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Roy Jenkins was President of the Commission. It's a role that predates our accession, as do the main political institutions like the ECJ. The EEC was nothing like EFTA, which is why it succeeded and EFTA didn't.HYUFD said:
It was a huge difference, it made the difference between a trading block and a Federal EU superstate with its own President, currency and armed forces.williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
EFTA is now closer to the old EEC than the EU is0 -
Yes. It was said a few days ago the assumption based on modelling was that the peak would occur in May-June. Hopefully that's based on something much more sophisticated than taking a few days' test results (many representing imported cases anyway, and therefore reflecting the situation in Italy and Iran, not the UK) and then extrapolating exponential growth from them.alex_ said:
Rate of spread will slow as more contacts are between people who have already had it.rottenborough said:By my back of envelope workings, 13 million Brits will have it by Easter, if really is 2x every 2 days and not six days.
But the values of the parameters in the models are very uncertain, and depend on how people's behaviour changes. If people become very frightened, no doubt they will behave differently, as has been seen in other countries.0 -
That Flybe couldn’t get near the place because it was so damn expensive, played a big part in their demise.SandyRentool said:
Were Flybe the buyer?CarlottaVance said:0 -
County Durham did not vote majority Tory, it voted in 3 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs and even 5 years ago the Tories got far more votes in Durham than the 11% who now back joining the EuroGallowgate said:
Yawn. Your absolutism is ridiculous.HYUFD said:
Joining the Common Market is a totally different kettle of fish to joining a Federal EU superstate. Had it stayed a Common Market we would never have voted to Leave.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
At most the UK will rejoin the single market, not the full EU and certainly England will never vote to join a Federal EU
Even 5 years ago people would have said that County Durham would never vote Tory again.0 -
There are very roughly two types of 2016 Trump voters.rottenborough said:
Unfortunately, there is a large mass of Republican voters who are now Trump worshippers, who seem to have been dazzled and captivated by his personality. The elite of GOP, who should know better, except Romney, have allowed this to continue without a peep of protest.OllyT said:
Sorry would not have bought that excuse for electing Trump four years ago and I certainly don't buy it now. Anyone who votes for Trump in November knows exactly the type of person they are giving power to.HYUFD said:
Jimmy Carter is probably the most recent human being to hold the office of President in the last 50 years and was also one of the worst presidents.OllyT said:
They say we get the politicians we deserve and Americans chose Trump.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I heard him say that. He disgusts meeristdoof said:Of all the appaling things I have heard come from Trump's mouth, this is one of the most disgraceful things I have ever heard from potitician in my lifetime.
“I like the numbers being where they are,” said Trump, who appeared to be explicitly acknowledging his political concerns about the outbreak: “I don’t need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn’t our fault.”
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/06/us-coronavirus-death-toll-washington-state
In other words he doesn't care if people on the ship get ill or die, he doesn't want them being counted as US statistics.
Likewise he disgusts me., it goes beyond the usual political divides. I'm no fan of Johnson but he is a far more decent human being than Trump will ever be.
Trump is a product of fears of globalisation and immigration as much as Brexit was, a symptom not a cause
America is in very dangerous waters, and I, for one, will be rooting for Biden and I don't care how old he is.
T: what you called Trump Worshippers and
R: Republican voters who think that any Republican would be better as president than any Democrat.
There are probably quite a lot in T that are also in R.
The T group will always vote Trump, even if he orders a drone attack on Paul McCartney, they will still vote for him. But this group is nowhere near big enough to win a Whitehouse election.
He also needs the "in R but not in T" group. It is the voters in this group which have to be persuaded not to support such a selfish, nasty and unchristian "person" and stay at home on polling day.1 -
So?HYUFD said:
County Durham did not vote majority Tory, it voted in 3 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs and even 5 years ago the Tories got far more votes in Durham than the 11% who now back joining the EuroGallowgate said:
Yawn. Your absolutism is ridiculous.HYUFD said:
Joining the Common Market is a totally different kettle of fish to joining a Federal EU superstate. Had it stayed a Common Market we would never have voted to Leave.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
At most the UK will rejoin the single market, not the full EU and certainly England will never vote to join a Federal EU
Even 5 years ago people would have said that County Durham would never vote Tory again.0 -
That would require that only a small percentage of the population got it, which isn't the assumption. And as I just pointed out, it's not clear that intensive care actually saves many lives in this case.HYUFD said:
The availability of intensive care beds could make a difference between an average death rate of 3% and a death rate of 10% or so though for those who do get coronavirusChris said:
The government seems to be acting on the assumption that sooner or later this will spread through a substantial percentage of the population, be it 80%, 50%, 30% or whatever. If that happens, realistically it will be self-medication for all but a very few. Whether the lack of intensive care beds will make that much difference I'm not sure. The numbers from China suggest that maybe 75% of those identified as critically ill did eventually succumb, and that number is still increasing. The numbers I've seen from Italy seem essentially similar.Chameleon said:
It could be that we're finding them that quickly, but they're growing a bit slower. If it was doubling every two days then we're a bit screwed.rottenborough said:Telegraph:
Prof Sheila Bird, formerly Programme Leader, MRC Biostatistics Unit, University of Cambridge, said:
“Since UK’s cumulative number of positive cases is currently doubling roughly every 2 days, it will be soon be highly informative to offer additional reporting - but a week in arrears - by sample-date and by the reason-for-testing.
So, we are doubling every 2 days - not the six days mentioned earlier and not the 7-10 the US are quoting at the moment.1 -
The Euro, free movement, a European army all developed well after we joined and it is only recently that the European elections have been linked to election of the EU Commission President.williamglenn said:
Roy Jenkins was President of the Commission. It's a role that predates our accession, as do the main political institutions like the ECJ. The EEC was nothing like EFTA, which is why it succeeded and EFTA didn't.HYUFD said:
It was a huge difference, it made the difference between a trading block and a Federal EU superstate with its own President, currency and armed forces.williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
EFTA is now closer to the old EEC than the EU is
EFTA is still going unlike the EEC which has been replaced by the EU.0 -
Duh, there was always far more support in County Durham for the Tories than there is in the UK for joining the single currency and a Federal EU SuperstateGallowgate said:
So?HYUFD said:
County Durham did not vote majority Tory, it voted in 3 Labour MPs and 3 Tory MPs and even 5 years ago the Tories got far more votes in Durham than the 11% who now back joining the EuroGallowgate said:
Yawn. Your absolutism is ridiculous.HYUFD said:
Joining the Common Market is a totally different kettle of fish to joining a Federal EU superstate. Had it stayed a Common Market we would never have voted to Leave.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
At most the UK will rejoin the single market, not the full EU and certainly England will never vote to join a Federal EU
Even 5 years ago people would have said that County Durham would never vote Tory again.0 -
No wonder Flybe went bust. The costs of slots in London (and the cost of any ground maintenance/refueling etc) increased the overheads on regional flights making them uneconomic. Building the new runway at Heathrow (and one at Gatwick as well, not instead of) is essential for regional connectivity and that idiotic court decision was a real blow to the Scottish economy.Sandpit said:
When a single daily landing slot is being sold on a secondary market for $27m, does that not give the slightest bit of a hint to those in charge that they should be expanding the number of slots available?CarlottaVance said:0 -
I'm not sure lecturing a Leaver about what motivates them is really going to be that successful...williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
If you understood it you wouldn't have lost.1 -
The headline death rate from coronavirus itself would still be the same even if everyone got it or only 10 people got it, however intensive care treatment could reduce the minority of cases who develop and die from secondary symptoms like pneumoniaChris said:
That would require that only a small percentage of the population got it, which isn't the assumption. And as I just pointed out, it's not clear that intensive care actually saves many lives in this case.HYUFD said:
The availability of intensive care beds could make a difference between an average death rate of 3% and a death rate of 10% or so though for those who do get coronavirusChris said:
The government seems to be acting on the assumption that sooner or later this will spread through a substantial percentage of the population, be it 80%, 50%, 30% or whatever. If that happens, realistically it will be self-medication for all but a very few. Whether the lack of intensive care beds will make that much difference I'm not sure. The numbers from China suggest that maybe 75% of those identified as critically ill did eventually succumb, and that number is still increasing. The numbers I've seen from Italy seem essentially similar.Chameleon said:
It could be that we're finding them that quickly, but they're growing a bit slower. If it was doubling every two days then we're a bit screwed.rottenborough said:Telegraph:
Prof Sheila Bird, formerly Programme Leader, MRC Biostatistics Unit, University of Cambridge, said:
“Since UK’s cumulative number of positive cases is currently doubling roughly every 2 days, it will be soon be highly informative to offer additional reporting - but a week in arrears - by sample-date and by the reason-for-testing.
So, we are doubling every 2 days - not the six days mentioned earlier and not the 7-10 the US are quoting at the moment.0 -
Free movement was in the Treaty of Rome, the first stages of European military cooperation predate even the Coal and Steel Community, and included the UK, and we had a permanent opt out from the Euro. You are trying to rewrite history.HYUFD said:
The Euro, free movement, a European army all developed well after we joined and it is only recently that the European elections have been linked to election of the EU Commission President.williamglenn said:
Roy Jenkins was President of the Commission. It's a role that predates our accession, as do the main political institutions like the ECJ. The EEC was nothing like EFTA, which is why it succeeded and EFTA didn't.HYUFD said:
It was a huge difference, it made the difference between a trading block and a Federal EU superstate with its own President, currency and armed forces.williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
EFTA is now closer to the old EEC than the EU is
EFTA is still going unlike the EEC which has been replaced by the EU.0 -
Covid-19 or not ,I always find it irritating the forced handshake before the game in football matches. It did not used to be the case until fairly recently . Especially as it morphed into a sort of grasp a couple of years ago. Handshakes are good manners but lose meaning if forced or prescribed.alex_ said:So the Premier League banned the pre-game 'fairplay' handshakes, only for... all the players to embrace and shake hands at the end of the match! What was the point of that? Or is the point that they don't want to 'enforce' handshakes on the players, but what the players choose to do voluntarily is up to them?
0 -
We all lost, and my side of the argument wasn't represented in the 2016 referendum.brokenwheel said:
I'm not sure lecturing a Leaver about what motivates them is really going to be that successful...williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
If you understood it you wouldn't have lost.0 -
Perhaps the Scottish government might like to subsidise FlyBe or whoever replaces them if having flights to Heathrow is so important to the Scottish economy.DavidL said:
No wonder Flybe went bust. The costs of slots in London (and the cost of any ground maintenance/refueling etc) increased the overheads on regional flights making them uneconomic. Building the new runway at Heathrow (and one at Gatwick as well, not instead of) is essential for regional connectivity and that idiotic court decision was a real blow to the Scottish economy.Sandpit said:
When a single daily landing slot is being sold on a secondary market for $27m, does that not give the slightest bit of a hint to those in charge that they should be expanding the number of slots available?CarlottaVance said:
Ditto the Northern Irish and Isle of Man governments.
And Exeter city council.0 -
Not free movement from the poorer Eastern European nations which is where the problems arose, there was no European army set up to compete with NATO at the time of the Treaty of Rome and to rejoin now we would likely have to join the Euro which is far less popular than even voting to Remain in 2016 was with the opt outwilliamglenn said:
Free movement was in the Treaty of Rome, the first stages of European military cooperation predate even the Coal and Steel Community, and included the UK, and we had a permanent opt out from the Euro. You are trying to rewrite history.HYUFD said:
The Euro, free movement, a European army all developed well after we joined and it is only recently that the European elections have been linked to election of the EU Commission President.williamglenn said:
Roy Jenkins was President of the Commission. It's a role that predates our accession, as do the main political institutions like the ECJ. The EEC was nothing like EFTA, which is why it succeeded and EFTA didn't.HYUFD said:
It was a huge difference, it made the difference between a trading block and a Federal EU superstate with its own President, currency and armed forces.williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
EFTA is now closer to the old EEC than the EU is
EFTA is still going unlike the EEC which has been replaced by the EU.0 -
We need to increase the supply of slots. Prices will then look after themselves. And many of these regional flights are already subsidised.another_richard said:
Perhaps the Scottish government might like to subsidise FlyBe or whoever replaces them if having flights to Heathrow is so important to the Scottish economy.DavidL said:
No wonder Flybe went bust. The costs of slots in London (and the cost of any ground maintenance/refueling etc) increased the overheads on regional flights making them uneconomic. Building the new runway at Heathrow (and one at Gatwick as well, not instead of) is essential for regional connectivity and that idiotic court decision was a real blow to the Scottish economy.Sandpit said:
When a single daily landing slot is being sold on a secondary market for $27m, does that not give the slightest bit of a hint to those in charge that they should be expanding the number of slots available?CarlottaVance said:
Ditto the Northern Irish and Isle of Man governments.
And Exeter city council.
I am aware that when planes were flying from Dundee to London City they carried enough fuel and food for the return journey. They were being charged by the hour for time on the tarmac in City and any delay in the flight wiped out any profit. City get away with that because there is massive unmet demand.0 -
I'm gutted.CarlottaVance said:
Air New Zealand business class from Los Angeles to London was a great offering, and terrific value too. And the Sky Coach for economy passengers was pretty good too.
0 -
So now you're supporting my point that enlargement was a more significant factor.HYUFD said:
Not free movement from the poorer Eastern European nations which is where the problems arose, there was no European army set up to compete with NATO at the time of the Treaty of Rome and to rejoin now we would likely have to join the Euro which is far less popular than even voting to Remain in 2016 was with the opt outwilliamglenn said:
Free movement was in the Treaty of Rome, the first stages of European military cooperation predate even the Coal and Steel Community, and included the UK, and we had a permanent opt out from the Euro. You are trying to rewrite history.HYUFD said:
The Euro, free movement, a European army all developed well after we joined and it is only recently that the European elections have been linked to election of the EU Commission President.williamglenn said:
Roy Jenkins was President of the Commission. It's a role that predates our accession, as do the main political institutions like the ECJ. The EEC was nothing like EFTA, which is why it succeeded and EFTA didn't.HYUFD said:
It was a huge difference, it made the difference between a trading block and a Federal EU superstate with its own President, currency and armed forces.williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
EFTA is now closer to the old EEC than the EU is
EFTA is still going unlike the EEC which has been replaced by the EU.1 -
It was one factor, exacerbated by Blair's failure to impose transition controls on free movement from the new accession countrieswilliamglenn said:
So now you're supporting my point that enlargement was a more significant factor.HYUFD said:
Not free movement from the poorer Eastern European nations which is where the problems arose, there was no European army set up to compete with NATO at the time of the Treaty of Rome and to rejoin now we would likely have to join the Euro which is far less popular than even voting to Remain in 2016 was with the opt outwilliamglenn said:
Free movement was in the Treaty of Rome, the first stages of European military cooperation predate even the Coal and Steel Community, and included the UK, and we had a permanent opt out from the Euro. You are trying to rewrite history.HYUFD said:
The Euro, free movement, a European army all developed well after we joined and it is only recently that the European elections have been linked to election of the EU Commission President.williamglenn said:
Roy Jenkins was President of the Commission. It's a role that predates our accession, as do the main political institutions like the ECJ. The EEC was nothing like EFTA, which is why it succeeded and EFTA didn't.HYUFD said:
It was a huge difference, it made the difference between a trading block and a Federal EU superstate with its own President, currency and armed forces.williamglenn said:
It's not anything like as big a difference as Eurosceptics like to pretend. The expansion of the union was far more significant than its deepening in changing attitudes to it.brokenwheel said:
No it didn't as the EU didn't exist, it was more pro-EEC. Big difference.williamglenn said:
England used to be more pro-EU than the rest of the UK. There's no reason why it couldn't be again.HYUFD said:
We will never rejoin the EU with the Euro and certainly not as England alone given it is more pro Leave and pro Brexit than the UK as a wholewilliamglenn said:
We don't rejoin as the UK.RobD said:
Not sure I follow the logic? If we re-join the EU, Northern Ireland leaves?williamglenn said:
"We spend £350m a week on Northern Ireland. Let's give it to Brussels instead."RobD said:
"We're spending an extra £350mn/week on the NHS, let's send it to Brussels instead".MarqueeMark said:
"Which hospitals are you going to close to pay for the annual fees, Sir Keith?"HYUFD said:
Compared to a few years of likely WTO terms by the time of the general election, the question will be if the cost is greater sticking to hard Brexit with Boris or shifting to a softer Brexit and rejoining the EEA and EFTA with StarmerMarqueeMark said:
And I'm sure he'll get the EU to confirm the cost and the precise terms that will require of us before promoting such a policy....HYUFD said:
It shows they should scrap rejoin the EU and stick to rejoin the single market once the transition period ends, as Starmer will likely do anywayCasino_Royale said:
That's terrible for rejoin.HYUFD said:
No? You surprise me......
That is going to play well after Covid-19....
EFTA is now closer to the old EEC than the EU is
EFTA is still going unlike the EEC which has been replaced by the EU.0 -
Brilliant , I am Scottish and Europeanalgarkirk said:
What is it like to be one of the 11% of 'British adults' who aren't British?BigRich said:
Be interesting, to know how this has changed from before the referendum, and a year ago.CarlottaVance said:
You plank that does not mean they would all say they are BritishHYUFD said:
Hardly given 55% voted to stay in the UKmalcolmg said:
Most of Scotland in that 9%CarlottaVance said:0 -
What kind of morons are roaming the streetsCarlottaVance said:0 -
The ultra unionists on here are not bright enough to realise that.Alistair said:
You don't need to join the Euro to be part of the EU.rottenborough said:
The rules are different for membership of each.0 -
David the real blow to the Scottish economy is unlike every other normal country , we have to fly to London to get anywhere. The arseholes in Westminster make sure we are kept in our place by not having direct routes. Stick Heathrow up their arses and everybody should go via Schipol.DavidL said:
No wonder Flybe went bust. The costs of slots in London (and the cost of any ground maintenance/refueling etc) increased the overheads on regional flights making them uneconomic. Building the new runway at Heathrow (and one at Gatwick as well, not instead of) is essential for regional connectivity and that idiotic court decision was a real blow to the Scottish economy.Sandpit said:
When a single daily landing slot is being sold on a secondary market for $27m, does that not give the slightest bit of a hint to those in charge that they should be expanding the number of slots available?CarlottaVance said:0 -
You halfwitted cretin, how can they subsidise airlines when they only get pocket money from Westminster, who's only aim is to make sure Scotland is kept in its place by having to go via that shithole in the first place.another_richard said:
Perhaps the Scottish government might like to subsidise FlyBe or whoever replaces them if having flights to Heathrow is so important to the Scottish economy.DavidL said:
No wonder Flybe went bust. The costs of slots in London (and the cost of any ground maintenance/refueling etc) increased the overheads on regional flights making them uneconomic. Building the new runway at Heathrow (and one at Gatwick as well, not instead of) is essential for regional connectivity and that idiotic court decision was a real blow to the Scottish economy.Sandpit said:
When a single daily landing slot is being sold on a secondary market for $27m, does that not give the slightest bit of a hint to those in charge that they should be expanding the number of slots available?CarlottaVance said:
Ditto the Northern Irish and Isle of Man governments.
And Exeter city council.0 -
It seems you're not willing to pay more taxes.malcolmg said:
You halfwitted cretin, how can they subsidise airlines when they only get pocket money from Westminster, who's only aim is to make sure Scotland is kept in its place by having to go via that shithole in the first place.another_richard said:
Perhaps the Scottish government might like to subsidise FlyBe or whoever replaces them if having flights to Heathrow is so important to the Scottish economy.DavidL said:
No wonder Flybe went bust. The costs of slots in London (and the cost of any ground maintenance/refueling etc) increased the overheads on regional flights making them uneconomic. Building the new runway at Heathrow (and one at Gatwick as well, not instead of) is essential for regional connectivity and that idiotic court decision was a real blow to the Scottish economy.Sandpit said:
When a single daily landing slot is being sold on a secondary market for $27m, does that not give the slightest bit of a hint to those in charge that they should be expanding the number of slots available?CarlottaVance said:
Ditto the Northern Irish and Isle of Man governments.
And Exeter city council.0 -
How much of that demand is from the people of Dundee rather than the people of London ?DavidL said:
We need to increase the supply of slots. Prices will then look after themselves. And many of these regional flights are already subsidised.another_richard said:
Perhaps the Scottish government might like to subsidise FlyBe or whoever replaces them if having flights to Heathrow is so important to the Scottish economy.DavidL said:
No wonder Flybe went bust. The costs of slots in London (and the cost of any ground maintenance/refueling etc) increased the overheads on regional flights making them uneconomic. Building the new runway at Heathrow (and one at Gatwick as well, not instead of) is essential for regional connectivity and that idiotic court decision was a real blow to the Scottish economy.Sandpit said:
When a single daily landing slot is being sold on a secondary market for $27m, does that not give the slightest bit of a hint to those in charge that they should be expanding the number of slots available?CarlottaVance said:
Ditto the Northern Irish and Isle of Man governments.
And Exeter city council.
I am aware that when planes were flying from Dundee to London City they carried enough fuel and food for the return journey. They were being charged by the hour for time on the tarmac in City and any delay in the flight wiped out any profit. City get away with that because there is massive unmet demand.0
This discussion has been closed.