Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

The first findings from the Grey report don’t look good for Johnson – politicalbetting.com

13468914

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Utterly brutal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Aaron clearly has his letter in already
  • Aaron Bell caustic
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Yikes....thats an angry Tory MP there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea

    I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.

    It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.

    I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.

    Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.

    Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
    I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the polls

    I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque

    We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
    The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.
    We must agree to differ. For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majority

    Has he squandered all that with his idiotic lies and silly marriage and hie venal inability to focus? Yes, that too

    So now it is time for him to go as he has been revealed as a lying twat good for not much more than winning campaigns (which he does brilliantly) and telling decent jokes. Off you toddle, now, Boris

    But will he? All my points today have been practical not ideological. I can see him surviving, quite easily. Indeed I can see him winning another, slender majority in 2024. His mortal enemy is not partygate, not any more, it is tax and inflation
    By the way, how was Sri Lanka this time? Hope you managed to get some decent food this time...
    Superb food everywhere! I just this minute finished one of the best Goan prawn curries of my life

    I must have been incredibly unlucky on my last trip Too many posh places and then too many unlucky choices on the street

    The food this time has been outstanding. Last night I had s Sri Lankan mud crab curry with this hybrid Med/Asian seafood broth to start

    OMFFFFG. Cost £11. In an ultra high end place

    I’ve also eaten off the street, very well, for literal pennies: all good, some sensational. I am a convert!
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Powerful stuff
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    5m
    Difficult to see how that could have gone worse for Boris. Historic moment.

    This is one of the worst performances I’ve seen from a sitting Prime Minister in a major parliamentary debate.

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1488186685997342725
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Wowser

    @Tissue_Price undecided, obv
  • Boris showing just a glimmer of a little smirk. He knows he's got away with this.

    Too early to tell.

    Four major events coming up, one of which I've seen nobody else mention yet, that could be "make or break" for him.

    1: The Police investigation. If he gets found guilty of breaking the law, that's surely terminal.
    2: The full Sue Gray report. If he knew about law breaking at the time and did nothing, that's surely terminal on its own. It would also as kinabalu likes to remind us mean he lied to Parliament and that would be terminal, but I think that's moot anyway it'd be terminal either way.
    3: The May elections. A hammering for the Tories and its terminal.

    Finally I've yet to see anyone else mention it yet but

    4: The Budget. Given the pressures on "cost of living", inflation etc and how febrile the mood is this surely must be "make or break" for both Boris and Sunak too.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    Chopped onions in Chez Eabhal on that statement from Tissue Price.
  • My overwhelming feeling watching the PM's statement from the Press Gallery? Sorry, not sorry. #SueGrayReport

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1488188104632590343
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,213
    tlg86 said:

    Utterly brutal.

    Johnson must be ruefully regretting putting guidance into laws.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Aaron Bell caustic

    You can say that again. Obviously enraged and very upset. I think the decision to do the Big Dog act has been a spectacular mistake. A bit of contrition could have gone a long way.
  • I am trembling with anger at Boris’s shamelessness.

    I have to try and put my utter fury aside, but I do believe that this is the most appalling display by a British PM in my lifetime.

    The Eddie Mair "You're a nasty piece of work" interview was 2013.

    Anyone paying any attention at all since the 1990's knew what they were getting when they promoted Boris.
    Yep, that has always been my view
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Dearie dearie dearie dearie dearie dearie me.

    Hang your heads in shame Conservatives.
  • Powerful by Tissue Price. 👍
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Robert Peston
    @Peston
    ·
    2m
    The PM is taking a huge personal risk in rejecting Tory MP demands to publish Sue Gray’s more definitive “full” report - because he is removing from them any incentive to delay their decisions to send in letters of no confidence in his leadership
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    Regarding Boris

    Ed Morrish
    @edmorrish
    Once you've been told that he always calls female MPs "she", not "the right honourable", you can't help but notice it too.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    And to think that this is just the rehearsal.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355

    The tone of the Tory backbenches is very much 'Boris gets one last chance'. This is over.

    One last chance blurs into another and before you know it you're issuing your fiftieth final ultimatum.

    Sue Gray was clear. There is no reason to delay remedial action.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Stocky said:

    Steve Baker intervention notably unhelpful. Seems to have made his mind up. Given what Mark Harper, former chief whip, said a few minutes ago not looking good for the PM.

    The 54 letters is just the start of course. Could he go on to survive the resulting VOC?
    Yes, key for betting. 2 things have to happen for him to go. The letters. He loses the resulting VONC (or gets an insufficient margin to in practice carry on).
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    Boris showing just a glimmer of a little smirk. He knows he's got away with this.

    Too early to tell.

    Four major events coming up, one of which I've seen nobody else mention yet, that could be "make or break" for him.

    1: The Police investigation. If he gets found guilty of breaking the law, that's surely terminal.
    2: The full Sue Gray report. If he knew about law breaking at the time and did nothing, that's surely terminal on its own. It would also as kinabalu likes to remind us mean he lied to Parliament and that would be terminal, but I think that's moot anyway it'd be terminal either way.
    3: The May elections. A hammering for the Tories and its terminal.

    Finally I've yet to see anyone else mention it yet but

    4: The Budget. Given the pressures on "cost of living", inflation etc and how febrile the mood is this surely must be "make or break" for both Boris and Sunak too.
    This is what the backbenchers want, really.

    Concession on tax and the cost of living.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    What is that purple star trek looking thing MPs have on their lapels?
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Good man Aaron! He is incandescent.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    Boris showing just a glimmer of a little smirk. He knows he's got away with this.

    Too early to tell.

    Four major events coming up, one of which I've seen nobody else mention yet, that could be "make or break" for him.

    1: The Police investigation. If he gets found guilty of breaking the law, that's surely terminal.
    2: The full Sue Gray report. If he knew about law breaking at the time and did nothing, that's surely terminal on its own. It would also as kinabalu likes to remind us mean he lied to Parliament and that would be terminal, but I think that's moot anyway it'd be terminal either way.
    3: The May elections. A hammering for the Tories and its terminal.

    Finally I've yet to see anyone else mention it yet but

    4: The Budget. Given the pressures on "cost of living", inflation etc and how febrile the mood is this surely must be "make or break" for both Boris and Sunak too.
    The Budget is in October / November. Next up is a spending review where there isn't any money to spend but a lot of people needing help with energy bills.
  • eek said:

    Regarding Boris

    Ed Morrish
    @edmorrish
    Once you've been told that he always calls female MPs "she", not "the right honourable", you can't help but notice it too.

    Never noticed it, but since that was just said he just referred to a male MP as "he" too.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.

    Yeh, great moment. Heartfelt.

    The shameless and carelessness of this PM is frankly beyond words, but Aaron did try.
  • Oh.

    I'm told Boris Johnson's planned call with Russian President Vladimir Putin today has been cancelled.

    When the Gray report landed the Russians were asked to shift the time - but they couldn't. So it's off...


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1488185055071678471
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    How longs Blackford out for? Forever??

    Sfaict Blackford was not thrown out because he had already left. We'll need to wait and see if the Speaker completes the paperwork.
    I don't think the Speaker is going to complete the paperwork.

    What would have been Blackford's punishment? Would we have got a By-election?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited January 2022
    Foxy said:

    Stocky said:

    Steve Baker intervention notably unhelpful. Seems to have made his mind up. Given what Mark Harper, former chief whip, said a few minutes ago not looking good for the PM.

    The 54 letters is just the start of course. Could he go on to survive the resulting VOC?
    The letters are anonymous, but is the ballot?
    Yep - it's take a ball and put it in 1 pot or the other.

    The issue then is what comes after and this (which I posted earlier https://ukandeu.ac.uk/dilemma-boris-conservatives/ ) shows the problem - there is no clear answer as to what person (or policies) you replace Boris with.

  • Greg Smith is a [moderated].
  • kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    Steve Baker intervention notably unhelpful. Seems to have made his mind up. Given what Mark Harper, former chief whip, said a few minutes ago not looking good for the PM.

    The 54 letters is just the start of course. Could he go on to survive the resulting VOC?
    Yes, key for betting. 2 things have to happen for him to go. The letters. He loses the resulting VONC (or gets an insufficient margin to in practice carry on).
    For the timing markets, beware the fact that it took 2 months between TMay announcing her intention to resign and BJ becoming leader/PM.
  • Fun fact: Teflon is usually only effective for two to three years.

    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1488115500240588800
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'

    Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    dixiedean said:

    SNP to ask for full report in Motion to the House.

    Good. I assume that all the other opposition parties and a lot of Conservatives will back the motion.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    Stocky said:

    tlg86 said:

    Utterly brutal.

    Johnson must be ruefully regretting putting guidance into laws.
    If you are going to go authoritarian, you've got to go all the way. YOu've got to have a controlled media so the horrendous mistakes can't get out.

    The Chinese are looking at the tories and thinking 'what a bunch of amateurs'

    They adopted our lockdown policy, but they didn't read all the instructions. And now look.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Oh.

    I'm told Boris Johnson's planned call with Russian President Vladimir Putin today has been cancelled.

    When the Gray report landed the Russians were asked to shift the time - but they couldn't. So it's off...


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1488185055071678471

    So there's "getting on with the job" holed below the waterline....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    PM is getting some support from his benches. The fact you have so many Tory MPs effectively saying he should resign, or saying he has insulted their constituents and then some loudly rallying to his banner speaks to just how toxic this could become to internal Tory politics.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1488189620860899330
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Rob Roberts what a hero! The Conservatives should be very very proud.
  • The pervert Rob Roberts backs Boris Johnson, that alone should force Boris Johnson out.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    IshmaelZ said:

    What is that purple star trek looking thing MPs have on their lapels?

    Are they still wearing them????

    They were for Holocoust Memorial Day last Thursday.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Ooooh! He said the B*R*E*X*I*T word! I thought that was verboten?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited January 2022

    Oh.

    I'm told Boris Johnson's planned call with Russian President Vladimir Putin today has been cancelled.

    When the Gray report landed the Russians were asked to shift the time - but they couldn't. So it's off...


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1488185055071678471

    So there's "getting on with the job" holed below the waterline....
    He'll fly to Ukraine I reckon. Probably tonight or tomorrow.

    Which might end up being his Jim Callaghan in Guadeloupe moment. Or not.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    The Gray Report might not sink Boris, but his cack-handed performance in the House today might do...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    Oh.

    I'm told Boris Johnson's planned call with Russian President Vladimir Putin today has been cancelled.

    When the Gray report landed the Russians were asked to shift the time - but they couldn't. So it's off...


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1488185055071678471

    So there's "getting on with the job" holed below the waterline....
    Feck, that is terrible. Really bad look.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Who is this deranged harpie that claims that the “small boats crisis” is the most urgent thing for the country.

    Is a lobotomy necessary to succeed in the Tory party?
  • JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    How longs Blackford out for? Forever??

    Sfaict Blackford was not thrown out because he had already left. We'll need to wait and see if the Speaker completes the paperwork.
    I don't think the Speaker is going to complete the paperwork.

    What would have been Blackford's punishment? Would we have got a By-election?
    No. A few days off.
  • eek said:

    Boris showing just a glimmer of a little smirk. He knows he's got away with this.

    Too early to tell.

    Four major events coming up, one of which I've seen nobody else mention yet, that could be "make or break" for him.

    1: The Police investigation. If he gets found guilty of breaking the law, that's surely terminal.
    2: The full Sue Gray report. If he knew about law breaking at the time and did nothing, that's surely terminal on its own. It would also as kinabalu likes to remind us mean he lied to Parliament and that would be terminal, but I think that's moot anyway it'd be terminal either way.
    3: The May elections. A hammering for the Tories and its terminal.

    Finally I've yet to see anyone else mention it yet but

    4: The Budget. Given the pressures on "cost of living", inflation etc and how febrile the mood is this surely must be "make or break" for both Boris and Sunak too.
    The Budget is in October / November. Next up is a spending review where there isn't any money to spend but a lot of people needing help with energy bills.
    Oh yes, of course it is.

    October / November is too late. The Spending Review will need to be treated as a Budget and something will need to be there for energy bills as you said. If the energy bills issue isn't dealt with that will be it for Boris and Sunak.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea

    I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.

    It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.

    I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.

    Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.

    Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
    I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the polls

    I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque

    We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
    The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.
    For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majority
    If Boris is so amazing for getting Brexit done then surely Cameron is amazinger for having the vote in the first place.
    And as for Heath, who teed the whole thing up in 1973. Doesn't get more farsighted than that...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633

    Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.

    Viewable here:

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639?t=3Cojkr7HXyoC7B62HBwdRA&s=19
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    malcolmg said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Hoyle is the worst speaker in history , a weak lickspittle.
    No way. Martin was truly horrific.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    NEW Senior Tory MP - not one or the usual critics - tells me: “That was a car crash. A lot of colleagues were waiting for the report to be published [before submitting letters of no confidence]. They may not wait now. He is is own worst enemy.” #SueGrayReport
    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1488190396094111748
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    edited January 2022

    JBriskin3 said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    How longs Blackford out for? Forever??

    Sfaict Blackford was not thrown out because he had already left. We'll need to wait and see if the Speaker completes the paperwork.
    I don't think the Speaker is going to complete the paperwork.

    What would have been Blackford's punishment? Would we have got a By-election?
    No. A few days off.
    Shame not longer (say, a year?) and the SNP Type MPs didn't all follow suit.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,861
    Priti Patel giving Boris no visible support despite sitting right next to him.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594

    eek said:

    Boris showing just a glimmer of a little smirk. He knows he's got away with this.

    Too early to tell.

    Four major events coming up, one of which I've seen nobody else mention yet, that could be "make or break" for him.

    1: The Police investigation. If he gets found guilty of breaking the law, that's surely terminal.
    2: The full Sue Gray report. If he knew about law breaking at the time and did nothing, that's surely terminal on its own. It would also as kinabalu likes to remind us mean he lied to Parliament and that would be terminal, but I think that's moot anyway it'd be terminal either way.
    3: The May elections. A hammering for the Tories and its terminal.

    Finally I've yet to see anyone else mention it yet but

    4: The Budget. Given the pressures on "cost of living", inflation etc and how febrile the mood is this surely must be "make or break" for both Boris and Sunak too.
    The Budget is in October / November. Next up is a spending review where there isn't any money to spend but a lot of people needing help with energy bills.
    Oh yes, of course it is.

    October / November is too late. The Spending Review will need to be treated as a Budget and something will need to be there for energy bills as you said. If the energy bills issue isn't dealt with that will be it for Boris and Sunak.
    Where's all the money gone?

    You....er....spent it on furlough chancellor. A furlough your leader didn't really believe in....but on the upside, most of it wasn't the target of fraud...

  • Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    300 Photographs!!!
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Who is this deranged harpie that claims that the “small boats crisis” is the most urgent thing for the country.

    Is a lobotomy necessary to succeed in the Tory party?

    Natalie Elphicke. Elected as successor to her husband after he was nicked for sex offences. Nothing eeeuw about that at all.
  • Scott_xP said:

    'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'

    Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1

    I will put Tissue down as a maybe on if he thinks Boris should go.....
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,908
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    'Does the prime minister think I'm a fool?'

    Tory MP Aaron Bell says only ten people could attend his grandmother's funeral in May 2020 - when there were two alleged lockdown-breaching gatherings at Downing Street
    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-31/sue-gray-report-condemns-serious-failure-in-number-10-to-observe-rules https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639/video/1

    Aaron and Dom. My heroes for 2022. They join Stormy Daniels in Roger's Hall of Fame
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    IshmaelZ said:

    What is that purple star trek looking thing MPs have on their lapels?

    The Holocaust Memorial Day pin, I think.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    Ooooh! He said the B*R*E*X*I*T word! I thought that was verboten?

    Eh??? If this is the PB SNP Type air support you should all time your breaks from work a bit better.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    What is that purple star trek looking thing MPs have on their lapels?

    The Holocaust Memorial Day pin, I think.
    Ah thks
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Scott_xP said:

    NEW Senior Tory MP - not one or the usual critics - tells me: “That was a car crash. A lot of colleagues were waiting for the report to be published [before submitting letters of no confidence]. They may not wait now. He is is own worst enemy.” #SueGrayReport
    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1488190396094111748

    I still can't believe Priti Patel nodding in agreement with Sir Keir Starmer.

    Blimey.

    I might not be quite so scathing about her from now on.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Foxy said:

    Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.

    Viewable here:

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639?t=3Cojkr7HXyoC7B62HBwdRA&s=19


    That is powerful. Fair play to @Tissue_Price
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Did I not forecast that some Civil Servant(s) would carry the can? Sounds very much like it. Office of the PM, someone new in charge.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited January 2022

    300 Photographs!!!

    Is it just me, or is that not very many given the number of events?

    That's 21 per event which potentially is fewer than one per person at each of those events.

    Might there be even more not there yet?
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    dixiedean said:

    The residents of Stourbridge must be delighted to be told they aren't interested.

    "What the people really want to hear is X" is one of my biggest political bugbears. And they all do it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    murali_s said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Difficult to express how boring this all seems from 5000 miles away, by the lacy moonlit waves of the Laccadive Sea

    I accept that’s it’s probably way more exciting if you are there in, er, Swindon, or whatever.

    It just seems phenomenally trivial. Obviously wrong, but equally trivial.

    I wonder if for this reason Boris has an unexpected chance of reviving, as no other PM which such terrible polling has ever done.

    Presenting things as boring or complicated and so not worth the bother is a standard evasion tactic.

    Much will be trivial, were it not for the context and particularly comments made about those events. And suddenly even the boring and trivial can become more vital. The pettiness can compound the error not exculpate the participant.
    I just get the sense - from a trillion miles away on balcony on a tropical seashore - that this is beginning to bore the fuck out of voters. And today won’t make any difference - at least in the polls

    I’m not saying it is boring PER SE, I’m a politics geek. Tho, actually, even as a geek this feels a bit damp squib-esque

    We know he is a lying fuck, we know they lied and had pastries, whatever yawn yes, we hate them, but what are they going to do about the price of petrol? Etc?
    The problem Leon is that he is not suitable to hold the office of PM. Simples. He needs to get back into showbiz and scre*ing single and married women. He cannot and is unwilling to take any responsibility; we have seen that numerous times both in politics and his personal life. He's really not a very nice man. Worst PM of my lifetime for sure, probably of all time.
    For me he is better than Brown, May, Cameron, Wilson, Heath, Callaghan and Major. He did something amazing: won the Brexit vote. Then something even amazinger: forced Brexit through by winning a genius majority
    If Boris is so amazing for getting Brexit done then surely Cameron is amazinger for having the vote in the first place.
    And as for Heath, who teed the whole thing up in 1973. Doesn't get more farsighted than that...
    Still going with the "...very sorry for misjudgments which may have been made..." line.
    That is not an apology. Fuck him.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Heathener said:

    Oh.

    I'm told Boris Johnson's planned call with Russian President Vladimir Putin today has been cancelled.

    When the Gray report landed the Russians were asked to shift the time - but they couldn't. So it's off...


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1488185055071678471

    So there's "getting on with the job" holed below the waterline....
    He'll fly to Ukraine I reckon. Probably tonight or tomorrow.

    Which might end up being his Jim Callaghan in Guadeloupe moment. Or not.
    He will feel he looks majestic astride his tank facing off the Russian Army tomorrow, and Tory backbenchers will swoon.
  • MISTYMISTY Posts: 1,594
    IshmaelZ said:

    Who is this deranged harpie that claims that the “small boats crisis” is the most urgent thing for the country.

    Is a lobotomy necessary to succeed in the Tory party?

    Natalie Elphicke. Elected as successor to her husband after he was nicked for sex offences. Nothing eeeuw about that at all.
    For her constituency, Elphicke is absolutely on the money.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    IshmaelZ said:

    Foxy said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    What is that purple star trek looking thing MPs have on their lapels?

    The Holocaust Memorial Day pin, I think.
    Ah thks
    I switched on the TV and they're not wearing them any more so you've managed to troll Holocaust Memorial Day.

    Top Work!
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Absolutely blistering from Aaron Bell.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Leaving aside our own views, do we think that MPs who have been on the fence will have shifted either way? Really hard to tell, but the absence of anyone saying so is perhaps telling.

    The public, it seems to me, are now bored by the detail, but have a settled, hostile view of the Government's position. Johnson started on the right note, but by the time he'd wheeled off into Brexit and vaccination and Jimmy Saville he was back in his natural rumbustious mode. I honestly think that for most people it simply doesn't work any more.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Farooq said:

    Blackford making it about him and is going to make the headlines and deflect the story

    Andrew Mitchell withdraws support

    Boris is on his way out

    Blackford pointedly refusing to withdraw an allegation that BJ lied to the house may not be entirely bad politics.
    Yes, I'm no fan of Blackford but he's played that perfectly from the SNP's point of view. Already looking past this immediate farce and doing the groundwork on what comes next.
    The plain fact is that the prime minister most certainly did lie to the house. In circumstances like this it is better just to be straightforward and not mince your words.
  • MISTY said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Who is this deranged harpie that claims that the “small boats crisis” is the most urgent thing for the country.

    Is a lobotomy necessary to succeed in the Tory party?

    Natalie Elphicke. Elected as successor to her husband after he was nicked for sex offences. Nothing eeeuw about that at all.
    For her constituency, Elphicke is absolutely on the money.
    For her constituency perhaps to be fair given her constituency.

    Not for the country.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    edited January 2022
    It’s very hard to read.

    For every simmering Tory, there another patsy who clearly have lost any moral sensibility they once might have had.

    My gut tells me that Boris’s response to Keir in particular was so sickeningly shameless and mendacious that it is has guaranteed a VONC.

    But my head says, do not underestimate the utter cravenness of the Tory Party.

    As an aside, Priti Patel looks very…sober, whereas Raab shared a little giggle with Boris earlier.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited January 2022
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.

    Viewable here:

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639?t=3Cojkr7HXyoC7B62HBwdRA&s=19


    That is powerful. Fair play to @Tissue_Price
    But did you really not get it until now 'Leon'? That's what so many of us had to go through or knew others who did.

    It was bloody awful. And this ****** [Redacted] in No. 10 has, as Aaron so powerfully said, made fools of us.

  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    edited January 2022

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer must be overjoyed.

    Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.

    Far too early to say that.

    If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.

    If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.

    Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
    That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.
    Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.

    Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.

    This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
    No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.

    He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?

    Let's see.
    If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.

    Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
    Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.
    Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.

    If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.

    I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
    The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited January 2022

    Ooooh! He said the B*R*E*X*I*T word! I thought that was verboten?

    Scott Benton would have been well advised not to say the B*R*E*X*I*T word too given that he does sound wather similar to Biggus Dickus.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Foxy said:

    Very proud of the contribution by PBer Aaron Bell. very effective.

    Viewable here:

    https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1488189476685893639?t=3Cojkr7HXyoC7B62HBwdRA&s=19
    I wonder what Dorries is whispering in that clip...
  • Joe Rogan, responding to Neil Young’s objections to his podcast and Spotify, said his show has grown “out of control” and pledged to be more balanced and informed about controversial topics and guests. “If I pissed you off, I’m sorry.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/spotify-publishes-content-policy-covid-19-hub-in-response-to-joe-rogan-controversy-11643572945
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    murali_s said:

    malcolmg said:

    Blackford poor today

    I thought you were a honest person G, that is shocking partisan crap and puts HYFUD to shame, I cannot believe you are much worse than him. Only person with a backbone in the place
    Thankfully the Welsh as a whole are not as ignorant as Big G. Wales, like Scotland and London will be a Tory free zone soon...
    I find it disgraceful that Big G has swung totally and defends the scumbag of Clowning Street. Very, very sad to witness.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379

    eek said:

    Regarding Boris

    Ed Morrish
    @edmorrish
    Once you've been told that he always calls female MPs "she", not "the right honourable", you can't help but notice it too.

    Never noticed it, but since that was just said he just referred to a male MP as "he" too.
    He called May "the right honourable".
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    The whole premise of "changing the way No.10 runs" is flawed. It implies that the only thing that has changed is the fact that he got caught.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,633
    Heathener said:

    Oh.

    I'm told Boris Johnson's planned call with Russian President Vladimir Putin today has been cancelled.

    When the Gray report landed the Russians were asked to shift the time - but they couldn't. So it's off...


    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1488185055071678471

    So there's "getting on with the job" holed below the waterline....
    He'll fly to Ukraine I reckon. Probably tonight or tomorrow.

    Which might end up being his Jim Callaghan in Guadeloupe moment. Or not.
    Maggie was in Paris when the vote was announced, wasn't she?

    Foreign trips very dangerous for leaders. Perfect time for a couple.
  • Leaving aside our own views, do we think that MPs who have been on the fence will have shifted either way? Really hard to tell, but the absence of anyone saying so is perhaps telling.

    The public, it seems to me, are now bored by the detail, but have a settled, hostile view of the Government's position. Johnson started on the right note, but by the time he'd wheeled off into Brexit and vaccination and Jimmy Saville he was back in his natural rumbustious mode. I honestly think that for most people it simply doesn't work any more.

    Anyone have Alastair M's spreadsheet in the one hand and the coverage in the other?
  • I'm sorry but you are not fit to be an MP if you wear a sweater like that in the House of Commons.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    Breaking: Scotland Yard just said they've been handed more than **300** photographs as part of their partygate probe. Wow.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1488184464861798401

    Johnson would be better to resign now.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Starmer must be overjoyed.

    Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.

    Far too early to say that.

    If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.

    If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.

    Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
    That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.
    Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.

    Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.

    This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
    No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.

    He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?

    Let's see.
    If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.

    Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
    Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.
    Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.

    If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.

    I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
    The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.
    If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?

    Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    It’s very hard to read.

    For every simmering Tory, there another patsy who clearly have lost any moral sensibility they once might have had.

    My gut tells me that Boris’s response to Keir in particular was so sickeningly shameless and mendacious that it is has guaranteed a VONC.

    But my head says, do not underestimate the utter cravenness of the Tory Party.

    As an aside, Priti Patel looks very…sober, whereas Raab shared a little giggle with Boris earlier.

    Don't underestimate their cravenness, but also don't underestimate their instinct to keep their jobs.
This discussion has been closed.