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SystemSystem Posts: 12,603
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » MPs back the deal but block the timetable

Brexit drama updates:

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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,426
    edited October 2019
    First past the post?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,370
    edited October 2019
    Now what...months of more buggering about. Then an election...then years of buggering about.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    edited October 2019
    Suggests the House might vote for the Withdrawal Agreement plus a Customs Union for the whole UK now if it gets to amend it, thanks to the DUP and Labour MPs from Leave seats backing Brexit with a Deal but not this Deal
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    HYUFD said:

    Suggests the House might vote for the Withdrawal Agreement plus a Customs Union for the whole UK now if it gets to amend it, thanks to the DUP and Labour MPs from Leave seats backing Brexit with a Deal but not this Deal

    Er... isn't that May's Deal?
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Funniest moment of the night was Gillian Keegan MP accidentally blowing up Boris's "brand new deal" spin - she said three days were enough for the debate, because "90%" of this deal is the same as the last one...
  • NorthstarNorthstar Posts: 141
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Now what...months of more buggering about. Then an election...then years of buggering about.

    I have a feeling the EU will grant a short extension. Nothing to stop them extending again if it runs out, but that response piles on the pressure to get the deal through. It’s a cost free response for them at this point.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,370
    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    FFS! The Benn Bill was two pages... The WAB is 110 pages plus 125 pages of explanatory notes!
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    HYUFD said:

    Suggests the House might vote for the Withdrawal Agreement plus a Customs Union for the whole UK now if it gets to amend it, thanks to the DUP and Labour MPs from Leave seats backing Brexit with a Deal but not this Deal

    If the ERG swallow it, then a Customs Union Brexit sails through. But that's always been the case.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,757
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    GetBrexitDone

    I will now pause this legislation

    BoZo
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1186716002295472128
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1186716187620790276
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    FPT:
    DavidL said:

    nichomar said:

    He is a twat, why do we have to leave on 31/10? they haven’t supported his deal they have only voted to allow them to amend the bill. It’s his problem, his date and nobody else’s. Why is is such a twat?

    Actually the date was chosen by the EU. Whether they are willing to change it is not certain. It is not in our gift. Working towards it makes some sense.
    Pausing the bill is not working towards 31/10... or any other date for that matter.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited October 2019
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Curious that the majority in favour of the 2nd reading and the majority against the programme motion were both larger than the expected range.

    The second reading was like the Malthouse Compromise: essentially cost-free to vote for.
    308 appears to be the guaranteed vote for the deal then, with the other 10-12 going to need careful handling/incentives to see it through/see off any amendments, when the bill gets going again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,370
    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    They should have stood on that platform at the GE.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Anybody know where I can get a Halloween Brexit 50p to go with my March badge?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,757
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    They should have stood on that platform at the GE.
    They did.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Andrew said:

    Now I guess we're waiting on whether the EU can stomach a short extension, since the HoC seems to have a comfortable deal majority (even if there's a bit of a mirage, and will likely be chipped away at).

    Supposedly the French aren't keen.

    Giving us not very much time, then discovering that majority is not as strong as it seemed, would result in them facing another emergency request for an extension or accidentally seeing us no deal. Far safer to stick with 31/1 rather than force any other options.

    OTOH
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352

    Sigh. Give us time, and we'll use it. But at least we have the dates for the next crunch votes which won't approve it for future meetings.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    Election Time!!!!!!!! :D
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/REWearmouth/status/1186716002295472128

    In tatters is a bit much - I cannot believe he was certain this would pass.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,488
    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    Because that is what was voted for and we are supposed to live in a democracy.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/fleetstreetfox/status/1186716664097837058
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,370
    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    They should have stood on that platform at the GE.
    They did.
    Some did. And i have no problem with them. The tories and labour MPs stood on get brexit done and they have had years and loads of opportunities.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Curious that the majority in favour of the 2nd reading and the majority against the programme motion were both larger than the expected range.

    The second reading was like the Malthouse Compromise: essentially cost-free to vote for.
    308 appears to be the guaranteed vote for the deal then, with the other 10-12 going to need careful handling/incentives to see it through/see off any amendments, when the bill gets going again.
    As I noted on the previous thread, that’s a very sharp point.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,757
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    Because that is what was voted for and we are supposed to live in a democracy.
    We do live in a democracy. Our elected representatives are doing what is best for the country as they know more than the Daily Mail reading racist frothers.
  • NorthstarNorthstar Posts: 141
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    They should have stood on that platform at the GE.
    One of the many notions Brexit has killed off is that what MPs say to get elected and what they actually then do bear any relation. Was always a tenuous link, to be fair...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,426
    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    If BoZo was bothered about delay, then he shouldn't have illegally prorogued parliament, and then prorogued again for a pointless and farcical Queens speech. The lack of time to go through the Bill is his and JRMs doing.

    Never sign any contract that the salesman won't give you time to read.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,353
    Fourth night in Barca. Went to the Sagrada Familia again, going inside this time. Quite spectacular when the sun shines through the stained glass. Also experienced first bit of serious rain since arriving but it didn't last long. Also visited Gaudi's Casa Battlo, Casa Mila, Park Guell, the Olympic Park, harbour area, Museum of Catalan Art and a very ornate former hospital. Also saw the Nude Camp stadium from outside at any rate. Are you kids still arguing about Brexit? 😂
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    The DUP's leader at Westminister, Nigel Dodds, says MPs have "made a very wise decision to allow for detailed examination of the most important legislation we will ever have to consider".

    "Particularly given the impact on Northern Ireland," he adds.

    He urges the prime minister to talk to the DUP "about what can be done even at this late stage to ensure we join in this great quest to get Brexit done but as one United Kingdom"

    He's seen his party tossed under the bus, but that's just plain silly - he thinks Boris can rip up his deal with the EU now to get the DUP back on side? When they won't agree to anything anyway?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,757
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    They should have stood on that platform at the GE.
    They did.
    Some did. And i have no problem with them. The tories and labour MPs stood on get brexit done and they have had years and loads of opportunities.
    Yes. Get Brexit done. But not *any* Brexit. Certainly not *this* Brexit.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,844
    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352

    Surely Boris will have to resign then. It would be simply unthinkable that he remains in position if we haven't left by the 31st given his promises. A man of such integrity wouldn't just brazenly ignore it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    I await Farage trying to say how awful it is Boris has not taken us out, and how great an extension is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1186713348227981312?s=20
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    edited October 2019
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    Fourth night in Barca. Went to the Sagrada Familia again, going inside this time. Quite spectacular when the sun shines through the stained glass. Also experienced first bit of serious rain since arriving but it didn't last long. Also visited Gaudi's Casa Battlo, Casa Mila, Park Guell, the Olympic Park, harbour area, Museum of Catalan Art and a very ornate former hospital. Also saw the Nude Camp stadium from outside at any rate. Are you kids still arguing about Brexit? 😂

    Nude Camp sounds like fun :wink: (More fun than Brexit anyway!)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    AlastairMeeks said:

    kle4 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Curious that the majority in favour of the 2nd reading and the majority against the programme motion were both larger than the expected range.

    The second reading was like the Malthouse Compromise: essentially cost-free to vote for.
    308 appears to be the guaranteed vote for the deal then, with the other 10-12 going to need careful handling/incentives to see it through/see off any amendments, when the bill gets going again.
    As I noted on the previous thread, that’s a very sharp point.
    Thank you. 1 out of 48246 ain't bad.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,284
    edited October 2019
    Paristonda said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352

    Surely Boris will have to resign then. It would be simply unthinkable that he remains in position if we haven't left by the 31st given his promises. A man of such integrity wouldn't just brazenly ignore it.
    Boris is not resigning anytime soon

    He has united the conservative party
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,370
    edited October 2019
    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Gallowgate said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    What wrong with them...its very simple, they never want brexit to happen.
    Of course they don’t. Why would they? It’s moronic.
    They should have stood on that platform at the GE.
    They did.
    Some did. And i have no problem with them. The tories and labour MPs stood on get brexit done and they have had years and loads of opportunities.
    Yes. Get Brexit done. But not *any* Brexit. Certainly not *this* Brexit.
    And they have had chance after chance to indicate different brexit options. The reality is the majority never want to leave, despite standing on a platform to do so.

    Now they wont even go to the country on the poor deal, the unicorn renegotiate and reject or forget it all platforms.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,322
    What a shambles.

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716292839022592
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1186713348227981312?s=20

    A decent gag, but while I don't think it is definitive, it is a fair point that they have finally said they want a brexit, this brexit, at least in broad terms, and that is new.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    Benpointer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suggests the House might vote for the Withdrawal Agreement plus a Customs Union for the whole UK now if it gets to amend it, thanks to the DUP and Labour MPs from Leave seats backing Brexit with a Deal but not this Deal

    Er... isn't that May's Deal?
    Yes, the biggest winner tonight is probably Theresa May
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    Nothing, there are multiple problems with this legislation which needs resolving, I’ll give you one example in that it removes the obligation for the government to have at least 21 days to discuss international treaties. If you are happy with that fair enough but there are also other problems.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1186717774997012480
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,942
    dr_spyn said:

    What a shambles.

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716292839022592

    Boris!!!!!! :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    dr_spyn said:

    What a shambles.

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716292839022592

    Well the smugger the Remainers get, the more the Tory lead grows
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,538
    dr_spyn said:

    What a shambles.

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716292839022592

    That will bugger up the averages....!
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    kle4 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Curious that the majority in favour of the 2nd reading and the majority against the programme motion were both larger than the expected range.

    The second reading was like the Malthouse Compromise: essentially cost-free to vote for.
    308 appears to be the guaranteed vote for the deal then, with the other 10-12 going to need careful handling/incentives to see it through/see off any amendments, when the bill gets going again.
    No I don't think that's guaranteed in any shape or form.

    Once the committee stage begins adding amendments and, potentially, making a lot of alterations to the bill it is perfectly possible that ERG Brexiteers will peel off. Some of them were already unhappy to be splitting from the DUP and, effectively, the union.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Cannot understand the pause. Ask the Commons for slightly looser timescales in descending order until they find one they accept, and debate every day showing the EU we're working toward approving it. Unless he fears losing some big amendments?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,538
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Paristonda said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352

    Surely Boris will have to resign then. It would be simply unthinkable that he remains in position if we haven't left by the 31st given his promises. A man of such integrity wouldn't just brazenly ignore it.
    Boris is not resigning anytime soon

    He has united the conservative party
    And the voters.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    Paristonda said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352

    Surely Boris will have to resign then. It would be simply unthinkable that he remains in position if we haven't left by the 31st given his promises. A man of such integrity wouldn't just brazenly ignore it.
    These are his principles - if you don't like them, he has others! 😜
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716296643264512?s=20
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,588
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1186717774997012480

    The government is massing its debates.

    Which is very appropriate for a government of mass debaters.
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    I'm thinking the calculation from the government is that it'd be better to go into an election with a deal that has demonstrable support rather than a deal that has been crushed by amendments.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,239
    GIN1138 said:

    Election Time!!!!!!!! :D

    Don't see it myself.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Mysticrose said:

    kle4 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Curious that the majority in favour of the 2nd reading and the majority against the programme motion were both larger than the expected range.

    The second reading was like the Malthouse Compromise: essentially cost-free to vote for.
    308 appears to be the guaranteed vote for the deal then, with the other 10-12 going to need careful handling/incentives to see it through/see off any amendments, when the bill gets going again.
    No I don't think that's guaranteed in any shape or form.

    Once the committee stage begins adding amendments and, potentially, making a lot of alterations to the bill it is perfectly possible that ERG Brexiteers will peel off. Some of them were already unhappy to be splitting from the DUP and, effectively, the union.
    Guaranteed for the deal in this context meant 'in its current form and to see off votes to change it'. As you rightly point out, losing on some votes will risk losing some backers. So the task for Boris is what can he concede on to gain the 12 without losing any of the 308.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1186718369342509059

    If BoZo does request a different date I am not sure the Courts will be happy
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1186717290479443968?s=20
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    HYUFD said:

    Benpointer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suggests the House might vote for the Withdrawal Agreement plus a Customs Union for the whole UK now if it gets to amend it, thanks to the DUP and Labour MPs from Leave seats backing Brexit with a Deal but not this Deal

    Er... isn't that May's Deal?
    Yes, the biggest winner tonight is probably Theresa May
    Not forgetting the UK economy, of course.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1186718629817139209
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    Paristonda said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352

    Surely Boris will have to resign then. It would be simply unthinkable that he remains in position if we haven't left by the 31st given his promises. A man of such integrity wouldn't just brazenly ignore it.
    This is probably the end of Johnson's deal. There is now time for all the faults and difficulties to emerge before it comes back to the Commons - if it ever does - and those Labour MPs who have signalled their virtue to their constituents by voting for the second reading will suddenly discover lots of hidden nasties which will mean that the have no choice but to move unacceptable amendments or withdraw their support altogether. And then we have the Lords and their amendments, and there is no guillotine on their debates.

    I do not think the UK will leave the EU before a general election, and perhaps not even after one if the Tories don't get a majority.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1186717774997012480

    Well he's now won, what, 2 votes? Back to form tomorrow I guess.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1186717852075745280?s=20
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,965
    Jeremy Corbyn: "Tonight, the House has refused to be bounced into debating hugely significantly legislation in just two days, and with barely any notice or analysis of the economic impact.
    "It is the Prime Minister who is the author of his own misfortune tonight"
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    I have been amazed through this Brexit at how often either side has contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Four weeks ago, the Opposition had Johnson on the ropes. They could have struck, but chose instead to toy with him. This led to the surprise of Johnson securing a deal.

    Up until Friday I thought we were 'on' to Brexit. All Johnson needed to do was accept a short technical extension of a few weeks and his deal would almost certainly have passed. Even today he could have done that. But thanks to his utterly ridiculous self-imposed deadline he has totally screwed this up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716296643264512?s=20

    Fewer people support the deal than say they'll vote Tory. That suggests there's no upside from here for Johnson.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/carlgardner/status/1186719016246755331
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1186719130260520962
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716296643264512?s=20

    Anybody taking part in an opinion poll on the current conservative party’s possible deal (not Alexander’s deal) should have to give and explanation of what the proposal is actually about and summaries the 110 page bill in 100 words, if they say it gets it done then I’m afraid they are very short sighted.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    MarqueeMark said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Paristonda said:

    williamglenn said:

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1186714787943780352

    Surely Boris will have to resign then. It would be simply unthinkable that he remains in position if we haven't left by the 31st given his promises. A man of such integrity wouldn't just brazenly ignore it.
    Boris is not resigning anytime soon

    He has united the conservative party
    And the voters.
    All 38% of them
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,403
    When is that Financial Disclosure (or whatever) coming into force?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,006
    nichomar said:

    Endillion said:

    So it was fine to force the Benn Act nonsense through both houses in a day from scratch, casually whacking multiple well-established precedents out of existence in the process, but taking several times as long to finalise a bill they've already approved in principle and spent about a year discussing is totally out of the question. Have I understood correctly? What on earth is wrong with these people?

    Nothing, there are multiple problems with this legislation which needs resolving, I’ll give you one example in that it removes the obligation for the government to have at least 21 days to discuss international treaties. If you are happy with that fair enough but there are also other problems.
    There really isn't a major problem with this bill but there are hard decisions to be made. Are we leaving with the deal Boris negotiated or are we looking to change it back to May's deal with binding agreements on employment and environmental standards? Are we wanting to be in the CU or not? Are we willing to accept a part of the UK being treated differently from the rest of the UK to solve the Irish problem (or at least one of them)? How far are we willing to go in regulatory alignment to keep access to the SM? Are we going to approve this deal in the Commons or are we going to have a second referendum?

    None of these issues really arise from the bill but decisions need to be made on them during its passage. I don't think Boris anticipates liking the answers with this current HoC. Whether he will be able to get a Commons more to his liking remains to be seen.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,239
    OldKingCole said:

    When is that Financial Disclosure (or whatever) coming into force?

    Are you talking about the fake news?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1186718629817139209

    Boris has gloriously swashbuckled his way to a new deal that he was told would be impossible to get and to a 15 point lead in many polls. And he will go into November without any delay being blamed on him and with Farage having called for a delay before it happened.

    Not bad. Not bad at all.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,990
    So on and on and on :wink:

    Various thoughts:

    1) Are the people who were outraged that Trump won despite receiving fewer votes equally outraged that Trudeau did as well ?

    2) Can those people who proclaim the sanctity of the GFA explain why the continued failure to agree a functioning NI assembly and executive doesn't mean the GFA is no longer fit for purpose ?

    3) There were seven different types of British apples on sale this evening in Tesco - looks like the claims about them all rotting in the orchards have as little validity as those about strawberries.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    @HYUFD didn't post this one.

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716294822973440
  • eekeek Posts: 30,832
    Mysticrose said:

    I have been amazed through this Brexit at how often either side has contrived to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Four weeks ago, the Opposition had Johnson on the ropes. They could have struck, but chose instead to toy with him. This led to the surprise of Johnson securing a deal.

    Up until Friday I thought we were 'on' to Brexit. All Johnson needed to do was accept a short technical extension of a few weeks and his deal would almost certainly have passed. Even today he could have done that. But thanks to his utterly ridiculous self-imposed deadline he has totally screwed this up.

    No one wants to own Brexit so everyone does everything and anything they can to lose..
  • PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1186717852075745280?s=20

    Only Labour rebels were Barron, Fitzpatrick, Flint, Hoey and Mann

    Woodcock, Hopkins, Field and Austin also voted with the government
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    edited October 2019
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1186719130260520962

    I thought he was mandated to send a letter with a particular date, and if he frustrated that by guiding them to another, or no date, hed be in breach of the law?

    Obviously they were only concerned regarding the no date frustration, but they didn't want him to send any other letter but which the law demanded.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    edited October 2019
    By the way, as an aside, Jeremy Corbyn did well today.

    He's toxic, for sure, but sometimes he can perform very well. Bear this in mind when you're shelling out your bets ahead of the General Election campaign.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1186718369342509059

    If BoZo does request a different date I am not sure the Courts will be happy

    Indeed. In any event, once the 31 October is missed, what does it matter to Boris if the date is 30/11/19, 31/12/19 or 31/1/2020?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,813
    There must be a GE.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,741
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1186717774997012480

    Well he's now won, what, 2 votes? Back to form tomorrow I guess.
    Goodall should be aware that Queen's Speech votes all occur at the END of the debate, which is normally IIRC after 4 days of debate. So I expect nothing in particular from those days.
  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038
    OldKingCole said:

    When is that Financial Disclosure (or whatever) coming into force?

    Is this it? 1 Jan 2020

    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,713
    Apparently the E.U. will just offer the 3 month extension and don’t want to be drawn into the drama in the Commons .

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,538
    Artist said:

    I'm thinking the calculation from the government is that it'd be better to go into an election with a deal that has demonstrable support rather than a deal that has been crushed by amendments.

    Yep, agree with that.

    The delay is to "have a quiet word" with the SNP..... "About that VONC....how about we just go for an election that sidesteps the FTPA instead...?"
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    williamglenn said:

    @HYUFD didn't post this one.

    https://twitter.com/JoeTwyman/status/1186716294822973440

    He must have missed it
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    kle4 said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    Curious that the majority in favour of the 2nd reading and the majority against the programme motion were both larger than the expected range.

    The second reading was like the Malthouse Compromise: essentially cost-free to vote for.
    308 appears to be the guaranteed vote for the deal then, with the other 10-12 going to need careful handling/incentives to see it through/see off any amendments, when the bill gets going again.
    I think the same applies to an election motion / amendment to the FTPA, UNLESS the Lib Dems switch.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    edited October 2019
    Two questions:
    1. What's going to happen to to all those 31/10/2019 Brexit 50p pieces?
    2. Has the government stopped wasting money on the Get Ready for Brexit ads yet?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1186717774997012480

    So that’s a November election out of the question.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Boris has gloriously swashbuckled his way to a new deal

    By throwing the DUP under the bus.

    And they returned the favour tonight...

    Awesome work.

    BoZo
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,239
    MarqueeMark said:

    Artist said:

    I'm thinking the calculation from the government is that it'd be better to go into an election with a deal that has demonstrable support rather than a deal that has been crushed by amendments.

    Yep, agree with that.

    The delay is to "have a quiet word" with the SNP..... "About that VONC....how about we just go for an election that sidesteps the FTPA instead...?"
    I honestly don't think that would get through the Lords.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,232
    HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/hzeffman/status/1186717852075745280?s=20

    The not wanting the whip back crowd? Several will back the deal but might alter it .
  • NorthstarNorthstar Posts: 141
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/steverichards14/status/1186718629817139209

    Boris has gloriously swashbuckled his way to a new deal that he was told would be impossible to get and to a 15 point lead in many polls. And he will go into November without any delay being blamed on him and with Farage having called for a delay before it happened.

    Not bad. Not bad at all.
    It is amazing how the ‘Boris has messed up’ posts increase in tandem with his polling figures...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,239
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1186717774997012480

    So that’s a November election out of the question.
    Indeed. 5th December now the earliest, I believe.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,233
    Jacob Rees Mogg and Margaret Beckett now having a theological argument over the meaning of limbo
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,627
    rural_voter said:

    OldKingCole said:

    When is that Financial Disclosure (or whatever) coming into force?

    Is this it? 1 Jan 2020

    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/company-tax/anti-tax-avoidance-package/anti-tax-avoidance-directive_en
    Doesn't the Boris Deal bind us to comply anyway, adopting new EU laws during the 'implementation period'?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1186718035362619392?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=http://vote-2012.proboards.com/posts/recent
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited October 2019
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1186719130260520962

    I thought he was mandated to send a letter with a particular date, and if he frustrated that by guiding them to another, or no date, hed be in breach of the law?

    Obviously they were only concerned regarding the no date frustration, but they didn't want him to send any other letter but which the law demanded.
    I think people have said that Boris trying to lobby them against an extension would be against the "spirit" of the law, but I'm not sure it's explicitly outlawed.

    My reading of the bill is that, after he's sent the letter, Boris's only legal duty after that concerns his reaction if/when the EU offers an extension date (if they offer 31st Jan, he's legally required to accept on the spot; if they offer another date, he's legally required to put it to a binding Commons vote within two days).
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