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  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    A chilling tweet...

    https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1241402681161179142

    Eh?

    "Staff will receive free burials when it's over" would be a lot more chilling.

    At least it assumes staff will be alive at the end of this process.
    The ones in HDU/ICU will see plenty of death in normal times, there were a right good few during my hospital visiting during my wife's recent 5 week stay.
  • kinabalu
    kinabalu Posts: 46,273
    Mortimer said:

    Indeed. IMO anyone worried about biz gaming the system doesn't understand the likely economic implications of this current crisis.

    I'm not worried about it. I just thought people might be interested in a feature of the package that -

    1. Will partially explain the rush of business closures we are about to see.

    2. Is a loophole that businesses who are NOT struggling can exploit.

    Is that not extremely interesting?
  • IanB2
    IanB2 Posts: 52,312
    Bizarrely, Waitrose's standard email response now includes the instructions for sending it out:

    Everything else that we’re no longer replying to - branch service complaints, product enquiries, jobs, complaining about customer bulk buying, etc. Use the following template:

    Thank you for contacting Waitrose & Partners.

    We are so sorry, but due to the current high demand for our services at this difficult time, we won’t be able to respond to your query as personally as we would have liked. However, please be assured that we will be noting your comments.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not all businesses are suffering. Try buying home gym equipment.

    Just ordered a Peloton! I'm told it will arrive April 2nd. I won't be shocked if it doesn't...
    Is that the one where you get stung for 40 quid a month so you can pretend you are cycling with a bunch of freaks and some whiny bint prattles on in a high pitched squeaky voice
    Precisely. I can't wait.

    I know there are cheaper ways of doing the same thing, but as an iPhone user I find it reassuringly expensive.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    Floater said:

    matthiasfromhamburg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    A chilling tweet...

    https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1241402681161179142

    Eh?

    "Staff will receive free burials when it's over" would be a lot more chilling.

    At least it assumes staff will be alive at the end of this process.
    You're starting to sound a bit like HYUFD, lately.
    Take that back right now!!!!! :-)
    That is the insult of insults
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    matthiasfromhamburg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    A chilling tweet...

    https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1241402681161179142

    Eh?

    "Staff will receive free burials when it's over" would be a lot more chilling.

    At least it assumes staff will be alive at the end of this process.
    You're starting to sound a bit like HYUFD, lately.
    I'm not sure that's a compliment.
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    Indeed. IMO anyone worried about biz gaming the system doesn't understand the likely economic implications of this current crisis.

    I'm not worried about it. I just thought people might be interested in a feature of the package that -

    1. Will partially explain the rush of business closures we are about to see.

    2. Is a loophole that businesses who are NOT struggling can exploit.

    Is that not extremely interesting?
    I run a (largely online) business. More orders since 5pm last night than in the whole of the previous 4 days put together.

    I think people were incredibly reassured by the statement made yesterday. Despite some in the media stirring the pot.
  • matthiasfromhamburg
    matthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    "Lotta things goin' on" says the blob, looks uncomfortable.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1241387758528200705

    This is a possible example of the "gaming" of Sunak's package that I posted about earlier.

    JL can place employees "on furlough" and pay 20% of wages instead of 100%.

    They can do this even if without the package they were not going to fire people at this point.
    Not really though.

    They've closed the stores because they don't have any customers.

    Admitted JLP is not quite like other companies, but they wouldn't keep staff (sorry: "partners") for long if they didn't have the revenue to pay them

    It's more like that it's an example of Sunak's policy working.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    Mortimer said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not all businesses are suffering. Try buying home gym equipment.

    Just ordered a Peloton! I'm told it will arrive April 2nd. I won't be shocked if it doesn't...
    Is that the one where you get stung for 40 quid a month so you can pretend you are cycling with a bunch of freaks and some whiny bint prattles on in a high pitched squeaky voice
    Precisely. I can't wait.

    I know there are cheaper ways of doing the same thing, but as an iPhone user I find it reassuringly expensive.
    Hopefully they do not use the American's over here or you will be driven insane by those voices
  • matthiasfromhamburg
    matthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    rcs1000 said:

    matthiasfromhamburg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    A chilling tweet...

    https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1241402681161179142

    Eh?

    "Staff will receive free burials when it's over" would be a lot more chilling.

    At least it assumes staff will be alive at the end of this process.
    You're starting to sound a bit like HYUFD, lately.
    I'm not sure that's a compliment.
    Why would you say something like that?
  • Fysics_Teacher
    Fysics_Teacher Posts: 6,303
    IanB2 said:

    another_richard said:

    Given the circumstances we find ourselves in I am going to take a slightly different approach to the review this week. As opposed to selecting a single subject to critique, I thought it would be more helpful to pick out five 5-star (IMO) hidden gems freely accessible online, which can be enjoyed at home.

    I've tried to mix it up a bit, taking in a classic kids TV series, an amazing speech, a great documentary, magnificent opera, and tip top pod.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51968653

    I'm sure some PBers can themselves suggest other things of interest.

    I am quite enjoying Monk on Amazon Prime at the moment. Think autistic Colombo with OCD, in San Fran. Each episode is stand alone and contains a crime mystery, so it’s an engaging way to spend chunks of 45 minutes.
    Bones from the same source is also engaging and there are hundreds (quite literally) of episodes.

  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    IanB2 said:

    Health officials in New York City and Los Angeles County are signaling a change in local strategy when it comes to coronavirus testing, recommending that doctors avoid testing patients except in cases where a test result would significantly change the course of treatment.

    That's the anti-Korea strategy, the "we don't want to know" strategy, the "oh please go around spreading CV-19" strategy.

    I'm not sure it will pan out well.
  • BluestBlue
    BluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not all businesses are suffering. Try buying home gym equipment.

    Just ordered a Peloton! I'm told it will arrive April 2nd. I won't be shocked if it doesn't...
    Is that the one where you get stung for 40 quid a month so you can pretend you are cycling with a bunch of freaks and some whiny bint prattles on in a high pitched squeaky voice
    I believe the PC term is 'menstrual cyclist' :wink:
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    Fysics_Teacher said:

    IanB2 said:

    another_richard said:

    Given the circumstances we find ourselves in I am going to take a slightly different approach to the review this week. As opposed to selecting a single subject to critique, I thought it would be more helpful to pick out five 5-star (IMO) hidden gems freely accessible online, which can be enjoyed at home.

    I've tried to mix it up a bit, taking in a classic kids TV series, an amazing speech, a great documentary, magnificent opera, and tip top pod.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51968653

    I'm sure some PBers can themselves suggest other things of interest.

    I am quite enjoying Monk on Amazon Prime at the moment. Think autistic Colombo with OCD, in San Fran. Each episode is stand alone and contains a crime mystery, so it’s an engaging way to spend chunks of 45 minutes.
    Bones from the same source is also engaging and there are hundreds (quite literally) of episodes.

    I've recently discovered Newsroom. Its really enjoyable. Good old Sorkin!
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Trump as good as ever.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Much better...no waffle, straight to the point.

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1241388730180608003?s=20

    what's with the Venezuelan flag though?
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Look away now.....

    https://twitter.com/WhiteHouse/status/1241409104645476352?s=20
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Trump the only person in the world praising panic buying
  • matthiasfromhamburg
    matthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    The blob talks a lot about the other 148 countries and all the governors and what they are doing, not so much about his tremendous success.
    The messaging seems to change.
  • ClippP
    ClippP Posts: 1,983
    rcs1000 said:

    I think everyone has a smartphone in the UK. .....

    Some people do, Robert, but certainly not everybody. I don´t for one.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    BluestBlue said:

    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Not all businesses are suffering. Try buying home gym equipment.

    Just ordered a Peloton! I'm told it will arrive April 2nd. I won't be shocked if it doesn't...
    Is that the one where you get stung for 40 quid a month so you can pretend you are cycling with a bunch of freaks and some whiny bint prattles on in a high pitched squeaky voice
    I believe the PC term is 'menstrual cyclist' :wink:
    :D
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    At what point can I suggest to my wife that we eat the dog?
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    Charles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Much better...no waffle, straight to the point.

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1241388730180608003?s=20

    what's with the Venezuelan flag though?
    We all socialists now...
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    ClippP said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I think everyone has a smartphone in the UK. .....

    Some people do, Robert, but certainly not everybody. I don´t for one.
    iPhone user, huh?
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    alex_ said:

    Trump the only person in the world praising panic buying

    "Wallmart's doing very well.....busier than Christmas...."
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    I think they just need to change the time they release the numbers.

    https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status/1241405397606584321?s=20
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    matthiasfromhamburg said:

    The blob talks a lot about the other 148 countries and all the governors and what they are doing, not so much about his tremendous success.
    The messaging seems to change.

    A lot of things he’s banking as being the first President in history to do.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    Trump reading is like word spaghetti...
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,865
    CarlottaVance said:

    alex_ said:

    Trump the only person in the world praising panic buying

    "Wallmart's doing very well.....busier than Christmas...."
    Seriously? He actually said that.
  • kinabalu
    kinabalu Posts: 46,273
    Charles said:

    Not really though.

    They've closed the stores because they don't have any customers.

    Admitted JLP is not quite like other companies, but they wouldn't keep staff (sorry: "partners") for long if they didn't have the revenue to pay them

    It's more like that it's an example of Sunak's policy working.

    Maybe they were going to close on Monday with or without the package. That is possible. I did say that JL was only a possible example of what I'm saying.

    But you do get my general points, I'm sure -

    1. The package will make closing a no-brainer decision for some businesses that otherwise would have struggled on for a while.

    2. There is scope for abuse by businesses that are not seriously struggling.

    And to be clear, I raise this purely for interest, not because I oppose the package.
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited March 2020
    Restriced number of entries coupled with announcement of sunday's closures and rumours on weekend's bans....ended up with these situations in front of Milan supermarkers (but it was the same in other cities) yesterday

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43BXI4fo5mI

    But we are orderly!
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,865
    Mortimer said:

    Fysics_Teacher said:

    IanB2 said:

    another_richard said:

    Given the circumstances we find ourselves in I am going to take a slightly different approach to the review this week. As opposed to selecting a single subject to critique, I thought it would be more helpful to pick out five 5-star (IMO) hidden gems freely accessible online, which can be enjoyed at home.

    I've tried to mix it up a bit, taking in a classic kids TV series, an amazing speech, a great documentary, magnificent opera, and tip top pod.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-51968653

    I'm sure some PBers can themselves suggest other things of interest.

    I am quite enjoying Monk on Amazon Prime at the moment. Think autistic Colombo with OCD, in San Fran. Each episode is stand alone and contains a crime mystery, so it’s an engaging way to spend chunks of 45 minutes.
    Bones from the same source is also engaging and there are hundreds (quite literally) of episodes.

    I've recently discovered Newsroom. Its really enjoyable. Good old Sorkin!
    Yes, I really enjoyed it. Sadly, got canned after two, or maybe three series.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    edited March 2020
    God he is back on the corporate advertising. Trump should wear a suit jacket with all the corporate logos on each time he does a press conference, so he doesn't need to waste time name checking them all.
  • nichomar
    nichomar Posts: 7,483
    Chameleon said:

    rottenborough said:

    Any good news on all this today? I need some.

    We've got 8 fantastic days of weather ahead. Plenty of time to grab a few cold drinks and sunbathe.
    What are you calling fantastic weather? We had about three weeks with max temp 23/24 but there is no evidence it has made a difference. Someone did say they thought the virus killing temp was 27
  • matthiasfromhamburg
    matthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    alex_ said:

    matthiasfromhamburg said:

    The blob talks a lot about the other 148 countries and all the governors and what they are doing, not so much about his tremendous success.
    The messaging seems to change.

    A lot of things he’s banking as being the first President in history to do.
    Driven by circumstances, against previous messaging. Looks defensive and increasingly weak.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    NY beginning to be overwhelmed:

    https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/han/advisory/2020/covid-19-03202020.pdf
    To preserve PPE for HCW providing medically necessary care for hospitalized patients, the NYC Health Department is directing healthcare facilities to IMMEDIATELY STOP TESTING NON-HOSPITALIZED PATIENTS FOR COVID-19 unless test results will impact the clinical management of the patient. In addition, do not test asymptomatic people, including HCWs or first responders. COVID-19 testing is only indicated for HOSPITALIZED PATIENTS....

    Similar shortage of PPE to us.

    Earlier this week the AVMA banned all non-emergency treatments in vet clinics to preserve PPE.
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    nichomar said:

    Chameleon said:

    rottenborough said:

    Any good news on all this today? I need some.

    We've got 8 fantastic days of weather ahead. Plenty of time to grab a few cold drinks and sunbathe.
    What are you calling fantastic weather? We had about three weeks with max temp 23/24 but there is no evidence it has made a difference. Someone did say they thought the virus killing temp was 27
    I think he just meant self isolating in the garden would be quite pleasant
  • kinabalu
    kinabalu Posts: 46,273
    Mortimer said:

    I run a (largely online) business. More orders since 5pm last night than in the whole of the previous 4 days put together.

    I think people were incredibly reassured by the statement made yesterday. Despite some in the media stirring the pot.

    Great. As I say, I'm not slagging it off. I'm just thinking of how it might play out in certain situations. People wanted to hear something big and reassuring. They heard something big and reassuring.
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Do you know how many tests there were yesterday?
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    The Italy "total cases" number has now had three days in a row of growing at 15%.
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Do you know how many tests there were yesterday?
    Total this evening is 233,222
    It was 206,866 yesterday
  • GideonWise
    GideonWise Posts: 1,123
    So grim from Italy.

    But I think we will be worse than them all.

    Observing my fairly middle class neighbours operating today. They don't have a clue.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Pence pimping for Preachers....
  • matthiasfromhamburg
    matthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    The Italy "total cases" number has now had three days in a row of growing at 15%.
    Knocking on wood.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    GideonWise said:

    So grim from Italy.

    But I think we will be worse than them all.

    Observing my fairly middle class neighbours operating today. They don't have a clue.

    When it was just over in China you could understand it, but now it is wall to wall about Italy, France, Spain...
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,865
    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1241380837154848774
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Restriced number of entries coupled with announcement of sunday's closures and rumours on weekend's bans....ended up with these situations in front of Milan supermarkers (but it was the same in other cities) yesterday

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43BXI4fo5mI

    But we are orderly!

    We've had this in Spain for the past week - very well organised and orderly - some gaps on the shelves but still plenty of options.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    edited March 2020
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Worldometers reports total cases at 53,578 (+6557) - same deaths as you.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
  • WhisperingOracle
    WhisperingOracle Posts: 10,470
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1241380837154848774

    Wrong rhetoric and won't work.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    Indeed. IMO anyone worried about biz gaming the system doesn't understand the likely economic implications of this current crisis.

    I'm not worried about it. I just thought people might be interested in a feature of the package that -

    1. Will partially explain the rush of business closures we are about to see.

    2. Is a loophole that businesses who are NOT struggling can exploit.

    Is that not extremely interesting?
    I run a (largely online) business. More orders since 5pm last night than in the whole of the previous 4 days put together.

    I think people were incredibly reassured by the statement made yesterday. Despite some in the media stirring the pot.
    What do you sell Mortimer , if that is not too rude a question. Feel free not to answer if so.
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    felix said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Restriced number of entries coupled with announcement of sunday's closures and rumours on weekend's bans....ended up with these situations in front of Milan supermarkers (but it was the same in other cities) yesterday

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43BXI4fo5mI

    But we are orderly!

    We've had this in Spain for the past week - very well organised and orderly - some gaps on the shelves but still plenty of options.
    We had the problems on the shelves on the first couple of days when the crisis was only in Codogno and co and there was some panic buying and supermarkets not ready for it.
    I went last Thursday and there was no problem in the shelves. I took half an hour to get in because they obviously allow only a certain number of people in at the same time.
    I managed to order it online last week...it will arrive next Tuesday. I bought enough last week to cope until the online order arrives.
  • Foxy
    Foxy Posts: 52,170
    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    A chilling tweet...

    https://twitter.com/JeremyCliffe/status/1241402681161179142

    Eh?

    "Staff will receive free burials when it's over" would be a lot more chilling.

    At least it assumes staff will be alive at the end of this process.
    While I am all in favour of gallows humour:

    https://twitter.com/bianca_nobilo/status/1241117231481749504?s=09
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    RobD said:

    Surely protecting struggling businesses is the whole point of the package? I don't see how this is anything but working as intended.

    That is right in principle and (probably) also right for the majority of cases. However there is room for abuse. Example -

    Company with staff WFH that has a balance sheet strong enough to ride this out for quite some time.

    Change the status of those staff from WFH (due to crisis) to On Furlough (due to crisis).

    80% please.
    How do you expect shop staff to WFH?
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Ecstatic that I managed to locate a pc monitor on line today
  • Nigelb
    Nigelb Posts: 79,357
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    NY beginning to be overwhelmed:

    https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/han/advisory/2020/covid-19-03202020.pdf
    To preserve PPE for HCW providing medically necessary care for hospitalized patients, the NYC Health Department is directing healthcare facilities to IMMEDIATELY STOP TESTING NON-HOSPITALIZED PATIENTS FOR COVID-19 unless test results will impact the clinical management of the patient. In addition, do not test asymptomatic people, including HCWs or first responders. COVID-19 testing is only indicated for HOSPITALIZED PATIENTS....

    Similar shortage of PPE to us.

    Earlier this week the AVMA banned all non-emergency treatments in vet clinics to preserve PPE.
    https://twitter.com/NYGovCuomo/status/1241383725285478400
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    The Italy "total cases" number has now had three days in a row of growing at 15%.
    Is that good or bad, does not sound good but if it was 30% before for example it could be
  • nichomar
    nichomar Posts: 7,483
    alex_ said:

    nichomar said:

    Chameleon said:

    rottenborough said:

    Any good news on all this today? I need some.

    We've got 8 fantastic days of weather ahead. Plenty of time to grab a few cold drinks and sunbathe.
    What are you calling fantastic weather? We had about three weeks with max temp 23/24 but there is no evidence it has made a difference. Someone did say they thought the virus killing temp was 27
    I think he just meant self isolating in the garden would be quite pleasant
    Well it’s shit here at the moment cold, 14 and wet and another two or three days of it.
  • IanB2
    IanB2 Posts: 52,312
    rcs1000 said:

    At what point can I suggest to my wife that we eat the dog?

    I was reading an account of the Lewis & Clark expedition recently; during their hard times they got to eat all manner of animals, yet they said dog was what they enjoyed the most.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,728
    alex_ said:

    Ecstatic that I managed to locate a pc monitor on line today

    I wasn't aware there were mass shortages.
  • GideonWise
    GideonWise Posts: 1,123
    WhisperingOracle said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1241380837154848774

    Wrong rhetoric and won't work.
    What is the right rhetoric?

    I think we have tried with the nudge. We have tried with information. We will try with the shaming. Ultimately we might try force but I fear there are no resources in the country to apply the necessary force.

    I fear it might be every man for himself.
  • kinabalu
    kinabalu Posts: 46,273
    alex_ said:

    Trump as good as ever.

    Is it possible to imagine a person less equipped with the skill set required for a US President at this grave moment in history?
  • BigRich
    BigRich Posts: 3,492
    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1241399283871596552

    2 billion out of 2 Trillion being 1% in this persons would?
  • TheScreamingEagles
    TheScreamingEagles Posts: 122,806
    https://twitter.com/ryansabey/status/1241415900030537728
  • Benpointer
    Benpointer Posts: 35,627
    BigRich said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1241399283871596552

    2 billion out of 2 Trillion being 1% in this persons would?
    0.1% surely?
  • Mortimer
    Mortimer Posts: 14,229
    malcolmg said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mortimer said:

    Indeed. IMO anyone worried about biz gaming the system doesn't understand the likely economic implications of this current crisis.

    I'm not worried about it. I just thought people might be interested in a feature of the package that -

    1. Will partially explain the rush of business closures we are about to see.

    2. Is a loophole that businesses who are NOT struggling can exploit.

    Is that not extremely interesting?
    I run a (largely online) business. More orders since 5pm last night than in the whole of the previous 4 days put together.

    I think people were incredibly reassured by the statement made yesterday. Despite some in the media stirring the pot.
    What do you sell Mortimer , if that is not too rude a question. Feel free not to answer if so.
    Antique books.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    BigRich said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1241399283871596552

    2 billion out of 2 Trillion being 1% in this persons would?
    He typed ".1%"
  • AndreaParma_82
    AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    CarlottaVance said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Worldometers reports total cases at 53,578 (+6557) - same deaths as you.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    total is 53k because it is the sum of currently positive + deaths + healed
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    GideonWise said:

    So grim from Italy.

    But I think we will be worse than them all.

    Observing my fairly middle class neighbours operating today. They don't have a clue.

    I’m amazed by how many are going in the largest supermarkets where social distancing is impossible. Largest shop in town centre where I am is Waitrose. Jam packed. Reasonably sized Tesco Metro two minutes away. Relatively empty and no queues at tills. Some shortages (as there are everywhere) but more than enough to do a decent shop.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    nichomar said:

    alex_ said:

    nichomar said:

    Chameleon said:

    rottenborough said:

    Any good news on all this today? I need some.

    We've got 8 fantastic days of weather ahead. Plenty of time to grab a few cold drinks and sunbathe.
    What are you calling fantastic weather? We had about three weeks with max temp 23/24 but there is no evidence it has made a difference. Someone did say they thought the virus killing temp was 27
    I think he just meant self isolating in the garden would be quite pleasant
    Well it’s shit here at the moment cold, 14 and wet and another two or three days of it.
    Sunny but a litte chilly in London today.
  • ABZ
    ABZ Posts: 441
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Do you know how many tests there were yesterday?
    Total this evening is 233,222
    It was 206,866 yesterday
    Long time lurker, rather nervously typing....

    This means the fraction of positive cases has remained constant the last couple of days, right? Also, the number of tests in Lombardy doubled in the last 24h (from 4931 to 9555), meaning the fraction of positive tests there actually fell from 50% to 33%.
  • WhisperingOracle
    WhisperingOracle Posts: 10,470
    edited March 2020
    GideonWise said:

    WhisperingOracle said:

    rottenborough said:

    https://twitter.com/politicshome/status/1241380837154848774

    Wrong rhetoric and won't work.
    What is the right rhetoric?

    I think we have tried with the nudge. We have tried with information. We will try with the shaming. Ultimately we might try force but I fear there are no resources in the country to apply the necessary force.

    I fear it might be every man for himself.
    Telling everyone that they're morally to blame for what is, in many cases, trying to adapt to everyone else's demand, will achieve nothing. You have to hammer home the message that if we all might have a rational reasons for wanting more than usual, we all have to do that very gradually, otherwise we all lose out. Shaming people in a society like Britain's will achieve nothing and make them tune out ; that may have its own implications, but that is the daily reality.

    If trying to hammer home a more civic culture of some European countries doesn't work in a short space of time, the government may have to impose limits and try and police them, however difficult that will be.
  • Andrew
    Andrew Posts: 2,900
    alex_ said:


    I’m amazed by how many are going in the largest supermarkets where social distancing is impossible.

    Same. I've been going to smaller supermarkets late at night (and surprisingly stocks of most things are fine).

  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    alex_ said:

    Ecstatic that I managed to locate a pc monitor on line today

    I wasn't aware there were mass shortages.
    Out of stock everywhere. In London anyway.
  • matthiasfromhamburg
    matthiasfromhamburg Posts: 957
    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    The Italy "total cases" number has now had three days in a row of growing at 15%.
    Is that good or bad, does not sound good but if it was 30% before for example it could be
    The former, their curve may be (slightly) flattening.
  • kinabalu
    kinabalu Posts: 46,273
    edited March 2020
    Charles said:

    How do you expect shop staff to WFH?

    I wouldn't. Clearly not. But the package is available to any business that puts staff on furlough due to the crisis. Sunak specifically stressed this.
  • Foxy
    Foxy Posts: 52,170
    I have found a packet of unopened spaghetti in the cupboard, use by dated 2014.

    At what price should I start the bidding?
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Not really though.

    They've closed the stores because they don't have any customers.

    Admitted JLP is not quite like other companies, but they wouldn't keep staff (sorry: "partners") for long if they didn't have the revenue to pay them

    It's more like that it's an example of Sunak's policy working.

    Maybe they were going to close on Monday with or without the package. That is possible. I did say that JL was only a possible example of what I'm saying.

    But you do get my general points, I'm sure -

    1. The package will make closing a no-brainer decision for some businesses that otherwise would have struggled on for a while.

    2. There is scope for abuse by businesses that are not seriously struggling.

    And to be clear, I raise this purely for interest, not because I oppose the package.
    A business that is not "seriously struggling" would rather have people remain in employment and working. It might trim back individuals, but if it decided to do that then it wouldn't be interested in a 3 month option to keep them on. Retail stores or others that have no revenues in this situation simply would have to fire people, which is what the package avoids.

  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    AndreaParma_82 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Worldometers reports total cases at 53,578 (+6557) - same deaths as you.

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    total is 53k because it is the sum of currently positive + deaths + healed
    Ah thank you! People usually quote "Total cases" - that's what threw me!

    Watching the US Press Conference - this shuffling back and forth to the single lectern makes the Downing St Press conferences look polished and professional.
  • brokenwheel
    brokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    Andrew said:

    alex_ said:


    I’m amazed by how many are going in the largest supermarkets where social distancing is impossible.

    Same. I've been going to smaller supermarkets late at night (and surprisingly stocks of most things are fine).

    Same, I'm surprised more people aren't doing this tbh.
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,459
    ABZ said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Do you know how many tests there were yesterday?
    Total this evening is 233,222
    It was 206,866 yesterday
    Long time lurker, rather nervously typing....

    This means the fraction of positive cases has remained constant the last couple of days, right? Also, the number of tests in Lombardy doubled in the last 24h (from 4931 to 9555), meaning the fraction of positive tests there actually fell from 50% to 33%.
    Welcome, ABZ.
  • Floater
    Floater Posts: 14,207
    alex_ said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    alex_ said:

    Ecstatic that I managed to locate a pc monitor on line today

    I wasn't aware there were mass shortages.
    Out of stock everywhere. In London anyway.
    I wanted a monitor as now WAH full time - in the 10 mins between me sourcing 2 monitors and being approved they had gone - In the end I purchased one and got authority afterwards - each obviously more expensive than the last
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Foxy said:

    I have found a packet of unopened spaghetti in the cupboard, use by dated 2014.

    At what price should I start the bidding?

    "Use by" or "Best Before"? (usually the latter for dry goods)
  • Omnium
    Omnium Posts: 11,764
    alex_ said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    alex_ said:

    Ecstatic that I managed to locate a pc monitor on line today

    I wasn't aware there were mass shortages.
    Out of stock everywhere. In London anyway.
    Wisdom?
  • Andrew
    Andrew Posts: 2,900
    edited March 2020
    ABZ said:


    This means the fraction of positive cases has remained constant the last couple of days, right?


    The positive% each day is climbing but not too steeply. Start of the month it was 20%ish, now it's maybe 27%ish (during which period the number of daily tests has increased near ten-fold).

    For comparison, the UK figure is maybe around 10% now. Spain's is over 50%.
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    nichomar said:

    alex_ said:

    nichomar said:

    Chameleon said:

    rottenborough said:

    Any good news on all this today? I need some.

    We've got 8 fantastic days of weather ahead. Plenty of time to grab a few cold drinks and sunbathe.
    What are you calling fantastic weather? We had about three weeks with max temp 23/24 but there is no evidence it has made a difference. Someone did say they thought the virus killing temp was 27
    I think he just meant self isolating in the garden would be quite pleasant
    Well it’s shit here at the moment cold, 14 and wet and another two or three days of it.
    sounds a bit like summer here
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    From Italy, one big negative out of today's numbers, and two small positives.

    The big negative is new cases continue to climb in Lombardy and Veneto, despite those being the earliest places to implement lockdowns. Lombardy saw (if my nunbers are correct, which they may not ne) 3,251 new cases which is 50% above the pace of the last few days. Veneto increased 586 new cases, which is a small increase from 547 the previous day.

    The small positives are:

    - across all of Italy we continued to see a gentle slowing in the number infected. It increased 14% from the previous day. This has been gradually trending down over the past two weeks from the 30s. But, of course, off much bigger bases each time.

    - at least some of the increase in infections is due to the Italians doing much, much more testing. In the last two days, the number tested has risen from (and again excuse my maths here) 17,000 to 33,000. This means the proportion testing positive has gone from 30% to 20%.
  • IshmaelZ
    IshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    At what point can I suggest to my wife that we eat the dog?

    I was reading an account of the Lewis & Clark expedition recently; during their hard times they got to eat all manner of animals, yet they said dog was what they enjoyed the most.
    Amundsen ate his dogs, Scott did not.

    Draw your own conclusions.
  • Charles
    Charles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2020
    ABZ said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Do you know how many tests there were yesterday?
    Total this evening is 233,222
    It was 206,866 yesterday
    Long time lurker, rather nervously typing....

    This means the fraction of positive cases has remained constant the last couple of days, right? Also, the number of tests in Lombardy doubled in the last 24h (from 4931 to 9555), meaning the fraction of positive tests there actually fell from 50% to 33%.
    Welcome. We don't bite. Much*

    * (although once @rcs1000 finishes the dog...)
  • Foxy
    Foxy Posts: 52,170
    CarlottaVance said:

    Foxy said:

    I have found a packet of unopened spaghetti in the cupboard, use by dated 2014.

    At what price should I start the bidding?

    "Use by" or "Best Before"? (usually the latter for dry goods)
    Best Before, Coop own brand, 500g.
    Come on, serious bidders only...
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    Not really though.

    They've closed the stores because they don't have any customers.

    Admitted JLP is not quite like other companies, but they wouldn't keep staff (sorry: "partners") for long if they didn't have the revenue to pay them

    It's more like that it's an example of Sunak's policy working.

    Maybe they were going to close on Monday with or without the package. That is possible. I did say that JL was only a possible example of what I'm saying.

    But you do get my general points, I'm sure -

    1. The package will make closing a no-brainer decision for some businesses that otherwise would have struggled on for a while.

    2. There is scope for abuse by businesses that are not seriously struggling.

    And to be clear, I raise this purely for interest, not because I oppose the package.
    A business that is not "seriously struggling" would rather have people remain in employment and working. It might trim back individuals, but if it decided to do that then it wouldn't be interested in a 3 month option to keep them on. Retail stores or others that have no revenues in this situation simply would have to fire people, which is what the package avoids.

    I imagine John Lewis are shifting a lot of staff to Waitrose.

    Also, whilst I have great sympathy for the situation many self employed find themselves in, there are companies (most obviously supermarkets) creating jobs that people can apply for. They shouldn’t just expect the Govt to solve everything. God knows what the Govt does if there’s a repeat of what is happening now in winter.
  • squareroot2
    squareroot2 Posts: 7,098
    The edit facility seems to be malfunctioning?
  • malcolmg
    malcolmg Posts: 44,523
    matthiasfromhamburg said:

    malcolmg said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    The Italy "total cases" number has now had three days in a row of growing at 15%.
    Is that good or bad, does not sound good but if it was 30% before for example it could be
    The former, their curve may be (slightly) flattening.
    cheers
  • IanB2
    IanB2 Posts: 52,312
    ABZ said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Do you know how many tests there were yesterday?
    Total this evening is 233,222
    It was 206,866 yesterday
    Long time lurker, rather nervously typing....

    This means the fraction of positive cases has remained constant the last couple of days, right? Also, the number of tests in Lombardy doubled in the last 24h (from 4931 to 9555), meaning the fraction of positive tests there actually fell from 50% to 33%.
    JM1?
  • Omnium
    Omnium Posts: 11,764
    ABZ said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    AndreaParma_82 said:

    Italy

    Currently positive:: 42.681 (+4.821 net)
    including UCI 2.857 (+202 net)
    Deaths: 4.825 (+793)
    Healed: 6.072 (+943)

    So 6557 new cases

    Do you know how many tests there were yesterday?
    Total this evening is 233,222
    It was 206,866 yesterday
    Long time lurker, rather nervously typing....

    This means the fraction of positive cases has remained constant the last couple of days, right? Also, the number of tests in Lombardy doubled in the last 24h (from 4931 to 9555), meaning the fraction of positive tests there actually fell from 50% to 33%.
    Welcome from me too ABZ
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Foxy said:

    I have found a packet of unopened spaghetti in the cupboard, use by dated 2014.

    At what price should I start the bidding?

    "Use by" or "Best Before"? (usually the latter for dry goods)
    Best Before, Coop own brand, 500g.
    Come on, serious bidders only...
    Are you including the weevils??

    I happen to be a vegetarian :lol:
  • alex_
    alex_ Posts: 7,518
    rcs1000 said:

    From Italy, one big negative out of today's numbers, and two small positives.

    The big negative is new cases continue to climb in Lombardy and Veneto, despite those being the earliest places to implement lockdowns. Lombardy saw (if my nunbers are correct, which they may not ne) 3,251 new cases which is 50% above the pace of the last few days. Veneto increased 586 new cases, which is a small increase from 547 the previous day.

    The small positives are:

    - across all of Italy we continued to see a gentle slowing in the number infected. It increased 14% from the previous day. This has been gradually trending down over the past two weeks from the 30s. But, of course, off much bigger bases each time.

    - at least some of the increase in infections is due to the Italians doing much, much more testing. In the last two days, the number tested has risen from (and again excuse my maths here) 17,000 to 33,000. This means the proportion testing positive has gone from 30% to 20%.

    I do wonder if total lockdowns have the potential to be counterproductive, at least in the short term. Because it basically ensures that (especially in small flats) whole families/groups living together will be infected whereas before they may have previously had a fair level of distancing and/or non operation of “common” hours etc
  • Barnesian
    Barnesian Posts: 9,221
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    I have found a packet of unopened spaghetti in the cupboard, use by dated 2014.

    At what price should I start the bidding?

    I can beat that. I have a packet of Lasagne best by 2006 and another use by 2009. I'm working backwards from one dated 2016 which I cooked and ate two days ago. Delicious.


  • kinabalu
    kinabalu Posts: 46,273
    edited March 2020
    Charles said:

    A business that is not "seriously struggling" would rather have people remain in employment and working. It might trim back individuals, but if it decided to do that then it wouldn't be interested in a 3 month option to keep them on. Retail stores or others that have no revenues in this situation simply would have to fire people, which is what the package avoids.

    That will no doubt cover most scenarios. I'm not saying otherwise. I'm postulating a couple of other scenarios that will probably also occur.

    1. A business that would have struggled on for a while without the package decides instead to close now for at least 3 months.

    2. A business not struggling that has people WFH due to the crisis re-designates them as being on furlough due to the crisis, thus unlocking the 80%

    Yes?
This discussion has been closed.

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