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The first findings from the Grey report don’t look good for Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118
    Farooq said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson just declined to promise to resign if he is fined for breaching Covid rules.
    https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1488196241062305792

    He needs a boot. A very, very hard boot.
    If the PM is fined it won't just be one £100. Lord Brownlow best get his chequebook ready.
    £100 is about 2.6 minutes work if you're, say, a highly-paid Telegraph columnist.
    Yes, if he's resigned and isn't still blustering it out!
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    Sex. That's why.

    Unless he's going to say he didn't know anything about these parties because he was ... er ..... elsewhere.

    Which could very well be true, of course.

    Honestly, it's government as Feydeau farce.
    I wish I was educated enough to know what a Feydeau farce was. I refuse to google every five minutes.
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    Well he's timed it just right for the "fair and balanced" (sarcasm) Scottish media at 6 and 6.30
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,574
    Aaron Bell being replayed in full on R4 PM
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,952
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Hm. That doesn't take into account Mr Johnson's scintillating performance at PMQ today.
    If the 1922 bottle it tonight then they really have no moral fibre at all, and deserve their fate.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,078
    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.

    Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,264
    "Who is his paying for his legal advice?" asks Labour MP Rachael Maskell.

    Good Q... Is PM receiving taxpayer-funded advice on Met investigation from the Govt legal department, or himself paying for independent legal advice?

    Where does this cross from Govt to private matter?

    https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1488198966315528192
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,064

    Cyclefree said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    Sex. That's why.

    Unless he's going to say he didn't know anything about these parties because he was ... er ..... elsewhere.

    Which could very well be true, of course.

    Honestly, it's government as Feydeau farce.
    I wish I was educated enough to know what a Feydeau farce was. I refuse to google every five minutes.
    Me neither, so I looked it up for myself - very popular in the last two decades of the Long Nineteenth Century. Wiki says "The plays of Feydeau are marked by closely observed characters, with whom his audiences could identify, plunged into fast-moving comic plots of mistaken identity, attempted adultery, split-second timing and a precariously happy ending."
  • Options
    kinabalu said:

    Wow - Boris responded to an accusation of drug taking in no 10 said, no you should look at the Labour front bench

    There's been a few "wows" at the PM's comments from you today, Big G.

    Is he taking you by surprise with his utter shamelessness?
    Two I think but rejecting a suggestion that no 10 was on drugs and referring it to labour front bench was a wow
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
  • Options

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    I must say given the constraint of the Gray report not being an actual report, hard to see how this could have gone better
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    JBriskin3 said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    Well he's timed it just right for the "fair and balanced" (sarcasm) Scottish media at 6 and 6.30
    Christ, not this again. Wah, the MSM is biased! You're no different from the hardcore nats who say the same crap.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,064
    edited January 2022
    JBriskin3 said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    Well he's timed it just right for the "fair and balanced" (sarcasm) Scottish media at 6 and 6.30

    Edit: Eabhal has made my point more subtly ...
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    Personally, I thought Blackford was excellent. Normally he comes across as a rather pompous windbag, but today he was on form.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    Well he's timed it just right for the "fair and balanced" (sarcasm) Scottish media at 6 and 6.30
    Christ, not this again. Wah, the MSM is biased! You're no different from the hardcore nats who say the same crap.
    I think you're almost accepting that I have a genuine point there. Rather different from Dickson's take.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Conservative MP just came out of the chamber and told #C4News “I was a (Boris Johnson) supporter…but now I don’t really know”

    https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1488186369805627392
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,574
    All this points to the actual report, if we ever get to see it, being pretty damning.
  • Options

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
    jokes. mostly.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,057
    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    Agreed.
    The spectacle of a blatant and incorrigible liar being sheltered by parliamentary rules is pretty sickening.
  • Options

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
    jokes. mostly.
  • Options
    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,078
    edited January 2022
    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.

    Also it doesn't trigger a byelection - it triggers a recall petition and good luck trying to get the correct number of signatures for an SNP MP in Scotland - it isn't going to happen.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,574

    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties

    But who investigates the investigator?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118

    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties

    Why only 8?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,064
    edited January 2022
    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    [ignore - got the point a bit too slowly]
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Tweet
    See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Alastair Meeks
    @AlastairMeeks
    The absence of any more Tory backbench questions is telling a story.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1488196115044487173

    Bloody right, is this the 5th SNP er in a row?
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Farooq said:

    IanB2 said:

    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties

    But who investigates the investigator?
    Vimes
    Excellent choice :D:D
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118
    Deleted...... vanilla or my computer playing silly whatsits.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Blackford doesn't want to be seen shooting Sturgeon's fox.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.

    Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
    Under PR Labour would only get 260 seats on 40% of the vote, not the 300 they are forecast to get under FPTP
  • Options

    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties

    Why only 8?
    No idea but the BBC just announced it
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,844
    Hope some MP asks Truss about Johnson's cancelled Putin call because of the Grey report.....
  • Options
    Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 7,981
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    [ignore - got the point a bit too slowly]
    It depends on how many spines are in the Tory party. I seemed to me that today, Boris shifted from treating the country with contempt to treating the House with contempt.

    It is the sort of thing that upsets MPs.... well.... some of them.... :smile:
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,078
    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
    What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,911

    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties

    Why only 8?
    No idea but the BBC just announced it
    Yes 12 parties 8 to Met 4 didnt meet threshold
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Also it doesn't trigger a byelection - it triggers a recall petition and good luck trying to get the correct number of signatures for an SNP MP in Scotland - it isn't going to happen.
    Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
  • Options

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
    Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:

    1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda

    2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
    It's Fluphenazine you need, not Erskine.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118
    Headline in the Express tomorrow 'Boris comes out fighting'?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,078
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.

    Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
    Under PR Labour would only get 260 seats on 40% of the vote, not the 300 they are forecast to get under FPTP
    Yep but left leaning parties would get 61% of the vote (probably 62% assuming plaid Cymru are in the other category).
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,887
    edited January 2022
    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,118

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
    Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:

    1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda

    2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
    Fairy nuff. Sounds about right!
  • Options
    ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    .

    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties

    Why only 8?
    No idea but the BBC just announced it
    Looks like the same counting error that several people made here earlier?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,070
    Is there much point in the Met now being involved. I thought there was a six month cut off?

    Legal eagle please.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,837
    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    The issue is slightly different IMO. The system assumes members are honourable people and if they misled the House it was inadvertent or they could pretend it was, they will fess up and everyone will move on. The system isn't designed for prime ministers as fundamentally dishonest as Boris Johnson.

    They badly need lying to the House to be brought within the disciplinary process. The Committed would establish the facts of any allegations of lying with a potential penalty of being excluded from parliament.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,078

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    [ignore - got the point a bit too slowly]
    It depends on how many spines are in the Tory party. I seemed to me that today, Boris shifted from treating the country with contempt to treating the House with contempt.

    It is the sort of thing that upsets MPs.... well.... some of them.... :smile:
    Not 54 I suspect.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    edited January 2022

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
    So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.

    Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
  • Options
    HeathenerHeathener Posts: 5,427
    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    But but but this isn't one of your approved pollsters (currently down to two) and yet you have quoted it here

    But you dissed yesterday's Deltapoll giving Labour a, er, 10% lead.

    Anyway ... back to the action ...
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,064
    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
    What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
    Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Farooq said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
    It's Fluphenazine you need, not Erskine.
    I get plenty of input on my medical treatment by the SNHS - I don't need your input.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,064
    FF43 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    The issue is slightly different IMO. The system assumes members are honourable people and if they misled the House it was inadvertent or they could pretend it was, they will fess up and everyone will move on. The system isn't designed for prime ministers as fundamentally dishonest as Boris Johnson.

    They badly need lying to the House to be brought within the disciplinary process. The Committed would establish the facts of any allegations of lying with a potential penalty of being excluded from parliament.
    Quite so, which makes it odd that the Speaker didn't accept Mr Blackford's offer to say 'inadevertently misled'. Why not?
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
    So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.

    Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
    A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
    What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
    Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
    So why did he Bottle It then?

    #BlackfordBottledIt
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,844
    Lammy drops into his response that he was in Kiev two weeks ago.....
  • Options

    Met will be investigated 8 of the alleged parties

    Why only 8?
    No idea but the BBC just announced it
    Yes 12 parties 8 to Met 4 didnt meet threshold
    Are you sure it's not 12 parties on 8 dates? That's what Sky said earlier.

    Which fits with Gray finding 16 gatherings, 4 of which weren't to be investigated.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,064
    JBriskin3 said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
    What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
    Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
    So why did he Bottle It then?

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Don't know that yet in any case - depends what Mr Speaker does with the bumf. If indeed anything.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Disappointed no Brady announcement yet
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,264
    One of the many difficulties facing Boris Johnson is that the only people left to defend him are clear, demonstrable idiots. Nadine Dorries on Sky News right now is just not helping at all.
    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1488203665949212673
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,019
    I have a grudging respect for Dorries. Quite an energetic performance on Sky News.
  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,245
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Disappointed no Brady announcement yet
    Presumably they’ll let him squirm at the 6pm meeting and get a read of the room. With the announcement tomorrow morning (if indeed there remains 54 Tory MPs with honour).
  • Options
    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Carnyx said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    Carnyx said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    eek said:

    FF43 said:

    DearPB said:

    Lyndsey Hoyle found that genuinely upsetting

    Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.

    The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
    I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.

    Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
    AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.

    The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
    A theoretically possible by-election then?

    I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
    What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
    Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
    So why did he Bottle It then?

    #BlackfordBottledIt
    Don't know that yet in any case - depends what Mr Speaker does with the bumf. If indeed anything.
    It was pretty clear that Sir Lindsay accepted his Bottle technique as a suitable enough compromise.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,844
    Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.

    https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.

    Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
    Under PR Labour would only get 260 seats on 40% of the vote, not the 300 they are forecast to get under FPTP
    Yep but left leaning parties would get 61% of the vote (probably 62% assuming plaid Cymru are in the other category).
    The LDs were in a coalition government with the Tories from 2010 to 2015, they may not be keen on Brexit but they are not left leaning.

    A Labour government dependent on the SNP and PC under PR would be even more unstable than the Labour minority government but still largest party forecast under FPTP
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,122
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Disappointed no Brady announcement yet
    I'm surprised. Really thought it would have happened by now.
  • Options
    IshmaelZ said:

    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Disappointed no Brady announcement yet
    If one were coming it'd likely come tomorrow morning.

    Boris has a scheduled speech to the 1922 tonight and I'd assume people thinking of submitting a letter would wait until after that.

    If it goes past 54 then, it needs to be double checked by his deputy and then probably announced in the morning tomorrow.

    May's VONC was announced in the morning.
  • Options
    Carnyx said:



    Me neither, so I looked it up for myself - very popular in the last two decades of the Long Nineteenth Century. Wiki says "The plays of Feydeau are marked by closely observed characters, with whom his audiences could identify, plunged into fast-moving comic plots of mistaken identity, attempted adultery, split-second timing and a precariously happy ending."

    I'm genuinely astonished that anyone here didn't know what a Feydeau farce is. My assumptions of what constitutes our common body of culture is clearly wrong.

    If done well, they are amongst the funniest plays you will ever see. However, I do remember an absolutely excruciating National Theatre performance of 'Occupe toi d'Amélie' (in English) many years ago, which we took my sister-in-law and her husband to. Having promised them a really entertaining evening - it's one of the funniest of his plays - it was so dire that by common consent we left at the interval.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,214
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
    So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.

    Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
    A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.
    For Boris though Sunak is more of a danger to his premiership now and until the next general election than Starmer is
  • Options
    The public are morons.

    🚨BREAKING - NEW POLL 🚨

    53% think pineapple should be a pizza topping, 36% think it shouldn't be.

    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1488204029356294149?s=21
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,574
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.

    Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
    Under PR Labour would only get 260 seats on 40% of the vote, not the 300 they are forecast to get under FPTP
    Yep but left leaning parties would get 61% of the vote (probably 62% assuming plaid Cymru are in the other category).
    The LDs were in a coalition government with the Tories from 2010 to 2015, they may not be keen on Brexit but they are not left leaning.

    A Labour government dependent on the SNP and PC under PR would be even more unstable than the Labour minority government but still largest party forecast under FPTP
    Yes, they are mostly centre-left leaning.

    Your party had a remarkable opportunity during and immediately after the coalition, which history, taking the long view, will come to see that you blew entirely, due to self interest.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,201

    kinabalu said:

    Wow - Boris responded to an accusation of drug taking in no 10 said, no you should look at the Labour front bench

    There's been a few "wows" at the PM's comments from you today, Big G.

    Is he taking you by surprise with his utter shamelessness?
    Two I think but rejecting a suggestion that no 10 was on drugs and referring it to labour front bench was a wow
    Rach and Ange havin' it large
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,844
    Good response from Lammy - rightly bringing up London's role as the Rouble Laundromat......although some of his points are not really FCO responsibilities, more the Treasury.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,837

    Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?

    Putin
    Someone else posted that, too. Why?
    Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:

    1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda

    2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
    3. Putin is paying for Johnson and wants to get something for his money. By the way what DID happen with the Russia Report?
  • Options
    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211
    I don't know about you guys, but I think lessons have been learned.
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
    So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.

    Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
    A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.
    For Boris though Sunak is more of a danger to his premiership now and until the next general election than Starmer is
    As I have said before, it is better to read polls mid term in terms of general direction of travel. If the Conservatives keep Big Clown they are going to be smashed at the next election. Labour/LD will then consolidate with electoral reform and the centre right is out for decades
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,887

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,911
    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
  • Options
    FarooqFarooq Posts: 10,797
    Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?

    That was FORTY SIX days ago.

    The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,201

    Hope some MP asks Truss about Johnson's cancelled Putin call because of the Grey report.....


    G R A Y

    Great Report About Yob
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,574
    Scott_xP said:

    Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.

    https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA

    Can't remember who said it, but the big problem for BoZo is anyone who saw him today saw the real man behind the mask. His success to date has been based on hiding that behind the comic persona
    +1. It was 50% hurt, that anyone could possibly doubt his essential greatness, and 50% lashing out at all and sundry, leading to some bizarre comments about Saville and drug taking.
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    solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,623

    The public are morons.

    🚨BREAKING - NEW POLL 🚨

    53% think pineapple should be a pizza topping, 36% think it shouldn't be.

    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1488204029356294149?s=21

    11% don't know what a pizza is?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,211
    Scott_xP said:

    I was hoping today to see a Prime Minister taking responsibility & being genuinely apologetic. I should have known better. What we got was a Prime Minister who threw insults at Keir Starmer about Jimmy Savile and accused Labour frontbenchers of drug taking. What an utter disgrace https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1488195837477990421/photo/1

    I don't often agree with Iain Dale, but I think he's spot on.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,844
    edited January 2022
    Nicholson SNP asking Truss about cancelled Johnson-Putin call......which Truss does not directly answer....
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    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    A question that Conservative MPs will have to ask themselves is this. If they leave Johnson in place, how will they justify this delay to their constituents when the full details are finally (and inevitably) set out?

    https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1488169412502958082
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    JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    So who on the Labour front bench takes hard drugs

    I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.

    We'll have to wait about ten years with a weekly joke in Private Eye to keep us entertained while we wait.
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    The public are morons.

    🚨BREAKING - NEW POLL 🚨

    53% think pineapple should be a pizza topping, 36% think it shouldn't be.

    https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1488204029356294149?s=21

    11% don't know what a pizza is?
    They don't eat pizza.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,574
    edited January 2022
    Scott_xP said:

    So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.

    Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.

    What more do Tory MPs need?

    A spine
    Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.

    In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
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    Scott_xP said:

    I was hoping today to see a Prime Minister taking responsibility & being genuinely apologetic. I should have known better. What we got was a Prime Minister who threw insults at Keir Starmer about Jimmy Savile and accused Labour frontbenchers of drug taking. What an utter disgrace https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1488195837477990421/photo/1

    Is Iain Dale still a thing? Back in his heyday I once got censured on here for posting that he was 'as p*ssed as a newt'.
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    Farooq said:

    Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?

    That was FORTY SIX days ago.

    The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.

    One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essential
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    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,264
    IanB2 said:

    +1. It was 50% hurt, that anyone could possibly doubt his essential greatness, and 50% lashing out at all and sundry, leading to some bizarre comments about Saville and drug taking.

    Johnson last Wednesday: "He is a lawyer. I am a leader."

    Johnson today: "Nothing he contests is supported by the conclusions of the report and his suggestions are highly prejudicial."

    🤔


    https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1488205912577871881
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