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What’s King Charles going to say about fracking – politicalbetting.com

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  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,545

    Selebian said:

    TOPPING said:

    eristdoof said:

    Stocky said:

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    There was an extremely hateful and offensive tweet going around by a Carnegie Mellon professor (a 'critical race theorist') yesterday. It will of course be ignored/forgiven. But this type of thing will only assist the Republicans return to power.

    The thing is, that the tweet now gets screenshotted, so the 'moderation' of the tweet doesn't stop it circulating.

    Do you support attempts to stop it?

    It could be attacked bit by bit - but it's such shite it isn't worthy of that. It may help alert a wider audience to the sort of people that now infect and influence our educational and other institutions.
    Are you trying to imply that her opinions are widespread in UK universities?
    That is also a statement that could be atacked bit by bit, but is not worthy of it.
    Are you trying to imply that we should give a shit what opinions are widespread in UK universities?
    Should we have an opinion on what shits are widespread in UK US universities?
    A minority of loud mouthed “activists” for every cause between the loony version of fascism and the loony version of Pol Potism.

    A significant number of those are just doing it for attention. Another chunk are trying to build a political career. A very small number are actually serious about their activism.

    When I was at uni, it was interesting how many times acquiring a Significant Other led to the dropping of “activism”.
    Posting on the world’s 14th biggest social media platform by active users is not any sort of activism worth the name and engaging with them, let alone banning them, just strokes the ego of the poster. Activists worth the name go on demonstrations, stand in elections, write meaningfully more than 240 characters and/or a meme, in extreme cases take up arms if the situation demands it. Much as I think the antics of the Insulate Britain crowd are counterproductive in what they do at least they have the courage to get off their phones.

    The worst thing for any Twitter poster is just to be ignored. Mute, don’t block, if you want to really hurt them. Cries of outrage and hurt are exactly the reaction they want.
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I think locals to fracking sites will get reduced gas bills, which they will no doubt be delighted with.

    To answer the thread, Truss's plans will of course continue unaffected - this is an energy crisis. The King (have to get used to that!) will not pick a fight whereby his wealth, privilege and power is used to stamp on something that could reduce ordinary peoples' fuel bills.
    Sure, reduced gas bills are a really great help if there is a connector every few hundred metres for miles, and cracks in the walls and zero equity. And UK land fracking is bloody useless anyway compared to the other options. I can't understand the rightwingers' obsession - it's the energy equivalent of slavetrader statues.
    What utter nonsense. In what world is lifting a ban on a commercial activity 'an obsession' with it? Accessible gas cannot be conjoured into existence. Either it will work, or it won't. Let the geology decide.
    The geology has already decided. Unless you know more than our oil geologists and economists and anyone with some common sense?
    Then nobody will want to do any fracking will they? Problem solved.
    The people banging on the loudest about how fracking won't work don't seem really worried that it won't work, they seem worried that given the chance that it will.
    They're worried because it won't work and we've meantime wasted a great deal of time and energy getting nowhere with a proper energy strategy. You wouldn't include cold fusion or perpetual motion machines, would you?
    I’ve just realised that UK fracking is the homeopathy of energy policies. If we just believe enough..
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,368

    Re; a post below on fracking, I would actually be pleased if Charles exerted a bit of discreet influence against.

    There are two issues - the dilemmas of constitutional monarchy and its role, and the urgencies of a national social crisis and global environmental one. In that respect Charles actually seems the right, complex, figure at the right time, to me, although he's going to have to navigate all these dilemmas of very high stakes with extreme care.

    If there were a conflict of some kind between the King and Parliament (aka the Conservative Party), I know which side I would be on. Not the same as last time.

    I wonder which side our One True Conservative would be on? Do tell us, young HY!!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,491

    ydoethur said:

    Ratters said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
    If Australia isn't a republic within three years I shall be very surprised.
    I’d be quite surprised if there are any Commonwealth realms left by the end of the decade (NZ and Canada might hold out a touch longer, I suppose). An anachronism that was sustained by deference to Her Maj, but in 2022 looks incredibly out of place. That’s not something Charles should be blamed for by the way - there is an inevitability about it.

    I think Canada, oddly, might be the last holdout, or maybe somewhere tiny that doesnt care to do anything at all.

    As you say not something to get worked up about. I dont think it's a matter of being out of place, just that not many will be furiously defending the idea, and in the longer term the uninterested masses will acquiesce to a cry of 'I guess we should have our head of state, whatever
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    edited September 2022

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I think locals to fracking sites will get reduced gas bills, which they will no doubt be delighted with.

    To answer the thread, Truss's plans will of course continue unaffected - this is an energy crisis. The King (have to get used to that!) will not pick a fight whereby his wealth, privilege and power is used to stamp on something that could reduce ordinary peoples' fuel bills.
    Sure, reduced gas bills are a really great help if there is a connector every few hundred metres for miles, and cracks in the walls and zero equity. And UK land fracking is bloody useless anyway compared to the other options. I can't understand the rightwingers' obsession - it's the energy equivalent of slavetrader statues.
    What utter nonsense. In what world is lifting a ban on a commercial activity 'an obsession' with it? Accessible gas cannot be conjoured into existence. Either it will work, or it won't. Let the geology decide.
    The geology has already decided. Unless you know more than our oil geologists and economists and anyone with some common sense?
    Then nobody will want to do any fracking will they? Problem solved.
    The people banging on the loudest about how fracking won't work don't seem really worried that it won't work, they seem worried that given the chance that it will.
    They're worried because it won't work and we've meantime wasted a great deal of time and energy getting nowhere with a proper energy strategy. You wouldn't include cold fusion or perpetual motion machines, would you?
    I’ve just realised that UK fracking is the homeopathy of energy policies. If we just believe enough..
    It would be better if it were - for it's not distilled water that the frackers pump into the ground ad libitum. More like drinking bleach for covid.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    A king who picks a fight with the political power in their realm comes to a sticky end. Charles won't I bet.

    Sticking with his own name should be a reminder
    Charles II did OK when he got rid of Parliament.
    Charles 1, not so much ...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    A king who picks a fight with the political power in their realm comes to a sticky end. Charles won't I bet.

    Sticking with his own name should be a reminder
    Charles II did OK when he got rid of Parliament.
    Charles 1, not so much ...
    Although you could make a case that it was when Parliament returned that the fun began...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 1,883
    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his supporters getting angry with her.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,918
    @ydoethur are we Caroleans now?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    A king who picks a fight with the political power in their realm comes to a sticky end. Charles won't I bet.

    Sticking with his own name should be a reminder
    Charles II did OK when he got rid of Parliament.
    Didn’t do much for the succession though
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    A king who picks a fight with the political power in their realm comes to a sticky end. Charles won't I bet.

    Sticking with his own name should be a reminder
    Charles II did OK when he got rid of Parliament.
    Charles 1, not so much ...
    Although you could make a case that it was when Parliament returned that the fun began...
    Parliaments, Parliaments ... Bishops' Wars and all that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    Jonathan said:

    @ydoethur are we Caroleans now?

    Carolingians I would have thought.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,446
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ratters said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
    If Australia isn't a republic within three years I shall be very surprised.
    It rather depends on what the politicians cobble together as the alternative - that’s what sank it last time. No, they may not want to be a monarchy, but they also didn’t want that sort of president either.

    As the Queen observed, it is entirely a matter for the people of Australia and whatever they decide relations between the countries will remain strong.
    IIRC it was said at the time the reason John Howard put that model forward is he knew it would be rejected. Which is what he wanted.

    I suppose the question for Australians is, do they want a figurehead President - in which case just make the Governor-General one - or an executive one? The issue with direct elections is that for good or ill they would ultimately end up with the latter. Gough Whitlam wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if he'd been facing a popularly elected President.
    I lived in Australia at the time. You are almost right. Howard didn't propose the alternative republican model himself. He set up an assembly (or some such name) to decide on a specific republican model. I think there were a few restrictions on what could be proposed, but they were not to onerous.

    What Howard relied upon, was that there was no real consensus as to what kind of republic Australia wanted to be. When faced with an either or choice "that type of republic" would not get enogh support compared to the no change option.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 8,545
    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his
    supporters getting angry with her.

    Lucky? Her big energy announcement is where in the papers today?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    @ydoethur are we Caroleans now?

    Carolingians I would have thought.
    Malignants.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    A king who picks a fight with the political power in their realm comes to a sticky end. Charles won't I bet.

    Sticking with his own name should be a reminder
    Charles II did OK when he got rid of Parliament.
    Didn’t do much for the succession though
    Well, that was his fault.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    edited September 2022
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    A king who picks a fight with the political power in their realm comes to a sticky end. Charles won't I bet.

    Sticking with his own name should be a reminder
    Charles II did OK when he got rid of Parliament.
    Charles 1, not so much ...
    Although you could make a case that it was when Parliament returned that the fun began...
    Parliaments, Parliaments ... Bishops' Wars and all that.
    He mitre guessed that would go wrong.

    The Scots also lost no time in bringing him to Book.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his
    supporters getting angry with her.

    Lucky? Her big energy announcement is where in the papers today?
    That's true, and meanwhile folk will still be worrying. It's not like a spring 2023 or 2024 coronation.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,317
    EPG said:

    darkage said:

    Stocky said:

    darkage said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Twitter content moderation is obviously utterly overwhelmed. I'm spewing all kinds of spiteful bile over it which would normally get me my customary 24 hour ban but today... nothing. I've had two flag shaggers offer to come round and fight me and it's still very early in the day.

    There was an extremely hateful and offensive tweet going around by a Carnegie Mellon professor (a 'critical race theorist') yesterday. It will of course be ignored/forgiven. But this type of thing will only assist the Republicans return to power.

    The thing is, that the tweet now gets screenshotted, so the 'moderation' of the tweet doesn't stop it circulating.

    Do you support attempts to stop it?

    It could be attacked bit by bit - but it's such shite it isn't worthy of that. It may help alert a wider audience to the sort of people that now infect and influence our educational and other institutions.
    @Stocky

    I think these kind of tweets are counterproductive and it does help that they get air time. It reveals the hateful and near psychotic nature of the 'thought leaders' of the 'woke' left, much like the communists that preceded them, and how much they have compromised universities, and the naivety of the fellow travellers and useful idiots they command.

    Taking a step back, I think something is obviously wrong with Twitter, if this stuff basically gets a free pass (it got taken down, but she is still posting on Twitter defending the tweet), whereas people on the 'right' have been permanently removed from the platform for trivial reasons of far less objective seriousness. Twitter is a platform of massive significance, and those who are running it are ideologically manipulating public debate, which goes against the entire principle of free speech.

    I would rather that free speech and the liberal ideas of an open society were restored, but if it isn't possible to do that, then I would choose the Trump tyranny over the nightmare of being stuck in a 'woke' dictatorship, which seems to be fast coming to realisation. The 'woke' may think they are winning now, but in the end it is this type of perspective on the part of undecided voters that could well get the Republicans over the line in 2024.

    Thr "dictatorship" is purely your invention. There are widespread opinions and social mores with which you disagree. And on this basis you let others whip you up to support overturning elections.
    I am making my assessment of the situation by trying look carefully at the evidence, other people will do the same thing and come to different conclusions; which I completely respect. Obviously I have some biases which are inevitable. But there are quite a few red flags going around. In terms of the UK, one such red flag is the ongoing conduct of the police over 'non crime hate incidents', see the recent episode in Hampshire involving Harry Miller, even after the Supreme Court case. Nothing gets done about it, the Police and Crime Commissioner is reduced to moaning about it in the daily mail. It is a pathetic state of affairs.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,308
    edited September 2022
    I recommend this course by FutureLearn on fracking.
    https://www.futurelearn.com/courses/shale-gas

    I did it a couple of years ago and it changed me from agnostic to anti franking.

    It isn't one-sided. Good informed debate on it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563
    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his
    supporters getting angry with her.

    Lucky? Her big energy announcement is where in the papers today?
    Nowhere.

    That's why she's lucky...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his
    supporters getting angry with her.

    Lucky? Her big energy announcement is where in the papers today?
    Well done making boulay's point for him. Best outcome for her: its existence acknowledged, its detail unexamined.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    kle4 said:

    A king who picks a fight with the political power in their realm comes to a sticky end. Charles won't I bet.

    Sticking with his own name should be a reminder
    Charles II did OK when he got rid of Parliament.
    Charles 1, not so much ...
    Although you could make a case that it was when Parliament returned that the fun began...
    Parliaments, Parliaments ... Bishops' Wars and all that.
    He mitre guessed that would go wrong.

    The Scots also lost no time in bringing him to Book.
    Stool on the carpet and all that.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
  • Jonathan said:

    @ydoethur are we Caroleans now?

    Chuckies (also a fine Scots word to unite the nations).
  • Looking at newspaper front pages, the Times, Guardian, i and Star will be wondering how they all chose near-identical coronation photographs.

    The Mirror's front page is best: The Mirror chooses a more recent photo of the Queen, showing her famous profile. The paper decides against a headline, instead simply saying: "Thank you."
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-62845155

    My guess is that these were from PA
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 4,446
    In April I was listening to Abbey Road with friends. The last track, not listed on the album cover, is a very short ditty from Paul called Her Majesty. I commented to the others at the time, I found it unbelievabe that the song is about the Queen, the same Queen, and she'd been Queen for the whole time, even though the song was written 53 years ago. The song was, in its own odd way, still relevant for all that time. Still saying something in the present.

    That's now gone. The song has become history.
  • theakestheakes Posts: 679
    Another very bad set of local election results for the Tories this week? Lancaster Warton massive swing to Greens, looks like the anti Con vote again found one voice.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,530
    edited September 2022
    Will any politician be very visible between now and the funeral? This isn’t like Diana’s death when it was all being made up on the hoof and there was major controversy. It’s all been planned in minute detail and there will be very little public room for the PM or any other politician - unless one makes a major gaffe.

    This delays us getting to know Truss. Politically, it also means the price freeze just slips into the everyday with the only thing most people will know about it in any detail being that it does not involve a windfall tax.
  • DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his
    supporters getting angry with her.

    Lucky? Her big energy announcement is where in the papers today?
    The pound is rising against the euro and dollar this morning as the City reacts to yesterday's announcement and the prospect of a 5% drop in inflation
  • CookieCookie Posts: 8,112

    Jonathan said:

    @ydoethur are we Caroleans now?

    Chuckies (also a fine Scots word to unite the nations).
    Chuckle Brothers.
  • eekeek Posts: 22,056
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his
    supporters getting angry with her.

    Lucky? Her big energy announcement is where in the papers today?
    Nowhere.

    That's why she's lucky...
    +1 - it's now going to be quietly implemented without much scrutiny into it's fundamental* flaws

    * got to say any such scheme has major flaws that would usually be attackable...
  • Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    Er... is that a joke?

    This guy seems like a pretty clear public risk to me.
  • I hope all loyal subjects are checking their toast and tea leaves this morning for signs and portents.


  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,624

    As a Geriatrician and a fellow human, what an example of positive ageing & and what a way to go; at home, with family, comfortably, quickly and enjoying life up until your final days.
    What a woman.


    https://twitter.com/DrSandyThomson/status/1567941584192143360

    How wonderfully colour coordinated she is with her room. I wonder if that was her doing or her stylist? It turned an ordinary photo into an iconic one.
  • TazTaz Posts: 6,568
    Cookie said:

    Jonathan said:

    @ydoethur are we Caroleans now?

    Chuckies (also a fine Scots word to unite the nations).
    Chuckle Brothers.
    Chuckie Egg
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I think locals to fracking sites will get reduced gas bills, which they will no doubt be delighted with.

    To answer the thread, Truss's plans will of course continue unaffected - this is an energy crisis. The King (have to get used to that!) will not pick a fight whereby his wealth, privilege and power is used to stamp on something that could reduce ordinary peoples' fuel bills.
    Sure, reduced gas bills are a really great help if there is a connector every few hundred metres for miles, and cracks in the walls and zero equity. And UK land fracking is bloody useless anyway compared to the other options. I can't understand the rightwingers' obsession - it's the energy equivalent of slavetrader statues.
    What utter nonsense. In what world is lifting a ban on a commercial activity 'an obsession' with it? Accessible gas cannot be conjoured into existence. Either it will work, or it won't. Let the geology decide.
    The geology has already decided. Unless you know more than our oil geologists and economists and anyone with some common sense?
    Then nobody will want to do any fracking will they? Problem solved.
    The people banging on the loudest about how fracking won't work don't seem really worried that it won't work, they seem worried that given the chance that it will.
    What worries me about fracking is not the fracking but that it demonstrates that the PM cares more about something that is a totemic symbol of fossil fuel extraction than she does about what makes economic or environmental sense. It’s a Trumpian owning-the-libtards position.
    Its not.

    It makes perfect economic and environmental sense.

    There's a reason that the USA isn't going through the same energy crisis this year that we are, and that is because they are getting on with fracking where its viable and so should we.

    If its not viable, then don't do it, but there's no economic or environmental reason why we shouldn't do it where it is viable.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 3,317
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    The only comment I would make is that there are other similar cases which are similar, where people get quite significant prison sentences - there was a case locally where someone got sent to prison for about 8 years for a similar situation of entrapment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    edited September 2022
    Truss isn't opposed to renewables at such, just not putting solar panels all over farmers' fields. Charles may personally be not keen on fracking but as the new King he has made clear it is different from being Prince of Wales and he will make his personal views less public.

    Even if ideologically Charles if he could vote would probably be less conservative and pro Brexit than his mother would probably have been. Indeed politically Charles would probably be a very wet Remainer Tory or LD or even Starmer Labour (Labour and the LDs also opposed to fracking of course)
  • Will any politician be very visible between now and the funeral? This isn’t like Diana’s death when it was all being made up on the hoof and there was major controversy. It’s all been planned in minute detail and there will be very little public room for the PM or any other politician - unless one makes a major gaffe.

    This delays us getting to know Truss. Politically, it also means the price freeze just slips into the everyday with the only thing most people will know about it in any detail being that it does not involve a windfall tax.

    I expect Truss will be visible and not least once dignitaries start arriving for the funeral

    Indeed I believe she is leading the nation today in a service of remembrance later as well as opening the tributes in the HOC

    The BBC have confirmed that while parliament is effectively closed time for the legislation for the energy cap will be made and it will be passed

    Also Monday 19th will be a Bank Holiday as a day of mourning
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 56,563

    Will any politician be very visible between now and the funeral? This isn’t like Diana’s death when it was all being made up on the hoof and there was major controversy. It’s all been planned in minute detail and there will be very little public room for the PM or any other politician - unless one makes a major gaffe.

    This delays us getting to know Truss. Politically, it also means the price freeze just slips into the everyday with the only thing most people will know about it in any detail being that it does not involve a windfall tax.

    I expect Truss will be visible and not least once dignitaries start arriving for the funeral

    Indeed I believe she is leading the nation today in a service of remembrance later as well as opening the tributes in the HOC

    The BBC have confirmed that while parliament is effectively closed time for the legislation for the energy cap will be made and it will be passed

    Also Monday 19th will be a Bank Holiday as a day of mourning
    Sorry @Cookie that's not great news I know. Hope they can reschedule quickly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    Will any politician be very visible between now and the funeral? This isn’t like Diana’s death when it was all being made up on the hoof and there was major controversy. It’s all been planned in minute detail and there will be very little public room for the PM or any other politician - unless one makes a major gaffe.

    This delays us getting to know Truss. Politically, it also means the price freeze just slips into the everyday with the only thing most people will know about it in any detail being that it does not involve a windfall tax.

    I expect Truss will be visible and not least once dignitaries start arriving for the funeral

    Indeed I believe she is leading the nation today in a service of remembrance later as well as opening the tributes in the HOC

    The BBC have confirmed that while parliament is effectively closed time for the legislation for the energy cap will be made and it will be passed

    Also Monday 19th will be a Bank Holiday as a day of mourning
    Good to get that confirmation the day of the state funeral will be a public holiday and national day of mourning
  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,712
    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    That was my initial reaction too - more to the story I'm sure.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Edinburgh Road closures are predictable but also ridiculous. City Centre is road closure central
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    The only comment I would make is that there are other similar cases which are similar, where people get quite significant prison sentences - there was a case locally where someone got sent to prison for about 8 years for a similar situation of entrapment.
    Not entrapment because the police officer is initially entirely passive.
  • eek said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    boulay said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    Wow. Bullet dodged. Poor Penny. No wonder she looked absent throughout the process.
    Yes - it probably explains a lot - I seem to recall that people were commenting that she looked distant and emotional a lot in the early stages.

    But if it cost her just five votes that went to Liz then it’s quite amazing how history could have been different.

    It just shows the stunning ineptitude of Sunak. Anyone one quarter competent, one per cent competent, would have known this,
    lent votes to get her into the final, and leaked it to the Con electorate.
    I’m getting the feeling that Liz Truss is a very lucky general - which hopefully will be good for the country.

    She was up against Sunak who whilst bright wasn’t politically savvy.

    She might well have lucked out in penultimate round where Penny voters switched worried about that story.

    The country has taken its eye off the huge CoL/Energy crisis which would have dominated her first weeks for a bit giving her time to nail her solutions and arguments.

    She’s going to be majorly in the history books now where as if she had bumbled along and lost the next election she would have just been another short term undistinguished PM.

    She has an opportunity to massively boost her standing with the public if she plays the next ten days well and becomes a cypher for the grief but resilience of the “Great British Public”.

    All she needs now is for JRM to join a cult and quit politics so she can get rid without his
    supporters getting angry with her.

    Lucky? Her big energy announcement is where in the papers today?
    Nowhere.

    That's why she's lucky...
    +1 - it's now going to be quietly implemented without much scrutiny into it's fundamental* flaws

    * got to say any such scheme has major flaws that would usually be attackable...
    It seems the first day back for the HOC will precede the emergency budget by the Chancellor on the 21st

  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    My friend Michael Fagan the Queen’s Intruder has (seriously) sent me a message of greetings and adds

    "now she's gone they shouldn't bother with a monarchy, there's no fucking point"

    You get a better class of royal correspondent on PB
  • Sandpit said:

    Explosions reported in Sevastopol, Crimea this morning. Lots of good news out of Ukraine in the last couple of days.

    Ukraine to be liberated before Charles' coronation looking possible this morning.
  • theakes said:

    Another very bad set of local election results for the Tories this week? Lancaster Warton massive swing to Greens, looks like the anti Con vote again found one voice.

    I genuinely do not expect the political climate for the conservatives to dramatically improve but there could be a narrowing of the polls in the next 6 months
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147

    ydoethur said:

    Ratters said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
    If Australia isn't a republic within three years I shall be very surprised.
    It rather depends on what the politicians cobble together as the alternative - that’s what sank it last time. No, they may not want to be a monarchy, but they also didn’t want that sort of president either.

    As the Queen observed, it is entirely a matter for the people of Australia and whatever they decide relations between the countries will remain strong.
    Albanese has made clear his first priority is recognition of indigenous peoples in Parliament. However yes he will likely hold another referendum on the monarchy in a few years.

    The result is not certain though, even if it will likely be closer than 1999 and while PM Albanese is a republican the leader of the Opposition Peter Dutton is a monarchist

    https://www.smh.com.au/national/no-sense-of-momentum-poll-finds-drop-in-support-for-australia-becoming-a-republic-20210125-p56wpe.html
  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    How could any meaningful poll have been conducted? We only just found out yesterday what the package is and within minutes of doing so the news cut away to the Queen and there's been no meaningful discussion of the package since.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    On topic - he will say nothing in public. He has covered this in many interviews and he entirely understand he now has to be more quiet on any subject where he differs. That said, many “friends” will brief differently in the press.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 107,147
    EPG said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ratters said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    darkage said:


    It does feel to me like William would have been a better option if the aim was continuity.

    The Scottish Nationalists wasted Johnson. We republicans can't afford to waste Charles. It's got to be now.
    I don't think there are
    1) A high enough proportion of republicans in the UK
    2) Republicans don't hold their views strongly enough to even make it an mainstream political discussion

    The exception would be if Charles is too politically active. But I suspect he'll play the role he's been preparing for his whole life well enough that it's not an issue.

    On the other hand, I suspect other commonwealth countries will become republics over the next few years.
    If Australia isn't a republic within three years I shall be very surprised.
    It rather depends on what the politicians cobble together as the alternative - that’s what sank it last time. No, they may not want to be a monarchy, but they also didn’t want that sort of president either.

    As the Queen observed, it is entirely a matter for the people of Australia and whatever they decide relations between the countries will remain strong.
    IIRC it was said at the time the reason John Howard put that model forward is he knew it would be rejected. Which is what he wanted.

    I suppose the question for Australians is, do they want a figurehead President - in which case just make the Governor-General one - or an executive one? The issue with direct elections is that for good or ill they would ultimately end up with the latter. Gough Whitlam wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if he'd been facing a popularly elected President.
    Ireland has never had any such tendency despote direct elections. You just need to make the president in law an even emptier vessel than the crown.
    The Irish President's wife has recently said Ukraine should seek peace talks with Putin

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62392574
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,145
    edited September 2022

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's been quite a time since I was there, but having seen some of the staff quarters and back rooms I'd say Buck House could be as difficult to renovate as the House of Commons - apart from having less complex decoration and less control-freaky occupants :smile: .

    BP is about 77k sqm of floorspace (just under 8 Hectares and about 1/3 smaller than the Palace of Westminster). They are just doing a £400m renovation project on it running until 2027, for which sustainability is an element.

    But being Duke of Cornwall, and having Highgrove and so on, I think King Charles knows all about the problems, and is quite likely to have been driving whatever they are doing for decades anyway.

    King Charles was early on greenery as we know, and has always experimented with his own property / resources. He has had solar panels on Clarence House since 2010, and I think Buck House will get them now. Plus BH has had a CHP (Combined Heat and Power) plant for nearly 30 years. Brief article here from 2016, when they were doing things like trialling LED lighting:
    https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-buckingham-palace-em5781/

    Heat pumps are not very suitable for inefficient buildings, which is Buck House in spades until heavily renovated. Like a lot of us they will need to rely on emissions-free power.

    Factoid: the first Royal Electric car was bought in 1901.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,345
    edited September 2022
    Roger said:

    As a Geriatrician and a fellow human, what an example of positive ageing & and what a way to go; at home, with family, comfortably, quickly and enjoying life up until your final days.
    What a woman.


    https://twitter.com/DrSandyThomson/status/1567941584192143360

    How wonderfully colour coordinated she is with her room. I wonder if that was her doing or her stylist? It turned an ordinary photo into an iconic one.
    The fiull photo certainly will be as it shows her performing her last duty in asking Truss to form a government
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Stocky said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    That was my initial reaction too - more to the story I'm sure.
    Well, he had made serious arrangements to meet the 14 year old by the look of it, and was stringing a 12 yo along. A defence of entrapment would require that the police initiated the interaction, whereas they just put up the profiles and waited for messages
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,712
    Leon said:

    My friend Michael Fagan the Queen’s Intruder has (seriously) sent me a message of greetings and adds

    "now she's gone they shouldn't bother with a monarchy, there's no fucking point"

    You get a better class of royal correspondent on PB

    I wonder who he thinks the higher authority is - the one he refers to as "they".
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    MattW said:

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's been quite a time since I was there, but having seen some of the staff quarters and back rooms I'd say Buck House could be as difficult to renovate as the House of Commons - apart from having less complex decoration and less control-freaky occupants :smile: .

    BP is about 77k sqm of floorspace (just under 8 Hectares and about 1/3 smaller than the Palace of Westminster). They are just doing a £400m renovation project on it running until 2027, for which sustainability is an element.

    But being Duke of Cornwall, and having Highgrove and so on, I think King Charles knows all about the problems, and is quite likely to have been driving whatever they are doing for decades anyway.

    King Charles was early on greenery as we know, and has always experimented with his own property / resources. He has had solar panels on Clarence House since 2010, and I think Buck House will get them now. Plus BH has had a CHP (Combined Heat and Power) plant for nearly 30 years. Brief article here from 2016, when they were doing things like trialling LED lighting:
    https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-buckingham-palace-em5781/

    Heat pumps are not very suitable for inefficient buildings, which is Buck House in spades until heavily renovated. Like a lot of us they will need to rely on emissions-free power.

    Factoid: the first Royal Electric car was bought in 1901.
    It was renovated a year or two back for a few billion. Unlike the prima donnas in Parliament Her Majesty grasped the need to move the operation out to enable it.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,279
    theakes said:

    Another very bad set of local election results for the Tories this week? Lancaster Warton massive swing to Greens, looks like the anti Con vote again found one voice.

    A possible fracking area? Or close to one?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 20,039

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    I think people have moved from "panic" to "worried" about energy prices, and feel the Government's package is helpful but not enough to make them no longer worried - all of which is pretty reasonable.

    It's too early to guess how Truss will go down. She's had a very testing week and has come out of it reasonably well - people see her as steady, not a word readily associated with Johnson, and very welcome for most in these difficult times. OTOH her approach to enriching the energy providers with the public's money over the next generation cuts across what most people think is fair. The Queen's death has dampened the impact either way.

    I've seen a rumour that all the party conferences will be cancelled - does anyone know? Clearly the LibDems have a problem as it actually overlaps with the funeral, and everyone will understand if they decide to reschedule. Not sure the others need to?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    MattW said:

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's been quite a time since I was there, but having seen some of the staff quarters and back rooms I'd say Buck House could be as difficult to renovate as the House of Commons - apart from having less complex decoration and less control-freaky occupants :smile: .

    BP is about 77k sqm of floorspace (just under 8 Hectares and about 1/3 smaller than the Palace of Westminster). They are just doing a £400m renovation project on it running until 2027, for which sustainability is an element.

    But being Duke of Cornwall, and having Highgrove and so on, I think King Charles knows all about the problems, and is quite likely to have been driving whatever they are doing for decades anyway.

    King Charles was early on greenery as we know, and has always experimented with his own property / resources. He has had solar panels on Clarence House since 2010, and I think Buck House will get them now. Plus BH has had a CHP (Combined Heat and Power) plant for nearly 30 years. Brief article here from 2016, when they were doing things like trialling LED lighting:
    https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-buckingham-palace-em5781/

    Heat pumps are not very suitable for inefficient buildings, which is Buck House in spades until heavily renovated. Like a lot of us they will need to rely on emissions-free power.

    Factoid: the first Royal Electric car was bought in 1901.
    Factoid: love it. Classic PB.
  • Will any politician be very visible between now and the funeral? This isn’t like Diana’s death when it was all being made up on the hoof and there was major controversy. It’s all been planned in minute detail and there will be very little public room for the PM or any other politician - unless one makes a major gaffe.

    This delays us getting to know Truss. Politically, it also means the price freeze just slips into the everyday with the only thing most people will know about it in any detail being that it does not involve a windfall tax.

    I expect Truss will be visible and not least once dignitaries start arriving for the funeral

    Indeed I believe she is leading the nation today in a service of remembrance later as well as opening the tributes in the HOC

    The BBC have confirmed that while parliament is effectively closed time for the legislation for the energy cap will be made and it will be passed

    Also Monday 19th will be a Bank Holiday as a day of mourning
    Politics is suspended. Truss and all other politicians will be a tiny sideshow until the funeral is over. As things stand we have an energy price freeze not funded by a windfall tax and no room for the government to explain why. I am not sure that is great for the Tories. But, as I say, it’s all a sideshow.

  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    edited September 2022
    Stocky said:

    Leon said:

    My friend Michael Fagan the Queen’s Intruder has (seriously) sent me a message of greetings and adds

    "now she's gone they shouldn't bother with a monarchy, there's no fucking point"

    You get a better class of royal correspondent on PB

    I wonder who he thinks the higher authority is - the one he refers to as "they".
    The lizard people. I can confirm we had a meeting this morning and will continue with a Monarchy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,341
    Monarchs just have to be female.
    TOPPING said:

    R4 on atm. Jeez we can't have too much more of this can we? Dear god not a whole day of it and they've cancelled all kinds of events for some unknown idiotic reason including the horse racing which she loved ffs.

    Plus how many more people can they drag up to ask about some Queen anecdote or other only to be told well I can't really talk about that.

    The Queen has died aged 96 after a life of service.

    Let's leave it there shall we.

    Cancelling the racing is bloody daft. She loved it. A minute's silence and an afternoon's enjoyment would be far more fitting.

    You mark the passing but also life goes on. Which is as it should be - for all of us.
  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    I am sure you hope so but it is far too early to come to any conclusions

    Indeed I expect a slow narrowing of the polls over the next 6 months, expecially if the inflation rate drops by 5 % as predicted by the City today
  • Fckn hell, Andrew Lloyd Webber now on R4 talking about a song wot he wrote with Gary Barlow for Queeny. Barrel being scraped pretty quickly.
  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    How could any meaningful poll have been conducted? We only just found out yesterday what the package is and within minutes of doing so the news cut away to the Queen and there's been no meaningful discussion of the package since.
    To be honest I don’t think I’m going to try and make meaningful political forecasts until after the new year now. We need to see both how the COL stuff plays out over winter and a lot of the news media will be saturated with the novelty of the first royal transition for 70 years.

    We’re in a holding pattern.

  • PB Tories are desperate for Truss to have a bounce
  • Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sandpit said:

    On topic, the way we ‘deal with’ fracking is easy - we allow the taxes on it to be raised locally, so everyone in the district gets a cheque instead of a council tax bill.

    I think locals to fracking sites will get reduced gas bills, which they will no doubt be delighted with.

    To answer the thread, Truss's plans will of course continue unaffected - this is an energy crisis. The King (have to get used to that!) will not pick a fight whereby his wealth, privilege and power is used to stamp on something that could reduce ordinary peoples' fuel bills.
    Sure, reduced gas bills are a really great help if there is a connector every few hundred metres for miles, and cracks in the walls and zero equity. And UK land fracking is bloody useless anyway compared to the other options. I can't understand the rightwingers' obsession - it's the energy equivalent of slavetrader statues.
    What utter nonsense. In what world is lifting a ban on a commercial activity 'an obsession' with it? Accessible gas cannot be conjoured into existence. Either it will work, or it won't. Let the geology decide.
    The geology has already decided. Unless you know more than our oil geologists and economists and anyone with some common sense?
    Then nobody will want to do any fracking will they? Problem solved.
    The people banging on the loudest about how fracking won't work don't seem really worried that it won't work, they seem worried that given the chance that it will.
    What worries me about fracking is not the fracking but that it demonstrates that the PM cares more about something that is a totemic symbol of fossil fuel extraction than she does about what makes economic or environmental sense. It’s a Trumpian owning-the-libtards position.
    Its not.

    It makes perfect economic and environmental sense.

    There's a reason that the USA isn't going through the same energy crisis this year that we are, and that is because they are getting on with fracking where its viable and so should we.

    If its not viable, then don't do it, but there's no economic or environmental reason why we shouldn't do it where it is viable.
    Yep. A stack of geologists know nothing about geology compared to you. We're back to you being Dougal and the rest of PB explaining patiently that model cows are small but America is Far Away.
  • Leon said:

    My friend Michael Fagan the Queen’s Intruder has (seriously) sent me a message of greetings and adds

    "now she's gone they shouldn't bother with a monarchy, there's no fucking point"

    You get a better class of royal correspondent on PB

    Is he getting asked his view by the press? I would imagine he has an interesting slant on things having met her in unusual circumstances and had the kind of conversation with her that few others have had. Although he must have scared the shit out of her in a way the fact that he sought her out to share his troubles with her is a testament to the role she played in the national psyche.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 8,304
    edited September 2022
    I understand Last Night of the Proms has been cancelled. I think that is a shame. It is so quintessentially British it could have been a joyful tribute and not least ending with the first rendition of God Save the King.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656

    Will any politician be very visible between now and the funeral? This isn’t like Diana’s death when it was all being made up on the hoof and there was major controversy. It’s all been planned in minute detail and there will be very little public room for the PM or any other politician - unless one makes a major gaffe.

    This delays us getting to know Truss. Politically, it also means the price freeze just slips into the everyday with the only thing most people will know about it in any detail being that it does not involve a windfall tax.

    I expect Truss will be visible and not least once dignitaries start arriving for the funeral

    Indeed I believe she is leading the nation today in a service of remembrance later as well as opening the tributes in the HOC

    The BBC have confirmed that while parliament is effectively closed time for the legislation for the energy cap will be made and it will be passed

    Also Monday 19th will be a Bank Holiday as a day of mourning
    Politics is suspended. Truss and all other politicians will be a tiny sideshow until the funeral is over. As things stand we have an energy price freeze not funded by a windfall tax and no room for the government to explain why. I am not sure that is great for the Tories. But, as I say, it’s all a sideshow.

    I think it’s six and two threes. The other side of the equation is that she can focus on the Budget and other immediate priorities, and sharpen those announcements with civil service support, completely shielded from any pressure to “get on with it”.

  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    I am sure you hope so but it is far too early to come to any conclusions

    Indeed I expect a slow narrowing of the polls over the next 6 months, expecially if the inflation rate drops by 5 % as predicted by the City today
    It is certainly amusing during the build up to yesterday people were saying her plans would lead to a run on the pound or surging inflation. Then the plans come out and people hear a 5% fall in inflation and the pound goes up.

    It'll take time to see what happens now, unfortunately we're not likely to get intelligent discussion on this for a while.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,145
    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's been quite a time since I was there, but having seen some of the staff quarters and back rooms I'd say Buck House could be as difficult to renovate as the House of Commons - apart from having less complex decoration and less control-freaky occupants :smile: .

    BP is about 77k sqm of floorspace (just under 8 Hectares and about 1/3 smaller than the Palace of Westminster). They are just doing a £400m renovation project on it running until 2027, for which sustainability is an element.

    But being Duke of Cornwall, and having Highgrove and so on, I think King Charles knows all about the problems, and is quite likely to have been driving whatever they are doing for decades anyway.

    King Charles was early on greenery as we know, and has always experimented with his own property / resources. He has had solar panels on Clarence House since 2010, and I think Buck House will get them now. Plus BH has had a CHP (Combined Heat and Power) plant for nearly 30 years. Brief article here from 2016, when they were doing things like trialling LED lighting:
    https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-buckingham-palace-em5781/

    Heat pumps are not very suitable for inefficient buildings, which is Buck House in spades until heavily renovated. Like a lot of us they will need to rely on emissions-free power.

    Factoid: the first Royal Electric car was bought in 1901.
    It was renovated a year or two back for a few billion. Unlike the prima donnas in Parliament Her Majesty grasped the need to move the operation out to enable it.

    AFAICS the published number is £500m, most of which was done in advance of the Platinum Jubilee, and it is due to finish in 2027. I have not checked in huge detail, though.

    https://britishheritage.com/travel/renovated-buckingham-palace
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779

    theakes said:

    Another very bad set of local election results for the Tories this week? Lancaster Warton massive swing to Greens, looks like the anti Con vote again found one voice.

    A possible fracking area? Or close to one?
    It is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/15/fracking-protesters-blockade-cuadrilla-site-where-uk-work-due-to-restart
  • Will any politician be very visible between now and the funeral? This isn’t like Diana’s death when it was all being made up on the hoof and there was major controversy. It’s all been planned in minute detail and there will be very little public room for the PM or any other politician - unless one makes a major gaffe.

    This delays us getting to know Truss. Politically, it also means the price freeze just slips into the everyday with the only thing most people will know about it in any detail being that it does not involve a windfall tax.

    I expect Truss will be visible and not least once dignitaries start arriving for the funeral

    Indeed I believe she is leading the nation today in a service of remembrance later as well as opening the tributes in the HOC

    The BBC have confirmed that while parliament is effectively closed time for the legislation for the energy cap will be made and it will be passed

    Also Monday 19th will be a Bank Holiday as a day of mourning
    Politics is suspended. Truss and all other politicians will be a tiny sideshow until the funeral is over. As things stand we have an energy price freeze not funded by a windfall tax and no room for the government to explain why. I am not sure that is great for the Tories. But, as I say, it’s all a sideshow.

    Politics is but urgent business in parliament isn't hence why the energy cap will go through

    Politics resumes with the Chancellors emergency budget in which I expect him to lay out some of the myths about the windfall tax
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    IshmaelZ said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    The only comment I would make is that there are other similar cases which are similar, where people get quite significant prison sentences - there was a case locally where someone got sent to prison for about 8 years for a similar situation of entrapment.
    Not entrapment because the police officer is initially entirely passive.
    Unfortunate wording ...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,712
    I'm looking at the Next LP Leader markets - working on the assumption that Starmer will remain for a few years and trying to find a long-shot analogous to 100/1 Truss.

    Unbelievably Burnham is still a pretty strong favourite at 5.7 (BF). Then Reeves 8.4, Rayner 8.8, Streeting 10.

    Anyone spot a lesser-known possibility way back in the field worthy of a long-term punt. Lucy Powell?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    I think people have moved from "panic" to "worried" about energy prices, and feel the Government's package is helpful but not enough to make them no longer worried - all of which is pretty reasonable.

    It's too early to guess how Truss will go down. She's had a very testing week and has come out of it reasonably well - people see her as steady, not a word readily associated with Johnson, and very welcome for most in these difficult times. OTOH her approach to enriching the energy providers with the public's money over the next generation cuts across what most people think is fair. The Queen's death has dampened the impact either way.

    I've seen a rumour that all the party conferences will be cancelled - does anyone know? Clearly the LibDems have a problem as it actually overlaps with the funeral, and everyone will understand if they decide to reschedule. Not sure the others need to?
    Presumably it’ll be a herd decision. No party will want to be accused of being “inappropriate” by the others so they will all cancel. That saidX presumably Truss and Starmer both had plans to use this as a launch of their “brand” pre-election so there’s a strong incentive to do something?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,459
    edited September 2022

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's much easier for him to be environmental in a global rather than national sense, perhaps perceiving himself as using his global profile to become both a British and environmental ambassador, and also internationally pan-cultural, particularly pan-religious. These are his two main passions and I think he'll follow them ; why shouldn't he, if and when they don't interfere with his constitutional role.
  • PB Tories are desperate for Truss to have a bounce

    You're the only person I see talking about opinion polls today.

    I haven't seen any Tory mention or care whether there will be a bounce or not.
    I can talk about what I like.
  • PB Tories are desperate for Truss to have a bounce

    Sounds like you could be worried she may well get a bounce, and indeed why should any conservative not hope to see an improvement in their standing, just as you want to see the same for labour

    It is simply politics
  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    I am sure you hope so but it is far too early to come to any conclusions

    Indeed I expect a slow narrowing of the polls over the next 6 months, expecially if the inflation rate drops by 5 % as predicted by the City today
    It is certainly amusing during the build up to yesterday people were saying her plans would lead to a run on the pound or surging inflation. Then the plans come out and people hear a 5% fall in inflation and the pound goes up.

    It'll take time to see what happens now, unfortunately we're not likely to get intelligent discussion on this for a while.
    The first impact on inflation will be that the expected increase beyond 10% which would have been caused by energy price cap increases in Oct and Jan will now not happen.

    It is unlikely to fall much below 10% until April when there will be a technical drop as the April 2022 energy cap increase drops out.

    It will hopefully fall during 2023, it might be 5% by end 2023, any lower figure then is optimistic.

    Don't know about interest rates, we may still see an increase to 2.50% at the next meeting and that may be it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 45,799
    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    The only comment I would make is that there are other similar cases which are similar, where people get quite significant prison sentences - there was a case locally where someone got sent to prison for about 8 years for a similar situation of entrapment.
    Not entrapment because the police officer is initially entirely passive.
    Unfortunate wording ...
    He thought he was talking to a child. He had the mens rea for the offence. I have absolutely no problem with people with that intent being locked up for extended periods of time.
  • The weather forecast is benign for the funeral.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,779
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    The only comment I would make is that there are other similar cases which are similar, where people get quite significant prison sentences - there was a case locally where someone got sent to prison for about 8 years for a similar situation of entrapment.
    Not entrapment because the police officer is initially entirely passive.
    Unfortunate wording ...
    He thought he was talking to a child. He had the mens rea for the offence. I have absolutely no problem with people with that intent being locked up for extended periods of time.
    I can see that there is also an element of discouraging others from trying the same offence if little Maisie turns out to be big butch PC Plod. But presumably that is not a central part of the rationale.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,656
    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's been quite a time since I was there, but having seen some of the staff quarters and back rooms I'd say Buck House could be as difficult to renovate as the House of Commons - apart from having less complex decoration and less control-freaky occupants :smile: .

    BP is about 77k sqm of floorspace (just under 8 Hectares and about 1/3 smaller than the Palace of Westminster). They are just doing a £400m renovation project on it running until 2027, for which sustainability is an element.

    But being Duke of Cornwall, and having Highgrove and so on, I think King Charles knows all about the problems, and is quite likely to have been driving whatever they are doing for decades anyway.

    King Charles was early on greenery as we know, and has always experimented with his own property / resources. He has had solar panels on Clarence House since 2010, and I think Buck House will get them now. Plus BH has had a CHP (Combined Heat and Power) plant for nearly 30 years. Brief article here from 2016, when they were doing things like trialling LED lighting:
    https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-buckingham-palace-em5781/

    Heat pumps are not very suitable for inefficient buildings, which is Buck House in spades until heavily renovated. Like a lot of us they will need to rely on emissions-free power.

    Factoid: the first Royal Electric car was bought in 1901.
    It was renovated a year or two back for a few billion. Unlike the prima donnas in Parliament Her Majesty grasped the need to move the operation out to enable it.

    AFAICS the published number is £500m, most of which was done in advance of the Platinum Jubilee, and it is due to finish in 2027. I have not checked in huge detail, though.

    https://britishheritage.com/travel/renovatedbuckingham-palace
    I must be utterly wrong then. That can’t be a full refurb. Or if it is then those contractors need to have a look at Parliament…

  • TimSTimS Posts: 3,623

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    I am sure you hope so but it is far too early to come to any conclusions

    Indeed I expect a slow narrowing of the polls over the next 6 months, expecially if the inflation rate drops by 5 % as predicted by the City today
    Depends whether what we are seeing now is a repeat of 1990 or a repeat of 1995.

    In 1990 we had Major taking over from Maggie, a decent improvement in the polling despite terrible economic news and a deep recession alongside unhealthily high inflation, and the Tories scraping home in 1992.

    In 1995 we had a strengthening economy, improving public finances, reducing inflation helped by an extremely low global oil price and geopolitical stability, and a return to house price growth. The only thing continuing to get worse was the state of public services. But Blair won the 1997 election by a landslide.

    If by 2024 we are out of the inflation crisis and the economy has settled down, but the NHS is on its knees and infrastructure is falling apart at the seams, I think the Tories will lose badly.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,433
    Carnyx said:

    theakes said:

    Another very bad set of local election results for the Tories this week? Lancaster Warton massive swing to Greens, looks like the anti Con vote again found one voice.

    A possible fracking area? Or close to one?
    It is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/15/fracking-protesters-blockade-cuadrilla-site-where-uk-work-due-to-restart
    Hence the need for the tax on extraction to be local. Give the residents a big cheque, and watch the opposition disappear.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 30,484
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    darkage said:

    Sandpit said:

    boulay said:

    I wasn’t aware of this story - I wonder if it suppressed the vote for Penny in final round?

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/19747194/penny-mordaunts-paedo-brother-snared-by-undercover-cop/

    I personally don’t think that what a politician’s family member does should have any bearing on how the politician is viewed but I’m sure it would have been a nightmare.

    Think Liz T had an eventful first week - just think if Penny had been chosen.

    I just don't think that's as big a story, had Mordaunt been PM now, as you think.

    Firstly, it's a very sad story for her and other family members, but basically nobody is going to be blaming her for her brother's proclivities - certainly not the right-wing press, nor even the (smaller) left-leaning press.

    Secondly, as it happens, the story would have been completely forgotten almost immediately because the timing coincided with vastly bigger news.
    I know it’s going to be a controversial opinion, but reading that article about his offences they appear to be a clear case of entrapment. This guy has had a decent middle-class career totally ruined for posting things in a chat room, not to a child but to a police officer. There was no harm to any children as a result of his behaviour.
    The only comment I would make is that there are other similar cases which are similar, where people get quite significant prison sentences - there was a case locally where someone got sent to prison for about 8 years for a similar situation of entrapment.
    Not entrapment because the police officer is initially entirely passive.
    Unfortunate wording ...

    He thought he was talking to a child. He had the mens rea for the offence. I have absolutely no problem with people with that intent being locked up for extended periods of time.
    The story does explain why Mordaunt looked so downcast and distracted during the hustings. And hence her defeat when she seemed set for victory

    Also it sadly means its better she lost. What a nightmare for all if she was now PM

    Isn’t her Wokeness partly due to her unusual family? You can see how it might have played out
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 10,172
    edited September 2022
    Sandpit said:

    Carnyx said:

    theakes said:

    Another very bad set of local election results for the Tories this week? Lancaster Warton massive swing to Greens, looks like the anti Con vote again found one voice.

    A possible fracking area? Or close to one?
    It is.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/15/fracking-protesters-blockade-cuadrilla-site-where-uk-work-due-to-restart
    Hence the need for the tax on extraction to be local. Give the residents a big cheque, and watch the opposition disappear.
    The opposition won't disappear, it will be bussed up from London or elsewhere.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 55,345
    edited September 2022
    Just seen this tweet

    Looks like the King wants mourning to continue for 7 days after the funeral !!!!!
    Sebastian Payne
    @SebastianEPayne

    New from Buckingham Palace:

    - Kings Charles III has instructed a period of royal mourning from now until seven days after Elizabeth II's funeral - date to be confirmed.

    - Flags at all royal residences will remain at half mast until 8am the day after mourning
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,145
    edited September 2022

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liz-truss-energy-bills-price-cap-b2163536.html

    I wonder if the voters have just collectively decided now that the Tories are done

    I think people have moved from "panic" to "worried" about energy prices, and feel the Government's package is helpful but not enough to make them no longer worried - all of which is pretty reasonable.

    It's too early to guess how Truss will go down. She's had a very testing week and has come out of it reasonably well - people see her as steady, not a word readily associated with Johnson, and very welcome for most in these difficult times. OTOH her approach to enriching the energy providers with the public's money over the next generation cuts across what most people think is fair. The Queen's death has dampened the impact either way.

    I've seen a rumour that all the party conferences will be cancelled - does anyone know? Clearly the LibDems have a problem as it actually overlaps with the funeral, and everyone will understand if they decide to reschedule. Not sure the others need to?
    I think that's a fair assessment - someone seems to have done some good backroom work on the Truss Statement, including distractions for those needing distracting such as the fracking suggestion. And I think she has left enough flexibility to go in various adjusted directions as appropriate; IMO there will be something to fly unofficially in part formation with whatever EuCo do - and formal cooperation on things like the Russian Gas price cap.

    I do wonder if the late availability of the energy statement was a tactic to leave Sir Keir exposed and flapping; would his response have been the same if he had had a copy at 9:30am?

    Incidentally, did you notice that the Owen Jones Class Online thinktank was closed down yesterday?

    To me it all has a 'start from a new baseline' feel to it. With the Energy Statement, HMQ gone, and a new PM, lots of people will need to adapt or rebuild their political narratives from scratch.
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