politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The betting markets respond to Johnson’s Charles the First Mov
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But Bercow is defending the rights and opinions of Parliament against THE PEOPLE, and their vote in 2016. That is why his position is so wrong, and so unsustainableRochdalePioneers said:
He has no impartiality - he is Speaker of the House of Commons. Constitutionally he represents the Commons in its relations with the Crown, so he absolutely is partial, biased towards representing the will, opinions and rights of parliament.Byronic said:
Bercow has made the biggest mistake. Exploding with anger at the “constitutional outrage”??? He’s finished after all this. His theoretical impartiality is gone forever.Cicero said:Across all media the response to the Charles the First move has been simply furious.
BoJo has rolled the dice but it is NOT looking good. He will have to back off.
He should have expressed measured concern with a hint of concealed menace.
Again, what happens when the executive requests Her Majesty prorogues parliament and parliament refuses and continues to sit? Because if I read this correctly that is the stand-off to come0 -
HYUFD said:
No Government control of most of the economy is socialism, not a hereditary constitutional monarch as Head of StateSunil_Prasannan said:
MONARCHY = SOCIALISM!HYUFD said:
Rubbish, as a President and his entourage would take most of the money now spent on the royal family while losing the tax revenue from the tourists.Ishmael_Z said:A random thought - the Royals ought to be shit scared of the NHS top trump card: let's take all the money we give to randy Andy and Di-hater Charles and give it to the NHS.
So that's the destruction of Union and the monarchy baked in by lack of foresight on the part of David Cameron. Well done him.
With only 46% of Scots backing independence in the latest Ashcroft poll that is not clear either
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Play chess in an accelerating train and the physicists will model it using nine dimensions.viewcode said:
They move in three[1]: the horsey has to jump over the prawns. Obvs.DavidL said:
My pieces sat in 3 dimensions but I take the point that they moved in 2.Pulpstar said:
Where are you getting the 4th dimension fromDavidL said:So if we assume that this is 4D Chess (is there any other kind, the whole point of chess being to calculate what the board will look like at some point in the future)
? Chess is a well defined problem on a 2D plane 
[1] OK, as it involves motion thru time, also four. We happy now?0 -
142,876FrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
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How long would a prorogation have to be before the Courts would hold it to be unreasonable? Six months?DavidL said:
It's quite an arcane subject and I don't pretend to have studied it in detail but the traditional view used to be that the procedures of the Commons were matters for the Commons and no one else. I will no doubt learn tomorrow but I am struggling to see what the "wrong" that is being sought to be prevented is, at least in law.AlastairMeeks said:Where the government is very vulnerable on any legal challenge is the why question. Why is this prorogation unusually long? The only answer is one that reflects its own lack of control of Parliament. Should the courts assist the executive in avoiding Parliamentary scrutiny? It’s very hard to see why that should be a permissible reason for proroguing.
My guess is that the Court will say, well if Parliament wants to prevent this they can do so next week. But I may be wrong. The courts have been more ready to intervene in recent times as in the Miller case (although that was about changes to our domestic law, not Parliamentary procedure).0 -
And says...AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine you're the barrister in front of an eminent judge with limited patience. Your opposite number is alleging that you're doing this to frustrate democracy. The judge peers over his varifocals and says:
'Get on with implementing the referendum result.'
The lack of self-awareness of remainers is frankly astounding.
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Quick question. What does "prorogation" actually mean in this context? Specifically, will Parliament still be *sitting* next week?0
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That would indeed be unwise. But an answer such as, "well after such a very long session and a substantial change of cabinet we want a full Queens Speech with a a panoply of bills covering a wide range of subjects and this takes time to organise" is quite difficult to disprove.AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine you're the barrister in front of an eminent judge with limited patience. Your opposite number is alleging that you're doing this to frustrate democracy. The judge peers over his varifocals and says:kle4 said:
Are they obliged under law to provide a reason? Genuine question.AlastairMeeks said:Where the government is very vulnerable on any legal challenge is the why question. Why is this prorogation unusually long? The only answer is one that reflects its own lack of control of Parliament. Should the courts assist the executive in avoiding Parliamentary scrutiny? It’s very hard to see why that should be a permissible reason for proroguing.
"So, Mr 4, why is your client taking such an unusually long period of time for prorogation at such a hectic period in British politics against a tight deadline?"
The response "I'm not at liberty to say" is not really going to cut it.
Edit, and Lord Doherty doesn't wear varifocals. You'd be right about the limited patience though.0 -
It is disappointing (to say the least) that remainer mp's were willing to recklessly go to the brink to avoid implementing the democratic will of 17m+ people.kle4 said:
I doubt it. They knew no deal was a risk if they said no but held out. As of now both no deal and remain are possible just as they wanted, so it has gone as expected. If they were willing to deal to avoid no deal we'd not be hear now.
Remainers have played games for the last 3 years and now it's coming home to roost.
They will own the aftermath.0 -
The House of Commons WAS ELECED BY THE PEOPLE. Now please stop shouting.Byronic said:
But Bercow is defending the rights and opinions of Parliament against THE PEOPLE, and their vote in 2016. That is why his position is so wrong, and so unsustainableRochdalePioneers said:
He has no impartiality - he is Speaker of the House of Commons. Constitutionally he represents the Commons in its relations with the Crown, so he absolutely is partial, biased towards representing the will, opinions and rights of parliament.Byronic said:
Bercow has made the biggest mistake. Exploding with anger at the “constitutional outrage”??? He’s finished after all this. His theoretical impartiality is gone forever.Cicero said:Across all media the response to the Charles the First move has been simply furious.
BoJo has rolled the dice but it is NOT looking good. He will have to back off.
He should have expressed measured concern with a hint of concealed menace.
Again, what happens when the executive requests Her Majesty prorogues parliament and parliament refuses and continues to sit? Because if I read this correctly that is the stand-off to come0 -
DavidL said:
Yes that's what I meant all along. Obviously. :-)viewcode said:
They move in three[1]: the horsey has to jump over the prawns. Obvs.DavidL said:
My pieces sat in 3 dimensions but I take the point that they moved in 2.Pulpstar said:
Where are you getting the 4th dimension fromDavidL said:So if we assume that this is 4D Chess (is there any other kind, the whole point of chess being to calculate what the board will look like at some point in the future)
? Chess is a well defined problem on a 2D plane
[1] OK, as it involves motion thru time, also four. We happy now? 0 -
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150,088 :-)Sunil_Prasannan said:
142,876FrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
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I am comfortable with my current position. I am on Warren at 20 for Dem nominee.Pulpstar said:Paging @Foxy, Where's the "Warren steamroller" ?
Real Clear poll averages
Biden 27.3
Sanders 19.2
Warren 16.0
Harris 7.2
Not much sign of it here either :
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/
Lay her at 3.1 if you choose 0 -
Which is precisely why Parliament would be stupid to oblige him. Let Johnson suspend Parliament and dig himself a giant No Deal Brexit shaped hole and then let him fall right into it. It is the only way to resolve this now.Jonathan said:Johnson is trying to provoke an election.
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The SNP’s position confuses me, here.
They are, apparently, fighting tooth and nail against No Deal Brexit.
Which is fair enough. But how does that square with their independence campaign, if they ever get a 2nd referendum?
“Vote YES for an instant No Deal Scottish exit: from the United Kingdom AND the EU!”
That seems quite a hard sell, in the circs0 -
Oh F! The Queen has now been dragged into it all. DangerousScott_P said:0 -
It's taken 5 minutes to add 10 000 votes.Sunil_Prasannan said:
142,876FrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
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I wonder if we're going to see Conservative MPs resign the whip imminently.0
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Among many other things, my sense is that this is a pretty decent shove to Anti No Dealers to shit or get off the pot. Their options seem to be narrowing: I'd be surprised if the courts intervene in how parliament runs itself, and this must strike a line through quite a few of the procedural options. If they've not made significant progress on "taking back control" or VONCing before prorogation, I'd say it's probably almost game over.justin124 said:There has to be the possibility that Johnson's action will make some Tory MPs and Change UK more receptive to having Corbyn as caretaker PM following a successful VNOC.
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Uk bad...eu good... simples.Byronic said:The SNP’s position confuses me, here.
They are, apparently, fighting tooth and nail against No Deal Brexit.
Which is fair enough. But how does that square with their independence campaign, if they ever get a 2nd referendum?
“Vote YES for an instant No Deal Scottish exit: from the United Kingdom AND the EU!”
That seems quite a hard sell, in the circs0 -
Wouldn't the judge then say 'Answer the fucking question!', or words to that effect?DavidL said:
That would indeed be unwise. But an answer such as, "well after such a very long session and a substantial change of cabinet we want a full Queens Speech with a a panoply of bills covering a wide range of subjects and this takes time to organise" is quite difficult to disprove.AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine you're the barrister in front of an eminent judge with limited patience. Your opposite number is alleging that you're doing this to frustrate democracy. The judge peers over his varifocals and says:kle4 said:
Are they obliged under law to provide a reason? Genuine question.AlastairMeeks said:Where the government is very vulnerable on any legal challenge is the why question. Why is this prorogation unusually long? The only answer is one that reflects its own lack of control of Parliament. Should the courts assist the executive in avoiding Parliamentary scrutiny? It’s very hard to see why that should be a permissible reason for proroguing.
"So, Mr 4, why is your client taking such an unusually long period of time for prorogation at such a hectic period in British politics against a tight deadline?"
The response "I'm not at liberty to say" is not really going to cut it.
Edit, and Lord Doherty doesn't wear varifocals. You'd be right about the limited patience though.0 -
They cannot. It requires the agreement of all countries including the UK.That is according to the Treaty.spire2 said:What if the EU unilaterally extends the deadline?
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So 3 years hasn’t been enough for remoaners and an extra 3 days will make all the difference ?
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The UK could be very mischievous and say the only deal they will agree to is one that keeps British law over Scotland with no exit clause.Byronic said:The SNP’s position confuses me, here.
They are, apparently, fighting tooth and nail against No Deal Brexit.
Which is fair enough. But how does that square with their independence campaign, if they ever get a 2nd referendum?
“Vote YES for an instant No Deal Scottish exit: from the United Kingdom AND the EU!”
That seems quite a hard sell, in the circs0 -
Has to be Gauke?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Imagine a chess piece around a Planck length...eristdoof said:
Play chess in an accelerating train and the physicists will model it using nine dimensions.viewcode said:
They move in three[1]: the horsey has to jump over the prawns. Obvs.DavidL said:
My pieces sat in 3 dimensions but I take the point that they moved in 2.Pulpstar said:
Where are you getting the 4th dimension fromDavidL said:So if we assume that this is 4D Chess (is there any other kind, the whole point of chess being to calculate what the board will look like at some point in the future)
? Chess is a well defined problem on a 2D plane
[1] OK, as it involves motion thru time, also four. We happy now?0 -
The lack of constitutional awareness is frankly astounding.CaptainBuzzkill said:
And says...AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine you're the barrister in front of an eminent judge with limited patience. Your opposite number is alleging that you're doing this to frustrate democracy. The judge peers over his varifocals and says:
'Get on with implementing the referendum result.'
The lack of self-awareness of remainers is frankly astounding.
1. Parliament is sovereign. Now that is, whilst still in the EU.
2. No parliament can bind the hands of a successor parliament
3. 2015 parliament enacts a referendum. In our constitution power resides in the Crown in Parliament. Referenda are legally non-binding, may be considered to be politically by choice but in any case see point 2
4. 2017 parliament choses to try and enact the 2016 referendum. Because the election delivered a hung parliament it chooses not to authorise acceptance of the deal, and votes to not allow leaving without a deal
5. "Will of the people" is what was delivered in 2017 at the election. That supercedes all previous votes which is why a defeated government can't refuse to go, pointing to their win at a prior election
Its very very simple. If you want MPs to make a different political choice over Brexit, then elect new ones. The current parliament is legally and constitutionally sovereign to refuse to implement the actions of a previous parliament. That is very explicitly the parliamentary sovereignty that Brexiteers claim they voted for.
So if they didn't vote for sovereignty. And they didn't vote to be better off (because "I'd rather eat grass") then that only leaves racism. They voted to leave to chuck anyone out they don't like. CF Priti "Hang 'Em" Patel's pronouncements on free movement the minute we leave3 -
Presumably the assessment of reasons would be on a balance of probabilities? On the one hand, a lot of weight would be given to the government's assertions, simply by being the government. On the other hand, it does all look inexplicable in terms of immediate timing. Your explanation does not explain why in September/October rather than November/December.DavidL said:
That would indeed be unwise. But an answer such as, "well after such a very long session and a substantial change of cabinet we want a full Queens Speech with a a panoply of bills covering a wide range of subjects and this takes time to organise" is quite difficult to disprove.AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine you're the barrister in front of an eminent judge with limited patience. Your opposite number is alleging that you're doing this to frustrate democracy. The judge peers over his varifocals and says:kle4 said:
Are they obliged under law to provide a reason? Genuine question.AlastairMeeks said:Where the government is very vulnerable on any legal challenge is the why question. Why is this prorogation unusually long? The only answer is one that reflects its own lack of control of Parliament. Should the courts assist the executive in avoiding Parliamentary scrutiny? It’s very hard to see why that should be a permissible reason for proroguing.
"So, Mr 4, why is your client taking such an unusually long period of time for prorogation at such a hectic period in British politics against a tight deadline?"
The response "I'm not at liberty to say" is not really going to cut it.
Edit, and Lord Doherty doesn't wear varifocals. You'd be right about the limited patience though.0 -
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Boris wants to parliamemt to return in mid-October. Can't parliamemt force an extension then?Richard_Tyndall said:
They cannot. It requires the agreement of all countries including the UK.That is according to the Treaty.spire2 said:What if the EU unilaterally extends the deadline?
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Can we just stop all the dicking around for the next two months and just get to the GE.1
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Philip Lee, Justine Greening, or Dominic Grieve would be my guesses.Byronic said:
Has to be Gauke?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
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Big news, and it feels like we are moving into the end game at long last.
If Johnson succeeds in proroguing and thus forcing us out on the basis of No Deal, I really can't see that being a lasting settlement. It will surely mean an election very soon after?0 -
Guto Bebb.TheScreamingEagles said:
Philip Lee, Justine Greening, or Dominic Grieve would be my guesses.Byronic said:
Has to be Gauke?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Not so.oxfordsimon said:
Yes 1997. When Major arranged a 6 week oneGabs2 said:
This seems like the best argument for Remainers. Has there ever been one over 5 weeks?surbiton19 said:
"The UK Parliament was prorogued for just under three weeks before being formally dissolved ahead of the 1997 General Election."
according to the HoC Briefing Paper Number 85890 -
It was also the 2015 Parliament which passed Article 50 not the 2017 Parliament.RochdalePioneers said:
The lack of constitutional awareness is frankly astounding.CaptainBuzzkill said:
And says...AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine you're the barrister in front of an eminent judge with limited patience. Your opposite number is alleging that you're doing this to frustrate democracy. The judge peers over his varifocals and says:
'Get on with implementing the referendum result.'
The lack of self-awareness of remainers is frankly astounding.
1. Parliament is sovereign. Now that is, whilst still in the EU.
2. No parliament can bind the hands of a successor parliament
3. 2015 parliament enacts a referendum. In our constitution power resides in the Crown in Parliament. Referenda are legally non-binding, may be considered to be politically by choice but in any case see point 2
4. 2017 parliament choses to try and enact the 2016 referendum. Because the election delivered a hung parliament it chooses not to authorise acceptance of the deal, and votes to not allow leaving without a deal
5. "Will of the people" is what was delivered in 2017 at the election. That supercedes all previous votes which is why a defeated government can't refuse to go, pointing to their win at a prior election
Its very very simple. If you want MPs to make a different political choice over Brexit, then elect new ones. The current parliament is legally and constitutionally sovereign to refuse to implement the actions of a previous parliament. That is very explicitly the parliamentary sovereignty that Brexiteers claim they voted for.
So if they didn't vote for sovereignty. And they didn't vote to be better off (because "I'd rather eat grass") then that only leaves racism. They voted to leave to chuck anyone out they don't like. CF Priti "Hang 'Em" Patel's pronouncements on free movement the minute we leave0 -
Phillip Lee or Justine Greening.Byronic said:
Has to be Gauke?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Betting on Tory MPs to put country before party is not a winning strategy.Scott_P said:0 -
Good idea. I could get my target lists ready.FrancisUrquhart said:Can we just stop all the dicking around for the next two months and just get to the GE.
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Wild prediction: the VONC will succeed, Boris will fall, there will be an A50 extension under a caretaker government, probably Corbyn. At the ensuing GE Boris will win, but he will be promising... what?
There my clairvoyant skills expire.0 -
Of course it won't be a lasting settlement. We will have to quickly sign up for a deal shortly afterwards, which will be the Withdrawal Agreement or something close to it. So we are goimg to get to the same place via a much more destructive route.rkrkrk said:Big news, and it feels like we are moving into the end game at long last.
If Johnson succeeds in proroguing and thus forcing us out on the basis of No Deal, I really can't see that being a lasting settlement. It will surely mean an election very soon after?0 -
Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.1
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On Phil Hammond as next PM at 100-1. He sounded less than gruntled.0
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Hard to see how they retain credibility or dignity if they dont, given those comments.Scott_P said:0 -
Could also be Bebb, Lee, Greening, Grieve, Sandbach.Byronic said:
Has to be Gauke?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
bigjohnowls said:
Going into a 2hr film. Will be disappointed if it's not over 1million before I leave tbhBenpointer said:Petition not to prorogue parliament over 100k now
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269157?fbclid=IwAR0xZDEcMTEMXUJ6Ipm10EOt8SkWZL5IuEK8rceZPhuoRtyqvOCk-C-vbnA
Whereas this one to prorogue parliament has 20 signatures lol.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269054
I think you'll be lucky there... it's currently going up at about 100k per hour.
Still, once word gets out it might speed up a bit :-)
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The progration purposely ends after the next scheduled EU summit, so there is no opportunity to an extension to be considered (though given the situation perhaps an emergency summit could be convened?)Gabs2 said:
Boris wants to parliamemt to return in mid-October. Can't parliamemt force an extension then?Richard_Tyndall said:
They cannot. It requires the agreement of all countries including the UK.That is according to the Treaty.spire2 said:What if the EU unilaterally extends the deadline?
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What on earth is she supposed to do now?Scott_P said:0 -
With a VONC, Boris will call a new election and remain as Prime Minister. So no extension and No Deal.Byronic said:Wild prediction: the VONC will succeed, Boris will fall, there will be an A50 extension under a caretaker government, probably Corbyn. At the ensuing GE Boris will win, but he will be promising... what?
There my clairvoyant skills expire.0 -
Boris has put the Queen in an impossible position, the one thing you are not supposed to do.
Regardless of what side of the Brexit argument your on, that surely is a mistake. Possibly a career ending mistake.0 -
There's definitely going to be an election by May next year, at the vey latest.rkrkrk said:Big news, and it feels like we are moving into the end game at long last.
If Johnson succeeds in proroguing and thus forcing us out on the basis of No Deal, I really can't see that being a lasting settlement. It will surely mean an election very soon after?0 -
Those MPs were elected by the people in 2017. If Boris doesn't like it he should call an election.isam said:Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.
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Boris doesn't call a new election - he can't do that under the FTPA.Gabs2 said:
With a VONC, Boris will call a new election and remain as Prime Minister. So no extension and No Deal.Byronic said:Wild prediction: the VONC will succeed, Boris will fall, there will be an A50 extension under a caretaker government, probably Corbyn. At the ensuing GE Boris will win, but he will be promising... what?
There my clairvoyant skills expire.0 -
1.01 weighed inFrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1166685640781705216?s=210 -
To the Lib Dems I imagine. The remaking of the UK party system along Brexit lines continues.AndyJS said:
Could also be Bebb, Lee, Greening, Grieve, Sandbach.Byronic said:
Has to be Gauke?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Wings over Scotland now saying UK Leave vote must be respected but Scots should seek independence from a post Brexit UKByronic said:The SNP’s position confuses me, here.
They are, apparently, fighting tooth and nail against No Deal Brexit.
Which is fair enough. But how does that square with their independence campaign, if they ever get a 2nd referendum?
“Vote YES for an instant No Deal Scottish exit: from the United Kingdom AND the EU!”
That seems quite a hard sell, in the circs
https://wingsoverscotland.com/coup-versus-coup/0 -
They were elected on the promise of respecting the referendum resultGallowgate said:
Those MPs were elected by the people in 2017. If Boris doesn't like it he should call an election.isam said:Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.
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Hancock and Rudd MUST resign, Shirley?0
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Dunno about that, I suspect sorting a deal after this mess will be tricky as well as urgent. If I were the EU i would at least wait for a GE to see if they have to deal with Johnson or Corbyn.Gabs2 said:
Of course it won't be a lasting settlement. We will have to quickly sign up for a deal shortly afterwards, which will be the Withdrawal Agreement or something close to it. So we are goimg to get to the same place via a much more destructive route.rkrkrk said:Big news, and it feels like we are moving into the end game at long last.
If Johnson succeeds in proroguing and thus forcing us out on the basis of No Deal, I really can't see that being a lasting settlement. It will surely mean an election very soon after?0 -
Have you checked with @HYUFD to see if you are right?Byronic said:Wild prediction: the VONC will succeed, Boris will fall, there will be an A50 extension under a caretaker government, probably Corbyn. At the ensuing GE Boris will win, but he will be promising... what?
There my clairvoyant skills expire.0 -
I did wonder about this last month. It only takes a simple majority to revoke the FTPA so itbis easier to do that than actually get an election passed. .Stereotomy said:
If parliament has taken control of the agenda, is it possible for them to first pass a change to the FTPA then a VONC?DavidL said:Let's assume for the moment that the proposed application for interim interdict doesn't succeed. Let's assume that Parliament convenes next week and a VONC is moved and passed. Do Labour support a motion for instant dissolution of Parliament or do we wait 14 days? Surely it has to be instant if we are to have an election before 31st October. Furthermore how does dissolution and the FTPA interact? How can you have a vote of confidence if Parliament isn't sitting? I think that it is at least implied that Parliament is sitting for those 14 days.
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Scott_P said:
That seems like quite a clever move from Corbyn tbf.0 -
Riley ?PeterMannion said:Hancock and Rudd MUST resign, Shirley?
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A new election is called by the VONC, with a 14 day waiting period, unless a VOC happens. Boris not resigning and not recommending a successor means there is no alternative government to get a VOC.eek said:
Boris doesn't call a new election - he can't do that under the FTPA.Gabs2 said:
With a VONC, Boris will call a new election and remain as Prime Minister. So no extension and No Deal.Byronic said:Wild prediction: the VONC will succeed, Boris will fall, there will be an A50 extension under a caretaker government, probably Corbyn. At the ensuing GE Boris will win, but he will be promising... what?
There my clairvoyant skills expire.0 -
Who was? Not the Lib Dems. Not the SNP. Not the Green Party. Not Plaid Cymru.isam said:
They were elected on the promise of respecting the referendum resultGallowgate said:
Those MPs were elected by the people in 2017. If Boris doesn't like it he should call an election.isam said:Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.
If you mean the Labour Party, they were elected to implement their version of a soft Brexit. Not any old Brexit. Certainly not no deal.0 -
BBC's Birmingham vox-pop overwhelmingly in support of Boris's move, feeling that the Brexit debate has gone on long enough, it needs to be sorted and there needs to be certainty.
Somewhat contradicts BBC bedwetting.0 -
And could they take the decision to prorogue out of the Royal Prerogativedixiedean said:
Apparently so. Another question. Doesn't Parliament vote to rise? If it doesn't assent, it continues to sit?viewcode said:Quick question. What does "prorogation" actually mean in this context? Specifically, will Parliament still be *sitting* next week?
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I must have missed the mass defections promised when Boris became leader and went for No Deal. I'll admit that a few have followed through, but the vast majority have not.Nigel_Foremain said:0 -
SadGallowgate said:
Who was? Not the Lib Dems. Not the SNP. Not the Green Party. Not Plaid Cymru.isam said:
They were elected on the promise of respecting the referendum resultGallowgate said:
Those MPs were elected by the people in 2017. If Boris doesn't like it he should call an election.isam said:Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.
If you mean the Labour Party, they were elected to implement their version of a soft Brexit. Not any old Brexit. Certainly not no deal.0 -
But it again comes back to rigging the established rules to favour their own side. This is becoming increasingly normal and is very dangerous.Richard_Tyndall said:
I did wonder about this last month. It only takes a simple majority to revoke the FTPA so itbis easier to do that than actually get an election passed. .Stereotomy said:
If parliament has taken control of the agenda, is it possible for them to first pass a change to the FTPA then a VONC?DavidL said:Let's assume for the moment that the proposed application for interim interdict doesn't succeed. Let's assume that Parliament convenes next week and a VONC is moved and passed. Do Labour support a motion for instant dissolution of Parliament or do we wait 14 days? Surely it has to be instant if we are to have an election before 31st October. Furthermore how does dissolution and the FTPA interact? How can you have a vote of confidence if Parliament isn't sitting? I think that it is at least implied that Parliament is sitting for those 14 days.
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Both of them have gone up in my estimation. A bit, anyway....... I wonder if my Tory MP will stick his neck out too. After all, he was recently given the order of the boot by Johnson, so he might.kle4 said:
Hard to see how they retain credibility or dignity if they dont, given those comments.Scott_P said:0 -
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If there has been an extension then Boris will promise to leave on whatever the new date is (31st Jan?)Benpointer said:
Have you checked with @HYUFD to see if you are right?Byronic said:Wild prediction: the VONC will succeed, Boris will fall, there will be an A50 extension under a caretaker government, probably Corbyn. At the ensuing GE Boris will win, but he will be promising... what?
There my clairvoyant skills expire.0 -
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Good to see you posting again, Sam. And agree wholeheartedly. The fact that our society could be as heartless as to leave behind Jacob Rees-Mogg is one of our national disgraces.isam said:Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.
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179,385FrancisUrquhart said:Oh god are we now going to get the borefest of a signature count update every 15mins ala the clarkson one and the last anti-brexit one.
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Is it okay to talk about "war" then now?0
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I'd supposed the issue was who could propose that change to the FTPA. Wouldn't it be for the Govt. to propose such changes? How does the Opposition bring it about?Richard_Tyndall said:
I did wonder about this last month. It only takes a simple majority to revoke the FTPA so itbis easier to do that than actually get an election passed. .Stereotomy said:
If parliament has taken control of the agenda, is it possible for them to first pass a change to the FTPA then a VONC?DavidL said:Let's assume for the moment that the proposed application for interim interdict doesn't succeed. Let's assume that Parliament convenes next week and a VONC is moved and passed. Do Labour support a motion for instant dissolution of Parliament or do we wait 14 days? Surely it has to be instant if we are to have an election before 31st October. Furthermore how does dissolution and the FTPA interact? How can you have a vote of confidence if Parliament isn't sitting? I think that it is at least implied that Parliament is sitting for those 14 days.
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The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.0
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BBC Birmingham vox pops having an historic and valued role in our unwritten constitution.KentRising said:BBC's Birmingham vox-pop overwhelmingly in support of Boris's move, feeling that the Brexit debate has gone on long enough, it needs to be sorted and there needs to be certainty.
Somewhat contradicts BBC bedwetting.0 -
What did I say that was untrue or incorrect?isam said:
SadGallowgate said:
Who was? Not the Lib Dems. Not the SNP. Not the Green Party. Not Plaid Cymru.isam said:
They were elected on the promise of respecting the referendum resultGallowgate said:
Those MPs were elected by the people in 2017. If Boris doesn't like it he should call an election.isam said:Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.
If you mean the Labour Party, they were elected to implement their version of a soft Brexit. Not any old Brexit. Certainly not no deal.0 -
How bored must I be?TOPPING said:
Good to see you posting again, Sam. And agree wholeheartedly. The fact that our society could be as heartless as to leave behind Jacob Rees-Mogg is one of our national disgraces.isam said:Well done to Boris. The behaviour of the MPs trying to suffocate the public into Remain because they lost the referendum meant something drastic was needed to explode the impasse. The refusal to listen to those left behind by those who do well out of the status quo was the entire reason Leave won. They never learn.
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You earlier said that Boris was right to prorogue parliament as it had thwarted the will of the people over Brexit. Boris said in his interview that it was nothing to do with Brexit, it was to push forward his domestic agenda.HYUFD said:
Wings over Scotland now saying UK Leave vote must be respected but Scots should seek independence from a post Brexit UKByronic said:The SNP’s position confuses me, here.
They are, apparently, fighting tooth and nail against No Deal Brexit.
Which is fair enough. But how does that square with their independence campaign, if they ever get a 2nd referendum?
“Vote YES for an instant No Deal Scottish exit: from the United Kingdom AND the EU!”
That seems quite a hard sell, in the circs
https://wingsoverscotland.com/coup-versus-coup/
Which of you is right?0 -
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Johnson risks paying a high political price for this without receiving any political benefit because even this kind of gesture doesn't change the substance.0
