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Another demonstration of Tory ruthlessness – politicalbetting.com

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  • NEW THREAD

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Doesn't "attends cabinet" just mean "attends when required"? (ie. when their area is on the agenda, and presumably only when discussing their area)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Presume that means 0.7% GDP on Aid is back then.

    Big political mistake, if it is.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited October 2022
    alex_ said:

    I’d also note that Rishi has given very little thought to the Unionist part of his job. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish picks look like afterthoughts.

    There have been suggestions (don't know if true) that the existing team had actually been making decent progress in Northern Ireland - if so, presumably made sense to keep in post.
    Possibly, but you have Raab back to work on his piece of crap British Rights bill, perhaps with a lib-owning “Junk the ECHR” referendum as hinted at by Cummings.

    Which won’t help EU (and thereby NI) relations.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Presume that means 0.7% GDP on Aid is back then.

    Big political mistake, if it is.
    I suspect that a large part of Ukraine spend will be badged as international aid, so hitting the target will be a doddle...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,437

    I’d also note that Rishi has given very little thought to the Unionist part of his job. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish picks look like afterthoughts.

    There is very limited scope for appointments in those areas given the Tories lack of electoral success there.
  • TOPPING said:

    My view as an ex-Cons Cameroonian-inclined former Tory voter.

    Fuck 'em.

    They have started off badly in the composition of the cabinet as more of the same but slightly different and great to have a South Asian in charge but they will have to work hard to win my vote back which, looking at the new Cabinet,
    they may well struggle to do.

    Thus speaks 1/35m th of the electorate.

    Is Sunak a South Asian?
  • I give Head Boy Sunak a bare pass for this Cabinet.

    He’s done well to leave key figures largely in place, as I counselled yesterday. He’s brought back Gove.

    He’s brought in some decent new talent in the form of Keegan and Stride.

    I will - through my teeth - concede that Braverman was “worth a mass”.

    But why oh why bring back Raab? The man has no following inside our outside the party. Ditto Williamson.

    Raab - Braverman - Cleverly in top jobs is a bad look. None are truly serious appointments.

    It’s not clear if Rishi has a “Willy”, if he does it surely can’t be Raab who has no political antenna whatsoever.

    As Freedman notes, this looks like a Cabinet that wishes to resume the kulturkampf of the Johnson years while Rishi and Hunt can get on with the job of austerity.

    Whist a bare pass is better than an Aegrotat after seven weeks, or Rustication for Moral Turpitude, it's not really enough.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    Are there no Etonians in the Cabinet now? And without doing the research, have a feeling that the proportion of State educated members is somewhat higher than under Truss.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Presume that means 0.7% GDP on Aid is back then.

    Big political mistake, if it is.
    No, that would be a positive step.
    Britain shouldn’t forfeit its global development leadership.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,406
    edited October 2022
    kle4 said:

    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    Chris said:

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    Tugendhat reappointed Minister of State for Security (Home Office) attending Cabinet.

    Wiki says his middle name is Georg, with no e. Surely disqualifying from high office?
    More so than 'Rishi' or 'Sunak'?
    I don't follow.

    I just hadn't seen George spelled in that variant before, so it stood out, like if Chris was spell Qhris. Not aware of variations for Rishi or Sunak, though perhaps there are some.
    Fun fact.
    The surname Sunak is more common in Ukraine than India.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Development Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    By far the longest serving MP with a prominent role so far, being the only one elected pre 2005, in 1987 originally (with a 4 year gap).
  • TOPPING said:

    My view as an ex-Cons Cameroonian-inclined former Tory voter.

    Fuck 'em.

    They have started off badly in the composition of the cabinet as more of the same but slightly different and great to have a South Asian in charge but they will have to work hard to win my vote back which, looking at the new Cabinet,
    they may well struggle to do.

    Thus speaks 1/35m th of the electorate.

    Is Sunak a South Asian?
    Ancestry, not birth.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,749

    Chris said:

    This is about right as a summary, of both the thinking and the risks, isn't it?

    Sunak's deal with the right is "let me do the economics and you can have your culture war / immigration headlines". Problem is if liberal votes hate the authoritarianism and authoritarians hate the economics.....

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1584959336182599682?

    The problem though is that the economy needs some loosening of the immigration rules, which takes us back to the Truss Braverman bust up.
    Central paradox of the last few years.

    A lot of voters have gone for "improve prosperity by having fewer foreigners".

    It's not a stupid idea, ...
    Why do you think it's not stupid?
    I can see the logic. Very roughly "there's a more or less finite pie, and if there's less of them there will be more for me".

    There's lots that's mistaken about that thinking. And with the thinking that says that "high value" immigrants are OK but "low value" ones aren't. But there's a rationale there, so it's not fair to call it stupid.

    Unfortnately, explaining that a plausible idea is nonetheless wrong is blooming difficult.
    So not stupid but still wrong?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Development Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    The greater the number of people attending cabinet, the less useful it is, and the greater the certainty that the real decisions will be made elsewhere, by a smaller number of people.

    Cabinet should probably be limited to no more then six members, with various subcommittees to cover other parts of government.
  • Chris said:

    Chris said:

    This is about right as a summary, of both the thinking and the risks, isn't it?

    Sunak's deal with the right is "let me do the economics and you can have your culture war / immigration headlines". Problem is if liberal votes hate the authoritarianism and authoritarians hate the economics.....

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1584959336182599682?

    The problem though is that the economy needs some loosening of the immigration rules, which takes us back to the Truss Braverman bust up.
    Central paradox of the last few years.

    A lot of voters have gone for "improve prosperity by having fewer foreigners".

    It's not a stupid idea, ...
    Why do you think it's not stupid?
    I can see the logic. Very roughly "there's a more or less finite pie, and if there's less of them there will be more for me".

    There's lots that's mistaken about that thinking. And with the thinking that says that "high value" immigrants are OK but "low value" ones aren't. But there's a rationale there, so it's not fair to call it stupid.

    Unfortnately, explaining that a plausible idea is nonetheless wrong is blooming difficult.
    So not stupid but still wrong?
    Pretty much.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,269

    HYUFD said:

    Celebration in India as Rishi Sunak becomes PM in most papers.

    However the redwall might not take so kindly to the headline in the Hindi language Dainik Bhaskar "Another Diwali gift to the nation, Indian-origin Rishi to rule the whites".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-63370153

    That's the sort of thinking Modi panders to and encourages.

    Screw Modi.
    That’s a disgraceful comment.

    Modi’s thinking is nothing like a subtle as the remark above. To start with it is no good for inciting communalist violence against minority groups in India.

    Needs some TheRightKindfHindusAreVictims bullshit to make it a Modi thing.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    alex_ said:

    I’d also note that Rishi has given very little thought to the Unionist part of his job. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish picks look like afterthoughts.

    There have been suggestions (don't know if true) that the existing team had actually been making decent progress in Northern Ireland - if so, presumably made sense to keep in post.
    The Irish were certainly happy with the relationship that had been quickly developed with the NI ministers (and the foreign secretary), so keeping all of those in place presumably increases the chances of resolving the NI protocol issue reasonably soon.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Presume that means 0.7% GDP on Aid is back then.

    Big political mistake, if it is.
    No, that would be a positive step.
    Britain shouldn’t forfeit its global development leadership.

    No, it's utterly terrible politics. It's the one cut that's hugely popular.

    Try selling an increase in that when there are cuts in public services, tax rises and a cost of living crisis.

    The 0.7% GDP International Aid target is establishment virtue signalling.

    Utterly stupidity.
  • JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Presume that means 0.7% GDP on Aid is back then.

    Big political mistake, if it is.
    No, that would be a positive step.
    Britain shouldn’t forfeit its global development leadership.


    No, it's utterly terrible politics. It's the one cut that's hugely popular.

    Try selling an increase in that when there are cuts in public services, tax rises and a cost of living crisis.

    The 0.7% GDP International Aid target is establishment virtue signalling.

    Utterly stupidity.
    You do realise a percentage decreases (absolutely) as the amount it is a percentage of decreases?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457

    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Aid Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    Presume that means 0.7% GDP on Aid is back then.

    Big political mistake, if it is.
    No, that would be a positive step.
    Britain shouldn’t forfeit its global development leadership.


    No, it's utterly terrible politics. It's the one cut that's hugely popular.

    Try selling an increase in that when there are cuts in public services, tax rises and a cost of living crisis.

    The 0.7% GDP International Aid target is establishment virtue signalling.

    Utterly stupidity.
    You do realise a percentage decreases (absolutely) as the amount it is a percentage of decreases?

    Yes, and I also realise that a lower percentage is also a decrease in cash terms over a higher percentage.

    It stays at 0.5% until the end of the parliamentary or until debt starts falling as a % of GDP again.

    Any extra cash: hard defence is the priority.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    kle4 said:

    So of the 8 candidates for Conservative leader to replace Boris in the July-September contest, 7 of them are now in the Cabinet (or attending Cabinet), and the 8th was Prime Minister until today.

    That is a broad tent in fairness.

    It's not though

    Every single one of them agreed to sign up to BoZo's shitty Brexit deal.

    That's a very shallow pool to start with
  • TOPPING said:

    My view as an ex-Cons Cameroonian-inclined former Tory voter.

    Fuck 'em.

    They have started off badly in the composition of the cabinet as more of the same but slightly different and great to have a South Asian in charge but they will have to work hard to win my vote back which, looking at the new Cabinet,
    they may well struggle to do.

    Thus speaks 1/35m th of the electorate.

    Is Sunak a South Asian?
    Ancestry, not birth.
    If Truss’s great great great great grandparents were slave traders, would it be fair to call her a slave trader prime minister?

    He’s British, not south Asian

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited October 2022

    JohnO said:

    Another interesting one: Andrew Mitchell becomes Development Minister of State in the FCO and also attends Cabinet. Forget about the bloody lectern, they will be needing a new table at this rate.

    The greater the number of people attending cabinet, the less useful it is, and the greater the certainty that the real decisions will be made elsewhere, by a smaller number of people.

    Cabinet should probably be limited to no more then six members, with various subcommittees to cover other parts of government.
    How about 10?

    PM
    Deputy and Cabinet Office
    Chancellor
    Home (inc Justice)
    Foreign Affairs (inc Trade, Defence)
    Economic Devpt (inc BEIS, Transport, Digital)
    Nations and Regions (inc DLUHC)
    Education (inc Culture & Media)
    Health
    Social Security (inc Work & Pensions)


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    edited October 2022
    Nigelb said:

    This is novel.

    Meanwhile in Russia: since Putin's phony "denazification" never made any sense, now Russia's Security Council is absurdly calling for the "desatanization" of Ukraine.…
    https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1584930049480085505

    Not surprising given they're having the very devil of a time.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,840

    I’d also note that Rishi has given very little thought to the Unionist part of his job. Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish picks look like afterthoughts.

    He has however promised to phone Ms Sturgeon, and presumably Mr Drakeford, today. Which would be a trillion times faster than Ms Truss managed. NI, not sure whom he'd phone in quite the same sense of protocol, as the assembly is kaput for the moment?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,872

    Chuckle: I tried that Bing map to see what they have to say about my neighborhood -- and was amused to see that they did not have a label on the growing Google operation here, though there are small labels on "Buildings A, B, and C". Google's operation in Kirkland is recent, so the map may just not have been updated in the last few years.

    (I haven't decided whether the local Google operation is parasitic or symbiotic. If they have done much for the community here other than building a playground, I haven't heard about it.)

    Microsofties (ones still on the payroll/bonus scheme anyway) rather notorious in Seattle for volunteering for wide variety of good causes & civic endeavors . . . then mostly being AWOL.

    In contrast to Boeing (old-school pre-bean counter anyway) before "top" management declared war on Puget Sound . . . and started it's notorious nose-diving, fiscally AND aeronautically.

    Addendum - Local Amazonians so far mostly following Microsoft & Google lack-of-civic-engagement policy.
    Who can blame them why the fuck would I give up my free time unpaid to help. You all talk shit about companies owing their communities then only hold some firms to account for it. Don't see you railing against at&T for example
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,397
    JohnO said:

    Are there no Etonians in the Cabinet now? And without doing the research, have a feeling that the proportion of State educated members is somewhat higher than under Truss.

    Cleverly?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    ydoethur said:

    JohnO said:

    Are there no Etonians in the Cabinet now? And without doing the research, have a feeling that the proportion of State educated members is somewhat higher than under Truss.

    Cleverly?
    No. Public school but not Eton.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Pagan2 said:

    Chuckle: I tried that Bing map to see what they have to say about my neighborhood -- and was amused to see that they did not have a label on the growing Google operation here, though there are small labels on "Buildings A, B, and C". Google's operation in Kirkland is recent, so the map may just not have been updated in the last few years.

    (I haven't decided whether the local Google operation is parasitic or symbiotic. If they have done much for the community here other than building a playground, I haven't heard about it.)

    Microsofties (ones still on the payroll/bonus scheme anyway) rather notorious in Seattle for volunteering for wide variety of good causes & civic endeavors . . . then mostly being AWOL.

    In contrast to Boeing (old-school pre-bean counter anyway) before "top" management declared war on Puget Sound . . . and started it's notorious nose-diving, fiscally AND aeronautically.

    Addendum - Local Amazonians so far mostly following Microsoft & Google lack-of-civic-engagement policy.
    Who can blame them why the fuck would I give up my free time unpaid to help. You all talk shit about companies owing their communities then only hold some firms to account for it. Don't see you railing against at&T for example
    If they don't want to volunteer, fine, but volunteering and then not following through is crappy behaviour from any person.
  • Answer the question, Sunak
This discussion has been closed.