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Where the race stands (0510 GMT) – politicalbetting.com

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  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,280
    Alistair said:

    It's 1.4 now!
    Jeez - i`ll have to go back in.

    Alistair - this is a steal, right? Am I missing something?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,339



    Aren't they low-education? Sorry, maybe you're right, I haven't looked it up. I figured most of the numbers were people who graduated High School then went straight into a job (the military) which for most values of $job is a very Trumpish demographic, but maybe I'm out-of-date.

    The US military is very high tech with a lot of well educated specialists. It's also, like the British forces, phenomenally effective at deprogramming racists.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited November 2020

    Yes, also Trump didn't *only* win with the demagoguery. He also spent years playing a highly successful businessman on TV. He definitely has a lot of supporters who rate him there and merely *tolerate* the bigotry.
    One of the only possibilities to fill this role is some of the Fox and ex-Fox journalists who've been talked about, I think, in somewhat of a parallel way to Johnson's background in journalism.
  • Aren't they low-education? Sorry, maybe you're right, I haven't looked it up. I figured most of the numbers were people who graduated High School then went straight into a job (the military) which for most values of $job is a very Trumpish demographic, but maybe I'm out-of-date.
    A lot of people join the military in order to get a college degree, I think. Projecting the political leanings of the British army, say, onto the US military would be a mistake. I met some very progressive ex military people in the US. It also has a reputation for not discriminating against minorities so is quite diverse.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292

    Aren't they low-education? Sorry, maybe you're right, I haven't looked it up. I figured most of the numbers were people who graduated High School then went straight into a job (the military) which for most values of $job is a very Trumpish demographic, but maybe I'm out-of-date.
    Apart from the obvious patriotic motivations, US military vets get major post discharge benefits on housing, health and Education. The latter includes free College tuition in your home state.

    Macnamara's morons are history.
  • The idiotic decision not to back free school meals on top of everything else was a poll tax moment that is now showing in the polls

    Time for the backbenchers to wake up and send in their letters
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    nichomar said:

    But you don’t like ‘our Kay’ in fact anything you say is colored by your view of her. She is annoying but they are covering something that will out live covid and is far more interesting. Trying to follow what the UK government is doing is close to impossible because five minutes latter it changes.
    Surely, "annoying" is the one thing a rolling news broadcaster should not have on their CV?

    Difficult to get beyond that.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,197
    Foxy said:

    GA is a great argument against "my vote won't make any difference".
    Got a ways to go to match Fife NE.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    Alistair said:

    It's 1.4 now!
    1.22 with next to no money left
  • Foxy said:

    GA is a great argument against "my vote won't make any difference".
    In a marginal of course your vote counts. Tell it to Californian or West Virginian.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292

    The idiotic decision not to back free school meals on top of everything else was a poll tax moment that is now showing in the polls

    Time for the backbenchers to wake up and send in their letters
    Also the latest lockdown, Starmer is now Captain Foresight.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292
    edited November 2020

    In a marginal of course your vote counts. Tell it to Californian or West Virginian.
    Of course! Or in my true blue constituency...

    If only we had STV...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,280
    IanB2 said:

    1.22 with next to no money left
    Sorry, I nipped in and took the 1.4
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    edited November 2020

    The idiotic decision not to back free school meals on top of everything else was a poll tax moment that is now showing in the polls

    Time for the backbenchers to wake up and send in their letters
    The school meals provision had already been made. Councils spent it then held out the begging bowls - in tones of great outrage.

    What has been crap is that a) it wasn't spotted in advance that this is what would happen and b) that the councils did this has not been forcefully pointed out by the Government. Shit politics from Government both ways round.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,818

    In a marginal of course your vote counts. Tell it to Californian or West Virginian.
    Or a Lib Dem...
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Scott_xP said:
    A world without Trump and Putin! Things definitely looking up for 2021.
  • Foxy said:

    Also the latest lockdown, Starmer is now Captain Foresight.
    I am not convinced on Starmer 's 2 week lockdown demand but refusing to feed hungry children is quite an extraordinary error
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited November 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    That would be big news indeed if true, but who are these "sources" ? The secrecy of the Russian state is almost watertight, usually.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292

    I am not convinced on Starmer 's 2 week lockdown demand but refusing to feed hungry children is quite an extraordinary error
    Starmer's action over the Antisemitism report hasn't hurt either.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,818
    edited November 2020
    Stocky said:

    Sorry, I nipped in and took the 1.4
    Not all of it. :smile:

    If you're feeling confident, Biden 300-329 available at 1.54
  • The school meals provision had already been made. Councils spent it then held out the begging bowls - in tones of great outrage.

    What has been crap is that a) it wasn't spotted in advance that this is what would happen and b) that the councils did this has not been forcefully pointed out by the Government. Shit politics from Government both ways round.
    Fair point but entirely avoidable
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    Foxy said:

    Also the latest lockdown, Starmer is now Captain Foresight.
    There was a cruel but funny observation of Starmer on Mock the Week - that he looked like a Toby jug wearing a poppy....
  • Scott_xP said:
    Perhaps Putin knows what is coming once Trump-Russia gets investigated seriously?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577

    A world without Trump and Putin! Things definitely looking up for 2021.
    ....or Boris..... :wink:
  • Foxy said:

    Starmer's action over the Antisemitism report hasn't hurt either.
    On that I agree
  • A lot of people join the military in order to get a college degree, I think. Projecting the political leanings of the British army, say, onto the US military would be a mistake. I met some very progressive ex military people in the US. It also has a reputation for not discriminating against minorities so is quite diverse.
    "Not discriminating against minorities" is putting it mildly. The Affirmative Action program in Vietnam was so successful that privileged whiteys like Trump and Bush couldn't get a look in.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,475
    Nick Robinson just said 'One thing we can be sure of Boris Johnson won't be the first leader to be invited to the White House'

    Wont we all love watching Angie and Manny holding their first press conference with President Joe....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Sandpit said:

    It would be interesting to see some polling next year on what were the most salient reasons for people voting the way they did. Watching from afar, it looked like there were a huge number of gaffes from both candidates and their parties during the campaign.

    Maybe a President from one party and the Senate majority with the other is the starting point for a more consensual politics in the next few years.
    Ah yes, the consensus politics of the Later Obama years where the Senate, as is its duty, reviewed Judicial nominations without fear or......

    Lol, couldn't finish that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292

    The school meals provision had already been made. Councils spent it then held out the begging bowls - in tones of great outrage.

    What has been crap is that a) it wasn't spotted in advance that this is what would happen and b) that the councils did this has not been forcefully pointed out by the Government. Shit politics from Government both ways round.
    I share your scepticism on the issue, but the optics are awful while money is being hosed everywhere else.

    There is a legitimate issue to be addressed in the level of normal benefits and targeting of these too.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137

    A world without Trump and Putin! Things definitely looking up for 2021.
    Good things normally come in threes....
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,798
    Nigelb said:

    Not all of it. :smile:

    If you're feeling confident, Biden 300-329 available at 1.54
    Similarly the -63.5 Handicap band is worth keeping an eye on
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,197

    I am not convinced on Starmer 's 2 week lockdown demand but refusing to feed hungry children is quite an extraordinary error
    2 week lockdowns are completely pointless, doing a lot of economic damage but having little impact on the spread of the virus. Has Wales worked out what its going to do next yet?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292

    "Not discriminating against minorities" is putting it mildly. The Affirmative Action program in Vietnam was so successful that privileged whiteys like Trump and Bush couldn't get a look in.
    Or Biden...

    But that was a half century ago, and things have changed.
  • "Not discriminating against minorities" is putting it mildly. The Affirmative Action program in Vietnam was so successful that privileged whiteys like Trump and Bush couldn't get a look in.
    I meant more in terms of promotions etc but I certainly take your point.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    Fox is transfixed by stories of 'irregularities' from PA, while GA may steal the story....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,235
    Take a look at this, back from 2016

    williamglenn Posts: 34,805
    March 2016

    RodCrosby said:

    er kommt!

    er kommt!

    It's hilarious to think that a couple of weeks ago the GOP establishment thought that an intervention by Romney and some jokes from Rubio would stop all of this.
  • This may seem sad to seasoned spread betters on here but when I bought Biden at 2.30 am at 262 ECVs I was shaking with fear. It was totally head over gut. My gut screamed not to do it because the markets were sliding away. But my head saw the suburban results and the c 5% swing to Biden from Clinton and I knew mentally that this had to be a great sign for him. But I've never ever in my life had such sheer terror with a bet. Looks good now but I really 'felt' I might come a cropper.

    And in the interest of balance, I lost several fixed odds bets as plenty on here will know :smiley: So I'm only reiterating your point: always bet with your head. Study the detail. And if you're spread betting, don't get drunk and DO stay up all through. You need to watch and react fast. Obvious points to many of you, I know.

    Buried inside Biden's Florida 'disaster' was the sign of why he would win the Presidency.
    You're one of the few of us who held your nerve, and you will be handsomely rewarded for it as a consequence.

    Great frame.
  • DavidL said:

    Got a ways to go to match Fife NE.
    Well only one of those places is the birthplace of the Proclaimers so Georgia certainly has a long way to go.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    IanB2 said:

    Good things normally come in threes....
    Exit Boris & Cummings?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Kamala Harris is still beneath 400.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292

    There was a cruel but funny observation of Starmer on Mock the Week - that he looked like a Toby jug wearing a poppy....
    He does have a rather ceramic quality to him!

    I am not a Starmer fan, but he is certainly a step up from the previous.
  • DavidL said:

    2 week lockdowns are completely pointless, doing a lot of economic damage but having little impact on the spread of the virus. Has Wales worked out what its going to do next yet?
    Supposed to be opening everything up on Monday as Drakeford painted himself into a corner by insisting it would only last 2 weeks

    No sign of an improvement in hospital admissions and death rates so far
  • Dura_Ace said:

    I think I may have mentioned before that I spent almost 6 weeks in a secure psychiatric facility in the mid noughties during the depths of my PTSD experience. That tweet exemplifies the communications style of the people I met in there.
    Ah, I didn't actually know that.

    Very sorry to hear that, and I hope you're feeling better now.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,923
    I'm very surprised that Trump is still at 12-12.5 on Betfair Exchange.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    CNN still trying to claim the race is "tight". Really disappointed in their coverage this year - they were excellent in 2016.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    Roger said:

    Nick Robinson just said 'One thing we can be sure of Boris Johnson won't be the first leader to be invited to the White House'

    Wont we all love watching Angie and Manny holding their first press conference with President Joe....

    Traditionally it is the Canadian PM who gets invited first, for a "neighbourly chat"
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    You're one of the few of us who held your nerve, and you will be handsomely rewarded for it as a consequence.

    Great frame.
    Indeed @Mysticrose congratulations and I hope you spend your winnings on something nice
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Chris said:

    I'm very surprised that Trump is still at 12-12.5 on Betfair Exchange.

    Cool analytical minds are keeping it there.
  • Morning Punters.

    Has anybody been onto one of those Trump-supporting social media sites to see how it's being taken. I'm thinking of the Twitter feeds where they were laughing about the state Biden supporters would be in now.

    How are they taking it?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited November 2020
    MrEd said:

    Indeed @Mysticrose congratulations and I hope you spend your winnings on something nice
    Can I thank once again whoever it was who tipped backing Biden at 5.0 in the middle of the panic on Tuesday.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,346
    Foxy said:

    Of course! Or in my true blue constituency...

    If only we had STV...
    Move to North West Leicestershire.

    Imagine your satisfaction in knowing your vote could have helped remove Andrew Bridgen, as the blue wall collapses.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited November 2020

    Traditionally it is the Canadian PM who gets invited first, for a "neighbourly chat"
    If Biden had a bust of Boris Johnson to remove from the oval office, he'd remove it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited November 2020
    eristdoof said:

    Please. You can read as well as I can. The original statement from MysticRose was
    "It's not often that an incumbent is defeated (only thrice before in American history) and, for all his faults, Trump's record on the economy was impressive, at least on paper. "

    It says incumbent, not incumbent party.
    Mysticrose was wrong, but I made my own point and specifically named party. So Rose was wrong but what I said was right. 🙄

    Plus my original comment was never in reply to Rose, it was in reply to Bournville so I've got no idea why you're throwing someone else being wrong into the mix to discount what I wrote in reply to someone else that Rose wasn't even involved in originally. 🙄
  • Suppression doesn't work long-term, it means that the pressure is there for the dam to break (as it has this year) when it vents and finds a way out. I think with turnout so high this time its going to be even harder to suppress votes next time. Once people get in the habit of voting its harder to stop them doing so again, its easier to keep people disinterested who never bothered in the past.
    I agree at some point the dam bursts and its all over as the voters remember who was boxing them in. It would be difficult to recover after that.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578
    IanB2 said:

    Fox is transfixed by stories of 'irregularities' from PA, while GA may steal the story....

    Fox is absolutely sh1t scared Trump is going to start his own TV channel and wreck their audience. The US TV market is not great anyway and seeing half of your audience disappear off would be catastrophic. Plus Lachlan is not as good as Rupert
  • Alistair said:

    So the message I'm getting is Trump shouldn't have taken his support in the rust belt for granted and should have crafted a policy vision more in tune with their concerns and economic anxiety?

    We've mentioned this before but Trump is not really a populist. He was elected on a populist platform but governed on mainstream GOP lines. The tax cuts went to bosses, not to the shop floor, for instance. Trump's behaviour in this campaign has been near suicidal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137

    Morning Punters.

    Has anybody been onto one of those Trump-supporting social media sites to see how it's being taken. I'm thinking of the Twitter feeds where they were laughing about the state Biden supporters would be in now.

    How are they taking it?

    If Fox is any guide, they will be sharing stories and rumours of all manner of fraud
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,292
    edited November 2020
    DavidL said:

    2 week lockdowns are completely pointless, doing a lot of economic damage but having little impact on the spread of the virus. Has Wales worked out what its going to do next yet?
    The first week of a lockdown may well increase transmission, as households spend more time in close proximity. It is only after that that the benefits show, so early days for Wales.

    Action a few weeks back in England (such as a 2 week half term) might have made more difference, but who knows?

    Certainly though the Captain Hindsight line has boomeranged back into BoZos face.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302

    Can I thank once again whoever it was who tipped backing Biden at 5.0 in the middle of the panic on Tuesday.
    Was it @HYUFD or @MrEd ? :wink:
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,923
    Alistair said:

    Cool analytical minds are keeping it there.
    I'm curious about the reasoning that would keep it there. Which three states of the four states still in play do they think Trump can win? Or succeed in winning through legal action?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,280
    edited November 2020

    Was it @HYUFD or @MrEd ? :wink:
    I thought it was CR, but may be wrong.

    Edit. Oops, just realised you were joking.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,346
    MrEd said:

    Fox is absolutely sh1t scared Trump is going to start his own TV channel and wreck their audience. The US TV market is not great anyway and seeing half of your audience disappear off would be catastrophic. Plus Lachlan is not as good as Rupert
    Will all the presenters be expected to wear orange jump suits to match Trump's?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601
    Chris said:

    He really thinks that because he's appointed a conservative majority on the Supreme Court they will return the favour by overturning the result of the presidential election, doesn't he?
    Theyd do a lot for him, on tight calls, but not that. He doesn't seem to realise he was doing the partys work picking justices, not picking cronies.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    Foxy said:

    The first week of a lockdown may well increase transmission, as households spend more time in close proximity. It is only after that that the benefits show, so early days for Wales.

    Action a few weeks back in England (such as a 2 week half term) might have made more difference, but who knows?

    Certainly though the Captain Hindsight line has boomeranged back into BoZos face.
    What effect does everyone spending three days consciously meeting as many people as possible before restriction come into place, have on the transmission rates?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Morning Punters.

    Has anybody been onto one of those Trump-supporting social media sites to see how it's being taken. I'm thinking of the Twitter feeds where they were laughing about the state Biden supporters would be in now.

    How are they taking it?

    Surely we just need to check in with regular posters contrarian and coach?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    IanB2 said:

    If Fox is any guide, they will be sharing stories and rumours of all manner of fraud
    Did Hunter Biden change results with his laptop?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    Stocky said:

    I thought it was CR, but may be wrong.

    Edit. Oops, just realised you were joking.
    To be fair to @HYUFD and @MrEd they were both righter than me about this election*, so well done to them, even if they did get a bit carried away on Trump's chances.

    (*Not that that's a high bar.)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Can I thank once again whoever it was who tipped backing Biden at 5.0 in the middle of the panic on Tuesday.
    Yes, phenomenal call.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Alistair said:

    Yes, phenomenal call.
    'Twas I and Casino Royale

  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,475
    Scott_xP said:
    Best image of the campaign. Well done Scott!

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    Yes, to put it another way, let's imagine the vote situation had been reversed and Biden had shown up and said exactly the same thing Trump had said. If the media had seen that and reported "In tight race, Biden raises concerns about election process" then that would be bias. But they wouldn't have, they'd have reported "Ailing, Defeated Biden has completely lost his mind".
    To imagine that scenario requires the imaginary Biden to have set the scene with similar wild behaviour as Trump in other things. So it's a pointless scenario as it's so divorced from the people we know.

    I don't think such talk is necessary even from partisan media, they can leave it to guests and pundits, but since such talk requires wider context of what the president is like you cannot simply guess the reaction if one variable changed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,346

    Morning Punters.

    Has anybody been onto one of those Trump-supporting social media sites to see how it's being taken. I'm thinking of the Twitter feeds where they were laughing about the state Biden supporters would be in now.

    How are they taking it?

    Armed and ready for action...
  • I somehow have the feeling he's going take all of them except NC, although predictions on American politics are not usually my best.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 12,557
    MrEd said:

    Indeed @Mysticrose congratulations and I hope you spend your winnings on something nice
    MrEd, thanks for staying around when Trump was losing, unlike a lot who came on to gloat when it looked like Biden was done and disappeared when things changed.

    We need the argument from both sides and you posted lots of argued analysis from the opposite perspective and in the end you were pretty well alone, which makes it a lot harder.

    I was about to say I enjoyed your posts, but to be honest I often didn't because you often put a good argument that worried me.

    Thank you.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,601

    No s##t Sherlock.
    And yet people on both sides make the Corbyn argument about record numbers, so apparently people do need reminding.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,302
    DougSeal said:
    Cue Trump campaign's new slogan "Stop the Stop the Count!"
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,339

    Traditionally it is the Canadian PM who gets invited first, for a "neighbourly chat"
    Trump's first foreign visit was Saudi Arabia. May did get the first White House visit but she had to pimp out the Queen and offer a State Visit to Trump to get it.

    Biden's first call will be Canada.

    His first overseas trip and WH visitor would be an interesting betting market. I reckon Mexico could be the first trip and Macron will be first into the WH. Johnson will get ghosted.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited November 2020
    Two of my posts in those darkest moments:

    2.30 am:

    There's value betting against Trump right now.


    This was the sign. 3.30 am:

    Biden is coming in again on the spreads. Not by a lot but still it's the first movement that direction since before Florida. As of now you can buy at 267. Was 262 ten minutes ago.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 31,346
    kjh said:

    MrEd, thanks for staying around when Trump was losing, unlike a lot who came on to gloat when it looked like Biden was done and disappeared when things changed.

    We need the argument from both sides and you posted lots of argued analysis from the opposite perspective and in the end you were pretty well alone, which makes it a lot harder.

    I was about to say I enjoyed your posts, but to be honest I often didn't because you often put a good argument that worried me.

    Thank you.
    A good post.

    Mr Ed dashed my hopes on several occasions.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    MrEd said:

    Fox is absolutely sh1t scared Trump is going to start his own TV channel and wreck their audience. The US TV market is not great anyway and seeing half of your audience disappear off would be catastrophic. Plus Lachlan is not as good as Rupert
    Well, having near half of America sure they were robbed of their rightful President is going to give him one hell of a potential audience. If he proves to be a better TV magnate than President, it probably gives the Republican party more nightmares than the Democrats. They ain't ever healing.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,331
    kjh said:

    MrEd, thanks for staying around when Trump was losing, unlike a lot who came on to gloat when it looked like Biden was done and disappeared when things changed.

    We need the argument from both sides and you posted lots of argued analysis from the opposite perspective and in the end you were pretty well alone, which makes it a lot harder.

    I was about to say I enjoyed your posts, but to be honest I often didn't because you often put a good argument that worried me.

    Thank you.
    Indeed, MrEd's point about Trump picking up hispanic votes seem to have turned out to be right.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    CNN covering the crossover now... still waiting for Fox

    Arose from a GA county recording a batch with 1602 v 222
  • Georgia Blue :grin: 🌊
  • Mal557Mal557 Posts: 662
    Biden up 900 votes in GA
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I'm really regretting backing out of my election night bet on Dems in GA right now!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 38,155
    nichomar said:

    I never thought watching paint dry could be so compulsive!

    https://twitter.com/rachmeetsworld/status/1324082219074244610
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,137
    Fox still saying Trump leads in GA
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,577
    DougSeal said:
    Meet President Biden....
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,620

    Supposed to be opening everything up on Monday as Drakeford painted himself into a corner by insisting it would only last 2 weeks

    No sign of an improvement in hospital admissions and death rates so far
    And by the way - thank you very much for your decency yesterday in response to a post by someone else on a comment of mine.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,938
    edited November 2020

    Well, having near half of America sure they were robbed of their rightful President is going to give him one hell of a potential audience. If he proves to be a better TV magnate than President, it probably gives the Republican party more nightmares than the Democrats. They ain't ever healing.
    Absolutely. This will be the future of Trump, the Republican party and the centre of gravity of US political debate, I think. TV politics and the French thinkers', like Baudrillard's, idea of the "total triumph of the media spectacle".
This discussion has been closed.