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The first findings from the Grey report don’t look good for Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,124
    Full Sue Gray report WILL be published.

    No 10: "But, at the end of the process, the Prime Minister will ask Sue Gray to update her work in light of what is found. He will publish that update."

    Was obvious that the line on that wasn't going to hold

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1488207605034008577
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,748
    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Rotherham next week at this rate!
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea

    I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.

    It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.

    I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.

    Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.

    Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
    I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the polls

    I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque

    We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
    The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.
    We must agree to differ. For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majority

    Has he squandered all that with his idiotic lies and silly marriage and hie venal inability to focus? Yes, that too

    So now it is time for him to go as he has been revealed as a lying twat good for not much more than winning campaigns (which he does brilliantly) and telling decent jokes. Off you toddle, now, Boris

    But will he? All my points today have been practical not ideological. I can see him surviving, quite easily. Indeed I can see him winning another, slender majority in 2024. His mortal enemy is not partygate, not any more, it is tax and inflation
    By the way, how was Sri Lanka this time? Hope you managed to get some decent food this time...
    Superb food everywhere! I just this minute finished one of the best Goan prawn curries of my life

    I must have been incredibly unlucky on my last trip Too many posh places and then too many unlucky choices on the street

    The food this time has been outstanding. Last night I had s Sri Lankan mud crab curry with this hybrid Med/Asian seafood broth to start

    OMFFFFG. Cost £11. In an ultra high end place

    I’ve also eaten off the street, very well, for literal pennies: all good, some sensational. I am a convert!
    I may be biased but Sri Lanka is amazing for food. Shame about the politicians (corruption, war criminals etc. etc.)

    Hopefully you have frequented Paradise Road (Gallery Cafe), Ministry of Crab, Barefoot Cafe (boho/hippy kind of place), Noodles in Cinnamon Grand and the Chinese at Cinnamon Lakeside and many many more...

  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,780
    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    It would be a politically very powerful manoeuvre by Starmer. Because I think you are right, if the timing is right it could lead to double figures of Tory MPs walking out the party to vote against him.
  • LOL


  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,748
    Number 10 commits to publishing the full Sue Gray report - BBC News
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,545

    Farooq said:

    Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?

    That was FORTY SIX days ago.

    The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.

    One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essential
    Brady's never revealed who sent him letters about Theresa May & he doesn't strike me as the type to leak to Boris.
    I'd probably hand him a paper copy if I was a Tory MP though, you never know if No 10 has a blind cc on Brady's e-mails...
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    I never thought I would say this but I agree with everything Ian Blackford has just said on Sky just now

    As a conservative for near 60 years of my life, apart from 1997 and 2001, I am in despair that conservative mps cannot just do the right thing and remove Boris

    The only answer can be surely, given human beings (even conservative MP ones) are rational, that the public outside the cities care less about parties than they do about being able to heat themselves and pay their bills over the next 18 months.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    edited January 2022

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    France?
    I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.

    I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
    The thing is, it’s heartbreaking to watch a country you love plumb new depths. It’s like watching a family member develop a drug addiction, or become a QAnon conspiracy theorist.

    I feel much happier now that I’ve left.

    I’m under no illusions about the USA, but I don’t have any familial attachment to it. Trump etc offends me on an intellectual level, but not on an emotional one.
  • murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea

    I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.

    It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.

    I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.

    Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.

    Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
    I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the polls

    I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque

    We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
    The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.
    We must agree to differ. For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majority

    Has he squandered all that with his idiotic lies and silly marriage and hie venal inability to focus? Yes, that too

    So now it is time for him to go as he has been revealed as a lying twat good for not much more than winning campaigns (which he does brilliantly) and telling decent jokes. Off you toddle, now, Boris

    But will he? All my points today have been practical not ideological. I can see him surviving, quite easily. Indeed I can see him winning another, slender majority in 2024. His mortal enemy is not partygate, not any more, it is tax and inflation
    By the way, how was Sri Lanka this time? Hope you managed to get some decent food this time...
    Superb food everywhere! I just this minute finished one of the best Goan prawn curries of my life

    I must have been incredibly unlucky on my last trip Too many posh places and then too many unlucky choices on the street

    The food this time has been outstanding. Last night I had s Sri Lankan mud crab curry with this hybrid Med/Asian seafood broth to start

    OMFFFFG. Cost £11. In an ultra high end place

    I’ve also eaten off the street, very well, for literal pennies: all good, some sensational. I am a convert!
    I may be biased but Sri Lanka is amazing for food. Shame about the politicians (corruption, war criminals etc. etc.)


    I was going to make some comment asking whether you were referring to Sri Lanka or the UK. But I do realise that given Sri Lanka's recent history it is a problem of another order over there.
  • Farooq said:

    Farooq said:

    Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?

    That was FORTY SIX days ago.

    The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.

    One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essential
    I wonder at what point they think it's "essential".
    I'll be honest, I'm sorta done with the Kremlinology of why they are useless (blackmail! self interest! stupidity!). It's enough to know that they are collectively a waste of space.
    It is easy to mock. How many people do you know who will put their jobs and their career on the line on a point of principle? And in the knowledge that colleagues might just turn around and say "that's brave" and let you have your head shot off above the proverbial parapet?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.

    In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
    There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic Alternative
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241
    R4 reporting no.10 has now yielded to pressure and committing to publish whatever Gray reports after the Met have finished investigating
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    A parliamentary confidence vote is in the government, not the PM. It also has FTPA implications.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,046
    Mr. Eagles, I would say stay.

    Every country has high and low points. This is not a great time. But things will improve.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,833
    Andy_JS said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.

    In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
    Well that was because it was regarded as a bit distasteful to stand in this particular by-election.
    Another UKIP MP on the horizon?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,538
    edited January 2022

    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.

    Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.

    His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'

    Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1

    He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.

    As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.

    I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.

    No wonder he looked thunderous.
    I think Tissue Price should be favourite to hold N-U-L if he stands again

    1) His seat was 6 points more Conservative than the nation last time round (Lab would need a 7 point lead on UNS)
    2) The draft boundary changes add a little bit more rural territory
    3) His seat has been demographically trending away from Lab for some time

    1992 L+26
    1997 L+22
    2001 L+17
    2005 L+17
    2010 L+11
    2015 L+9
    2017 L+2
    2019 C+6
  • IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712
    Scott_xP said:

    That @BorisJohnson statement in the Commons, just finished, was a fatally flawed mix of contrition and defiance - Tory MPs in despair. "Utter train wreck," is how one normally loyal backbencher describes it.
    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1488207078795661321

    Unless and Until 54 letters arrive it's a job done well for Boris.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,605
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.

    https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA

    Can't remember who said it, but the big problem for BoZo is anyone who saw him today saw the real man behind the mask. His success to date has been based on hiding that behind the comic persona
    And that matters for his place in history/post PM career.

    He hoped to join the greats- the Churchills, the Thatchers. That was never really on.

    He could have hoped to be the nation's eccentric uncle, and gone on the chat show/after dinner circuit. Gyles Brandreth with a more impressive political CV.

    If the last thing we all remember of him is the snarling, hateful lashing out, that affects his value at stud.

    Would you book him to do a jolly speech at a dinner you were organising?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,748
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.

    In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
    There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic Alternative
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.

    In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
    There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic Alternative
    Are Labour front bench canvassing for PA
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    France?
    I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.

    I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
    I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or Starmer
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
    So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.

    Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
    A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.
    For Boris though Sunak is more of a danger to his premiership now and until the next general election than Starmer is
    I suspect someone like Aaron Bell right now is not thinking too much about who replaces Johnson, but is just incandescent at being associated with him and wants him gone immediately.

    Johnson and his lackeys have in my view made a strategic error in fighting the changing of the 1922 rules and outright denigrating their worth.

    People like Bernard Jenkins would rather the changing of the guard happened in the summer and are not putting in their letter now. But if a vote is called, is he really prepared to risk Boris styling it out for another 12 months, falling back on the 1922 rules not being properly observed, which his outriders have already said have no legal status anyway?

    Unlike May who eventually stepped aside when she knew she had lost the party’s confidence, Johnson has made it clear he will use every trick in the Trumpian playbook to keep his greasy fingers on the levers of power.

    So are there 54 MPs in the Aaron Bell camp tonight? Will be interesting to see. I’d be shocked if there weren’t enough MPs who can see through the strategy.
    I'd be shocked in 54 MPs are brave enough to post a letter.
  • eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    That @BorisJohnson statement in the Commons, just finished, was a fatally flawed mix of contrition and defiance - Tory MPs in despair. "Utter train wreck," is how one normally loyal backbencher describes it.
    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1488207078795661321

    Unless and Until 54 letters arrive it's a job done well for Boris.
    What I saw was a man who was realising his power was draining away. It must also be very demoralising for him not knowing how many letters there are. Should he be relaxed, or should he be shitting himself?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,022

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    Sadly I think they need polls showing electoral ruin if they keep him. We must hope the public steps up and delivers.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    The statement from no 10 isn’t what it seems to be . The giveaway line . “ in light of what is found “ so Sue Gray will update her report but will have to take account of what the Met say so it will be a stitch up .
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
  • In a bleak landscape, Britain stands out. We are bolstering our military presence in Estonia, sending arms to Ukraine and stiffening soggy European spines. Our defence secretary Ben Wallace excoriates the “skewed and selective” reasoning behind Vladimir Putin’s revanchism. The foreign secretary, Liz Truss, is promising new sanctions on Russian energy companies and oligarchs. The message is clear: Britain is the proud linchpin of the Atlantic alliance and the international security order.

    Behind the bombast is another, uglier story, in which Britain stands out not for its mettle in resisting the Russian regime but for aiding and abetting it. Kremlin cronies have for years used London to launder their reputations and ill-gotten gains. An army of bankers, lawyers, accountants and fixers make their own smaller fortunes through this trade.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/35fce012-8210-11ec-a9c8-2dfad00a5965?shareToken=368e53aeb65a341612448f0da476c517

    Do like a good 'bait and switch' approach to an article.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241

    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.

    Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.

    His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
    Starmer did well - largely because he resisted the lawyer’s perennial temptation to skewer his prey on a point of detail and majored on the big picture.

    Whatever BJO’s view of centre-left v left-wing politics, I am struggling to see our Jeremy putting the clown under so much pressure today.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,060

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,282

    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.

    Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.

    His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
    Let's not forget that BJO supports Boris because of the NI rise. If Boris is deposed the NI rise gets cancelled and his free ride on the backs of working age people comes to an end.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,833
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.

    In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
    There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic Alternative
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.

    In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
    There is a left leaning party starting in Southend West, the pro cannabis legalisation Psychedelic Alternative
    Are Labour front bench canvassing for PA
    The chap's been around Southend politics for a bit, apparently.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'

    Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1

    He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.

    As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.

    I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.

    No wonder he looked thunderous.
    I think Tissue Price should be favourite to hold N-U-L if he stands again

    1) His seat was 6 points more Conservative than the nation last time round (Lab would need a 7 point lead on UNS)
    2) The draft boundary changes add a little bit more rural territory
    3) His seat has been demographically trending away from Lab for some time

    1992 L+26
    1997 L+22
    2001 L+17
    2005 L+17
    2010 L+11
    2015 L+9
    2017 L+2
    2019 C+6
    That ‘97 was worse for Labour than ‘92 is indeed remarkable.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.
    Yes.

    I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
    And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.

    Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.

    In London it is 7 degrees celcius
  • Andy_JS said:

    "16:43
    Bereaved Tory MP: Does the PM think I'm a fool?

    A emotional and direct question from Tory MP Aaron Bell now. He tells the PM how he attended his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - "a wonderful woman" who had served as a Tory councillor. "I didn't hug my siblings, I didn't hug my parents," he says. "I gave a eulogy and then afterwards I didn't even go to her house for a cup of tea." He then faced the three hour drive home. Bell asks Johnson: "Does the prime minister think I am a fool?" After gasps from MPs, Johnson says "no" and offers his sympathies, apologising for "misjudgements" in No 10."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-60147988

    IIRC I generally liked Tissue Price's posts. Well thought out and well balanced. He is the type of Tory that the Tory Party can be again, but only when they get rid of Big Clown
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,615
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.
    It’s “Gray” not “grey” 😉
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Their (the bits of Canada where Canadians live) winters are less dark, as a simple matter of geography.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.

    Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.

    In London it is 7 degrees celcius
    Yep. It’s v cold here in New York.

    But my kids loved sledding through Central Park yesterday and the sky is bright blue. It’s like being in the Alps.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Lol-

    Bozo top story on the CNN 6
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    The light in spring and autumn in NYC is indeed glorious.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,442
    IanB2 said:

    R4 reporting no.10 has now yielded to pressure and committing to publish whatever Gray reports after the Met have finished investigating

    They don't know what is in it, according to Sky:

    https://twitter.com/ukiswitheu/status/1488169949780656130?t=0tbZAl9ZVUaDOOcgaCHHYQ&s=19
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    MaxPB said:

    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.

    Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.

    His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
    Let's not forget that BJO supports Boris because of the NI rise. If Boris is deposed the NI rise gets cancelled and his free ride on the backs of working age people comes to an end.
    Sunak backed the NI rise in the Sunday Times yesterday too
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,453
    I'm hoping for the latest twist to be Priti Patel resigning, with a kick at the PM and the Met on the way out - as well as her former Cabinet colleagues.
  • IanB2 said:

    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.

    Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.

    His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
    Starmer did well - largely because he resisted the lawyer’s perennial temptation to skewer his prey on a point of detail and majored on the big picture.

    Whatever BJO’s view of centre-left v left-wing politics, I am struggling to see our Jeremy putting the clown under so much pressure today.
    "Barbara from Stoke on Trent sent me this question......."
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,087
    edited January 2022
    Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639

    malcolmg said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Hoyle is the worst speaker in history , a weak lickspittle.
    No - Michael Martin (expenses) and Bercow (it's all about Bercow) were worse.
    Joint bottom with Martin but not an expenses cheat , Bercow was streets ahead of Hoyle.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,780
    I was intrigued by Sunak’s nodding dog routine while Johnson was giving his address, in stark contrast to his facial expressions at recent PMQs.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,506
    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.
    Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
  • HYUFD said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    France?
    I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.

    I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
    I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or Starmer
    Quebec is very French but also in Canada

    A blend of both

    I was in a mixed international group visiting Quebec some years ago and the French restaurant we went to only accepted their orders in French, resulting in the Americans being thrown out and my gratitude to my o level French pass
  • Cyclefree said:

    I'm hoping for the latest twist to be Priti Patel resigning, with a kick at the PM and the Met on the way out - as well as her former Cabinet colleagues.

    Sadly I don't think that is going to happen. She is likely to be demoted under a more sensible leader
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,060
    TOPPING said:

    Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.

    I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,780
    Cyclefree said:

    I'm hoping for the latest twist to be Priti Patel resigning, with a kick at the PM and the Met on the way out - as well as her former Cabinet colleagues.

    That is probably her best chance at the top job.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    moonshine said:

    I was intrigued by Sunak’s nodding dog routine while Johnson was giving his address, in stark contrast to his facial expressions at recent PMQs.

    And was the only one on the front bench wearing a mask - Peacocking?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer must be overjoyed.

    Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.

    Far too early to say that.

    If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.

    If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.

    Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
    That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.
    Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.

    Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.

    This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
    No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.

    He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?

    Let's see.
    If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.

    Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
    Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.
    Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.

    If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.

    I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
    The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.
    If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?

    Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
    Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.

    “It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
    I imagine that the police will issue fines, and some may be larger than others. But the public, most of whom have paid a fine at some point for parking or speeding or whatever, will not see that as very serious, and even if Johnson himself were to be asked pay, say, £100, I think he'd probably say "Fair enough, I accept the penalty and have paid it, now let's move on." The allegation of lying to the Commons will be regarded as more serious by traditionally-minded Conservative MPs, but I wonder how many of those there are.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241
    Bell again played in full on the main R4 evening news
  • Andy_JS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.

    I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.
    If it gets to VONC then I think the dam will burst and he will be toast. There is no love for him and today proved it. Whether the requisite number of letters is reached is the critical thing. I still think it is after May.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,242
    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,022
    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.

    https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA

    Can't remember who said it, but the big problem for BoZo is anyone who saw him today saw the real man behind the mask. His success to date has been based on hiding that behind the comic persona
    Yes, a horrible man. You can debate best and worst PMs but this is surely the lowest character to have held the office.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
  • Cyclefree said:

    I'm hoping for the latest twist to be Priti Patel resigning, with a kick at the PM and the Met on the way out - as well as her former Cabinet colleagues.

    Probably pure coincidence, but I understand she met privately with Liz Truss, Michael Gove and Therese Coffey last week.
  • Andy_JS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.

    I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.
    If it gets to VONC then I think the dam will burst and he will be toast. There is no love for him and today proved it. Whether the requisite number of letters is reached is the critical thing. I still think it is after May.
    Just realised- what a mix of metaphors!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,282
    Andy_JS said:

    TOPPING said:

    Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.

    I think he'll survive the first confidence vote whenever it is.
    Secret ballot. If there's a VONC he's done. That's why No 10 is spinning so hard to prevent one. Today's brexit freedom bill was another attempt to shore up MP support to stop letters being sent in after today's report.
  • IanB2 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:

    'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'

    Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1

    He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.

    As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.

    I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.

    No wonder he looked thunderous.
    I think Tissue Price should be favourite to hold N-U-L if he stands again

    1) His seat was 6 points more Conservative than the nation last time round (Lab would need a 7 point lead on UNS)
    2) The draft boundary changes add a little bit more rural territory
    3) His seat has been demographically trending away from Lab for some time

    1992 L+26
    1997 L+22
    2001 L+17
    2005 L+17
    2010 L+11
    2015 L+9
    2017 L+2
    2019 C+6
    That ‘97 was worse for Labour than ‘92 is indeed remarkable.
    It's relative swing not absolute. N-U-L swung to Lab in 97 but by less than the country as a whole so had a relative swing to the Cons
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,442

    IanB2 said:

    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.

    Do you never get bored with moaning about SKS? I find it hard to stay awake with your constant gripes.

    His evisceration of Boris this afternoon was actually pretty electrifying; I've rarely seen such a good character assassination. It wasn't forensic - it was just a massacre.
    Starmer did well - largely because he resisted the lawyer’s perennial temptation to skewer his prey on a point of detail and majored on the big picture.

    Whatever BJO’s view of centre-left v left-wing politics, I am struggling to see our Jeremy putting the clown under so much pressure today.
    "Barbara from Stoke on Trent sent me this question......."
    About Palestine...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Aaron Bell’s clip on BBC 6pm news
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Strange that given where Jimmy Saville got most his TV work from.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,946
    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea

    I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.

    It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.

    I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.

    Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.

    Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
    I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the polls

    I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque

    We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
    The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.
    We must agree to differ. For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majority

    Has he squandered all that with his idiotic lies and silly marriage and hie venal inability to focus? Yes, that too

    So now it is time for him to go as he has been revealed as a lying twat good for not much more than winning campaigns (which he does brilliantly) and telling decent jokes. Off you toddle, now, Boris

    But will he? All my points today have been practical not ideological. I can see him surviving, quite easily. Indeed I can see him winning another, slender majority in 2024. His mortal enemy is not partygate, not any more, it is tax and inflation
    By the way, how was Sri Lanka this time? Hope you managed to get some decent food this time...
    Superb food everywhere! I just this minute finished one of the best Goan prawn curries of my life

    I must have been incredibly unlucky on my last trip Too many posh places and then too many unlucky choices on the street

    The food this time has been outstanding. Last night I had s Sri Lankan mud crab curry with this hybrid Med/Asian seafood broth to start

    OMFFFFG. Cost £11. In an ultra high end place

    I’ve also eaten off the street, very well, for literal pennies: all good, some sensational. I am a convert!
    I may be biased but Sri Lanka is amazing for food. Shame about the politicians (corruption, war criminals etc. etc.)

    Hopefully you have frequented Paradise Road (Gallery Cafe), Ministry of Crab, Barefoot Cafe (boho/hippy kind of place), Noodles in Cinnamon Grand and the Chinese at Cinnamon Lakeside and many many more...

    Green Cabin on Galle Road. The buffet at Mount Lavinia. Kothu Roti pretty much anywhere...
    Sri Lankan food is the best.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.
    All those crime serials don’t exactly leave the viewer pining for a Swedish winter.

  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    JBriskin3 said:

    moonshine said:

    I was intrigued by Sunak’s nodding dog routine while Johnson was giving his address, in stark contrast to his facial expressions at recent PMQs.

    And was the only one on the front bench wearing a mask - Peacocking?
    Correction - Javid as well.

    Looks like they were prepared for the CNN 6 thing...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712
    MaxPB said:

    One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.

    I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.

    PMQs on Wednesday

    Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?

    Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.
    Yes.

    I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
    And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
    Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,242
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Strange that given where Jimmy Saville got most his TV work from.
    I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).

    Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer must be overjoyed.

    Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.

    Far too early to say that.

    If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.

    If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.

    Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
    That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.
    Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.

    Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.

    This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
    No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.

    He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?

    Let's see.
    If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.

    Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
    Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.
    Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.

    If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.

    I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
    The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.
    If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?

    Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
    Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.

    “It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
    Yes I 100% agree.

    However my point is that what it's alleged he'd lied about would be a resigning offence even if he'd never lied about it. So the lie itself is both bad and moot he'd need to go even without the lie.

    If he knew about lawbreaking in his office and did nothing about it then he'd have to resign, even if he'd never said he didn't know about the law breaking.

    It's not like lawmakers being lawbreakers is perfectly fine so long as they don't deny lawbreaking.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,946

    HYUFD said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    France?
    I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.

    I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
    I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or Starmer
    Quebec is very French but also in Canada

    A blend of both

    I was in a mixed international group visiting Quebec some years ago and the French restaurant we went to only accepted their orders in French, resulting in the Americans being thrown out and my gratitude to my o level French pass
    Surely all you have to do is read out what it says on the menu followed by s'il vous plait? Surely even an American can do that?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    TOPPING said:

    Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.

    Hopefully a winning bet
  • rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045

    Farooq said:

    Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?

    That was FORTY SIX days ago.

    The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.

    One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essential
    One of the commentators said that it's thought if they get the 54 letters he will more than likely lose the vote
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer must be overjoyed.

    Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.

    Far too early to say that.

    If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.

    If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.

    Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
    That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.
    Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.

    Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.

    This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
    No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.

    He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?

    Let's see.
    If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.

    Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
    Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.
    Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.

    If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.

    I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
    The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.
    If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?

    Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
    Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.

    “It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
    Yes I 100% agree.

    However my point is that what it's alleged he'd lied about would be a resigning offence even if he'd never lied about it. So the lie itself is both bad and moot he'd need to go even without the lie.

    If he knew about lawbreaking in his office and did nothing about it then he'd have to resign, even if he'd never said he didn't know about the law breaking.

    It's not like lawmakers being lawbreakers is perfectly fine so long as they don't deny lawbreaking.
    And ignorance of the law is no defence.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,946
    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Strange that given where Jimmy Saville got most his TV work from.
    A bit rich from the PM seeing as Saville was a staunch Tory supporter.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712
    TOPPING said:

    Just put a cheeky few quid on Boris to go Jan-Mar 22. When it happens it will happen quickly. We are on the brink I think. It's either now or 2024.

    But unless he resigned in a rage as soon as the VONC went against him, Boris is there until April if the leadership election went to a members vote.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,242
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.

    I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.

    PMQs on Wednesday

    Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?

    Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
    Yes, and it would have been even better to have gone on Ukraine last week to get some quotes from the PM to quote on Wednesday.
  • Roger said:

    Farooq said:

    Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?

    That was FORTY SIX days ago.

    The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.

    One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essential
    One of the commentators said that it's thought if they get the 54 letters he will more than likely lose the vote
    That is my view, because he really is not liked by the parliamentary party.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,339
    ..
    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Strange that given where Jimmy Saville got most his TV work from.
    I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).

    Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.
    Maybe the BBC doesn't want to repeat a defamatory remark, even though Johnson making it is newsworthy.
  • tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Makes sense. Never showed Savile on the TOTP repeats either.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,282

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    The one way to get the Tories to hold off is to get Labour to start playing games, Boris was saved last time by an ill timed defection.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    FF43 said:

    ..

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Strange that given where Jimmy Saville got most his TV work from.
    I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).

    Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.
    Maybe the BBC doesn't want to repeat a defamatory remark, even though Johnson making it is newsworthy.
    You can quote what's said in parliament, provided you quote it right
  • HYUFD said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    France?
    I speak French, good location, the French have excellent food, and plus, I can taunt French people in person.

    I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
    I am sure you would find Macron very much to your taste, far more so than Boris or Starmer
    Quebec is very French but also in Canada

    A blend of both

    I was in a mixed international group visiting Quebec some years ago and the French restaurant we went to only accepted their orders in French, resulting in the Americans being thrown out and my gratitude to my o level French pass
    Surely all you have to do is read out what it says on the menu followed by s'il vous plait? Surely even an American can do that?
    Not on this occasion
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
    Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:

    1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda

    2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
    Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.

    And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.
  • MaxPB said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    The one way to get the Tories to hold off is to get Labour to start playing games, Boris was saved last time by an ill timed defection.
    As I've said before I think it is now a win-win for Labour. If he goes, they defeated the PM. If he stays they know they have Big Clown there doing his damage to the Tory brand. I think on balance they'd like him to resign though.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    edited January 2022
    Mango said:

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
    Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:

    1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda

    2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
    Careful, you're in danger of reminding the Brexit supporters on here that they voted to give Putin (and Xi) his biggest foreign policy win.

    And they don't like being reminded of that. Well, at least the decent ones.
    At the moment which Nato leader is doing most to stand up to Putin? Not the EU President, Macron, Scholz or Biden but Boris, PM of post Brexit Britain.

    Under Boris post Brexit Britain also has agreed a defence alliance with Biden's US and Morrison's Australia to contain Xi's China
  • eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.

    I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.

    PMQs on Wednesday

    Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?

    Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
    Don't rule him out of actually being in Ukraine on Wednesday

    Stranger things have happened
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    One thing that sticks out to me in Boris' response to Aaron Bell was that he used the word "may" in relation to events that we know occurred in No 10 and the Cabinet Office that he presided over. He still hasn't admitted that he was wrong.

    I really, really hope that Tory MPs grow a fucking spine and get rid of this fool before he does more damage to the country. The UK PM being unable to get a direct line to Putin at a time when Russia are gearing up for war because he's having to defend his own personal failures damages the credibility of the country.

    PMQs on Wednesday

    Has the PM been able to speak to Putin about the Ukraine?

    Why was he unable to make the scheduled phone call?
    Don't rule him out of actually being in Ukraine on Wednesday

    Stranger things have happened
    In a Tank - Thatcher Style?

    Desperate times...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,242
    FF43 said:

    ..

    tlg86 said:

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Strange that given where Jimmy Saville got most his TV work from.
    I think it’s more that they are very cautious about these things. I think they should show it to show people what kind of person the PM is. But they probably think that they don’t want to do that and potentially it does what Johnson wants (distraction).

    Similarly, the BBC didn’t show SKS’s rather misjudged “tool maker” joke in his party conference speech.
    Maybe the BBC doesn't want to repeat a defamatory remark, even though Johnson making it is newsworthy.
    Parliamentary privilege applies, surely?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,122
    edited January 2022

    Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.

    Do you think @Tissue_Price would write a thread if you asked him?

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 43,022

    eek said:

    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Never heard anything from a PM in the Commons as disgraceful as Boris' reply to Starmer today.
    Absolubtely shameful.

    Six O’Clock News not showing that bit.
    Strange that given where Jimmy Saville got most his TV work from.
    A bit rich from the PM seeing as Saville was a staunch Tory supporter.
    And the flagship Tory PM was a staunch Savile supporter!
This discussion has been closed.