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Yes but look: he doesn't. That is what I was getting at. Corbyn in the last couple of days has suddenly looked younger and fitter. Look at his face, or even just the angle of his glasses.KentRising said:
Because he's an utterly shit MP and Leader of the Opposition?kle4 said:
Corbyn really needs to ask himself why he comes across so badly between elections. It's not the media, he gets plenty of bad press during an election.Gallowgate said:
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.Luckyguy1983 said:
Let's not rehearse the Brexit argument again. Your own answer tells me (and you) all you need to know. Thankfully, there are many more people who will be voting with the country's best interest at heart, and you will have a lot of cause to be grateful to them in the coming years.Gallowgate said:
You guys are happy to inflict a ‘no deal’ Brexit in revenge so no sympathy from me I’m afraid.Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alot) about the economic drawbacks of Brexit, which worst case scenario is predicted to make us 'grow less', can vote to put Corbyn in power, is beyond me. Nothing to do with antisemitism, which I deplore, it's what they have confirmed they would do to the economy. It's not even like it's in any way hidden beneath a mask of bland Blairism. Nobody could vote for that unless out of revenge on the country, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I mean, I think I’m now voting Labour but I could wobble in the voting booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
You only have yourselves to blame.
Great campaigner though. When he doesn't seem like he's just had a stroke.1 -
Did anyone take up my 15/4 tip on Claire Wright in East Devon? I got on it.
According to the MRP she is exactly neck-and-neck. I reckon she's going to do it.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/10/key-findings-our-final-mrp-poll
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1204530880728961024?s=20
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I am guessing we are due a full range of polls today? Any ETAs on those?0
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Or the fact Boris is a thrice fired liar with a penchant for promising of saying and promising the first thing that enters his brain which will allow him to escape the question.Nigel_Foremain said:
You make him sound almost appealing, and then one has to remember anti-Semitism, terrorist sympathy and neo-Marxist Venezuelan economics.Foxy said:
Yes, campaigning is the bit of politics that he most enjoys, and indeed advocacy for constituents down on their luck. It is the stuff in Parliament that he finds less interesting, the opposite to most MPs.eek said:
I think he really enjoys campaigning..DecrepiterJohnL said:Jeremy Corbyn: has he just recovered from some illness or is he botoxed up to the gills? He suddenly looks ten years younger, or at least two years back to 2017.
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The LDs had a great opportunity to challenge both main parties at this election and failed to take advantage of it.RochdalePioneers said:Neither Johnson nor Corbyn are fit to be PM. The Tory campaign (and PB Tories here) rightly point to the many disgusting failings of Corbyn and say "DON'T VOTE FOR HIM". And they are right. Corbyn and those close to him are an utter disgrace.
Then you reverse the perspective. Look at the many disgusting failings of Johnson. Look to a future where being openly lied to is normal, where 1984 style truth become lies and lies become truth. Johnson lying perhaps even to himself about the nature of his "miraculous" deal and what it means for NI. Lying about hospitals. About nurses. About racism in his own party. Johnson and those close to him are an utter disgrace.
So with respect to some of the shrieking last night from biased people insisting their man is pure as the driven snow look at the failing of the bad guy could I refer you to Matthew 7:5? The notion that EITHER of the front benches should be in office is disgusting. The real mood on the streets is one of resigned revulsion not enthusiasm.
The best result - like with the EU - is the current result. A massively hung parliament. Labour cannot win any more than a couple of seats from the Tories at best. Their great hope is not to lose seats like Sunderland to the Tories. SO blue pants being shat were trollied in waste - Corbyn won't be PM and nor should he be. At the same time Johnson should not be PM either. If he has to remain so we need to mathematically bind his hands. No majority. No coalition partners. No succour. So if people who can't vote for Corbyn find themselves putting a cross in a Labour box to stop Johnson so what? It isn't a vote to put Jezbollah into office because that cannot happen.0 -
Oh Jeremy Corbyn! If you listen closely, you can pick out TSE's fine singing voice at the match last night.
https://twitter.com/LauraPidcockMP/status/12045136488756224000 -
He also gets some good press during elections because people like his policies. Whereas between elections his press is relentlessly negative.kle4 said:
Corbyn really needs to ask himself why he comes across so badly between elections. It's not the media, he gets plenty of bad press during an election.
More generally, this isn't limited to Corbyn, it's a common problem for Labour leaders. Blair got around it by wooing the Sun and Murdoch. Miliband just didn't have a big enough policy offer to stop people talking about ridiculous confected controversies like bacon sandwiches.
But Corbyn has shown an alternative route of having a bold policy offer that people like. Combine that boldness with a leader with less baggage and I think/hope we could get a left-wing govt.0 -
I expect us to pick up a decent haul of seats as tactical voting monsters the UNS. But I do agree - the road back from the Coalition disaster is long. Look at it the other way - LibDems will do far better than TIG/ex TIG independents...Andy_JS said:The LDs had a great opportunity to challenge both main parties at this election and failed to take advantage of it.
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It's tough being a liverpool fan sometimes.DecrepiterJohnL said:Oh Jeremy Corbyn! If you listen closely, you can pick out TSE's fine singing voice at the match last night.
https://twitter.com/LauraPidcockMP/status/12045136488756224000 -
They were probably singing FFS Jeremy Corbyn!DecrepiterJohnL said:Oh Jeremy Corbyn! If you listen closely, you can pick out TSE's fine singing voice at the match last night.
https://twitter.com/LauraPidcockMP/status/12045136488756224000 -
I concur. Definite signs of SLab recovery. I think they would have held Kirkcaldy even without the SNP handing it to them on a plate. Now looking nervously at several other seats.Alistair said:I think SLab are seeing a resurgence. They are going to poll 20%+ and that could well dent the SNP just like in 2017.
I am inspecting constituency bets.0 -
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-boris-johnson-hides-fridge-21070803
It’s all falling apart0 -
Indeed. I am not a fan of either of the revolting individuals that purport to be appropriate candidates for the most senior position in our highly flawed system of representative democracy.eek said:
Or the fact Boris is a thrice fired liar with a penchant for promising of saying and promising the first thing that enters his brain which will allow him to escape the question.Nigel_Foremain said:
You make him sound almost appealing, and then one has to remember anti-Semitism, terrorist sympathy and neo-Marxist Venezuelan economics.Foxy said:
Yes, campaigning is the bit of politics that he most enjoys, and indeed advocacy for constituents down on their luck. It is the stuff in Parliament that he finds less interesting, the opposite to most MPs.eek said:
I think he really enjoys campaigning..DecrepiterJohnL said:Jeremy Corbyn: has he just recovered from some illness or is he botoxed up to the gills? He suddenly looks ten years younger, or at least two years back to 2017.
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Too close for comfort - Bozo in Guiseley this morning turning the milk sour.0
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3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.eek said:
Was it and did it? The direction of travel was the UK onthe outskirts of the EU whilst retaining a say versus trying to get outside the EU with a grade A mess.Alanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnight and nor will all of them get addressedeek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I mean, I think I’m now voting Labour but I could wobble in the voting booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their scream from 3 years ago hasn't solved any of their issues (although being honest nothing anyone could actually do would resolve their issues)..
As I assume you haven't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
what the vote did was stop the direction of travel and force the politicos to reassess what was on their agenda
Granted it wasn't sold like that but that was the reality even before the referendum.
And it's been 3 years which means there has been enough time for these things to be resolved.
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.
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But why are they recovering? I don’t get itStuartDickson said:
I concur. Definite signs of SLab recovery. I think they would have held Kirkcaldy even without the SNP handing it to them on a plate. Now looking nervously at several other seats.Alistair said:I think SLab are seeing a resurgence. They are going to poll 20%+ and that could well dent the SNP just like in 2017.
I am inspecting constituency bets.0 -
Not backing it because I followed a tip (Dr. Foxy, I think) at 38, but Betfair has Leicester at 15.5 for the title. Might be worth a look.0
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I seem to be a bit unusual, in that I am fairly neutral on Corbyn. I think his economics are bonkers and his obsession with Israel and Palestine repulsive, but he is genuinely compassionate and his humble personal eccentricities with jam and allotment a charming English eccentricity.Nigel_Foremain said:
You make him sound almost appealing, and then one has to remember anti-Semitism, terrorist sympathy and neo-Marxist Venezuelan economics.Foxy said:
Yes, campaigning is the bit of politics that he most enjoys, and indeed advocacy for constituents down on their luck. It is the stuff in Parliament that he finds less interesting, the opposite to most MPs.eek said:
I think he really enjoys campaigning..DecrepiterJohnL said:Jeremy Corbyn: has he just recovered from some illness or is he botoxed up to the gills? He suddenly looks ten years younger, or at least two years back to 2017.
I suppose that I recognise the essential duality of man in him, and that conflict between the devil and the angel.2 -
And it's possible that tomorrow those same people (the one Cummings was hoping to use to win this election) may come out and vote.Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.
If they do who do you think they will vote for - I suspect it won't be Boris after this campaign..0 -
Lol. If I had never seen your previous posts I would have thought you were being ironic. The man is a complete fuckwit. If the lying toad, aka Boris Johnson, gets a majority it is Mr. Thicky's fault, along with his cabal of Marxist dinosaurs. Labour is a basket case because of Corbyn. The quicker it ditches him and returns to sensible centre left politics the better for all of us of all political hues.DecrepiterJohnL said:
Yes but look: he doesn't. That is what I was getting at. Corbyn in the last couple of days has suddenly looked younger and fitter. Look at his face, or even just the angle of his glasses.KentRising said:
Because he's an utterly shit MP and Leader of the Opposition?kle4 said:
Corbyn really needs to ask himself why he comes across so badly between elections. It's not the media, he gets plenty of bad press during an election.Gallowgate said:
Keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.Luckyguy1983 said:
Let's not rehearse the Brexit argument again. Your own answer tells me (and you) all you need to know. Thankfully, there are many more people who will be voting with the country's best interest at heart, and you will have a lot of cause to be grateful to them in the coming years.Gallowgate said:
You guys are happy to inflict a ‘no deal’ Brexit in revenge so no sympathy from me I’m afraid.Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alot) about the economic drawbacks of Brexit, which worst case scenario is predicted to make us 'grow less', can vote to put Corbyn in power, is beyond me. Nothing to do with antisemitism, which I deplore, it's what they have confirmed they would do to the economy. It's not even like it's in any way hidden beneath a mask of bland Blairism. Nobody could vote for that unless out of revenge on the country, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I mean, I think I’m now voting Labour but I could wobble in the voting booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
You only have yourselves to blame.
Great campaigner though. When he doesn't seem like he's just had a stroke.0 -
Who was it tipping Salzburg?DecrepiterJohnL said:Oh Jeremy Corbyn! If you listen closely, you can pick out TSE's fine singing voice at the match last night.
https://twitter.com/LauraPidcockMP/status/12045136488756224000 -
I'm struggling to see what seat (even those nearby) this is a campaign stop for. Any ideas or are is the Tory high command far more scared than their supporters on here are.SandyRentool said:Too close for comfort - Bozo in Guiseley this morning turning the milk sour.
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Bad poll for Buttigieg as he falls to 3rd in Iowa and for Warren as she falls to 4th.
Great poll for Biden as he moves back to top and good poll for Sanders too as he moves to 2nd place just 1% off the lead in the early caucus state. Encouraging gains for Klobuchar fans too0 -
That's the latest spin for the extreme left is it? Replace the hopeless Jeremy and try and convince the voter that Venezuelan socialism would work in the UK with one more heave? You are kidding yourself.rkrkrk said:
He also gets some good press during elections because people like his policies. Whereas between elections his press is relentlessly negative.kle4 said:
Corbyn really needs to ask himself why he comes across so badly between elections. It's not the media, he gets plenty of bad press during an election.
More generally, this isn't limited to Corbyn, it's a common problem for Labour leaders. Blair got around it by wooing the Sun and Murdoch. Miliband just didn't have a big enough policy offer to stop people talking about ridiculous confected controversies like bacon sandwiches.
But Corbyn has shown an alternative route of having a bold policy offer that people like. Combine that boldness with a leader with less baggage and I think/hope we could get a left-wing govt.0 -
Inexact science but I do lot of work in that constituency and my numbers put Labour slightly ahead of the Lib Dems in Wimbledon, assuming the current rate of switchers continues today.murali_s said:
Still not sure but firming up to be Lib Dems even though Jo Swinson is truly a terrible leader. Uncle Vince would have been so much better (and that's saying something!)Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
Priority is to get the flip-flopping hapless Stephen Hammond kicked out of Wimbledon. Word on the ground here is that it's still relatively close but a split Labour / LibDem vote would allow Hammond to survive (sadly).
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I think it likely to be a trading bet. Liverpool would have to lose 3 games while Leicester keep winning.Morris_Dancer said:Not backing it because I followed a tip (Dr. Foxy, I think) at 38, but Betfair has Leicester at 15.5 for the title. Might be worth a look.
There is only one other team in that title race though, and Liverpool have a very busy season. If Mane starts misfiring like Salah it could get interesting indeed.0 -
eek said:
And it's possible that tomorrow those same people (the one Cummings was hoping to use to win this election) may come out and vote.Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.
If they do who do you think they will vote for - I suspect it won't be Boris after this campaign..
I remember the halcyon days when higher voter turnout was deemed a good thing, but when the sods wont vote the way you want them to parties are less keen on it.
The good thing about the political implosion of Brexit has been it has shaken up fixed loyalties and tribal voting. It is of course still there and remains hard to shift in places but the gradual decline of fixed votes can only be a positive. Parties must now cast their nets wider and put some effort in to winning a mandate.1 -
SNP voters going Labour as the national picture is Labour v Tory and Unionist tactical voting, if I lived in a Labour v SNP marginal even I would vote LabourCorrectHorseBattery said:
But why are they recovering? I don’t get itStuartDickson said:
I concur. Definite signs of SLab recovery. I think they would have held Kirkcaldy even without the SNP handing it to them on a plate. Now looking nervously at several other seats.Alistair said:I think SLab are seeing a resurgence. They are going to poll 20%+ and that could well dent the SNP just like in 2017.
I am inspecting constituency bets.0 -
Well that is a positive analysis and it is probably a credit to you, as most people have some redeeming features if one is good enough to look for them. I don't think that makes them all people good though. There have been many very evil people who have still loved children and animals. Doesn't stop them being bad or dangerous.Foxy said:
I seem to be a bit unusual, in that I am fairly neutral on Corbyn. I think his economics are bonkers and his obsession with Israel and Palestine repulsive, but he is genuinely compassionate and his humble personal eccentricities with jam and allotment a charming English eccentricity.Nigel_Foremain said:
You make him sound almost appealing, and then one has to remember anti-Semitism, terrorist sympathy and neo-Marxist Venezuelan economics.Foxy said:
Yes, campaigning is the bit of politics that he most enjoys, and indeed advocacy for constituents down on their luck. It is the stuff in Parliament that he finds less interesting, the opposite to most MPs.eek said:
I think he really enjoys campaigning..DecrepiterJohnL said:Jeremy Corbyn: has he just recovered from some illness or is he botoxed up to the gills? He suddenly looks ten years younger, or at least two years back to 2017.
I suppose that I recognise the essential duality of man in him, and that conflict between the devil and the angel.0 -
The MRP puts the LibDems significantly ahead of Labour in Wimbledon. It is based on polling up to yesterday morning, and by its own admission is less likely to pick up the effect of localised campaigns, and hence if anything handicaps the LibDems (whereas Labour's support will be mapped in from lots of other seats by the demographic model).Bournville said:
Inexact science but I do lot of work in that constituency and my numbers put Labour slightly ahead of the Lib Dems in Wimbledon, assuming the current rate of switchers continues today.murali_s said:
Still not sure but firming up to be Lib Dems even though Jo Swinson is truly a terrible leader. Uncle Vince would have been so much better (and that's saying something!)Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
Priority is to get the flip-flopping hapless Stephen Hammond kicked out of Wimbledon. Word on the ground here is that it's still relatively close but a split Labour / LibDem vote would allow Hammond to survive (sadly).
The anti-Tory vote in Wimbledon is clearly LibDem.0 -
Have you kidnapped the real Alanbrooke?Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.eek said:
Was it and did it? The direction of travel was the UK onthe outskirts of the EU whilst retaining a say versus trying to get outside the EU with a grade A mess.Alanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnight and nor will all of them get addressedeek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I mean, I think I’m now voting Labour but I could wobble in the voting booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their scream from 3 years ago hasn't solved any of their issues (although being honest nothing anyone could actually do would resolve their issues)..
As I assume you haven't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
what the vote did was stop the direction of travel and force the politicos to reassess what was on their agenda
Granted it wasn't sold like that but that was the reality even before the referendum.
And it's been 3 years which means there has been enough time for these things to be resolved.
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.
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The policies are more like European or Scandinavian if you ask me. But we don't need to convince voters, they already like the idea of nationalizing utilities.Nigel_Foremain said:
That's the latest spin for the extreme left is it? Replace the hopeless Jeremy and try and convince the voter that Venezuelan socialism would work in the UK with one more heave? You are kidding yourself.rkrkrk said:
He also gets some good press during elections because people like his policies. Whereas between elections his press is relentlessly negative.kle4 said:
Corbyn really needs to ask himself why he comes across so badly between elections. It's not the media, he gets plenty of bad press during an election.
More generally, this isn't limited to Corbyn, it's a common problem for Labour leaders. Blair got around it by wooing the Sun and Murdoch. Miliband just didn't have a big enough policy offer to stop people talking about ridiculous confected controversies like bacon sandwiches.
But Corbyn has shown an alternative route of having a bold policy offer that people like. Combine that boldness with a leader with less baggage and I think/hope we could get a left-wing govt.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/05/19/nationalisation-vs-privatisation-public-view
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Corbyn Labour is still 100 seats behind the Tories after 9 years of Tory rule, Labour can get to 35% under Corbyn but not the more than 40% it needs to winSouthamObserver said:
But if Johnson cannot put him away, who can? A hung Parliament - or even a close Tory win - would strongly suggest that post-Corbyn a far-left Labour Party genuinely has a chance to win. The Tories really need to deliver for the left-behind areas that are likely to lend them their votes.Casino_Royale said:
Yep, making it much more likely he stays and the far Left continues its chokehold on the party.SouthamObserver said:
That result would be seen inside Labour as a huge win for Corbyn.Mexicanpete said:
I could live with that if it meant the back of Corbyn-which it should, but might not.AlastairMeeks said:I reflected overnight on the election result that the country deserves (as opposed to what it will get) and concluded that it would look something like:
Con 310
Lab 251
SNP 45
Lib Dems 20
DUP 8
Sinn Fein 6
Plaid Cymru 4
Alliance 2
SDLP 2
Green 1
Speaker 1
Not that any of the politicians are anywhere near competent enough to deal with such a result.0 -
Yes, and unless you cough up Ill give him back :-)SouthamObserver said:
Have you kidnapped the real Alanbrooke?Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.eek said:
Was it and did it? The direction of travel was the UK onthe outskirts of the EU whilst retaining a say versus trying to get outside the EU with a grade A mess.Alanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnight and nor will all of them get addressedeek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I mean, I think I’m now voting Labour but I could wobble in the voting booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their scream from 3 years ago hasn't solved any of their issues (although being honest nothing anyone could actually do would resolve their issues)..
As I assume you haven't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
what the vote did was stop the direction of travel and force the politicos to reassess what was on their agenda
Granted it wasn't sold like that but that was the reality even before the referendum.
And it's been 3 years which means there has been enough time for these things to be resolved.
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.2 -
It is certainly novel to see a Brexit voted through by a load of pensioners against the wishes of a majority of younger voters described as a generational shift.Alanbrooke said:
Yes, and unless you cough up Ill give him back :-)SouthamObserver said:
Have you kidnapped the real Alanbrooke?Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.eek said:
Was it and did it? The direction of travel was the UK onthe outskirts of the EU whilst retaining a say versus trying to get outside the EU with a grade A mess.Alanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnight and nor will all of them get addressedeek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I me booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their screa't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
what the vote did was stop the direction of travel and force the politicos to reassess what was on their agenda
Granted it wasn't sold like that but that was the reality even before the referendum.
And it's been 3 years which means there has been enough time for these things to be resolved.
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.0 -
The Tories might not be too worried by the MRP from last night because it means their voters won't be complacent. If it had said 68 majority again that might have been a problem for the party.1
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So I take it you’re not happy !nunu2 said:
FfsKentRising said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1204656798571139073?s=19
Boris in a Tory defence.
Johnson and his photo ops are beginning to look pathetic . Topped off by that tragic stunt yesterday .0 -
You get 6 months contributions based JSA anyway regardless of savings provided you have made enough NI contributionsCasino_Royale said:
Another piece of advice I got (and I appreciate not everyone can do this) is to try and build up at least six months of “fuck off money” in your bank account. And never touch it.MarqueeMark said:May I wish you good fortune, Harold. Best thing I ever did was resign from a job I wasn't enjoying, with no idea what I would do next.
This is probably about 12-15k for most people, and it liberates you (from stress too) as you can freely say “fuck off” at any time to a job you hate whilst knowing you can cover all your bills and expenses for up to 6 months whilst you find that other new job.
Fuck off money. It’s great.0 -
Boris is also calling back to Mrs Thatcher, who used that verse to condemn Conservative Grandees.Luckyguy1983 said:
Me too. And the Byrds song. Suggests a rather philosophical angle from Boris.DavidL said:
I am no longer religious but I love Ecclesiastes ch 3, for everything there is a season. I find it genuinely profound. https://www.biblehub.com/bsb/ecclesiastes/3.htmLuckyguy1983 said:
It is from Ecclesiastes. Vanity, Vanity, all is Vanity. It's a beautiful passage.Fysics_Teacher said:
All is vanity seems to fit quite well for Boris.AlastairMeeks said:
Private Eye couldn’t better it.Fysics_Teacher said:
Are you sure that’s not from Private Eye?AlastairMeeks said:
Its certainly the best book in the Old Testament, arguably the best in the whole bible.
Albeit not a very accessible answer. 0 -
The Tories are very lucky this week didn’t happen last week.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-boris-johnson-hides-fridge-21070803
1 -
Maybe he's going to sweep through Shipley and Keighley, then on into Lancashire?eek said:
I'm struggling to see what seat (even those nearby) this is a campaign stop for. Any ideas or are is the Tory high command far more scared than their supporters on here are.SandyRentool said:Too close for comfort - Bozo in Guiseley this morning turning the milk sour.
0 -
Maybe but are you still confident IDS will retain his seat and that it will not return a hung parliamentHYUFD said:
Corbyn Labour is still 100 seats behind the Tories after 9 years of Tory rule, Labour can get to 35% under Corbyn but not the more than 40% it needs to winSouthamObserver said:
But if Johnson cannot put him away, who can? A hung Parliament - or even a close Tory win - would strongly suggest that post-Corbyn a far-left Labour Party genuinely has a chance to win. The Tories really need to deliver for the left-behind areas that are likely to lend them their votes.Casino_Royale said:
Yep, making it much more likely he stays and the far Left continues its chokehold on the party.SouthamObserver said:
That result would be seen inside Labour as a huge win for Corbyn.Mexicanpete said:
I could live with that if it meant the back of Corbyn-which it should, but might not.AlastairMeeks said:I reflected overnight on the election result that the country deserves (as opposed to what it will get) and concluded that it would look something like:
Con 310
Lab 251
SNP 45
Lib Dems 20
DUP 8
Sinn Fein 6
Plaid Cymru 4
Alliance 2
SDLP 2
Green 1
Speaker 1
Not that any of the politicians are anywhere near competent enough to deal with such a result.
Also the chance of no deal in january must have risen0 -
What are Johnson's redeeming features?Nigel_Foremain said:
Well that is a positive analysis and it is probably a credit to you, as most people have some redeeming features if one is good enough to look for them. I don't think that makes them all people good though. There have been many very evil people who have still loved children and animals. Doesn't stop them being bad or dangerous.Foxy said:
I seem to be a bit unusual, in that I am fairly neutral on Corbyn. I think his economics are bonkers and his obsession with Israel and Palestine repulsive, but he is genuinely compassionate and his humble personal eccentricities with jam and allotment a charming English eccentricity.Nigel_Foremain said:
You make him sound almost appealing, and then one has to remember anti-Semitism, terrorist sympathy and neo-Marxist Venezuelan economics.Foxy said:
Yes, campaigning is the bit of politics that he most enjoys, and indeed advocacy for constituents down on their luck. It is the stuff in Parliament that he finds less interesting, the opposite to most MPs.eek said:
I think he really enjoys campaigning..DecrepiterJohnL said:Jeremy Corbyn: has he just recovered from some illness or is he botoxed up to the gills? He suddenly looks ten years younger, or at least two years back to 2017.
I suppose that I recognise the essential duality of man in him, and that conflict between the devil and the angel.0 -
Er, that’s not the song’s title, it’s its opening two lines.Fysics_Teacher said:Speaking of vanity and quotations of a sort, my favourite song title (not the same as the title of my favourite song) is “You’re so vain, you probably think this song is about you”.
The song is called You’re So Vain.0 -
That’s not really much for people with a family and bills to payHYUFD said:
You get 6 months contributions based JSA anyway regardless of savings provided you have made enough NI contributionsCasino_Royale said:
Another piece of advice I got (and I appreciate not everyone can do this) is to try and build up at least six months of “fuck off money” in your bank account. And never touch it.MarqueeMark said:May I wish you good fortune, Harold. Best thing I ever did was resign from a job I wasn't enjoying, with no idea what I would do next.
This is probably about 12-15k for most people, and it liberates you (from stress too) as you can freely say “fuck off” at any time to a job you hate whilst knowing you can cover all your bills and expenses for up to 6 months whilst you find that other new job.
Fuck off money. It’s great.0 -
WHY WAS HE IN PUDSEY?!?!!? Wtf?! Are they scared they won't even get a majority?eek said:
And it's possible that tomorrow those same people (the one Cummings was hoping to use to win this election) may come out and vote.Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.
If they do who do you think they will vote for - I suspect it won't be Boris after this campaign..0 -
Actually driving through the wall was shared across our social media with lots of laughsnico67 said:
So I take it you’re not happy !nunu2 said:
FfsKentRising said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1204656798571139073?s=19
Boris in a Tory defence.
Johnson and his photo ops are beginning to look pathetic . Topped off by that tragic stunt yesterday .0 -
IDS is still narrowly ahead with Yougov MRP and it will be Tory gains in Labour Leave seats that gives the Tories a majority.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but are you still confident IDS will retain his seat and that it will not return a hung parliamentHYUFD said:
Corbyn Labour is still 100 seats behind the Tories after 9 years of Tory rule, Labour can get to 35% under Corbyn but not the more than 40% it needs to winSouthamObserver said:
But if Johnson cannot put him away, who can? A hung Parliament - or even a close Tory win - would strongly suggest that post-Corbyn a far-left Labour Party genuinely has a chance to win. The Tories really need to deliver for the left-behind areas that are likely to lend them their votes.Casino_Royale said:
Yep, making it much more likely he stays and the far Left continues its chokehold on the party.SouthamObserver said:
That result would be seen inside Labour as a huge win for Corbyn.Mexicanpete said:
I could live with that if it meant the back of Corbyn-which it should, but might not.AlastairMeeks said:I reflected overnight on the election result that the country deserves (as opposed to what it will get) and concluded that it would look something like:
Con 310
Lab 251
SNP 45
Lib Dems 20
DUP 8
Sinn Fein 6
Plaid Cymru 4
Alliance 2
SDLP 2
Green 1
Speaker 1
Not that any of the politicians are anywhere near competent enough to deal with such a result.
Also the chance of no deal in january must have risen
Of 32 projected Tory gains with last night's Yougov model only 1, Lanark and Hamilton East, is a seat that voted Remain and only 2, Dagenham and Rainham and Eastbourne, are in London or the South.
Unless the DUP (and the BXP if they get an MP) hold the balance of power again it will not be No Deal, if the Tories get a majority the Boris Deal will pass, if Labour and the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and LDs get a majority it will be EUref20 -
The business case for Crossrail is pretty sound. The mission statement is “keeping London moving” and you can see why that’s the case at rush hour, with the extensive queues and closures at Bank, Holborn, Victoria, Canary Wharf and Tottenham Court Road. The tube is at capacity and it’s becoming a choke on growth.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Crossrail is a project of national importance and like 90% of the country I don't even understand exactly what it is meant to do except make travelling around London easier. What is the problem ? I ask because by God we need to know for HS2, HS 3/4 and the whole Northern Powerhouse. Do you think the equivalent of your concerns are even being considered re the reassessment of HS2 ?Casino_Royale said:Charles said:
That means it’s either (a) fixed; or (b) unfixableCasino_Royale said:On resigning club, I’ve already ‘resigned’ from Crossrail (2 weeks ago, as it happens) and am leaving that client after nearly 5.5 years. I may do a day or so a week there next year, but I finish there full time at Christmas.
I’m working on a new client for 2020, which may amuse some of you when I reveal it but I can’t discuss it yet.
We should be told!
I’ve just had enough.
I wouldn’t expect it to open before Christmas 2021.
Crossrail will link the nation’s main airport with the West End (it’s primary retail and tourist zone) with the City and Canary Wharf (it’s primary business and financial districts). It will also make it much easier for commuters in the Thames Valley and Essex to access all those areas.
The net effect is to allow London to retain its status as a global and European hub, attracting more inward investment, greatly boosting jobs and tax revenue. This will help the Exchequer and the funding of public services.
Unfortunately, the political optics are poor as it looks like gold-plating London, but the RoR is at least 3:1.
HS2 is a bit more speculative (and nowhere near as well-run as Crossrail yet) but is a strategic piece of infrastructure aimed at changing the economic geography of the country. The West and East coast main lines are also approaching capacity and it takes an age to get to places like Leeds, and you can’t always find a seat.
So basically, Crossrail taps into and retains London as a global hub, together with Heathrow expansion, and HS2 taps in the rest of the country into that too and will act as a facilitator for further regional investment projects in the North.0 -
Yes it is good news for us getting supporters to Chingford to knock upAndy_JS said:The Tories might not be too worried by the MRP from last night because it means their voters won't be complacent. If it had said 68 majority again that might have been a problem for the party.
0 -
I don’t know if that’s a barb or a compliment but I’m not going near HS2 with how it’s run at the moment.IanB2 said:
Given how far behind and over budget Crossrail is, you're surely just the person for HS2.Casino_Royale said:On resigning club, I’ve already ‘resigned’ from Crossrail (2 weeks ago, as it happens) and am leaving that client after nearly 5.5 years. I may do a day or so a week there next year, but I finish there full time at Christmas.
I’m working on a new client for 2020, which may amuse some of you when I reveal it but I can’t discuss it yet.
I can’t work for a senior leadership team I don’t respect.0 -
Yes, but do folk really want a clown as PM, or something more substantial?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually driving through the wall was shared across our social media with lots of laughsnico67 said:
So I take it you’re not happy !nunu2 said:
FfsKentRising said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1204656798571139073?s=19
Boris in a Tory defence.
Johnson and his photo ops are beginning to look pathetic . Topped off by that tragic stunt yesterday .
He just hid in a fridge to avoid an interview by breakfast TV.1 -
I largely agree with that assessment. Similarly, I am fairly neutral on Brexit, which is a mixture of devils and angels.Foxy said:
I seem to be a bit unusual, in that I am fairly neutral on Corbyn. I think his economics are bonkers and his obsession with Israel and Palestine repulsive, but he is genuinely compassionate and his humble personal eccentricities with jam and allotment a charming English eccentricity.
I suppose that I recognise the essential duality of man in him, and that conflict between the devil and the angel.
In fact, I am happy with any outcome that doesn't deliver a hung Parliament, in which vacuous Meeksian centrists argue for a continuation of failed policies.
Many have suffered, and don't want to return to the status quo, which is all that the centrists are offering.
Extremists and populists simply take advantage of the resentment and sense of powerlessness that many now feel. And who created this malaise? Our centrist friends.0 -
If we see a 6 pointer or even a 5 pointer or better today, it’s in the bag0
-
That was my question earlier - I can't see any seat in play in that area?nunu2 said:
WHY WAS HE IN PUDSEY?!?!!? Wtf?! Are they scared they won't even get a majority?eek said:
And it's possible that tomorrow those same people (the one Cummings was hoping to use to win this election) may come out and vote.Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.
If they do who do you think they will vote for - I suspect it won't be Boris after this campaign..
South of Leeds, yes - North (yes, once you leave Yorkshire) but Pudsey?0 -
OT anyone else having trouble logging on to PB.com? I am having to use Vanilla as PB.com does not seem to react to me logging on.
I'd love to get back to my preferred access before tomorrow night's fun and games.
(Macbook Air, Safari 13.0.4, OSX High Sierra)0 -
Probably because in 2017 the Tories thought they were going to win Pudsey easily since they were defending a 4,500 vote majority and in the event that was reduced to just 331.nunu2 said:
WHY WAS HE IN PUDSEY?!?!!? Wtf?! Are they scared they won't even get a majority?eek said:
And it's possible that tomorrow those same people (the one Cummings was hoping to use to win this election) may come out and vote.Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.
If they do who do you think they will vote for - I suspect it won't be Boris after this campaign..0 -
The most convincing argument for a Tory landslide is the sudden pb consensus that it won't happen2
-
I've been saying the tory campaign has been lacking for weeks now. Even now they are hiding. Literally Boris was hiding in a fridge.nico67 said:
So I take it you’re not happy !nunu2 said:
FfsKentRising said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1204656798571139073?s=19
Boris in a Tory defence.
Johnson and his photo ops are beginning to look pathetic . Topped off by that tragic stunt yesterday .1 -
Foot would have probably beaten himDavidL said:
Agreed. Its self indulgence of the worst kind.Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alot) about the economic drawbacks of Brexit, which worst case scenario is predicted to make us 'grow less', can vote to put Corbyn in power, is beyond me. Nothing to do with antisemitism, which I deplore, it's what they have confirmed they would do to the economy. It's not even like it's in any way hidden beneath a mask of bland Blairism. Nobody could vote for that unless out of revenge on the country, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I mean, I think I’m now voting Labour but I could wobble in the voting booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
Its worth considering how Boris would have done against Blair though. I think he would have been annihilated.0 -
Probably they do not want either on offer but it has to be one or the otherFoxy said:
Yes, but do folk really want a clown as PM, or something more substantial?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Actually driving through the wall was shared across our social media with lots of laughsnico67 said:
So I take it you’re not happy !nunu2 said:
FfsKentRising said:https://twitter.com/matt_dathan/status/1204656798571139073?s=19
Boris in a Tory defence.
Johnson and his photo ops are beginning to look pathetic . Topped off by that tragic stunt yesterday .
He just hid in a fridge to avoid an interview by breakfast TV.0 -
Yes - last night's MRP was obviously the best news for the Conservatives that's happened this millennium (at least).HYUFD said:
Yes it is good news for us getting supporters to Chingford to knock upAndy_JS said:The Tories might not be too worried by the MRP from last night because it means their voters won't be complacent. If it had said 68 majority again that might have been a problem for the party.
But apart from PB Tories, I'm sure the rest of us will be on the lookout for straws in the wind before tomorrow.0 -
IanB2 said:
The young didn't vote much so it cant be said to be against there wishes otherwise they would have got off their arses and not left the voting to their mums and dadsAlanbrooke said:
It is certainly novel to see a Brexit voted through by a load of pensioners against the wishes of a majority of younger voters described as a generational shift.SouthamObserver said:
Yes, and unless you cough up Ill give him back :-)Alanbrooke said:
Have you kidnapped the real Alanbrooke?eek said:
3 years means nothing thAlanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnig time for these things to be resolved.eek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I me booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their screa't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.
As for the penisioner bit, one day youll be old too, sensible societies value wisdom0 -
All you can conclude is that where CCHQ believes (and they might be wrong as they were in 2017, or right as they were in 2015) the battleground is.nunu2 said:
WHY WAS HE IN PUDSEY?!?!!? Wtf?! Are they scared they won't even get a majority?eek said:
And it's possible that tomorrow those same people (the one Cummings was hoping to use to win this election) may come out and vote.Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.
If they do who do you think they will vote for - I suspect it won't be Boris after this campaign..
They might think they already have enough attack seats in the bag, and the main threat is from Labour/LD on the defensive seats.
Or, more worryingly, that holding onto what they’ve got is the best they can do now and keep their fingers crossed some target seats just naturally fall to them.0 -
There was that thing about model buses, wasn't there?Andy_JS said:
What are Johnson's redeeming features?Nigel_Foremain said:
Well that is a positive analysis and it is probably a credit to you, as most people have some redeeming features if one is good enough to look for them. I don't think that makes them all people good though. There have been many very evil people who have still loved children and animals. Doesn't stop them being bad or dangerous.Foxy said:
I seem to be a bit unusual, in that I am fairly neutral on Corbyn. I think his economics are bonkers and his obsession with Israel and Palestine repulsive, but he is genuinely compassionate and his humble personal eccentricities with jam and allotment a charming English eccentricity.Nigel_Foremain said:
You make him sound almost appealing, and then one has to remember anti-Semitism, terrorist sympathy and neo-Marxist Venezuelan economics.Foxy said:
Yes, campaigning is the bit of politics that he most enjoys, and indeed advocacy for constituents down on their luck. It is the stuff in Parliament that he finds less interesting, the opposite to most MPs.eek said:
I think he really enjoys campaigning..DecrepiterJohnL said:Jeremy Corbyn: has he just recovered from some illness or is he botoxed up to the gills? He suddenly looks ten years younger, or at least two years back to 2017.
I suppose that I recognise the essential duality of man in him, and that conflict between the devil and the angel.0 -
what consensus?Stereotomy said:The most convincing argument for a Tory landslide is the sudden pb consensus that it won't happen
0 -
First two lines of the chorus I think. The fist two lines are:Anabobazina said:
Er, that’s not the song’s title, it’s its opening two lines.Fysics_Teacher said:Speaking of vanity and quotations of a sort, my favourite song title (not the same as the title of my favourite song) is “You’re so vain, you probably think this song is about you”.
The song is called You’re So Vain.
Son of a gun
You walked into the party like you were walking onto a yacht.0 -
The mood swings on PB are one of its many joys
1 -
Usual vanity London project , sucking all the investrment from the rest of the country so Londoners get it a bit easier. More over budget than is spent on the rest of the UK.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Crossrail is a project of national importance and like 90% of the country I don't even understand exactly what it is meant to do except make travelling around London easier. What is the problem ? I ask because by God we need to know for HS2, HS 3/4 and the whole Northern Powerhouse. Do you think the equivalent of your concerns are even being considered re the reassessment of HS2 ?Casino_Royale said:Charles said:
That means it’s either (a) fixed; or (b) unfixableCasino_Royale said:On resigning club, I’ve already ‘resigned’ from Crossrail (2 weeks ago, as it happens) and am leaving that client after nearly 5.5 years. I may do a day or so a week there next year, but I finish there full time at Christmas.
I’m working on a new client for 2020, which may amuse some of you when I reveal it but I can’t discuss it yet.
We should be told!
I’ve just had enough.
I wouldn’t expect it to open before Christmas 2021.1 -
Its a simple fact that Brexit was voted through mostly by the old. My issue was with your description.Alanbrooke said:
The young didn't vote much so it cant be said to be against there wishes otherwise they would have got off their arses and not left the voting to their mums and dadsIanB2 said:
It is certainly novel to see a Brexit voted through by a load of pensioners against the wishes of a majority of younger voters described as a generational shift.Alanbrooke said:
Yes, and unless you cough up Ill give him back :-)SouthamObserver said:Alanbrooke said:
Have you kidnapped the real Alanbrooke?eek said:
3 years means nothing thAlanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnig time for these things to be resolved.eek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I me booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their screa't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.
As for the penisioner bit, one day youll be old too, sensible societies value wisdom0 -
I was ready aware of your final paragraph but a deadlocked HOC has a January deadline to deal withHYUFD said:
IDS is still narrowly ahead with Yougov MRP and it will be Tory gains in Labour Leave seats that gives the Tories a majority.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but are you still confident IDS will retain his seat and that it will not return a hung parliamentHYUFD said:
Corbyn Labour is still 100 seats behind the Tories after 9 years of Tory rule, Labour can get to 35% under Corbyn but not the more than 40% it needs to winSouthamObserver said:
But if Johnson cannot put him away, who can? A hung Parliament - or even a close Tory win - would strongly suggest that post-Corbyn a far-left Labour Party genuinely has a chance to win. The Tories really need to deliver for the left-behind areas that are likely to lend them their votes.Casino_Royale said:
Yep, making it much more likely he stays and the far Left continues its chokehold on the party.SouthamObserver said:
That result would be seen inside Labour as a huge win for Corbyn.Mexicanpete said:
I could live with that if it meant the back of Corbyn-which it should, but might not.AlastairMeeks said:I reflected overnight on the election result that the country deserves (as opposed to what it will get) and concluded that it would look something like:
Con 310
Lab 251
SNP 45
Lib Dems 20
DUP 8
Sinn Fein 6
Plaid Cymru 4
Alliance 2
SDLP 2
Green 1
Speaker 1
Not that any of the politicians are anywhere near competent enough to deal with such a result.
Also the chance of no deal in january must have risen
Of 32 projected Tory gains with last night's Yougov model only 1, Lanark and Hamilton East, is a seat that voted Remain and only 2, Dagenham and Rainham and Eastbourne, are in London or the South.
Unless the DUP (and the BXP if they get an MP) hold the balance of power again it will not be No Deal, if the Tories get a majority the Boris Deal will pass, if Labour and the SNP, Plaid, the Greens and LDs get a majority it will be EUref20 -
It being a HP?CorrectHorseBattery said:If we see a 6 pointer or even a 5 pointer or better today, it’s in the bag
0 -
How many polls due out today, and when ?0
-
O.k PB. Competition time. Which will have the higher tory share after the election?
Wakefield or Pudsey?0 -
What could possibly cause it , they get crappier by the day, bereft of leadership and policies. You could only vote for them if you had had a lobotomy.Alistair said:I think SLab are seeing a resurgence. They are going to poll 20%+ and that could well dent the SNP just like in 2017.
I am inspecting constituency bets.0 -
Chingford is so close on the MRP that it's going to be the destination of choice for a big slice of the London Labour Party.HYUFD said:
Yes it is good news for us getting supporters to Chingford to knock upAndy_JS said:The Tories might not be too worried by the MRP from last night because it means their voters won't be complacent. If it had said 68 majority again that might have been a problem for the party.
0 -
It does very much look like that.malcolmg said:
Usual vanity London project , sucking all the investrment from the rest of the country so Londoners get it a bit easier. More over budget than is spent on the rest of the UK.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Crossrail is a project of national importance and like 90% of the country I don't even understand exactly what it is meant to do except make travelling around London easier. What is the problem ? I ask because by God we need to know for HS2, HS 3/4 and the whole Northern Powerhouse. Do you think the equivalent of your concerns are even being considered re the reassessment of HS2 ?Casino_Royale said:Charles said:
That means it’s either (a) fixed; or (b) unfixableCasino_Royale said:On resigning club, I’ve already ‘resigned’ from Crossrail (2 weeks ago, as it happens) and am leaving that client after nearly 5.5 years. I may do a day or so a week there next year, but I finish there full time at Christmas.
I’m working on a new client for 2020, which may amuse some of you when I reveal it but I can’t discuss it yet.
We should be told!
I’ve just had enough.
I wouldn’t expect it to open before Christmas 2021.0 -
I'm sure ITV will happily replay it multiple times today.SouthamObserver said:The Tories are very lucky this week didn’t happen last week.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-boris-johnson-hides-fridge-210708031 -
I think they could now be value in East Lothian.StuartDickson said:
I concur. Definite signs of SLab recovery. I think they would have held Kirkcaldy even without the SNP handing it to them on a plate. Now looking nervously at several other seats.Alistair said:I think SLab are seeing a resurgence. They are going to poll 20%+ and that could well dent the SNP just like in 2017.
I am inspecting constituency bets.0 -
Serious (and perhaps quite important) question - the MRP results released last night showed a rather pronounced downward trend in the projected number of Tory seats over the last fortnight, but essentially no trend at all in the projected Tory percentage lead.
Does anyone understand - or has YouGov made any comment on - how these two findings can be reconciled?0 -
Nothing is in the bag no matter what the polls say todayCorrectHorseBattery said:If we see a 6 pointer or even a 5 pointer or better today, it’s in the bag
Upto 25% of the vote will already be in, and this election is impossible to call and may well remain so until the early hours of friday morning1 -
generational shifts happen. 1945 and Attlee, 1979 and Thatcher 1997 and Blair. Zeitgeist if you prefer but it simply means the old consensus has had itrs day.IanB2 said:
Its a simple fact that Brexit was voted through mostly by the old. My issue was with your description.Alanbrooke said:
The young didn't vote much so it cant be said to be against there wishes otherwise they would have got off their arses and not left the voting to their mums and dadsIanB2 said:
It is certainly novel to see a Brexit voted through by a load of pensioners against the wishes of a majority of younger voters described as a generational shift.Alanbrooke said:
Yes, and unless you cough up Ill give him back :-)SouthamObserver said:Alanbrooke said:
Have you kidnapped the real Alanbrooke?eek said:
3 years means nothing thAlanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnig time for these things to be resolved.eek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I me booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their screa't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.
As for the penisioner bit, one day youll be old too, sensible societies value wisdom0 -
I think the MRP is wrong. The Lib Dem vote in Wimbledon is mostly coming from 2017 Labour voters and what I am seeing is a decent chunk of those 2017 Lab voters returning - primarily over the last two or three days. Although the Lib Dems are flooding the constituency with literature, they don't have the historic VIs for GOTV that Labour does, and Labour has consistently had more canvassers in Wimbledon than the Conservatives and Lib Dems combined (the local candidate is a Momentum chair so has had a lot of resources funneled to her). Based on the data I have I'd say it's neck and neck right now with Labour pulling slightly ahead.IanB2 said:
The MRP puts the LibDems significantly ahead of Labour in Wimbledon. It is based on polling up to yesterday morning, and by its own admission is less likely to pick up the effect of localised campaigns, and hence if anything handicaps the LibDems (whereas Labour's support will be mapped in from lots of other seats by the demographic model).Bournville said:
Inexact science but I do lot of work in that constituency and my numbers put Labour slightly ahead of the Lib Dems in Wimbledon, assuming the current rate of switchers continues today.murali_s said:
Still not sure but firming up to be Lib Dems even though Jo Swinson is truly a terrible leader. Uncle Vince would have been so much better (and that's saying something!)Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
Priority is to get the flip-flopping hapless Stephen Hammond kicked out of Wimbledon. Word on the ground here is that it's still relatively close but a split Labour / LibDem vote would allow Hammond to survive (sadly).
The anti-Tory vote in Wimbledon is clearly LibDem.0 -
Yes. Claiming to be the party of radical reform and referenda etc., and switching to be a reactionary one has slightly undermined their USP. Likewise Labour, for that matter. If Corbyn had offered a free vote, while campaigning personally for Leave, what a position he would be in...argyllrs said:Does anyone think that if the Lib Dems had respected the referendum and we had left the EU, that they would be experiencing a resurgence and massively eating into Labour (and some Con) seats. Instead they could be back down to single figures if they don't win big in home counties/Surrey.
0 -
No it isn’t.Benpointer said:
It does very much look like that.malcolmg said:
Usual vanity London project , sucking all the investrment from the rest of the country so Londoners get it a bit easier. More over budget than is spent on the rest of the UK.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Crossrail is a project of national importance and like 90% of the country I don't even understand exactly what it is meant to do except make travelling around London easier. What is the problem ? I ask because by God we need to know for HS2, HS 3/4 and the whole Northern Powerhouse. Do you think the equivalent of your concerns are even being considered re the reassessment of HS2 ?Casino_Royale said:Charles said:
That means it’s either (a) fixed; or (b) unfixableCasino_Royale said:On resigning club, I’ve already ‘resigned’ from Crossrail (2 weeks ago, as it happens) and am leaving that client after nearly 5.5 years. I may do a day or so a week there next year, but I finish there full time at Christmas.
I’m working on a new client for 2020, which may amuse some of you when I reveal it but I can’t discuss it yet.
We should be told!
I’ve just had enough.
I wouldn’t expect it to open before Christmas 2021.
All of that is completely wrong.0 -
Unless the Exit Poll is close, I think we'll know soon after 10pm tomorrow.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Nothing is in the bag no matter what the polls say todayCorrectHorseBattery said:If we see a 6 pointer or even a 5 pointer or better today, it’s in the bag
Upto 25% of the vote will already be in, and this election is impossible to call and may well remain so until the early hours of friday morning0 -
Every marginal in near London is going to have more momentum volunteers than residents, regardless of the MRP. They've already been sending volunteers home from canvassing sessions because they can't handle the numbersIanB2 said:
Chingford is so close on the MRP that it's going to be the destination of choice for a big slice of the London Labour Party.HYUFD said:
Yes it is good news for us getting supporters to Chingford to knock upAndy_JS said:The Tories might not be too worried by the MRP from last night because it means their voters won't be complacent. If it had said 68 majority again that might have been a problem for the party.
0 -
Nope it was voted through by a set of people who don't usually vote.IanB2 said:
Its a simple fact that Brexit was voted through mostly by the old. My issue was with your description.Alanbrooke said:
The young didn't vote much so it cant be said to be against there wishes otherwise they would have got off their arses and not left the voting to their mums and dadsIanB2 said:
It is certainly novel to see a Brexit voted through by a load of pensioners against the wishes of a majority of younger voters described as a generational shift.Alanbrooke said:
Yes, and unless you cough up Ill give him back :-)SouthamObserver said:Alanbrooke said:
Have you kidnapped the real Alanbrooke?eek said:
3 years means nothing thAlanbrooke said:
the issues wont get solved overnig time for these things to be resolved.eek said:
Yes because the have not's aren't doing that well so see little point with the country carrying on as it was.Nigelb said:
Both are f*** the country votes.eek said:
However, it could be exactly what Corbyn needs to win votes - remember for a lot of people Brexit was a f*** you vote and you've just said a vote for Corbyn is the same...Luckyguy1983 said:
How anyone who has complained (alo, which is sad.Mexicanpete said:
What? With a vote magnet like Boris as the alternative.Gallowgate said:
I me booth.Andy_JS said:Is anyone still undecided as to who to vote for tomorrow?
And their screa't read the article can I refer you to https://unherd.com/2019/11/stoke-the-city-that-britain-forgot/ which I linked to here 3 weeks back
Cummings was also hoping that his campaign of Get Brexit done would win the Tories a lot votes from people that don't usually vote (and so don't show up on in polls). What happens if they have successfully get those people out voting and they go for the f*** the establishment Corbyn option.
As for the penisioner bit, one day youll be old too, sensible societies value wisdom
2015 - 66.1%
Referendum - 72%
2017 - 69%
That difference in vote between 2015 and the referendum is greater than the winning percentage.0 -
Was ever thus Malcmalcolmg said:
Usual vanity London project , sucking all the investrment from the rest of the country so Londoners get it a bit easier. More over budget than is spent on the rest of the UK.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Crossrail is a project of national importance and like 90% of the country I don't even understand exactly what it is meant to do except make travelling around London easier. What is the problem ? I ask because by God we need to know for HS2, HS 3/4 and the whole Northern Powerhouse. Do you think the equivalent of your concerns are even being considered re the reassessment of HS2 ?Casino_Royale said:Charles said:
That means it’s either (a) fixed; or (b) unfixableCasino_Royale said:On resigning club, I’ve already ‘resigned’ from Crossrail (2 weeks ago, as it happens) and am leaving that client after nearly 5.5 years. I may do a day or so a week there next year, but I finish there full time at Christmas.
I’m working on a new client for 2020, which may amuse some of you when I reveal it but I can’t discuss it yet.
We should be told!
I’ve just had enough.
I wouldn’t expect it to open before Christmas 2021.0 -
Whereas, they'd probably be better off playing defence in London.IanB2 said:
Chingford is so close on the MRP that it's going to be the destination of choice for a big slice of the London Labour Party.HYUFD said:
Yes it is good news for us getting supporters to Chingford to knock upAndy_JS said:The Tories might not be too worried by the MRP from last night because it means their voters won't be complacent. If it had said 68 majority again that might have been a problem for the party.
0 -
Joined September 2019? Who is funding them on the quiet?Casino_Royale said:0 -
One interesting epiphany about human nature I’ve had in the last 2-3 years is how total ignorance of the subject matter, or the facts, doesn’t stop people having very strong opinions on a subject, and telling you so as if it’s the truth.
People don’t really make decisions on logic or reason or on how informed they are, but by how something makes them feel.
As well as my betting strategy this has informed my decision-making in aspects of my professional life recently and I’ve been astonished at the results.0 -
I am not saying it's right - I am just saying that's how it looks (from Dorset in my case).Casino_Royale said:
No it isn’t.Benpointer said:
It does very much look like that.malcolmg said:
Usual vanity London project , sucking all the investrment from the rest of the country so Londoners get it a bit easier. More over budget than is spent on the rest of the UK.A_View_From_Cumbria5 said:
Crossrail is a project of national importance and like 90% of the country I don't even understand exactly what it is meant to do except make travelling around London easier. What is the problem ? I ask because by God we need to know for HS2, HS 3/4 and the whole Northern Powerhouse. Do you think the equivalent of your concerns are even being considered re the reassessment of HS2 ?Casino_Royale said:Charles said:
That means it’s either (a) fixed; or (b) unfixableCasino_Royale said:On resigning club, I’ve already ‘resigned’ from Crossrail (2 weeks ago, as it happens) and am leaving that client after nearly 5.5 years. I may do a day or so a week there next year, but I finish there full time at Christmas.
I’m working on a new client for 2020, which may amuse some of you when I reveal it but I can’t discuss it yet.
We should be told!
I’ve just had enough.
I wouldn’t expect it to open before Christmas 2021.
All of that is completely wrong.0 -
How many Labour seats are at risk in London north of the river? Dagenham, that's probably it.Sean_F said:
Whereas, they'd probably be better off playing defence in London.IanB2 said:
Chingford is so close on the MRP that it's going to be the destination of choice for a big slice of the London Labour Party.HYUFD said:
Yes it is good news for us getting supporters to Chingford to knock upAndy_JS said:The Tories might not be too worried by the MRP from last night because it means their voters won't be complacent. If it had said 68 majority again that might have been a problem for the party.
0 -
Of course you'd visit a hyper-marginal constituency.Andy_JS said:
Probably because in 2017 the Tories thought they were going to win Pudsey easily since they were defending a 4,500 vote majority and in the event that was reduced to just 331.nunu2 said:
WHY WAS HE IN PUDSEY?!?!!? Wtf?! Are they scared they won't even get a majority?eek said:
And it's possible that tomorrow those same people (the one Cummings was hoping to use to win this election) may come out and vote.Alanbrooke said:
3 years means nothing this is a generational shift, we.re due one. All we are seeing is the death throes of the old order and as yet there new one hasn't emerged. The vote, as pointed out , was not just about the EU. The EU - unfairly - took the rap for a general discontent which politicans had been ignoring. Most of the discontent is on home grown issues which our politicans could have addressed but didn't. The EU ref was used as a chance to kick them in the nadgers to get their attention. It certainly did that.
If they do who do you think they will vote for - I suspect it won't be Boris after this campaign..0 -
Yepp. sLab 11/4 to Hold East Lothian looks like value. Should perhaps be 3/2.Alistair said:
I think they could now be value in East Lothian.StuartDickson said:
I concur. Definite signs of SLab recovery. I think they would have held Kirkcaldy even without the SNP handing it to them on a plate. Now looking nervously at several other seats.Alistair said:I think SLab are seeing a resurgence. They are going to poll 20%+ and that could well dent the SNP just like in 2017.
I am inspecting constituency bets.0
