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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson’s tip for Dem running mate: Julian Castro at 25/

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited March 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » David Herdson’s tip for Dem running mate: Julian Castro at 25/1

US Vice Presidents have four main jobs.

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  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    Julian Castro took an admirable but very left wing position on immigration. I can't see Biden going there.
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    edited March 2020
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Biden has played everything safe even when he seemed like he needed to roll the dice, so I can't see him taking a flyer on Texas when there's an easiest path through the mid-west. If coro-chan is still raging then that's even truer, because state governors have the power to quarantine opposing voters.

    For the same reason I think he picks an experienced politician without unpopular positions. I can just about see how Warren might help make up with the left but it wouldn't help much with the unreconcilable Bernie bros so better to play it safe.

    I'd take the 6/1 on KLOBUCHAR just seeing how perky she seemed right after she endorsed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    rcs1000 said:
    Hispanic, female, articulate, Nevada is a swing state, would play well in Arizona too...
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited March 2020
    For those of you interested in a little detective work and heartily sick of the virus, but hopefully not with the virus, the mystery of England rugby's Swing Low, Sweet Chariot appears to have been solved:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51646140

    Love it!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    Biden has played everything safe even when he seemed like he needed to roll the dice, so I can't see him taking a flyer on Texas when there's an easiest path through the mid-west. If coro-chan is still raging then that's even truer, because state governors have the power to quarantine opposing voters.

    For the same reason I think he picks an experienced politician without unpopular positions. I can just about see how Warren might help make up with the left but it wouldn't help much with the unreconcilable Bernie bros so better to play it safe.

    I'd take the 6/1 on KLOBUCHAR just seeing how perky she seemed right after she endorsed.

    Klobuchar is not a stupid call - she'd play reasonably well in the Midwest. But I think Minnesota is safe, while Michigan and Wisconsin are probably going Democrat anyway.

    To become President, Biden needs to pick up something further afield.

    Arizona?
    Florida?
    Pennsylvania?
    Ohio?

    Of the next tranche of states, I reckon Arizona is probably the easiest.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    OT the Trump response to covid19 is amazing. So much scope for stoking up the fear and division that got him elected, yet he decided to play this one with sunny American optimism...

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1236156426973782017
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    OT the Trump response to covid19 is amazing. So much scope for stoking up the fear and division that got him elected, yet he decided to play this one with sunny American optimism...

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1236156426973782017

    In all my history of business, the worst employees were the ones who weren't good with reality.

    If you come to me and say "Robert, our plan to sell ice to eskimos didn't work because x, we need to reconsider," that's good. You are dealing with the world as it is, not how you'd like it to be.

    On the other hand, if you say "Now, I know sales to eskimos look a little disappointing, but we think we just need to tweek the ice formula a bit..." (and I'm stupid enough to believe you) then I will lose a lot of money.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited March 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    Biden has played everything safe even when he seemed like he needed to roll the dice, so I can't see him taking a flyer on Texas when there's an easiest path through the mid-west. If coro-chan is still raging then that's even truer, because state governors have the power to quarantine opposing voters.

    For the same reason I think he picks an experienced politician without unpopular positions. I can just about see how Warren might help make up with the left but it wouldn't help much with the unreconcilable Bernie bros so better to play it safe.

    I'd take the 6/1 on KLOBUCHAR just seeing how perky she seemed right after she endorsed.

    Klobuchar is not a stupid call - she'd play reasonably well in the Midwest. But I think Minnesota is safe, while Michigan and Wisconsin are probably going Democrat anyway.

    To become President, Biden needs to pick up something further afield.

    Arizona?
    Florida?
    Pennsylvania?
    Ohio?

    Of the next tranche of states, I reckon Arizona is probably the easiest.
    I tried flipping just Michigan, Wisconsin and Arizona and I got an electoral college tie, which I think goes to Trump?
    https://www.270towin.com/maps/yyJBR

    Maybe say Iowa's in the bag too, and there's also Omaha, but it seems a bit dicey. Also Arizona has a GOP governor, so they may not let the Democrats vote.

    I'm guessing the kind of things you have to do to be confident of getting Michigan are similar to the things you have to do to have a go at Pennsylvania, so optimizing for that feels like the path of least resistance.

    (None of this takes away from Catherine Cortez Masto being a good spot though, aside from the boxes ticked she seems competent but also kind of fresh and interesting, Biden could do with a little bit of freshness on his ticket.)
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    rcs1000 said:

    OT the Trump response to covid19 is amazing. So much scope for stoking up the fear and division that got him elected, yet he decided to play this one with sunny American optimism...

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1236156426973782017

    In all my history of business, the worst employees were the ones who weren't good with reality.

    Indeed.

    Trump's stupidity is seemingly boundless
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    I would love to see the stats on time between diagnosis and death, by country. One suspects the US would be at the bottom of the list.

    Biden should pick whoever presents the most reassuring credible face to the public on the health crisis.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited March 2020

    OT the Trump response to covid19 is amazing. So much scope for stoking up the fear and division that got him elected, yet he decided to play this one with sunny American optimism...

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1236156426973782017

    The CDC is already telling all Americans over 60 to stay at home as much as possible, avoiding travel and avoiding pretty much anything that involves other people.

    Only advisory advice, of course, but it is hard to see how this turns into a good news outcome for either US jobs or the domestic US travel industry. The people with the time to travel around the US that I met on my journey last autumn were predominantly over 60. Trump isn’t on message at all.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    rcs1000 said:


    In all my history of business, the worst employees were the ones who weren't good with reality.

    Don't know if you've seen this before but apparently one of the books Trump has actually read is "The Power of Positive Thinking", his entire worldview is about this:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/13/donald-trump-positive-thinking-215704
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    moonshine said:

    I would love to see the stats on time between diagnosis and death, by country. One suspects the US would be at the bottom of the list.

    Biden should pick whoever presents the most reassuring credible face to the public on the health crisis.

    The way the US is going, some of those intervals are going to be negative.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218

    rcs1000 said:


    In all my history of business, the worst employees were the ones who weren't good with reality.

    Don't know if you've seen this before but apparently one of the books Trump has actually read is "The Power of Positive Thinking", his entire worldview is about this:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/13/donald-trump-positive-thinking-215704
    I've read Dilbert, does that count?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Wonder if the US will make as big a mess of this as Japan?

    https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1236181171119194112?s=20
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:


    In all my history of business, the worst employees were the ones who weren't good with reality.

    Don't know if you've seen this before but apparently one of the books Trump has actually read is "The Power of Positive Thinking", his entire worldview is about this:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/13/donald-trump-positive-thinking-215704
    I've read Dilbert, does that count?
    Dilbert author Scott Adams was one of Plato's sources for what an awesome job Trump was doing, so yes, it probably does count.

    iirc The Power of Positive Thinking, in an ironic foreword, says the author never imagined it would sell so many copies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Biden has a far greater risk of not making a full term than your average POTUS, so this pick has greater than average significance.

    Biden polls well with African Americans, perhaps less so with Hispanics, but that is a very diverse group. Mexican Americans are quite distinct politically from Cuban Americans or Puerto Ricans. Women also tilt Dem already.

    While Klobuchar is my choice, I think the odds too short. I agree Castro has some value, but have also put the price of a pint on Sherod Brown at 60/1 and John Hickenlooper. Both have a certain solidity that may play well in the Flyover states, and also on O'Rouke.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    edited March 2020
    VP nominee: if it is to be from one of the former presidential candidates, which I doubt, then Beto for Texas (as DH's header says, that state is a huge prize) or possibly Andrew Yang (assuming he can deliver his Yang Gang supporters) seem more likely. But it normally is not, perhaps because a former candidate will have spent months criticising the man on top of the ticket. Biden himself, as VP to Obama, is an obvious exception.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Foxy said:

    Biden has a far greater risk of not making a full term than your average POTUS, so this pick has greater than average significance.

    Biden polls well with African Americans, perhaps less so with Hispanics, but that is a very diverse group. Mexican Americans are quite distinct politically from Cuban Americans or Puerto Ricans. Women also tilt Dem already.

    While Klobuchar is my choice, I think the odds too short. I agree Castro has some value, but have also put the price of a pint on Sherod Brown at 60/1 and John Hickenlooper. Both have a certain solidity that may play well in the Flyover states, and also on O'Rouke.

    Sherod Brown might be a great call
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    The Telegraph and Express pages show Boris has raided the dressing up box again for one of his information-free photo-ops. The Prime Minister donned a blue lab coat and pretended to be a scientist.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51778152
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464
    I don't recall ever seeing any figures on whether the (almost) 50% of Americans who don't vote are always the same people, or whether there's a significant tranche of people who only vote 'sometimes'.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:

    Biden has a far greater risk of not making a full term than your average POTUS, so this pick has greater than average significance.

    Biden polls well with African Americans, perhaps less so with Hispanics, but that is a very diverse group. Mexican Americans are quite distinct politically from Cuban Americans or Puerto Ricans. Women also tilt Dem already.

    While Klobuchar is my choice, I think the odds too short. I agree Castro has some value, but have also put the price of a pint on Sherod Brown at 60/1 and John Hickenlooper. Both have a certain solidity that may play well in the Flyover states, and also on O'Rouke.

    Sherod Brown might be a great call
    I think My Boy Sherrod Brown is a bad bet for the VP for exactly the same reasons I thought he was a lock for the Nomination.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Warren would make a decent vp choice. They need someone to unify the party and a potential president.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    The Telegraph and Express pages show Boris has raided the dressing up box again for one of his information-free photo-ops. The Prime Minister donned a blue lab coat and pretended to be a scientist.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51778152

    Reminds me of Mr Benn when I was a kid.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    They brought it with them, nailed on. The case in Bhutan is an American tourist too.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    Jonathan said:

    Warren would make a decent vp choice. They need someone to unify the party and a potential president.

    Warren forced Bloomberg out of the race and I'm unconvinced Biden would want to endanger megabucks of anti-Trump advertising from that quarter.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    Or that these are the ones getting tested and the virus is far more widespread as many many multiples are not getting tested in the general population. this means that the mortality rate is a lot lower and maybe we should all stop trying to stop society in its tracks.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,932
    IanB2 said:

    The Telegraph and Express pages show Boris has raided the dressing up box again for one of his information-free photo-ops. The Prime Minister donned a blue lab coat and pretended to be a scientist.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51778152

    Reminds me of Mr Benn when I was a kid.
    We should ask @Sunil_Prasannan which colour lab coats are best.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,464

    IanB2 said:

    The Telegraph and Express pages show Boris has raided the dressing up box again for one of his information-free photo-ops. The Prime Minister donned a blue lab coat and pretended to be a scientist.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51778152

    Reminds me of Mr Benn when I was a kid.
    We should ask @Sunil_Prasannan which colour lab coats are best.
    I thought lab coats were always white! Hospital scrubs are green or blue and when I worked in a sterile dispensary we were kitted out in very light green.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Until 6-weeks ago I was convinced Trump was an absolute shoo-in for the Presidency.

    Increasingly I feel he has blown it. His stupid misplaced positive thinking (see below) is completely at variance with the gravity of what's going on and has the potential to make the US as bad as Iran in terms of not dealing with this.

    It's a timebomb. Of all the countries the world should be putting into isolation, it's the US.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    Warren would make a decent vp choice. They need someone to unify the party and a potential president.

    Warren forced Bloomberg out of the race and I'm unconvinced Biden would want to endanger megabucks of anti-Trump advertising from that quarter.
    Warren might be able to bring the Bernie wing in board. The thing that Clinton didn’t do. Bloomberg is on the record as being committed to do whatever it takes. So still a decent choice.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    Or that these are the ones getting tested and the virus is far more widespread as many many multiples are not getting tested in the general population. this means that the mortality rate is a lot lower and maybe we should all stop trying to stop society in its tracks.
    I don't think there is widespread asymptomatic disease. Both here and Korea we are not finding much. I just think America is brewing a major problem.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    I think Egypt is in De Nile with regards to its numbers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    https://twitter.com/MrMichaelSpicer/status/1236191780783173634?s=09

    Donald Trump can win the Afghanistan War in a week it seems....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    I think Egypt is in De Nile with regards to its numbers.
    We are just seeing the tip of the pyramid.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good morning, everyone.

    No idea about the VP, but on dealing with reality I encountered a tweet recently that got some reactions. It's since been deleted, but it was by some professor or other about how in 1630 there was a plague in Venice, but thanks to prayer and positive thinking it was gone by 1631. A few of the comments did point out that tens of thousands of people died...

    F1: Perez all the way down to 67 in Oz (was 151 not so long ago) and Stroll's now shorter than Sainz, so the market clearly thinks that McLaren will be leapfrogged by Racing Point this year.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Until 6-weeks ago I was convinced Trump was an absolute shoo-in for the Presidency.

    Increasingly I feel he has blown it. His stupid misplaced positive thinking (see below) is completely at variance with the gravity of what's going on and has the potential to make the US as bad as Iran in terms of not dealing with this.

    It's a timebomb. Of all the countries the world should be putting into isolation, it's the US.

    Ironically whilst Trump obsesses about stupid stuff like building walls and tariffs on this he has it right. This is a virus that is perhaps a bit more dangerous than flu but not much - Flu kills tens of thousands a year in Britain and we carry on. Many people are getting this that are not being tested .The proof is in these cruises cases where its impossible for that many to be infected without it being widespread in the general population . Lets carry on and not make irrational decisions that will impact and probably kill more people of other things if we do get obsessed by this nasty but hardly that deadly virus. The true mortality rate of this I suggest is to take the South Korea one of 0.6 %and half it .
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    I think Egypt is in De Nile with regards to its numbers.
    We are just seeing the tip of the pyramid.
    Interesting that the latest batch of cases were all asymptomatic
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:


    In all my history of business, the worst employees were the ones who weren't good with reality.

    Don't know if you've seen this before but apparently one of the books Trump has actually read is "The Power of Positive Thinking", his entire worldview is about this:
    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/10/13/donald-trump-positive-thinking-215704
    I've read Dilbert, does that count?
    Scott Adams is a Trump supporter. What the hell happened to him?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Alistair said:

    Foxy said:

    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    I think Egypt is in De Nile with regards to its numbers.
    We are just seeing the tip of the pyramid.
    Interesting that the latest batch of cases were all asymptomatic
    Pre-symptomatic, I expect rather than asymptomatic. But we will see.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited March 2020
    After a sluggish start I think the Gov't are handling this okay at the moment. Not too bad. We're in trouble, big trouble, but there's probably not a huge amount can be done although I'd like to have seen more stringent isolation and lockdown measures.

    The thing that strikes me most, however, is that it reminds me of Black Wednesday. It occurred on 16th September 1992, 5 months after John Major won a surprise victory. The events of that week in September effectively ended the Conservatives' long reign of power. And, contrary to popular opinion, it wasn't entirely their fault. The events would have still hit Labour if Kinnock had won the election. Okay, the attempt to hold off the inevitable through mega high interest rate spikes was cack-handed, but the ejection from the ERM was the only route out of the disaster. Ironically that more than anything probably paved the way for the Cool Britannia boom years.

    We now have another external event that is going to have an even greater economic and visceral impact on this country. It's outside of the Gov't making and outside of their control. Events, as MacMillan once pointed out, are the arbiter of political success or failure. True, this time around Boris enjoys a much larger majority than Major. But ultimately, if this goes as pear-shaped as seems on the cards then it doesn't matter how great Boris is, he and they will still get the subliminal blame at the ballot box.

    The Conservatives never recovered from the loss of competence surrounding Black Wednesday.

    I wonder if the same may prove true of the new Black Death?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    They brought it with them, nailed on. The case in Bhutan is an American tourist too.
    It is hard to see how a working hypotheses that this is being transmitted mostly inside transport - airplanes between countries, and buses or trains in China and Italy - fails to fit the data. Planes in particular tend to be used back and forth on the same route, so once a virus is inside a plane it’s there to infect subsequent batches of passengers even if there isn’t a carrier on board.

    In which case the US has an additional challenge given the volume of its domestic aviation market.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited March 2020
    Alistair said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    I think Egypt is in De Nile with regards to its numbers.
    Giza break.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Until 6-weeks ago I was convinced Trump was an absolute shoo-in for the Presidency.

    Increasingly I feel he has blown it. His stupid misplaced positive thinking (see below) is completely at variance with the gravity of what's going on and has the potential to make the US as bad as Iran in terms of not dealing with this.

    It's a timebomb. Of all the countries the world should be putting into isolation, it's the US.

    Ironically whilst Trump obsesses about stupid stuff like building walls and tariffs on this he has it right. This is a virus that is perhaps a bit more dangerous than flu but not much - Flu kills tens of thousands a year in Britain and we carry on. Many people are getting this that are not being tested .The proof is in these cruises cases where its impossible for that many to be infected without it being widespread in the general population . Lets carry on and not make irrational decisions that will impact and probably kill more people of other things if we do get obsessed by this nasty but hardly that deadly virus. The true mortality rate of this I suggest is to take the South Korea one of 0.6 %and half it .
    The South Korean mortality is affected by two things, the time lag, so the denominator is a week or two out of date, and the cases there are disproportionately young and female.

    https://twitter.com/YangeHan/status/1235866453028438019?s=19
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    edited March 2020

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    Or that these are the ones getting tested and the virus is far more widespread as many many multiples are not getting tested in the general population. this means that the mortality rate is a lot lower and maybe we should all stop trying to stop society in its tracks.
    Yes indeed, a point I have also made.

    Maybe there are aircrew - who being mostly young and fit are more likely to be asymptomatic or mild symptom carriers - who are unknowingly also superspreaders?
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Too early for anyone named CASTRO to help gain votes in the US.

    Can’t he pick a Stalin or a Hitler ?

  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    They brought it with them, nailed on. The case in Bhutan is an American tourist too.
    It is hard to see how a working hypotheses that this is being transmitted mostly inside transport - airplanes between countries, and buses or trains in China and Italy - fails to fit the data. Planes in particular tend to be used back and forth on the same route, so once a virus is inside a plane it’s there to infect subsequent batches of passengers even if there isn’t a carrier on board.

    In which case the US has an additional challenge given the volume of its domestic aviation market.
    So Flybe collapse will save thousands of lives...
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    p.s. fantastic example of how to twist statistics through rubbing out the bits that don't fit your trope by state-away down thread. You should apply for a post in North Korea. They'd love you.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    Look I don't mind challenge but can we keep the keyboard insults away please.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    They brought it with them, nailed on. The case in Bhutan is an American tourist too.
    It is hard to see how a working hypotheses that this is being transmitted mostly inside transport - airplanes between countries, and buses or trains in China and Italy - fails to fit the data. Planes in particular tend to be used back and forth on the same route, so once a virus is inside a plane it’s there to infect subsequent batches of passengers even if there isn’t a carrier on board.

    In which case the US has an additional challenge given the volume of its domestic aviation market.
    Stick to the Red Funnel, and the Signature Lounge there!
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    p.s. fantastic example of how to twist statistics through rubbing out the bits that don't fit your trope by state-away down thread. You should apply for a post in North Korea. They'd love you.

    That better?

    Good.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    ://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21
    This genie is not going to quietly go back in the bottle.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1236188850763988993?s=19
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    People stealing hand gel from hospitals are fucking idiots.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    They brought it with them, nailed on. The case in Bhutan is an American tourist too.
    It is hard to see how a working hypotheses that this is being transmitted mostly inside transport - airplanes between countries, and buses or trains in China and Italy - fails to fit the data. Planes in particular tend to be used back and forth on the same route, so once a virus is inside a plane it’s there to infect subsequent batches of passengers even if there isn’t a carrier on board.

    In which case the US has an additional challenge given the volume of its domestic aviation market.
    Stick to the Red Funnel, and the Signature Lounge there!
    We like the dog room on RF, although I mostly travel by Wightlink. But it isn’t like a plane where people are crammed in adjacent to each other and not free to move around. I am coming to the view that it is air travel, rather than particular destinations, that is the issue.

    If I had access to the data I would love to know how many of those who apparently caught the disease in Italy travelled there other than by plane. There are car and lorry drivers making trips across Europe all the time.

    Of course I have an interest in holding this view, as I have a trip to Italy by car impending.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited March 2020
    Current mortality rate in Italy is 4.2%

    Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).

    We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.

    The bare facts are fairly clear:

    The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.

    Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51777049
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    I guess Jenkins is a double whammy - a Blairite and an end of the world denier...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21
    A truly embarrassing piece. And link.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Foxy said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    ://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21
    This genie is not going to quietly go back in the bottle.

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/1236188850763988993?s=19
    Indeed. Although one must consider that it’s quite likely not “ordinary people” being selfish, but criminal gangs looking to profit from their sale. Not sure which is more depressing though.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    I think the mortality rate calculations definitely need to have a factor that both takes into account the best estimate of a factor that allows for those that will never be tested but have it and also (on the other side) the fact that people who have it have not yet recovered. The way it seems to be done at the moment with a simple dead versus tested positive is way too simplistic and misleading and leading to panic and bad decision making weather on a government or individual level.
    If these factors are taken into the calculation then I strongly suspect that we are dealing with a virus that is slghtly more dangerous than normal flu and we can all just then get on with watching (unfortunately ) Liverpool win the league , the olympics and summer holidays (even to Italy!)
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Current mortality rate in Italy is 4.2%

    Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).

    We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.

    The bare facts are fairly clear:

    The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.

    Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51777049

    So you think it’ll be 1,500,000 Brits, not 150,000?
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    edited March 2020

    Current mortality rate in Italy is 4.2%

    Cue the Normalcy Bias Deniers who will try any old ruse to turn stats to lies. E.g. 'oh but there are millions who have it asymptomatically' or 'but more of them die of flu' (neatly ignoring the vaccination issue).

    We don't know how many of the 4600 currently infected will go on to die, but it won't be zero.

    The bare facts are fairly clear:

    The WHO mortality rate is 3.6%, Italy 4.2%.

    Deny away if it makes your weekend feel better. I don't blame you actually. Just don't try and pass it off as truth.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51777049

    That is a simple calculation of deaths versus those tested positive . there must be 10 times that number in Italy who dont get tested but have it (why would you get tested if you have mild illness and risk draconian measures on you). That means the mortality rate is well under 1% -like flu. Hopefully too simple maths wont cause society breakdown for no reason
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    TGOHF666 said:
    With the news full of the medical dangers of travelling to Europe, hardly a surprise.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?

    Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862

    The Telegraph and Express pages show Boris has raided the dressing up box again for one of his information-free photo-ops. The Prime Minister donned a blue lab coat and pretended to be a scientist.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-51778152

    Mr Benn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    IanB2 said:

    OT the Trump response to covid19 is amazing. So much scope for stoking up the fear and division that got him elected, yet he decided to play this one with sunny American optimism...

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1236156426973782017

    The CDC is already telling all Americans over 60 to stay at home as much as possible, avoiding travel and avoiding pretty much anything that involves other people.

    Only advisory advice, of course, but it is hard to see how this turns into a good news outcome for either US jobs or the domestic US travel industry. The people with the time to travel around the US that I met on my journey last autumn were predominantly over 60. Trump isn’t on message at all.
    When I've done birdwatching trips to the US, the only people you see on nature reserves during the week are the retired. (And most have just taken up birdwatching and couldn't tell a duck from a dodo....)
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.

    I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.

  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    edited March 2020
    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:
    With the news full of the medical dangers of travelling to Europe, hardly a surprise.
    I think it's more "we've left the EU and nothing bad has happened". I don't think a lot of people are aware of the transition period.
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 757
    Italy are doing post-mortem tests. Is this the case for all European countries?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,862
    IanB2 said:

    That nine Americans now with the virus apparently caught it on two separate Nile cruises seems peculiar. As far as we know, there isn’t a problem yet in Egypt, with until recently only one reported case being the returnee from China, plus two new cases just announced,

    Three positives out of the millions of people in Egypt, and those on a Nile cruise would have had next to no close contact with ordinary Egyptians beyond the crew. This doesn’t compute as a credible story.

    These Americans were travelling in groups, and surely caught it together on the airplane journey to or from their holiday? Either somebody on the plane was a carrier (and one thinks of the aircrew also) or the virus is surviving for longer than expected on the cool hard surfaces inside an airconditioned airplane. The turnaround times for planes nowadays are often so tight that they don’t get cleaned properly, nor warm up to outside air temperature.

    There are far too many people coming back from travel destinations who subsequently test positive to be credible against the tiny numbers of carriers in these destinations. Surely it is being on the aircraft that is the risk?

    More likely airports with travelers from various destinations in transport. Stay away from airports.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    In that image, Castro looks like the driver of a Johnny Cab.....
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.

    I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.

    The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?

    Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.

    It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    edited March 2020
    IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    That is no longer true, if it ever was. I can't remember "similar panics," what were they about?

    Instead of going "hurr hurr hurr eadric" perhaps accept that the good Dr Fox probably knows more about what we can likely expect, than the rest of the board combined. What sort of tone do you think he is setting?
    I think that previous medical panics over AIDS in the eighties* and BSE in the nineties didn't become catastrophic was precisely because appropriate action was taken, not that there was no threat.

    Those diseases had a much slower incubation period, so there was time to act. Much less so with the much faster moving Coronavirus.

    In any case, self preservation is kicking in. It won't take government action to clamp down on unnecessary travel, large crowds and public events as people are socially distancing already. Government instructions might well be helpful to guide decisions, and also for insurance to kick in. Some bridging relief for affected sectors should be a key part of the budget. So as to lessen the economic hit.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.

    I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.

    The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?

    Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.

    It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.

    You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.

  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816
    People are generally canceling foreign holidays not because they are afraid of catching and dying of Covid -19 but the fear of not being able to get back or being quarantined abroad . This is utterly a ridiculous situation where people are fearing government decisions more than the actual illness. it shows governments are over reacting and there definitely is a bad case of Groupthink infecting the world if not a plague.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.

    I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.

    The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?

    Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.

    It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.
    You’ve gone silly.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited March 2020

    People are generally canceling foreign holidays not because they are afraid of catching and dying of Covid -19 but the fear of not being able to get back or being quarantined abroad . This is utterly a ridiculous situation where people are fearing government decisions more than the actual illness. it shows governments are over reacting and there definitely is a bad case of Groupthink infecting the world if not a plague.

    That's not at all a ridiculous situation. Currently you have not many people infected, but a lot of potential growth. Any single infected person can easily create a chain of 2->4->8->... resulting in a large number of infections, some of them of vulnerable people. In that situation you currently shouldn't be very scared of catching it, but the government should be trying very hard to prevent even a very small probability of you spreading it.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    TGOHF666 said:
    It's a shame we never found out who this 'alleged victim' was. The laser-like precision with which they were able to identify and define the essence of Opik and Bercow is truly admirable.
  • GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    Even when there is irrefutable evidence and world leading experts including the head of the WHO warning of an extreme threat, very stupid people opine that they know better.

    It's probably a form of mental illness, extreme arrogance or something else perhaps more malevolent.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    People are generally canceling foreign holidays not because they are afraid of catching and dying of Covid -19 but the fear of not being able to get back or being quarantined abroad . This is utterly a ridiculous situation where people are fearing government decisions more than the actual illness. it shows governments are over reacting and there definitely is a bad case of Groupthink infecting the world if not a plague.

    That's not at all a ridiculous situation. Currently you have not many people infected, but a lot of potential growth. Any single infected person can easily create a chain of 2->4->8->... resulting in a large number of infections, some of them of vulnerable people. In that situation you currently shouldn't be very scared of catching it, but the government should be trying very hard to prevent even a very small probability of you spreading it.
    My recommendation would be that all aircrew be tested, right away
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
    PM with 80 seat majority 2 month ago is “due comeuppance”....

    If the left want to govern they have to earn it with hard work on policy and convincing voters. Not just “ Buggins turn” and Nanking Noserun.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    TGOHF666 said:

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    Boris is certainly overdue his comeuppance, but Coronavirus is not it. Boris has done quite enough harm already. Let’s hope he gets the response right, or at least lets those that know what their doing get on with the job unhindered by his sound bites and Machiavellian politicking.
    PM with 80 seat majority 2 month ago is “due comeuppance”....

    If the left want to govern they have to earn it with hard work on policy and convincing voters. Not just “ Buggins turn” and Nanking Noserun.

    Eh? Have you been at the hand sanitiser this morning?
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    IanB2 said:

    TGOHF666 said:

    Those pathetics trying to dismiss this as 'little more than flu' remind me of the stay-at-home armchair generals in World War One who remained oblivious to the situation in the trenches, even when men were dropping like flies.

    Truth will out.

    And the idiots will eventually shut the f-up.

    You mean like the Guardian ?

    https://twitter.com/jowilliams293/status/1236187718499078149?s=21

    That’s not “The Guardian”, it’s an idiot who writes for The Guardian. Jenkins has form. What a fool.

    But the general tone of his article is right. There have been similar panics before, and they have proved false, or the problem has been solved before we reached disaster.

    This doesn’t mean a disaster isn’t possible, of course. But it does mean we should try and maintain a balanced view. We are after all still waiting for the post-Brexit national collapse that a certain PB’er was predicting in the days after he had just voted for it.
    Isn’t it a sign of how far the Labour (and Democratic) parties have fallen away as serious opposition?

    Left wingers are now left praying for plague, global warming and Brexit to bring down the Boris, Trump governments that they despise.

    They don’t even trust our wonderful infallible NHS to save us all.

    Loving the idea that Simon Jenkins is left wing!!!!

    He’s not part of the group praying for calamity to bring down Boris.

    I doubt many people are praying for calamity. You should stop thinking so poorly of people.

    The glee filled posts about the ills coming to the Uk and the USA are just by accident then ?

    Not just Covid - Brexit, rising seas, droughts, etc.

    It’s a clear admission that left wing parties can’t win on policy.

    You are projecting. Why would anyone take pleasure in disaster? I thought it was lefties who were supposed to think ill of those who do not agree with them.

    Multiple posts every day “Murricas gonna get it bad”.

    Not many (zero) on France or Germany.

    It’s very transparent.
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,816

    Even when there is irrefutable evidence and world leading experts including the head of the WHO warning of an extreme threat, very stupid people opine that they know better.

    It's probably a form of mental illness, extreme arrogance or something else perhaps more malevolent.

    Again dont mind challenge but stop the keyboard insults please.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    IanB2 said:

    OT the Trump response to covid19 is amazing. So much scope for stoking up the fear and division that got him elected, yet he decided to play this one with sunny American optimism...

    https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1236156426973782017

    The CDC is already telling all Americans over 60 to stay at home as much as possible, avoiding travel and avoiding pretty much anything that involves other people.

    Only advisory advice, of course, but it is hard to see how this turns into a good news outcome for either US jobs or the domestic US travel industry. The people with the time to travel around the US that I met on my journey last autumn were predominantly over 60. Trump isn’t on message at all.
    When I've done birdwatching trips to the US, the only people you see on nature reserves during the week are the retired. (And most have just taken up birdwatching and couldn't tell a duck from a dodo....)
    Tbf America does have a lot of funny birds.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    Even when there is irrefutable evidence and world leading experts including the head of the WHO warning of an extreme threat, very stupid people opine that they know better.

    It's probably a form of mental illness, extreme arrogance or something else perhaps more malevolent.

    Mental illness was the insult of choice to Brexiteers.

    No dissecting the arguments - just no platform and use crude insults demeaning mental illness.

    Meanwhile 16+ suicides daily.
This discussion has been closed.