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  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Tenerife news. There was a woman in M&S yesterday just back from Tenerife because everything is locked down there. Apparently the authorities here don't care about people returning from hotspots abroad. Btw, why do M&S till staff insist on wasting time engaging shoppers in conversation? Is it a ploy to increase return visits by lonely customers?

    Tenerife a hot spot? 348 cases spread across seven islands, parts of London are a lot hotter. The plane would have been a risk yes.
  • DensparkDenspark Posts: 68

    We have a bunch of R5 commentators doing bugger all. They could just - you know, make stuff up! Pretendy commentaries. Some soundtrack of "oohs!" and "aaahs" and "who's the wanker in the black?". Who'd know? Even the pauses for VAR decisions would be entertaining....

    We have a bunch of R5 commentators doing bugger all. They could just - you know, make stuff up! Pretendy commentaries. Some soundtrack of "oohs!" and "aaahs" and "who's the wanker in the black?". Who'd know? Even the pauses for VAR decisions would be entertaining....

    Bbc have done it before...

    http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/retro/228444/retro-football-war-effort-forces-bbc-to-commentate-on-imaginary-match-as-thick-fog-envelopes-hibs-hearts-derby-on-new-years-day-1940.html
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Also, am I the only one on the UHT milk...that stuff is bloody disgusting on its own...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    ydoethur said:

    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...

    I think you'll find that most people on this forum have at least little more food stocked than they normally would. It's only human to buy a little more when you notice shortages. And if everyone buys a little more, it disrupts the supply chain and you get empty shelves. Rinse and repeat.

    At some point, hopefully in the near future, the supermarkets will be able to keep the shelves filled for long enough to convince people that there is no shortage, and the cycle will be broken.
    At risk of bringing down the pb average, apart from a couple of tins of mackerel, I've no food at all, nor hand sanitiser come to that. Provided the fish and chip shop stays open, I should be OK.
    So just to be clear - if we go into total lockdown, you starve?
    Yes. There was a mild scare yesterday with the restaurants closure but takeaways were spared. But paradoxically, total lockdown might lead to more secure food supplies.
    The take ways will go next when someone realizes that unless you queue outside, one meter apart , it’s not really any better than a pub or restaurant.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    Denspark said:

    Remember the good old days when we used to have soccer and rugby on Saturday afternoons and at this point 2.44pm we'd just be waiting for the kick offs.

    As a Dundee season ticketholder I'm finding my saturday's to be a lot more relaxed without the whole quiet desperation at 245pm sliding into the outraged desperation at 445pm.
    You will be dreading the football starting up again, at least this way you don't lose.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...

    I think you'll find that most people on this forum have at least little more food stocked than they normally would. It's only human to buy a little more when you notice shortages. And if everyone buys a little more, it disrupts the supply chain and you get empty shelves. Rinse and repeat.

    At some point, hopefully in the near future, the supermarkets will be able to keep the shelves filled for long enough to convince people that there is no shortage, and the cycle will be broken.
    At risk of bringing down the pb average, apart from a couple of tins of mackerel, I've no food at all, nor hand sanitiser come to that. Provided the fish and chip shop stays open, I should be OK.
    So just to be clear - if we go into total lockdown, you starve?
    Yes. There was a mild scare yesterday with the restaurants closure but takeaways were spared. But paradoxically, total lockdown might lead to more secure food supplies.
    The take ways will go next when someone realizes that unless you queue outside, one meter apart , it’s not really any better than a pub or restaurant.
    It really should be via delivery service or drive-through only.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Also, am I the only one on the UHT milk...that stuff is bloody disgusting on its own...

    You can freeze normal milk these days. Reduced fat works better than full, and rotate it so it isn't there longer than 3 months.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358

    Tenerife news. There was a woman in M&S yesterday just back from Tenerife because everything is locked down there. Apparently the authorities here don't care about people returning from hotspots abroad. Btw, why do M&S till staff insist on wasting time engaging shoppers in conversation? Is it a ploy to increase return visits by lonely customers?

    Would you prefer them to treat you like shit, are you short on the milk of human kindness. Did you ever think they might just be nice caring people.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    Does anyone have the numbers for panicky food hoarding London Area vs the rest?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    IshmaelZ said:

    Also, am I the only one on the UHT milk...that stuff is bloody disgusting on its own...

    You can freeze normal milk these days. Reduced fat works better than full, and rotate it so it isn't there longer than 3 months.
    I actually have a delivery booked for 2 weeks time, and getting a crate of almond milk instead. After that, I won't be reliant on another food delivery for at least 2 months if I am willing to only eating frozen veg / fruit.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    malcolmg said:

    Tenerife news. There was a woman in M&S yesterday just back from Tenerife because everything is locked down there. Apparently the authorities here don't care about people returning from hotspots abroad. Btw, why do M&S till staff insist on wasting time engaging shoppers in conversation? Is it a ploy to increase return visits by lonely customers?

    Would you prefer them to treat you like shit, are you short on the milk of human kindness. Did you ever think they might just be nice caring people.
    To be fair, it`s very annoying when in a supermarket queue the till person is engaging in small-talk with the person in front.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    MaxPB said:

    No, the employees get the money, it is paid into the PAYE account by HMRC (negative income tax, basically). The company has no control over it. It's actually a difficult system to game or abuse as it's only for existing employees and it's paid via a very secure system.

    The employee gets the money, yes, but the employer is saved the money that they would otherwise pay.

    So an example of how to game it -

    A company with white collar staff and enough reserves to ride out the crisis for a while. Pre Sunak they have sent some of their people home to "work". They are technically WFH although in reality the firm can carry on OK without them. They are just doing some emails, some reports, some video meetings, all of that stuff. There is no intention to fire these people atm.

    Now, post Sunak. The company designates these WFH people as no longer working from home but on furlough due to the crisis.

    The vault is open. Company better off to the tune of £7500 per worker over the 3 months - and for longer if extended.

    Perhaps when the detail is known there will be controls to stop this.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    There's been reports of this from almost the beginning of the outbreak. That's just one of many reasons why the mitigation strategy was obviously an enormous risk. Okay with something you know like the flu but we just don't have reliable data on the full implications of this virus.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    David is full of the joys of spring!
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    edited March 2020

    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...

    I think you'll find that most people on this forum have at least little more food stocked than they normally would. It's only human to buy a little more when you notice shortages. And if everyone buys a little more, it disrupts the supply chain and you get empty shelves. Rinse and repeat.

    At some point, hopefully in the near future, the supermarkets will be able to keep the shelves filled for long enough to convince people that there is no shortage, and the cycle will be broken.
    At risk of bringing down the pb average, apart from a couple of tins of mackerel, I've no food at all, nor hand sanitiser come to that. Provided the fish and chip shop stays open, I should be OK.
    It'd be helpful if there was a consensus on what a reasonable stock is. I live alone and stocked up with 2 weeks' supply before the crisis took off, on the basis that if I needed to self-isolate for a fortnight that'd cover it, and otherwise I would just shop normally. But as I'm 70 I'm not really supposed to shop now, nor are the delivery schees working, and I don't expect anyone to make a special effort for me as I'm not ill.

    So what do we collectively think is a fair share? 3 weeks' stock?
    We have about 3 weeks pasta and rice and tins....for some reason my fridge is full of carrots and nothing much else....very bad planning, my wife us fuming with me, but shopping is not my forte


  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Covid-19 might not be the worst threat to the earth right now...

    https://twitter.com/hamillhimself/status/1241127685717233665?s=21
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358

    Also, am I the only one on the UHT milk...that stuff is bloody disgusting on its own...

    My wife bought a stack of it , supposedly going by the reviews it tastes just like normal milk, have yet to try it, hopefully it tastes better than yours.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226

    Remember the good old days when we used to have soccer and rugby on Saturday afternoons and at this point 2.44pm we'd just be waiting for the kick offs.

    I actually barely do. Which is something in itself.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...

    I think you'll find that most people on this forum have at least little more food stocked than they normally would. It's only human to buy a little more when you notice shortages. And if everyone buys a little more, it disrupts the supply chain and you get empty shelves. Rinse and repeat.

    At some point, hopefully in the near future, the supermarkets will be able to keep the shelves filled for long enough to convince people that there is no shortage, and the cycle will be broken.
    At risk of bringing down the pb average, apart from a couple of tins of mackerel, I've no food at all, nor hand sanitiser come to that. Provided the fish and chip shop stays open, I should be OK.
    It'd be helpful if there was a consensus on what a reasonable stock is. I live alone and stocked up with 2 weeks' supply before the crisis took off, on the basis that if I needed to self-isolate for a fortnight that'd cover it, and otherwise I would just shop normally. But as I'm 70 I'm not really supposed to shop now, nor are the delivery schees working, and I don't expect anyone to make a special effort for me as I'm not ill.

    So what do we collectively think is a fair share? 3 weeks' stock?
    You raise an important question.

    If the over 70’s and at risk groups are meant to self-isolate for 12 weeks then isn’t that how much food and stores they need at home?

    Otherwise they are having to rely on deliveries. And how easily can you get them within a reasonable time frame? Or creeping out to the shops? Or helpful neighbours?

    I am relying on my daughter, what I have in stock and my husband. He has been called to London for Tuesday for a cost hearing. The fee is pitiful but, more worryingly, he does not really want to go to London, risk catching the virus and return here and put us at risk. Plus he is not exactly young.

    His clerk is being bloody feeble about getting a junior barrister to take over, though.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    kjh said:

    So we have moved from a household of 2 to a household of 5 as my daughter returns from Liverpool Uni where she is doing her degree and my son and his girlfriend (who is Rumanian and therefore completely snookered) return from Cambridge where they are doing their Ph.Ds.

    I went to Sainsbury's after the lunatics had been. The shop was not only empty of pasta, rice and flour but also of people.

    They have a limit of 3 items on everything and 2 on certain in demand items. This is being taken to an extreme as my bunch of bananas was split and 3 returned to me and my carrots and parsnip also confiscated and limited to limit of 3.

    Yes (!) we have 3 bananas. We have 3 bananas today ... :smile:
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,805
    ydoethur said:

    kjh said:

    So we have moved from a household of 2 to a household of 5 as my daughter returns from Liverpool Uni where she is doing her degree and my son and his girlfriend (who is Rumanian and therefore completely snookered) return from Cambridge where they are doing their Ph.Ds.

    I went to Sainsbury's after the lunatics had been. The shop was not only empty of pasta, rice and flour but also of people.

    They have a limit of 3 items on everything and 2 on certain in demand items. This is being taken to an extreme as my bunch of bananas was split and 3 returned to me and my carrots and parsnip also confiscated and limited to limit of 3.

    It is going to be fun sharing that around 5 people.

    Bizarrely the shelves were heaving with bananas.

    Would they have applied that to loose seeded goods?

    If so, can we all agree that’s nuts?
    Ha ha ha. :)

    I could have bought carrots in a bag and then had 3 bags of them and I did buy 5 courgettes in a bag.

    I did offer to open my bag of radishes and only keep 3, but that was declined.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    malcolmg said:

    Also, am I the only one on the UHT milk...that stuff is bloody disgusting on its own...

    My wife bought a stack of it , supposedly going by the reviews it tastes just like normal milk, have yet to try it, hopefully it tastes better than yours.
    Very little fresh milk sold in spain even in normal times - I've drunk a semi-skimmed version of Flora they sell here and preferred it to fresh milk from day 1.
  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    malcolmg said:

    Tenerife news. There was a woman in M&S yesterday just back from Tenerife because everything is locked down there. Apparently the authorities here don't care about people returning from hotspots abroad. Btw, why do M&S till staff insist on wasting time engaging shoppers in conversation? Is it a ploy to increase return visits by lonely customers?

    Would you prefer them to treat you like shit, are you short on the milk of human kindness. Did you ever think they might just be nice caring people.
    Priceless! :smile:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    A supplementary, if I may, @Cyclefree .

    How hard can I cut into the old wood to reshape the bush, and what impact will that have?

    Thanks

    MattW
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    malcolmg said:

    Also, am I the only one on the UHT milk...that stuff is bloody disgusting on its own...

    My wife bought a stack of it , supposedly going by the reviews it tastes just like normal milk, have yet to try it, hopefully it tastes better than yours.
    As a man famously hard to impress, don't get your hopes up. I fully expect you to be ranting harder than when a Tory does a press conference in a week or so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Tenerife news. There was a woman in M&S yesterday just back from Tenerife because everything is locked down there. Apparently the authorities here don't care about people returning from hotspots abroad. Btw, why do M&S till staff insist on wasting time engaging shoppers in conversation? Is it a ploy to increase return visits by lonely customers?

    Would you prefer them to treat you like shit, are you short on the milk of human kindness. Did you ever think they might just be nice caring people.
    To be fair, it`s very annoying when in a supermarket queue the till person is engaging in small-talk with the person in front.
    It is only a few minutes at worst , people are too uptight and insular. For some people it may be the only conversation they have for days or all week. People have lost the plot nowadays.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    So we have moved from a household of 2 to a household of 5 as my daughter returns from Liverpool Uni where she is doing her degree and my son and his girlfriend (who is Rumanian and therefore completely snookered) return from Cambridge where they are doing their Ph.Ds.

    I went to Sainsbury's after the lunatics had been. The shop was not only empty of pasta, rice and flour but also of people.

    They have a limit of 3 items on everything and 2 on certain in demand items. This is being taken to an extreme as my bunch of bananas was split and 3 returned to me and my carrots and parsnip also confiscated and limited to limit of 3.

    Yes (!) we have 3 bananas. We have 3 bananas today ... :smile:
    However, your coconuts don't look so lovely....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    Also, am I the only one on the UHT milk...that stuff is bloody disgusting on its own...

    My wife bought a stack of it , supposedly going by the reviews it tastes just like normal milk, have yet to try it, hopefully it tastes better than yours.
    Very little fresh milk sold in spain even in normal times - I've drunk a semi-skimmed version of Flora they sell here and preferred it to fresh milk from day 1.
    Sounds promising , this one is imported.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    My sister and husband- both teachers nearing retirement- have put themselves forward as volunteers for minding the children of key workers in their schools in London (these kids are likely to be exposed to the virus because of what their parents are doing)

    Some people are making huge sacrifices
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    kinabalu said:


    Yes (!) we have 3 bananas. We have 3 bananas today ... :smile:

    As long as they only restrict me to 3 bottles of whisky, that should last me the day.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    A hearing has been ordered by the high court after Detention Action launched a landmark legal challenge following the government’s written response to the claim. The challenge is thought to be the first Covid-19-related case listed in England and Wales.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    MattW said:

    Does anyone have the numbers for panicky food hoarding London Area vs the rest?

    Inner London, ex-industrial parts of North, some parts of Wales, in these area it seems more problematic. Lower-income areas in general, and where there might be less access to smaller and more expensive food shops, rather than geographically specific.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358

    malcolmg said:

    Tenerife news. There was a woman in M&S yesterday just back from Tenerife because everything is locked down there. Apparently the authorities here don't care about people returning from hotspots abroad. Btw, why do M&S till staff insist on wasting time engaging shoppers in conversation? Is it a ploy to increase return visits by lonely customers?

    Would you prefer them to treat you like shit, are you short on the milk of human kindness. Did you ever think they might just be nice caring people.
    Priceless! :smile:
    Costs nothing to be a Gentleman for sure
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    edited March 2020
    Regarding panic buying, it occurs to me that it might not necessarily be caused by some people buying large quantities of the same items. If a shop has 500 packets of pasta you only need a relatively small number of people in a densely-populated area to buy two or three packets for it to run out, even if no-one selfishly buys 10 packets.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    UHT is fine for making yogurt with.
    Otherwise completely disgusting and I rank people who say they like it along with Pineapple on Pizza lovers.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,117
    I really do feel sorry for the people lined up behind Trump at his press conferences.....somehow they have to avoid showing complete and utter revulsion about the stuff he comes out with
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    nichomar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...

    I think you'll find that most people on this forum have at least little more food stocked than they normally would. It's only human to buy a little more when you notice shortages. And if everyone buys a little more, it disrupts the supply chain and you get empty shelves. Rinse and repeat.

    At some point, hopefully in the near future, the supermarkets will be able to keep the shelves filled for long enough to convince people that there is no shortage, and the cycle will be broken.
    At risk of bringing down the pb average, apart from a couple of tins of mackerel, I've no food at all, nor hand sanitiser come to that. Provided the fish and chip shop stays open, I should be OK.
    So just to be clear - if we go into total lockdown, you starve?
    Yes. There was a mild scare yesterday with the restaurants closure but takeaways were spared. But paradoxically, total lockdown might lead to more secure food supplies.
    The take ways will go next when someone realizes that unless you queue outside, one meter apart , it’s not really any better than a pub or restaurant.
    Indeed. The restrictions do seem a bit arbitrary. Perhaps there is an ISIL mole in Whitehall who hates enjoyment and pleasure. I've never been to a massage parlour but had always imagined that a measure of privacy was involved. Restaurants, art galleries, betting shops, what is the common factor? Religious observance seems to have escaped, despite its being a factor in Italy and Korea. Next month sees Easter, Passover and Ramadan. What about shopping, where "rationing" and shortages mandate repeat visits?
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    Andy_JS said:

    Regarding panic buying, it occurs to me that it might not necessarily be caused by some people buying large quantities of the same items. If a shop has 500 packets of pasta you only need a relatively small number of people in a densely-populated area to buy two or three packets for it to run out, even if no-one selfishly buys 10 packets.

    The problem is that people are getting themselves into a self-righteous rage about "other people" panic buying, which in in itself can increase the aggravation in supermarkets and the breakdown of community spirit. It's often assumed to be other people, rather many people themselves taking what could be considered a rationally larger than usual amount. There are people at the absurd extremes, like those well-publicised wheeling out 12 packs of 24 toilet rolls, but these don't account for the majority of the empty shelves.

    One approach could be for supermarkets to start increasing attempts to verify the age of buyers relative to how much they're buying, or the age of those bought for , as well as increasing attempts to verify for health and emergency workers.

    Taken altogether this could possibly become difficult, cumbersome and bureaucratic, and easy to get around, but something like this for a situation as difficult as this might be better than nothing.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    Alistair said:

    UHT is fine for making yogurt with.
    Otherwise completely disgusting and I rank people who say they like it along with Pineapple on Pizza lovers.

    Thanks for that and I have a shedload to go through
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    Stocky said:

    To be fair, it`s very annoying when in a supermarket queue the till person is engaging in small-talk with the person in front.

    That drives me nuts. When it happens - and particularly if the person in front of me doing the chatting is a little old lady - I always have a strong urge to deliver a poleaxing rabbit punch.

    To my great credit, however, I have never done so and I'm reasonably confident I never will.

    #morethatunites
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127

    ydoethur said:

    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...

    I think you'll find that most people on this forum have at least little more food stocked than they normally would. It's only human to buy a little more when you notice shortages. And if everyone buys a little more, it disrupts the supply chain and you get empty shelves. Rinse and repeat.

    At some point, hopefully in the near future, the supermarkets will be able to keep the shelves filled for long enough to convince people that there is no shortage, and the cycle will be broken.
    At risk of bringing down the pb average, apart from a couple of tins of mackerel, I've no food at all, nor hand sanitiser come to that. Provided the fish and chip shop stays open, I should be OK.
    So just to be clear - if we go into total lockdown, you starve?
    Yes. There was a mild scare yesterday with the restaurants closure but takeaways were spared. But paradoxically, total lockdown might lead to more secure food supplies.
    If we go on total lockdown, i don't think takeaways will be open. What was announced yesterday was in reality just 'closing all social spaces'.

    OH tells me the beach was packed today with dog walkers. I stayed at home to accept the shopping delivery....
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    Alistair said:

    UHT is fine for making yogurt with.
    Otherwise completely disgusting and I rank people who say they like it along with Pineapple on Pizza lovers.

    People get used to anything. My uncle, as a child, disliked fresh milk as he was used to powdered milk during the war - had never had any other kind, in fact.

    On supermarkets, I must admit I go to them normally partly because I don't want to waste time talking about the weather to a not-really-interested assistant in a small shop, and I do self-checkout for the same reason. But if one queues up for a cashier, having a chat goes with the territory, and is one reason why some people prefer it.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Coronavirus UK : 8,000 more hospital beds and 20,000 extra staff join COVID-19 fight
    Nearly 20,000 fully qualified staff will join the NHS response to coronavirus after a deal with the private sector which will include 8,000 more hospital beds being made available.
    More follows...

    Sky News
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    A supplementary, if I may, @Cyclefree .

    How hard can I cut into the old wood to reshape the bush, and what impact will that have?

    Thanks

    MattW
    If you've cut your wood to reshape your bush, you've cut way too fa....

    Oh, the forsythia.....
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,680
    malcolmg said:

    Stocky said:

    malcolmg said:

    Tenerife news. There was a woman in M&S yesterday just back from Tenerife because everything is locked down there. Apparently the authorities here don't care about people returning from hotspots abroad. Btw, why do M&S till staff insist on wasting time engaging shoppers in conversation? Is it a ploy to increase return visits by lonely customers?

    Would you prefer them to treat you like shit, are you short on the milk of human kindness. Did you ever think they might just be nice caring people.
    To be fair, it`s very annoying when in a supermarket queue the till person is engaging in small-talk with the person in front.
    It is only a few minutes at worst , people are too uptight and insular. For some people it may be the only conversation they have for days or all week. People have lost the plot nowadays.
    And as the shops that stocked his favourites receded
    whereas he’d fancied beans and popped next door,
    he found that four long treks a week were needed
    till he wondered what he bothered eating for.

    The supermarket made him feel embarrassed.
    Where people bought whole lambs for family freezers
    he bought baked beans from check-out girls too harassed
    to smile or swap a joke with sad old geezers.

    But when he bought his cigs he’d have a chat,
    his week’s one conversation, truth to tell,
    but time also came and put a stop to that
    when old Wattsy got bought out by M. Patel.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    A supplementary, if I may, @Cyclefree .

    How hard can I cut into the old wood to reshape the bush, and what impact will that have?

    Thanks

    MattW
    Next year’s flowers will grow from the new wood that grows this year. So if you cut back hard on the old wood you will sacrifice a lot of this year’s flowers but get a much better shape / bush next year.

    If it’s already flowering I would do an initial cut to get a better shape while it is flowering. Then once finished flowering, you can go in hard and cut back a third to a quarter of the stems right back - especially in the centre of the bush to let light and sun in.

    If it is really very overgrown, you can just wait until flowering is over and then cut everything right back to 4/5 inches above the ground and you effectively start again with a new small plant, which if you prune regularly will stay a nice shape and size for you.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    felix said:

    Coronavirus UK : 8,000 more hospital beds and 20,000 extra staff join COVID-19 fight
    Nearly 20,000 fully qualified staff will join the NHS response to coronavirus after a deal with the private sector which will include 8,000 more hospital beds being made available.
    More follows...

    Sky News

    They still need to fire up the Quattro on getting those ventilators being banged out morning, noon and night.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Scott_xP said:
    Wow!

    Will their online service continue? Nothing on their website atm.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    A supplementary, if I may, @Cyclefree .

    How hard can I cut into the old wood to reshape the bush, and what impact will that have?

    Thanks

    MattW
    If you've cut your wood to reshape your bush, you've cut way too fa....

    Oh, the forsythia.....
    Behave!!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wow!

    Will their online service continue? Nothing on their website atm.
    It is AFAIK an entirely separate fulfilment arm of the biz. I'd be staggered if it didn't keep going for much longer than the shops.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Scott_xP said:
    All resources being handed over at cost - so no profit will be made....so all that bollocks R5 allowed to be spread last week about government getting ripped off at x50 the cost, was just errhhh there is a phrase for this, I just can't remember what is it...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,557
    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    Thank-you.

    I have inherited about 4 pairs of secateurs, so I will sally forth with one of those.
    For the record, this may be the first time a PB posting would be of use or interest to my wife.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    If only the government could strike such good deals with private companies normally !!!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited March 2020

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    https://twitter.com/ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited March 2020
    Scott_xP said:
    This is a possible example of the "gaming" of Sunak's package that I posted about earlier.

    JL can place employees "on furlough" and pay 20% of wages instead of 100%.

    They can do this even if without the package they were not going to fire people at this point.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Cyclefree said:

    MattW said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    A supplementary, if I may, @Cyclefree .

    How hard can I cut into the old wood to reshape the bush, and what impact will that have?

    Thanks

    MattW
    If you've cut your wood to reshape your bush, you've cut way too fa....

    Oh, the forsythia.....
    Behave!!
    I haven't yet found a tone I can't lower....
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    kinabalu said:

    Stocky said:

    To be fair, it`s very annoying when in a supermarket queue the till person is engaging in small-talk with the person in front.

    That drives me nuts. When it happens - and particularly if the person in front of me doing the chatting is a little old lady - I always have a strong urge to deliver a poleaxing rabbit punch.

    To my great credit, however, I have never done so and I'm reasonably confident I never will.

    #morethatunites
    Another one bereft of the milk of human kindness, a poor old lady taking her only opportunity of the week to have a minutes chat and you dreaming of beating up the poor old soul.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,604
    edited March 2020
    Today's data. I've added Spain and Iran. Sorry it makes it a bit more cluttered.




  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Scott_xP said:
    Nurses and ODPs, yes, but nearly all the Medics are part timers, with part time in the NHS, so staffing and supervision remain significant.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wow!

    Will their online service continue? Nothing on their website atm.
    According to the Graurdian...

    The online site will continue to operate as normal, alongside Waitrose physical and online shops.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    Cyclefree said:


    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    CYCLEFREE’s GARDENING CORNER

    In response to @MattW’s question re pruning of forsythia.

    1. Get some sharp clean secateurs so the cut is a clean one. You don’t want to be tearing at the twigs or branches.

    2. No problem with pruning now - or you could wait until it’s finished flowering. The advantage of pruning now is that the stems with flowers you cut off can be put in the house to brighten it. The forsythia will still flower next year. It’s a tough old plant.

    3. Lop off all the long extra stems that are sticking out. Then gradually cut down to the height and width you want. Aim to make it a rounded shape - a bit like a rounded arch - so that it looks pleasing to you and so as you pass it there aren’t bits sticking into you or catching. There is no magic to this - just step back every few minutes just to look at it form different angles.

    4. The key to this is to remember that all plants will grow up to the light so if you leave the they will just reach for the sky. If untouched this ends up leaving you with lots of flowers at the top and bare branches at the bottom. So by cutting at the top and cutting the shoots heading skywards you force the plant to send out side shoots which will flower and it will look rounder and squatter and fatter so you get a burst of really bright yellow sunshine just where you want it.

    5. Cut just above a flower or bud - a nice neat cut and sloping downwards. This minimises the possibility of any infection. Cut right down to the base any stems which look empty or straggly.

    Plants are fine with pruning. It generally makes them stronger. Forsythia is as tough as old boots.

    How is your daughter coping?
    Yesterday was, understandably, quite an emotional day for her. For her team. For us all. It’s a family business now.

    The pub/restaurant is right in the centre of the village - everyone goes there to meet, chat, share gossip,information, look out for each other. A lot of business gets done there - it’s not just a drinking and eating venue. So it will be missed and my daughter will find the social isolation by contrast with her normal every day busyness very hard - harder than for me, I suspect.

    She has a good business brain though and a toughness which will help. I am so proud of her.

    She has already started a takeaway / delivery service - including for some essential goods - targeted on the isolated so as a social service as much as anything. She has volunteers to help. She will look to see how the latest proposals will help and she will need to have a conversation with her landlord about the rent.

    The biggest difficulty is not knowing the timescale. If this goes on for a year, the decision is a very different one to a 3-month shutdown. And no-one knows.

    What breaks my heart is that a few weeks ago she was talking excitedly about various plans she had to expand business / had prepared lots of varied menus - they were changed every week - and had plans to go into the holiday rental / B&B market. All on hold and very possibly ended now. All that hope crushed - or so it feels like. So I am going to do whatever I can to support her.

    I have also urged my 2 sons, who were job-hunting to look at those supermarket jobs. Any work is better than none. This is no time for snobbery about graduate jobs, frankly.

    Best wishes to @Charles for his Dad, @MaxPB and @GideonWise.
    Best of luck.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,226
    edited March 2020
    malcolmg said:

    Another one bereft of the milk of human kindness, a poor old lady taking her only opportunity of the week to have a minutes chat and you dreaming of beating up the poor old soul.

    :smile:

    Not "dream of" - it's more one of those bad "urges" that we all have and fight back.

    Like jumping in front of a train. Bet you get that one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Much better...no waffle, straight to the point.

    https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/status/1241388730180608003?s=20
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767

    If only the government could strike such good deals with private companies normally !!!

    Grayling's your man.
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited March 2020

    Much better...no waffle, straight to the point.

    Corbyn won the argument. We appear to have become Venezuela...
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    Barnesian said:

    Today's data. I've added Spain and Iran. Sorry it makes it a bit more cluttered.




    South Korea is again the one that stands out from all the rest, on what looks like possibly genuine accurate figures.

    I'm not denying that China may have it well under control, as if I think they would find it hard to hide it if it wasn't at least significantly under control, but compared to the others, that line on the chinese graph looks as artificial as one of those drawn in the desert for cultural borders, by ex-colonial powers.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    If only the government could strike such good deals with private companies normally !!!

    Grayling's your man.
    God if he was in charge, he would have done a deal with private hospitals in the Caribbean...with the plan to use all those ferries to get people there.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358

    Scott_xP said:
    All resources being handed over at cost - so no profit will be made....so all that bollocks R5 allowed to be spread last week about government getting ripped off at x50 the cost, was just errhhh there is a phrase for this, I just can't remember what is it...
    Hopefully it does not scupper my wife's treatment, NHS part already stymied.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Had to drive out to get part for wife’s wheelchair. There was so much traffic. There were long queues at the tip. Everything seemed open as usual. People were out and about.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited March 2020

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 52% of Chinese men being smokers.

    "Smoking Status
    Out of 1085 patients with acute respiratory disease due to SARS-CoV-2 in China11, 85% had no
    history of smoking, 13% were current smokers, and 2% had smoked in the past. This contrasts
    with the known high smoking prevalence in China of 27.7% (52.1% among men and 2.7%
    among women) in 2015. "

    From the Singapore website that I linked to before.

    Smokers who get it get it badly though, with an ods ratio of 14 of dying from it.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    IanB2 said:

    Clear message today, stop being self centred tw@ts you inconsiderate arseholes who are hoarding food...

    I think you'll find that most people on this forum have at least little more food stocked than they normally would. It's only human to buy a little more when you notice shortages. And if everyone buys a little more, it disrupts the supply chain and you get empty shelves. Rinse and repeat.

    At some point, hopefully in the near future, the supermarkets will be able to keep the shelves filled for long enough to convince people that there is no shortage, and the cycle will be broken.
    At risk of bringing down the pb average, apart from a couple of tins of mackerel, I've no food at all, nor hand sanitiser come to that. Provided the fish and chip shop stays open, I should be OK.
    It'd be helpful if there was a consensus on what a reasonable stock is. I live alone and stocked up with 2 weeks' supply before the crisis took off, on the basis that if I needed to self-isolate for a fortnight that'd cover it, and otherwise I would just shop normally. But as I'm 70 I'm not really supposed to shop now, nor are the delivery schees working, and I don't expect anyone to make a special effort for me as I'm not ill.

    So what do we collectively think is a fair share? 3 weeks' stock?
    Surely, if you are sitting on your PC gaming all day, all you need to survive is a crate of Pringles, and another of beer? ;)
    ... per day of course.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Re the mass purchases, just do what maxPB said the other day, 1 item £1, 2 items £2, 3+ of an item £100. No need then to employ the stockpile police.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Barnesian said:

    Today's data. I've added Spain and Iran. Sorry it makes it a bit more cluttered.




    Spain looking to overtake Iran - which is a bit scary (if you believe the numbers from Iran).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 45% of Chinese men being smokers.

    Is that true? I hadn't heard that. I also find that really hard to believe, given the huge percentage of smokers and what this disease does.

    One thought would be air pollution is really bad there though.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Cyclefree said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Wow!

    Will their online service continue? Nothing on their website atm.
    Most non-food retailers are likely to close up within the next week or so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,358
    kinabalu said:

    malcolmg said:

    Another one bereft of the milk of human kindness, a poor old lady taking her only opportunity of the week to have a minutes chat and you dreaming of beating up the poor old soul.

    :smile:

    Not "dream of" - it's more one of those bad "urges" that we all have and fight back.

    Like jumping in front of a train. Bet you get that one.
    I can safely say I have never thought of jumping in front of a train, you sound a bit worrying. I have thought of punching a good few but not old ladies.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    edited March 2020
    Andrew Cuomo, New York Governor, is very Trumpian in many ways.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 45% of Chinese men being smokers.

    That is entirely counter-intuitive.

    Unless smoke/nicotine/lung damage in some way stops the disease taking hold?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 45% of Chinese men being smokers.

    That is entirely counter-intuitive.

    Unless smoke/nicotine/lung damage in some way stops the disease taking hold?
    Better get down the shops and start bulk buying ciggies...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 45% of Chinese men being smokers.

    Is that true? I hadn't heard that. I also find that really hard to believe, given the huge percentage of smokers and what this disease does.

    One thought would be air pollution is really bad there though.
    I have added a reference by edit.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    edited March 2020
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is a possible example of the "gaming" of Sunak's package that I posted about earlier.

    JL can place employees "on furlough" and pay 20% of wages instead of 100%.

    They can do this even if without the package they were not going to fire people at this point.
    But the incentive is there to stop non essential travel AND not make redundancies.

    Employees travelling to Peter Jones is not essential
    People wanting a new colander is not essential.

    What you call 'gaming' is the system working....

    Plus, JL are struggling at the moment. I wouldn't have been surprised if those who were in shops and had less than 2 years under their belt would have been made redundant when shops were closed.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Barnesian said:

    Today's data. I've added Spain and Iran. Sorry it makes it a bit more cluttered.




    Is it me or are some of those curves rising less steeply now?
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is a possible example of the "gaming" of Sunak's package that I posted about earlier.

    JL can place employees "on furlough" and pay 20% of wages instead of 100%.

    They can do this even if without the package they were not going to fire people at this point.
    I think it is more a function of the John Lewis clientelle being people who take the social distancing seriously, so not going to department stores.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited March 2020
    The crisis is exposing many of the cracked undersides of Britain's public support and infrastructure over many years. Hopefully a silver lining, in a new era of different government support, will be to the put to bed once and for all some of the myths about incomes that have fed the neo-victorian atmosphere on welfare of the last 40 years, which have weakened both the economy and society for very little gain.

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/21/food-banks-plead-with-uk-supermarkets-to-set-aside-supplies-amid-coronavirus-fallout

    "Many food banks said they were finding it impossible to replenish food stocks, even as thousands more people turned to them for help, and others said they had been overwhelmed as hundreds of elderly volunteer regulars were forced to go into self-isolation."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 52% of Chinese men being smokers.

    "Smoking Status
    Out of 1085 patients with acute respiratory disease due to SARS-CoV-2 in China11, 85% had no
    history of smoking, 13% were current smokers, and 2% had smoked in the past. This contrasts
    with the known high smoking prevalence in China of 27.7% (52.1% among men and 2.7%
    among women) in 2015. "

    From the Singapore website that I linked to before.

    Smokers who get it get it badly though, with an ods ratio of 14 of dying from it.
    How would they know whether someone was a smoker or not? Surely they don't track and monitor people that intensively in China...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    eristdoof said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is a possible example of the "gaming" of Sunak's package that I posted about earlier.

    JL can place employees "on furlough" and pay 20% of wages instead of 100%.

    They can do this even if without the package they were not going to fire people at this point.
    I think it is more a function of the John Lewis clientelle being people who take the social distancing seriously, so not going to department stores.
    That isn't my experience at all.

    It is another one of those irregulars:

    I have an essential trip to make
    You should be socially isolating
    They are all being entirely inconsiderate.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is a possible example of the "gaming" of Sunak's package that I posted about earlier.

    JL can place employees "on furlough" and pay 20% of wages instead of 100%.

    They can do this even if without the package they were not going to fire people at this point.
    But the incentive is to stop non essential travel.

    Employees travelling to Peter Jones is not essential
    People wanting a new colander is not essential.

    What you call 'gaming' is the system working....

    Plus, JL are struggling at the moment. I wouldn't have been surprised if those who were in shops and had less than 2 years under their belt would have been made redundant when shops were closed.
    It’s not the travel that needs to be stopped (or not just that) but the gathering of people in close proximity. A JL store is like a pub or restaurant writ large - not much social distancing possible. And if you can get the colander online why travel in?

    I wonder how many of their stores will reopen once this is over.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,119
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 45% of Chinese men being smokers.

    Is that true? I hadn't heard that. I also find that really hard to believe, given the huge percentage of smokers and what this disease does.

    One thought would be air pollution is really bad there though.
    I have added a reference by edit.
    From this though,

    Another pre-print study that has yet to be peer-reviewed found that cigarette smoking is associated with elevated ACE-2 receptor expression in the respiratory tract, and thus increases smokers’ susceptibility to COVID-19.

    https://sph.nus.edu.sg/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/COVID19-Science-Report-Whats-New-13-Mar.pdf
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 52% of Chinese men being smokers.

    "Smoking Status
    Out of 1085 patients with acute respiratory disease due to SARS-CoV-2 in China11, 85% had no
    history of smoking, 13% were current smokers, and 2% had smoked in the past. This contrasts
    with the known high smoking prevalence in China of 27.7% (52.1% among men and 2.7%
    among women) in 2015. "

    From the Singapore website that I linked to before.

    Smokers who get it get it badly though, with an ods ratio of 14 of dying from it.
    How would they know whether someone was a smoker or not? Surely they don't track and monitor people that intensively in China...
    It says history, so they asked the patient.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 45% of Chinese men being smokers.

    That is entirely counter-intuitive.

    Unless smoke/nicotine/lung damage in some way stops the disease taking hold?
    Better get down the shops and start bulk buying ciggies...
    I imagine the import of dodgy fags will have taken a hit by next month.

    The drugs trade is going to have to get quite creative too.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Andy_JS said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    Reas an interesting thread the other day about SARS survivors. Most who survived had long term damage to their lungs and have not fully recovered.

    We could well be looking at a massive rise in the number of disabled people after this is all over.

    That are lots of the reports coming out of China. Lots of survivors with significant lung damage, which they don't know how permanent it is.
    It's more the myocarditis that concerns me. It seems to feature in a minority with the condition.
    We just don't know what the long term will be yet.

    The links here to a Singapore School of Public Health are really excellent for those interested in science rather than rumour.

    ubcprez/status/1239990410736357376?s=19
    Not necessarily myocarditis, but some other things, I guess one thing we have to be a little bit careful of is did the patients have undiagnosed problems before they got it. I mean 80% of Chinese men smoking (or whatever the % is), you shouldn't really be shocked they already have quite screwed lungs and all the other conditions associated with it.
    One of the curiosities from China is that victims of Covid there were rarely smokers, despite 52% of Chinese men being smokers.

    "Smoking Status
    Out of 1085 patients with acute respiratory disease due to SARS-CoV-2 in China11, 85% had no
    history of smoking, 13% were current smokers, and 2% had smoked in the past. This contrasts
    with the known high smoking prevalence in China of 27.7% (52.1% among men and 2.7%
    among women) in 2015. "

    From the Singapore website that I linked to before.

    Smokers who get it get it badly though, with an ods ratio of 14 of dying from it.
    How would they know whether someone was a smoker or not? Surely they don't track and monitor people that intensively in China...
    It's a thing doctors ask when you present with any form of respiratory issue.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Cyclefree said:

    Mortimer said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:
    This is a possible example of the "gaming" of Sunak's package that I posted about earlier.

    JL can place employees "on furlough" and pay 20% of wages instead of 100%.

    They can do this even if without the package they were not going to fire people at this point.
    But the incentive is to stop non essential travel.

    Employees travelling to Peter Jones is not essential
    People wanting a new colander is not essential.

    What you call 'gaming' is the system working....

    Plus, JL are struggling at the moment. I wouldn't have been surprised if those who were in shops and had less than 2 years under their belt would have been made redundant when shops were closed.
    It’s not the travel that needs to be stopped (or not just that) but the gathering of people in close proximity. A JL store is like a pub or restaurant writ large - not much social distancing possible. And if you can get the colander online why travel in?

    I wonder how many of their stores will reopen once this is over.
    Indeed - I should have said travel and congregation.

    That is a very good question question re: how many will reopen.

    I did a project at HQ once - a fascinating (and frankly lovely) place to work. But that was a few years ago when their stores were strong and the web booming.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,601
    Lombardy: deaths +546 since yesterday. Total now 3,095.
  • 546 deaths in Italy today
This discussion has been closed.