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The July 20th by-elections – latest betting – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,087
edited July 2023 in General
imageThe July 20th by-elections – latest betting – politicalbetting.com

As can be seen the money is going on the LDs to take Mid Bedfordshire and Somerton with LAB the easy winners in BoJo’s old seat of Uxbridge.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,036
    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂
  • eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sean_F said:

    I can't believe the government would be so stupid as to freeze public sector pay (well maybe I could) next year. Their employees would not stand for it, and nor should they stand for it.

    Indeed, instead of a wage freeze the government needs to look at mass layoffs in order to increase pay. The public sector is unproductive and a major reason for it is that it is completely bloated. Sacking 20% of public sector employees would free up labour supply in the private sector, enable pay rises for the remaining 80% and allow for a big reduction in spending. I doubt anyone would notice either if the cuts were made among the army of do nothing paper shufflers.
    Nice try, but no.

    https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-nhs

    NHS admin is about 2 percent of the whole budget.

    NHS managers are about 3 percent of the workforce.

    Even if you think those numbers are too narrowly drawn, the idea that there are 20% easy cuts is for the birds. As well as pretty insulting to all the people who have made Sophie's Choice cuts rather than harvest all this supposed low hanging fruit.
    The public sector has been subjected to real cuts now for 13 years. There really is nothing anywhere left to cut.

    You can always find somewhere to cut — maybe the hereditary Lords? — but, yes, indeed. It is an incoherent fantasy that the public sector can be repeatedly cut back without the loss of public services.
    Indeed, and the loss of some 'public services' is what we should welcome.

    The Government needs to pick some things it currently asks public sector employees to do, which its no longer going to ask them to do. At that point you can have cuts. I have my own ideas, I'm sure others have others.

    Simply saying "cuts" without actually cutting anything isn't going to work though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    This seems about right still. Selby looking tougher to hold in present circumstances even versus when it was first called.

    I know there was that bad interview for the LD candidate in Somerton, but that sort of thing is survivable.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,588
    Kadyrov remains behind Putin. Mentions sending forces out too. If Prigozhin has ruF ahead and the Chechens behind I think he won't succeed.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    10K in this morning
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Putin last year: Ukraine's army should lay down its weapons and greet Russian forces as liberators

    Putin today: the prisoners I pardoned so they could join my former caterer's militia should please stop participating in his armed uprising against my defense ministry


    For those of you new to this media environment. The main sources of info are an army that lies about everything; a warlord who owns an infamous troll factory and lied about it for years; and the Kremlin. And Russia destroyed the media, so there aren't any good independent sources

    https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1672528720261677056?cxt=HHwWgICw_c6AgrYuAAAA
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,042
    edited June 2023
    deleted
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,042
    edited June 2023
    Wagner just shot down a Russian AN-26 military transport plane...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,596
    Pulpstar said:

    Kadyrov remains behind Putin. Mentions sending forces out too. If Prigozhin has ruF ahead and the Chechens behind I think he won't succeed.

    They’re 100% behind the leaders until they aren’t.

    Unless we see actual military efforts taking place to properly impede Wagner then no-one is resisting them currently.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,814

    Wagner just shot down a Russian AN-26 military transport plane...

    Two of them, or Vanilla doing what it does best?
  • Wagner just shot down a Russian AN-26 military transport plane...

    Regardless of who wins this coup, scorpions taking out other scorpions means fewer scorpions to fight Ukrainians ...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Wasn't Wagner pretty darn small as an operating force until last year, with the mass recruitment from prisons and the like? How many are committed to being a personal army I wonder (mercenary force seems a bit off as a descriptor).
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,042
    ydoethur said:

    Wagner just shot down a Russian AN-26 military transport plane...

    Two of them, or Vanilla doing what it does best?
    A ripple in the Vanilla....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Scott_xP said:

    @MikeGapes
    Have Corbyn and his friends called on both sides to Stop the War in Russia yet ?

    And to think, if only NATO hadn't meddled none of this would be happening. Why couldn't NATO just force Ukraine to join the Russian sphere prior to the invasion, or let them be conquered, then the people of Rostov would be in peace right now.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,388

    ydoethur said:

    Wagner just shot down a Russian AN-26 military transport plane...

    Two of them, or Vanilla doing what it does best?
    A ripple in the Vanilla....
    A raspberry ripple?
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,900
    edited June 2023

    Wagner just shot down a Russian AN-26 military transport plane...

    This sounds less good. A palace coup with a Wagner-installed puppet would be better than a civil war.

    Where was this reported as happening ? If it was in or around Ukraine rather than South of Moscow it might be less notable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Miklosvar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
    I'm just praying for as much damage to the Russian state as possible without nukes getting messed around with.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,704
    edited June 2023

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    It’s being led by the competent part of the Russian “Army” (I.e. Wagner) - so I give it a lot better chance than Turkey..
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,587
    Miklosvar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
    Right, because a perfect description of the war so far has been "Mr Nice Guy".
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,526
    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,892
    Miklosvar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
    No, because whoever is in charge faces the same constraints, and Prigozhin has already demolished the rationale for the war.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,892
    Pulpstar said:

    Kadyrov remains behind Putin. Mentions sending forces out too. If Prigozhin has ruF ahead and the Chechens behind I think he won't succeed.

    There are definitely large parts of the Russian elite that are fed up with Kadyrov, so him backing Putin might tempt them to jump the other way.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 62,483
    Chechen leader says forces ready to help Putin
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186

    Carnyx said:

    Lol, Kemi whining about ‘disinformation’ after literally mentioning a ‘pupil who identifies as a cat’ in her letter to OFSTED. Who’s disinforming who?

    https://twitter.com/mrjohnnicolson/status/1672511202688221184?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    I like Mr Nicholson's suggestion she's adopted the dead cat strategy. Rather apt.
    It's not a spoof story. A teacher called a child despicable and suggested they go to a different school because they had a binary view on sex. The cat element is a red herring.
    Quite so.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,612
    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    I hope you and your pal with the UJs didn’t have too much of the piss ripped out of you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    Conference? Isn't this a strange time of year for a conference?
    Delayed from March.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,113
    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    will be free tickets being handed out by now to try and make it a bit less embarrassing. They should have gone for backroom of a pub given their last turnout in a massive hall. The glory days are gone for this bunch of grifters, down to delusions of grandeur now. We need a coup in Scotland.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,612
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    Conference? Isn't this a strange time of year for a conference?
    It’s not an ‘SNP’ conference per se but a convention on independence.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186

    Chechen leader says forces ready to help Putin

    Say what you like about Kadyrov, and if you're Chechen you can't, but he knows who his daddy is.



  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,596

    Miklosvar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
    I doubt it. I think Wagner want out of Ukraine, they don't want to be fighting Western-backed troops, they want to fight people they can bully.

    Interesting that Prigozhin has basically called out the war in Ukraine as unnecessary, undermined the case for it and said that it was all Shoigu's fault the war started. That doesn't sound like someone in a hurry to get back to having his men killed in Ukraine again. See analysis at 9:11am here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-66006142
    Yep, this fundamentally isn’t starting over a spat between personalities. It’s someone trying to draw the line under the Ukraine misadventure.

    That’s not suggesting Prigozhin is a hero or a nice man. The world will not be especially safe with him and his buddies in charge. But it will mark a change in Ukraine.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,919

    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien
    ·
    40m
    Replying to
    @PhillipsPOBrien
    To understand what Prigozhin has done in seizing control of Rostov and Voronezh, think of him as the Royal Navy in the Mediterranean in 1800, and the Russian army in Ukraine is Napoleon’s army in Egypt.


    Phillips P. OBrien
    @PhillipsPOBrien
    ·
    35m
    Replying to
    @PhillipsPOBrien
    In other words, the Russian army can’t function if Prigozhin won’t let it, it needs the supply routes working. Napoleon won all the battles in Egypt but had to pull out because he could not keep the supply routes open
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,113
    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    Conference? Isn't this a strange time of year for a conference?
    Delayed from March.
    How it can be called a conference is a laugh, some clowns stating they have no clue other than begging Wm and much prefer to stay on the gravy train that actually try to get anywhere, then a collection tin at the door to help with the legal bills incoming. Assuming their are still some idiots who would trust them with as much as a brass farthing.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,042

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    Conference? Isn't this a strange time of year for a conference?
    It’s not an ‘SNP’ conference per se but a convention on independence.
    A gathering of the (camper) vans?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Re: Russia

    How bad could this get?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,526
    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    Conference? Isn't this a strange time of year for a conference?
    They are discussing their new improved plan for independence….which sounds very much like the old plan. See Wings for details ( for the tiny handful still interested).
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Ran 10K this morning, my longest run in a year. Not too hot.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,587
    ping said:

    Re: Russia

    How bad could this get?

    Two rival groups of gangster/nutcases, angry at both each other and the rest of the world, each controlling part of the former Soviet nuclear arsenal. The bad outcomes are pretty bad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Any word from Shoigu?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,900
    edited June 2023
    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,596
    edited June 2023
    ping said:

    Re: Russia

    How bad could this get?

    Well I guess the 2 worst case scenarios are 1) Putin consolidates his power but at the expense of any trust he has for any followers and his own sanity and goes cuckoo-nuts with the nuke button or 2) nuclear civil war in Russia with potential to spill out into a wider conflagration. But we’re not anywhere near either of those yet.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,919
    kle4 said:

    Any word from Shoigu?

    "Everything is fine and our glorious and well-armed military continue to make fantastic gains in Ukraine."
  • Ran 10K this morning, my longest run in a year. Not too hot.

    Another 10k, or the one you told us about earlier?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    malcolmg said:

    kle4 said:

    Farooq said:

    DavidL said:

    Very small crowd floating about in front of the Caird Hall this morning for the SNP conference. A couple of people there with Union Jacks trying to wind them up but the SNiPs look like they can’t be bothered.

    Conference? Isn't this a strange time of year for a conference?
    Delayed from March.
    How it can be called a conference is a laugh, some clowns stating they have no clue other than begging Wm and much prefer to stay on the gravy train that actually try to get anywhere, then a collection tin at the door to help with the legal bills incoming. Assuming their are still some idiots who would trust them with as much as a brass farthing.
    I for one heartedly endorse the conference then.
  • That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,900
    edited June 2023

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,287
    Looking positively.
    (I'm so perky I get on my own nerves).
    This is the beginning of the end of the War in Ukraine I think.
    It may be the start of one in Russia, mind.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,892
    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855

    Miklosvar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
    Right, because a perfect description of the war so far has been "Mr Nice Guy".
    Um, that was my point. It could easily get even worse.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,571
    ping said:

    Re: Russia

    How bad could this get?

    As bad as you can imagine.
    At the moment, anything is possible - apart from a transition to democracy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,571
    If you're curious how Wagner are managing to down VKS assets, here you go; a Pantsir-S(1), w/ the acquisition radar of the 72V6-series combat vehicle active. Can also see a Strela-10 TELAR, although doesn't look like it's being used.

    Plus tanks, technicals, supply trucks, etc.

    https://twitter.com/CalibreObscura/status/1672534220122599424
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,029
    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
    Right, because a perfect description of the war so far has been "Mr Nice Guy".
    Um, that was my point. It could easily get even worse.
    Well, shoot a dictator from time to time "to encourage the others"
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,596

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Yep, he’s gone full-coup.
  • That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,852
    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    Actually this explains the Russian trolls

    They aren’t here to convince us that Woke Trans Gay NATO is a threat to our Vital Essence.

    They are here to get timing information as to when Russia should launch the Next Big Stupidity.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,615
    Will the Belorussians fighting in Ukraine return to their homeland?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Putin talked about the Fatherland - different translation choices or do Russians use both Fatherland and Motherland?
  • That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    But there's also the matter of nuclear weapons.

    And also big conventional forces. They may be full out of date equipment, but there's tons of them.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Yep, he’s gone full-coup.
    One correspondent was saying it should all be over by Monday. I think we can hope it lasts just a bit longer than that.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,612
    Scott_xP said:

    @rogerlwhite
    Is it true that leader of the Albagner Group Alex (Russia Today) Salmond is marching with his forces on Dundee today to topple the leader of the Scottish government, hunkered down with his loyal followers in the Caird Hall?

    This actually is the Caird Hall in a previous incarnation.
    Rumours of the Albanians in any way matching the murderous efficiency of the Wagner Group are much exaggerated


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,852
    ping said:

    Re: Russia

    How bad could this get?

    Putin falls.

    Boris Johnson rides a tidal wave of “I fucking told you” back to No 10….

    That’s the 10/10

    At 9 we have Global Nuclear War
    At 8…
  • TheshardTheshard Posts: 50

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761

    Ran 10K this morning, my longest run in a year. Not too hot.

    Another 10k, or the one you told us about earlier?
    Same one as earlier
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,113
    Scott_xP said:

    @rogerlwhite
    Is it true that leader of the Albagner Group Alex (Russia Today) Salmond is marching with his forces on Dundee today to topple the leader of the Scottish government, hunkered down with his loyal followers in the Caird Hall?

    Trying to be funny from a foreign country does not work sunshine. Hope you have a day job given youar eabout as funny as a hole in the head.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Cicero said:

    Miklosvar said:

    Miklosvar said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    A bad coup is one that is going to be put down overnight like Turkey 2016.

    I'm wondering how good the coup is going to get. 😂
    If Wagner takes over in Ukraine its watchword will be: No more Mr Nice Guy. Careful what you wish for.
    Right, because a perfect description of the war so far has been "Mr Nice Guy".
    Um, that was my point. It could easily get even worse.
    Well, shoot a dictator from time to time "to encourage the others"
    Genuinely might be true - too many dictatorial regimes are unfortunately stable. Dictators live in constant fear of losing their power - that's the nature of the game - but few seem to face serious actual threat, so perhaps they are getting a bit comfortable.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,113

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    But there's also the matter of nuclear weapons.

    And also big conventional forces. They may be full out of date equipment, but there's tons of them.
    Useless though, they would struggle to beat a carpet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    Ah, so a military mutiny is of no consequence so long as it is over quickly, right. If 20k Ukrainian troops rose up against the military high command that would be of no consequence too?

    No need to answer.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,852
    Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    Welcome. The Questions -

    1) is pineapple on pizza a war crime?
    2) an airliner crashes on the Ukraine/Republic of China border. On which side do you bury the survivors?
    3) which is more legendary - @TSE’s modesty or the quietness of his taste in shoes?
  • CorrectHorseBatCorrectHorseBat Posts: 1,761
    Oh great Malcomg is back, what a waste of space
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,892
    edited June 2023
    kle4 said:

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Putin talked about the Fatherland - different translation choices or do Russians use both Fatherland and Motherland?
    Yes they do use both: otechestvo vs rodina.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,368

    ping said:

    Re: Russia

    How bad could this get?

    Two rival groups of gangster/nutcases, angry at both each other and the rest of the world, each controlling part of the former Soviet nuclear arsenal. The bad outcomes are pretty bad.
    Bad for Russia yes. Bad for the rest of us? Not so much. I’d rather have them pointing nukes at each other than at Ukraine.

    Some useful tips for Trump if he loses in 2024. To quote crocodile Dundee, “mate, that ain’t a coup. This is a coup”. GOP should start hiring convicts into a private militia.
  • That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    But there's also the matter of nuclear weapons.

    And also big conventional forces. They may be full out of date equipment, but there's tons of them.
    Oh big frigging deal about nuclear weapons, so what? That's all apologists for Russia every bring up, nukes, nukes, nukes. Yes, many nations have nukes, including us, so they're not going to be used against the West as we'd destroy them if they did.

    Conventional forces - yes they have these. So if they're using them on each other that's better than using them on Ukrainians.

    Either way, a civil war or coup is better than Putin continuing as a dictator invading other nations.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186

    kle4 said:

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Putin talked about the Fatherland - different translation choices or do Russians use both Fatherland and Motherland?
    Yes they do use both: otechestvo vs rodina.
    Interesting. I had no idea Russia as a state was so open to gender fluidity.
  • TheshardTheshard Posts: 50
    This fron Will Schryver. Please guys dont get too excited.

    Well that was the most lame attempt at a coup d'etat I've ever seen. A couple old tanks and a couple dozen trucks carrying a couple hundred disheveled "soldiers" in ill-fitting uniforms. The modest parade was escorted by Rosgvardia into Rostov; Prigozhin pretended to "occupy" the city, then he had a chat with a couple generals, after which he and his motley group of "insurrectionists" drove away again. Now Putin says they're all in VERY big trouble and will be dealt with promptly and harshly. That's it, folks. Show's over. We will now resume the war where we left off a few hours ago.

    8:44 AM · Jun 24, 2023

    ·

    70.7K

    https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1672510901256171520?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,618

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Yep, he’s gone full-coup.
    Amazing how career paths can develop. He used to be a chef.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,814
    edited June 2023
    Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    You think Putin’s in so much trouble he won’t make it to Monday? :hushed:
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,621
    kle4 said:

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Putin talked about the Fatherland - different translation choices or do Russians use both Fatherland and Motherland?
    Afaik it's always been "mother Russia"

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,368

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    But there's also the matter of nuclear weapons.

    And also big conventional forces. They may be full out of date equipment, but there's tons of them.
    The more chaos, the more chance of them rotting in their siloes unmaintained. And the more chances of Western intelligence penetration too.

    As has been commented up thread, better the devil you don’t know.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,113

    Oh great Malcomg is back, what a waste of space

    Dumbo opines
  • Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    Ah we've been expecting you.

    What's going to be over by the end of the weekend? Putin's regime?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,515
    Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    Can you give us any pointers as to the outcome?

    The highway of death on the M4 or Swan Lake?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,330
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    Lol, Kemi whining about ‘disinformation’ after literally mentioning a ‘pupil who identifies as a cat’ in her letter to OFSTED. Who’s disinforming who?

    https://twitter.com/mrjohnnicolson/status/1672511202688221184?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    I like Mr Nicholson's suggestion she's adopted the dead cat strategy. Rather apt.
    It's not a spoof story. A teacher called a child despicable and suggested they go to a different school because they had a binary view on sex. The cat element is a red herring.
    Quite so.
    Don't tell us; tell Kemi. She's the one who mentioned the cat.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,368
    ydoethur said:

    Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    You think Putin’s in so much trouble he won’t make it to Monday? :hushed:
    Is the shard our latest Saturday visitor? Tough gig this morning. Still, good use of google to check out London landmarks for a user name.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,936
    GIN1138 said:

    Is Mike on holiday again (wondering just how bad the Russian coup is going to get) ? 😂

    I’m on holiday since yesterday until the start of July.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    edited June 2023
    kinabalu said:

    @wartranslated
    ❗️Prigozhin audio message 10:19AM BST - "no one will surrender to the demands of the President":

    "Regarding the betrayal of the Motherland, the President is deeply mistaken. We’re patriots of our Motherland. We fought and we are fighting, all fighters of PMC Wagner. And no one is going to surrender to the demands of the President, FSB, or anyone else. Because we don’t want the country to live further in corruption lies, and bureaucracy.

    When we fought in Africa, we were told that we needed Africa, and then they dumped it, because they stole all the money that was meant to come for help.

    When we were told we are fighting with Ukraine, we went and fought. But it turned out that the ammo, weapons, all money put towards this were also being stolen, while officials are sitting and saving them for themselves for an incident that happened today, when someone is going towards Moscow."

    Now they are not saving anything, they are striking us with planes and helicopters at the columns with civilians. And they hit civilians because they’re missing. And they hit anywhere they can.

    Thus, we are the patriots, but those resisting us today are those who gathered around scumbags.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672536701997072384

    Yep, he’s gone full-coup.
    Amazing how career paths can develop. He used to be a chef.
    Well, before that he was a violent criminal thug, so it is more of returning full circle, just grander in scale.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    Theshard said:

    This fron Will Schryver. Please guys dont get too excited.

    Well that was the most lame attempt at a coup d'etat I've ever seen. A couple old tanks and a couple dozen trucks carrying a couple hundred disheveled "soldiers" in ill-fitting uniforms. The modest parade was escorted by Rosgvardia into Rostov; Prigozhin pretended to "occupy" the city, then he had a chat with a couple generals, after which he and his motley group of "insurrectionists" drove away again. Now Putin says they're all in VERY big trouble and will be dealt with promptly and harshly. That's it, folks. Show's over. We will now resume the war where we left off a few hours ago.

    8:44 AM · Jun 24, 2023

    ·

    70.7K

    https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1672510901256171520?s=20

    After a failed insurrection, tovarischsch, the insurrectionists do not generally get to "drive away again."
  • TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    You think Putin’s in so much trouble he won’t make it to Monday? :hushed:
    Is the shard our latest Saturday visitor? Tough gig this morning. Still, good use of google to check out London landmarks for a user name.
    Yes but starting with Will Schryver as a "source"?

    They've clearly not sent us their best operator this weekend.
  • I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.

    A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,814
    Theshard said:

    This fron Will Schryver. Please guys dont get too excited.

    Well that was the most lame attempt at a coup d'etat I've ever seen. A couple old tanks and a couple dozen trucks carrying a couple hundred disheveled "soldiers" in ill-fitting uniforms. The modest parade was escorted by Rosgvardia into Rostov; Prigozhin pretended to "occupy" the city, then he had a chat with a couple generals, after which he and his motley group of "insurrectionists" drove away again. Now Putin says they're all in VERY big trouble and will be dealt with promptly and harshly. That's it, folks. Show's over. We will now resume the war where we left off a few hours ago.

    8:44 AM · Jun 24, 2023

    ·

    70.7K

    https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1672510901256171520?s=20

    How can we not get excited? Trolling Russian trolls is a weekly high spot on PB. Especially when their employer has just launched his own three day SMO.
  • MiklosvarMiklosvar Posts: 1,855
    TimS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Theshard said:

    That shoot-down sounds more worrying, if that's right, because as i understand it Voronezh is nearer Moscow than Ukraine.

    Let's hope for a more peaceful transfer of power, because in a country as vast and well-armed as Russia, even with thugs like Progozhin, that would be preferable.

    A transfer of power is ideal yes, but a few dead scorpions along the way isn't the worst thing in the world to undermine any potential for continued war effort afterwards.

    Especially if its valuable military hardware that is destroyed, with no dead Ukrainians on either side of the conflict.
    It depends, though, because the dynamics of these thing can be very hard to control once they get underway.

    It could be either a very quick palace coup, or a long and bloody civil conflict. To be honest I think those two options are the most likely.
    Win/win either way then.

    A quick palace coup is great, get rid of Putin.

    A long and bloody civil conflict is great. Russians fighting Russians is infinitely better than Russians fighting Ukrainians.
    Really i think you guys are getting too excited by this. I imagine this will all be over by the end of the weekend.
    You think Putin’s in so much trouble he won’t make it to Monday? :hushed:
    Is the shard our latest Saturday visitor? Tough gig this morning. Still, good use of google to check out London landmarks for a user name.
    Even taller than Salisbury Cathedral.
  • I think the wishes for chaos in Russia are unwise.

    A country as vast and well-armed as that does not spiral into chaos without it affecting large areas of the rest of the world, for diverse, military, migratory , and economic reasons. It wouldn't be something we could just cheerfully watch from our armchairs.

    Hopefully there will be a full blown civil war and the country will be less vast and less well armed by the end of it.
  • TheshardTheshard Posts: 50
    Even cnn says Ukraines counteroffensive is going poorly. This is a big distraction from the total slaughter of ukrainian men on the front line.

    Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN. The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of them said

    4:05 PM · Jun 22, 2023

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    https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1671897144301854721?s=20

  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,596
    Theshard said:

    This fron Will Schryver. Please guys dont get too excited.

    Well that was the most lame attempt at a coup d'etat I've ever seen. A couple old tanks and a couple dozen trucks carrying a couple hundred disheveled "soldiers" in ill-fitting uniforms. The modest parade was escorted by Rosgvardia into Rostov; Prigozhin pretended to "occupy" the city, then he had a chat with a couple generals, after which he and his motley group of "insurrectionists" drove away again. Now Putin says they're all in VERY big trouble and will be dealt with promptly and harshly. That's it, folks. Show's over. We will now resume the war where we left off a few hours ago.

    8:44 AM · Jun 24, 2023

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    https://twitter.com/imetatronink/status/1672510901256171520?s=20

    Are you that guy who used to work for Saddam?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,186
    Worth remembering that not that long ago Prigozhin used to deny even running Wagner, and sued people who said so.

    His ambitions and lack of willingness to remain in the shadows have certainly altered.
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