The first findings from the Grey report don’t look good for Johnson – politicalbetting.com
Comments
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Full Sue Gray report WILL be published.
No 10: "But, at the end of the process, the Prime Minister will ask Sue Gray to update her work in light of what is found. He will publish that update."
Was obvious that the line on that wasn't going to hold
https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/14882076050340085770 -
Rotherham next week at this rate!Pulpstar said:Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
Absolubtely shameful.0 -
I may be biased but Sri Lanka is amazing for food. Shame about the politicians (corruption, war criminals etc. etc.)Leon said:
Superb food everywhere! I just this minute finished one of the best Goan prawn curries of my lifemurali_s said:
By the way, how was Sri Lanka this time? Hope you managed to get some decent food this time...Leon said:
We must agree to differ. For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majoritymurali_s said:
The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.Leon said:
I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the pollskle4 said:
Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.Leon said:Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea
I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.
It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.
I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.
Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque
We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
Has he squandered all that with his idiotic lies and silly marriage and hie venal inability to focus? Yes, that too
So now it is time for him to go as he has been revealed as a lying twat good for not much more than winning campaigns (which he does brilliantly) and telling decent jokes. Off you toddle, now, Boris
But will he? All my points today have been practical not ideological. I can see him surviving, quite easily. Indeed I can see him winning another, slender majority in 2024. His mortal enemy is not partygate, not any more, it is tax and inflation
I must have been incredibly unlucky on my last trip Too many posh places and then too many unlucky choices on the street
The food this time has been outstanding. Last night I had s Sri Lankan mud crab curry with this hybrid Med/Asian seafood broth to start
OMFFFFG. Cost £11. In an ultra high end place
I’ve also eaten off the street, very well, for literal pennies: all good, some sensational. I am a convert!
Hopefully you have frequented Paradise Road (Gallery Cafe), Ministry of Crab, Barefoot Cafe (boho/hippy kind of place), Noodles in Cinnamon Grand and the Chinese at Cinnamon Lakeside and many many more...
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It would be a politically very powerful manoeuvre by Starmer. Because I think you are right, if the timing is right it could lead to double figures of Tory MPs walking out the party to vote against him.IanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?0 -
LOL
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Number 10 commits to publishing the full Sue Gray report - BBC News0
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Brady's never revealed who sent him letters about Theresa May & he doesn't strike me as the type to leak to Boris.Nigel_Foremain said:
One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essentialFarooq said:Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?
That was FORTY SIX days ago.
The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.
I'd probably hand him a paper copy if I was a Tory MP though, you never know if No 10 has a blind cc on Brady's e-mails...2 -
The only answer can be surely, given human beings (even conservative MP ones) are rational, that the public outside the cities care less about parties than they do about being able to heat themselves and pay their bills over the next 18 months.Big_G_NorthWales said:I never thought I would say this but I agree with everything Ian Blackford has just said on Sky just now
As a conservative for near 60 years of my life, apart from 1997 and 2001, I am in despair that conservative mps cannot just do the right thing and remove Boris
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The thing is, it’s heartbreaking to watch a country you love plumb new depths. It’s like watching a family member develop a drug addiction, or become a QAnon conspiracy theorist.TheScreamingEagles said:
I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.Mexicanpete said:
France?TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
I feel much happier now that I’ve left.
I’m under no illusions about the USA, but I don’t have any familial attachment to it. Trump etc offends me on an intellectual level, but not on an emotional one.0 -
I was going to make some comment asking whether you were referring to Sri Lanka or the UK. But I do realise that given Sri Lanka's recent history it is a problem of another order over there.murali_s said:
I may be biased but Sri Lanka is amazing for food. Shame about the politicians (corruption, war criminals etc. etc.)Leon said:
Superb food everywhere! I just this minute finished one of the best Goan prawn curries of my lifemurali_s said:
By the way, how was Sri Lanka this time? Hope you managed to get some decent food this time...Leon said:
We must agree to differ. For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majoritymurali_s said:
The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.Leon said:
I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the pollskle4 said:
Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.Leon said:Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea
I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.
It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.
I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.
Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque
We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
Has he squandered all that with his idiotic lies and silly marriage and hie venal inability to focus? Yes, that too
So now it is time for him to go as he has been revealed as a lying twat good for not much more than winning campaigns (which he does brilliantly) and telling decent jokes. Off you toddle, now, Boris
But will he? All my points today have been practical not ideological. I can see him surviving, quite easily. Indeed I can see him winning another, slender majority in 2024. His mortal enemy is not partygate, not any more, it is tax and inflation
I must have been incredibly unlucky on my last trip Too many posh places and then too many unlucky choices on the street
The food this time has been outstanding. Last night I had s Sri Lankan mud crab curry with this hybrid Med/Asian seafood broth to start
OMFFFFG. Cost £11. In an ultra high end place
I’ve also eaten off the street, very well, for literal pennies: all good, some sensational. I am a convert!1 -
It is easy to mock. How many people do you know who will put their jobs and their career on the line on a point of principle? And in the knowledge that colleagues might just turn around and say "that's brave" and let you have your head shot off above the proverbial parapet?Farooq said:
I wonder at what point they think it's "essential".Nigel_Foremain said:
One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essentialFarooq said:Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?
That was FORTY SIX days ago.
The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.
I'll be honest, I'm sorta done with the Kremlinology of why they are useless (blackmail! self interest! stupidity!). It's enough to know that they are collectively a waste of space.0 -
There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic AlternativeIanB2 said:
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.Scott_xP said:
A spineGardenwalker said:So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.0 -
R4 reporting no.10 has now yielded to pressure and committing to publish whatever Gray reports after the Met have finished investigating0
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A parliamentary confidence vote is in the government, not the PM. It also has FTPA implications.IanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?2 -
Mr. Eagles, I would say stay.
Every country has high and low points. This is not a great time. But things will improve.0 -
Another UKIP MP on the horizon?Andy_JS said:
Well that was because it was regarded as a bit distasteful to stand in this particular by-election.IanB2 said:
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.Scott_xP said:
A spineGardenwalker said:So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.0 -
I think Tissue Price should be favourite to hold N-U-L if he stands againCyclefree said:
He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.Scott_xP said:'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'
Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1
As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.
I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.
No wonder he looked thunderous.
1) His seat was 6 points more Conservative than the nation last time round (Lab would need a 7 point lead on UNS)
2) The draft boundary changes add a little bit more rural territory
3) His seat has been demographically trending away from Lab for some time
1992 L+26
1997 L+22
2001 L+17
2005 L+17
2010 L+11
2015 L+9
2017 L+2
2019 C+6
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Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.bigjohnowls said:So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs
I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.1 -
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?0 -
Unless and Until 54 letters arrive it's a job done well for Boris.Scott_xP said:That @BorisJohnson statement in the Commons, just finished, was a fatally flawed mix of contrition and defiance - Tory MPs in despair. "Utter train wreck," is how one normally loyal backbencher describes it.
https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/14882070787956613210 -
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.1 -
"16:43
Bereaved Tory MP: Does the PM think I'm a fool?
A emotional and direct question from Tory MP Aaron Bell now. He tells the PM how he attended his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - "a wonderful woman" who had served as a Tory councillor. "I didn't hug my siblings, I didn't hug my parents," he says. "I gave a eulogy and then afterwards I didn't even go to her house for a cup of tea." He then faced the three hour drive home. Bell asks Johnson: "Does the prime minister think I am a fool?" After gasps from MPs, Johnson says "no" and offers his sympathies, apologising for "misjudgements" in No 10."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-601479885 -
And that matters for his place in history/post PM career.Scott_xP said:
Can't remember who said it, but the big problem for BoZo is anyone who saw him today saw the real man behind the mask. His success to date has been based on hiding that behind the comic personaCarlottaVance said:Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.
https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA
He hoped to join the greats- the Churchills, the Thatchers. That was never really on.
He could have hoped to be the nation's eccentric uncle, and gone on the chat show/after dinner circuit. Gyles Brandreth with a more impressive political CV.
If the last thing we all remember of him is the snarling, hateful lashing out, that affects his value at stud.
Would you book him to do a jolly speech at a dinner you were organising?3 -
HYUFD said:
There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic AlternativeIanB2 said:
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.Scott_xP said:
A spineGardenwalker said:So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
Are Labour front bench canvassing for PAHYUFD said:
There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic AlternativeIanB2 said:
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.Scott_xP said:
A spineGardenwalker said:So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.0 -
I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or StarmerTheScreamingEagles said:
I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.Mexicanpete said:
France?TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.0 -
I'd be shocked in 54 MPs are brave enough to post a letter.moonshine said:
I suspect someone like Aaron Bell right now is not thinking too much about who replaces Johnson, but is just incandescent at being associated with him and wants him gone immediately.HYUFD said:
For Boris though Sunak is more of a danger to his premiership now and until the next general election than Starmer ismoonshine said:
A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.HYUFD said:
So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.Gary_Burton said:
Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.HYUFD said:
Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.TheScreamingEagles said:Redfield and Wilton.
Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):
Labour 40% (-1)
Conservative 33% (-1)
Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
Green 6% (+1)
Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
Reform UK 3% (–)
Other 2% (+1)
Changes +/- 24 Jan
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505
Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
Johnson and his lackeys have in my view made a strategic error in fighting the changing of the 1922 rules and outright denigrating their worth.
People like Bernard Jenkins would rather the changing of the guard happened in the summer and are not putting in their letter now. But if a vote is called, is he really prepared to risk Boris styling it out for another 12 months, falling back on the 1922 rules not being properly observed, which his outriders have already said have no legal status anyway?
Unlike May who eventually stepped aside when she knew she had lost the party’s confidence, Johnson has made it clear he will use every trick in the Trumpian playbook to keep his greasy fingers on the levers of power.
So are there 54 MPs in the Aaron Bell camp tonight? Will be interesting to see. I’d be shocked if there weren’t enough MPs who can see through the strategy.0 -
Sadly I think they need polls showing electoral ruin if they keep him. We must hope the public steps up and delivers.Gardenwalker said:So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?0 -
What I saw was a man who was realising his power was draining away. It must also be very demoralising for him not knowing how many letters there are. Should he be relaxed, or should he be shitting himself?eek said:
Unless and Until 54 letters arrive it's a job done well for Boris.Scott_xP said:That @BorisJohnson statement in the Commons, just finished, was a fatally flawed mix of contrition and defiance - Tory MPs in despair. "Utter train wreck," is how one normally loyal backbencher describes it.
https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/14882070787956613210 -
The statement from no 10 isn’t what it seems to be . The giveaway line . “ in light of what is found “ so Sue Gray will update her report but will have to take account of what the Met say so it will be a stitch up .1
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Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.1 -
Do like a good 'bait and switch' approach to an article.CarlottaVance said:In a bleak landscape, Britain stands out. We are bolstering our military presence in Estonia, sending arms to Ukraine and stiffening soggy European spines. Our defence secretary Ben Wallace excoriates the “skewed and selective” reasoning behind Vladimir Putin’s revanchism. The foreign secretary, Liz Truss, is promising new sanctions on Russian energy companies and oligarchs. The message is clear: Britain is the proud linchpin of the Atlantic alliance and the international security order.
Behind the bombast is another, uglier story, in which Britain stands out not for its mettle in resisting the Russian regime but for aiding and abetting it. Kremlin cronies have for years used London to launder their reputations and ill-gotten gains. An army of bankers, lawyers, accountants and fixers make their own smaller fortunes through this trade.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/35fce012-8210-11ec-a9c8-2dfad00a5965?shareToken=368e53aeb65a341612448f0da476c5170 -
Starmer did well - largely because he resisted the lawyer’s perennial temptation to skewer his prey on a point of detail and majored on the big picture.Northern_Al said:
Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.bigjohnowls said:So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs
I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
Whatever BJO’s view of centre-left v left-wing politics, I am struggling to see our Jeremy putting the clown under so much pressure today.2 -
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.0 -
Let's not forget that BJO supports Boris because of the NI rise. If Boris is deposed the NI rise gets cancelled and his free ride on the backs of working age people comes to an end.Northern_Al said:
Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.bigjohnowls said:So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs
I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.0 -
The chap's been around Southend politics for a bit, apparently.bigjohnowls said:HYUFD said:
There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic AlternativeIanB2 said:
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.Scott_xP said:
A spineGardenwalker said:So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
Are Labour front bench canvassing for PAHYUFD said:
There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic AlternativeIanB2 said:
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.Scott_xP said:
A spineGardenwalker said:So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.0 -
That ‘97 was worse for Labour than ‘92 is indeed remarkable.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I think Tissue Price should be favourite to hold N-U-L if he stands againCyclefree said:
He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.Scott_xP said:'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'
Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1
As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.
I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.
No wonder he looked thunderous.
1) His seat was 6 points more Conservative than the nation last time round (Lab would need a 7 point lead on UNS)
2) The draft boundary changes add a little bit more rural territory
3) His seat has been demographically trending away from Lab for some time
1992 L+26
1997 L+22
2001 L+17
2005 L+17
2010 L+11
2015 L+9
2017 L+2
2019 C+60 -
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius0 -
Yes.Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.0 -
IIRC I generally liked Tissue Price's posts. Well thought out and well balanced. He is the type of Tory that the Tory Party can be again, but only when they get rid of Big ClownAndy_JS said:"16:43
Bereaved Tory MP: Does the PM think I'm a fool?
A emotional and direct question from Tory MP Aaron Bell now. He tells the PM how he attended his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - "a wonderful woman" who had served as a Tory councillor. "I didn't hug my siblings, I didn't hug my parents," he says. "I gave a eulogy and then afterwards I didn't even go to her house for a cup of tea." He then faced the three hour drive home. Bell asks Johnson: "Does the prime minister think I am a fool?" After gasps from MPs, Johnson says "no" and offers his sympathies, apologising for "misjudgements" in No 10."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-601479882 -
It’s “Gray” not “grey” 😉Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.1 -
Their (the bits of Canada where Canadians live) winters are less dark, as a simple matter of geography.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.0 -
Yep. It’s v cold here in New York.HYUFD said:
It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.
In London it is 7 degrees celcius
But my kids loved sledding through Central Park yesterday and the sky is bright blue. It’s like being in the Alps.1 -
Lol-
Bozo top story on the CNN 60 -
The light in spring and autumn in NYC is indeed glorious.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.0 -
They don't know what is in it, according to Sky:IanB2 said:R4 reporting no.10 has now yielded to pressure and committing to publish whatever Gray reports after the Met have finished investigating
https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1488169949780656130?t=0tbZAl9ZVUaDOOcgaCHHYQ&s=190 -
Sunak backed the NI rise in the Sunday Times yesterday tooMaxPB said:
Let's not forget that BJO supports Boris because of the NI rise. If Boris is deposed the NI rise gets cancelled and his free ride on the backs of working age people comes to an end.Northern_Al said:
Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.bigjohnowls said:So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs
I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.0 -
One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.9 -
I'm hoping for the latest twist to be Priti Patel resigning, with a kick at the PM and the Met on the way out - as well as her former Cabinet colleagues.1
-
"Barbara from Stoke on Trent sent me this question......."IanB2 said:
Starmer did well - largely because he resisted the lawyer’s perennial temptation to skewer his prey on a point of detail and majored on the big picture.Northern_Al said:
Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.bigjohnowls said:So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs
I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
Whatever BJO’s view of centre-left v left-wing politics, I am struggling to see our Jeremy putting the clown under so much pressure today.3 -
Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.1
-
Joint bottom with Martin but not an expenses cheat , Bercow was streets ahead of Hoyle.CarlottaVance said:0 -
I was intrigued by Sunak’s nodding dog routine while Johnson was giving his address, in stark contrast to his facial expressions at recent PMQs.0
-
Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.4 -
Quebec is very French but also in CanadaHYUFD said:
I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or StarmerTheScreamingEagles said:
I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.Mexicanpete said:
France?TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
A blend of both
I was in a mixed international group visiting Quebec some years ago and the French restaurant we went to only accepted their orders in French, resulting in the Americans being thrown out and my gratitude to my o level French pass1 -
Sadly I don't think that is going to happen. She is likely to be demoted under a more sensible leaderCyclefree said:I'm hoping for the latest twist to be Priti Patel resigning, with a kick at the PM and the Met on the way out - as well as her former Cabinet colleagues.
0 -
I imagine that the police will issue fines, and some may be larger than others. But the public, most of whom have paid a fine at some point for parking or speeding or whatever, will not see that as very serious, and even if Johnson himself were to be asked pay, say, £100, I think he'd probably say "Fair enough, I accept the penalty and have paid it, now let's move on." The allegation of lying to the Commons will be regarded as more serious by traditionally-minded Conservative MPs, but I wonder how many of those there are.Richard_Tyndall said:
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?kinabalu said:
The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.BartholomewRoberts said:
Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.kinabalu said:
Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.kinabalu said:
No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.BartholomewRoberts said:
Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.kinabalu said:
That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.BartholomewRoberts said:
Far too early to say that.El_Capitano said:Starmer must be overjoyed.
Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.
If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.
If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.
Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.
This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?
Let's see.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.
I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”0 -
Bell again played in full on the main R4 evening news0
-
If it gets to VONC then I think the dam will burst and he will be toast. There is no love for him and today proved it. Whether the requisite number of letters is reached is the critical thing. I still think it is after May.Andy_JS said:
I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.TOPPING said:Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.
1 -
Yes, a horrible man. You can debate best and worst PMs but this is surely the lowest character to have held the office.Scott_xP said:
Can't remember who said it, but the big problem for BoZo is anyone who saw him today saw the real man behind the mask. His success to date has been based on hiding that behind the comic personaCarlottaVance said:Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.
https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA2 -
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?0 -
Probably pure coincidence, but I understand she met privately with Liz Truss, Michael Gove and Therese Coffey last week.Cyclefree said:I'm hoping for the latest twist to be Priti Patel resigning, with a kick at the PM and the Met on the way out - as well as her former Cabinet colleagues.
0 -
Just realised- what a mix of metaphors!Nigel_Foremain said:
If it gets to VONC then I think the dam will burst and he will be toast. There is no love for him and today proved it. Whether the requisite number of letters is reached is the critical thing. I still think it is after May.Andy_JS said:
I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.TOPPING said:Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.
3 -
Secret ballot. If there's a VONC he's done. That's why No 10 is spinning so hard to prevent one. Today's brexit freedom bill was another attempt to shore up MP support to stop letters being sent in after today's report.Andy_JS said:
I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.TOPPING said:Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.
1 -
It's relative swing not absolute. N-U-L swung to Lab in 97 but by less than the country as a whole so had a relative swing to the ConsIanB2 said:
That ‘97 was worse for Labour than ‘92 is indeed remarkable.GarethoftheVale2 said:
I think Tissue Price should be favourite to hold N-U-L if he stands againCyclefree said:
He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.Scott_xP said:'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'
Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1
As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.
I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.
No wonder he looked thunderous.
1) His seat was 6 points more Conservative than the nation last time round (Lab would need a 7 point lead on UNS)
2) The draft boundary changes add a little bit more rural territory
3) His seat has been demographically trending away from Lab for some time
1992 L+26
1997 L+22
2001 L+17
2005 L+17
2010 L+11
2015 L+9
2017 L+2
2019 C+60 -
About Palestine...Nigel_Foremain said:
"Barbara from Stoke on Trent sent me this question......."IanB2 said:
Starmer did well - largely because he resisted the lawyer’s perennial temptation to skewer his prey on a point of detail and majored on the big picture.Northern_Al said:
Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.bigjohnowls said:So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs
I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
Whatever BJO’s view of centre-left v left-wing politics, I am struggling to see our Jeremy putting the clown under so much pressure today.4 -
Aaron Bell’s clip on BBC 6pm news0
-
Green Cabin on Galle Road. The buffet at Mount Lavinia. Kothu Roti pretty much anywhere...murali_s said:
I may be biased but Sri Lanka is amazing for food. Shame about the politicians (corruption, war criminals etc. etc.)Leon said:
Superb food everywhere! I just this minute finished one of the best Goan prawn curries of my lifemurali_s said:
By the way, how was Sri Lanka this time? Hope you managed to get some decent food this time...Leon said:
We must agree to differ. For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majoritymurali_s said:
The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.Leon said:
I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the pollskle4 said:
Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.Leon said:Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea
I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.
It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.
I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.
Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque
We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
Has he squandered all that with his idiotic lies and silly marriage and hie venal inability to focus? Yes, that too
So now it is time for him to go as he has been revealed as a lying twat good for not much more than winning campaigns (which he does brilliantly) and telling decent jokes. Off you toddle, now, Boris
But will he? All my points today have been practical not ideological. I can see him surviving, quite easily. Indeed I can see him winning another, slender majority in 2024. His mortal enemy is not partygate, not any more, it is tax and inflation
I must have been incredibly unlucky on my last trip Too many posh places and then too many unlucky choices on the street
The food this time has been outstanding. Last night I had s Sri Lankan mud crab curry with this hybrid Med/Asian seafood broth to start
OMFFFFG. Cost £11. In an ultra high end place
I’ve also eaten off the street, very well, for literal pennies: all good, some sensational. I am a convert!
Hopefully you have frequented Paradise Road (Gallery Cafe), Ministry of Crab, Barefoot Cafe (boho/hippy kind of place), Noodles in Cinnamon Grand and the Chinese at Cinnamon Lakeside and many many more...
Sri Lankan food is the best.0 -
All those crime serials don’t exactly leave the viewer pining for a Swedish winter.Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
1 -
Correction - Javid as well.JBriskin3 said:
And was the only one on the front bench wearing a mask - Peacocking?moonshine said:I was intrigued by Sunak’s nodding dog routine while Johnson was giving his address, in stark contrast to his facial expressions at recent PMQs.
Looks like they were prepared for the CNN 6 thing...0 -
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?1 -
Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.Gardenwalker said:
Yes.Andy_JS said:
When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.Gardenwalker said:
Toronto has brighter winters than London.HYUFD said:
If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada'sApplicant said:
Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.0 -
I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).eek said:
Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.0 -
Yes I 100% agree.Richard_Tyndall said:
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?kinabalu said:
The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.BartholomewRoberts said:
Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.kinabalu said:
Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.kinabalu said:
No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.BartholomewRoberts said:
Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.kinabalu said:
That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.BartholomewRoberts said:
Far too early to say that.El_Capitano said:Starmer must be overjoyed.
Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.
If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.
If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.
Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.
This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?
Let's see.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.
I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
However my point is that what it's alleged he'd lied about would be a resigning offence even if he'd never lied about it. So the lie itself is both bad and moot he'd need to go even without the lie.
If he knew about lawbreaking in his office and did nothing about it then he'd have to resign, even if he'd never said he didn't know about the law breaking.
It's not like lawmakers being lawbreakers is perfectly fine so long as they don't deny lawbreaking.1 -
Surely all you have to do is read out what it says on the menu followed by s'il vous plait? Surely even an American can do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Quebec is very French but also in CanadaHYUFD said:
I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or StarmerTheScreamingEagles said:
I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.Mexicanpete said:
France?TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
A blend of both
I was in a mixed international group visiting Quebec some years ago and the French restaurant we went to only accepted their orders in French, resulting in the Americans being thrown out and my gratitude to my o level French pass0 -
One of the commentators said that it's thought if they get the 54 letters he will more than likely lose the voteNigel_Foremain said:
One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essentialFarooq said:Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?
That was FORTY SIX days ago.
The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.0 -
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 19221 -
And ignorance of the law is no defence.BartholomewRoberts said:
Yes I 100% agree.Richard_Tyndall said:
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?kinabalu said:
The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.BartholomewRoberts said:
Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.kinabalu said:
Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.BartholomewRoberts said:
If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.kinabalu said:
No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.BartholomewRoberts said:
Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.kinabalu said:
That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.BartholomewRoberts said:
Far too early to say that.El_Capitano said:Starmer must be overjoyed.
Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.
If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.
If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.
Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.
This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?
Let's see.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.
I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
However my point is that what it's alleged he'd lied about would be a resigning offence even if he'd never lied about it. So the lie itself is both bad and moot he'd need to go even without the lie.
If he knew about lawbreaking in his office and did nothing about it then he'd have to resign, even if he'd never said he didn't know about the law breaking.
It's not like lawmakers being lawbreakers is perfectly fine so long as they don't deny lawbreaking.1 -
A bit rich from the PM seeing as Saville was a staunch Tory supporter.eek said:0 -
But unless he resigned in a rage as soon as the VONC went against him, Boris is there until April if the leadership election went to a members vote.TOPPING said:Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.
0 -
Yes, and it would have been even better to have gone on Ukraine last week to get some quotes from the PM to quote on Wednesday.eek said:
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?0 -
That is my view, because he really is not liked by the parliamentary party.Roger said:
One of the commentators said that it's thought if they get the 54 letters he will more than likely lose the voteNigel_Foremain said:
One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essentialFarooq said:Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?
That was FORTY SIX days ago.
The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.1 -
..
Maybe the BBC doesn't want to repeat a defamatory remark, even though Johnson making it is newsworthy.tlg86 said:
I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).eek said:
Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.0 -
-
The one way to get the Tories to hold off is to get Labour to start playing games, Boris was saved last time by an ill timed defection.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 19223 -
Not on this occasionOnlyLivingBoy said:
Surely all you have to do is read out what it says on the menu followed by s'il vous plait? Surely even an American can do that?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Quebec is very French but also in CanadaHYUFD said:
I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or StarmerTheScreamingEagles said:
I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.Mexicanpete said:
France?TheScreamingEagles said:
Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.Gardenwalker said:
Take my advice.TheScreamingEagles said:Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
Emigrate.
I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
A blend of both
I was in a mixed international group visiting Quebec some years ago and the French restaurant we went to only accepted their orders in French, resulting in the Americans being thrown out and my gratitude to my o level French pass0 -
You can quote what's said in parliament, provided you quote it rightFF43 said:..
Maybe the BBC doesn't want to repeat a defamatory remark, even though Johnson making it is newsworthy.tlg86 said:
I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).eek said:
Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.
0 -
Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:OldKingCole said:
Someone else posted that, too. Why?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
PutinOldKingCole said:Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.1 -
As I've said before I think it is now a win-win for Labour. If he goes, they defeated the PM. If he stays they know they have Big Clown there doing his damage to the Tory brand. I think on balance they'd like him to resign though.MaxPB said:
The one way to get the Tories to hold off is to get Labour to start playing games, Boris was saved last time by an ill timed defection.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.rpjs said:
There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will not vote for a GEIanB2 said:Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 19220 -
At the moment which Nato leader is doing most to stand up to Putin? Not the EU President, Macron, Scholz or Biden but Boris, PM of post Brexit Britain.Mango said:
Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.SeaShantyIrish2 said:
Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:OldKingCole said:
Someone else posted that, too. Why?SeaShantyIrish2 said:
PutinOldKingCole said:Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.
Under Boris post Brexit Britain also has agreed a defence alliance with Biden's US and Morrison's Australia to contain Xi's China0 -
Don't rule him out of actually being in Ukraine on Wednesdayeek said:
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
Stranger things have happened0 -
In a Tank - Thatcher Style?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Don't rule him out of actually being in Ukraine on Wednesdayeek said:
PMQs on WednesdayMaxPB said:One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.
I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.
Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?
Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
Stranger things have happened
Desperate times...0 -
Parliamentary privilege applies, surely?FF43 said:..
Maybe the BBC doesn't want to repeat a defamatory remark, even though Johnson making it is newsworthy.tlg86 said:
I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).eek said:
Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.0 -
Do you think @Tissue_Price would write a thread if you asked him?MikeSmithson said:Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.
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And the flagship Tory PM was a staunch Savile supporter!OnlyLivingBoy said:
A bit rich from the PM seeing as Saville was a staunch Tory supporter.eek said:0
