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The first findings from the Grey report don’t look good for Johnson – politicalbetting.com

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  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Heathener said:

    This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8

    Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson. He wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in her Cabinet.

    Huge queue to get into The Strangers' Galley Commons, joined it but didn't get in. Atmosphere outside Palace of Westminster was electric. Am sure I was asked for my opinion by a TV station, but doubt it was ever used.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.
    Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
    Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.

    Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter
    Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.
    Edmonton, population over 1 million, is north of us and therefore darker than us in winter too as well as colder
    One presumes, finding Boris indefensible, that you have decided to focus on Canadian weather data?
  • malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.
    Yes.

    I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
    And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
    Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.
    Afternoon, Malc.

    I miss Scotland terribly as I haven’t been able to get up there for going on years now. I’m looking forward to the Scottish Tartan Parade here in NYC in April which will be hosted by Karen Gillan.

    @TSE, I extend you a standing invitation.
    Karen Gillan you say.

    I shall be there.

    My own weakness in life is redheads.
    Are you a fan of Lloyd Russell-Moyle then?
    Female redheads rock.

    They are my Kryptonite.

    They could get me to eat a Hawaiian pizza, that's their power over me.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,060
    Well, that was a busy old day, one way and another.

    I do hope nothing exciting happened in politics while I was running around after all these other things.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    I watched too much of PMQs.

    But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.

    Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”

    It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.

    Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.

    But what can you do, when calling a liar a liar is agaist the rules, and you only get one question and no follow ups?

    The point about the lie on 8 Dec in pmqs about the 13 Nov party was hammered thoroughly home
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,161
    Watching episode 4 of the Watchmen. Still to work out what the hell is going on but I am fascinated by some superb characters and the complete weirdness.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,442
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.
    Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
    Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.

    Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter
    Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.
    Edmonton, population over 1 million, is north of us and therefore darker than us in winter too as well as colder
    Not anywhere North of Manchester.
  • HYUFD said:

    Angela Richardson resigns as Gove’s PPS over her “deep disappointment” at Partygate:



    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488219064422047753

    MP for Guildford at risk of going LD
    Yes. It seems the burghers of the stockbroker belt have a bit more moral fibre than you.
    Officers have cracked and gone bolshie, but sergeants mess stays True Blue?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 9,086

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    You OK?

    SKS was superb, and the 54 letters haven't not gone in yet
    He really wasn't. Aaron was heartfelt and brilliant, as was Mrs May. Mitchell was effective.

    Starmer, Phillips, Blackford and Baker were particularly disappointing.

    Johnson unfortunately held his own, whether it was good enough remains to be seen.
    Thought Starmer was excellent.

    There was bit where he went all patriotic and it wasn't cringe at all - difficult to pull off.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Redfield and Wilton.

    Westminster Voting Intention (31 Jan):

    Labour 40% (-1)
    Conservative 33% (-1)
    Liberal Democrat 11% (–)
    Green 6% (+1)
    Scottish National Party 4% (-1)
    Reform UK 3% (–)
    Other 2% (+1)

    Changes +/- 24 Jan

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1488195386800021505

    Still Labour lead under 10% then and still only a hung parliament.

    Electoral Calculus gives Labour 300, Conservatives 255 and LDs 19 on the new boundaries
    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/fcgi-bin/usercode.py?scotcontrol=Y&CON=33&LAB=40&LIB=11&Reform=3&Green=6&UKIP=&TVCON=&TVLAB=&TVLIB=&TVReform=&TVGreen=&TVUKIP=&SCOTCON=18.3&SCOTLAB=20.2&SCOTLIB=6.6&SCOTReform=0.9&SCOTGreen=3&SCOTUKIP=&SCOTNAT=48&display=AllChanged&regorseat=(none)&boundary=2019nbbase
    Hm. That doesn't take into account Mr Johnson's scintillating performance at PMQ today.
    Exactly. Wait till this sinks in.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    DavidL said:

    Watching episode 4 of the Watchmen. Still to work out what the hell is going on but I am fascinated by some superb characters and the complete weirdness.

    Starts good and gets rapidly more confusing and bollocks. Sorry.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690
    edited January 2022

    I watched too much of PMQs.

    But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.

    Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”

    It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.

    Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.

    Wera Hobhouse was a bit of a wtf moment too.
    Wera 'We should listen to health concerns about 5G' Hobhouse being a bit WTF, you say?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,141
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.
    Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
    Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.

    Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter
    Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.
    Edmonton, population over 1 million, is north of us and therefore darker than us in winter too as well as colder
    Edmonton is 53 N so about the same latutude as Dublin or Manchester. Toronto is about the same latitude as Marseille.
  • MangoMango Posts: 1,019
    HYUFD said:



    At the moment which Nato leader is doing most to stand up to Putin? Not the EU President, Macron, Scholz or Biden but Boris, PM of post Brexit Britain.

    Under Boris post Brexit Britain also has agreed a defence alliance with Biden's US and Morrison's Australia to contain Xi's China

    Might he publish the Russia report then?

    Face it, your party and your entire view of the economy has had its legs open for oligarchs and dirty money of all shades for decades now.

    They will bluster, but they will not do anything to actually organise and preserve liberal democratic solidarity. Mainly because they don't really understand it themselves.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,765
    edited January 2022

    DavidL said:

    Watching episode 4 of the Watchmen. Still to work out what the hell is going on but I am fascinated by some superb characters and the complete weirdness.

    Starts good and gets rapidly more confusing and bollocks. Sorry.
    It does all brilliantly come together in the end though. I loved it.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    You OK?

    SKS was superb, and the 54 letters haven't not gone in yet
    He really wasn't. Aaron was heartfelt and brilliant, as was Mrs May. Mitchell was effective.

    Starmer, Phillips, Blackford and Baker were particularly disappointing.

    Johnson unfortunately held his own, whether it was good enough remains to be seen.
    I don't buy your 'unfortunately' adverb. You work for Boris Johnson, don't you? Admit it?

    No one I know thinks Johnson was good today and everyone I know, right or left, thinks SKS was dignified and got the tone just right. Even Priti Patel was nodding in agreement with him.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690
    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8

    Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.

    A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.
    IDK, perhaps in times to come random references to paedophiles will be considered the height of sophisticated debate.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,518
    edited January 2022
    The thing about David Gawke's idea the MP's should act now as the Gray report when published will de damning anyway, is : what if the report isn't out for ages ?
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    PM announced intention to involve Backbenchers much more in new policy going forward using Sir Graham Brady as chair of new unit

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488227431534276608
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724

    Carnyx said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.
    Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
    Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.

    Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter
    Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.
    I remember a summer holiday staying in perhaps the UK's most northerly B&B on UNst on Shetland. The sheep were waking us up at some ridiculous time like 3 am when they woke. And bright sun for our after dinner walks high in the sky. But then I thought, what's this going to be like in winter ...?
    Easy to see (but not after 3pm in December) what drove Scots to such Banana Belts as Nova Scotia and Patagonia.
    Patagonia was the Welsh, on a point of order. How Green Was My Valley and all that, surely.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,538
    HYUFD said:

    "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"

    Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.

    And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.

    EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".

    Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.

    So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?
    Yes, you're getting the hang of this at last.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    edited January 2022
    kle4 said:

    I watched too much of PMQs.

    But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.

    Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”

    It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.

    Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.

    Wera Hobhouse was a bit of a wtf moment too.
    Wera 'We should listen to health concerns about 5G' Hobhouse being a bit WTF, you say?
    I think the 5G criticisms are overdone.

    The Lib Dems had a chance to focus on the shoddiness of the process here:

    An inquiry that reports to the lead “suspect”.

    A deliberate strategy to delay and obfuscate the House and public.

    A Met investigation which may take months or even years to report.

    Allegations of lying to the House which now might never be definitively addressed.

    The resultant feeling of powerless in the country as leaders get off scot-free.

    But they went with the standard, “my constituent missed granny’s funeral, won’t the PM resign” stuff. Which we’ve had.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690
    IshmaelZ said:

    PM announced intention to involve Backbenchers much more in new policy going forward using Sir Graham Brady as chair of new unit

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488227431534276608

    Classic 'buy off the rebels' move, which always begs the question of why they hadn't been involved previously when I am 100% certain No.10 would claim it had been listening to them already. But the sort of thing backbenchers love, so worth a few letter retractions perhaps.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    edited January 2022
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8

    Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.

    A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.
    IDK, perhaps in times to come random references to paedophiles will be considered the height of sophisticated debate.
    People read more then and had a wider vocabulary on average as a result.

    In the late 1970s there was no Internet, no social media, no iPhones and only 3 TV channels
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,733
    Just caught up. How can the Tories keep this Trumpian leader in post?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,060
    IshmaelZ said:

    PM announced intention to involve Backbenchers much more in new policy going forward using Sir Graham Brady as chair of new unit

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488227431534276608

    Why? It's not just his policies, albeit some of them are shit. The issue is he can't deliver them because he's incompetent, and he can't compensate with inspirational leadership because he's a mendacious liar whose credibility is totally shot.

    That won't change because the people who have input into them has changed.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    Tweet
    See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Alastair Meeks
    @AlastairMeeks
    The absence of any more Tory backbench questions is telling a story.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1488196115044487173

    Bloody right, is this the 5th SNP er in a row?

    #ConBackbenchersBottledIt
  • rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    It was actually quite sunny in southern England today too in the day.

    Temperature in Winnipeg at the moment however is -9 degrees Celsius.

    In London it is 7 degrees celcius
    Winterpeg, its denizens call it, is not really a great compare for London.
    I once met a couple of Canadians in Oslo, in winter, who didn't think it was particularly cold.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,780

    kle4 said:

    I watched too much of PMQs.

    But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.

    Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”

    It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.

    Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.

    Wera Hobhouse was a bit of a wtf moment too.
    Wera 'We should listen to health concerns about 5G' Hobhouse being a bit WTF, you say?
    I think the 5G criticisms are overdone.

    The Lib Dems had a chance to focus on the shoddiness of the process here:

    An inquiry that reports to the lead “suspect”.

    A deliberate strategy to delay and obfuscate the House and public.

    A Met investigation which may take months or even years to report.

    Allegations of lying to the House which now might never be definitively addressed.

    The resultant feeling of powerless in the country as leaders get off scot-free.

    But they went with the standard, “my constituent missed granny’s funeral, won’t the PM resign” stuff. Which we’ve had.
    Yes he’s shameless it won’t work. But it plays well on their social media account.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    PM announced intention to involve Backbenchers much more in new policy going forward using Sir Graham Brady as chair of new unit

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488227431534276608

    Why? It's not just his policies, albeit some of them are shit. The issue is he can't deliver them because he's incompetent, and he can't compensate with inspirational leadership because he's a mendacious liar whose credibility is totally shot.

    That won't change because the people who have input into them has changed.
    No, obv. I was taking it as an invitation to Sir G to lose a couple of letters
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    HYUFD said:

    "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"

    Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.

    And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.

    EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".

    Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.

    So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?
    Have you never visited France or Italy?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241

    The thing about David Gawke's idea the MP's should act now as the Gray report when published will de damning anyway, is : what if the report isn't out for ages ?

    Rebel MPs had reason to wait until today, since it would have been difficult to get the required support with no 10 able to play the ‘wait for Gray’ defence.

    Now that Gray has come out fairly bad - with a pointer of worse to come - there is less reason to wait.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045
    moonshine said:

    dr_spyn said:
    https://twitter.com/michaelgove/status/1488200463199653888?s=21

    Meanwhile lick spittle Gove is quick out the traps to stand behind the PM.
    But we know he doesn't mean it. When Gove stands behind you is the time to be worried
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Michael Foot is on here at about the 5 minute point:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqzIZVJOQdk

    Very funny! Foot also didn't use notes in the Commons. Until he went rather senile he was a brilliant orator.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Arguments about the climates of various cities are absolutely pointless given that climate data for these places is freely available online for anyone who can be bothered to make even a cursory google search.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    IshmaelZ said:

    Tweet
    See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Alastair Meeks
    @AlastairMeeks
    The absence of any more Tory backbench questions is telling a story.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1488196115044487173

    Bloody right, is this the 5th SNP er in a row?

    #ConBackbenchersBottledIt
    Boris is playing his party like a violin
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,985
    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    Gosh did you really think Starmer was poor? I very much didn't. That for me was pitch perfect.
    I'm not sure what Mexicanpete was watching to be honest.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"

    Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.

    And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.

    EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".

    Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.

    So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?
    Have you never visited France or Italy?
    Bit unfair. HYUFD was urging us to be patriotic post-Brexit - something along the lines of taking our dirty weekends in Swansea or Skegness or somewhere like that the other week. Maybe even Brighton for all I know.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    edited January 2022

    malcolmg said:

    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Toronto has brighter winters than London.

    I’m finding New York very cold but the sunshine is glorious; I much prefer it.
    When it comes to grey hardly anywhere beats the UK.
    Yes.

    I frankly came to dread the U.K. winter.
    And that was London. Christ knows what it’s like in, say, Glasgow.
    Southwest of Glasgow at coast is very mild , can be a bit wet but extremely pleasant. Plenty of nice bracing days , bit of sunshine and a few gales but perfectly lovely. Days are short mind you but you get bonus of only a few hours dark in summer so cannot complain.
    Afternoon, Malc.

    I miss Scotland terribly as I haven’t been able to get up there for going on years now. I’m looking forward to the Scottish Tartan Parade here in NYC in April which will be hosted by Karen Gillan.

    @TSE, I extend you a standing invitation.
    Should eb a good day out, pleasant host as well. Must be big change for you in NY with all that snow just now. One thing I miss nowadays , we used to get lots of snow when I was a boy. I loved it when I was in California , wintger at Lake Taho was brilliant.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,045
    Ch4 News is excellent. Dorries is crucifying herrself and her hapless boss.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    IshmaelZ said:

    Tweet
    See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Alastair Meeks
    @AlastairMeeks
    The absence of any more Tory backbench questions is telling a story.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1488196115044487173

    Bloody right, is this the 5th SNP er in a row?

    #ConBackbenchersBottledIt
    Lol - raging
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690
    edited January 2022

    kle4 said:

    I watched too much of PMQs.

    But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.

    Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”

    It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.

    Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.

    Wera Hobhouse was a bit of a wtf moment too.
    Wera 'We should listen to health concerns about 5G' Hobhouse being a bit WTF, you say?
    I think the 5G criticisms are overdone.
    Oh, I suspect her position was just that a lot of local people were objecting and so she wanted to make sure she was on their side, it's what MPs generally do with planning applications after all as it is not their responsibility, and the official reasons for objecting would stick to actually defendable ones. But nevertheless a lot of the objections were nutty 5G ones and she either believed the same, or simply didn't want to upset people who did believe it, which to me amounts to about the same thing, intellectually and morally.

    She was either being stupid or cowardly.

    Her clarification shows she was probably being cowardly, as in 'There's no evidence it is unsafe, but please don't do it anyway just in case because my constituents think it is unsafe and I want their votes at some point'

    Asked by the BBC to detail her concerns about health, Ms Hobhouse said she had spent time weighing up the available evidence and conceded that all the official guidance was that it was safe.

    But she said that "given the widespread concern and conversations I have had with Bath residents who claim to be extra vulnerable, I believe it may be worth applying a precautionary principle on where masts are located whilst further studies are being undertaken".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55399513
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,085
    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,780
    IanB2 said:

    The thing about David Gawke's idea the MP's should act now as the Gray report when published will de damning anyway, is : what if the report isn't out for ages ?

    Rebel MPs had reason to wait until today, since it would have been difficult to get the required support with no 10 able to play the ‘wait for Gray’ defence.

    Now that Gray has come out fairly bad - with a pointer of worse to come - there is less reason to wait.
    If a new PM and team is already in place with a big broom, the fangs will have been pulled from the final report as regards damage to the Conservative Party.

    If on the other hand this shower are still in charge when it’s released, the party photos will be the meme event of the year and quite probably still be remembered at the next election.

    Personally I think it’s politically ruinous for MPs to wait much longer.
  • ApplicantApplicant Posts: 3,379
    IshmaelZ said:

    PM announced intention to involve Backbenchers much more in new policy going forward using Sir Graham Brady as chair of new unit

    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1488227431534276608

    The last refuge...
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    edited January 2022

    Arguments about the climates of various cities are absolutely pointless given that climate data for these places is freely available online for anyone who can be bothered to make even a cursory google search.

    What you’ll observe though, is no argument per se.

    Just HYUFD posting random data into the void. It’s a kind of dead cat manoeuvre to avoid confronting the gaping lack of conscience.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8

    Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.

    A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.
    IDK, perhaps in times to come random references to paedophiles will be considered the height of sophisticated debate.
    People read more then and had a wider vocabulary on average as a result.

    In the late 1970s there was no Internet, no social media, no iPhones and only 3 TV channels
    But heh at least we've got emojis :smile:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    As I keep saying, Boris is going nowhere. But that’s because of the rank cowardice of the PCP, not Starmer, who was excellent.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,442
    ping said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Tweet
    See new Tweets
    Conversation
    Alastair Meeks
    @AlastairMeeks
    The absence of any more Tory backbench questions is telling a story.

    https://twitter.com/AlastairMeeks/status/1488196115044487173

    Bloody right, is this the 5th SNP er in a row?

    #ConBackbenchersBottledIt
    Boris is playing his party like a violin
    If only he had music lessons as an alibi...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    Michael Fabricant says Boris' address to the 1922 tonight was like a Billy Graham evangelical love in


    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1488229598903078912?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw
  • Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but GRAY has been misspelt in the Thread title!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690

    Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but GRAY has been misspelt in the Thread title!

    No it hasn't, she has spelled her surname incorrectly.
  • Boris staying on might actually guarantee a Tory defeat in two years. Discuss.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,733
    Starmer was excellent today. But today is not about the opposition. It’s about Tory MPs and what they stand for.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Heathener said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    You OK?

    SKS was superb, and the 54 letters haven't not gone in yet
    He really wasn't. Aaron was heartfelt and brilliant, as was Mrs May. Mitchell was effective.

    Starmer, Phillips, Blackford and Baker were particularly disappointing.

    Johnson unfortunately held his own, whether it was good enough remains to be seen.
    I don't buy your 'unfortunately' adverb. You work for Boris Johnson, don't you? Admit it?

    No one I know thinks Johnson was good today and everyone I know, right or left, thinks SKS was dignified and got the tone just right. Even Priti Patel was nodding in agreement with him.
    Boris better than Sir Keir today is also my analysis.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690
    edited January 2022
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8

    Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.

    A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.
    IDK, perhaps in times to come random references to paedophiles will be considered the height of sophisticated debate.
    People read more then and had a wider vocabulary on average as a result.

    In the late 1970s there was no Internet, no social media, no iPhones and only 3 TV channels
    But Boris is highly educated and well read, is he not? Knowledgable of the oratorical techniques of Ancient Greece. So what is his excuse?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,220
    .

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    Gosh did you really think Starmer was poor? I very much didn't. That for me was pitch perfect.
    I'm not sure what Mexicanpete was watching to be honest.
    I wasn't, I was listening on 5Live in Tesco Brewery Field carpark in Bridgend. I'd just paid my tax bill for this half year, so I wasn't in the best of spirits, then Johnson came out swinging and the rebels including Baker all fell in behind him.

    Maybe I am reading it wrong, but he looks safe to me
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but GRAY has been misspelt in the Thread title!

    OMG Sunyl that's awful. I say we take off and nuke OGH from orbit.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,442
    Roger said:

    Ch4 News is excellent. Dorries is crucifying herrself and her hapless boss.

    Yes, it was hilarious.

    Very hard to find anyone Big Dog is loyal to, but Dorries is his little poodle.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,434
    HYUFD said:

    Michael Fabricant says Boris' address to the 1922 tonight was like a Billy Graham evangelical love in


    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1488229598903078912?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

    Suspect he is confused; he means Jim Jones.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    edited January 2022
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Heathener said:

    This was the moment when Jim Callaghan lost the Vote of No Confidence and the rest, as they say, is history. Margaret Thatcher was elected Prime Minister.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBJFssfH2Z8

    Maggie would have been revolted by Boris Johnson.

    A recording of that debate is knocking around somewhere on iPlayer and/or the Internet, and it’s a cracking listen. It really brings home how far debating standards have fallen in the Commons over recent decades. Despite his poor reputation, Callaghan puts in a tremendous speech, as does Mrs T.
    IDK, perhaps in times to come random references to paedophiles will be considered the height of sophisticated debate.
    People read more then and had a wider vocabulary on average as a result.

    In the late 1970s there was no Internet, no social media, no iPhones and only 3 TV channels
    But Boris is highly educated and well read, is he not? Knowledgable of the oratorical techniques of Ancient Greece. So what is his excuse?
    And, just as much to the point, the Roman Senate. Knowing how to prosecute or defend utter crooks and criminals in the highest style still read and studied a thousand years later. Vide M. Tullius Cicero.

    On reflection: accusing the opposition of aiding and abetting paedophilia, with a fold of his toga draped over his head in mock horror, is pretty much Ciceronian.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690

    HYUFD said:

    Michael Fabricant says Boris' address to the 1922 tonight was like a Billy Graham evangelical love in


    https://twitter.com/Mike_Fabricant/status/1488229598903078912?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

    Suspect he is confused; he means Jim Jones.
    Was 'Billy Graham evangelical love in' not a criticism then? Because it seems like it should be.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,195
    Carnyx said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"

    Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.

    And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.

    EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".

    Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.

    So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?
    Have you never visited France or Italy?
    Bit unfair. HYUFD was urging us to be patriotic post-Brexit - something along the lines of taking our dirty weekends in Swansea or Skegness or somewhere like that the other week. Maybe even Brighton for all I know.
    That brings back great memories of dirty weekends in Brighton with a Japanese lady.,,,
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,518
    edited January 2022
    Heathener said:

    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.

    Grieve was an excellent parliamentarian however, and he was also the chief remainer. May tried to bypass parliament several times, which is why he came in. Compared to Boris, though, she's Mother Teresa.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724

    Carnyx said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"

    Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.

    And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.

    EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".

    Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.

    So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?
    Have you never visited France or Italy?
    Bit unfair. HYUFD was urging us to be patriotic post-Brexit - something along the lines of taking our dirty weekends in Swansea or Skegness or somewhere like that the other week. Maybe even Brighton for all I know.
    That brings back great memories of dirty weekends in Brighton with a Japanese lady.,,,
    Did you have kippers on the Brighton Belle?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,780

    Heathener said:

    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.

    Grieve was an excellent parliamentarian however, and he was also the chief remainer. May tried to bypass parliament many times, which is why he came in.
    The appalling actions of Grieve and co directly led to the elevation of Johnson to PM.
  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,333
    JBriskin3 said:

    Heathener said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    You OK?

    SKS was superb, and the 54 letters haven't not gone in yet
    He really wasn't. Aaron was heartfelt and brilliant, as was Mrs May. Mitchell was effective.

    Starmer, Phillips, Blackford and Baker were particularly disappointing.

    Johnson unfortunately held his own, whether it was good enough remains to be seen.
    I don't buy your 'unfortunately' adverb. You work for Boris Johnson, don't you? Admit it?

    No one I know thinks Johnson was good today and everyone I know, right or left, thinks SKS was dignified and got the tone just right. Even Priti Patel was nodding in agreement with him.
    Boris better than Sir Keir today is also my analysis.
    And I'm sure that you believe this has nothing to do with Sir Keir being more amenable to a Section 30 order than Boris is...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,506
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    HYUFD said:

    Applicant said:

    Between Boris Johnson's performance today and that poll finding I have lost faith in my country.

    Take my advice.

    Emigrate.
    Tempted to move to France, Canada, or Australia.
    Well, you can knock Canada off the list - that's where the Hawaiian pizza was invented.
    If you think our winters are cold and dark, try Canada's
    Vancouver isn't cold. Nor is populated Canada darker. It's much further south than us.
    Most Canadians live south of Seattle. One of my favourite facts.
    Winnipeg has over 600,000 people and is -6 Celsius today. Edmonton has over 1 million people and is -15 degrees Celsius today.

    Parts of populated Canada certainly do get very cold in winter
    Nevertheless you also said “dark”. Sunset in Winnipeg today will be, in local time, a whole half hour later than mine - and I have one of the longest winter daylight spans in the UK.
    Edmonton, population over 1 million, is north of us and therefore darker than us in winter too as well as colder
    Edmonton is 53.56°N.
    That's a lot more south than me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,690

    Heathener said:

    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.

    Grieve was an excellent parliamentarian however, and he was also the chief remainer. May tried to bypass parliament several times, which is why he came in. Compared to Boris, though, she's Mother Teresa.
    And look where his admitted intellect and parliamentary schemes got him.

    He bet all and lost, rather than use his skills to facilitate something less risky and damaging. That doesn't make him responsible for how things turned out, but he may have been advised to focus his energies more effectively.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,518
    edited January 2022
    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.

    Grieve was an excellent parliamentarian however, and he was also the chief remainer. May tried to bypass parliament many times, which is why he came in.
    The appalling actions of Grieve and co directly led to the elevation of Johnson to PM.
    No they didn't, but this is a common rewriting of history on the Brexiter side , that we've discussed many times on here. What made an extreme populist prime minister inevitable was in fact the actions of May in gradually excluding all softer Brexit options.

    Grieve wasn't even that interested in the debate , relative to later, until she started talking not only about bypassing parliament but going ahead with a no-deal. This was an extreme populist offer she would never be able to implement herself, because she's ultimately just not that sort of politician, as we've seen today more happily.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,538
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"

    Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.

    And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.

    EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".

    Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.

    So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?
    Have you never visited France or Italy?
    Bit unfair. HYUFD was urging us to be patriotic post-Brexit - something along the lines of taking our dirty weekends in Swansea or Skegness or somewhere like that the other week. Maybe even Brighton for all I know.
    That brings back great memories of dirty weekends in Brighton with a Japanese lady.,,,
    Did you have kippers on the Brighton Belle?
    That's a bit personal. And anyway, she was Japanese, not French.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    edited January 2022
    Opinium have done a snap poll this evening after the Gray report.

    50% of Tory voters still want Boris to stay PM, 44% to go

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,985
    edited January 2022

    .

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    Gosh did you really think Starmer was poor? I very much didn't. That for me was pitch perfect.
    I'm not sure what Mexicanpete was watching to be honest.
    I wasn't, I was listening on 5Live in Tesco Brewery Field carpark in Bridgend. I'd just paid my tax bill for this half year, so I wasn't in the best of spirits, then Johnson came out swinging and the rebels including Baker all fell in behind him.

    Maybe I am reading it wrong, but he looks safe to me
    He is safe for a while, I would agree, but only because the people with the power of sanction are his own MPs. It is still "emperor's new clothes". Even when he denies a party happened on the 13th November, and then the police say they are investigating a party in his flat on that day, yet he still won't admit it. Surely this is a job for the Standards Committee. You obviously never saw him grinning and laughing and taking the piss on screen.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,506
    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,087

    TOPPING said:

    Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.

    Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.

    More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.

    I don't ever remember him being a Johnson apologist? Correct me if I am wrong?
    Well he is in his party of government. That's a pretty strong endorsement and would have had to sign up to the Brexit pledge.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Opinium
    @OpiniumResearch
    2) The public think the report is bad, but no worse than expected.

    61% of all voters say it was bad, but expected it to be.
    63% of Tory voters say it is bad, but they expected it to be.

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488233060898414593
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.

    Grieve was an excellent parliamentarian however, and he was also the chief remainer. May tried to bypass parliament many times, which is why he came in.
    The appalling actions of Grieve and co directly led to the elevation of Johnson to PM.
    No they didn't, but this is a common rewriting of history on the Brexiter side , that we've discussed many times on here. What made an extreme populist prime minister inevitable was in fact the actions of May in gradually excluding all softer Brexit options.
    If May was still PM we'd still be negotiating our terms of release.

    Got Brexit Done. Signed off Section 30 letter.

    If Boris is indeed Toast I will remember him fondly.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    Opinium have done a snap poll this evening after the Gray report.

    50% of Tory voters still want Boris to stay PM, 44% to go

    https://twitter.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1488232558793945089?s=20&t=Fi3Wi04ksxsUmicRr2k1Tw

    Terrible result for Johnson!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Tres said:

    HYUFD said:

    "He’s made us all look corrupt and made the country feel like fools"

    Any party that makes the likes of Boris Johnson - or Donald Trump - its leader IS corrupt, by definition.

    And any country that elects their like, such as the UK - or USA - and puts them into power is ipso facto a pack of fools.

    EDIT - I point this out, mainly in derision of the "made us" in the chastened Tory MPs remark. Much like Joe Rogan "sorry if I pissed you off".

    Or any alleged "apology" ever uttered (apparently) by Boris Johnson.

    So that makes Italy which elected Berlusconi or France which elected Sarkozy and Fillon, all convicted criminals, corrupt too?
    Have you never visited France or Italy?
    Bit unfair. HYUFD was urging us to be patriotic post-Brexit - something along the lines of taking our dirty weekends in Swansea or Skegness or somewhere like that the other week. Maybe even Brighton for all I know.
    That brings back great memories of dirty weekends in Brighton with a Japanese lady.,,,
    Did you have kippers on the Brighton Belle?
    You might be able to find out soon:
    http://brightonbelle.com/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,414
    edited January 2022
    dixiedean said:

    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022

    All voters don't get a say until the next general election as we have a Tory majority government.

    Until then only the views of Tory MPs, Tory members and Tory voters matter as to whether Boris stays PM
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,615
    I’ve just realised who JRM is - he’s Lord Haw Haw…..


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.

    Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.

    More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.

    I don't ever remember him being a Johnson apologist? Correct me if I am wrong?
    Well he is in his party of government. That's a pretty strong endorsement and would have had to sign up to the Brexit pledge.
    Goodness know what you made of Starmer serving in a cabinet under anti-Semite Corbyn!
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,518
    edited January 2022
    JBriskin3 said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.

    Grieve was an excellent parliamentarian however, and he was also the chief remainer. May tried to bypass parliament many times, which is why he came in.
    The appalling actions of Grieve and co directly led to the elevation of Johnson to PM.
    No they didn't, but this is a common rewriting of history on the Brexiter side , that we've discussed many times on here. What made an extreme populist prime minister inevitable was in fact the actions of May in gradually excluding all softer Brexit options.
    If May was still PM we'd still be negotiating our terms of release.

    Got Brexit Done. Signed off Section 30 letter.

    If Boris is indeed Toast I will remember him fondly.
    That's why she couldn't have been, as I was mentioning. She set an extremely populist agenda in motion but was just inherently incapable of delivering it, clearing the way inevitably for our friend Bozo, the most nakedly populist of the main candidates, to come in.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    edited January 2022

    JBriskin3 said:

    Heathener said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Heathener said:

    rpjs said:

    IanB2 said:

    Labour must be reviewing whether now is the right time to table a parliamentary confidence vote. They need to judge whether the momentum will have been lost by the time the Met eventually decide to take no action.

    How could the likes of Hon Mr Bell vote confidence in Johnson after today?

    They will not vote for a GE
    There's no need for a Parliamentary VONC. The letters to the 1922 committee procedure is purely an internal party matter.
    It was suggested Labour call a confidence vote and some conservatives would vote with Labour.

    That is not the same as the 54 letters to the 1922
    I don't like Johnson and I want him to go but one has to admire his comprehensive takedown of Starmer was superb. First the Saville put down which the BBC are loving.

    Big Dog

    IshmaelZ said:

    Carnyx said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I do wonder how many of the breaches of the rules - let alone the guidelines - were by Carrie and her friends.

    I suspect

    That may explain some of his behaviour. He simply cannot - or dare not - admit something which would put his wife in the frame.

    FWIW, this is where my thinking has gone. Hence, the 'check the official diaries' comment earlier.
    I've just had a horrible vision of BoJo stifling tears and saying that he has been acting all along to protect his wife and that he personally had no involvement in any wrongdoing..
    Why can't he just blame her? Gets the heatd off him, and she's not official any more than, say, a Speaker's wife is.
    She goes to the press
    Ye
    Bo
    You keep repeating this on here every few minutes but that doesn't make it any the more true.

    No one else, literally no one else, thinks it was a smart move. The jibe lowered the tone still further and by linking Savile to the debate today, the impression people come away with is not what you think. It's of two disresputable people who got off without investigation.

    And I'm sure you don't really mean to be saying that the BBC loved the Savile comment. I mean, apart from not knowing how to spell his name, do you not know anything about the background to Jimmy Savile and the BBC?
    It scythed Starmer down. Starmer was poor today. Mrs May, and Tissue price were excellent.

    I thought Johnson came out swinging, and whether you and I might be disappointed that he saved his bacon, he did, because there are still not 54 MPs who were concerned enough to put their letters to Brady
    You OK?

    SKS was superb, and the 54 letters haven't not gone in yet
    He really wasn't. Aaron was heartfelt and brilliant, as was Mrs May. Mitchell was effective.

    Starmer, Phillips, Blackford and Baker were particularly disappointing.

    Johnson unfortunately held his own, whether it was good enough remains to be seen.
    I don't buy your 'unfortunately' adverb. You work for Boris Johnson, don't you? Admit it?

    No one I know thinks Johnson was good today and everyone I know, right or left, thinks SKS was dignified and got the tone just right. Even Priti Patel was nodding in agreement with him.
    Boris better than Sir Keir today is also my analysis.
    And I'm sure that you believe this has nothing to do with Sir Keir being more amenable to a Section 30 order than Boris is...
    I'm a coalitionista so more favourable to Tory than Lab.

    I'd vote for the Devil himself of the Satanic party Incorporated if it meant kicking out one SNP Type MP/MSP
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,087

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Thing is we're all saying how amazing Aaron Bell is but was he not paying attention on PB. Plenty of people have been saying for ages on here how manifestly unfit Boris is for office.

    Has it only just dawned on @Tissue_Price.

    More fool him if so and yes sorry because I realise he is s PB icon.

    I don't ever remember him being a Johnson apologist? Correct me if I am wrong?
    Well he is in his party of government. That's a pretty strong endorsement and would have had to sign up to the Brexit pledge.
    Goodness know what you made of Starmer serving in a cabinet under anti-Semite Corbyn!
    Unforgivable.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712

    Nick Gullon
    @EchoNickG
    · 8m
    Tomorrow's @TheNorthernEcho

    Boris Johnson:

    A failure of leadership

    A failure of judgment

    Continuing to fail our country

    #TomorrowsPapersToday

    image
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,985
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022

    All voters don't get a say until the next general election as we have a Tory majority government.

    Until then only the views of Tory MPs, Tory members and Tory voters matter as to whether Boris stays PM
    Classic, the rest of the world doesn't count.
  • We on to Carrie's Abba Victory party yet ...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712
    dixiedean said:

    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022

    11% of people are happy to have someone who lies to them as PM?

    On 1 level I'm not surprised but Give me strength
  • HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022

    All voters don't get a say until the next general election as we have a Tory majority government.

    Until then only the views of Tory MPs, Tory members and Tory voters matter as to whether Boris stays PM
    Classic, the rest of the world doesn't count.
    Well, no.

    Obvious point is obvious.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,045
    I don’t think the papers will be good for Johnson.

    MPs can go into meetings have lap up the rubbish Johnson serves up. But that doesn’t change the mood of the public, whom ultimately they will have to face
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022

    All voters don't get a say until the next general election as we have a Tory majority government.

    Until then only the views of Tory MPs, Tory members and Tory voters matter as to whether Boris stays PM
    And the Police and the Crown Prosecution Service.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,797
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I watched too much of PMQs.

    But putting aside the highlights - Keir, Blackford, May, and Bell - one observation is how generally ineffective Opposition MPs were.

    Simply calling for Boris to resign doesn’t really do much. Of course Boris is not going to say, “You are right Nadia Whitthome, I will resign now.”

    It would have been far more profitable to hammer at the bizarre inconsistencies both in the PM’s testimony so far, and indeed the process of inquiry.

    Abbot had a creditable go, but there were only one or two others. Davey utterly sunk without trace, not sure what he was trying to do today.

    Wera Hobhouse was a bit of a wtf moment too.
    Wera 'We should listen to health concerns about 5G' Hobhouse being a bit WTF, you say?
    I think the 5G criticisms are overdone.
    Oh, I suspect her position was just that a lot of local people were objecting and so she wanted to make sure she was on their side, it's what MPs generally do with planning applications after all as it is not their responsibility, and the official reasons for objecting would stick to actually defendable ones. But nevertheless a lot of the objections were nutty 5G ones and she either believed the same, or simply didn't want to upset people who did believe it, which to me amounts to about the same thing, intellectually and morally.

    She was either being stupid or cowardly.

    Her clarification shows she was probably being cowardly, as in 'There's no evidence it is unsafe, but please don't do it anyway just in case because my constituents think it is unsafe and I want their votes at some point'

    Asked by the BBC to detail her concerns about health, Ms Hobhouse said she had spent time weighing up the available evidence and conceded that all the official guidance was that it was safe.

    But she said that "given the widespread concern and conversations I have had with Bath residents who claim to be extra vulnerable, I believe it may be worth applying a precautionary principle on where masts are located whilst further studies are being undertaken".


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55399513
    That's even worse than just being plane stupid.
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254

    JBriskin3 said:

    moonshine said:

    Heathener said:

    Politics was of such higher quality back then.

    You can't blame it all on Boris Johnson. It has gone downhill for years. Tony Blair wasn't a parliamentarian, preferring media briefing to the House. David Cameron was okay I suppose. Theresa May likewise. The Remainer Parliament, even though I'm a remainer, was ridiculous really.

    But Boris Johnson has taken politics down into the gutter.

    Grieve was an excellent parliamentarian however, and he was also the chief remainer. May tried to bypass parliament many times, which is why he came in.
    The appalling actions of Grieve and co directly led to the elevation of Johnson to PM.
    No they didn't, but this is a common rewriting of history on the Brexiter side , that we've discussed many times on here. What made an extreme populist prime minister inevitable was in fact the actions of May in gradually excluding all softer Brexit options.
    If May was still PM we'd still be negotiating our terms of release.

    Got Brexit Done. Signed off Section 30 letter.

    If Boris is indeed Toast I will remember him fondly.
    That's why she couldn't have been, as I was mentioning. She set an extremely populist agenda in motion but was just inherently incapable of delivering it, clearing the way inevitably for our friend Bozo, the most nakedly populist of the main candidates, to come in.
    TMay populist agenda?

    I think she was trying to get us out of the EU but wasn't very good at it.

    She was a safe pair of hands when it comes to low politics though.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,712

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022

    All voters don't get a say until the next general election as we have a Tory majority government.

    Until then only the views of Tory MPs, Tory members and Tory voters matter as to whether Boris stays PM
    Classic, the rest of the world doesn't count.
    Yep, in our constitution only MPs of the party in power have the right to select the next PM . Then someone changed the rules and let party members (some of whom should not be let near crayons or blunt knifes) have a say in the decision. And look where that left us.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,479
    eek said:


    Nick Gullon
    @EchoNickG
    · 8m
    Tomorrow's @TheNorthernEcho

    Boris Johnson:

    A failure of leadership

    A failure of judgment

    Continuing to fail our country

    #TomorrowsPapersToday

    image

    He’s lost the Northern Echo. Hardly a shock there.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241
    dixiedean said:

    Just to post the poll findings of all voters. Not just Tories.

    - Two thirds of voters (64%) want Boris Johnson to resign following the Sue Gray report.
    - 83% believe he broke lockdown rules
    - 75% believe he is not telling the truth.

    January 31, 2022

    WTF is wrong with the other 25%?
This discussion has been closed.