with some added concept bs. The marque is talked of here in the UK in hushed, worshipful tones, perhaps in Italy they have such an embarrassment of riches they don’t need to bother?
Around a decade ago they prototyped a Fulvia Coupe based on a Punto floorpan. I'd have bought one, but it never made production.
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
If it were people leaving of their own accord then maybe, but the organised nature of it makes it a problem they need to look at. There are international treaties about human trafficking.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
Why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France? Because the UK media is too lazy to report what happens in another country and/or the right wing press won’t report anything that doesn’t suit their narrative?
How sad. Let’s hope that some sort of a solution can be found, that disincentivises such crossings before more deaths happen.
The only solution is to stop boats from leaving in the first place.
Oh indeed, which is sadly much easier said than done.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
I don't blame the French at all.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
If it were people leaving of their own accord then maybe, but the organised nature of it makes it a problem they need to look at. There are international treaties about human trafficking.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
Why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France? Because the UK media is too lazy to report what happens in another country and/or the right wing press won’t report anything that doesn’t suit their narrative?
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
How can it be a railway station? Railways never move.
Why does anyone care either way ? Either sounds fine to me.
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
How can it be a railway station? Railways never move.
Why does anyone care either way ? Either sounds fine to me.
I thought a wailway station was the place you weighed whales.......
Do I have to get my coat if the thread is already closed?
Republicans don’t believe they should subject to the criminal justice system, when they’ve committed crimes.
GOP lawmaker warns of ‘civil war’ at fundraiser for indicted Trump electors https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/11/michigan-civil-war-gop-fundraiser/ Michigan state Rep. Matt Maddock (R) warned supporters at a recent fundraiser at his home that a “civil war” would break out or that people would get shot if the government continued to target conservatives, according to audio of the event obtained by the Messenger, which first reported the remarks...
Republicans don’t believe they should subject to the criminal justice system, when they’ve committed crimes.
GOP lawmaker warns of ‘civil war’ at fundraiser for indicted Trump electors https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/11/michigan-civil-war-gop-fundraiser/ Michigan state Rep. Matt Maddock (R) warned supporters at a recent fundraiser at his home that a “civil war” would break out or that people would get shot if the government continued to target conservatives, according to audio of the event obtained by the Messenger, which first reported the remarks...
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
How can it be a railway station? Railways never move.
Why does anyone care either way ? Either sounds fine to me.
I thought a wailway station was the place you weighed whales.......
Do I have to get my coat if the thread is already closed?
We had a boat sinking. People drowning. Some of them kids. In that situation you send all available rescuers. Because we are human and people drowning is bad
Unless you are the right wing, or a Tory politician. Where hardening people's souls is a vote winning strategy. So that people on the Daily Mail demand that the RNLI not attend - they don't care that people be left to drown.
Is this what the right call common sense politics?
One of the most popular complaints seems to be that the incident was in French waters, so (presumably) they should have been left to drown etc. if the French didn't get there in time.
If they hadn't tried to enter the country illegally, they wouldn't have got into difficulty in the water.
Looks like Lee has escaped..
Lee Anderson's favourite train station:
Railway station.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
How can it be a railway station? Railways never move.
Why does anyone care either way ? Either sounds fine to me.
I thought a wailway station was the place you weighed whales.......
Do I have to get my coat if the thread is already closed?
Republicans don’t believe they should subject to the criminal justice system, when they’ve committed crimes.
GOP lawmaker warns of ‘civil war’ at fundraiser for indicted Trump electors https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/11/michigan-civil-war-gop-fundraiser/ Michigan state Rep. Matt Maddock (R) warned supporters at a recent fundraiser at his home that a “civil war” would break out or that people would get shot if the government continued to target conservatives, according to audio of the event obtained by the Messenger, which first reported the remarks...
Talk is easy and used for grifting money.
In reality all the 'Oath Keepers' and 'Three Percenters' and 'Proud Boys' have done nothing.
If there was any substance to their talk then there would already be resistance movements in the Rockies and Appalachia and terrorist attacks on the big cities.
But I would not rule out this happening as the scale of economic damage that Brexit has caused becomes clearer.
So clear that Mike is unable to say what it is.
But mention we now have full employment and see how that triggers some people.
What good is full employment if no-one under 30 can buy a home unless they get it passed down from their family
Well how do I know several people in their mid 20s who have bought houses in recent years ?
Now they do live in northern England and mostly avoided going to university but it does show that it is possible.
The housing problem is one concentrated in southern England and in particular among the southern English middle class.
What we're seeing currently is a reversal of the 1970s and 1980s with the northern working class having improved opportunities and the southern middle class regressing.
It is this change to the 'normal' state that is causing such socioeconomic strain.
And with continued globalisation and upcoming effects of AI its a socioeconomic strain which is likely to increase.
Ditto. Niece and friends in Cornwall. Didn’t go to uni. Have decent jobs. They’re in their late 20s and they’ve bought their first homes - in not unpleasant parts of Cornwall (supposedly a property hotspot)
It is do-able. But not so much in london or the SE
I am early 30s with a house in a not unpleasant part of Newcastle Remainier. No disposable income though, which imagine is not great for the economy. All my capital goes into bricks and mortar.
That is an often overlooked point. High property prices suck money away from the rest of the economy.
Away from some parts of the economy but towards other parts.
Not really because it just ends up as a store of wealth that can't be spent. A better objection might be that mortgage-payers would otherwise spaff their cash on imports that don't do much for the domestic economy either.
There's plenty of property and financial organisation which profit from higher property prices.
GDP per head is a very poor measure of quality of life. I'd rather live in Portugal than about 40 of the 50 American states, even though Portugal's GDP per head is probably well below every US state including Mississippi.
Yet Portugal can't support its own population without mass emigration, whereas migrants from rich and poor countries alike flock to America.
Usual caveats apply; might just be the Russians playing about, or the bridge deciding it's had enough of all this rubbish and it just wants a nice peaceful sleep on the (sea) bed...
Edit: "At least one span fell on the bridge and another small ship was hit" - Crimean local chats
Russians are saying they shot down two missiles near the bridge, but the bridge itself is undamaged.
If Brexit had been a success, I don't think people, on both sides of the debate, would be wittering on about it quite so much more than seven years after the referendum. Despite that, I suspect that the chances of us rejoining fully within the next ten years are precisely zero.
True, but I will still miss my freedom of movement.
Why?
You can go pretty much anywhere for 90 days every 180 days. Repeat ad infinitum. In fact, you can exercise full free movement 50% of the time. You might be able to do so all the time if you flipped around countries.
I think the longest I've spent abroad in one country my whole life in one stint is 42 days.
It's wholly academic to me.
I was planning on retiring to Southern France. No matter, Boris Johnson became Prime Minister, so I suppose Brexit was worth all the heartache in the grand scheme of things.
Comments
He really lacks any positive cause to support.
Remember that for him Cameron and Osborne were the twin messiahs.
But now Cameron has pimped himself out to shysters like Greensill and Gupta while Osborne is a hireling of dubious Russians and Chinese.
Those who say "train station" should be sentenced to travel by Pacer for all eternity.
There’s a number of pull factors and push factors driving people to the UK specifically, the French appear at best ambivalent to the issue, including to the people traffickers operating in France, and the boats being used are clearly not seaworthy and often overloaded.
The solution is going to be complex and multi-faceted, including encouragement to the French to look at the problems on their side, a focus on refugee camps near war zones, working with UK embassies abroad to fast-track asylum claims, and yes, something like the Rwanda approach for irregular arrivals. It needs to be clear that getting on a small boat won’t end with asylum granted to live in the UK, so that people stop taking the risk.
Please.
If asylum seekers were migrating from this country to another we'd be happy to see them go.
You catch buses at a bus station, so you catch trains at a TRAIN station!
* just kiddin'
The response to a test order of a longitudinally framed destroyer was a delegation of shipbuilders and unions to demand the constructor responsible for the i ovation should be fired.
If, as is being reported, these migrants are paying several thousand euro to get on the boat, then where is this money being laundered, and why are there no reports of traffickers being arrested in France, or sales of dodgy boats being monitored?
Full employment
Workers pay rises
Extra NHS spending
Increasing support for government intervention in the economy and housing
And over in the USA a President following what is effectively a LEXIT strategy of government subsidised intervention and re-industrialisation.
Its what 'old Labour' supporters would have dreamed of.
But for the centre-right free marketeer globalisers who thought that history had ended the future looks grim.
The 1983 referendum in Ireland that introduced the 8th amendment was recently superseded by a new right to abortion. That’s wasn’t undemocratic either. Introducing timescales to these things is artificial.
No French government is going to fight to keep the boats from leaving - unless you can persuade a French government to prioritise the interests of the U.K. over France. Which doesn’t happen in French politics.
Many of those on the boats are coming for a mix of reasons. A combination of war and economic motives. Claiming asylum is the last resort - they want to head into the “black” economy of the U.K.
The only way to cut into this is to kill the “black” economy in the U.K.
This depends on sub minimum wage low skilled labour.
So, offer the following
1) if someone reports an employer for employing undocumented labour, they get 1/2 the fine on conviction
2) if they are undocumented themselves, they get indefinite leave to remain and work, upon conviction of the employer.
Suddenly, we will have 100s of thousands of freelance enforcement officers.
This, and the migrants leaving is awesome as far as the local politicians are concerned. Money spent, and they are leaving.
Everyone is happy.
If they want this draw to go and thus stop them coming to Calais then maybe they need to get vocal with their local authorities and start demanding fierce action is taken on finding and destroying any of the boats before they leave shore and also spending money on undercover work to identify the parties involved in organisation - and demand the French authorities work closer with the British.
Small boats are a problem for the UK but actually also a large problem for that part of France and the answer for France is not to help them on their way to the UK but to make sure there is no reason to be moving to Calais in the first place.
I handle 3D printing as part of my business and if I were a manufacturer producing plastic parts of any type using traditional methods like injection moulding I'd be terrified. The capabilities of industrial level 3D printers like those from Stratasys and HP are incredible. They can print detailed, colourful objects using a variety of materials.
It's the trickle-down of those capabilities as patents expire that's going to disrupt multiple industries. Ten years ago a consumer or small-business level printer was good if several days of tweaking and maintenance enabled it to print something identifiable. Today I can spend less than £2500 for a machine that will print 16-colour detailed models, in good quality with a high degree of reliability. Even the little sub £1000 machine I have on my desk will produce multi-colour prints in high enough quality that you really need to look closely to tell it's a 3D print.
Also: see maritime law re letting people drown in your sight.
https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk/news/six-convicted-in-france-over-small-boat-migrant-smuggling-network
https://www.europol.europa.eu/media-press/newsroom/news/39-arrests-in-cross-border-operation-against-migrant-smuggling-in-small-boats-across-english-channel
https://www.interpol.int/en/News-and-Events/News/2022/121-arrests-in-operation-against-migrant-smuggling-and-human-trafficking-INTERPOL
In the past, they piled up in camps. Now they are leaving. Which the locals see and like.
They believe that if the boats stop, the camps will grow again.
https://www.below-the-radar.com/lancia-fulvia/
Either sounds fine to me.
Do I have to get my coat if the thread is already closed?
GOP lawmaker warns of ‘civil war’ at fundraiser for indicted Trump electors
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/08/11/michigan-civil-war-gop-fundraiser/
Michigan state Rep. Matt Maddock (R) warned supporters at a recent fundraiser at his home that a “civil war” would break out or that people would get shot if the government continued to target conservatives, according to audio of the event obtained by the Messenger, which first reported the remarks...
entrained at a station.
Where do you weigh a pie?
Somewhere over the rainbow.
In reality all the 'Oath Keepers' and 'Three Percenters' and 'Proud Boys' have done nothing.
If there was any substance to their talk then there would already be resistance movements in the Rockies and Appalachia and terrorist attacks on the big cities.
As indeed does HMT.