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Another demonstration of Tory ruthlessness – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,982
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can't we just sanction Steve Bray's benefits and make him get a job?

    I believe he gets donations.
    From people who don't know him or who've never met him or don't have to work near him.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited October 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meet the new cabinet.
    Not quite as bad as the old cabinet.

    If Sunak’s pitch is merely “you should have seen the last lot…”, this story isn’t going to end well.
    Some BoZo retreads with a sprinkling of Truss acolytes.

    Hardly inspiring
    Being blunt - there actually isn't that much talent within the Parliamentary Tory party. It's either burnt out, not good or simply doesn't exist.

    Remember my continual statement - you can get more money and probably do more good well away from politics.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    edited October 2022
    RH1992 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Braverman at HS is the price of Boris not being PM, to my mind it's a small one.

    Not when she tanks trade deals because it might make it easier for foreigners to come to work here, even though we need it.
    Eh, the deal that was being talked about basically extended the working holiday visa scheme that we have with Australia and NZ to India, that strikes me as a poor idea as it's basically a 3 year work permit with no questions asked for under 35s. You can count in the millions per year the number of under 35 year old Indians who would take advantage of that scheme, unlike Australia and NZ where it's a few thousand per year.

    I think she was right to oppose the deal because the UK doesn't have the capacity to add 1.5-2m Indian young people per year for three years and then countless overstayers.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    edited October 2022
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meet the new cabinet.
    Not quite as bad as the old cabinet.

    If Sunak’s pitch is merely “you should have seen the last lot…”, this story isn’t going to end well.
    Some BoZo retreads with a sprinkling of Truss acolytes.

    Hardly inspiring
    Being blunt - there actually isn't that much talent within the Parliamentary Tory party. It's either burnt out or not great.
    Or, being charitable, not had enough time to develop. Truss and Sunak were promoted to Cabinet in short time, but that was still 4 years - so a large number of 2019 intake are a bit too soon, and even 2017 intake would be swift.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    edited October 2022
    So the big question remains . Will the stain on humanity get HS with gassing refugees thrown in to keep her extra happy !
  • Taz said:

    Is Sunak really not going to give Javid a proper job? That would seem very stupid.

    I can't say I've ever been bowled over by Javid, to be honest.
    Howzat ?
    Can I have a DRS review please.
  • Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?
  • Zahawi appointed Party Chairman.....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    No10 confirms Nadhim Zahawi is party chairman
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,419
    edited October 2022
    I would have thought Govey would have got chairman of the parties ;-)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited October 2022
    RH1992 said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Nigelb said:

    Fifth education secretary since July...

    Quite the stat.

    I'm imagining one of those early years maths books where instead of pictures of chickens, houses, cakes and the like, you get to learn all your basic addition and subtraction with pictures of 2022 education secretaries.
    Five Education Secretaries
    Four Chancellors
    Three Prime Ministers
    Two Monarchs
    One COP26 President
    As Wallace is staying we can now amend this to

    Five Education Secretaries
    Four Chancellors
    Three Prime Ministers
    Two Monarchs
    and One Def-ence Sec-re-ta-ry.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,982
    MaxPB said:

    RH1992 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Braverman at HS is the price of Boris not being PM, to my mind it's a small one.

    Not when she tanks trade deals because it might make it easier for foreigners to come to work here, even though we need it.
    Eh, the deal that was being talked about basically extended the working holiday visa scheme that we have with Australia and NZ to India, that strikes me as a poor idea as it's basically a 3 year work permit with no questions asked for under 35s. You can count in the millions per year the number of under 35 year old Indians who would take advantage of that scheme, unlike Australia and NZ where it's a few thousand per year.

    I think she was right to oppose the deal because the UK doesn't have the capacity to add 1.5-2m Indian young people per year for three years and then countless overstayers.
    Yes, that's my view too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited October 2022
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Can Sky News make it through 5 mins without banging on about race and gender of make up of the cabinet.

    No woman in a Great Office is at risk, another reason to plump for Braverman.
    There are no good reasons to plump for Braverman.
    It would be genuinely disappointing to see him put her back at the HO.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    nico679 said:

    So the big question remains . Will the stain on humanity get HS with gassing refugees thrown in to keep her extra happy !

    The delay on announcing that big job when the others have been done makes me think some negotiations are going on behind the scene - Shapps wants something good if he is going to be shifted, with Braverman being offered alternatives.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    Given that the party is going to fragment appointing Zahawi to oversee its demise seems appropriate enough
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    🚨 Nadhim Zahawi has been appointed as Minister without Portfolio

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1584931875965251585

    Now that is interesting. Under at least Johnson and Truss that role was held by Party Chairman, so a pretty minor role despite being a Cabinet post.
    So we have Williamson and Zahawi, two slimeballs employed in roles where they are free to go around slimeballing.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Seen better cabinets at MFI...
  • kle4 said:

    nico679 said:

    So the big question remains . Will the stain on humanity get HS with gassing refugees thrown in to keep her extra happy !

    The delay on announcing that big job when the others have been done makes me think some negotiations are going on behind the scene - Shapps wants something good if he is going to be shifted, with Braverman being offered alternatives.
    I forgot Mr Green hadn't been given his marching orders.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    Oliver Dowden becomes Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Scott_xP said:

    No10 confirms Nadhim Zahawi is party chairman

    Perfect for him. He's a ray of sunshine who starts each day anew, unencumbered by all that has gone before.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    What does the Chancellor the Duchy of Lancaster do again? Generally get to lead on constitutional issues or something, or pretty much anything the PM wants?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    Does Rish intend having any women in his cabinet?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,780

    I really don't like repeating myself, but as many are missing the point, here goes:

    Braverman resigned because she admitted breaking the Ministerial Code. She should not be appointed to anything until she has 'served her time'. It is nothing to do with her political positions.

    If Sunak gives her a job, it shows that he doesn't care much about breaches of the Ministerial Code.

    Remind me, which other recent PM was indifferent to the edicts of the Ministerial Code?

    It's kind of cute that people think that's why she resigned.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,231
    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I thought it was the return of Alastair Meek's much vaunted 'dull competence'. Don't tell me Richard will have to put down his champagne glass?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    So he has two ministers for busybodying around the Cabinet Office: Dowden and Zahawi
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,764
    Suella is going to be back as HS, I feel like it’s nailed on now Dowden is Duchy of Lancaster…
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    Driver said:

    I really don't like repeating myself, but as many are missing the point, here goes:

    Braverman resigned because she admitted breaking the Ministerial Code. She should not be appointed to anything until she has 'served her time'. It is nothing to do with her political positions.

    If Sunak gives her a job, it shows that he doesn't care much about breaches of the Ministerial Code.

    Remind me, which other recent PM was indifferent to the edicts of the Ministerial Code?

    It's kind of cute that people think that's why she resigned.
    That not being her policy reason for resigning does not change that it was her official reason for resigning, and as such should rule her out of a future appointment so soon.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I suspect one of the reasons we have all been relieved at Sunak's elevation is that compared to his immediate predecessors he appears a beacon of competence.

    Appointing Braverman confirms it was all smoke and mirrors after all. Let's hope he desists!
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,314
    Driver said:

    I really don't like repeating myself, but as many are missing the point, here goes:

    Braverman resigned because she admitted breaking the Ministerial Code. She should not be appointed to anything until she has 'served her time'. It is nothing to do with her political positions.

    If Sunak gives her a job, it shows that he doesn't care much about breaches of the Ministerial Code.

    Remind me, which other recent PM was indifferent to the edicts of the Ministerial Code?

    It's kind of cute that people think that's why she resigned.
    It's what she said in her resignation letter. Should I assume she's lying? Doesn't make it any better, does it?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,780
    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Who would you have appointed instead?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    Cabinet of all the people who used to be in the cabinet, mostly in the same jobs they used to have.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1584934858429980673
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    V odd that we have had all the great offices of state announced except Home...

    Has the new government of integrity's plan to reappoint Suella Braverman hit some Probity and Ethics trouble?

    https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1584934801102213120
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Or an IKEA cabinet being rebuilt out of the remains of two smashed ones.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    I was never particularly bothered about immigration and the point of the working holiday visa is that it's still a work permit based scheme and comes with no right to welfare for the three years and it then requires sponsorship to renew for a further three years, that's completely different to free movement, the government still has a big lever to pull on if it doesn't think it's good for the economy or a subset of workers are seeing wage deflation.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,780
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    The point is to treat people from all countries fairly, rather than giving special privileges to people from 26 specific countries for no rational reason.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    Truss's Cabinet was not, on the face of it, terrible in most respects, though much of it was inexperienced. But there were a few complete duffers, and Sunak needs to avoid those like the plague.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    I wonder if Gove is off to Health…
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,982
    Are Braverman and Gove playing best of three for HS?
  • I wonder if Gove is off to Health…

    Just don't let him near the pharmacies.....
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,200
    edited October 2022

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I suspect one of the reasons we have all been relieved at Sunak's elevation is that compared to his immediate predecessors he appears a beacon of competence.

    Appointing Braverman confirms it was all smoke and mirrors after all. Let's hope he desists!
    He could say you broke the code even technically and it would not look good to put you back as HS .

    Not sure why she should expect her old job back .
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    How much sympathy, if any, do you have for Liz Truss?

    A great deal: 4%
    Some: 13%
    Not very much: 23%
    None at all: 53%

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2022/10/25/f25a0/3 https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1584935314304311298/photo/1
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,764
    Kemi goes in
  • Scott_xP said:

    🚨 Nadhim Zahawi has been appointed as Minister without Portfolio

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1584931875965251585

    I love that title. It summons up an image of a disorganised overpromoted fool who has mislaid his folder. Oh, actually....
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    The point is to treat people from all countries fairly, rather than giving special privileges to people from 26 specific countries for no rational reason.
    Oh that was the point all along 🤭
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,668
    I am frankly astonished that a Conservative Cabinet has “disappointed” PB-ers who would never in a thousand years vote Conservative
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited October 2022
    Badenoch and Donelan in now. Hope there's some good roles for women in the cabinet as it's been a bit man heavy so far.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,534
    edited October 2022

    Chuckle: I tried that Bing map to see what they have to say about my neighborhood -- and was amused to see that they did not have a label on the growing Google operation here, though there are small labels on "Buildings A, B, and C". Google's operation in Kirkland is recent, so the map may just not have been updated in the last few years.

    (I haven't decided whether the local Google operation is parasitic or symbiotic. If they have done much for the community here other than building a playground, I haven't heard about it.)

    Microsofties (ones still on the payroll/bonus scheme anyway) rather notorious in Seattle for volunteering for wide variety of good causes & civic endeavors . . . then mostly being AWOL.

    In contrast to Boeing (old-school pre-bean counter anyway) before "top" management declared war on Puget Sound . . . and started it's notorious nose-diving, fiscally AND aeronautically.

    Addendum - Local Amazonians so far mostly following Microsoft & Google lack-of-civic-engagement policy.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    I was never likely to approve of a bunch of Tories being appointed to Cabinet, so I'm going to wait to pass judgement on what they actually do, rather than who they are. Reckon Cleverly is very lucky to keep his exalted position, though.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    nico679 said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I suspect one of the reasons we have all been relieved at Sunak's elevation is that compared to his immediate predecessors he appears a beacon of competence.

    Appointing Braverman confirms it was all smoke and mirrors after all. Let's hope he desists!
    He could say you broke the code even technically and it would not look good to put you back as HS .

    Not sure why she should expect her old job back .
    Because she has no shame?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited October 2022

    Driver said:

    I really don't like repeating myself, but as many are missing the point, here goes:

    Braverman resigned because she admitted breaking the Ministerial Code. She should not be appointed to anything until she has 'served her time'. It is nothing to do with her political positions.

    If Sunak gives her a job, it shows that he doesn't care much about breaches of the Ministerial Code.

    Remind me, which other recent PM was indifferent to the edicts of the Ministerial Code?

    It's kind of cute that people think that's why she resigned.
    It's what she said in her resignation letter. Should I assume she's lying? Doesn't make it any better, does it?
    That's true. "I have made a mistake and when you make a mistake a serious politician resigns" ... was her letter.
  • ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I thought it was the return of Alastair Meek's much vaunted 'dull competence'. Don't tell me Richard will have to put down his champagne glass?
    Whatever happens, Sunak is on track to not be as bad a politician as Truss, or as bad a person as Johnson, or as ineffective a PM as May.

    The space labelled "much better than his predecessors without being that good" is awfully big.
  • Turns on Sky....and they are prattling on about gender AGAIN....
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can't we just sanction Steve Bray's benefits and make him get a job?

    I believe he gets donations.
    Like that Femi clown and other ‘activists’.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:

    👀 Hearing that Gavin Willimson, who has been at Sunak’s side throughout the summer, will make a return to front-line politics as minister without portfolio (in the cabinet office).

    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1584931269452115970

    He's bounced back. People do.


  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,764
    BBC all over the shop. Suggesting Penny as transport secretary which is a “poisoned chalice” and a “demotion”? Do they actually understand what leader of the HoC does? (hint: it’s not much!)
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Leon said:

    I am frankly astonished that a Conservative Cabinet has “disappointed” PB-ers who would never in a thousand years vote Conservative

    It's doubly astonishing considering the undoubted intellectual titans who reside on the opposition benches.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    GIN1138 said:

    Does Rish intend having any women in his cabinet?

    Sounds like Sky News there.
  • Plenty of criticism that the Labour frontbench is inexperienced / weak. I’d counter this by asking - how ’strong’ can shadow ministers be perceived if they’ve been out of Government for 12 years? There’s not really much of a chance to accurately compare, eg, Reeves as a hypothetical Chancellor to the actual ones we’ve had since 2010 (Osbourne, Hammond, Javid, Sunak, Zahawi, Kwarteng, Hunt)

    Although, by virtue of her doing nothing she’s probably better than a couple of those by default.

    It doesn’t really seem the most accurate yardstick given the criteria for whether someone is a ‘heavyweight’ or not seems a lot more subjective than those putting forward the argument make it out to be.

    Furthermore, we’ve had a hell of a lot of Tory ministers in recent years that have made pretty clear cockups. Notwithstanding your Hancock type scandals.

    Lastly, I think it’s fair to say that media scrutiny is far higher on the minutiae in the social media age. Someone like Norman Lamont might have been castigated far more in the era of twitter. The image of a ‘competent administator’ would be buttressed by how much less limelight there was in say, 1999, on the average minister in general.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,764
    It is very very weird to leave announcing HS this late.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Or an IKEA cabinet being rebuilt out of the remains of two smashed ones.
    one or two loose screws. And one odd shaped thingyabit it says should have been in the bag you didn’t get, now it’s altogether you don’t understand what purpose it was supposed to have.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,583
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    Again, this is the make-up-your-mind fallacy. There will be diverse opinons within a group, many of which are consisyent over time. This does not equate to a single un-made-up mimd.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    Leon said:

    I am frankly astonished that a Conservative Cabinet has “disappointed” PB-ers who would never in a thousand years vote Conservative

    Voted Conservative in 2017, and in the European Elections in 2019 (which is more than most Tory members did).

    With Braverman its about her, not what she wants to do - not liking the policy is a given.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    edited October 2022
    Leon said:

    I am frankly astonished that a Conservative Cabinet has “disappointed” PB-ers who would never in a thousand years vote Conservative

    So you're excited by this cavalcade of talent ?
  • ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I thought it was the return of Alastair Meek's much vaunted 'dull competence'. Don't tell me Richard will have to put down his champagne glass?
    Whatever happens, Sunak is on track to not be as bad a politician as Truss, or as bad a person as Johnson, or as ineffective a PM as May.

    The space labelled "much better than his predecessors without being that good" is awfully big.
    If he can also manage the title "slightly better than the LoTO without being that good" he might end up with an 80 seat majority
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    I was never particularly bothered about immigration and the point of the working holiday visa is that it's still a work permit based scheme and comes with no right to welfare for the three years and it then requires sponsorship to renew for a further three years, that's completely different to free movement, the government still has a big lever to pull on if it doesn't think it's good for the economy or a subset of workers are seeing wage deflation.
    Max you said yourself that it is virtually unlimited, in the millions, while many over stay their visas. That was what you didn't like, but are suggesting the exact same thing for the EU.

    Makes no sense.

    And if I had a penny for every time people posted on here "we love immigration we just want to be able to control it why should those from South Asia be discriminated against?" I would be 0.00000000001x as wealthy as Rishi.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027
    I think Rishi is having to play safe with most of these appointments. Probably well advised to

    I also wouldn’t discount the effect a different leader has in terms of structure, culture and direction.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    So far @RishiSunak’s government of “professionalism and accountability” has sacked the guy who ended the barristers strike (@BrandonLewis) and replaced him with the person who caused it (@DominicRaab), and is now trying to find a way round @SuellaBraverman being a security risk.

    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1584936538265522176
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,353
    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet of all the people who used to be in the cabinet, mostly in the same jobs they used to have.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1584934858429980673

    This is what change looks like.

    A few hours ago posters talking about the polls moving upwards…
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Red wall poll in 5 mins, taken yesterday
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Or an IKEA cabinet being rebuilt out of the remains of two smashed ones.
    one or two loose screws. And one odd shaped thingyabit it says should have been in the bag you didn’t get, now it’s altogether you don’t understand what purpose it was supposed to have.
    Cheeky. That odd shaped thingyabit used to be Education Secretary.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,609

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Or an IKEA cabinet being rebuilt out of the remains of two smashed ones.
    one or two loose screws. And one odd shaped thingyabit it says should have been in the bag you didn’t get, now it’s altogether you don’t understand what purpose it was supposed to have.
    And a few nuts
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    Donelan I think will just be confirmed in post. It would be bloody weird to occupy three different departments in the space of 3 months, and 50 days of ministerial time. But perhaps she is returning to Education, which was her first post.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,982

    Turns on Sky....and they are prattling on about gender AGAIN....

    A few on here as well, to be fair. It's the modern religion.

    I couldn't care less if its 100% male or 100% female, to be honest.

    I just want competence.
  • Red wall poll in 5 mins, taken yesterday

    Thieving bastards
  • As long as Braverman doesn't go to Home, I am pretty happy.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Driver said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    The point is to treat people from all countries fairly, rather than giving special privileges to people from 26 specific countries for no rational reason.
    Absurd. The visa that SB didn't want to authorise would, as Max has noted, have allowed millions of Indians to come over here (and no doubt to take our jobs). He now wants that privilege to be extended to the EU instead.

    Max was worried about the millions of Indians likely or at least able to come here. Leavers were worried about the millions of EU citizens likely or at least able to come here. So now Max says let the millions of EU citizens come here instead of the Indians.

  • Appears that Rishi Sunak is following the sage advice (in this respect) of preferring to have at least some of the usual suspects inside the tent pissing out, rather than outside the tent pissing in.

    Obvious that Liz Truss was AWOL from her PPE lectures the day (or was it month) THAT was discussed.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 59,982

    It is very very weird to leave announcing HS this late.

    Original choice turned it down.

    Now, he's scrabbling around trying to find a replacement and reshuffle the pack.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    GIN1138 said:

    Does Rish intend having any women in his cabinet?

    Anyone that remembers him constantly interrupting and talking over both Liz Truss and Sophie Raworth with his condescending mansplaining throughout the BBC Tory leadership debate won't be surprised that he's given all the big jobs to men. Rishi Sunak doesn't rate women.
  • ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I thought it was the return of Alastair Meek's much vaunted 'dull competence'. Don't tell me Richard will have to put down his champagne glass?
    Whatever happens, Sunak is on track to not be as bad a politician as Truss, or as bad a person as Johnson, or as ineffective a PM as May.

    The space labelled "much better than his predecessors without being that good" is awfully big.
    If he can also manage the title "slightly better than the LoTO without being that good" he might end up with an 80 seat majority
    Fortunately for all of us, that's a much higher bar to clear now than it was in 2019.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Suella is HS
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344

    I think Rishi is having to play safe with most of these appointments. Probably well advised to

    I also wouldn’t discount the effect a different leader has in terms of structure, culture and direction.

    The markets only worried about two positions - PM and Chancellor. They have been changed out.

    The rest? Meh.....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I thought it was the return of Alastair Meek's much vaunted 'dull competence'. Don't tell me Richard will have to put down his champagne glass?
    Whatever happens, Sunak is on track to not be as bad a politician as Truss, or as bad a person as Johnson, or as ineffective a PM as May.

    The space labelled "much better than his predecessors without being that good" is awfully big.
    If he can also manage the title "slightly better than the LoTO without being that good" he might end up with an 80 seat majority
    Blimey, you've changed in a week. Clearly you have read a @williamglenn post on your road to Damascus, and you are converted.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    edited October 2022
    Oh dear. As expected, Suella back as Home Secretary.

    The Rt Hon Suella Braverman KC MP @SuellaBraverman has been appointed Secretary of State for the Home Department @UKHomeOffice

    #Reshuffle


    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1584937651492093952
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828

    Suella is HS

    Fastest redemption ever.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,893
    Labour lead by 28% in the Red Wall.

    Red Wall Voting Intention (24-25 October):

    Labour 56% (-5)
    Conservative 28% (+7)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+3)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16-17 October

    https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/latest-red-wall-voting-intention-24-25-october-2022 https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1584937835458486273/photo/1
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    Piss take! Right I'm going home.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,037
    Red Wall Voting Intention (24-25 October):

    Labour 56% (-5)
    Conservative 28% (+7)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+3)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16-17 October

    An actual bounce. But still miles adrift
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,753
    Max's post:

    "Eh, the deal that was being talked about basically extended the working holiday visa scheme that we have with Australia and NZ to India, that strikes me as a poor idea as it's basically a 3 year work permit with no questions asked for under 35s. You can count in the millions per year the number of under 35 year old Indians who would take advantage of that scheme, unlike Australia and NZ where it's a few thousand per year.

    I think she was right to oppose the deal because the UK doesn't have the capacity to add 1.5-2m Indian young people per year for three years and then countless overstayers."


    So he says give the visas (and the concomitant millions of people) to the EU.

    During the Brexit campaign PB Leavers were falling over themselves to say how iniquitous it was that people from eg India couldn't come here while those from the EU could.

    Jesus FH Christ you lot really need to make up your mind or just say look we don't like foreigners. At least that would be honest.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,423
    Hahahaha

    I was feeling a bit down about Labour. Tories back in the game, SNP consistently good. But I think Sunak's messed up here.
  • Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    Again, this is the make-up-your-mind fallacy. There will be diverse opinons within a group, many of which are consisyent over time. This does not equate to a single un-made-up mimd.
    Absolutely. Some of us have been wanting free movement with the EU and more immigration from the rest of the world. But that doesn't seem to fit with Topping's preconceived ideas about Leavers so he would rather pretend we don't exist or that we have had some sort of Damascene conversion.
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can't we just sanction Steve Bray's benefits and make him get a job?

    I believe he gets donations.
    From people who don't know him or who've never met him or don't have to work near him.
    Is that a description of people who like Boris Johnson?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    I was never particularly bothered about immigration and the point of the working holiday visa is that it's still a work permit based scheme and comes with no right to welfare for the three years and it then requires sponsorship to renew for a further three years, that's completely different to free movement, the government still has a big lever to pull on if it doesn't think it's good for the economy or a subset of workers are seeing wage deflation.
    Max you said yourself that it is virtually unlimited, in the millions, while many over stay their visas. That was what you didn't like, but are suggesting the exact same thing for the EU.

    Makes no sense.

    And if I had a penny for every time people posted on here "we love immigration we just want to be able to control it why should those from South Asia be discriminated against?" I would be 0.00000000001x as wealthy as Rishi.
    It's because Indian nationals already have a higher than average tendency to overstay their visas. Suella Braverman was, fairly, pointing that out.

    You're being purposefully obtuse because you know there's no argument to be had here. An Indian person who earns $100/m in India has a huge incentive to get the 3 year visa, overstay and work illegally until they are deported vs a European earning €1500 per month wherever they live and there are, at last count, 1.4bn Indians compared to 300m people in the EU. The pull factor is just hugely different, for most younger Europeans it will be about a cultural exchange, learning English, meeting English and other European young people, for younger Indians it will be a straight up transactional exchange until they are booted out for overstaying their visa. The proposed scheme was a rubbish idea and any trade deal with India which includes it would be a terrible idea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    edited October 2022
    That's pathetic. What was he thinking?

    How to lose friends and alienate people.
This discussion has been closed.