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What’s King Charles going to say about fracking – politicalbetting.com

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786
    What a wonderful piece of good news it would be - amid the Sadness - if Russia’s invasion collapses

    There must be a tipping point when the Russian military will turn on Putin, who sent them into this pointless meat grinder, where they emerge - if alive - as loathed as the Nazis
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,434

    sarissa said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's been quite a time since I was there, but having seen some of the staff quarters and back rooms I'd say Buck House could be as difficult to renovate as the House of Commons - apart from having less complex decoration and less control-freaky occupants :smile: .

    BP is about 77k sqm of floorspace (just under 8 Hectares and about 1/3 smaller than the Palace of Westminster). They are just doing a £400m renovation project on it running until 2027, for which sustainability is an element.

    But being Duke of Cornwall, and having Highgrove and so on, I think King Charles knows all about the problems, and is quite likely to have been driving whatever they are doing for decades anyway.

    King Charles was early on greenery as we know, and has always experimented with his own property / resources. He has had solar panels on Clarence House since 2010, and I think Buck House will get them now. Plus BH has had a CHP (Combined Heat and Power) plant for nearly 30 years. Brief article here from 2016, when they were doing things like trialling LED lighting:
    https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-buckingham-palace-em5781/

    Heat pumps are not very suitable for inefficient buildings, which is Buck House in spades until heavily renovated. Like a lot of us they will need to rely on emissions-free power.

    Factoid: the first Royal Electric car was bought in 1901.
    It was renovated a year or two back for a few billion. Unlike the prima donnas in Parliament Her Majesty grasped the need to move the operation out to enable it.

    AFAICS the published number is £500m, most of which was done in advance of the Platinum Jubilee, and it is due to finish in 2027. I have not checked in huge detail, though.

    https://britishheritage.com/travel/renovatedbuckingham-palace
    I must be utterly wrong then. That can’t be a full refurb. Or if it is then those contractors need to have a look at Parliament…

    25% (or less) of the cost of a full rebuild? - does sound really inexpensive, especially if that includes contingencies and professional fees.
    The cost of trying to use a property while works are going on vs a proper rip out and redo can be huge.
    Having had experience of Employer-in-residence contracts, I hope KCIII© has the sense to take a back seat.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,520
    Holy crap. All the way to Kupyansk, visually confirmed.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1568185503962259459
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    edited September 9
    Sandpit said:

    King has left Balmoral, and is returning to London by air.

    Parliament will meet at midday, and the PM will meet the King when he arrives at Buckingham Palace.

    Source: BBC News

    Properly hatted, I hope, unlike his great uncle

    DEATH OF KING GEORGE V

    “New King arrives in his capital by air” – Daily Newspaper



    Spirits of well-shot woodcock, partridge, snipe

    Flutter and bear him up the Norfolk sky:

    In that red house in a red mahogany book-case

    The stamp collection waits with mounts long dry.



    The big blue eyes are shut which saw wrong clothing

    And favourite fields and coverts from a horse;

    Old men in country houses hear clocks ticking

    Over thick carpets with a deadened force;



    Old men who never cheated, never doubted,

    Communicated monthly, sit and stare

    At the new suburb stretched beyond the runway

    Where a young man lands hatless from the air.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,756
    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    TBF, given the ECB's track record that's not necessarily a sign it was.

    I mean, they thought the Hundred was appropriate.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,394
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    Barnesian said:

    Leon said:

    Can I just say, I know we were all alarmed by the extraordinarily frightening and saddening news yesterday, the dark dark news which flashed around the world like a wolf-howl at light speed, but it turns out I’m fine. My day of suffering on a Portuguese cliff with just warm white wine for company has left me feeling remarkably perky. No signs of the promised dehydration. I slept like a medieval effigy in a forgotten church and now I’m on my hotel terrace nibbling raspberries and figs

    So I don’t see why there is this continued, pervasive sense of gloom on PB - and elsewhere. It’s a ridiculous overreaction. I’m OK, and off for a stroll to the Isle of Peaches

    I don't have a sense of gloom.

    I feel like I did when my 94 year old mother died. Content in a funny kind of way. A life well lived. A good death. A kind release. RIP.
    Normally when very old people die I feel like that. And for the Queen herself, inasmuch as I feel anything about her, that's how I feel. I was pretty pro-Liz Windsor. How I admired her pleasant aloofness, her remoteness, her absolute refusal to emote, her suppression of her own ego, her dedication. The world is poorer for the loss of her, and for the loss of that approach. But a 96 year old lady dying is just the way the world works.
    But normally when very old people die they've long since passed on any important jobs they were doing to someone else perfectly competent to take on the role. I'm slightly worried about what a hole she's leaving and what will fill it.
    Thing is, there's no shock here, so the effect on people will likely be more of a slowburn. Me, I do feel something, but it's kind of pleasant and it's not at all intense. I like big moments (when they don't involve violence & bloodshed) and I'll enjoy sinking into this one, on and off, for a few days. Starting today, we're off to sit in a little churchyard in Hampstead to listen to them bells at noon. But only for half an hour, then it'll be up and off and business as usual. Balance maintained. Moderation in all things.
    I bet, similar to me, you can think of a few other famous people you have not met who generated a stronger response? For me: Peter Cook, Douglas Adams, Keith Flint, Spike Milligan and Jeremy Hardy come to mind.
    Dreading Keef and Dylan.
    I won't be able to speak to anyone for days when Macca goes. Probably the same for Billy Connolly. I've shed a few tears for HMQ. I was a lot sadder when John Smith died because it was so unexpected and he felt like our PM in waiting. His grave on Iona is beautiful BTW. Diana's death didn't hit me too badly at the time, I'm probably sadder about it now, having children of similar ages to William and Harry when she died. I do remember being very sad on the day of her funeral, watching them walking behind her coffin. Things like Dunblane or the New Year Tsunami were really devastating. Anything involving the death of a child is hard for me to take now, I usually have to stop listening.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    edited September 9

    Sky: all Premier League games this week postponed

    Completely crackers. The government, to be fair to it, had told the EPL and EFL that the games could go ahead.

    Tens of thousands of people have now had their weekend plans ruined. Is there any evidence that the fans wanted the games postponed?

  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631
    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited September 9
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
    Mum was 80 when she died.
    I should point out the mental health problems i suffer are clearly also a factor.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    TBF, given the ECB's track record that's not necessarily a sign it was.

    I mean, they thought the Hundred was appropriate.
    Oh, it was, if you understand what they're actually trying to do with it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,008
    sarissa said:

    sarissa said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    biggles said:

    MattW said:

    On topic, I think he'll shut up, carefully saying "My Government believes..." and "My Government will...". Otherwise he'll get monstered by the Tory media and republicans alike. However, he'll compensate by being notably environmental in less contriversial areas. For example, the Palace presumably has a fleet of cars. It would be easy for him to announce that they will all be replaced by electric cars in the next few years. How is the Palace heated? What about puting in heat pumps?

    A wind farm in one of his estates would be fun too.

    It's been quite a time since I was there, but having seen some of the staff quarters and back rooms I'd say Buck House could be as difficult to renovate as the House of Commons - apart from having less complex decoration and less control-freaky occupants :smile: .

    BP is about 77k sqm of floorspace (just under 8 Hectares and about 1/3 smaller than the Palace of Westminster). They are just doing a £400m renovation project on it running until 2027, for which sustainability is an element.

    But being Duke of Cornwall, and having Highgrove and so on, I think King Charles knows all about the problems, and is quite likely to have been driving whatever they are doing for decades anyway.

    King Charles was early on greenery as we know, and has always experimented with his own property / resources. He has had solar panels on Clarence House since 2010, and I think Buck House will get them now. Plus BH has had a CHP (Combined Heat and Power) plant for nearly 30 years. Brief article here from 2016, when they were doing things like trialling LED lighting:
    https://www.energymatters.com.au/renewable-news/solar-buckingham-palace-em5781/

    Heat pumps are not very suitable for inefficient buildings, which is Buck House in spades until heavily renovated. Like a lot of us they will need to rely on emissions-free power.

    Factoid: the first Royal Electric car was bought in 1901.
    It was renovated a year or two back for a few billion. Unlike the prima donnas in Parliament Her Majesty grasped the need to move the operation out to enable it.

    AFAICS the published number is £500m, most of which was done in advance of the Platinum Jubilee, and it is due to finish in 2027. I have not checked in huge detail, though.

    https://britishheritage.com/travel/renovatedbuckingham-palace
    I must be utterly wrong then. That can’t be a full refurb. Or if it is then those contractors need to have a look at Parliament…

    25% (or less) of the cost of a full rebuild? - does sound really inexpensive, especially if that includes contingencies and professional fees.
    The cost of trying to use a property while works are going on vs a proper rip out and redo can be huge.
    Having had experience of Employer-in-residence contracts, I hope KCIII© has the sense to take a back seat.
    Why the copyright emblem? Charles Edward Stuart coined that long ago, so it's public domain by now.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    Stocky said:

    Sky: all Premier League games this week postponed

    Do you support that decision?
    The government had told the PL and EFL that the games could go ahead.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,756
    Driver said:

    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    TBF, given the ECB's track record that's not necessarily a sign it was.

    I mean, they thought the Hundred was appropriate.
    Oh, it was, if you understand what they're actually trying to do with it.
    Well, even the ECB might get things right occasionally. Improbable though that may seem to the rest of us.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,920
    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    It is reasonable to ask what is it about modern life that makes it appropriate now, when it wasn't in a more formal era after George VIs death.

    The answer is we are becoming more puritanical, and it is okay for some of us to lament that shift.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 10,394
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    King has left Balmoral, and is returning to London by air.

    Parliament will meet at midday, and the PM will meet the King when he arrives at Buckingham Palace.

    And this seems quite wrong the other way. His mum died yesterday. Surely at least a week of mourning for the family is appropriate? Why do we get things completely arse about face when it comes to the royals?

    We shut down a Test match, but a bloke who has lost his mother not 24 hours earlier has to spend the day glad-handing politicians.
    It is his job.

    HMQ did not die to spite you personally. Death is an unalterable fact of life, monarchy in the UK a pretty deeply embedded one, and consequences arise from both.
    A former conductor of mine, when members of the choir breathed in the wrong place, would glare at them/us and say menacingly, 'Breathing is very dangerous. Everyone who breathes, dies.'
    And everyone who doesn't dies quicker.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
    Mum was 80 when she died.
    Ah. Apologies for asking. My mum is 88 and alive but with a life not worth living. I hope when she dies my reaction will be to celebrate her life rather than mourn her passing though I guess it may be different when the time comes.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 5,778

    Holy crap. All the way to Kupyansk, visually confirmed.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1568185503962259459

    Damn, I've only just uploaded a picture of the Ukrainian flag flying at Shevchenkove as my FB profile picture, it's out of date already
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 57,127
    Ukrainian forces will likely capture Kupyansk in the next 72 hours, severely degrading but not completely severing Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum,
    @TheStudyofWar says


    4 hours later:

    “Kupyansk”
    Good lord, what’s going on.


    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1568185503962259459
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 54,756

    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    King has left Balmoral, and is returning to London by air.

    Parliament will meet at midday, and the PM will meet the King when he arrives at Buckingham Palace.

    And this seems quite wrong the other way. His mum died yesterday. Surely at least a week of mourning for the family is appropriate? Why do we get things completely arse about face when it comes to the royals?

    We shut down a Test match, but a bloke who has lost his mother not 24 hours earlier has to spend the day glad-handing politicians.
    It is his job.

    HMQ did not die to spite you personally. Death is an unalterable fact of life, monarchy in the UK a pretty deeply embedded one, and consequences arise from both.
    A former conductor of mine, when members of the choir breathed in the wrong place, would glare at them/us and say menacingly, 'Breathing is very dangerous. Everyone who breathes, dies.'
    And everyone who doesn't dies quicker.
    I dunno. He could be pretty lethal with that conductor's baton.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 28,786

    Ukrainian forces will likely capture Kupyansk in the next 72 hours, severely degrading but not completely severing Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum,
    @TheStudyofWar says


    4 hours later:

    “Kupyansk”
    Good lord, what’s going on.


    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1568185503962259459


    Run, you Nazi fucks. Run!

    Are we allowed to gloat? I think we are definitely allowed to gloat. Just don’t want to do it prematurely
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Ah, some self-awareness at last.
  • Interesting side effect from the sad events I hadn't realised. Not sure if it has ben mentioned yet today

    All Royal Warrants "By Appointment to ..." etc are issued by specific monarchs. When that monarch dies they become void. All companies and organisations must stop using the coat of arms and the title within 2 years.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    It is reasonable to ask what is it about modern life that makes it appropriate now, when it wasn't in a more formal era after George VIs death.

    The answer is we are becoming more puritanical, and it is okay for some of us to lament that shift.
    wiki

    A period of national mourning followed George VI's death. Rugby and hockey games were postponed, though football matches continued with the singing of the national anthem and the hymn "Abide With Me" before each game.[2] Memorial services were held in churches of all denominations across the country and around the world, even in communist states.[4] There was some opposition to the mourning, social researchers from Mass-Observation recorded one 60-year-old woman who asked: "Don't they think of old folk, sick people, invalids? It's been terrible for them, all this gloom". On another occasion the organisation recorded that a fight broke out in a Notting Hill bar after one man said of the King, "He's only shit and soil now like anyone else".[2]

    Perhaps we can't have footie with Abide with Me because people now boo it?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    It may be appropriate - that's for our government to decide. I don't even think that organisations such as ECB are motivated by appropriateness - more a case of corporate image and a fear of being criticised, even if only by a vocal minority.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 9,936
    edited September 9

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    It is reasonable to ask what is it about modern life that makes it appropriate now, when it wasn't in a more formal era after George VIs death.

    The answer is we are becoming more puritanical, and it is okay for some of us to lament that shift.
    Probably because of precisely how this isn't such a formal era, people are more sentimental and mawkish now.

    In a more formal era the decision "it can go ahead" is met with "it goes ahead".

    People are free to make the choice they want to make. The football authorities haven't been dictated to, they've made their own decision, respect that either way. Don't like that? Set up your own football authority and run your own decisions.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 2,010
    Stocky said:

    Sky: all Premier League games this week postponed

    Do you support that decision?
    I'm just informing the site!

    I think most fans would have wanted the games to go ahead. This MAY apply implicit pressure for other events eg EFL, the Test, racing to be cancelled even though the decision for these tests elsewhere.

    I am due to go to the Test Match tomorrow, if it goes ahead I will be there.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    It is reasonable to ask what is it about modern life that makes it appropriate now, when it wasn't in a more formal era after George VIs death.

    The answer is we are becoming more puritanical, and it is okay for some of us to lament that shift.
    Lament, yes. Make prats of themselves yesterday evening and again this morning, no.

    You might well have made a different decision, as might I. Doesn't matter - the decision isn't ours to make. If they'd made a different decision, people would have complained about that too.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    edited September 9
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
    Mum was 80 when she died.
    Ah. Apologies for asking. My mum is 88 and alive but with a life not worth living. I hope when she dies my reaction will be to celebrate her life rather than mourn her passing though I guess it may be different when the time comes.
    I had hoped to too but it transpires that for me, for now, as Edna St Vincent Millay once wrote 'Time does not bring relief, you all have lied....'
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,162

    Ukrainian forces will likely capture Kupyansk in the next 72 hours, severely degrading but not completely severing Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum,
    @TheStudyofWar says


    4 hours later:

    “Kupyansk”
    Good lord, what’s going on.


    https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/status/1568185503962259459

    That's on the outskirts of the town - they need the river crossing....

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Kup'yans'k,+Kharkiv+Oblast,+Ukraine,+63701/@49.7293552,37.5159003,18991m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x4120d75c701fc6d7:0xd2d56a3f976d8606!8m2!3d49.7055574!4d37.6027997
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Huffle, puffle. You can't please everybody, and decisions get taken by the people with the power to take them. Sometimes they are wrong, and sometimes other people might have decided different.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    Interesting side effect from the sad events I hadn't realised. Not sure if it has ben mentioned yet today

    All Royal Warrants "By Appointment to ..." etc are issued by specific monarchs. When that monarch dies they become void. All companies and organisations must stop using the coat of arms and the title within 2 years.

    Presumably those that had a Royal Warrant from Charles will be at least semi-automatically upgraded.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    It may be appropriate - that's for our government to decide. I don't even think that organisations such as ECB are motivated by appropriateness - more a case of corporate image and a fear of being criticised, even if only by a vocal minority.
    Indeed. Grief signalling, I think one could call it.

    Because there is no government mandate to cancel, I assume that all hotels and transport bookings made by fans aren't insured?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The people who are unhappy are louder than the people who are happy.

    Who knew?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,179
    edited September 9
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
    Mum was 80 when she died.
    Ah. Apologies for asking. My mum is 88 and alive but with a life not worth living. I hope when she dies my reaction will be to celebrate her life rather than mourn her passing though I guess it may be different when the time comes.
    I was told something similar the other day; I have some spinal difficulties which means that, among other things I have almost no use of my hands apart from very simple pressings. I went for treatment somewhere the other day and was told of course we've got to treat you; your quality of life is now not good but it could be so much better!
    I could go back to working on the local museum!
    As someone once said to me "other museums have dinosaurs on display; we have them working in ours! "
  • Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
    Mum was 80 when she died.
    Ah. Apologies for asking. My mum is 88 and alive but with a life not worth living. I hope when she dies my reaction will be to celebrate her life rather than mourn her passing though I guess it may be different when the time comes.
    My experience is you do both
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    It may be appropriate - that's for our government to decide. I don't even think that organisations such as ECB are motivated by appropriateness - more a case of corporate image and a fear of being criticised, even if only by a vocal minority.
    Except that they will get criticised by a vocal minority whatever the decision. As we are seeing.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    Driver said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Ah, some self-awareness at last.
    Do you support the decision to cancel the entire football calendar this weekend?
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,250
    Well if Putin 'IS' going to do anything crazy we can't be far off that point now.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,920

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    It is reasonable to ask what is it about modern life that makes it appropriate now, when it wasn't in a more formal era after George VIs death.

    The answer is we are becoming more puritanical, and it is okay for some of us to lament that shift.
    Probably because of precisely how this isn't such a formal era, people are more sentimental and mawkish now.

    In a more formal era the decision "it can go ahead" is met with "it goes ahead".

    People are free to make the choice they want to make. The football authorities haven't been dictated to, they've made their own decision, respect that either way. Don't like that? Set up your own football authority and run your own decisions.
    I don't think they are being dictated to, but I do feel they are making a decision out of fear and a false sense of piety rather than practicality. I wish that were not the prevailing mood, but it is.

    Keep calm and carry on, with national anthem and minutes silence before each game would have been a far better tribute to the Queen, imo.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 5,513

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    Driver said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Ah, some self-awareness at last.
    Do you support the decision to cancel the entire football calendar this weekend?
    I support the right of the football authorities to make that decision.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281

    Driver said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Ah, some self-awareness at last.
    Do you support the decision to cancel the entire football calendar this weekend?
    I support the right of the football authorities to make their own decision without being compelled either way.

    Don't you?
    Listening to fans might be an idea.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Tough. They are the organisers of these events and they have the right to decide if they think circumstances warrant them being called off. Just because you don't think any of this matters doesn't mean that millions of other people feel the same way. They are showing respect during a period of mourning for the whole country. Now you may not want to take part in that mourning in which case go read a book or watch a DVD. But your criticism of organisations showing respect for someone who has served and guided this country for the last 70 years frankly stinks.

    No one is forcing you or Anabob to do one single thing. Stop behaving like a child because you can't have your sweeties.
    Do the fans want these games called off?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,008

    Driver said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Ah, some self-awareness at last.
    Do you support the decision to cancel the entire football calendar this weekend?
    I support the right of the football authorities to make their own decision without being compelled either way.

    Don't you?
    Listening to fans might be an idea.
    Bit revolutionary for the footie authorities, from what I gather, isn't it?
  • Driver said:

    Interesting side effect from the sad events I hadn't realised. Not sure if it has ben mentioned yet today

    All Royal Warrants "By Appointment to ..." etc are issued by specific monarchs. When that monarch dies they become void. All companies and organisations must stop using the coat of arms and the title within 2 years.

    Presumably those that had a Royal Warrant from Charles will be at least semi-automatically upgraded.
    I assume so. I think it is specific to the person and the status of 'By Royal Appointment.." persists as long as the relevant Royal does.

    I think...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,179

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.
    More like the Faragist right!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
  • Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Tough. They are the organisers of these events and they have the right to decide if they think circumstances warrant them being called off. Just because you don't think any of this matters doesn't mean that millions of other people feel the same way. They are showing respect during a period of mourning for the whole country. Now you may not want to take part in that mourning in which case go read a book or watch a DVD. But your criticism of organisations showing respect for someone who has served and guided this country for the last 70 years frankly stinks.

    No one is forcing you or Anabob to do one single thing. Stop behaving like a child because you can't have your sweeties.
    Do the fans want these games called off?
    I don't care. It is appropriate whatever they might think.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Tough. They are the organisers of these events and they have the right to decide if they think circumstances warrant them being called off. Just because you don't think any of this matters doesn't mean that millions of other people feel the same way. They are showing respect during a period of mourning for the whole country. Now you may not want to take part in that mourning in which case go read a book or watch a DVD. But your criticism of organisations showing respect for someone who has served and guided this country for the last 70 years frankly stinks.

    No one is forcing you or Anabob to do one single thing. Stop behaving like a child because you can't have your sweeties.
    It's not a matter of sweeties - I don't care either way personally - I think this comes down to you being less cynical of the motives of these large organisations than I am. As I have said, if the government mandates a day of mourning and closes everything I have no problem with this.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    Driver said:

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The people who are unhappy are louder than the people who are happy.

    Who knew?

    What proportion of ticket-holders do you think are happy with the decision? Make a rough stab at it if you like
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,174
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    King has left Balmoral, and is returning to London by air.

    Parliament will meet at midday, and the PM will meet the King when he arrives at Buckingham Palace.

    And this seems quite wrong the other way. His mum died yesterday. Surely at least a week of mourning for the family is appropriate? Why do we get things completely arse about face when it comes to the royals?

    We shut down a Test match, but a bloke who has lost his mother not 24 hours earlier has to spend the day glad-handing politicians.
    It is his job.

    HMQ did not die to spite you personally. Death is an unalterable fact of life, monarchy in the UK a pretty deeply embedded one, and consequences arise from both.
    A former conductor of mine, when members of the choir breathed in the wrong place, would glare at them/us and say menacingly, 'Breathing is very dangerous. Everyone who breathes, dies.'
    The survivors must have been a pretty special bunch.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281

    As I comment I can hear the local church bells tolling!

    Same here
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 9,936
    edited September 9

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Driver said:

    Interesting side effect from the sad events I hadn't realised. Not sure if it has ben mentioned yet today

    All Royal Warrants "By Appointment to ..." etc are issued by specific monarchs. When that monarch dies they become void. All companies and organisations must stop using the coat of arms and the title within 2 years.

    Presumably those that had a Royal Warrant from Charles will be at least semi-automatically upgraded.
    I assume so. I think it is specific to the person and the status of 'By Royal Appointment.." persists as long as the relevant Royal does.

    I think...
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59596996

    I was thinking it might be my loyal duty to drink up everything from Berry Bros and Rudd in the house, but it looks as if Charles is on board with them in his own right. So it's just the Andrex and the ketchup.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Tough. They are the organisers of these events and they have the right to decide if they think circumstances warrant them being called off. Just because you don't think any of this matters doesn't mean that millions of other people feel the same way. They are showing respect during a period of mourning for the whole country. Now you may not want to take part in that mourning in which case go read a book or watch a DVD. But your criticism of organisations showing respect for someone who has served and guided this country for the last 70 years frankly stinks.

    No one is forcing you or Anabob to do one single thing. Stop behaving like a child because you can't have your sweeties.
    Do the fans want these games called off?
    I don't care. It is appropriate whatever they might think.
    According to you. If you don't want to watch the game, nobody is forcing you to. Why would you want to impose your views on everyone else? The government is happy for the games to go ahead.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,920

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 35,591

    Sky: all Premier League games this week postponed

    Completely crackers. The government, to be fair to it, had told the EPL and EFL that the games could go ahead.

    Tens of thousands of people have now had their weekend plans ruined. Is there any evidence that the fans wanted the games postponed?

    Leicester fans are hoping that we can be rid of Rodgers by the rescheduled fixture, so quite content.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Ah, some self-awareness at last.
    Do you support the decision to cancel the entire football calendar this weekend?
    I support the right of the football authorities to make that decision.

    Do you support their decision, is the question I asked.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,174

    Interesting side effect from the sad events I hadn't realised. Not sure if it has ben mentioned yet today

    All Royal Warrants "By Appointment to ..." etc are issued by specific monarchs. When that monarch dies they become void. All companies and organisations must stop using the coat of arms and the title within 2 years.

    Big commercial opportunity for 'Duchy Originals'...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Tough. They are the organisers of these events and they have the right to decide if they think circumstances warrant them being called off. Just because you don't think any of this matters doesn't mean that millions of other people feel the same way. They are showing respect during a period of mourning for the whole country. Now you may not want to take part in that mourning in which case go read a book or watch a DVD. But your criticism of organisations showing respect for someone who has served and guided this country for the last 70 years frankly stinks.

    No one is forcing you or Anabob to do one single thing. Stop behaving like a child because you can't have your sweeties.
    Do the fans want these games called off?
    I don't care. It is appropriate whatever they might think.
    What about their unrecoverable expenses, such as travel tickets and accommodations booked? Surely you have sympathy here? Should the cancelling organisation be liable for a decision they need not have taken?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    LOL. Quite.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,281
    Foxy said:

    Sky: all Premier League games this week postponed

    Completely crackers. The government, to be fair to it, had told the EPL and EFL that the games could go ahead.

    Tens of thousands of people have now had their weekend plans ruined. Is there any evidence that the fans wanted the games postponed?

    Leicester fans are hoping that we can be rid of Rodgers by the rescheduled fixture, so quite content.
    You also need to sack the board by the sounds of it!
  • A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    Libertarianism is about people and organisations being able to make their own decisions instead of the Government deciding for you - which is precisely what has happened here. The Government didn't make the decision, the relevant authority chose to make its own decision about what happened to events in its own organisation.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,920

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    Libertarianism is about people and organisations being able to make their own decisions instead of the Government deciding for you - which is precisely what has happened here. The Government didn't make the decision, the relevant authority chose to make its own decision about what happened to events in its own organisation.
    Football belongs to all, not just the suits.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Tough. They are the organisers of these events and they have the right to decide if they think circumstances warrant them being called off. Just because you don't think any of this matters doesn't mean that millions of other people feel the same way. They are showing respect during a period of mourning for the whole country. Now you may not want to take part in that mourning in which case go read a book or watch a DVD. But your criticism of organisations showing respect for someone who has served and guided this country for the last 70 years frankly stinks.

    No one is forcing you or Anabob to do one single thing. Stop behaving like a child because you can't have your sweeties.
    Do the fans want these games called off?
    I don't care. It is appropriate whatever they might think.
    According to you. If you don't want to watch the game, nobody is forcing you to. Why would you want to impose your views on everyone else? The government is happy for the games to go ahead.
    He's not the one wanting to impose his views on everyone else - you are.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 2,160

    Driver said:

    Driver said:

    Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Absolutely. There has been some Grade-A bilge on PB today.
    Ah, some self-awareness at last.
    Do you support the decision to cancel the entire football calendar this weekend?
    I support the right of the football authorities to make that decision.

    Do you support their decision, is the question I asked.
    And you got my answer, which hasn't changed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,028

    Interesting side effect from the sad events I hadn't realised. Not sure if it has ben mentioned yet today

    All Royal Warrants "By Appointment to ..." etc are issued by specific monarchs. When that monarch dies they become void. All companies and organisations must stop using the coat of arms and the title within 2 years.

    Not quite!

    The Duke of Edinburgh and Prince of Wales also had the right to Grant them. About 20% were issued by the PoW. And a small number by the DofE (which became void on his death).

    I have no idea what happens to the By Appointment to the Prince of Wales ones.

    /pendant

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 2,771
    St Leger is off for tomorrow, but will take place on Sunday, with an extended race card.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    Cyclefree said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.

    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
    Mum was 80 when she died.
    I should point out the mental health problems i suffer are clearly also a factor.
    Take care of yourself. Big hugs.
    Thank you.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Waaaaah

    the kickball community

    [Respectful silence]

    everybody else.
  • A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    The FA is a shower of shite but I can't find fault with them here.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,648
    TUC conference cancelled
  • Stocky said:

    Driver said:

    I do hope we aren’t going to start randomly cancelling stuff. We have spent the best of two and a half years shutting stuff down willy nilly.

    Let people make their own decisions. Why is the cricket cancelled today?

    Because the ECB decided that they didn't want to play, either as a sign of respect, or in part due to fear about how it might look to the public.

    This really isn't a big deal. Organisations are making their own decisions and you seem really upset by the decisions being made. Keep calm and carry on (or not, as the case may be).
    “ part due to fear about how it might look to the public”

    Is there any evidence that the public oppose the staging of such events? Should we also close shops and pubs and schools and workplaces because of a fear of how it would look if the Dog & Duck remains open?
    Personally I'm just not bothered either way. I'm happy for the ECB, and other organisations to make their own mind up.

    I know a lot of my knit group friends are still all excited about the Perth Festival of Yarn this weekend that is still going ahead. The ECB have made a different decision. That's up to them. I'm really not fussed. There's no edict coming down telling people what to do, forcing them to call things off. I don't see why you're so upset. It's exactly the situation you are asking for.
    No, it's not. Unless the ECB have some evidence that one or both of the paying public and the players want the match cancelled, why have they cancelled it?
    The answer to that is the same as the last dozen times you asked it: because they thought it was appropriate.
    They are imposing - with no government mandate - what THEY thought was appropriate on the lives of other who may not feel that it is appropriate.
    Tough. They are the organisers of these events and they have the right to decide if they think circumstances warrant them being called off. Just because you don't think any of this matters doesn't mean that millions of other people feel the same way. They are showing respect during a period of mourning for the whole country. Now you may not want to take part in that mourning in which case go read a book or watch a DVD. But your criticism of organisations showing respect for someone who has served and guided this country for the last 70 years frankly stinks.

    No one is forcing you or Anabob to do one single thing. Stop behaving like a child because you can't have your sweeties.
    Do the fans want these games called off?
    I don't care. It is appropriate whatever they might think.
    According to you. If you don't want to watch the game, nobody is forcing you to. Why would you want to impose your views on everyone else? The government is happy for the games to go ahead.
    Since when have you ever cared about what the Government thinks? Having criticised them continuously for as long as I can remember you don't get to hide behind them now.

    The people organising these events have decided that it is right and proper to show respect for the Queen by postponing matches. Just as hundreds of other organisations have done across the country for this weekend. It is a pause and is appropriate. You come over like a spoiled child by deriding and criticising it so vehemently.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 45,174
    This is a pretty good essay.

    The Point of Being Blunt
    On arcs, inflection points, and the record of presidents who say things plainly. As Biden has now done.
    https://fallows.substack.com/p/the-point-of-being-blunt
  • Assassin Liz still wearing her bondage necklace as she pays tribute...
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,521
    Leon said:
    It seems as if the "areas of control" was in fact a narrow "line of control". The Ukrainians broke the line and then have had a free run at the areas behind.

    Apparently Russian media is now putting out images of huge reinforcements being sent.

    Russian state media with footage of sizeable reinforcements heading toward Kharkiv region. Desperately needed considering the way Ukraine’s offensive is going.
    https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1568190728886444032

    Looks to me to be repeated footage of the same few tanks, trucks and a solitary howitzer. So I hope I'm not wrong in saying that the Russians look like they are in serious trouble now.
  • A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    Libertarianism is about people and organisations being able to make their own decisions instead of the Government deciding for you - which is precisely what has happened here. The Government didn't make the decision, the relevant authority chose to make its own decision about what happened to events in its own organisation.
    Football belongs to all, not just the suits.
    The Football League and Premier League do not. The Premier League is a private company.

    You can have a kickabout with your mates if you want.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 2,639

    Sean_F said:

    It looks like continuing good news for Ukraine:

    @wartranslated
    Wagner Grey Zone believes both Izyum and Kuypansk may in fact be completely cut off by now.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1568170459400634368

    It seems like a rout to me.
    I dont want to get carried away but is the Russian border well sign-posted so they know when to stop?
    Let’s call it Moscow for a decent buffer zone.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,521
    Great North Run going ahead...

    Sunday’s #GreatNorthRun will go ahead as planned.

    Whilst we want runners to enjoy the day, we encourage everyone to be mindful of the very special circumstances in which the event will be taking place.

    https://twitter.com/Great_Run/status/1568195612583018496

    They say that it is important the fundraising goes ahead. I agree.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 30,162
    biggles said:

    Sean_F said:

    It looks like continuing good news for Ukraine:

    @wartranslated
    Wagner Grey Zone believes both Izyum and Kuypansk may in fact be completely cut off by now.


    https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1568170459400634368

    It seems like a rout to me.
    I dont want to get carried away but is the Russian border well sign-posted so they know when to stop?
    Let’s call it Moscow for a decent buffer zone.
    What's wrong with the Chinese border?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 10,520
    Stocky said:

    kinabalu said:

    mwadams said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Cookie said:

    Very peculiar email from work on the subject: - "speak to your line manager if it [the death of the queen] is impacting you particularly to ensure we can put in the right steps for you."

    I'm fairly sure there are no members of the royal family work at our place.

    This is exactly what I was lamenting earlier passing with the queen - the inability to just get on with things without emoting all over the place.

    It's when you see emails like that that you think (well, I think, anyway) that you could cheerfully sack about 90% of all HR departments without any loss at all.
    To be fair to them, there is a well-known psychological effect that, when confronted with the death of a public figure, a person can be quite badly affected for "no apparent reason" - usually because they have a mental health issue related to personal grief that is perhaps supressed under normal circumstances.
    Reading Casino's posts last night - which were clearly sincere - there are people needing some understanding and support.
    I said yesterday i was worried this was going to turn into proxy grief for Mum for me, and so it has. Ive been inexplicably tearful and uneasy given I am not even a monarchist to any degree. This event will draw out emotion, deep unhappiness and hidden grief in many of us. Especially after the downright evil suppressive effects of Covid and Lockdown.
    At the risk of being insensitive, was your mum a similar age to the queen? Personally, I feel that when an oldie in poor health dies it is more a matter of celebration of their life rather than a sadness at their death. I hope I don't make it to 96.
    My Grandad died at the age of 97 (five years ago). He said himself that he never expected to live to 90, so no complaints that he died too young, but I was upset. However illogical it might be, I'd come to expect that he would always be there. And then he wasn't.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 8,631

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    Libertarianism is about people and organisations being able to make their own decisions instead of the Government deciding for you - which is precisely what has happened here. The Government didn't make the decision, the relevant authority chose to make its own decision about what happened to events in its own organisation.
    Football belongs to all, not just the suits.
    The Football League and Premier League do not. The Premier League is a private company.

    You can have a kickabout with your mates if you want.
    Jumpers for goalposts.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 15,920

    A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    Libertarianism is about people and organisations being able to make their own decisions instead of the Government deciding for you - which is precisely what has happened here. The Government didn't make the decision, the relevant authority chose to make its own decision about what happened to events in its own organisation.
    Football belongs to all, not just the suits.
    The Football League and Premier League do not. The Premier League is a private company.

    You can have a kickabout with your mates if you want.
    Ultimately they do, see the failed European Super League. The fans are integral to the organisations, even without a share of formal ownership.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,886
    Good speech from the PM.
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 1,521
    The kids football club have just been emailed by the FA asking for all football matches to be cancelled this weekend. My 9yo son will be in tears now.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 7,273
    edited September 9
    Some very interesting quotes from the 1980s which I've seen in the last 24 hours.

    Apparently, Norman Tebbit was furious about Charles's murmurings on Thatcherism, which I never knew about. "It's not surprising Prince Charles feels so sympathetic to the unemployed. He is by way of being one of them himself."

    This was apparently only two years after Downing Street had compained about the Queen's 1983 Christmas message, where she had said that global inequality was one of the world's most pressing problems, and that the richer countries must help the poorer with technological solutions to this. This was followed by the 1986 Sunday Times report that the Queen was extremely worried about Thatcher "pushing the country apart", both in the inner cities and in ex-industrial areas.

    What more necessary counterweight and steadying of a Prime Minister who also, in a very different way, fixates on the 1980's, could there be.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 2,738
    Sandpit said:

    Good speech from the PM.

    It's interesting: another example of good content but very school speech day delivery. Much less irritating than a Boris-delivered version would have been though.
  • DynamoDynamo Posts: 651
    edited September 9
    The National Mourning Guidance is here.

    It's only "guidance", mind. It's not like choosing a baby's name in Norway, or a haircut in North Korea. It's all about "you may wish" to do this, and "you may wish" to do that.

    "This guide is intended to provide the public, businesses and institutions with an explanation of National Mourning, and outline some practical advice on how you or your organisation may wish to observe public mourning during this period."
  • A quick scout of Premier League fans forums reveals that this is a deeply unpopular decision.

    Who knew?

    The football authorities have got this wrong, given that it wasn't forced by the government. Playing or watching football is not disrespectful. A minute's silence (or whatever) at all the games would have been unifying - sharing respect.

    Cancel culture has gone mad, but we can't blame the woke left.

    Indeed the government were quite clear that they were happy for the games to go ahead, as you say suggesting minutes silence and armbands (although not mandating even those).
    The government haven't made the decision, the football authorities have, that's their job. It should be respected.

    If they chose to go ahead with a minutes silence, that should be respected. If they choose to postpone, that should be respected. Its their choice, not yours, not mine, not the governments and not fans either.
    Since when did libertarians become so deferential that football fans can't disagree with the people who run football authorities without being criticised for holding an opinion?
    Libertarianism is about people and organisations being able to make their own decisions instead of the Government deciding for you - which is precisely what has happened here. The Government didn't make the decision, the relevant authority chose to make its own decision about what happened to events in its own organisation.
    Football belongs to all, not just the suits.
    The Football League and Premier League do not. The Premier League is a private company.

    You can have a kickabout with your mates if you want.
    Ultimately they do, see the failed European Super League. The fans are integral to the organisations, even without a share of formal ownership.
    And the authorities have to decide what they think their fans want.

    Some fans will want the games to go ahead.
    Some fans will want the games postponed.

    Waiting until everyone wants the games to be played is the decision they've reached. They have the right to make that decision, its their choice, go and play a game yourself if you want.
This discussion has been closed.