Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
Agreed. The spectacle of a blatant and incorrigible liar being sheltered by parliamentary rules is pretty sickening.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
Also it doesn't trigger a byelection - it triggers a recall petition and good luck trying to get the correct number of signatures for an SNP MP in Scotland - it isn't going to happen.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
A theoretically possible by-election then?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
[ignore - got the point a bit too slowly]
It depends on how many spines are in the Tory party. I seemed to me that today, Boris shifted from treating the country with contempt to treating the House with contempt.
It is the sort of thing that upsets MPs.... well.... some of them....
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
A theoretically possible by-election then?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Also it doesn't trigger a byelection - it triggers a recall petition and good luck trying to get the correct number of signatures for an SNP MP in Scotland - it isn't going to happen.
Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough.
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
The issue is slightly different IMO. The system assumes members are honourable people and if they misled the House it was inadvertent or they could pretend it was, they will fess up and everyone will move on. The system isn't designed for prime ministers as fundamentally dishonest as Boris Johnson.
They badly need lying to the House to be brought within the disciplinary process. The Committed would establish the facts of any allegations of lying with a potential penalty of being excluded from parliament.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
[ignore - got the point a bit too slowly]
It depends on how many spines are in the Tory party. I seemed to me that today, Boris shifted from treating the country with contempt to treating the House with contempt.
It is the sort of thing that upsets MPs.... well.... some of them....
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
A theoretically possible by-election then?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
A theoretically possible by-election then?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
It's Fluphenazine you need, not Erskine.
I get plenty of input on my medical treatment by the SNHS - I don't need your input.
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
The issue is slightly different IMO. The system assumes members are honourable people and if they misled the House it was inadvertent or they could pretend it was, they will fess up and everyone will move on. The system isn't designed for prime ministers as fundamentally dishonest as Boris Johnson.
They badly need lying to the House to be brought within the disciplinary process. The Committed would establish the facts of any allegations of lying with a potential penalty of being excluded from parliament.
Quite so, which makes it odd that the Speaker didn't accept Mr Blackford's offer to say 'inadevertently misled'. Why not?
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
A theoretically possible by-election then?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
A theoretically possible by-election then?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
So why did he Bottle It then?
#BlackfordBottledIt
Don't know that yet in any case - depends what Mr Speaker does with the bumf. If indeed anything.
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
One of the many difficulties facing Boris Johnson is that the only people left to defend him are clear, demonstrable idiots. Nadine Dorries on Sky News right now is just not helping at all. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1488203665949212673
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
A spine
Disappointed no Brady announcement yet
Presumably they’ll let him squirm at the 6pm meeting and get a read of the room. With the announcement tomorrow morning (if indeed there remains 54 Tory MPs with honour).
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
AHHHH - So we were in By-election territory after all.
#BlackfordBottledIt
Nope it's usually a 2-5 day ban.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
A theoretically possible by-election then?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
What a by-election after a recall petition for Blackford after calling Boris a liar. Slightly more chance of Sinn Fein actually walking into the House of Commons
Mr Johnson is almostd as unpopular in Scotland as he is in NI. And by definition Mr Blackford is not in a Tory voting seat.
So why did he Bottle It then?
#BlackfordBottledIt
Don't know that yet in any case - depends what Mr Speaker does with the bumf. If indeed anything.
It was pretty clear that Sir Lindsay accepted his Bottle technique as a suitable enough compromise.
Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.
Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.
Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
Under PR Labour would only get 260 seats on 40% of the vote, not the 300 they are forecast to get under FPTP
Yep but left leaning parties would get 61% of the vote (probably 62% assuming plaid Cymru are in the other category).
The LDs were in a coalition government with the Tories from 2010 to 2015, they may not be keen on Brexit but they are not left leaning.
A Labour government dependent on the SNP and PC under PR would be even more unstable than the Labour minority government but still largest party forecast under FPTP
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
A spine
Disappointed no Brady announcement yet
I'm surprised. Really thought it would have happened by now.
I was hoping today to see a Prime Minister taking responsibility & being genuinely apologetic. I should have known better. What we got was a Prime Minister who threw insults at Keir Starmer about Jimmy Savile and accused Labour frontbenchers of drug taking. What an utter disgrace https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1488195837477990421/photo/1
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
A spine
Disappointed no Brady announcement yet
If one were coming it'd likely come tomorrow morning.
Boris has a scheduled speech to the 1922 tonight and I'd assume people thinking of submitting a letter would wait until after that.
If it goes past 54 then, it needs to be double checked by his deputy and then probably announced in the morning tomorrow.
Me neither, so I looked it up for myself - very popular in the last two decades of the Long Nineteenth Century. Wiki says "The plays of Feydeau are marked by closely observed characters, with whom his audiences could identify, plunged into fast-moving comic plots of mistaken identity, attempted adultery, split-second timing and a precariously happy ending."
I'm genuinely astonished that anyone here didn't know what a Feydeau farce is. My assumptions of what constitutes our common body of culture is clearly wrong.
If done well, they are amongst the funniest plays you will ever see. However, I do remember an absolutely excruciating National Theatre performance of 'Occupe toi d'Amélie' (in English) many years ago, which we took my sister-in-law and her husband to. Having promised them a really entertaining evening - it's one of the funniest of his plays - it was so dire that by common consent we left at the interval.
Apart from Johnson himself, and possibly Liz Truss, who actually wants him to go to Ukraine tonight?
Putin
Someone else posted that, too. Why?
Why would Putin want Johnson in Ukraine? Because:
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
Fairy nuff. Sounds about right!
Putin loves Johnson for the same reason he loves Trump. He knows both individuals undermine Western democracy. Johnson is one of the most useful idiots he could ever hope for.
Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.
Can't remember who said it, but the big problem for BoZo is anyone who saw him today saw the real man behind the mask. His success to date has been based on hiding that behind the comic persona
Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.
Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
Under PR Labour would only get 260 seats on 40% of the vote, not the 300 they are forecast to get under FPTP
Yep but left leaning parties would get 61% of the vote (probably 62% assuming plaid Cymru are in the other category).
The LDs were in a coalition government with the Tories from 2010 to 2015, they may not be keen on Brexit but they are not left leaning.
A Labour government dependent on the SNP and PC under PR would be even more unstable than the Labour minority government but still largest party forecast under FPTP
Yes, they are mostly centre-left leaning.
Your party had a remarkable opportunity during and immediately after the coalition, which history, taking the long view, will come to see that you blew entirely, due to self interest.
Good response from Lammy - rightly bringing up London's role as the Rouble Laundromat......although some of his points are not really FCO responsibilities, more the Treasury.
Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.
Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.
For Boris though Sunak is more of a danger to his premiership now and until the next general election than Starmer is
As I have said before, it is better to read polls mid term in terms of general direction of travel. If the Conservatives keep Big Clown they are going to be smashed at the next election. Labour/LD will then consolidate with electoral reform and the centre right is out for decades
Johnson's performance in the House mirrors his private conversations with ministers and MPs. He may say he is sorry, but he doesn't mean it and he still refuses to tell the truth.
Can't remember who said it, but the big problem for BoZo is anyone who saw him today saw the real man behind the mask. His success to date has been based on hiding that behind the comic persona
+1. It was 50% hurt, that anyone could possibly doubt his essential greatness, and 50% lashing out at all and sundry, leading to some bizarre comments about Saville and drug taking.
I was hoping today to see a Prime Minister taking responsibility & being genuinely apologetic. I should have known better. What we got was a Prime Minister who threw insults at Keir Starmer about Jimmy Savile and accused Labour frontbenchers of drug taking. What an utter disgrace https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1488195837477990421/photo/1
I don't often agree with Iain Dale, but I think he's spot on.
A question that Conservative MPs will have to ask themselves is this. If they leave Johnson in place, how will they justify this delay to their constituents when the full details are finally (and inevitably) set out?
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
A spine
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
I was hoping today to see a Prime Minister taking responsibility & being genuinely apologetic. I should have known better. What we got was a Prime Minister who threw insults at Keir Starmer about Jimmy Savile and accused Labour frontbenchers of drug taking. What an utter disgrace https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1488195837477990421/photo/1
Is Iain Dale still a thing? Back in his heyday I once got censured on here for posting that he was 'as p*ssed as a newt'.
Remember when Graham Brady said he'd accept emails from Conservative MPs expressing no confidence in Boris Johnson?
That was FORTY SIX days ago.
The tooth is still rotting in the mouth. It still needs pulling. But now it's just hurting the Conservatives more and more. Completely avoidable, entirely too slow. What this delay tells us is that at least 300 Conservative MPs are useless. I wish we knew who are the ones who could see where this was going and had their letters in before Christmas, but whoever they are (if any), they are surrounded by cattle.
One of the difficulties is the payroll vote. That means that to get to 54 it is a lot harder than it at first appears. A lot of MPs won't trust the anonymity, so will probably hold off unless they think it is essential
+1. It was 50% hurt, that anyone could possibly doubt his essential greatness, and 50% lashing out at all and sundry, leading to some bizarre comments about Saville and drug taking.
Johnson last Wednesday: "He is a lawyer. I am a leader."
Johnson today: "Nothing he contests is supported by the conclusions of the report and his suggestions are highly prejudicial."
Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.
Far too early to say that.
If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.
If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.
Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.
Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.
Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.
This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.
He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?
Let's see.
If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.
Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.
If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.
I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.
If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
Lying to Parliament is absolutely a resigning offence, whether laws were broken or not. It is absolutely clear from the Ministerial Code that any minister who lies to Parliament is expected to resign.
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.
Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.
For Boris though Sunak is more of a danger to his premiership now and until the next general election than Starmer is
I suspect someone like Aaron Bell right now is not thinking too much about who replaces Johnson, but is just incandescent at being associated with him and wants him gone immediately.
Johnson and his lackeys have in my view made a strategic error in fighting the changing of the 1922 rules and outright denigrating their worth.
People like Bernard Jenkins would rather the changing of the guard happened in the summer and are not putting in their letter now. But if a vote is called, is he really prepared to risk Boris styling it out for another 12 months, falling back on the 1922 rules not being properly observed, which his outriders have already said have no legal status anyway?
Unlike May who eventually stepped aside when she knew she had lost the party’s confidence, Johnson has made it clear he will use every trick in the Trumpian playbook to keep his greasy fingers on the levers of power.
So are there 54 MPs in the Aaron Bell camp tonight? Will be interesting to see. I’d be shocked if there weren’t enough MPs who can see through the strategy.
Starmer now leading Sunak by 1% on best PM as well though, 39% to 38%.
So even Sunak does not lead Starmer as best PM.
Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
A bizarre conclusion. What this means is that the stench of Bj’s corruption is rubbing off on the whole party in the eyes of voters.
For Boris though Sunak is more of a danger to his premiership now and until the next general election than Starmer is
As I have said before, it is better to read polls mid term in terms of general direction of travel. If the Conservatives keep Big Clown they are going to be smashed at the next election. Labour/LD will then consolidate with electoral reform and the centre right is out for decades
Labour would split under PR. The Unions and Corbynites would walk out of the Labour party the day PR came in and set up their own party so not sure that automatically follows.
The Liberal Democrats would usually be Kingmakers, as 2010 showed however they can go with the Tories as well as Labour. RefUK and the Greens could also win seats and could also be part of future coalition governments under PR.
Plus if Labour did agree to PR they would do it anyway in due course when they next win a general election. If Sunak scraped 1 more Tory win it would just be delaying the inevitable
I never thought I would say this but I agree with everything Ian Blackford has said on Sky just now
As a conservative for near 60 years of my life, apart from 1997 and 2001, I am in despair that conservative mps cannot just do the right thing and remove Boris
Still Labour lead at 9% and still only a hung parliament.
Thanks for confirming the need for a decent voting system.
Under PR Labour would only get 260 seats on 40% of the vote, not the 300 they are forecast to get under FPTP
Yep but left leaning parties would get 61% of the vote (probably 62% assuming plaid Cymru are in the other category).
The LDs were in a coalition government with the Tories from 2010 to 2015, they may not be keen on Brexit but they are not left leaning.
A Labour government dependent on the SNP and PC under PR would be even more unstable than the Labour minority government but still largest party forecast under FPTP
Yes, they are mostly centre-left leaning.
Your party had a remarkable opportunity during and immediately after the coalition, which history, taking the long view, will come to see that you blew entirely, due to self interest.
Under PR the Liberal Democrats would also likely split.
Social Democrats and Orange Bookers would go their own way. The former normally going with Starmer Labour, the latter closer to Cameroon Tories
Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
I was hoping today to see a Prime Minister taking responsibility & being genuinely apologetic. I should have known better. What we got was a Prime Minister who threw insults at Keir Starmer about Jimmy Savile and accused Labour frontbenchers of drug taking. What an utter disgrace https://twitter.com/IainDale/status/1488195837477990421/photo/1
Is Iain Dale still a thing? Back in his heyday I once got censured on here for posting that he was 'as p*ssed as a newt'.
So, we know he lied to the House. We know the truth is damning. We know the Met - by cock-up or conspiracy - has overseen at best a delay, and worst a cover-up.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
A spine
Actually, they need to lose Southend on Thursday. History may be changed simply because in the whole (well, half) of Southend there isn’t one halfway sensible centre or centre-left independently minded person willing to put themselves up in a by-election.
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
Well that was because it was regarded as a bit distasteful to stand in this particular by-election.
In a bleak landscape, Britain stands out. We are bolstering our military presence in Estonia, sending arms to Ukraine and stiffening soggy European spines. Our defence secretary Ben Wallace excoriates the “skewed and selective” reasoning behind Vladimir Putin’s revanchism. The foreign secretary, Liz Truss, is promising new sanctions on Russian energy companies and oligarchs. The message is clear: Britain is the proud linchpin of the Atlantic alliance and the international security order.
Behind the bombast is another, uglier story, in which Britain stands out not for its mettle in resisting the Russian regime but for aiding and abetting it. Kremlin cronies have for years used London to launder their reputations and ill-gotten gains. An army of bankers, lawyers, accountants and fixers make their own smaller fortunes through this trade.
The MET investigation will not last "more than a year"
Given Sue Gray's team has done all the spade work and the penalties are only fixed penalties, why should the MET take more than a week or two? They didn't take a year to investigate the thousands of other fixed penalty covid crimes.
Comments
https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1488186369805627392
The spectacle of a blatant and incorrigible liar being sheltered by parliamentary rules is pretty sickening.
The entire point of shifting it to 9 days was to utterly screw Boris when the inevitable occurs and his lies to Parliament finally catch up with him.
Also it doesn't trigger a byelection - it triggers a recall petition and good luck trying to get the correct number of signatures for an SNP MP in Scotland - it isn't going to happen.
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Alastair Meeks
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The absence of any more Tory backbench questions is telling a story.
https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1488196115044487173
Bloody right, is this the 5th SNP er in a row?
I'm not getting much Erskine help from you lot today.
It is the sort of thing that upsets MPs.... well.... some of them....
#BlackfordBottledIt
1. Johnson is a Putinist, who is helping (wittingly or not) to advance Putin's agenda
2. Johnson fucks up everything he touches, so having him on the West's "team" is (another) plus for Putin.
Meanwhile, Boris accuses Keir of failing to prosecute a serial paedophile, and then suggests that the Labour front bench are on hard drugs.
What more do Tory MPs need?
Legal eagle please.
They badly need lying to the House to be brought within the disciplinary process. The Committed would establish the facts of any allegations of lying with a potential penalty of being excluded from parliament.
Good news for Boris there as well as Starmer
But you dissed yesterday's Deltapoll giving Labour a, er, 10% lead.
Anyway ... back to the action ...
#BlackfordBottledIt
Which fits with Gray finding 16 gatherings, 4 of which weren't to be investigated.
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1488203665949212673
https://twitter.com/NJ_Timothy/status/1488203544478027778?s=20&t=nQZNfBgj7Fd6QKC6qfr2UA
A Labour government dependent on the SNP and PC under PR would be even more unstable than the Labour minority government but still largest party forecast under FPTP
Boris has a scheduled speech to the 1922 tonight and I'd assume people thinking of submitting a letter would wait until after that.
If it goes past 54 then, it needs to be double checked by his deputy and then probably announced in the morning tomorrow.
May's VONC was announced in the morning.
If done well, they are amongst the funniest plays you will ever see. However, I do remember an absolutely excruciating National Theatre performance of 'Occupe toi d'Amélie' (in English) many years ago, which we took my sister-in-law and her husband to. Having promised them a really entertaining evening - it's one of the funniest of his plays - it was so dire that by common consent we left at the interval.
🚨BREAKING - NEW POLL 🚨
53% think pineapple should be a pizza topping, 36% think it shouldn't be.
https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1488204029356294149?s=21
Your party had a remarkable opportunity during and immediately after the coalition, which history, taking the long view, will come to see that you blew entirely, due to self interest.
Emigrate.
I know with SKS being leader it must be tempting to take speed so they can stay awake but wasnt aware it was public.
G R A Y
Great Report About Yob
https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1488169412502958082
In an alternative universe the Green Party or similar is about to chalk up the most amazing by-election victory.
Johnson today: "Nothing he contests is supported by the conclusions of the report and his suggestions are highly prejudicial."
🤔
https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1488205912577871881
Guillotined Report About Yob probably more accurate
“It is of paramount importance that ministers give accurate and truthful information to parliament, correcting any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity. Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation to the Prime Minister.”
Johnson and his lackeys have in my view made a strategic error in fighting the changing of the 1922 rules and outright denigrating their worth.
People like Bernard Jenkins would rather the changing of the guard happened in the summer and are not putting in their letter now. But if a vote is called, is he really prepared to risk Boris styling it out for another 12 months, falling back on the 1922 rules not being properly observed, which his outriders have already said have no legal status anyway?
Unlike May who eventually stepped aside when she knew she had lost the party’s confidence, Johnson has made it clear he will use every trick in the Trumpian playbook to keep his greasy fingers on the levers of power.
So are there 54 MPs in the Aaron Bell camp tonight? Will be interesting to see. I’d be shocked if there weren’t enough MPs who can see through the strategy.
The Liberal Democrats would usually be Kingmakers, as 2010 showed however they can go with the Tories as well as Labour. RefUK and the Greens could also win seats and could also be part of future coalition governments under PR.
Plus if Labour did agree to PR they would do it anyway in due course when they next win a general election. If Sunak scraped 1 more Tory win it would just be delaying the inevitable
Hmmmmm
As a conservative for near 60 years of my life, apart from 1997 and 2001, I am in despair that conservative mps cannot just do the right thing and remove Boris
Social Democrats and Orange Bookers would go their own way. The former normally going with Starmer Labour, the latter closer to Cameroon Tories
https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1488207078795661321
How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?
I would celebrate July 3rd like Bastille Day.
Absolubtely shameful.
Behind the bombast is another, uglier story, in which Britain stands out not for its mettle in resisting the Russian regime but for aiding and abetting it. Kremlin cronies have for years used London to launder their reputations and ill-gotten gains. An army of bankers, lawyers, accountants and fixers make their own smaller fortunes through this trade.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/35fce012-8210-11ec-a9c8-2dfad00a5965?shareToken=368e53aeb65a341612448f0da476c517
Given Sue Gray's team has done all the spade work and the penalties are only fixed penalties, why should the MET take more than a week or two? They didn't take a year to investigate the thousands of other fixed penalty covid crimes.