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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    Omnium said:

    humbugger said:

    We are not leaving the EU at all unless we have a GE or the EU tells this Parliament no more extensions. There's no point progressing the WAB in this Parliament as MPs will always find some reason, device or tactic to delay implementation.
    We could easily leave the EU if the government were brave enough to put their deal to the people in a referendum... I suspect they would win easily.
    We left. We voted to leave. We haven't found it so easy to actually leave.

    Let's just agree we left.
    Good scheme.

    Maybe we could just mint some commemorative 50p coins and put up a few ads saying "Well done on getting ready for Brexit - it's gone really smoothly" to complete the feeling that we've left?

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,958
    edited October 2019
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    In what way are the LibDems the "biggest" "strongest" Remain party? Show workings. Use both sides of the paper......
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Very pleased with himself
  • Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.

    There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.

    Strategic geniuses, these remainers.

    Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
    Why does no one on either side of the argument get the fact that nothing done now can define what “type “ of Brexit we get? All that can be done is to insert something into the PD and into our withdrawal act. The former means nothing and the latter can be overwritten by whatever Gvt is in power in 4-5 years as we close in on a trade deal.
    Well, that is a risk, admittedly.

    But then, if the Tories really are that confident that a Customs Union commitment can be cancelled easily (because an election will definitely get triggered somehow, the Tories will definitely win a landslide, Parliament will then definitely repeal the CU law) then doesn't that beg the question why the Tories are so desperate that the Customs Union DOESN'T get put into the current Withdrawal Bill?
    Well, quite. If I was Boris I wouldn’t give a shit. Even if we have no election until 2022 there will be no deal agreed before then, so any CU amendment is meaningless. The view of the party to with the next election is what matters.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Scott_P said:
    The Guardian lol - they usually love wild spending
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labour gets a say on an election one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    Hmm yes. But it has to get through the Lords. Could be tricky.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274

    GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    And the House of Lords?
    Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.

    The Lords will acquiesce.
    If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP

    They kneecapped him. Double tap...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,059
    Floater said:

    Noo said:

    Strategic geniuses, these remainers.

    Yet here we are, still in the EU..
    win the battle lose the war
    Yes. The Referendum being the battle in this case.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    edited October 2019

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    And yet Boris's lead grows bigger and bigger... :)
    So why is he not calling for an election? Corbyn has said he will support one when the extension is in place, which should be by next week, so what's Johnson waiting for?
    We don't know for sure what extension the EU are offering yet?

    I would suspect the government know it's going to be to 31st January but the government has got to give the EU the courtesy of replying to the Surrender letter.

    As soon as that reply is in (hopefully will be this week) I'm sure they'll push on with getting a general election together.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    In what way are the LibDems the "biggest" Remain party? Show workings. Use both sides of the paper......
    if you accept
    - Labour isn't a remain party
    - Counting size by number of votes at the last election or by current polling numbers
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like the public want to remain in the EU with a mahoosive Tory majority

    That’s quite an indictment of Corbyn.
    who would have thought turning us into Venezuela including the anti semitism wasn't a vote winner
    He probably saw how successful racism has been for Farage and his Leave.EU cronies and decided to tap into that.
    If you want to reduce labours vote share to that of UKIP knock yourself out.

    To be fair you certainly giving it a go - against a paralysed government you are HOW far behind lol

    How shit must Labour be
  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    Scott_P said:
    Dear EU diplomats

    It is unlikely that there is a brexit deal that can command Government support and gain enough opposition support in a hung parliament. Therefore the only way a deal does get through is through an election.

    Unless you want all this to come back at an EU summit every 3 months and prevent the EU from functioning properly
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.

    There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.

    Strategic geniuses, these remainers.

    Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
    Why does no one on either side of the argument get the fact that nothing done now can define what “type “ of Brexit we get? All that can be done is to insert something into the PD and into our withdrawal act. The former means nothing and the latter can be overwritten by whatever Gvt is in power in 4-5 years as we close in on a trade deal.
    Well, that is a risk, admittedly.

    But then, if the Tories really are that confident that a Customs Union commitment can be cancelled easily (because an election will definitely get triggered somehow, the Tories will definitely win a landslide, Parliament will then definitely repeal the CU law) then doesn't that beg the question why the Tories are so desperate that the Customs Union DOESN'T get put into the current Withdrawal Bill?
    Well, quite. If I was Boris I wouldn’t give a shit. Even if we have no election until 2022 there will be no deal agreed before then, so any CU amendment is meaningless. The view of the party to with the next election is what matters.
    He may not, but enough if his mps and backers would flip their shit if he passed it with that, even promising hed change it.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875

    GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    And the House of Lords?
    Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.

    The Lords will acquiesce.
    If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
    I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,723

    HYUFD said:
    Does Ken want more time so that he can read the BorisDeal ?

    Unlike the Maastricht Treaty :wink:
    Its fine Big G says Boris has united the Tories
  • GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    And the House of Lords?
    Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.

    The Lords will acquiesce.
    If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
    One word Ben. Corbyn
  • dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    In what way are the LibDems the "biggest" Remain party? Show workings. Use both sides of the paper......
    If you exclude Labour as a Remain party on the basis they have a Leave leader and do not have a Remain policy (which I think is fair) the question then becomes whether the Lib Dems or SNP are "bigger".

    Plainly, the SNP's case would be that it won more seats in 2017. The Lib Dems' case would be that they easily out-poll the SNP, can actually be expected to stand in 600+ seats, came second in the European Parliamentary elections and so on.

    Less than two sides of paper required.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    PMQs tomorrow.

    Will the spoilt child make another appearance?
  • XtrainXtrain Posts: 337
    Can someone explain how MPs can amend the deal when this is the deal approved by the EU?
  • kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.

    There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.

    Strategic geniuses, these remainers.

    Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
    Why does no one on either side of the argument get the fact that nothing done now can define what “type “ of Brexit we get? All that can be done is to insert something into the PD and into our withdrawal act. The former means nothing and the latter can be overwritten by whatever Gvt is in power in 4-5 years as we close in on a trade deal.
    Well, that is a risk, admittedly.

    But then, if the Tories really are that confident that a Customs Union commitment can be cancelled easily (because an election will definitely get triggered somehow, the Tories will definitely win a landslide, Parliament will then definitely repeal the CU law) then doesn't that beg the question why the Tories are so desperate that the Customs Union DOESN'T get put into the current Withdrawal Bill?
    Well, quite. If I was Boris I wouldn’t give a shit. Even if we have no election until 2022 there will be no deal agreed before then, so any CU amendment is meaningless. The view of the party to with the next election is what matters.
    He may not, but enough if his mps and backers would flip their shit if he passed it with that, even promising hed change it.
    And we’re back to reason 3456 of why MPs annoy me. Lack of strategic thinking. Secure the victory you can today (an amended deal) then come back to finish your victory later.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    blueblue said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    And the House of Lords?
    Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.

    The Lords will acquiesce.
    If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
    I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
    He just takes advice from stupid Leninists like Banon and Cummings.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    DougSeal said:

    Floater said:

    Noo said:

    Strategic geniuses, these remainers.

    Yet here we are, still in the EU..
    win the battle lose the war
    Yes. The Referendum being the battle in this case.
    Nope - these mp's dicking around

    Though I am sure you would love to ignore those 17.4 million voters who believed what they were told.

  • HYUFD said:
    Does Ken want more time so that he can read the BorisDeal ?

    Unlike the Maastricht Treaty :wink:
    Its fine Big G says Boris has united the Tories
    He has. Only a handful outside the party now
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274

    GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    And the House of Lords?
    Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.

    The Lords will acquiesce.
    If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
    One word Ben. Corbyn
    Corbyn would be powerless (and very short-lived) as PM, so I still don't get it.
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    Noo said:

    blueblue said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    And the House of Lords?
    Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.

    The Lords will acquiesce.
    If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
    I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
    He just takes advice from stupid Leninists like Banon and Cummings.
    Bannon. Banon is a cheese.
  • Scott_P said:

    Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP

    They kneecapped him. Double tap...

    Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?

    If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,695
    Scott_P said:

    PMQs tomorrow.

    Will the spoilt child make another appearance?

    Of course. It might be the final PMQs before the general election?
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,037
    edited October 2019
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    HYUFD said:
    Does Ken want more time so that he can read the BorisDeal ?

    Unlike the Maastricht Treaty :wink:
    Its fine Big G says Boris has united the Tories
    Jezbollah helps for sure
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,093

    Danny565 said:

    So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.

    There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.

    Strategic geniuses, these remainers.

    Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
    The deal is the only one on offer and will not be reopened by the EU

    The choice is to pass this deal, GE or no deal on 31st January so we are back to where we were
    The Council has extended twice before and found itself with a harder brexit deal from a more popular UK government as a result. Dare it roll the dice again?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Scott_P said:

    Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP

    They kneecapped him. Double tap...

    The DUP will vote through any amendment to wreck Bozos deal. The UUP are putting pressure on them to end the confidence and supply deal with the Tories.


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 38,851
    This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.
  • Can't see Boris going for a GE when he had a majority of 30 in the vote. A GE is too much of a risk. If he looses it or we have another hung parliament he may end up with no Brexit at all.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,572
    edited October 2019
    Scott_P said:
    And on the subject of political death wishes, their comrades here in the West Midlands are getting in on the act. So urgent was the need to shortlist this sort of candidate that she got a special dispensation to stand despite having been a party member for just 4 months. Andy Street must be laughing his socks off.

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2019/10/21/she-has-form-when-it-comes-to-homophobia-anger-as-salma-yaqoob-shortlisted-for-labour-mayoral-tilt/

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1186246558314106881



  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    so, your Labour voters in the north and midlands... you are calling all of them xenophobes are you?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    blueblue said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Ok, I’ve now digested the events of today.

    Some thoughts:

    1. The merry-go-round of doom stutters on.

    2. Boris has weakened himself by not pulling the bill. By not following through with the threat, he emboldens those who were looking to amend the legislation - he becomes the boy who cried wolf. This will not auger well for passage of this legislation.

    3. If the EU offer an extension until the end of January, this probably kills Brexit this side of a general election. The urgency will vanish. MPs will be more likely to play silly games.

    4. Corbyn is clearly holding out for a break of Boris’ promise to be out by 31st. If he gets it, I think Labour will wait for the mood to be tested in a couple of polls, but could then move to supporting a GE.

    5. A GE campaign over Christmas with a vote in January is going to be hideously messy. However, avoiding it is going to be very perilous for labour. As each day goes by, they grow weaker (unless post 31st polling shows a shift).

    6. The public won’t take kindly to being sent out to vote in freezing temperatures in January. Who benefits? Difficult to say at this point.

    7. On balance the odds have to be that we leave the EU with this deal. But still a fair bit of uncertainty swilling around.

    8. I wonder how Oliver Letwin feels this evening...

    Why are you assuming Labout gets a say on an electio one way or another?

    Con + SNP is enough to get a one line election bill through Parliament whatever Labour does.
    And the House of Lords?
    Right, as well as Brexit, let's throw the unelected Lords into the mix of blocking an election the Commons has voted for.

    The Lords will acquiesce.
    If Boris wants an election so badly, why doesn't he just resign?
    I presume he's not in the habit of handing the premiership over to stupid communists...
    It would lead quickly and inevitably to his much-desired GE.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Floater said:

    Noo said:

    Floater said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like the public want to remain in the EU with a mahoosive Tory majority

    That’s quite an indictment of Corbyn.
    who would have thought turning us into Venezuela including the anti semitism wasn't a vote winner
    He probably saw how successful racism has been for Farage and his Leave.EU cronies and decided to tap into that.
    If you want to reduce labours vote share to that of UKIP knock yourself out.

    To be fair you certainly giving it a go - against a paralysed government you are HOW far behind lol

    How shit must Labour be
    I am giving it a go. I would like Labour and the Conservatives both reduced to sub-5%. That would be a dream come true for me. Cheers, glad we agree that bigots like Boris and Jezza have no place in government.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1186716255060922368
  • Scott_P said:

    Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP

    They kneecapped him. Double tap...

    Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?

    If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?
    He's ditched them in that his whole pitch to become leader was, "Oh, wasn't May's deal awful in that it sold out our friends in Northern Ireland? I couldn't support it on that basis and sadly had no option but to stab her repeatedly in the back." And then he came up with a deal the DUP couldn't support either.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?

    If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?

    BoZo secured the deal with the EU by putting a border in the Irish sea
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Scott_P said:
    And on the subject of political death wishes, their comrades in the West Midlands are getting in on the act. So urgent was the need to consider this sort of candidate that she got a special dispensation to stand despite having been a party member for just 4 months. Andy Street must be laughing his socks off.

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2019/10/21/she-has-form-when-it-comes-to-homophobia-anger-as-salma-yaqoob-shortlisted-for-labour-mayoral-tilt/

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1186246558314106881



    add in these charmers

    https://order-order.com/2019/10/22/labours-ealing-north-selection-disaster/

    Labour 2019
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Xtrain said:

    Can someone explain how MPs can amend the deal when this is the deal approved by the EU?

    There is a big difference between the
    WA and what is in the WAIB, it contains the WA agreement but has untold other slight of hand devious moves by the government which they want to slide through without scrutiny.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    So if the indies and tories all vote the same, the third reading needs about 6 of the labour votes to stick - Mann, Flint, Fitzpatrick and Barron are pretty much nailed on, needs 2 or 3 more if a new programme motion can be agreed.
    I think CU and 2REF will fall short
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,037
    edited October 2019
    Floater said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    so, your Labour voters in the north and midlands... you are calling all of them xenophobes are you?
    This whole idea that Labour voters are Leavers is bullshit - the overwhelming majority of Labour voters wherever they are voted Remain.

    This myth needs to be busted asap.
  • eekeek Posts: 24,797
    DanDown said:

    Can't see Boris going for a GE when he had a majority of 30 in the vote. A GE is too much of a risk. If he looses it or we have another hung parliament he may end up with no Brexit at all.

    He only has a majority of 30 because Parliament is happy to discuss the bill.

    When they start looking at it in detail they may not be so happy.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    Scott_P said:
    And on the subject of political death wishes, their comrades in the West Midlands are getting in on the act. So urgent was the need to shortlist this sort of candidate that she got a special dispensation to stand despite having been a party member for just 4 months. Andy Street must be laughing his socks off.

    https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2019/10/21/she-has-form-when-it-comes-to-homophobia-anger-as-salma-yaqoob-shortlisted-for-labour-mayoral-tilt/

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1186246558314106881

    Did they have no one else they could choose? What's so bloody great about her that they would waive rules to let her be a candidate so soon?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    And yet Boris's lead grows bigger and bigger... :)
    But he had momentum for most of the last two weeks since the talks with Vradkar.That will have been halted over the weekend and perhaps reversed somewhat after today's events. As time ticks by , a sense may develop that his bluster is failing to be translated into results and that the country is no further forward than under Theresa May.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    edited October 2019
    DanDown said:

    Can't see Boris going for a GE when he had a majority of 30 in the vote. A GE is too much of a risk. If he looses it or we have another hung parliament he may end up with no Brexit at all.

    Welcome to PB! Always good to get new and unconventional views. :wink:

    You could be right, since for all his bleating, Boris has failed to take the one sure route to a GE (resignation).
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Drutt said:

    Danny565 said:

    So the remain alliance has successfully taken the blame for an extension instead of Boris and, legally, based on what is coming out of the EU, an extension up to 31 Jan will now be agreed to because the EU will offer nothing else.

    There’s no time for a referendum so Boris either gets an election or his deal gets through in a panic as we move towards 31 Jan.

    Strategic geniuses, these remainers.

    Alternatively, we get a super-soft Brexit that the Lisa Nandy faction can swallow (and that the ERG resign themselves to as the only Brexit on offer); or Parliament forces Boris to extend again once we get close to 31st Jan.
    The deal is the only one on offer and will not be reopened by the EU

    The choice is to pass this deal, GE or no deal on 31st January so we are back to where we were
    The Council has extended twice before and found itself with a harder brexit deal from a more popular UK government as a result. Dare it roll the dice again?
    There’s now no time for the European Parliament to ratify the deal . The EU have no choice but to agree an extension . The EU will see some positives in that at least it passed the second reading .
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    kinabalu said:

    This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.

    Wow - lack of self awareness much

    Labour would be doing this out of self interest - not in the interest of the country
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Pulpstar said:

    Looks like the public want to remain in the EU with a mahoosive Tory majority

    One of those things must be wrong.

    It will be fun (gulp) seeing which one.
  • Scott_P said:

    Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP

    They kneecapped him. Double tap...

    Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?

    If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?
    He's ditched them in that his whole pitch to become leader was, "Oh, wasn't May's deal awful in that it sold out our friends in Northern Ireland? I couldn't support it on that basis and sadly had no option but to stab her repeatedly in the back." And then he came up with a deal the DUP couldn't support either.
    The DUP aren't going to support anything which doesn't give them a veto on everything connected to NI and that's not going to happen in the real world.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392

    So if the indies and tories all vote the same, the third reading needs about 6 of the labour votes to stick - Mann, Flint, Fitzpatrick and Barron are pretty much nailed on, needs 2 or 3 more if a new programme motion can be agreed.
    I think CU and 2REF will fall short

    Maybe, but he's just said he's pausing the bill, so we cannot know as they won't be debating it.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Scott_P said:
    Dear EU diplomats

    It is unlikely that there is a brexit deal that can command Government support and gain enough opposition support in a hung parliament. Therefore the only way a deal does get through is through an election.

    Unless you want all this to come back at an EU summit every 3 months and prevent the EU from functioning properly
    No just give us an extension to 2200 that will resolve everything, we can then go back to worry about important things rather than pathetic sovereignty arguments
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,414
    Floater said:

    kinabalu said:

    This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.

    Wow - lack of self awareness much

    Labour would be doing this out of self interest - not in the interest of the country
    I think this had merits back when there was no deal on the table. Now there is a deal, the opposition parties are too far gone to notice this is doing as much damage to them as it is to the government. It’s a death spiral.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    eek said:

    He only has a majority of 30 because Parliament is happy to discuss the bill.

    When they start looking at it in detail they may not be so happy.

    He could still lose the Queen's Speech, and a budget...
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    murali_s said:

    Floater said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    so, your Labour voters in the north and midlands... you are calling all of them xenophobes are you?
    This whole idea that Labour voters are Leavers is bullshit - the overwhelming majority of Labour voters wherever they are voted Remain.

    This myth needs to be busted asap.</blockquote

    Whats left of your voters maybe ....
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,545
    Scott_P said:

    Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP

    They kneecapped him. Double tap...

    Indeed. Vradakar played a blinder in persuading Johnson to accept a deal which did more to boost the cause of a united Ireland than 30 years of IRA terrorism. I very much doubt the Johnson fully appreciated what he was agreeing to.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Another vote O'Mara has shown up for, he's on a roll!
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    kinabalu said:

    This is good. He can't meet the magic date now. Next step is to bog him down and at the same time not allow an election. Take this into 2020. Hope the public start to see the weakness of character and complete absence of integrity in this exclusively self-interested individual.

    More likely they'll see the abject, craven cowardice of the Labour Party.

    Oh wait, judging by the polls, they already have! :wink:
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_P said:
    And yet Boris's lead grows bigger and bigger... :)
    So why is he not calling for an election? Corbyn has said he will support one when the extension is in place, which should be by next week, so what's Johnson waiting for?
    We don't know for sure what extension the EU are offering yet?

    I would suspect the government know it's going to be to 31st January but the government has got to give the EU the courtesy of replying to the Surrender letter.

    As soon as that reply is in (hopefully will be this week) I'm sure they'll push on with getting a general election together.
    Which surrender letter was that? I saw one which was sent to the EU which complied with the Benn Burt act and some other rather odd ones from Al in what wat did Al surrender?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Hoey abstained on 2nd reading. I'm surprised she didn't back up the DUP
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Harrys place used to be a labour leaning blog

    http://hurryupharry.org/2019/10/22/labours-crank-candidates-salma-yaqoob-ali-milani-jo-bird-luke-cresswell/

    "this is Corbyn’s Labour Party. Voting for them would be your shame and the country’s should they be elected. These are the only people willing to run for election under a Labour banner because anyone who might wish to help the country has now been hounded out.

    Vote anyone but Labour."
  • Scott_P said:

    Didn't the DUP also oppose May's Deal ?

    If so how has Boris 'ditched' them ?

    BoZo secured the deal with the EU by putting a border in the Irish sea
    So people who voted against May's Deal have now voted against the BorisDeal.

    No change there then and nobody been ditched.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,545

    HYUFD said:
    Does Ken want more time so that he can read the BorisDeal ?

    Unlike the Maastricht Treaty :wink:
    Its fine Big G says Boris has united the Tories
    He has. Only a handful outside the party now
    About 20 MPs at the last count. And several more have joined the Lib Dems.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday

    How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Hilarious Mogg now blaming the EU for having to have this extremely short time table to pass the legislation.

  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    In what way are the LibDems the "biggest" "strongest" Remain party? Show workings. Use both sides of the paper......
    My mother-in-law insists that Labour are a Brexit party, but this still leaves the barrier of the SNP. I suppose if you disqualify them on the basis that they are more interested in Scottish Independence than on stopping Brexit then that would leave the Liberal Democrats as a bigger/stronger Remain party than the Greens.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    kle4 said:

    Another vote O'Mara has shown up for, he's on a roll!

    Hang on - I thought this bloke was supposed to be resigning over a month ago...
  • kle4 said:

    So if the indies and tories all vote the same, the third reading needs about 6 of the labour votes to stick - Mann, Flint, Fitzpatrick and Barron are pretty much nailed on, needs 2 or 3 more if a new programme motion can be agreed.
    I think CU and 2REF will fall short

    Maybe, but he's just said he's pausing the bill, so we cannot know as they won't be debating it.
    Well at least it will give MPs more time to read it - I'm sure they are all eager to actually do that :wink:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274

    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday

    If only Boris and JRM had been willing to concede that.

    As it is they have lost another key vote and in so doing will only open up the WAB to more scrutiny and more potential amendments than they would have faced had they opted for a speedy but reasonable timetable.

    Today has seen the government commit a serious error which will have significant effects, I suspect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Another vote O'Mara has shown up for, he's on a roll!

    Hang on - I thought this bloke was supposed to be resigning over a month ago...
    Changed his mind. But at least he's showing up for a change. Although not good for the government, another vote it needs to overdome.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture.
    Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    edited October 2019

    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday

    If only Boris and JRM had been willing to concede that.

    As it is they have lost another key vote and in so doing will only open up the WAB to more scrutiny and more potential amendments than they would have faced had they opted for a speedy but reasonable timetable.

    Today has seen the government commit a serious error which will have significant effects, I suspect.
    Yes. An even bigger Tory lead!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,742
    Scott_P said:

    PMQs tomorrow.

    Will the spoilt child make another appearance?

    He doesn’t have a choice, he’s Leader of the Opposition.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture.
    Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates

    31st December? That is not a good idea.
  • Greenwich_FloaterGreenwich_Floater Posts: 389
    edited October 2019
    The opinion poll tonight is interesting and follows a swing towards the tories seen in the latest Panelbase and Survation. I wonder if there might be a You-Gov or Opinium near to 20% lead for the tories in the near future.

    None of which makes the outcome of any election any clearer as there are too many potential game-changers out there. But it probably make Labour less likely to honour their commitment to a GE if no-deal is avoided.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    nichomar said:

    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday

    How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
    In theory it could be two weeks if that's all the EU offer and the HoC approves their offer.

    Not. Happening.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    The second reading of the bill is somewhat irrelevant especially if you want to attach a referendum to it. The media are being silly to big this ‘success’ up. Yes we are on some final flight path but the end result is far from certain.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,742
    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Another vote O'Mara has shown up for, he's on a roll!

    Hang on - I thought this bloke was supposed to be resigning over a month ago...
    Changed his mind.spoke to his bank manager.
    FTFY
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    So people who voted against May's Deal have now voted against the BorisDeal.

    No change there then and nobody been ditched.

    The DUP previously voted with the Tories on other Government business.

    BoZo may yet lose his queen's Speech and budget after ditching the DUP.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    Noo said:

    So tonight johnson will speak to Varadkar, Macron and Merkel and theyll tell him what extension is getting given, he will tell them when he thinks he can get it through and tomorrow we will have a clearer picture.
    Smart money is Jan 31 flexitension with 15, 30, 15, 31, 15, 31 offered as exit dates

    31st December? That is not a good idea.
    Why not?

    (Setting aside that exit is not a good idea full stop!)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    nichomar said:

    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday

    How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
    In theory it could be two weeks if that's all the EU offer and the HoC approves their offer.

    Not. Happening.
    Exactly
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    murali_s said:

    Floater said:

    murali_s said:

    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1186726415208734720

    Lib Dems sticking a knife into Corbyn.

    Who are these 19 idiots giving the green light to a right-wing Tory xenophobic Brexit?
    so, your Labour voters in the north and midlands... you are calling all of them xenophobes are you?
    This whole idea that Labour voters are Leavers is bullshit - the overwhelming majority of Labour voters wherever they are voted Remain.

    This myth needs to be busted asap.
    Current Labour voters ? Yes.

    2017 and before Labour voters, not so much.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    nichomar said:

    The second reading of the bill is somewhat irrelevant especially if you want to attach a referendum to it. The media are being silly to big this ‘success’ up. Yes we are on some final flight path but the end result is far from certain.

    But the landing gear isn't down, engines two and four are on fire, a madman is at the stick and the USA has scrap metal merchants waiting alongside the runway.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,784
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Floater said:

    kle4 said:

    Another vote O'Mara has shown up for, he's on a roll!

    Hang on - I thought this bloke was supposed to be resigning over a month ago...
    Changed his mind.spoke to his bank manager.
    FTFY
    The duties of the Chiltern Hundreds looked too onerous.
  • RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    I think they need to hear from the EU first. The response from Boris didn't rule this out entirely. At least it wasn't a toys out of the pram, I want an election to sort this type answer and was a step up on his previous perfomances as PM in parliament.
  • Scott_P said:

    So people who voted against May's Deal have now voted against the BorisDeal.

    No change there then and nobody been ditched.

    The DUP previously voted with the Tories on other Government business.

    BoZo may yet lose his queen's Speech and budget after ditching the DUP.
    As Boris wants an election that shouldn't be of too much concern.

    And being big mates with the DUP might be a vote winner in Scotland but it isn't in England.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,274
    RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    Because Boris would rather die in a ditch than do that?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842
    Scott_P said:

    Letwin would have made no difference if BoZo had not ditched the DUP

    They kneecapped him. Double tap...

    Deal wasn't possible without throwing DUP under the bus well Mays deal was but noone liked that
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    There was some pressure (by Tories and LabLeave MPs) on JRM to table a timetable motion tomorrow morning to get the committee stage started tomorrow and then work through the weekend to get everything through by Monday next week. He said an emphatic no, which makes me think the Government has 'a cunning plan'....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    And being big mates with the DUP might be a vote winner in Scotland but it isn't in England.

    https://twitter.com/johnharris1969/status/1186628012659429388
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    nichomar said:

    Basically we are leaving with this deal unless labour collapse the govt and go to elections hoping to change the numbers in the HoP. It's a question of agreeing a timescale that doesn't damage himself too much. I'd think Nov 15 is now the target date - 2 weeks for all remaining ratification of bill through commons and lords starting Monday

    How do they get two weeks, extension has to be to 31/1 or parliament decides. The only way it becomes 15/11 if he passes the legislation.
    In theory it could be two weeks if that's all the EU offer and the HoC approves their offer.

    Not. Happening.
    Boris could just accept without referring to parliament.
    And if they did refuse it, we no deal on halloween, there is no safety net unless they vote to revoke
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,140
    Noo said:

    Scott_P said:
    OMG absolute gold.

    Replace him with some Momentum-ite and lose The People's Republic of Morningside.
    I said some weeks ago that Murray will never lose Morningside. I regret that I was imprecise. I meant in an election against other parties. I didn't bank on him being defeated by Labour.
    Ooh - Scortland could really now become a Labour MP-free zone.

    But then was he really a Labour Party member so much as a Unionist ? IIRC he irged people to vote Tory to keep the SNP out - except in his own seat. Foir some reason the full interview seems to have been deleted, if it is not simply my lack of google fu.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/19/tory-and-snp-positions-in-scotland-suggest-surge-in-tactical-voting

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,392
    TudorRose said:

    RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    There was some pressure (by Tories and LabLeave MPs) on JRM to table a timetable motion tomorrow morning to get the committee stage started tomorrow and then work through the weekend to get everything through by Monday next week. He said an emphatic no, which makes me think the Government has 'a cunning plan'....
    Being fair they got a deal when I thought they wouldn't, so I guess we should wait to see what this cunning plan is. But why that plan cannot also see them table a new motion to show they are continuing to be serious about debating and legislating on this, I do not know.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TudorRose said:

    RobD said:

    Why doesn't the government just table a motion with another week of debate time?

    There was some pressure (by Tories and LabLeave MPs) on JRM to table a timetable motion tomorrow morning to get the committee stage started tomorrow and then work through the weekend to get everything through by Monday next week. He said an emphatic no, which makes me think the Government has 'a cunning plan'....
    Unless they are waiting on developments on the hotline to Dublin berlin and Paris tonight
This discussion has been closed.