Joe Rogan, responding to Neil Young’s objections to his podcast and Spotify, said his show has grown “out of control” and pledged to be more balanced and informed about controversial topics and guests. “If I pissed you off, I’m sorry.”
I thought you were a honest person G, that is shocking partisan crap and puts HYFUD to shame, I cannot believe you are much worse than him. Only person with a backbone in the place
Thankfully the Welsh as a whole are not as ignorant as Big G. Wales, like Scotland and London will be a Tory free zone soon...
I find it disgraceful that Big G has swung totally and defends the scumbag of Clowning Street. Very, very sad to witness.
Leaving aside our own views, do we think that MPs who have been on the fence will have shifted either way? Really hard to tell, but the absence of anyone saying so is perhaps telling.
The public, it seems to me, are now bored by the detail, but have a settled, hostile view of the Government's position. Johnson started on the right note, but by the time he'd wheeled off into Brexit and vaccination and Jimmy Saville he was back in his natural rumbustious mode. I honestly think that for most people it simply doesn't work any more.
Anyone have Alastair M's spreadsheet in the one hand and the coverage in the other?
Not enough to topple Johnson before the next election. But enough to leave the stench of criminality around him for good.
Far too early to say that.
If the Met determine the PM broke the law (considering the flat is one investigated by them) then surely that is the end of Boris.
If the Met determine the law wasn't broken, then that should be the end of the matter too.
Either way, I don't see how this can drag on until the election.
That's a reframing in his favour that doesn't work. The bar is whether he lied to Parliament not whether he gets a fixed penalty notice. If he lied to Parliament he must go. Or to put it differently, if the evidence shows he lied to Parliament about these rule-breaking parties in the middle of a pandemic but he *still* won't resign, Tory MPs simply must remove him. And if they don't the public must punish them with a shellacking in the polls and a landslide loss of seats. If none of this happens we're fucked. It's Banana Republic and total loss of self-respect here we come.
Whether the law was broken, or whether the rules were broken, is the same thing.
Guidelines are not rules. They're guidelines. Laws are the rules.
This lies to Parliament thing is weird because if the threshold to say he lied has been met, the threshold he has to go for other reasons has also already been met. So yes if he's lied to Parliament he should go, but in this case it's an unnecessary and redundant condition.
No, if he lied it doesn't follow he'll get a penalty notice. Likewise if he doesn't get a penalty notice it doesn't follow he didn't lie.
He said he had no knowledge of rule-breaking events. Will the Gray Report (when we get the proper one) and/or the Met investigation show that to be a lie?
Let's see.
If the PM knew the law was being broken by either himself or his team and did nothing about it then he should resign. Whether he'd said to the House that the law wasn't being broken or not.
Lawmakers can not be lawbreakers.
Yep. And PMs cannot be liars to parliaments. Either should be enough to end him unless he and the Tory Party wish to take up residence in the gutter.
Indeed but you're trying to set up lying to Parliament as somehow a lower or easier bar to clear than proving knowledge of lawbreaking. It isn't.
If he knew about lawbreaking and did nothing he should resign. If he doesn't, he hasn't lied.
I find the latter implausible given the evidence we know about. But at the end of the day if its not shown he knew about lawbreaking, then its not shown he lied either.
The Lying To Parliament charge is not escaped by dint of the police deciding not to issue any tickets. That doesn't scan. But, yep, I agree it looks implausible he's clean on any metric.
If the Police can't substantiate that the law was broken, then how is it shown he knew the law was broken?
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
Blackford making it about him and is going to make the headlines and deflect the story
Andrew Mitchell withdraws support
Boris is on his way out
Blackford pointedly refusing to withdraw an allegation that BJ lied to the house may not be entirely bad politics.
Yes, I'm no fan of Blackford but he's played that perfectly from the SNP's point of view. Already looking past this immediate farce and doing the groundwork on what comes next.
The plain fact is that the prime minister most certainly did lie to the house. In circumstances like this it is better just to be straightforward and not mince your words.
Oh, yes, it also has the benefit of being entirely accurate
He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.
As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.
I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.
Hoyle is the worst speaker in history , a weak lickspittle.
No way. Martin was truly horrific.
He's not great, but certainly better than Michael Martin who was totally out of his depth, and I think, better than Bercow because Bercow allowed himself to become a Dickensian pantomime caricature, and was so obviously biased and arbitrary. A Speaker should be acceptable to both sides and Bercow wasn't.
Blackford making it about him and is going to make the headlines and deflect the story
Andrew Mitchell withdraws support
Boris is on his way out
Blackford pointedly refusing to withdraw an allegation that BJ lied to the house may not be entirely bad politics.
Yes, I'm no fan of Blackford but he's played that perfectly from the SNP's point of view. Already looking past this immediate farce and doing the groundwork on what comes next.
The plain fact is that the prime minister most certainly did lie to the house. In circumstances like this it is better just to be straightforward and not mince your words.
Oh, yes, it also has the benefit of being entirely accurate
Yes, I think that is right. Blackford may be a pompous bombastic ass, but he was right to just say the plain honest truth on this occasion.
He joins the very small and highly select number of conservative MPs for whom I would vote regardless if he were standing in my constituency.
He's unlikely to be re-elected at the next GE but perhaps PB could start a Campaign to Re-Elect Aaron Bell [CREAB].
I'm not convinced he'll run if Boris is still in charge, he clearly has no confidence in him and can happily live in a career outside politics. I think he wants to get Walley's quarry sorted on a constituency level though.
He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.
As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.
I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.
No wonder he looked thunderous.
Newcastle-under-Lyme is about the most likely council loss for the Tories in May's elections.
Joe Rogan, responding to Neil Young’s objections to his podcast and Spotify, said his show has grown “out of control” and pledged to be more balanced and informed about controversial topics and guests. “If I pissed you off, I’m sorry.”
Joe Rogan, responding to Neil Young’s objections to his podcast and Spotify, said his show has grown “out of control” and pledged to be more balanced and informed about controversial topics and guests. “If I pissed you off, I’m sorry.”
I watched his actual video, it isn't actually apologising for anything. He doubled down on the academic qualifications of the two anti-vax scientists he had on.
Leaving aside our own views, do we think that MPs who have been on the fence will have shifted either way? Really hard to tell, but the absence of anyone saying so is perhaps telling.
The public, it seems to me, are now bored by the detail, but have a settled, hostile view of the Government's position. Johnson started on the right note, but by the time he'd wheeled off into Brexit and vaccination and Jimmy Saville he was back in his natural rumbustious mode. I honestly think that for most people it simply doesn't work any more.
Fatty Arbuckle had similar problem, when HIS public decided that the Funny Man was just a sick joke.
On reflection, I think Boris reached a new low with his jibe to Starmer about him not prosecuting Jimmy Saville. A fucking disgraceful non sequitur (excuse my language, but it made mild-mannered me quite cross).
I suspect many of the decent Tory MPs share my view.
NEW Senior Tory MP - not one or the usual critics - tells me: “That was a car crash. A lot of colleagues were waiting for the report to be published [before submitting letters of no confidence]. They may not wait now. He is is own worst enemy.” #SueGrayReport https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1488190396094111748
I still can't believe Priti Patel nodding in agreement with Sir Keir Starmer.
Blimey.
I might not be quite so scathing about her from now on.
She has been awfully quiet in the last few weeks and days. She notably did not come to Cummings support either when everyone else did.
He looked not just furious after he sat down but on the verge of tears.
As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.
I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.
No wonder he looked thunderous.
@Tissue_Price bought the bullshit about levelling up etc, now knowing that he was taken for a fool.
Lol, complete cock up on 5Live. Talking to a woman in Hartlepool about Johnson. She made very reasonable points and then the interviewer says “you voted conservative last time, might this affect your decision next time?”. She answers “I’m sorry, I didn’t vote Conservative last time.”
He is confident that he has broken no law and thinks that not having broken a law (as opposed to the guidelines, rules, etc) he is golden. But also perhaps realising as the afternoon proceeds that people aren't angry with him on a technicality.
He is confident that he has broken no law and thinks that not having broken a law (as opposed to the guidelines, rules, etc) he is golden. But also perhaps realising as the afternoon proceeds that people aren't angry with him on a technicality.
Any adulterer will tell you they convince themselves that it really isn't cheating and it is the other half's fault for making you cheat.
I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
Blackford making it about him and is going to make the headlines and deflect the story
Andrew Mitchell withdraws support
Boris is on his way out
Blackford pointedly refusing to withdraw an allegation that BJ lied to the house may not be entirely bad politics.
Yes, I'm no fan of Blackford but he's played that perfectly from the SNP's point of view. Already looking past this immediate farce and doing the groundwork on what comes next.
The plain fact is that the prime minister most certainly did lie to the house. In circumstances like this it is better just to be straightforward and not mince your words.
Oh, yes, it also has the benefit of being entirely accurate
Yes, I think that is right. Blackford may be a pompous bombastic ass, but he was right to just say the plain honest truth on this occasion.
Plus he now gets to spin a narrative something along these lines: You lie to parliament, the Queen, your ministers, the Speaker, the House, and the country, and the establishment rallies around you. You tell the truth in House, and they throw you out for the day. Westminster is borked, independence is the answer.
Blackford knew what he was doing, and today's clip is in the bank for future use.
Commiserations to @Tissue_Price on losing his grandmother during the pandemic and being taken for a fool by a PM who didn't stick by the rules that prevented gatherings, including those of mourners grieving together.
Wow - Boris responded to an accusation of drug taking in no 10 said, no you should look at the Labour front bench
If Blackford accusing Johnson of misleading the House is worthy of being hurled out of the HoC. Is accusing the opposition front bench of being smack-heads not unparliamentary?
I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
The back bench "hear hears" in response to Tory MP softballs getting feebler....
Yes, that was very noticeable as time went on. They’ve had the wind knocked out of them once too often.
Usually these sessions get progressively less effective but that didn't happen here. The sheer persistence of the critics and his inability to say anything but 'Wait for the Fuzz to tell me what I did' made him appear pathetic.
Blackford making it about him and is going to make the headlines and deflect the story
Andrew Mitchell withdraws support
Boris is on his way out
Blackford pointedly refusing to withdraw an allegation that BJ lied to the house may not be entirely bad politics.
Yes, I'm no fan of Blackford but he's played that perfectly from the SNP's point of view. Already looking past this immediate farce and doing the groundwork on what comes next.
The plain fact is that the prime minister most certainly did lie to the house. In circumstances like this it is better just to be straightforward and not mince your words.
Oh, yes, it also has the benefit of being entirely accurate
Yes, I think that is right. Blackford may be a pompous bombastic ass, but he was right to just say the plain honest truth on this occasion.
Plus he now gets to spin a narrative something along these lines: You lie to parliament, the Queen, your ministers, the Speaker, the House, and the country, and the establishment rallies around you. You tell the truth in House, and they throw you out for the day. Westminster is borked, independence is the answer.
Blackford knew what he was doing, and today's clip is in the bank for future use.
Especially as he offered to say 'inadvertently misled', which takes care of the mens rea issue.
I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
Sex. That's why.
Unless he's going to say he didn't know anything about these parties because he was ... er ..... elsewhere.
Blackford making it about him and is going to make the headlines and deflect the story
Andrew Mitchell withdraws support
Boris is on his way out
Blackford pointedly refusing to withdraw an allegation that BJ lied to the house may not be entirely bad politics.
Yes, I'm no fan of Blackford but he's played that perfectly from the SNP's point of view. Already looking past this immediate farce and doing the groundwork on what comes next.
The plain fact is that the prime minister most certainly did lie to the house. In circumstances like this it is better just to be straightforward and not mince your words.
Oh, yes, it also has the benefit of being entirely accurate
Yes, I think that is right. Blackford may be a pompous bombastic ass, but he was right to just say the plain honest truth on this occasion.
Plus he now gets to spin a narrative something along these lines: You lie to parliament, the Queen, your ministers, the Speaker, the House, and the country, and the establishment rallies around you. You tell the truth in House, and they throw you out for the day. Westminster is borked, independence is the answer.
Blackford knew what he was doing, and today's clip is in the bank for future use.
Indeed. A bit "feart" of him not to go the whole hog though.
I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
Sex. That's why.
Unless he's going to say he didn't know anything about these parties because he was ... er ..... elsewhere.
Which could very well be true, of course.
Honestly, it's government as Feydeau farce.
Hmm. I was thinking more of loyalty, actually. But it's such an obvious way of deflecting things that I'm surprised they haven't already agreed to try it. Though come to think of if the relentless Tory attacks on Mrs Bercow would put anyone off the idea.
Joe Rogan, responding to Neil Young’s objections to his podcast and Spotify, said his show has grown “out of control” and pledged to be more balanced and informed about controversial topics and guests. “If I pissed you off, I’m sorry.”
I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
Sex. That's why.
Unless he's going to say he didn't know anything about these parties because he was ... er ..... elsewhere.
Which could very well be true, of course.
Honestly, it's government as Feydeau farce.
Hmm. I was thinking more of loyalty, actually. But it's such an obvious way of deflecting things that I'm surprised they haven't already agreed to try it. Though come to think of if the relentless Tory attacks on Mrs Bercow would put anyone off the idea.
Well, it could be loyalty of course. But ultimately he's the PM and he should have ensured that they as a family did what everyone else tried to do.
None of these explanations will work now. Though they might have done right at the start if accompanied by genuine contrition.
Yep because Boris won't resign the only way he is leaving is if / when he is forced to do so either by Tory MPs (unlikely by the looks of it) or by the public at the next General Election.
I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
She goes to the press
Yepp. Carrie knows where all the bodies are buried.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.
I suspect quite a few. The PM could argue that he had a reasonable excuse to be in the office. Carrie none. Nor Lulu or other friends.
That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.
FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
She goes to the press
Yepp. Carrie knows where all the bodies bottles are buried.
Not surprised Hoyle is upset. Blackford made an assertion which he is not allowed to make under parliamentary rules, about another member lying to the House, but which is incontrovertible in the case of Johnson. Johnson is also not allowed to lie to the House and actually lying is obviously far more serious than making allegations, but there is no available sanction against him.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
I think Hoyle's problem is that he and everyone else nows Boris has lied to the house but there isn't 100% clear unavoidable evidence to say as much yet.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.
Comments
https://www.wsj.com/articles/spotify-publishes-content-policy-covid-19-hub-in-response-to-joe-rogan-controversy-11643572945
Foreign trips very dangerous for leaders. Perfect time for a couple.
He's unlikely to be re-elected at the next GE but perhaps PB could start a Campaign to Re-Elect Aaron Bell [CREAB].
Surely the Police will have to issue fines as the evidence is there from everything that's been reported. If that reporting is wrong, which I can't see happening, then that would be an unexpected acquittal.
As well he might be. Not just because of the emotion of recalling his family's loss. But realising that the PM's behaviour could well cost him his seat at the next election.
I don't mean that in a sarky way. Realising you and your family and your party and your voters, for whom you are working hard, have been let down by someone whom you should have been able to trust is a really awful experience.
No wonder he looked thunderous.
https://twitter.com/AnushkaAsthana/status/1488192923791466496
I'm guessing she's friendly to the PM then, though willing to call him a wally.
We can always hope...
The Daily Mail will (maybe) wade in behind him overnight with another of its 'THIS is what really matters' headlines.
What cautions me slightly against thinking he'll get away with it though is
1. He has really peed off the right (again) especially over the NI increase
and
2. Dominic Cummings. I'm not sure we've heard the last from him. Could be some further leaks imminently?
I think he wants to get Walley's quarry sorted on a constituency level though.
Simon Baynes at 1632 is wearing one, and why would I be asking what it was, if I knew, you utter dildo?
Good article in the Atlantic about his show from 2019:
https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2019/08/my-joe-rogan-experience/594802/?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share
In other words... there's nothing from the Met to stop the full Gray evidence coming out then (potentially including photos). https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1488193553243254789/photo/1
I'm sure we can all agree - much more entertaining than a boring UN Security Council meeting.
https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1488194101812117509
I suspect many of the decent Tory MPs share my view.
I doubt she voted Brexit Party.
He is confident that he has broken no law and thinks that not having broken a law (as opposed to the guidelines, rules, etc) he is golden. But also perhaps realising as the afternoon proceeds that people aren't angry with him on a technicality.
You lie to parliament, the Queen, your ministers, the Speaker, the House, and the country, and the establishment rallies around you. You tell the truth in House, and they throw you out for the day. Westminster is borked, independence is the answer.
Blackford knew what he was doing, and today's clip is in the bank for future use.
If there's going to be a war I'll let you all know (I might be a bit slow in reporting it though cus I'm listening to my indie pop)
She’s got another party on and he tends to hog the pigs-in-blanket plate.
Unless he's going to say he didn't know anything about these parties because he was ... er ..... elsewhere.
Which could very well be true, of course.
Honestly, it's government as Feydeau farce.
https://twitter.com/benrileysmith/status/1488196241062305792
Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):
Labour 40% (-1)
Conservative 33% (-1)
Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
Green 6% (+1)
Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
Reform UK 3% (–)
Other 2% (+1)
Changes +/- 24 Jan
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505
Is he taking you by surprise with his utter shamelessness?
His defence was very robust today. He clearly doesn't believe he has done anything wrong.
None of these explanations will work now. Though they might have done right at the start if accompanied by genuine contrition.
Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
Well, that's one way of getting out of cheering Johnson's statement.
The system is at fault and Blackford (justifiably in my view) is exploiting this failure.
Which means Parliament can't do anything about it. Personally I would be given Blackford a 9 day ban - because it would leave 10+ days as the only possible punishment when Boris is found to be lying and 10 days triggers a recall petition.