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Another demonstration of Tory ruthlessness – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,728
    Fuck it. I'm going for a twix...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005

    Turns on Sky....and they are prattling on about gender AGAIN....

    A few on here as well, to be fair. It's the modern religion.

    I couldn't care less if its 100% male or 100% female, to be honest.

    I just want competence.
    What about Eddie Izzard?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955
    edited October 2022

    Red Wall Voting Intention (24-25 October):

    Labour 56% (-5)
    Conservative 28% (+7)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+3)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16-17 October

    An actual bounce. But still miles adrift

    6% swing Lab --> Con.

    Not sure how many seats that saves though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Red Wall Voting Intention (24-25 October):

    Labour 56% (-5)
    Conservative 28% (+7)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+3)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16-17 October

    An actual bounce. But still miles adrift

    That's the [perceived] comptence bounce. The 'We liked 2019 Boris' penalty still applies.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,456
    Driver said:

    I really don't like repeating myself, but as many are missing the point, here goes:

    Braverman resigned because she admitted breaking the Ministerial Code. She should not be appointed to anything until she has 'served her time'. It is nothing to do with her political positions.

    If Sunak gives her a job, it shows that he doesn't care much about breaches of the Ministerial Code.

    Remind me, which other recent PM was indifferent to the edicts of the Ministerial Code?

    It's kind of cute that people think that's why she resigned.
    Well she either did or she lied. Which offence do you want to go for?
  • ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I thought it was the return of Alastair Meek's much vaunted 'dull competence'. Don't tell me Richard will have to put down his champagne glass?
    Whatever happens, Sunak is on track to not be as bad a politician as Truss, or as bad a person as Johnson, or as ineffective a PM as May.

    The space labelled "much better than his predecessors without being that good" is awfully big.
    You missed out not as bad as Cameron in the "prepared to stay around to clear up the mess he caused" category.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Or an IKEA cabinet being rebuilt out of the remains of two smashed ones.
    one or two loose screws. And one odd shaped thingyabit it says should have been in the bag you didn’t get, now it’s altogether you don’t understand what purpose it was supposed to have.
    And a few nuts
    Always a few too many nuts. I think they do it deliberately to us because they think it’s somehow funny.

    Not just IKEA, the Tories too 🤭
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    The next appointee being Shapps shows the delay was about finding him a good post.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080
    Scott_xP said:

    Cabinet of all the people who used to be in the cabinet, mostly in the same jobs they used to have.

    https://twitter.com/mikeysmith/status/1584934858429980673

    I thought we had about cabinets worth of those from the last 100 days.

    They can't all be back.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,815

    Red Wall Voting Intention (24-25 October):

    Labour 56% (-5)
    Conservative 28% (+7)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+3)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16-17 October

    An actual bounce. But still miles adrift

    6% swing Lab --> Con.

    Not sure how many seats that saves though.
    None in the red wall seats used on this, but a bounce is not a one step process of course, its a big initial jerk
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    Again, this is the make-up-your-mind fallacy. There will be diverse opinons within a group, many of which are consisyent over time. This does not equate to a single un-made-up mimd.
    Absolutely. Some of us have been wanting free movement with the EU and more immigration from the rest of the world. But that doesn't seem to fit with Topping's preconceived ideas about Leavers so he would rather pretend we don't exist or that we have had some sort of Damascene conversion.
    Bollocks Richard. Max (a leaver) just said he didn't want millions of Indians coming over here and his solution was to give those very same visas to the EU.

    What's your solution?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    ydoethur said:

    That's pathetic. What was he thinking?

    How to lose friends and alienate people.

    What did you think? Just because the alternatives were certifiably insane, that meant Sunak wasn't a self-seeking, unscrupulous politician?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    Eabhal said:

    Hahahaha

    I was feeling a bit down about Labour. Tories back in the game, SNP consistently good. But I think Sunak's messed up here.

    I agree. Also although I can understand there might have been some bad blood with Mordaunt coming out of the contest not putting her to good use in a senior role is a big mistake too.

    Not a good start.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    The Suella appointment is very disappointing and I think is the big story of the reshuffle. And not in a good way.

    Fumbled it, Rishi…

    That's one for the membership frankly. Sorry you didn't get to vote, but have some red meat instead.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,960
    Sunak out.

    Who does Braverman have photos of, anyway?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,557
    ydoethur said:

    That's pathetic. What was he thinking?

    How to lose friends and alienate people.

    Be fair - he is unlikely to have had any experience with the products of IKEA.
    This is probably his first time putting a cabinet together.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,116

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    Or an IKEA cabinet being rebuilt out of the remains of two smashed ones.
    one or two loose screws. And one odd shaped thingyabit it says should have been in the bag you didn’t get, now it’s altogether you don’t understand what purpose it was supposed to have.
    And a few nuts
    Always a few too many nuts. I think they do it deliberately to us because they think it’s somehow funny.

    Not just IKEA, the Tories too 🤭
    At least with IKEA a few spare nuts are genuinely useful, in the sense that if you drop one down the crack between the floorboards all is not lost, and the leftovers can be slung into the instant coffee jar marked 'assorted nuts' in the shed. On the other hand, with the Tories ...
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,096
    Some truly dreadful appointments going on, showing how weak Rishi Sunak must be.

    Braverman Home Sec?

    FFS.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    Un-fucking-believable.
    She’s, a bit of a loose cannon, not loyal, not a team player, a bit full of herself, and just not very talented at any government job she has had yet. Yet one of the Tory Party’s Big 3. 🫣
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    The Suella appointment is very disappointing and I think is the big story of the reshuffle. And not in a good way.

    Fumbled it, Rishi…

    And yet the alternative was Priti Patel returning under Boris next Monday after he won the members ballot. I'm really not sure how different that would be for the department, but for the nation another two years of Boris would be a disaster. The opportunity cost of not getting Braverman on side was extremely high, Sunak showing he can do grown up politics more than anything else. Purity is for numpties, if he'd refused her offer he'd be losing the membership race right now.
  • Suella is HS

    Noooooooo!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955

    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    F*cking ridiculous appointment.
    On the bright side, she'll be gone within a week!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    4m
    The Suella Braverman appointment shows just how significant her intervention backing Rishi Sunak was.
  • ydoethur said:

    This is not looking like a good cabinet.

    In fact, it's looking like one of those IKEA flatpack jobs put up by somebody very enthusiastic but who doesn't know the difference between a drill bit and a screwdriver.

    I thought it was the return of Alastair Meek's much vaunted 'dull competence'. Don't tell me Richard will have to put down his champagne glass?
    Whatever happens, Sunak is on track to not be as bad a politician as Truss, or as bad a person as Johnson, or as ineffective a PM as May.

    The space labelled "much better than his predecessors without being that good" is awfully big.
    If he can also manage the title "slightly better than the LoTO without being that good" he might end up with an 80 seat majority
    Blimey, you've changed in a week. Clearly you have read a @williamglenn post on your road to Damascus, and you are converted.
    Lol. I was being ironic. Not changed that much, but very happy to see Rishi as PM rather than the last two incompetent clowns. I have always been slightly right of centre, so no emails to the Corinthians, Romans etc. will be issuing forth from my keyboard
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,458
    So, Sunak has the same attitude to breaches of the Ministerial Code as Boris Johnson.

    He couldn't give a flying fuck.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,081

    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    Un-fucking-believable.
    Wow. That's a massive, massive own goal.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 86
    Muesli said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Does Rish intend having any women in his cabinet?

    Anyone that remembers him constantly interrupting and talking over both Liz Truss and Sophie Raworth with his condescending mansplaining throughout the BBC Tory leadership debate won't be surprised that he's given all the big jobs to men. Rishi Sunak doesn't rate women.
    I stand corrected. Rishi Sunak doesn't rate women, except Suella De Vil. I'm not sure that's any better.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973
    You’d have to guess Sunak had no choice re. The endorsement from her, and is hoping she makes another massive error thus forcing her resignation
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Several reasonable people suggested limited Cabinet change might be a sensible way to go, as well as not excluding the Borisite wing completely. So some of the appointments make a degree of sense, like Cleverly.

    Braverman though is a specific choice to bring back, not simply not sack. Different kettle of fish.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    Again, this is the make-up-your-mind fallacy. There will be diverse opinons within a group, many of which are consisyent over time. This does not equate to a single un-made-up mimd.
    Absolutely. Some of us have been wanting free movement with the EU and more immigration from the rest of the world. But that doesn't seem to fit with Topping's preconceived ideas about Leavers so he would rather pretend we don't exist or that we have had some sort of Damascene conversion.
    Bollocks Richard. Max (a leaver) just said he didn't want millions of Indians coming over here and his solution was to give those very same visas to the EU.

    What's your solution?
    Because the numbers are vastly different. It would be millions of Indian young people per year vs maybe a few tens of thousands of European young people per year and there's little issue with EU overstayers vs Indian overstayers which the government has already been dealing with for post higher education visa holders.
  • Looks to me as if Rishi is scared to death of the membership, and is desperate to portray himself as merely the latest bearer of the Boris/Truss flame. The ghost of Boris will continue to haunt the Tories for some time yet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Braverman can resign when the Rwanda scheme cocks up some more I guess.
  • I presume the lady who likes to share her prescriptions will be staying as Health then....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955

    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    Un-fucking-believable.
    She’s, a bit of a loose cannon, not loyal, not a team player, a bit full of herself, and just not very talented at any government job she has had yet. Yet one of the Tory Party’s Big 3. 🫣
    Maybe her mum knows his mum.... Welcome to South Asian politics!!!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,007
    I'm logging off.

    Getting annoyed by the announcement of a stream of non-entities.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,116
    kle4 said:

    Several reasonable people suggested limited Cabinet change might be a sensible way to go, as well as not excluding the Borisite wing completely. So some of the appointments make a degree of sense, like Cleverly.

    Braverman though is a specific choice to bring back, not simply not sack. Different kettle of fish.

    Excellent point.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008
    Just be thankful Boris's position wasn't a bit stronger, or he's be Foreign Secretary now.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,226
    What’s left for penny then?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    Press F to pay respects to Shappsie.

    🇫
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,853
    edited October 2022

    The Suella appointment is very disappointing and I think is the big story of the reshuffle. And not in a good way.

    Fumbled it, Rishi…

    That's one for the membership frankly. Sorry you didn't get to vote, but have some red meat instead.
    Rishi is still a hostage until he's earned enough credits.

    Is there a book on the first minister to resign yet?
  • moonshine said:

    What’s left for penny then?

    Doing the teas?
  • Dmitry Grozoubinski @DmitryOpines

    If Rishi Sunak were serious about owning the libs he'd appoint Boris Johnson his ethics adviser.
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 113
    Started off well with Mogg gone and the egregious Clarke. Gone rapidly down hill since with the same old horrors for Halloween.
  • TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    Again, this is the make-up-your-mind fallacy. There will be diverse opinons within a group, many of which are consisyent over time. This does not equate to a single un-made-up mimd.
    Absolutely. Some of us have been wanting free movement with the EU and more immigration from the rest of the world. But that doesn't seem to fit with Topping's preconceived ideas about Leavers so he would rather pretend we don't exist or that we have had some sort of Damascene conversion.
    Bollocks Richard. Max (a leaver) just said he didn't want millions of Indians coming over here and his solution was to give those very same visas to the EU.

    What's your solution?
    Max is one person. He does not speak for the whole of the Leave movement any more than I do - or any more than you speak for all Remainers. You don't get to pigeon hole people just to fit your own pre-conceived bias. So I am afraid it is you who are talking bollocks.

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 2,800
    moonshine said:

    What’s left for penny then?

    Larry's cat litter doesn't just change itself...
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    kle4 said:

    Several reasonable people suggested limited Cabinet change might be a sensible way to go, as well as not excluding the Borisite wing completely. So some of the appointments make a degree of sense, like Cleverly.

    Braverman though is a specific choice to bring back, not simply not sack. Different kettle of fish.

    He could have given her a more junior role - I.e thank you for the support but I can’t give you back this job given the history.

    He had a choice.

    He decided he didn’t care.

    So much for integrity.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,781
    Maybe Sunak is a bit shit?

    Good presentation, I grant you, but any politician can chuck billions at a massive pandemic/energy bills and make it look good.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    F*cking ridiculous appointment.
    On the bright side, she'll be gone within a week!
    Indeed. This is pure politics. On the up side, The Clown has gone. Rees-Mogg has gone. Dorries has gone. Just rejoice at that news.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    I think Rishi is having to play safe with most of these appointments. Probably well advised to

    I also wouldn’t discount the effect a different leader has in terms of structure, culture and direction.

    🤭 . .
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,038
    She may be rabid and right wing but she knows game theory well enough.

    Quite impressive return if we are honest.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950
    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    I was never particularly bothered about immigration and the point of the working holiday visa is that it's still a work permit based scheme and comes with no right to welfare for the three years and it then requires sponsorship to renew for a further three years, that's completely different to free movement, the government still has a big lever to pull on if it doesn't think it's good for the economy or a subset of workers are seeing wage deflation.
    Max you said yourself that it is virtually unlimited, in the millions, while many over stay their visas. That was what you didn't like, but are suggesting the exact same thing for the EU.

    Makes no sense.

    And if I had a penny for every time people posted on here "we love immigration we just want to be able to control it why should those from South Asia be discriminated against?" I would be 0.00000000001x as wealthy as Rishi.
    It's because Indian nationals already have a higher than average tendency to overstay their visas. Suella Braverman was, fairly, pointing that out.

    You're being purposefully obtuse because you know there's no argument to be had here. An Indian person who earns $100/m in India has a huge incentive to get the 3 year visa, overstay and work illegally until they are deported vs a European earning €1500 per month wherever they live and there are, at last count, 1.4bn Indians compared to 300m people in the EU. The pull factor is just hugely different, for most younger Europeans it will be about a cultural exchange, learning English, meeting English and other European young people, for younger Indians it will be a straight up transactional exchange until they are booted out for overstaying their visa. The proposed scheme was a rubbish idea and any trade deal with India which includes it would be a terrible idea.
    Just be logical.

    To say give all EU citizens the theoretical right to come over here in their millions after voting precisely to curtail just that right is just ridiculous.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    moonshine said:

    What’s left for penny then?

    Feels like he’s deliberately humiliating her TBH
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955

    Looks to me as if Rishi is scared to death of the membership, and is desperate to portray himself as merely the latest bearer of the Boris/Truss flame. The ghost of Boris will continue to haunt the Tories for some time yet.

    Well, you certainly can't describe this Cabinet as a new broom....
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008

    So, Sunak has the same attitude to breaches of the Ministerial Code as Boris Johnson.

    He couldn't give a flying fuck.

    He probably just has better judgment about what he can get away with. Probably.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 40,950

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    Again, this is the make-up-your-mind fallacy. There will be diverse opinons within a group, many of which are consisyent over time. This does not equate to a single un-made-up mimd.
    Absolutely. Some of us have been wanting free movement with the EU and more immigration from the rest of the world. But that doesn't seem to fit with Topping's preconceived ideas about Leavers so he would rather pretend we don't exist or that we have had some sort of Damascene conversion.
    Bollocks Richard. Max (a leaver) just said he didn't want millions of Indians coming over here and his solution was to give those very same visas to the EU.

    What's your solution?
    Max is one person. He does not speak for the whole of the Leave movement any more than I do - or any more than you speak for all Remainers. You don't get to pigeon hole people just to fit your own pre-conceived bias. So I am afraid it is you who are talking bollocks.

    Are you a fan of the visas for India?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    That's pathetic. What was he thinking?

    How to lose friends and alienate people.

    Be fair - he is unlikely to have had any experience with the products of IKEA.
    This is probably his first time putting a cabinet together.
    Sunak does strike me as the sort who couldn't tap an M10 thread or cut decent box joints.
  • MaxPB said:

    The Suella appointment is very disappointing and I think is the big story of the reshuffle. And not in a good way.

    Fumbled it, Rishi…

    And yet the alternative was Priti Patel returning under Boris next Monday after he won the members ballot. I'm really not sure how different that would be for the department, but for the nation another two years of Boris would be a disaster. The opportunity cost of not getting Braverman on side was extremely high, Sunak showing he can do grown up politics more than anything else. Purity is for numpties, if he'd refused her offer he'd be losing the membership race right now.
    While deploring Braverman's policy, etc. think her reappointment to Home Dept by RSPM is about the clearest signal he could send to the Red Wall that he is going to be "tough" on immigration.

    Also suggests that (alleged) fiscal reasons for SB's resignation last week have been overcome.

    As for violation of ministerial code, her's appeared somewhat penny-ante (pun not originally intended) compared to other recent, ridiculously egregious examples?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,005
    edited October 2022
    Difficult to know whether to blame Sunak or just acknowledge the total mess he has been left with from Johnson and Truss. Could he have been more ruthless? The dispossessed never make your life easy. The adults may be back in charge but they're scared of the kids throwing their toys out the pram.
  • Grant Shapps at business, the gags write themselves about his dodgy business past.
  • Can Sky News make it through 5 mins without banging on about race and gender of make up of the cabinet.

    The Woke takes of the MSM have been excruciating today.

    Must embarass and frustrate Rishi enormously.
    You'd think Rishi (or someone close to him) would have spotted this at the drafting stage. Was it Stuart Pearce who, on picking his first team, proudly showed it to his wife who perused the 11 names and asked where was the goalkeeper?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080
    Looking at the piccies, I see a military uniform I don't recognise. Can anyone help?



    It looks very @TSE , especially the white leather boots.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,243

    Red Wall Voting Intention (24-25 October):

    Labour 56% (-5)
    Conservative 28% (+7)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+3)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16-17 October

    An actual bounce. But still miles adrift

    Massive LD surge! Support up 60% :smiley:
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415

    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    Un-fucking-believable.
    She’s, a bit of a loose cannon, not loyal, not a team player, a bit full of herself, and just not very talented at any government job she has had yet. Yet one of the Tory Party’s Big 3. 🫣
    Maybe her mum knows his mum.... Welcome to South Asian politics!!!
    🤭

    Even if she identifies as a Buddhist?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    I was never particularly bothered about immigration and the point of the working holiday visa is that it's still a work permit based scheme and comes with no right to welfare for the three years and it then requires sponsorship to renew for a further three years, that's completely different to free movement, the government still has a big lever to pull on if it doesn't think it's good for the economy or a subset of workers are seeing wage deflation.
    Max you said yourself that it is virtually unlimited, in the millions, while many over stay their visas. That was what you didn't like, but are suggesting the exact same thing for the EU.

    Makes no sense.

    And if I had a penny for every time people posted on here "we love immigration we just want to be able to control it why should those from South Asia be discriminated against?" I would be 0.00000000001x as wealthy as Rishi.
    It's because Indian nationals already have a higher than average tendency to overstay their visas. Suella Braverman was, fairly, pointing that out.

    You're being purposefully obtuse because you know there's no argument to be had here. An Indian person who earns $100/m in India has a huge incentive to get the 3 year visa, overstay and work illegally until they are deported vs a European earning €1500 per month wherever they live and there are, at last count, 1.4bn Indians compared to 300m people in the EU. The pull factor is just hugely different, for most younger Europeans it will be about a cultural exchange, learning English, meeting English and other European young people, for younger Indians it will be a straight up transactional exchange until they are booted out for overstaying their visa. The proposed scheme was a rubbish idea and any trade deal with India which includes it would be a terrible idea.
    Just be logical.

    To say give all EU citizens the theoretical right to come over here in their millions after voting precisely to curtail just that right is just ridiculous.
    Not really, firstly it's a working holiday visa available to people aged 35 or younger, secondly the visa comes with no right to welfare, thirdly to renew it the person needs a sponsored job at the end of the 3 years or they have to go home. It's completely different to free movement of people. You're trying to draw an equivalence because you think it's some kind of huge gotcha moment, but it isn't and it isn't.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    Eabhal said:

    Maybe Sunak is a bit shit?

    Good presentation, I grant you, but any politician can chuck billions at a massive pandemic/energy bills and make it look good.

    I think the idea has been to keep things roughly the same to project stability, rather than a massive shuffle of the deckchairs just as some ministers have been given their new briefs. I can understand the concept. I just think the execution is very poor - Braverman might have been rewarded with a return to cabinet but back in a great office seems reckless and tin-eared. Not giving Penny a bigger role (it looks like) feels a bit peculiar. I’m still not seeing all this talent that was going to be drawn from all wings of the party - but then again perhaps there is so little talent left on the Tory benches that this is what we have to put up with.
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,701
    on a brighter note the new Dr Who logo has been revealed and it’s a cracker. A banging bad boy of a logo.

    https://twitter.com/andydrewz/status/1584935882129539072?s=61&t=fgX5b1R-hUaRU754AoA5_Q
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 5,781
    edited October 2022
    MattW said:

    Looking at the piccies, I see a military uniform I don't recognise. Can anyone help?



    It looks very @TSE , especially the white leather boots.

    Royal Regiment of Scotland. You can tell by the kilt.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 4,339

    Looks to me as if Rishi is scared to death of the membership, and is desperate to portray himself as merely the latest bearer of the Boris/Truss flame. The ghost of Boris will continue to haunt the Tories for some time yet.

    He was part of vote leave, linked to Cummings, and was a key part of the 2019 Cabinet and election campaign. What did people expect…?
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    edited October 2022
    Braverman shouldn't have a job especially on the back of that GDPR fuckup.

    Mistake.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 43,600
    edited October 2022
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    That's pathetic. What was he thinking?

    How to lose friends and alienate people.

    Be fair - he is unlikely to have had any experience with the products of IKEA.
    This is probably his first time putting a cabinet together.
    Sunak does strike me as the sort who couldn't tap an M10 thread or cut decent box joints.
    He strikes me as the type to have a ferociously tidy workshop. With a very very exotic 5 axis lathe/mill
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,973

    I think Rishi is having to play safe with most of these appointments. Probably well advised to

    I also wouldn’t discount the effect a different leader has in terms of structure, culture and direction.

    🤭 . .
    Well, the way I’d see it is that Bravermans endorsement prevented any further momentum toward Johnson. So as a political move, probably correct as going to be difficult to turf Sunak out once he was in post
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    I was never particularly bothered about immigration and the point of the working holiday visa is that it's still a work permit based scheme and comes with no right to welfare for the three years and it then requires sponsorship to renew for a further three years, that's completely different to free movement, the government still has a big lever to pull on if it doesn't think it's good for the economy or a subset of workers are seeing wage deflation.
    Max you said yourself that it is virtually unlimited, in the millions, while many over stay their visas. That was what you didn't like, but are suggesting the exact same thing for the EU.

    Makes no sense.

    And if I had a penny for every time people posted on here "we love immigration we just want to be able to control it why should those from South Asia be discriminated against?" I would be 0.00000000001x as wealthy as Rishi.
    It's because Indian nationals already have a higher than average tendency to overstay their visas. Suella Braverman was, fairly, pointing that out.

    You're being purposefully obtuse because you know there's no argument to be had here. An Indian person who earns $100/m in India has a huge incentive to get the 3 year visa, overstay and work illegally until they are deported vs a European earning €1500 per month wherever they live and there are, at last count, 1.4bn Indians compared to 300m people in the EU. The pull factor is just hugely different, for most younger Europeans it will be about a cultural exchange, learning English, meeting English and other European young people, for younger Indians it will be a straight up transactional exchange until they are booted out for overstaying their visa. The proposed scheme was a rubbish idea and any trade deal with India which includes it would be a terrible idea.
    Just be logical.

    To say give all EU citizens the theoretical right to come over here in their millions after voting precisely to curtail just that right is just ridiculous.
    I had to check that it was not April 1st when I read this....
  • Well I think Sunak will find it hard to convince the public that this is a new-look, revitalised government. He is either being surprisingly foolish, or is in a surprisingly weak position - either way I was hoping for a more convincing team.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,080

    moonshine said:

    What’s left for penny then?

    Doing the teas?
    Is Leader of the House still available?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,815
    edited October 2022
    Red wall preferred PM comes in at 38 37 Starmer to Sunak
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,701
    Selebian said:

    Red Wall Voting Intention (24-25 October):

    Labour 56% (-5)
    Conservative 28% (+7)
    Liberal Democrat 8% (+3)
    Reform UK 5% (-3)
    Green 2% (-1)
    Plaid Cymru 1% (–)
    Other 1% (–)

    Changes +/- 16-17 October

    An actual bounce. But still miles adrift

    Massive LD surge! Support up 60% :smiley:
    Winning here
  • Selebian said:

    kle4 said:

    Suella is HS

    Fastest redemption ever.
    Fastest reverse ferret (by Sunak) from upholding integrity ever?
    Depressing, but not that surprising.

    Sunak was happy to be part of the Vote Leave campaign. He was one of the first Boris backers in 2019. He was attending/in Boris's cabinet from the beginning until nearly the end. He was happy to be Dom's sub when Javid was constructively dismissed. He's gone along with all the ghastly stuff.

    He may well have more integrity than his predecessors. But not necessarily much more.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    MaxPB said:

    The Suella appointment is very disappointing and I think is the big story of the reshuffle. And not in a good way.

    Fumbled it, Rishi…

    And yet the alternative was Priti Patel returning under Boris next Monday after he won the members ballot. I'm really not sure how different that would be for the department, but for the nation another two years of Boris would be a disaster. The opportunity cost of not getting Braverman on side was extremely high, Sunak showing he can do grown up politics more than anything else. Purity is for numpties, if he'd refused her offer he'd be losing the membership race right now.
    What members ballot?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,008

    MaxPB said:

    The Suella appointment is very disappointing and I think is the big story of the reshuffle. And not in a good way.

    Fumbled it, Rishi…

    And yet the alternative was Priti Patel returning under Boris next Monday after he won the members ballot. I'm really not sure how different that would be for the department, but for the nation another two years of Boris would be a disaster. The opportunity cost of not getting Braverman on side was extremely high, Sunak showing he can do grown up politics more than anything else. Purity is for numpties, if he'd refused her offer he'd be losing the membership race right now.
    While deploring Braverman's policy, etc. think her reappointment to Home Dept by RSPM is about the clearest signal he could send to the Red Wall that he is going to be "tough" on immigration. ...
    I wonder if he considered putting on white make up.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,955

    Scott_xP said:

    Suella Braverman is BACK as Home Secretary 👀 https://twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1584937857336033282/photo/1

    F*cking ridiculous appointment.
    On the bright side, she'll be gone within a week!
    Indeed. This is pure politics. On the up side, The Clown has gone. Rees-Mogg has gone. Dorries has gone. Just rejoice at that news.
    Rishi has made the changes he had to make, but damn all else. Maybe those 110 Boris nominations actually cast a long shadow....
  • Braverman as HS is the one appointment that seems wrong, but I suspect this is part of the politics of attempting to keep all sides of the party together

    Sky are commenting that Sunak seems to be wanting continuity whenever possible to hit the ground running but where is Mordaunt

    Anyway I continue to be delighted Johnson and Truss are yesterday's news and Sunak and Hunt are the key to the immediate prospects of reassuring the money markets and hopefully seeing downward pressure on mortgage rates

    I think it was @Leon who commented that of course Sunak's critics are the ones who would not vote conservative, but the next few weeks and months will be very interesting starting with PMQ's tomorrow
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,603

    MaxPB said:

    The Suella appointment is very disappointing and I think is the big story of the reshuffle. And not in a good way.

    Fumbled it, Rishi…

    And yet the alternative was Priti Patel returning under Boris next Monday after he won the members ballot. I'm really not sure how different that would be for the department, but for the nation another two years of Boris would be a disaster. The opportunity cost of not getting Braverman on side was extremely high, Sunak showing he can do grown up politics more than anything else. Purity is for numpties, if he'd refused her offer he'd be losing the membership race right now.
    What members ballot?
    The one that would have ensued had Braverman backed Boris and taken the right wingers with her. Boris didn't run because he didn't have 101 backers, had he got there he would absolutely have taken it to a ballot and won it.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Cookie said:

    TOPPING said:

    MaxPB said:

    Hold on a sec.

    When we weren't sure if Suella B had resigned or been sacked, there was lots of chatter about how the issue was about legal immigration. Basically, we could no longer afford a "fewer foreigners" strategy because we really needed people to take our jobs.

    How does that circle get squared?

    Extend the Australia/NZ working holiday scheme to the EU on reciprocal basis. It's not a difficult question to answer, Rishi just needs the balls to push it through.
    Hang on so now we want virtually unlimited immigration from the EU instead of South Asia.

    You leavers can't get your story right - last time (ie with Brexit) you were all delighted that we would have fewer EU immigrants and more from eg South Asia.

    Make your bleedin' minds up.
    Again, this is the make-up-your-mind fallacy. There will be diverse opinons within a group, many of which are consisyent over time. This does not equate to a single un-made-up mimd.
    Absolutely. Some of us have been wanting free movement with the EU and more immigration from the rest of the world. But that doesn't seem to fit with Topping's preconceived ideas about Leavers so he would rather pretend we don't exist or that we have had some sort of Damascene conversion.
    Bollocks Richard. Max (a leaver) just said he didn't want millions of Indians coming over here and his solution was to give those very same visas to the EU.

    What's your solution?
    Max is one person. He does not speak for the whole of the Leave movement any more than I do - or any more than you speak for all Remainers. You don't get to pigeon hole people just to fit your own pre-conceived bias. So I am afraid it is you who are talking bollocks.

    Are you a fan of the visas for India?
    I am a fan of both freedom of movement with the EU and more visas for India (and lots of other places). It has been my position - argued against all comers on here, both Leave and Remain supporters - since long before the EU referendum. I think immigration is good for this country and something to be encouraged. Always have done and, I hope, always will.

    I think strong control of borders is good in so far as we need to filter those who intend to do us harm or commit criminal acts (one reason I don't like Schengen) but beyond that I would like to see a default position that people are encouraged to come and work and study here rather than pushed away.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    On topic: The "Ruthlessness" of the Tory Party - this is the same party that agonised for months over Boris and elected the obviously unsuitable Truss only to bitch incessantly in the background for weeks?

    Are you trying to redefine the meaning of "Ruthlessness"?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 12,415


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    4m
    The Suella Braverman appointment shows just how significant her intervention backing Rishi Sunak was.

    Does it? 😂

    Given the choice, the freemarketeers as pretty much a United gang, all chose Rishi as the one more likely closer to their core beliefs - expanding the role of the markets in solving economic and social problems. promote the intellectual case for a free economy, low taxes, freedom in education, health and welfare and lower levels of regulation.

    To read anymore than that into why they back Sunak over Boris as Hodges is doing is just getting bloody stupid now.
  • RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    Penny staying as Leader of the HoC, seems like a punishment!

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1584942892489244674
  • Red wall preferred PM comes in at 38 37 Starmer to Sunak

    That is closer than I expected and Sunak hasn't really started yet
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,880
    edited October 2022
    MattW said:

    Looking at the piccies, I see a military uniform I don't recognise. Can anyone help?



    It looks very @TSE , especially the white leather boots.

    2A Ceremonial of Royal Regiment of Scotland. Gold aiguilette because he's an equerry.

    He's destroying Sunak (beta cuck) with that handshake.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I hear Big Tofu is not happy about this and is pledging that there will be consequences.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    I was about to write about how he has picked a lot of the worst members of both Boris' and Truss' cabinets. Then I remembered he does have to try and keep this lot of warring idiots together as much as possible over the next 2 years. Some of them will I'm sure be replaced as the inevitable ministerial misdemeanours and resignations happen.

    Braverman must be the shortest political redemption in British history?
  • Penny stays as leader of the commons
  • TazTaz Posts: 10,701
    Mordaunt keeps her old job
This discussion has been closed.