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What’s King Charles going to say about fracking – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 15 in General
imageWhat’s King Charles going to say about fracking – politicalbetting.com

Yesterday, before the sad news about the Queen, the new PM, Liz Truss, was talking about her plans for the UK’s future energy policy a key part of which was about changing the law that restricts fracking.  She said she wanted to lift the moratorium, brought in by the Tories, to get gas flowing from this source in as soon as six months.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,285
    Test
  • There was a play King Charles III dealing with something similar, by Mike Bartlett, 10 years ago or so. Charles stood up to the prime minister, and ended up being outfoxed and abdicating
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,444
    Fracking should be pretty good at flipping seats away from the Tories. No one wants it near them. Like taxes, fracking is best for other people.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,444
    Fascinating video of Ukranian troops being greeted as they liberate a village near Kupiansk. The supply lines to Izium are nearly cut.

    https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1567938006862168065?t=nOzkyEcylsr4zmkLCQguTw&s=19
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,062
    Foxy said:

    Fascinating video of Ukranian troops being greeted as they liberate a village near Kupiansk. The supply lines to Izium are nearly cut.

    https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1567938006862168065?t=nOzkyEcylsr4zmkLCQguTw&s=19

    People on Twitter haven't really begun thinking through the implications of the capture of Russian Lieutenant General Andrei Sychevoi.

    If Ukraine got him, they overran his headquarters and all the paper & electronic records held there...intact.

    1/8
    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1568070074568740864
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,444

    Foxy said:

    Fascinating video of Ukranian troops being greeted as they liberate a village near Kupiansk. The supply lines to Izium are nearly cut.

    https://twitter.com/Militarylandnet/status/1567938006862168065?t=nOzkyEcylsr4zmkLCQguTw&s=19

    People on Twitter haven't really begun thinking through the implications of the capture of Russian Lieutenant General Andrei Sychevoi.

    If Ukraine got him, they overran his headquarters and all the paper & electronic records held there...intact.

    1/8
    https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1568070074568740864
    It doesn't seem a definite identification, but if true, quite a major capture.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,859
    Dammit, yesterday wasn’t a dream.

    The Queen is dead. Long live the King!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,859
    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 59,659
    Good morning, everyone.

    First full day of King Charles III's reign. Only 23,226 to go to beat Her Majesty.
  • Looking at newspaper front pages, the Times, Guardian, i and Star will be wondering how they all chose near-identical coronation photographs.

    The Mirror's front page is best: The Mirror chooses a more recent photo of the Queen, showing her famous profile. The paper decides against a headline, instead simply saying: "Thank you."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62845155
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 3,849
    edited September 9
    I see that Redfield & Wilton had a 12% Labour lead last night to add to YouGov's 15%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2022

    So no sign of a Truss bounce but I didn't think there would be. People are tired of these tories, viscerally so. There is nothing now that Truss or the tories can do to avert calamity at the next General Election.

    Their lurch to the Right viz fracking etc. etc. is only going to bury them further. People are tired of all this shit.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416
    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    This is a (very long) brilliant thread on some issue about the European electric grid, which haven’t really been discussed.

    https://twitter.com/BurggrabenH/status/1567929354302242818
    The European electricity grid is a modern miracle. It is the largest synchronous electrical grid (by connected power) in the world. It interconnects 520 million end-customers in 32 countries, including non-European Union members such as Morocco or Turkey.

    Which (in passing) explains why both wind and nuclear are rather desirable parts of the energy mix, while explaining thing could get quite hairy.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 17,281
    edited September 9
    deleted
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,846
    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,210

    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.

    There are plenty of people in Government who will readily tell you that Charles is not shy in coming forward with his opinions. You may recall the prolonged battle by the Guardian to FOI his correspondence with Government.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    Interesting Avatar, Dura. What's the story behind it?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642

    Looking at newspaper front pages, the Times, Guardian, i and Star will be wondering how they all chose near-identical coronation photographs.

    The Mirror's front page is best: The Mirror chooses a more recent photo of the Queen, showing her famous profile. The paper decides against a headline, instead simply saying: "Thank you."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62845155

    Talk about solipsism from the Mail. Sarah Vine's name prominent on the front page just below the photo of HMQ. Yuk.
  • There was a play King Charles III dealing with something similar, by Mike Bartlett, 10 years ago or so. Charles stood up to the prime minister, and ended up being outfoxed and abdicating

    It was very good.

    Rather crucially, however, it was a work of fiction.

    Regarding King Charles and fracking, he's not, as far as I'm aware, offererd a view as Prince and is even less likely to do so as King. Indeed, at one point there was some talk (which may not be reliable) about him being rather interested in the potential as a source of income as a rather major landowner.

    I think there is more prospect of some conflict over renewables, although I think Truss' "anti" renewables position in the leadership contest is pretty likely to soften quite a lot. Saying you don't like how PV farms or windfarms look to groups of Tory pensioners has a very strong feeling of feeding them the bullsh*t you think they want to hear. In practice, I think she's going to want to preserve and extend generation capacity across the board - she sees more opportunities and fewer drawbacks in fossil fuels than others, but also sees increased renewables as playing a role (and nuclear, of course).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,616
    Nigelb said:

    This is a (very long) brilliant thread on some issue about the European electric grid, which haven’t really been discussed.

    https://twitter.com/BurggrabenH/status/1567929354302242818
    The European electricity grid is a modern miracle. It is the largest synchronous electrical grid (by connected power) in the world. It interconnects 520 million end-customers in 32 countries, including non-European Union members such as Morocco or Turkey.

    Which (in passing) explains why both wind and nuclear are rather desirable parts of the energy mix, while explaining thing could get quite hairy.

    It is an interesting if slightly worrying thread.

    Presumably the net importers (Italy, Austria, Hungary) will be disconnected and face power outages if tyhe grid comes under too much strain?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    Interesting Avatar, Dura. What's the story behind it?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642
    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    A lot of Irish related stuff. This seems to have woken or scratched that wound in particular.
  • The front pages are interesting. They mostly get it right, the mawkish Mail being the exception.

    The Star is best. They really do have some top people working for them.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,200

    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.

    There are plenty of people in Government who will readily tell you that Charles is not shy in coming forward with his opinions. You may recall the prolonged battle by the Guardian to FOI his correspondence with Government.
    It is sad that the age of 'informed aloofness' represented is probably finished.
    I just can't see Charles's interventions, as interesting as they sometimes are, being particularly welcome or useful in developing policy, even if they are just in private. Truss is already going on about wanting to sort out the planning system, something Charles is known to be obsessed with.
    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.
  • Heathener said:

    I see that Redfield & Wilton had a 12% Labour lead last night to add to YouGov's 15%.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#2022

    So no sign of a Truss bounce but I didn't think there would be. People are tired of these tories, viscerally so. There is nothing now that Truss or the tories can do to avert calamity at the next General Election.

    Their lurch to the Right viz fracking etc. etc. is only going to bury them further. People are tired of all this shit.

    I don't think she is going to get a bounce at all, H.

    Looks like OGH will be losing his money for once. No Tory lead looking likely before....well, when's Haley's Comet due again?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,092
    I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    The local earthquakes will be felt a fair while before profits are made and taxes flow to pay for these cheques.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    Interesting Avatar, Dura. What's the story behind it?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows
    I thought it was a tribute to that immortal scene in Four Lions.

    https://youtu.be/mymTX-psg5c
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,416
    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
  • I refuse to sing God Save The King.

    I used to mumble my way through God Save The Queen but nope, God Save The King ain't happening.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    Interesting Avatar, Dura. What's the story behind it?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows
    Ausgezeichnet!
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,119
    edited September 9
    darkage said:

    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.

    There are plenty of people in Government who will readily tell you that Charles is not shy in coming forward with his opinions. You may recall the prolonged battle by the Guardian to FOI his correspondence with Government.
    It is sad that the age of 'informed aloofness' represented is probably finished.
    I just can't see Charles's interventions, as interesting as they sometimes are, being particularly welcome or useful in developing policy, even if they are just in private. Truss is already going on about wanting to sort out the planning system, something Charles is known to be obsessed with.
    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.
    It’s a monarchy. You don’t get an option. You get what the gene pool throws up. Nature of the beast and all that.

    We all know all things considered by far the best next monarch would have been the Princess Royal. But that’s not how it works.
  • The front pages are interesting. They mostly get it right, the mawkish Mail being the exception.

    The Star is best. They really do have some top people working for them.

    Like most right-thinking Brits, my immediate thought on hearing the sad news was "Yeah, but what does SARAH VINE reckon about it? We must hear from SARAH VINE." So the Mail very much ticks all the boxes.
  • I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    You assume the doctors had no warning death was imminent; otherwise, they would simply have summoned the family 12 (or however many) hours sooner.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,210
    In other news, I see the speculation about Liz Truss’s jewellery has made it outside PB.

    http://twitter.com/BNHWalker/status/1568002634329497600
  • I refuse to sing God Save The King.

    I used to mumble my way through God Save The Queen but nope, God Save The King ain't happening.

    You are almost every member of every England team that has ever lined up for an international match in any sport, and I claim my £5.
  • Foxy said:

    Fracking should be pretty good at flipping seats away from the Tories. No one wants it near them. Like taxes, fracking is best for other people.

    This is the point I don't get. We know from other markets that fracking is seriously fracking disruptive. It isn't a couple of wells to get the gas, its dozens. So when people say "we want fracking" are they envisaging such wells all over their parks? Or in their own garden? Or in a local beauty spot? Nope - its Someone Else's Problem.

    We know how planning works in this country. People like planning when it benefits them but only inconveniences others. So unless all the frackable reserves happen to be in solid Labour seats, this will be a Bad issue for the Tories.

    Prediction Ed "I banned fracking" Davey will go to town in opposition. And see a sizeable boost in targeted support across swathes of southern Tory / LibDem swing seats.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,092

    I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    You assume the doctors had no warning death was imminent; otherwise, they would simply have summoned the family 12 (or however many) hours sooner.
    I think Charles flew up on Wednesday evening, didn't he?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,092
    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    And, you will blow it.
  • TOPPING said:

    Muppets. Calling off the racing would I'm sure be the very last thing HMQ would have wanted.

    My understanding is a lot of things are now going to be cancelled between now and a few days after the funeral as the rozzers/emergency services are re-deployed for the funeral (and procession down from Scotland.)
  • Very sad news from Aberdeenshire yesterday. An outstanding woman came to the end of an extraordinary life. One wonders how many young women would have been able to sacrifice their entire lifetime on public service when the abdication changed her fate forever. Not many I suspect. What achievements she would have made in horse racing for example if her talent had been focused on that endeavour?

    My thoughts are with her family and friends, and the many millions of royalists around the world. I was at a large international business event yesterday evening when the news slowly rippled round the room - dominated by Nordic and UK businesspeople - and there were many red eyes from normally hard-nosed CEOs etc. My darling wife needed consoling, as did my staunchly royalist mother via the phone. But what surprised me a little was how upset so many Swedes were, including our daughter, who is not prone to sentimentality.

    When I got home, in a reflective mood, I took down the fantastic photograph of Her Majesty and my father that adorns the wall in our living room. Taken in the mid-70s, when she visited the organisation my father ran, it is a gorgeous little time capsule: the queen beaming from ear to ear and looking in the prime of her motherly beauty (she was a handsome lady), dad - a huge Rangers acolyte since he was in short trousers - looking like he’d just won the lottery. The Lord Provost with his heavy gold chain and his cheeky wee wife, and the various bad haircuts typical of the 70s! I took a snap of the photo and sent it to my wider family, with the message Remember the good bits.

    All the very best to King Charles III.

    Shortly after the news hit the room, I got chatting to Anders Borg, probably the best Finance Minister in the world when the 2008 crisis happened (Fredrik Reinfeldt’s right-hand man). A lovely chap, he, like most politicians, had lots of great stories, including about both the Swedish and the UK royal families. I won’t print the amazing story about Charles when he encountered him on a hunting trip to Scotland, but let me just say that Borg couldn’t speak highly enough of him, and thinks he will do an outstanding job. (He was *far* less complimentary about Brexit and his erstwhile colleagues in the Conservative Party across the North Sea, but today is not the day for that.)

    Scotland’s Queen, who can trace her line back to the great Fergus, is dead. Long live our new King!

    Surely as this royal family can only really trace its line back to the imposed George !. When 56 descendants with better claims are bypassed for ze Germans. OK, so he was a great-grandson of James VI/I, but so what when you have to ignore all the actual close relatives and go a long long way down the line because of religious zealotry?
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 4,174
    edited September 9

    Foxy said:

    Fracking should be pretty good at flipping seats away from the Tories. No one wants it near them. Like taxes, fracking is best for other people.

    This is the point I don't get. We know from other markets that fracking is seriously fracking disruptive. It isn't a couple of wells to get the gas, its dozens. So when people say "we want fracking" are they envisaging such wells all over their parks? Or in their own garden? Or in a local beauty spot? Nope - its Someone Else's Problem.

    We know how planning works in this country. People like planning when it benefits them but only inconveniences others. So unless all the frackable reserves happen to be in solid Labour seats, this will be a Bad issue for the Tories.

    Prediction Ed "I banned fracking" Davey will go to town in opposition. And see a sizeable boost in targeted support across swathes of southern Tory / LibDem swing seats.
    I tend to agree with this.

    This is one where we may see the issue of Truss's political judgment come into play. My instinct is she is personally convinced by it, and that will cloud her view on the economic practicality, her own ability to sell it politically, and the extent to which it hands a big stick to opponents to beat her with in some parts of the country.
  • On topic, nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,092

    darkage said:

    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.

    There are plenty of people in Government who will readily tell you that Charles is not shy in coming forward with his opinions. You may recall the prolonged battle by the Guardian to FOI his correspondence with Government.
    It is sad that the age of 'informed aloofness' represented is probably finished.
    I just can't see Charles's interventions, as interesting as they sometimes are, being particularly welcome or useful in developing policy, even if they are just in private. Truss is already going on about wanting to sort out the planning system, something Charles is known to be obsessed with.
    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.
    It’s a monarchy. You don’t get an option. You get what the gene pool throws up. Nature of the beast and all that.

    We all know all things considered by far the best next monarch would have been the Princess Royal. But that’s not how it works.
    You salute the rank, not the man.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642
    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,200
    edited September 9
    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    There was an extremely hateful and offensive tweet going around by a Carnegie Mellon professor (a 'critical race theorist') yesterday. It will of course be ignored/forgiven. But this type of thing will only assist the Republicans return to power.

    The thing is, that the tweet now gets screenshotted, so the 'moderation' of the tweet doesn't stop it circulating.

  • I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    When Truss and Starmer were informed in the chamber and pretty much immediately abandoned the hugely anticipated, massively important energy debate, and the BBC quickly went into the rolling news thing, on the strength of the short statement saying there were concerns about her health but that she was comfortable, that’s when she died. Midday-ish, give or take. That’s what I think.

    It was quite a short, bland statement from the Palace, but everything went into overdrive on the back of it. She was dead by then, must’ve been.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    Dura_Ace said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    Interesting Avatar, Dura. What's the story behind it?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Arrows
    Have you broken with Lenin ?

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,092

    I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    When Truss and Starmer were informed in the chamber and pretty much immediately abandoned the hugely anticipated, massively important energy debate, and the BBC quickly went into the rolling news thing, on the strength of the short statement saying there were concerns about her health but that she was comfortable, that’s when she died. Midday-ish, give or take. That’s what I think.

    It was quite a short, bland statement from the Palace, but everything went into overdrive on the back of it. She was dead by then, must’ve been.

    Exactly.
  • I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    You assume the doctors had no warning death was imminent; otherwise, they would simply have summoned the family 12 (or however many) hours sooner.
    I think Charles flew up on Wednesday evening, didn't he?
    Not sure; I was not really following royal events. Certainly, the Queen did not have a full set of children around until the Wessexes arrived with William (and Andrew?) yesterday afternoon. We might wonder if Her Majesty was on, say, assisted ventilation towards the end but unless she tumbled down a particularly long staircase, I'd imagine there would be a fair warning. That has been my limited and non-royal experience of people dying in hospital.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 36,642

    TOPPING said:

    Muppets. Calling off the racing would I'm sure be the very last thing HMQ would have wanted.

    My understanding is a lot of things are now going to be cancelled between now and a few days after the funeral as the rozzers/emergency services are re-deployed for the funeral (and procession down from Scotland.)
    I wouldn't have thought the evening meeting at Wolverhampton would suck up too many policing resources.

    And the funeral/procession from Scotland? Absurd that you have to cancel the Last Night of the Proms in order to man the level crossing at Barnack.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,119
    edited September 9
    TOPPING said:

    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.

    I hate to say it but we’ve probably got another 2 weeks of this at least.

    I think you can comfort yourself that I can’t imagine any figure will get the “full works” treatment again. Her passing is the end of an era and I suspect when members of the royal family pass in future it will be much more toned down (taking over the airwaves for that day and the morning and evening schedules of the next then back to normal until the funeral day).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990

    Very sad news from Aberdeenshire yesterday. An outstanding woman came to the end of an extraordinary life. One wonders how many young women would have been able to sacrifice their entire lifetime on public service when the abdication changed her fate forever. Not many I suspect. What achievements she would have made in horse racing for example if her talent had been focused on that endeavour?

    My thoughts are with her family and friends, and the many millions of royalists around the world. I was at a large international business event yesterday evening when the news slowly rippled round the room - dominated by Nordic and UK businesspeople - and there were many red eyes from normally hard-nosed CEOs etc. My darling wife needed consoling, as did my staunchly royalist mother via the phone. But what surprised me a little was how upset so many Swedes were, including our daughter, who is not prone to sentimentality.

    When I got home, in a reflective mood, I took down the fantastic photograph of Her Majesty and my father that adorns the wall in our living room. Taken in the mid-70s, when she visited the organisation my father ran, it is a gorgeous little time capsule: the queen beaming from ear to ear and looking in the prime of her motherly beauty (she was a handsome lady), dad - a huge Rangers acolyte since he was in short trousers - looking like he’d just won the lottery. The Lord Provost with his heavy gold chain and his cheeky wee wife, and the various bad haircuts typical of the 70s! I took a snap of the photo and sent it to my wider family, with the message Remember the good bits.

    All the very best to King Charles III.

    Shortly after the news hit the room, I got chatting to Anders Borg, probably the best Finance Minister in the world when the 2008 crisis happened (Fredrik Reinfeldt’s right-hand man). A lovely chap, he, like most politicians, had lots of great stories, including about both the Swedish and the UK royal families. I won’t print the amazing story about Charles when he encountered him on a hunting trip to Scotland, but let me just say that Borg couldn’t speak highly enough of him, and thinks he will do an outstanding job. (He was *far* less complimentary about Brexit and his erstwhile colleagues in the Conservative Party across the North Sea, but today is not the day for that.)

    Scotland’s Queen, who can trace her line back to the great Fergus, is dead. Long live our new King!

    Surely as this royal family can only really trace its line back to the imposed George !. When 56 descendants with better claims are bypassed for ze Germans. OK, so he was a great-grandson of James VI/I, but so what when you have to ignore all the actual close relatives and go a long long way down the line because of religious zealotry?
    You don't have to ignore them - they were excluded from the succession by Act of Parliament. Which is largely why we became a constitutional monarchy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    On topic, nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump

    He also attended Aberystwyth as a postgrad.

    Proving, once again, the superiority of Aber over all unis in the country.
  • I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    I doubt we'll ever find out, although we already know that Truss was officially informed at 4:30pm and Jacinda Ahern was at 5:50pm our time. It certainly will have taken time even before the PM was officially told.

    We're unlikely to ever be officially told, but certainly suspect that she'd died when the commotion in the Commons began yesterday.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 19,485
    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I think locals to fracking sites will get reduced gas bills, which they will no doubt be delighted with.

    To answer the thread, Truss's plans will of course continue unaffected - this is an energy crisis. The King (have to get used to that!) will not pick a fight whereby his wealth, privilege and power is used to stamp on something that could reduce ordinary peoples' fuel bills.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,200

    Foxy said:

    Fracking should be pretty good at flipping seats away from the Tories. No one wants it near them. Like taxes, fracking is best for other people.

    This is the point I don't get. We know from other markets that fracking is seriously fracking disruptive. It isn't a couple of wells to get the gas, its dozens. So when people say "we want fracking" are they envisaging such wells all over their parks? Or in their own garden? Or in a local beauty spot? Nope - its Someone Else's Problem.

    We know how planning works in this country. People like planning when it benefits them but only inconveniences others. So unless all the frackable reserves happen to be in solid Labour seats, this will be a Bad issue for the Tories.

    Prediction Ed "I banned fracking" Davey will go to town in opposition. And see a sizeable boost in targeted support across swathes of southern Tory / LibDem swing seats.
    This is the missed opportunity by Labour, in my view. They should have played the conservatives game.
    What they could do, is find an area of the south east which is not an AONB, and is safely conservative, and announce that they are going to build 2 million homes there in the next 10 years, with planning permission granted by an emergency act of Parliament in the first 100 days of being elected, thus circumventing the planning process.
    Call it 'Epping 2032' or something.
    Then, announce that it will be 50% affordable housing, reserved for people in Labour constituencies who cannot secure housing on the open market.
    To try and create 'sustainable/mixed/balanced communities'.
    A million homes for those failed by the tories etc over the past 12 years etc.
    Further phases could then be rolled out in affluent rural areas where they stand no chance of being elected.
    From a labour point of view, where is the downside?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,411

    I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    Most people posting here yesterday afternoon, were writing that she is probably already dead. The immediate switch by the BBC annd the black ties on all media were a pretty good indication. Think about it the other way round, If she had been very ill but might have hung on for another week, then the media outlets would have been accused of extreme bad taste, in "preempting" the monarch's death.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    And, you will blow it.
    No we won't, the window has gone already realistically.

    Had the Queen passed in the 90s then Charles would have provided ample opportunity to abolish the monarchy, but time has moved on since the 90s. Now Charles himself is a grandad and an old man already, just as his Queen was.

    We won't see the likes of the Queen again, we now have a monarchy of geriatrics. Not sure what's coming next, but I don't expect republicanism to get any head of steam - but nor do I expect any future monarch to be as appreciated or loved as The Queen was.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,778

    TOPPING said:

    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.

    I hate to say it but we’ve probably got another 2 weeks of this at least.

    I think you can comfort yourself that I can’t imagine any figure will get the “full works” treatment again. Her passing is the end of an era and I suspect when members of the royal family pass in future it will be much more toned down (taking over the airwaves for that day and the morning and evening schedules of the next then back to normal until the funeral day).
    It is quite annoying. Obviously something important has happened, and it means a lot to me too. For example, I will almost certainly watch her funeral on the telly and I imagine I will raise a glass afterwards with friends in her memory and to the King's health. I may wear a black tie to work when I am back from holiday next week.

    But there is literally no news, so why keep going on about it?

    I was out yesterday for a good lunch and a few beers so I'd quite like to catch up with what's happening on the Izyum front and what will happen to my gas bill next month.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,177

    I've been a bit slow on this but i reckon HMQ actually died yesterday morning, and possibly even earlier, and doctors are "very concerned and she's under close medical supervision" was code for she's died and had her doctors standing over her with a coroner whilst the process went into effect.

    She 'officially' died only when all her family were there, and they were ready to announce it, but it wasn't at 6.30pm or 4.30pm. It was more like 12.30pm, or possibly in the small hours of the morning since overnight is most likely.

    We will find out more in the coming days and weeks.

    When Truss and Starmer were informed in the chamber and pretty much immediately abandoned the hugely anticipated, massively important energy debate, and the BBC quickly went into the rolling news thing, on the strength of the short statement saying there were concerns about her health but that she was comfortable, that’s when she died. Midday-ish, give or take. That’s what I think.

    It was quite a short, bland statement from the Palace, but everything went into overdrive on the back of it. She was dead by then, must’ve been.

    I think you could well be right; how different from the treatment given to her grandfather!

    And good morning one and all; not as bright here today. At least Essex got the win over Kent in the cricket!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,610
    Morning.

    How long do I have to be sad for?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 44,990
    I think he will run again.
    He's enjoying it too much to quit.

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1568020355520024576
    Biden does an impression of Republicans trying to take credit for legislation they didn’t vote...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,765

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I think locals to fracking sites will get reduced gas bills, which they will no doubt be delighted with.

    To answer the thread, Truss's plans will of course continue unaffected - this is an energy crisis. The King (have to get used to that!) will not pick a fight whereby his wealth, privilege and power is used to stamp on something that could reduce ordinary peoples' fuel bills.
    Well it remains to be seen doesn't it?
    If the queen ever picked a fight on anything, it was done in such a way that the public never really found out about. And so she retained huge public support,and the monarchy endured. Does Charles have the wisdom to follow? Or does he see himself as a political actor? I genuinely don't know.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,778

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    And, you will blow it.
    No we won't, the window has gone already realistically.

    Had the Queen passed in the 90s then Charles would have provided ample opportunity to abolish the monarchy, but time has moved on since the 90s. Now Charles himself is a grandad and an old man already, just as his Queen was.

    We won't see the likes of the Queen again, we now have a monarchy of geriatrics. Not sure what's coming next, but I don't expect republicanism to get any head of steam - but nor do I expect any future monarch to be as appreciated or loved as The Queen was.
    It's quite possible Charles may say he will step down when he reaches a certain age.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,411
    Stocky said:

    Morning.

    How long do I have to be sad for?

    Two words could be reversed and have almost the same meaning.
    "Sad ...... How long do I have to be in mourning for?"

  • ydoethur said:

    On topic, nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump

    He also attended Aberystwyth as a postgrad.

    Proving, once again, the superiority of Aber over all unis in the country.
    ...


  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 4,174
    edited September 9

    Looking at newspaper front pages, the Times, Guardian, i and Star will be wondering how they all chose near-identical coronation photographs.

    The Mirror's front page is best: The Mirror chooses a more recent photo of the Queen, showing her famous profile. The paper decides against a headline, instead simply saying: "Thank you."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62845155

    On a tangential point, does anyone know why the Financial Times is routinely excluded from the reviews of the front pages?

    I believe it shifts more physical copies than the Guardian (which admittedly has a big online presence, but then the FT has a very high digital subscription rate and international reach). It also tends to have a slightly different angle (not today, I suspect, but more broadly). Its journalism is more "real" than the Express, say, which has slightly higher circulation but is really just phoning it in on a skeleton staff - it doesn't break stories.

    Is it a view that the Great Unwashed won't give a stuff about the pink'un? Or do the FT themselves object to it?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,778
    darkage said:

    Foxy said:

    Fracking should be pretty good at flipping seats away from the Tories. No one wants it near them. Like taxes, fracking is best for other people.

    This is the point I don't get. We know from other markets that fracking is seriously fracking disruptive. It isn't a couple of wells to get the gas, its dozens. So when people say "we want fracking" are they envisaging such wells all over their parks? Or in their own garden? Or in a local beauty spot? Nope - its Someone Else's Problem.

    We know how planning works in this country. People like planning when it benefits them but only inconveniences others. So unless all the frackable reserves happen to be in solid Labour seats, this will be a Bad issue for the Tories.

    Prediction Ed "I banned fracking" Davey will go to town in opposition. And see a sizeable boost in targeted support across swathes of southern Tory / LibDem swing seats.
    This is the missed opportunity by Labour, in my view. They should have played the conservatives game.
    What they could do, is find an area of the south east which is not an AONB, and is safely conservative, and announce that they are going to build 2 million homes there in the next 10 years, with planning permission granted by an emergency act of Parliament in the first 100 days of being elected, thus circumventing the planning process.
    Call it 'Epping 2032' or something.
    Then, announce that it will be 50% affordable housing, reserved for people in Labour constituencies who cannot secure housing on the open market.
    To try and create 'sustainable/mixed/balanced communities'.
    A million homes for those failed by the tories etc over the past 12 years etc.
    Further phases could then be rolled out in affluent rural areas where they stand no chance of being elected.
    From a labour point of view, where is the downside?
    I would vote for that, and I'm normally a Tory voter.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 675
    Fracking: Looks like Blackpool North, Blackpool South, Fleetwood and Wyre, will flip to Labour as a result, and the mighty Conservative Fylde seat will have a much reduced majority.
    Interestingly I am a Lib Dem voter but agree with Fracking ouch!!!!
    But anything to get votes!!!!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,610
    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    There was an extremely hateful and offensive tweet going around by a Carnegie Mellon professor (a 'critical race theorist') yesterday. It will of course be ignored/forgiven. But this type of thing will only assist the Republicans return to power.

    The thing is, that the tweet now gets screenshotted, so the 'moderation' of the tweet doesn't stop it circulating.

    Do you support attempts to stop it?

    It could be attacked bit by bit - but it's such shite it isn't worthy of that. It may help alert a wider audience to the sort of people that now infect and influence our educational and other institutions.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    darkage said:

    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.

    There are plenty of people in Government who will readily tell you that Charles is not shy in coming forward with his opinions. You may recall the prolonged battle by the Guardian to FOI his correspondence with Government.
    It is sad that the age of 'informed aloofness' represented is probably finished.
    I just can't see Charles's interventions, as interesting as they sometimes are, being particularly welcome or useful in developing policy, even if they are just in private. Truss is already going on about wanting to sort out the planning system, something Charles is known to be obsessed with.
    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.
    If the aim was continuity, we should have made Mary Berry Queen.
  • TOPPING said:

    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.

    I hate to say it but we’ve probably got another 2 weeks of this at least.

    I think you can comfort yourself that I can’t imagine any figure will get the “full works” treatment again. Her passing is the end of an era and I suspect when members of the royal family pass in future it will be much more toned down (taking over the airwaves for that day and the morning and evening schedules of the next then back to normal until the funeral day).
    It is quite annoying. Obviously something important has happened, and it means a lot to me too. For example, I will almost certainly watch her funeral on the telly and I imagine I will raise a glass afterwards with friends in her memory and to the King's health. I may wear a black tie to work when I am back from holiday next week.

    But there is literally no news, so why keep going on about it?

    I was out yesterday for a good lunch and a few beers so I'd quite like to catch up with what's happening on the Izyum front and what will happen to my gas bill next month.
    With luck, the Establishment will have learned from the death of Prince Philip. Wall-to-wall coverage quickly becomes overwhelming when there is nothing new to say, when there is no news.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 48,092
    Welby gets it right on BBC News.

    Pays touching respect to HMQ but also says it runs in the family, and he's seen it in King Charles too. He was bridging & teeing him up.

    Makes me realise there's a number of people playing constitutional roles right now.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,119
    edited September 9

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    And, you will blow it.
    No we won't, the window has gone already realistically.

    Had the Queen passed in the 90s then Charles would have provided ample opportunity to abolish the monarchy, but time has moved on since the 90s. Now Charles himself is a grandad and an old man already, just as his Queen was.

    We won't see the likes of the Queen again, we now have a monarchy of geriatrics. Not sure what's coming next, but I don't expect republicanism to get any head of steam - but nor do I expect any future monarch to be as appreciated or loved as The Queen was.
    It's quite possible Charles may say he will step down when he reaches a certain age.
    I think (absent short sudden illness or accident) that is right. We will move to a model of abdication and planned succession. The queen had very particular views about her reign founded largely in religious attitudes that have passed, and on a deep aversion to abdication given the crisis of the 1930s.

    Others do not have that experience or attitude. I don’t believe Charles deep down believes he has been ordained by god to reign until that same god calls him to meet his maker. When even Popes are abdicating now (an office I thought would never move away from ending only in death) I see no reason why the British monarchy will hold out.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump

    He also attended Aberystwyth as a postgrad.

    Proving, once again, the superiority of Aber over all unis in the country.
    ...


    Well, there you are. Aber can polish them right up even after dud A-levels and a time at Cambridge.

    Mind, I wouldn't go bail for managing the same with Oxford.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,765

    I refuse to sing God Save The King.

    I used to mumble my way through God Save The Queen but nope, God Save The King ain't happening.

    Me too.
    I'm a lot wishy-washier than you on the republican-royalist spectrum, but I can barely bring myself to utter the words 'the king'.
    The Queen was always part of the landscape. Anachronistic, but unthreatening because she had always been there. I don't mind an anachronism. But 'The King' sounds weirdly medieval and Gormenghastly.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 463
    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613
    Ratters said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
    If Australia isn't a republic within three years I shall be very surprised.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 2,644
    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    There was an extremely hateful and offensive tweet going around by a Carnegie Mellon professor (a 'critical race theorist') yesterday. It will of course be ignored/forgiven. But this type of thing will only assist the Republicans return to power.

    The thing is, that the tweet now gets screenshotted, so the 'moderation' of the tweet doesn't stop it circulating.

    Ironic if a party called the Republicans are aided by sentiment for a monarch.
  • darkage said:

    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.

    There are plenty of people in Government who will readily tell you that Charles is not shy in coming forward with his opinions. You may recall the prolonged battle by the Guardian to FOI his correspondence with Government.
    It is sad that the age of 'informed aloofness' represented is probably finished.
    I just can't see Charles's interventions, as interesting as they sometimes are, being particularly welcome or useful in developing policy, even if they are just in private. Truss is already going on about wanting to sort out the planning system, something Charles is known to be obsessed with.
    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.
    If the aim was continuity, we should have made Mary Berry Queen.
    Instead it went to Mr Kipling.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 31,973

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I'm inclined to believe @rcs1000's comment on UK fracking: that it is not economically viable even at current prices, and therefore an irrelevance.
    But there's another aspect to this: energy security. *If* we need gas supplies in the medium term, and gas supplies means buying from abroad, then we're putting ourselves somewhat in Germany's position today (albeit in a lesser way due to North Sea gas).

    How much is energy security worth? How much extra are we willing to pay for our gas to avoid this sort of mess happening again?

    Even if fracking is not economically viable, it may be a wise thing to do.

    (Personally, I'm on the fence about it.)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 7,765

    Very sad news from Aberdeenshire yesterday. An outstanding woman came to the end of an extraordinary life. One wonders how many young women would have been able to sacrifice their entire lifetime on public service when the abdication changed her fate forever. Not many I suspect. What achievements she would have made in horse racing for example if her talent had been focused on that endeavour?

    My thoughts are with her family and friends, and the many millions of royalists around the world. I was at a large international business event yesterday evening when the news slowly rippled round the room - dominated by Nordic and UK businesspeople - and there were many red eyes from normally hard-nosed CEOs etc. My darling wife needed consoling, as did my staunchly royalist mother via the phone. But what surprised me a little was how upset so many Swedes were, including our daughter, who is not prone to sentimentality.

    When I got home, in a reflective mood, I took down the fantastic photograph of Her Majesty and my father that adorns the wall in our living room. Taken in the mid-70s, when she visited the organisation my father ran, it is a gorgeous little time capsule: the queen beaming from ear to ear and looking in the prime of her motherly beauty (she was a handsome lady), dad - a huge Rangers acolyte since he was in short trousers - looking like he’d just won the lottery. The Lord Provost with his heavy gold chain and his cheeky wee wife, and the various bad haircuts typical of the 70s! I took a snap of the photo and sent it to my wider family, with the message Remember the good bits.

    All the very best to King Charles III.

    Shortly after the news hit the room, I got chatting to Anders Borg, probably the best Finance Minister in the world when the 2008 crisis happened (Fredrik Reinfeldt’s right-hand man). A lovely chap, he, like most politicians, had lots of great stories, including about both the Swedish and the UK royal families. I won’t print the amazing story about Charles when he encountered him on a hunting trip to Scotland, but let me just say that Borg couldn’t speak highly enough of him, and thinks he will do an outstanding job. (He was *far* less complimentary about Brexit and his erstwhile colleagues in the Conservative Party across the North Sea, but today is not the day for that.)

    Scotland’s Queen, who can trace her line back to the great Fergus, is dead. Long live our new King!

    Surely as this royal family can only really trace its line back to the imposed George !. When 56 descendants with better claims are bypassed for ze Germans. OK, so he was a great-grandson of James VI/I, but so what when you have to ignore all the actual close relatives and go a long long way down the line because of religious zealotry?
    But George I still had ancestors. One of whom was James I/VI.
  • TOPPING said:

    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.

    I hate to say it but we’ve probably got another 2 weeks of this at least.

    I think you can comfort yourself that I can’t imagine any figure will get the “full works” treatment again. Her passing is the end of an era and I suspect when members of the royal family pass in future it will be much more toned down (taking over the airwaves for that day and the morning and evening schedules of the next then back to normal until the funeral day).

    It is quite annoying. Obviously
    something important has happened, and it means a lot to me too. For example, I will almost certainly watch her funeral on the telly and I imagine I will raise a glass afterwards with friends in her memory and to the King's health. I may wear a black tie to work when I am back from holiday next week.

    But there is literally no news, so why keep going on about it?

    I was out yesterday for a good lunch and a few beers so I'd quite like to catch up with what's happening on the Izyum front and what will happen to my gas bill next month.
    With luck, the Establishment will have learned from the death of Prince Philip. Wall-to-wall coverage quickly becomes
    overwhelming when there is nothing new to say, when there is no news.
    Fat chance, sadly

    Prepare yourself for 2 weeks of boredom
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 1,837
    ydoethur said:

    On topic, nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump

    He also attended Aberystwyth as a postgrad.

    Proving, once again, the superiority of Aber over all unis in the country.
    I think he actually took a term off from Cambridge to spend at Aberystwyth, prior to graduation.

    My favourite King Charles story is how he led a platoon of schoolboys from Gordonstoun into a pub and demanded beer all round, for which he was somewhat hypocritically chastised in the press as an under-age drinker. In this respect he takes after his grandmother rather than the late Queen.
  • All of the tributes to the Queen just highlight how bereft the country now is - Chuck will pale in comparison.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,778

    TOPPING said:

    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.

    I hate to say it but we’ve probably got another 2 weeks of this at least.

    I think you can comfort yourself that I can’t imagine any figure will get the “full works” treatment again. Her passing is the end of an era and I suspect when members of the royal family pass in future it will be much more toned down (taking over the airwaves for that day and the morning and evening schedules of the next then back to normal until the funeral day).
    It is quite annoying. Obviously something important has happened, and it means a lot to me too. For example, I will almost certainly watch her funeral on the telly and I imagine I will raise a glass afterwards with friends in her memory and to the King's health. I may wear a black tie to work when I am back from holiday next week.

    But there is literally no news, so why keep going on about it?

    I was out yesterday for a good lunch and a few beers so I'd quite like to catch up with what's happening on the Izyum front and what will happen to my gas bill next month.
    With luck, the Establishment will have learned from the death of Prince Philip. Wall-to-wall coverage quickly becomes overwhelming when there is nothing new to say, when there is no news.
    There is already nothing to say. The Queen lies dead and Charles is King. Nothing has changed since yesterday afternoon. When we know about her funeral arrangements, let us know.

    Until then just do a short piece after each news headlines and then actually give us some news.

    "Important" doesn't mean wittering on about nothing, when you have nothing to say.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,610
    Cookie said:

    I refuse to sing God Save The King.

    I used to mumble my way through God Save The Queen but nope, God Save The King ain't happening.

    Me too.
    I'm a lot wishy-washier than you on the republican-royalist spectrum, but I can barely bring myself to utter the words 'the king'.
    The Queen was always part of the landscape. Anachronistic, but unthreatening because she had always been there. I don't mind an anachronism. But 'The King' sounds weirdly medieval and Gormenghastly.
    Seems a small thing to be bothered about to me. We'll get used to it after a while and in time reflect how odd 'the queen' sounds.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    There was an extremely hateful and offensive tweet going around by a Carnegie Mellon professor (a 'critical race theorist') yesterday. It will of course be ignored/forgiven. But this type of thing will only assist the Republicans return to power.

    The thing is, that the tweet now gets screenshotted, so the 'moderation' of the tweet doesn't stop it circulating.

    Ironic if a party called the Republicans are aided by sentiment for a monarch.
    Trump will be delighted that his plans for a familial succession have received such a fillip.

    Mind, the last parent/child combo of Presidents were Republicans even if the first are now claimed by the Democrats.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 4,119
    ydoethur said:

    Ratters said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
    If Australia isn't a republic within three years I shall be very surprised.
    I’d be quite surprised if there are any Commonwealth realms left by the end of the decade (NZ and Canada might hold out a touch longer, I suppose). An anachronism that was sustained by deference to Her Maj, but in 2022 looks incredibly out of place. That’s not something Charles should be blamed for by the way - there is an inevitability about it.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 27,910
    edited September 9

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I think locals to fracking sites will get reduced gas bills, which they will no doubt be delighted with.

    To answer the thread, Truss's plans will of course continue unaffected - this is an energy crisis. The King (have to get used to that!) will not pick a fight whereby his wealth, privilege and power is used to stamp on something that could reduce ordinary peoples' fuel bills.
    Sure, reduced gas bills are a really great help if there is a connector every few hundred metres for miles, and cracks in the walls and zero equity. And UK land fracking is bloody useless anyway compared to the other options. I can't understand the rightwingers' obsession - it's the energy equivalent of slavetrader statues.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,613

    ydoethur said:

    On topic, nice to see a Cambridge graduate get the top job in the country.

    Has an Oxford graduate ever become monarch in this country?

    #OxfordIsADump

    He also attended Aberystwyth as a postgrad.

    Proving, once again, the superiority of Aber over all unis in the country.
    I think he actually took a term off from Cambridge to spend at Aberystwyth, prior to graduation.

    My favourite King Charles story is how he led a platoon of schoolboys from Gordonstoun into a pub and demanded beer all round, for which he was somewhat hypocritically chastised in the press as an under-age drinker. In this respect he takes after his grandmother rather than the late Queen.
    So Aberystwyth is so awesome that people actually take time away from Cambridge to improve themselves?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,471

    darkage said:

    The King will have to STFU at least in public pronouncements.

    There are plenty of people in Government who will readily tell you that Charles is not shy in coming forward with his opinions. You may recall the prolonged battle by the Guardian to FOI his correspondence with Government.
    It is sad that the age of 'informed aloofness' represented is probably finished.
    I just can't see Charles's interventions, as interesting as they sometimes are, being particularly welcome or useful in developing policy, even if they are just in private. Truss is already going on about wanting to sort out the planning system, something Charles is known to be obsessed with.
    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.
    It’s a monarchy. You don’t get an option. You get what the gene pool throws up. Nature of the beast and all that.

    We all know all things considered by far the best next monarch would have been the Princess Royal. But that’s not how it works.
    You salute the rank, not the man.
    Given monarchy's history as the ultimate expression of power being vested in an individual, to the extent of extending to that individual's progeny, it's interesting to think of it recast as an expression of the triumph of institutional power over personal power, to the extent of it not mattering which individual happens to be sitting on the throne at any given moment.

    Something to think about.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,778
    ydoethur said:

    Ratters said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
    If Australia isn't a republic within three years I shall be very surprised.
    We should send them Andrew as King
  • Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I'm inclined to believe @rcs1000's comment on UK fracking: that it is not economically viable even at current prices, and therefore an irrelevance.
    But there's another aspect to this: energy security. *If* we need gas supplies in the medium term, and gas supplies means buying from abroad, then we're putting ourselves somewhat in Germany's position today (albeit in a lesser way due to North Sea gas).

    How much is energy security worth? How much extra are we willing to pay for our gas to avoid this sort of mess happening again?

    Even if fracking is not economically viable, it may be a wise thing to do.

    (Personally, I'm on the fence about it.)
    Fracking in the UK is a ponzi scheme. Cuadrilla took large amounts of investor money, drilled a lot of wells, shagged communities, and produced only a thimblefull of gas. It isn't a question of "is it economically viable" - it isn't.

    No, this IS about energy security. And "lets go fracking" takes us further from a solution than we are now. It makes our security worse. Truss is only doing so - despite all the detailed factual evidence (from her own Chancellor amongst others) why it is a stupid idea - because the decrepit giffers who voted for her have been told its a magic bullet.
  • TOPPING said:

    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.

    I hate to say it but we’ve probably got another 2 weeks of this at least.

    I think you can comfort yourself that I can’t imagine any figure will get the “full works” treatment again. Her passing is the end of an era and I suspect when members of the royal family pass in future it will be much more toned down (taking over the airwaves for that day and the morning and evening schedules of the next then back to normal until the funeral day).

    It is quite annoying. Obviously
    something important has happened, and it means a lot to me too. For example, I will almost certainly watch her funeral on the telly and I imagine I will raise a glass afterwards with friends in her memory and to the King's health. I may wear a black tie to work when I am back from holiday next week.

    But there is literally no news, so why keep going on about it?

    I was out yesterday for a good lunch and a few beers so I'd quite like to catch up with what's happening on the Izyum front and what will happen to my gas bill next month.
    With luck, the Establishment will have learned from the death of Prince Philip. Wall-to-wall coverage quickly becomes
    overwhelming when there is nothing new to say, when there is no news.
    Fat chance, sadly

    Prepare yourself for 2 weeks of boredom
    Just don't watch. Or listen. She was great. She died. Her successors will bring down the whole institution We don't need to discuss it for weeks, we lived it.
This discussion has been closed.