People are generally canceling foreign holidays not because they are afraid of catching and dying of Covid -19 but the fear of not being able to get back or being quarantined abroad . This is utterly a ridiculous situation where people are fearing government decisions more than the actual illness. it shows governments are over reacting and there definitely is a bad case of Groupthink infecting the world if not a plague.
That's not at all a ridiculous situation. Currently you have not many people infected, but a lot of potential growth. Any single infected person can easily create a chain of 2->4->8->... resulting in a large number of infections, some of them of vulnerable people. In that situation you currently shouldn't be very scared of catching it, but the government should be trying very hard to prevent even a very small probability of you spreading it.
Those who know enough about maths to be able to read a log graph are definitely worried: particularly if, like me, they are older men with underlying health conditions. A bit of panic now that slows this down is far preferable to letting rip though the population. Oh, and for those who say it’s just a worse form of flu: I’ve had flu twice in my life and don’t remember much about those two weeks as I was mostly delirious. The death rate is not the only problem, it’s the number of people who will need medical treatment at the same time.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
People are not being denied tests in France and Germany. Those countries’ leaders are bot claiming everything is OK. Italy does seem to have had a lot of comment and coverage, though.
Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).
We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.
The bare facts are fairly clear:
The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.
Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.
So you are doing exactly what you accuse others of - ignoring facts that don't fit your story.
Italy mortality rate 4.2% so why don't you mention Germany mortality rate 0% from almost 700 confirmed cases.. Or the S Korea figures.
Obviously this is worse than normal flu, but I guess the 1.4% estimate from Hong Kong scientists is the best estimate so far.
We know that a lot of people in Italy and in Wuhan got infected in hospital, especially amongst people who died. Death rates are a lot higher for people already sick enough to be in hospitals for other reasons.
People are generally canceling foreign holidays not because they are afraid of catching and dying of Covid -19 but the fear of not being able to get back or being quarantined abroad . This is utterly a ridiculous situation where people are fearing government decisions more than the actual illness. it shows governments are over reacting and there definitely is a bad case of Groupthink infecting the world if not a plague.
That's not at all a ridiculous situation. Currently you have not many people infected, but a lot of potential growth. Any single infected person can easily create a chain of 2->4->8->... resulting in a large number of infections, some of them of vulnerable people. In that situation you currently shouldn't be very scared of catching it, but the government should be trying very hard to prevent even a very small probability of you spreading it.
His argument is exactly like this: You know those low bridges where they put a sacrificial bar the same height as the bridge a mile before you get to it so if you are overheight you break the bar and do a bit, but only a bit, of damage instead of a lot? That is lunacy! Lorry drivers are being turned back not by the bridge itself, but by the government overreacting to the bridge by putting the bar up.
Given how much US pop culture media tends to shit on the role of VP as a non job where they don't even usually work closely with the president I'm not sure why people would want it unless they are a has been, but given the age of the candidates its wieth it and it can still be a stepping stone I guess.
People are generally canceling foreign holidays not because they are afraid of catching and dying of Covid -19 but the fear of not being able to get back or being quarantined abroad . This is utterly a ridiculous situation where people are fearing government decisions more than the actual illness. it shows governments are over reacting and there definitely is a bad case of Groupthink infecting the world if not a plague.
That's not at all a ridiculous situation. Currently you have not many people infected, but a lot of potential growth. Any single infected person can easily create a chain of 2->4->8->... resulting in a large number of infections, some of them of vulnerable people. In that situation you currently shouldn't be very scared of catching it, but the government should be trying very hard to prevent even a very small probability of you spreading it.
My recommendation would be that all aircrew be tested, right away
And all baggage handlers, especially at arrivals. And they should all wear gloves.
When you think Heathrow employs 76,000 within the airport boundary, that is one place I would certainly be focussing attention to prevent a virus hub.
I remain of the view that the main impact of the virus is going to be economic rather than medical but that is for the reasons @Foxy points out. Fewer people will die because appropriate action is taken. Those appropriate actions have serious economic consequences. They really should be the focus of the budget this week.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).
We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.
The bare facts are fairly clear:
The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.
Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.
So you are doing exactly what you accuse others of - ignoring facts that don't fit your story.
Italy mortality rate 4.2% so why don't you mention Germany mortality rate 0% from almost 700 confirmed cases.. Or the S Korea figures.
Obviously this is worse than normal flu, but I guess the 1.4% estimate from Hong Kong scientists is the best estimate so far.
We know that a lot of people in Italy and in Wuhan got infected in hospital, especially amongst people who died. Death rates are a lot higher for people already sick enough to be in hospitals for other reasons.
Interesting. Italy's mortality rate during the Black Death was very high as well.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
Massive bridging relief needs to be announced on Wednesday. Whatever it takes to keep small businesses from going under should be the message. Otherwise we come out of this in six months time and find every local pub and restaurant has gone under.
I remain of the view that the main impact of the virus is going to be economic rather than medical but that is for the reasons @Foxy points out. Fewer people will die because appropriate action is taken. Those appropriate actions have serious economic consequences. They really should be the focus of the budget this week.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
I am increasingly convinced that this is a problem roughly comparable in difficulty and impact to a world war. Forget these tiny steps. I want to see People’s QE with the proceeds used to finance a 3 month universal rent and mortgage holiday, with similar special cashflow provisions for businesses.
Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).
We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.
The bare facts are fairly clear:
The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.
Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.
So you are doing exactly what you accuse others of - ignoring facts that don't fit your story.
Italy mortality rate 4.2% so why don't you mention Germany mortality rate 0% from almost 700 confirmed cases.. Or the S Korea figures.
Obviously this is worse than normal flu, but I guess the 1.4% estimate from Hong Kong scientists is the best estimate so far.
We know that a lot of people in Italy and in Wuhan got infected in hospital, especially amongst people who died. Death rates are a lot higher for people already sick enough to be in hospitals for other reasons.
Interesting. Italy's mortality rate during the Black Death was very high as well.
Italy has already asked for suspension of the EZ budgetary rules. There is resistance. I think that there is a real chance that this will end with them outside the Euro. Certainly the biggest risk since Greece.
I remain of the view that the main impact of the virus is going to be economic rather than medical but that is for the reasons @Foxy points out. Fewer people will die because appropriate action is taken. Those appropriate actions have serious economic consequences. They really should be the focus of the budget this week.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
I am increasingly convinced that this is a problem roughly comparable in difficulty and impact to a world war. Forget these tiny steps. I want to see People’s QE with the proceeds used to finance a 3 month universal rent and mortgage holiday, with similar special cashflow provisions for businesses.
QE is definitely a possibility. We have never really got rid of the deflationary pressures created by the GFC. The deflationary consequences of the collapse of demand from the virus are a risk that needs to be addressed.
Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).
We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.
The bare facts are fairly clear:
The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.
Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.
So you are doing exactly what you accuse others of - ignoring facts that don't fit your story.
Italy mortality rate 4.2% so why don't you mention Germany mortality rate 0% from almost 700 confirmed cases.. Or the S Korea figures.
Obviously this is worse than normal flu, but I guess the 1.4% estimate from Hong Kong scientists is the best estimate so far.
We know that a lot of people in Italy and in Wuhan got infected in hospital, especially amongst people who died. Death rates are a lot higher for people already sick enough to be in hospitals for other reasons.
Interesting. Italy's mortality rate during the Black Death was very high as well.
The closest big European country to Asia, where both Black Death and Coronavirus started, being an island in northern Europe helps us a bit
I remain of the view that the main impact of the virus is going to be economic rather than medical but that is for the reasons @Foxy points out. Fewer people will die because appropriate action is taken. Those appropriate actions have serious economic consequences. They really should be the focus of the budget this week.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
I think we are about 2 months off the UK peak, though we don't know how high that will be. My guess is only a guess, but I expect cases in six figures. After that a gradual decline over the summer, with perhaps a further bumb up at the end of the year.
This will be an enormous strain on the NHS, and also for many individuals, both in physical terms, and on mental health from anxiety and self isolation.
It will wreck the holiday, travel, and events programme for the year, but demand will bounce back quickly, like it did after Spanish Flu. There needs to be bridging support for these businesses to keep them viable, though the weakest will probably go the way of Flybe.
As someone in the events business could @SouthamObserver comment on what reliefs would help tide them over.
Leave won the referendum, then two GEs on the matter, but we really needed an opinion poll to seal it
You jest, but kind of. Its notable that polls have had support for remain consistently in front for so long. As you point out that has not been reflected in the public voting in such a way as to secure that outcome, but the answer to the question is still interesting to see, in loose fashion, how many are reconciled to what has now happened. How people feel on that question will affect political strategy moving forward
People are generally canceling foreign holidays not because they are afraid of catching and dying of Covid -19 but the fear of not being able to get back or being quarantined abroad . This is utterly a ridiculous situation where people are fearing government decisions more than the actual illness. it shows governments are over reacting and there definitely is a bad case of Groupthink infecting the world if not a plague.
That's not at all a ridiculous situation. Currently you have not many people infected, but a lot of potential growth. Any single infected person can easily create a chain of 2->4->8->... resulting in a large number of infections, some of them of vulnerable people. In that situation you currently shouldn't be very scared of catching it, but the government should be trying very hard to prevent even a very small probability of you spreading it.
His argument is exactly like this: You know those low bridges where they put a sacrificial bar the same height as the bridge a mile before you get to it so if you are overheight you break the bar and do a bit, but only a bit, of damage instead of a lot? That is lunacy! Lorry drivers are being turned back not by the bridge itself, but by the government overreacting to the bridge by putting the bar up.
Yes or the idea that if 99% of people are vaccinated against a disease, so nobody gets it, parents might be more worried about the effects of the vaccine than their child getting the disease, then the advice to vaccinate your child is "ridiculous" .
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
I remain of the view that the main impact of the virus is going to be economic rather than medical but that is for the reasons @Foxy points out. Fewer people will die because appropriate action is taken. Those appropriate actions have serious economic consequences. They really should be the focus of the budget this week.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
I think we are about 2 months off the UK peak, though we don't know how high that will be. My guess is only a guess, but I expect cases in six figures. After that a gradual decline over the summer, with perhaps a further bumb up at the end of the year.
This will be an enormous strain on the NHS, and also for many individuals, both in physical terms, and on mental health from anxiety and self isolation.
It will wreck the holiday, travel, and events programme for the year, but demand will bounce back quickly, like it did after Spanish Flu. There needs to be bridging support for these businesses to keep them viable, though the weakest will probably go the way of Flybe.
As someone in the events business could @SouthamObserver comment on what reliefs would help tide them over.
I will be pleased if it is 6 figures rather than 7. The government indicated that at peak 20% of the workforce would be off work. That’s 6m people of working age. Hopefully largely precautionary.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Castro looks like a good VP pick on most grounds, only problem might be his surname for low information voters
I dont recall seeing this phrase 'low information voters' until recently but now its everywhere. Is it some new psephological euphemism that has caught on regarding people who dont pay much attention?
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
I think Johnson is also pretty lazy. He likes being PM, but doesn't really want to do a lot of work.
I remain of the view that the main impact of the virus is going to be economic rather than medical but that is for the reasons @Foxy points out. Fewer people will die because appropriate action is taken. Those appropriate actions have serious economic consequences. They really should be the focus of the budget this week.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
I think we are about 2 months off the UK peak, though we don't know how high that will be. My guess is only a guess, but I expect cases in six figures. After that a gradual decline over the summer, with perhaps a further bumb up at the end of the year.
This will be an enormous strain on the NHS, and also for many individuals, both in physical terms, and on mental health from anxiety and self isolation.
It will wreck the holiday, travel, and events programme for the year, but demand will bounce back quickly, like it did after Spanish Flu. There needs to be bridging support for these businesses to keep them viable, though the weakest will probably go the way of Flybe.
As someone in the events business could @SouthamObserver comment on what reliefs would help tide them over.
I’m assuming you mean “number of new cases” (per day or per week)? Or perhaps “active” cases.
Our daughter in law and her mother (from Vancouver) yesterday cancelled their land trip to Australia and later cruise to New Zealand departing on monday.
We have decided to cancel our trip to Vancouver in May as we are both high risk and when I cancelled air porter at Heathrow said they were receiving lots of cancellation.
Next week HMG looks as if it is going to issue travel advice to the high risk category, (like both of us) to avoid public transport
On that advice I will seek refund of my BA tickets under cancellation clause, as I have already cancelled the hotel free of charge and have had the rail fares refunded
IMHO the economic dislocation is going to be far worse than the virus
I remain of the view that the main impact of the virus is going to be economic rather than medical but that is for the reasons @Foxy points out. Fewer people will die because appropriate action is taken. Those appropriate actions have serious economic consequences. They really should be the focus of the budget this week.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
I think we are about 2 months off the UK peak, though we don't know how high that will be. My guess is only a guess, but I expect cases in six figures. After that a gradual decline over the summer, with perhaps a further bumb up at the end of the year.
This will be an enormous strain on the NHS, and also for many individuals, both in physical terms, and on mental health from anxiety and self isolation.
It will wreck the holiday, travel, and events programme for the year, but demand will bounce back quickly, like it did after Spanish Flu. There needs to be bridging support for these businesses to keep them viable, though the weakest will probably go the way of Flybe.
As someone in the events business could @SouthamObserver comment on what reliefs would help tide them over.
The big upfront costs in events are room hire and catering, and for events longer than a day you may also have hotel blocks, too. Unless you have very good insurance, you lose that money if an event goes south because you usually pay these months in advance. Thus, if you don’t get the delegate fees and sponsorships, you’re buggered. For us, events is 20% of the business, so we can cover the losses. For events companies, the loss of cash flow will be existential. At a minimum, there will be the danger of lay-offs, but I'd expect a lot of smaller operations to go out of business.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
I agree - there has been zero criticism of France/Italy or the ?role? of the EU [ not quite sure what if anything the EU has done so far].. Now in all probability there is a limit to what any democracy can do in terms of Draconian action but it's clear that some are itching to weaponise the Coronavirus in a variety of ways. Last week it was to suspend Brexit - this week we're told the NHS will never cope because of Tory cuts. This morning it is the potential a big outbreak has for toppling Trump. Meanwhile those of us near or in the danger zone look only for sensible measures and nations to work together.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
I think Johnson is also pretty lazy. He likes being PM, but doesn't really want to do a lot of work.
Sure, but plenty don't want to do the work but still insert themselves as the centre of attention for ego reasons.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
I think Johnson is also pretty lazy. He likes being PM, but doesn't really want to do a lot of work.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
this week we're told the NHS will never cope because of Tory cuts.
We're told that every day of every week of every month of every year regardless. It's really undermined the impact of when it truly happens.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
I agree - there has been zero criticism of France/Italy or the ?role? of the EU [ not quite sure what if anything the EU has done so far].. Now in all probability there is a limit to what any democracy can do in terms of Draconian action but it's clear that some are itching to weaponise the Coronavirus in a variety of ways. Last week it was to suspend Brexit - this week we're told the NHS will never cope because of Tory cuts. This morning it is the potential a big outbreak has for toppling Trump. Meanwhile those of us near or in the danger zone look only for sensible measures and nations to work together.
Loving your non-weaponisation of the coronavirus, there!
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
I think Johnson is also pretty lazy. He likes being PM, but doesn't really want to do a lot of work.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
I agree - there has been zero criticism of France/Italy or the ?role? of the EU [ not quite sure what if anything the EU has done so far].. Now in all probability there is a limit to what any democracy can do in terms of Draconian action but it's clear that some are itching to weaponise the Coronavirus in a variety of ways. Last week it was to suspend Brexit - this week we're told the NHS will never cope because of Tory cuts. This morning it is the potential a big outbreak has for toppling Trump. Meanwhile those of us near or in the danger zone look only for sensible measures and nations to work together.
Loving your non-weaponisation of the coronavirus, there!
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
I agree - there has been zero criticism of France/Italy or the ?role? of the EU [ not quite sure what if anything the EU has done so far].. Now in all probability there is a limit to what any democracy can do in terms of Draconian action but it's clear that some are itching to weaponise the Coronavirus in a variety of ways. Last week it was to suspend Brexit - this week we're told the NHS will never cope because of Tory cuts. This morning it is the potential a big outbreak has for toppling Trump. Meanwhile those of us near or in the danger zone look only for sensible measures and nations to work together.
Loving your non-weaponisation of the coronavirus, there!
We feel your frustration. #lazyBoris.
What frustration? The idea that I would want tens of thousands to die so that Johnson might lose power is pretty bizarre. But if you want to believe that, so be it.
Beto Texas Bigly is more likely imo: was the Biden/Beto burger stunt last week flying a kite for VP nomination? Tbh I'd be surprised but he looks to me the most plausible of the former candidates.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
I think Johnson is also pretty lazy. He likes being PM, but doesn't really want to do a lot of work.
Sure, but plenty don't want to do the work but still insert themselves as the centre of attention for ego reasons.
Oh sure, but I think he's more interested in strutting around the world stage and appearing at a lab wearing a lab coat than getting involved in the minutiae of responding to the coronavirus.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
I agree - there has been zero criticism of France/Italy or the ?role? of the EU [ not quite sure what if anything the EU has done so far].. Now in all probability there is a limit to what any democracy can do in terms of Draconian action but it's clear that some are itching to weaponise the Coronavirus in a variety of ways. Last week it was to suspend Brexit - this week we're told the NHS will never cope because of Tory cuts. This morning it is the potential a big outbreak has for toppling Trump. Meanwhile those of us near or in the danger zone look only for sensible measures and nations to work together.
There's just way more attention paid to American politics full stop.
Everyone on here can name and often have opinions about several local government US politicians who aren't even running to take part in an election that's not for 8 months. How many could even name more than 1 or 2 (if that) current German politicians apart from Merkel?
Don’t know about America but I haven’t seen any left/right split between those criticising Trump on here. Nor between those attracted to the worst case vs best case U.K. scenarios.
And on the latter bear in mind the political risks swing both ways - responding badly so that hundreds of thousands die, or the risk ultimately appearing to be overplayed combined with severe economic consequences and a public perception of “overreaction”.
Oh sure, but I think he's more interested in strutting around the world stage and appearing at a lab wearing a lab coat than getting involved in the minutiae of responding to the coronavirus.
As you are so obviously in the COBRA loop, share with us what level of briefings the PM has been receiving in recent weeks.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
People are not being denied tests in France and Germany. Those countries’ leaders are bot claiming everything is OK. Italy does seem to have had a lot of comment and coverage, though.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.
The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?
Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.
It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.
Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.
Not many (zero) on France or Germany.
It’s very transparent.
People are not being denied tests in France and Germany. Those countries’ leaders are bot claiming everything is OK. Italy does seem to have had a lot of comment and coverage, though.
What about Russia, South Africa and Brazil ?
Who knows? The US is the world's most powerful country. It will always get huge amounts of coverage.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
What odds can you get on Pence not being Trump’s running mate in November? Must be a high chance at some point that Trump doesn’t like how Pence is handling things - if he starts authorising economically disruptive actions and the “numbers” start going a way Trump doesn’t like. And there isn’t anyone that Trump EE’s as indispensable other than himself.
Don’t know about America but I haven’t seen any left/right split between those criticising Trump on here. Nor between those attracted to the worst case vs best case U.K. scenarios.
And on the latter bear in mind the political risks swing both ways - responding badly so that hundreds of thousands die, or the risk ultimately appearing to be overplayed combined with severe economic consequences and a public perception of “overreaction”.
It is something of a relief that one of the more ostensibly competent figures has ended up as Secretary of State for Health. Imagine who it could have been: Shapps, Truss, Patel, Williamson?
Oh sure, but I think he's more interested in strutting around the world stage and appearing at a lab wearing a lab coat than getting involved in the minutiae of responding to the coronavirus.
As you are so obviously in the COBRA loop, share with us what level of briefings the PM has been receiving in recent weeks.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Sums it up pretty well. In the UK, the experts are not having to second guess politicians. That is a good thing. In the US, they are. That is bad.
One possibly interesting development in this crisis will be when the focus of the statistics is more related to number of deaths rather than number of cases. Everything at the moment seems mainly focussed on the latter rather than the former, with deaths an addendum to estimate mortality rates. This is most apparent in the US where a Trump is wandering about lauding his response because of the low number of confirmed cases, when anyone with half a brain can see that the low numbers are nonsense ... or the virus is one of the most dangerous in human history.
Oh sure, but I think he's more interested in strutting around the world stage and appearing at a lab wearing a lab coat than getting involved in the minutiae of responding to the coronavirus.
As you are so obviously in the COBRA loop, share with us what level of briefings the PM has been receiving in recent weeks.
It’s the “if The Guardian hasn’t reported something then it can’t be happening” school of thinking.
Oh sure, but I think he's more interested in strutting around the world stage and appearing at a lab wearing a lab coat than getting involved in the minutiae of responding to the coronavirus.
As you are so obviously in the COBRA loop, share with us what level of briefings the PM has been receiving in recent weeks.
OT the Trump response to covid19 is amazing. So much scope for stoking up the fear and division that got him elected, yet he decided to play this one with sunny American optimism...
On a different note, with COVID drowning out everything else, has anyone yet done one of those “here’s what you’ve missed” lists for the last few weeks? You know the sort of thing - Govt u-turn announcements, bad news stories etc etc?
On a different note, with COVID drowning out everything else, has anyone yet done one of those “here’s what you’ve missed” lists for the last few weeks? You know the sort of thing - Govt u-turn announcements, bad news stories etc etc?
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Not exactly consistent with the precautionary primciple?
Sure, there've been worries about other deseases which didn't go on to be realised. But as the medical experts note, this one does have more potential than most to become a pandemic because: - low but not trivial death-rate, meaning it doesn't kill itself off by denying itself hosts; - moderate transmission capacity, seemingly - infectious before obvious symptoms occur, making it very hard to contain.
Sure, it could be worse. It's not a new bubonic plague. All the same, we can't just wish it away because the last one wasn't so bad. It's not the last one and needs to be addressed on its own merits.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
What odds can you get on Pence not being Trump’s running mate in November? Must be a high chance at some point that Trump doesn’t like how Pence is handling things - if he starts authorising economically disruptive actions and the “numbers” start going a way Trump doesn’t like. And there isn’t anyone that Trump EE’s as indispensable other than himself.
Yes, I think that's quite possible. Indeed, I think that's one reason Trump threw him a hospital pass after giving him nothing to do for three years.
Oh sure, but I think he's more interested in strutting around the world stage and appearing at a lab wearing a lab coat than getting involved in the minutiae of responding to the coronavirus.
As you are so obviously in the COBRA loop, share with us what level of briefings the PM has been receiving in recent weeks.
Well for a start it's actually called "COBR"
COBR is just the meeting rooms.
You think a meeting room is going to get us through Covid-19? Because it does more than Boris Johnson?
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
I think Johnson is also pretty lazy. He likes being PM, but doesn't really want to do a lot of work.
Your analysis is lazier than Boris....
Nah, there's loads of evidence that Boris is lazy. However, as a PM, he delegates well (he did as mayor too), which is an advantage in a situation like this. It also means that (unlike May) he can concentrate on the crisis in hand and not let the rest of government freeze up because of control-freak tendencies demanding everything need the sign-off from No 10.
Whether that is consistent with Cummings being in No 10 is still an open question. We'll see. But Boris has little loyalty and Cummings has few friends.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,
Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.
These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.
There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?
Or Egypt has no clue and is not testing or reporting it so that their tourist industry survives a bit longer.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
Even when there is irrefutable evidence and world leading experts including the head of the WHO warning of an extreme threat, very stupid people opine that they know better.
It's probably a form of mental illness, extreme arrogance or something else perhaps more malevolent.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
If we were in an election year it may be different, but Johnson is very happy just to be PM. He has no inferiority complex. Quite the opposite. Trump clearly has very deep-seated, self-esteem issues. I seriously doubt whether he has ever known unconditional love. That must take a toll.
Well I certainly agree that we should not be a party of the centre. That's the LibDems. We are a Democratic Socialist party, but that doesn't mean we need to portray ourselves as a bunch of loons fixated on issues that mean nothing to the vast majority of voters.
The natural centre of gravity of the Labour Party is soft left. We have oscillated about this point, but I think after this leadership election the seesaw will be back in balance.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
Nah, there's loads of evidence that Boris is lazy. However, as a PM, he delegates well (he did as mayor too), which is an advantage in a situation like this. It also means that (unlike May) he can concentrate on the crisis in hand and not let the rest of government freeze up because of control-freak tendencies demanding everything need the sign-off from No 10.
Whether that is consistent with Cummings being in No 10 is still an open question. We'll see. But Boris has little loyalty and Cummings has few friends.
Surely that's a key advantage at all times for a PM but especially at times like this.
Either being unable to delegate, or delegating badly, is a recipe for disaster. There will always be many plates to spin and a PM who knows well whom to trust to keep certain ones spinning can look after the big picture.
Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).
We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.
The bare facts are fairly clear:
The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.
Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.
Doom Merchant KLAXON, have you nothing more to do than whine on here about people dying , what an obnoxious ghoul. Go back to pretending you are a bestselling author or just use one your previous monikers.
It's always a pleasure to read David's lucid articles. I agree Castro looks value, though there are so many possible runners that it's like picking a Grand National winner - you'll probably miss. Beto seems a fair possibility too - an asset in Texas, and helped Biden at a critical moment (gratitude does play a role in politics).
Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).
We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.
The bare facts are fairly clear:
The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.
Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.
Doom Merchant KLAXON, have you nothing more to do than whine on here about people dying , what an obnoxious ghoul. Go back to pretending you are a bestselling author or just use one your previous monikers.
Well said. This is a bad disease and it will be worse because of the inaction of many governments but its far from the end of the world and worth bearing in mind that 17,000 Italians die from the flu annually. Keeping perspective is important.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
You mean he is f***ing useless and hides. At least Trump tries to do something even if it is the wrong thing. Trump is head and shoulders above cowardly Boris.
Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).
We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.
The bare facts are fairly clear:
The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.
Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.
Doom Merchant KLAXON, have you nothing more to do than whine on here about people dying , what an obnoxious ghoul. Go back to pretending you are a bestselling author or just use one your previous monikers.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
Boris cares about Boris. Sometimes your interests may temporarily align with his. But not someone to rely on. If you’re in his way carnage. I cite the career of Theresa May.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
G, I am afraid if you believe that you are easily fooled, the buffoon is well out of his depth and prefers hiding to action, apart from appearing dressed up as a clown once in a blue moon.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
G, I am afraid if you believe that you are easily fooled, the buffoon is well out of his depth and prefers hiding to action, apart from appearing dressed up as a clown once in a blue moon.
Malc. Your response is predictable but I am content as is a majority that the government is dealing with covid 19 well
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
Boris cares about Boris. Sometimes your interests may temporarily align with his. But not someone to rely on. If you’re in his way carnage. I cite the career of Theresa May.
Boris did the country an enormous service by removing Mrs May - have you said thank you ?
Nah, there's loads of evidence that Boris is lazy. However, as a PM, he delegates well (he did as mayor too), which is an advantage in a situation like this. It also means that (unlike May) he can concentrate on the crisis in hand and not let the rest of government freeze up because of control-freak tendencies demanding everything need the sign-off from No 10.
Whether that is consistent with Cummings being in No 10 is still an open question. We'll see. But Boris has little loyalty and Cummings has few friends.
Boris's role in the Covid-19 outbreak is
1. To have the right people in the right jobs. I believe we can have considerabe confidence in those he has in post - we aren't going to be yearning for the transfer window to buy Mike Pence.
2. Listen to experts. Stand by them in press conferences, where you are open to questions. Otherwise, let those people get on with their jobs in tandem with Ministers.
3. Act as the calm, rational, sensibly upbeat "we can beat this thing, people, if we all take sensible measures and wash our hands for twenty seconds" face of the Government.
4. Go out in a lab coat and meet those who are on the front line, giving them confidence that Government respects the job they are doing - and listening to whetever else they need from Government.
5. Chair the COBRA meeting that draws all these strands together. And if the messages coming back to that COBRA meeting require very difficult decisions to be taken - decisions that at the time may well be politically unpopular - then the job requires he must take them, decisively and without dither.
6. He must act as the nation's lucky rabbit's foot - and get us through this with the least impact on our way of life consistent with curtailing the virus.
Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?
Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.
They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!
Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
Johnson being bone idle and totally uninterested in details is currently a huge advantage. It means the experts can get on with things without having to second guess the potential for political interference.
While there will be political decisions still to take, I guess we are learning a key difference between Boris and Trump (there were already plenty in fairness) is that while both love attention, Boris has repeatedly shown he can keep his head down when he wants to, and his ego does not require him to dominate a situation like this which others are better suited for.
You mean he is f***ing useless and hides. At least Trump tries to do something even if it is the wrong thing. Trump is head and shoulders above cowardly Boris.
Our daughter in law and her mother (from Vancouver) yesterday cancelled their land trip to Australia and later cruise to New Zealand departing on monday.
We have decided to cancel our trip to Vancouver in May as we are both high risk and when I cancelled air porter at Heathrow said they were receiving lots of cancellation.
Next week HMG looks as if it is going to issue travel advice to the high risk category, (like both of us) to avoid public transport
On that advice I will seek refund of my BA tickets under cancellation clause, as I have already cancelled the hotel free of charge and have had the rail fares refunded
IMHO the economic dislocation is going to be far worse than the virus
As someone else said elsewhere on thread, the government measures in budget will be about bridging, bridging between when demand bounces back whilst so much of service industry, from hotels and hospitality to hairdressers and Greggs get zero customers. I would be flabbergasted if government doesn’t dramatically lift unemployment benefits and provide other help for those living on the breadline. And later in year when we are in recession, country’s round the world will be spending money. 53 new aircraft and 49 new destroyers etc. 🙂
But what about you, what does isolation really mean? Telegraph says hug good bye to your relatives for a while as you keep social distance. What about visit to hairdressers, supermarket, saying hi to your neighbours just back from Tenerife?
It’s easy to say “you oldies keep your social distance”. And it makes sense. But just how practical or even doable is it?
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
Boris cares about Boris. Sometimes your interests may temporarily align with his. But not someone to rely on. If you’re in his way carnage. I cite the career of Theresa May.
A week is a long time in politics but as of now Boris, and I would also say Hancock, are dealing well with covid 19
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
Boris cares about Boris. Sometimes your interests may temporarily align with his. But not someone to rely on. If you’re in his way carnage. I cite the career of Theresa May.
A week is a long time in politics but as of now Boris, and I would also say Hancock, are dealing well with covid 19
Well I certainly agree that we should not be a party of the centre. That's the LibDems. We are a Democratic Socialist party, but that doesn't mean we need to portray ourselves as a bunch of loons fixated on issues that mean nothing to the vast majority of voters.
The natural centre of gravity of the Labour Party is soft left. We have oscillated about this point, but I think after this leadership election the seesaw will be back in balance.
But note: the primary success came when it oscillated towards the centre right under Blair.
That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.
But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.
This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?
Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.
Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.
In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
I forgot to put in my footnote.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
Good points. On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible. Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
Fair comment and my dislike of Trump is turning to real anger
You have a glimpse about how some of us feel about Boris.
I am fully aware of your position on Boris
Indeed, you used to share it.
Times change and right now he is dealing with covid 19 well and believes in trusting his ministers. Furthermore his domestic agenda in levelling up the north is spot on
Boris cares about Boris. Sometimes your interests may temporarily align with his. But not someone to rely on. If you’re in his way carnage. I cite the career of Theresa May.
A week is a long time in politics but as of now Boris, and I would also say Hancock, are dealing well with covid 19
You cannot trust a syllable the man utters. So things might be good, things might be bad, we have no way of knowing. I would hope that Boris will see dealing with the virus as in his interests, so we might be ok. That’s as good as it gets.
Comments
A bit of panic now that slows this down is far preferable to letting rip though the population.
Oh, and for those who say it’s just a worse form of flu: I’ve had flu twice in my life and don’t remember much about those two weeks as I was mostly delirious. The death rate is not the only problem, it’s the number of people who will need medical treatment at the same time.
Italy mortality rate 4.2% so why don't you mention
Germany mortality rate 0% from almost 700 confirmed cases.. Or the S Korea figures.
Obviously this is worse than normal flu, but I guess the 1.4% estimate from Hong Kong scientists is the best estimate so far.
We know that a lot of people in Italy and in Wuhan got infected in hospital, especially amongst people who died. Death rates are a lot higher for people already sick enough to be in hospitals for other reasons.
Is this perhaps a case where a President-elect would understand the concept of mortality and choose a VP for their ability to step-up?
When you think Heathrow employs 76,000 within the airport boundary, that is one place I would certainly be focussing attention to prevent a virus hub.
Sick pay day 1 is a good start but the position of the lower paid and gig workers needs attention. Boris is right that people should not be penalised for doing the right thing. Cash flow for businesses is going to be important, especially airlines, travel companies, restaurants, hotels etc. The pension issue needs to be sorted out for early retired doctors. More cash for staff in the NHS is going to be needed to bring more nurses back. Additional capacity is going to be needed in terms of accommodation etc. TFL is going to take a serious hit. Ditto bus companies. There’s a lot to do.
This will be an enormous strain on the NHS, and also for many individuals, both in physical terms, and on mental health from anxiety and self isolation.
It will wreck the holiday, travel, and events programme for the year, but demand will bounce back quickly, like it did after Spanish Flu. There needs to be bridging support for these businesses to keep them viable, though the weakest will probably go the way of Flybe.
As someone in the events business could @SouthamObserver comment on what reliefs would help tide them over.
*While HIV/AIDS was contained by appropriate measures in the UK, denial and lack of action in Sub Saharan Africa was catastrophic, with millions dead as a result. We should not copy that approach.
HIV also probably started as an animal virus that made the cross species jump too.
We have decided to cancel our trip to Vancouver in May as we are both high risk and when I cancelled air porter at Heathrow said they were receiving lots of cancellation.
Next week HMG looks as if it is going to issue travel advice to the high risk category, (like both of us) to avoid public transport
On that advice I will seek refund of my BA tickets under cancellation clause, as I have already cancelled the hotel free of charge and have had the rail fares refunded
IMHO the economic dislocation is going to be far worse than the virus
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/06/us-coronavirus-death-toll-washington-state
Win Texas and the Dems win bigly.
"He received regular shipments of heron and crack...."
Everyone on here can name and often have opinions about several local government US politicians who aren't even running to take part in an election that's not for 8 months. How many could even name more than 1 or 2 (if that) current German politicians apart from Merkel?
And on the latter bear in mind the political risks swing both ways - responding badly so that hundreds of thousands die, or the risk ultimately appearing to be overplayed combined with severe economic consequences and a public perception of “overreaction”.
On the political spat which seems to have developed on thread, I don’t see how this will damage Johnson particularly (irrespective of my dislike for him). So far he’s mainly got out of the way of the experts, and preparations appear sensible.
Trump, on the other hand, is actively contradicting the advice of his own experts, and is undeniably responsible for a degradation in the US pandemic response capability before the outbreak even happened. People will die as a result of his actions.
https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1236231357833113600?s=20
I think that's got to be wrong given the pace advantage Red Bull has had over the midfield for the last few years.
Sure, there've been worries about other deseases which didn't go on to be realised. But as the medical experts note, this one does have more potential than most to become a pandemic because:
- low but not trivial death-rate, meaning it doesn't kill itself off by denying itself hosts;
- moderate transmission capacity, seemingly
- infectious before obvious symptoms occur, making it very hard to contain.
Sure, it could be worse. It's not a new bubonic plague. All the same, we can't just wish it away because the last one wasn't so bad. It's not the last one and needs to be addressed on its own merits.
You think a meeting room is going to get us through Covid-19? Because it does more than Boris Johnson?
Whether that is consistent with Cummings being in No 10 is still an open question. We'll see. But Boris has little loyalty and Cummings has few friends.
The natural centre of gravity of the Labour Party is soft left. We have oscillated about this point, but I think after this leadership election the seesaw will be back in balance.
Either being unable to delegate, or delegating badly, is a recipe for disaster. There will always be many plates to spin and a PM who knows well whom to trust to keep certain ones spinning can look after the big picture.
1. To have the right people in the right jobs. I believe we can have considerabe confidence in those he has in post - we aren't going to be yearning for the transfer window to buy Mike Pence.
2. Listen to experts. Stand by them in press conferences, where you are open to questions. Otherwise, let those people get on with their jobs in tandem with Ministers.
3. Act as the calm, rational, sensibly upbeat "we can beat this thing, people, if we all take sensible measures and wash our hands for twenty seconds" face of the Government.
4. Go out in a lab coat and meet those who are on the front line, giving them confidence that Government respects the job they are doing - and listening to whetever else they need from Government.
5. Chair the COBRA meeting that draws all these strands together. And if the messages coming back to that COBRA meeting require very difficult decisions to be taken - decisions that at the time may well be politically unpopular - then the job requires he must take them, decisively and without dither.
6. He must act as the nation's lucky rabbit's foot - and get us through this with the least impact on our way of life consistent with curtailing the virus.
But what about you, what does isolation really mean? Telegraph says hug good bye to your relatives for a while as you keep social distance. What about visit to hairdressers, supermarket, saying hi to your neighbours just back from Tenerife?
It’s easy to say “you oldies keep your social distance”. And it makes sense. But just how practical or even doable is it?
With 140,000 people tested, the country’s mortality rate is just over 0.6 per cent compared to the 3.4 per cent global average reported by the WHO