Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.
Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?
The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amended
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.
No, there is an established tradition that a PM after losing the election nominates his/her sucessor.
Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
Yes, if there's an election it's going to be much more about "Do you favour the Johnson coup and No Deal?" than "Are you worried about Corbyn?"
Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Jo Swinson complaining Boris is taking away crucial time for parliament to discuss Brexit.
Not so crucial that mp's were willing to sacrifice their summer holidays though.
Well, quite. We all want a summer holiday but businesses usually manage to function. The HoC quorum is actually quite small, 40 or so IIRC. They could have happily sat over the summer if it was so important to keep the Government to account, and no-one would have had to miss their holiday.
Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?
Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?
Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
Yes, if there's an election it's going to be much more about "Do you favour the Johnson coup and No Deal?" than "Are you worried about Corbyn?"
Does that leave Swinson just bumping her gums then?
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.
Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?
Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?
No. They don't.
Might be fun for Grieve et al to submit letters to Graham Brady then.
Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.
Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?
I thought the right on luvvie brigade were the industry with a very high percentage of people employing the most tax efficient personal service companies. Them and NHS consultants.
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
How many other conspiracy theories do you believe in?
Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
This "carry on" is precisely the strong, purposeful, determined government that the memberhip just voted for.
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I reckon. Cons were spooked by how well Corbyn's soirée went yesterday. They were banking on it not happening/breaking up in rancour. So they have gone nuclear. This has further United the opposition and probably girded some loins on Tory rebel side, too. Thus, battle lines are crystal clear before Parliament meets. That is what "Do or Die" actually meant. Sometimes it is just a cigar.
Serious question. Might the Tory party VONC Boris before he gets to call a GE after all of this? I mean, they can hardly think all this carry on is optimal.
Interesting question. Do new Tory leaders get a 12 month grace period before a VONC can be called?
May did (from her MPs). Edit I miss read your comment. I don't think 12 months applies to a new appointee.
Corbyn was absolutely right to write to the Queen. Today is a gift for him. Johnson has given him the best chance he will ever have of reviving the 2017 Labour voting coalition, with some added LibDem gains in the south on top.
You clearly have very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled remain lobby) most of the country is.
Don`t you mean " very little idea about how fed up with Brexit (and the self-entitled lobby of tax dodgers and their Conservative front") most of the country is?
I thought the right on luvvie brigade were the industry with a very high percentage of people employing the most tax efficient personal service companies. Them and NHS consultants.
Jo Swinson complaining Boris is taking away crucial time for parliament to discuss Brexit.
Not so crucial that mp's were willing to sacrifice their summer holidays though.
Well, quite. We all want a summer holiday but businesses usually manage to function. The HoC quorum is actually quite small, 40 or so IIRC. They could have happily sat over the summer if it was so important to keep the Government to account, and no-one would have had to miss their holiday.
The fuss over the loss of four days sitting time is quite something. Given how rapidly they passed the bill last time, I’m not sure what remain MPs have to worry about.
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
So they don't bring Parliament done but instead just use the time available for them.
It's clear Boris wants an election so all they need to do is avoid triggering one.
I reckon. Cons were spooked by how well Corbyn's soirée went yesterday. They were banking on it not happening/breaking up in rancour. So they have gone nuclear. This has further United the opposition and probably girded some loins on Tory rebel side, too. Thus, battle lines are crystal clear before Parliament meets. That is what "Do or Die" actually meant. Sometimes it is just a cigar.
The Conservatives certainly seem to want to fight an election whilst Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party. But im not sure i would describe that as being "spooked"....
Is it? The convention pre-FTPA meant a government with no confidence can resolve the matter with an election. The FTPA raises the threshold to have that election but doesn't say anything about the process for changing PMs in the lead up.
They don't say anything about that in the FTPA because the existing process still applies, namely that if somebody else looks like they can get the confidence of the House they get appointed PM and get to test it.
Believe it or not the 14 day period isn't just there to give everyone a chance to chill.
Yeah but the usual way it works is the PM resigns and nominates a successor. Not sure the FTPA was written in a way that accounted for a PM not doing that.
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
But almost everyone has been spotting that as a strategy and commenting on it, at great length, for weeks.
The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amended
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
You’re right, obviously (no sure on what basis anyone is disagreeing with you), but it will be fascinating to see it play out, and a lot of the public will be surprised to learn we live in a Parliamentary democracy.
I think one thing we’ve discovered from the last two years is how ancient our constitution looks when there isn’t a Gvt majority. The last time this was commonplace was more than 100 years ago, on a different time and when the very idea of democracy (as we now view it) was up for debate. Either way, we’re going to have to tidy it up.
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
So they don't bring Parliament done but instead just use the time available for them.
It's clear Boris wants an election so all they need to do is avoid triggering one.
But equally, they have to find a legislatve mechanism to stop Brexit in the (short) meantime. One not found to date.....
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
Where is you’re proof for that allegation? Just because you think you can sign it three hundred times using different names etc they get removed on a regular basis by cleaning software similar to that used in the direct mail industry. What you can do is sign twice with the same email address and different names as many couples share their email address.
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
But almost everyone has been spotting that as a strategy and commenting on it, at great length, for weeks.
Won't stop remainers falling right in to the trap.
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
So they don't bring Parliament done but instead just use the time available for them.
It's clear Boris wants an election so all they need to do is avoid triggering one.
They seem unable to though, dont they? Who will they put in Johnson's place? The remain lobby are a disunited rabble and have been comprehensively outplayed.
I am very equivocal about brexit. I voted remain but i strongly believe the vote must be honoured. My reading of my friends, family and colleagues who voted similarly is that they increasingly feel the same way. This is the wave Johnson is trying to ride, so far quite succesfully...
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
Obviously those supportive of us leaving without a Deal will believe that but the truth is the majority do not want us to leave without a Deal and would prefer MPs and others to keep working to prevent the disaster of a No Deal Brexit.
The problem with standing on an anti-Parliament ticket is that it just looks like you want your turn at having a snout in the trough.
Possibly stupid question - but why is this happening in Edinburgh and the Scottish courts, and not London?
Because Scottish MPs , MSPs and Lords are petitioning. It could have happened in London too, in the High Court. This is not in front of the Supreme Court, yet !
The reason it is happening at the Court of Session is that they don’t take summer holidays, unlike the London court.
(Incidentally Byronic, the English language was not born in “these islands” but on the mainland, in what is now northern Germany/southern Jutland.)
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
But almost everyone has been spotting that as a strategy and commenting on it, at great length, for weeks.
Won't stop remainers falling right in to the trap.
Yes. And 2 days ago Corbyn desperately wanted No Deal more than anything.
The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amended
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
The appointmemt is not expired but the conventions are obviously different immediately after an election compared to the middle of a term.
And it is certainly far from hopeful. The best approach is an extension and a deal. You seem unable to differentiate between what someone thinks is the situation to what they want as the situation.
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
Obviously those supportive of us leaving without a Deal will believe that but the truth is the majority do not want us to leave without a Deal and would prefer MPs and others to keep working to prevent the disaster of a No Deal Brexit.
The problem with standing on an anti-Parliament ticket is that it just looks like you want your turn at having a snout in the trough.
It is clear that Boris would prefer a deal and those caricaturing no deal as his "preferred" outcome don't seem to understand how negotiations work.
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
Have you any evidence that there were large numbers of fake/duplicate signatures to the previous petition that were not removed by the people who run the petition?
I suspect that you are simply repeating a comforting talking point so you do not have to face how split the country is, and how many people are strongly opposed to your position. (And, yes, Remainers also indulge in this sort of self-deception).
The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.
Now I know it's early, and we shouldn't read too much etc etc but there is no way the two party vote should be near Even money the pair.
Those are astoundingly dreadful numbers.
They've got Biden on 32, Warren 19, Sanders 15.
I think Sanders is ahead of Warren given ALL the polls we have right now but it's harder to tell than the fact Biden is likely still out ahead by at least 9 points or so.
Boris proroguing parliament from mid sept to mid oct has the benefit of less satellite internet use by myself on our transatlantic cruise between those dates ( unless a vonc happens in the meantime)
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
Bring it on.
If Boris can win an election promising No Deal then fair enough, the British people will have made an informed choice (or as informed as we get in our democracy).
But I suspect the reason he has consistently opposed an election is that he knows it will be difficult for him to win.
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
Where is you’re proof for that allegation? Just because you think you can sign it three hundred times using different names etc they get removed on a regular basis by cleaning software similar to that used in the direct mail industry. What you can do is sign twice with the same email address and different names as many couples share their email address.
Somebody showed for "academic" purposes how easy it was on the last anti-brexit one. They knocked up a script in a day and had it add loads of fake signatures, which werent removed. It is very easy to get huge numbers of email addresses, change ips, etc.
Lmao Trump is trolling Corbyn on Twitter. Remainers have a problem, defying HMQ might lead to unintended consequences
I think involving her at all at this time is unwise but I suspect Jo knows full well she won't get a meeting though I believe former Prime Ministers have always been able to seek an audience with HMQ if desired.
Imagine Major, Blair, Cameron, Brown and May all going to see HMQ together and urging the prorogation be halted.
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
Have you any evidence that there were large numbers of fake/duplicate signatures to the previous petition that were not removed by the people who run the petition?
I suspect that you are simply repeating a comforting talking point so you do not have to face how split the country is, and how many people are strongly opposed to your position. (And, yes, Remainers also indulge in this sort of self-deception).
Thats what ive read - that there were possibly hundreds of thousands of fake and duplicated signatures. Is that not correct?
Hmmm. I'm getting a bit concerned for Boris here. If the feeling grows that he's a No Deal zealot willing to destroy anything in his path, then public opinion could cool very rapidly. Of course, Boris wants to keep everyone seeing him as 'Boris - Man of the People versus parliament', but can he sustain that narrative or will it slip from his control? Risky.
The key comments so far seem to me to be the anti-Brexit but anti-Corbyn rebels (not least Grieve) who are starting to switch to backing a VONC instead of pursuing new legislation. If that gathers steam then Johnson could be out by the end of next week, irrespective of what happens then.
But this isn’t true. I’ve just been reading the FTPA (how tragic is that. In the Greek sunshine)
Boris does not have to resign. It’s just a convention. He can sit tight and call an election for a date after Brexit Halloween.
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amended
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
You’re right, obviously (no sure on what basis anyone is disagreeing with you), but it will be fascinating to see it play out, and a lot of the public will be surprised to learn we live in a Parliamentary democracy.
I think one thing we’ve discovered from the last two years is how ancient our constitution looks when there isn’t a Gvt majority. The last time this was commonplace was more than 100 years ago, on a different time and when the very idea of democracy (as we now view it) was up for debate. Either way, we’re going to have to tidy it up.
You mean by actually writing a constitution, rather than pulling together a patchwork of precendents from different sources? That is just too modern for the UK.
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
You can easily reach a quarter of a million politically engaged people through social media, etc, without having to wait for the 6 o'clock news.
Hmmmm.....and posting about it? I doubt it.
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company.
But it is a petition! Show me any petition which is a representative sample.
A rigged petition even more so. Which are two reasons why it will be ignored.
You are completely barking. It may be ignored, but you have no evidence it is rigged. Of course there will be some duplicates just as in any petition. It is a petition after all and not a poll. Checks are done to stop wholesale abuse. You are just making stuff up because you don't like it.
Do you actually think people were sitting around ready to kick off these fake posts at a moments notice.
The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.
Are the timings there for him? If, as @HYUFD suggested, he needs an extension then he is toast as TBP will wipe the floor with him. Or can he fit an election in before Oct 31st?
I think, and this is probably wrong as Bercow/Grieve might be able to come up with somthing or other to stop Johnson (Who knows) but actually it is going to come down to MPs choosing between a "No Deal" Brexit and installing Corbyn.
As @AndyJS notes, this is about making an unpalatable choice.
The WA was an unpalatable choice, but better than these options. MPs should have taken it, as Paul Masterton noted both sides can not be right.
Lmao Trump is trolling Corbyn on Twitter. Remainers have a problem, defying HMQ might lead to unintended consequences
I think involving her at all at this time is unwise but I suspect Jo knows full well she won't get a meeting though I believe former Prime Ministers have always been able to seek an audience with HMQ if desired.
Imagine Major, Blair, Cameron, Brown and May all going to see HMQ together and urging the prorogation be halted.
She will not be moved on this imo, now the decision is taken. Johnson of course would use such interventions as evidence of the establishment trying to subvert democracy and call for an election to crush the saboteurs
High numbers in Hornsea, Bristol West and Brighton Pavilion.
Low numbers in Hull, Wigan and Torfaen.
Who'd have thunk it.
Running at about 2000 signatures a minute... Its going to be a big one.
As most of the country wont hear or engage on this until the 6 o'clock news this just shows how many of the signatures are faked or duplicated.
LOL. Have you heard about these things called twitter and facebook?
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
Guardian reading twitter trolls get a lunch break too, you know.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
Have you any evidence that there were large numbers of fake/duplicate signatures to the previous petition that were not removed by the people who run the petition?
I suspect that you are simply repeating a comforting talking point so you do not have to face how split the country is, and how many people are strongly opposed to your position. (And, yes, Remainers also indulge in this sort of self-deception).
Thats what ive read - that there were possibly hundreds of thousands of fake and duplicated signatures. Is that not correct?
I think, and this is probably wrong as Bercow/Grieve might be able to come up with somthing or other to stop Johnson (Who knows) but actually it is going to come down to MPs choosing between a "No Deal" Brexit and installing Corbyn.
As @AndyJS notes, this is about making an unpalatable choice.
The WA was an unpalatable choice, but better than these options. MPs should have taken it, as Paul Masterton noted both sides can not be right.
It forces the issue, and it's about time.
I agree. The pro-EU side need to stop messing about with meaningless extensions and decide on a choice as to how they want to proceed.
The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.
Are the timings there for him? If, as @HYUFD suggested, he needs an extension then he is toast as TBP will wipe the floor with him. Or can he fit an election in before Oct 31st?
A general election after a VoNC is on October 24th if Parliament moved quickly enough.
Parliament won't as it makes more sense for Cooper Letwin 3 to be implemented.
I think, and this is probably wrong as Bercow/Grieve might be able to come up with somthing or other to stop Johnson (Who knows) but actually it is going to come down to MPs choosing between a "No Deal" Brexit and installing Corbyn.
As @AndyJS notes, this is about making an unpalatable choice.
The WA was an unpalatable choice, but better than these options. MPs should have taken it, as Paul Masterton noted both sides can not be right.
It forces the issue, and it's about time.
And, conveniently, proroguing allows the WA to be brought back before Parliament (sans backstop, of course).
What the remain lobby doesn't seem to realise is that Johnson/Cummings have also laid a trap for them. Bring the government down and it initiates a GE in which Johnson stands on an anti-Parliament ticket....and wins.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
Johnson? He's more likely to run a mile from an election.
Hmmm. I'm getting a bit concerned for Boris here. If the feeling grows that he's a No Deal zealot willing to destroy anything in his path, then public opinion could cool very rapidly. Of course, Boris wants to keep everyone seeing him as 'Boris - Man of the People versus parliament', but can he sustain that narrative or will it slip from his control? Risky.
With your avatar? Your concern for Boris is touching - if a little unconvincing.....
Hmmm. I'm getting a bit concerned for Boris here. If the feeling grows that he's a No Deal zealot willing to destroy anything in his path, then public opinion could cool very rapidly. Of course, Boris wants to keep everyone seeing him as 'Boris - Man of the People versus parliament', but can he sustain that narrative or will it slip from his control? Risky.
The "PARLIAMENT SUSPENDED" banners across the TV newswires don't help either. Gives a sense of there being some kind of untoward activity.
The worst outcome for Boris would have been to have had Parliament force him to extend by law but simultaneously compel him to remain in office by refusing to VONC him.
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.
This should be the strategy. Refuse to VONC, but force extension. Only VONC if he refuses to enforce the extension OR after extension. That way his beloved show of strength is shown to be force. If Johnson cannot do it on WILL alone, then he will actually have to create a plan and explain it to the public. This will not win him a GE.
Not if he is replaced by a GONU, or the FTPA is subsequently amended
I don’t think that’s true if he just sits in number 10, promising to call a vote. After Brexit.
The term VOC in government means in any prospective government not the government. He can’t sit it out for 14 days if someone else demonstrates the have confidence.
As I have pointed out repeatedly, but our more desperate Leavers refuse to consider, if Boris Johnson were capable of doing this before an election, he could do so after losing an election too and insisting on endless general elections rather than cede power.
But there is an established convention for HM picking the winner of the election.
The Prime Minister’s appointment does not expire on an election. The two cases are identical.
In other words, your hopeful Leave idea is hogwash.
The appointmemt is not expired but the conventions are obviously different immediately after an election compared to the middle of a term.
And it is certainly far from hopeful. The best approach is an extension and a deal. You seem unable to differentiate between what someone thinks is the situation to what they want as the situation.
The schema of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act makes it clear what is expected to happen in the 14 day period (the name of the Act is a big clue). A vote of no confidence is supposed to be an opportunity for Parliament to change governments, not a different way for the Prime Minister to engineer an early election - a specific and more demanding route is set out for that. Any attempt by the Prime Minister to subvert that, particularly for the collateral purpose of imposing a policy on the country that he could not secure through Parliamentary vote, would be reviewable by the courts.
You are happy to conjure up extra-statutory convention as something legally enforceable when you so wish, yet disregard Parliament's intent when it suits you. You make ridiculous argument after ridiculous argument in favour of Leave positions, while pretending to be a Remain supporters, apparently in the belief that will give your dumb arguments more weight. Why?
He also has told worried subordinates that he will pardon them of any potential wrongdoing should they have to break laws to get the barriers built quickly, those officials said....
Comments
And at the every least such posters would not be seen as representative of the general population by any FMCG company.
If you look at the rate of increase graph at the bottom you can see that it peaked during the standard luncheon hours for those working 9-5. Looks legit to me.
People signing this petition are not (so far) representative of the broader population. Moreover, the last anti-Brexit mass petition was supported by large numbers of fake and duplicated signatures as will be, i suspect, this one.
Let us wait and see the next few polls taken following todays announcement.
It could go either way
The last anti-Brexit petition was found to have been spammed by tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of fake signatories.
This will be no different, and probably far worse.
So no. No risk at all.
I think it;s a master-stroke...
Thus, battle lines are crystal clear before Parliament meets.
That is what "Do or Die" actually meant. Sometimes it is just a cigar.
It's clear Boris wants an election so all they need to do is avoid triggering one.
Aug 21-26, 2019
A-
Quinnipiac University
Trump Buttigieg +9
Trump Harris +11
Trump Warren +12
Trump Sanders +14
Trump Biden +16
Now I know it's early, and we shouldn't read too much etc etc but there is no way the two party vote should be near Even money the pair.
I think one thing we’ve discovered from the last two years is how ancient our constitution looks when there isn’t a Gvt majority. The last time this was commonplace was more than 100 years ago, on a different time and when the very idea of democracy (as we now view it) was up for debate. Either way, we’re going to have to tidy it up.
similar to that used in the direct mail industry. What you can do is sign twice with the same email address and different names as many couples share their email address.
hahaha...who does she think she is?
Remainers have a problem, defying HMQ might lead to unintended consequences
I am very equivocal about brexit. I voted remain but i strongly believe the vote must be honoured. My reading of my friends, family and colleagues who voted similarly is that they increasingly feel the same way. This is the wave Johnson is trying to ride, so far quite succesfully...
The problem with standing on an anti-Parliament ticket is that it just looks like you want your turn at having a snout in the trough.
(Incidentally Byronic, the English language was not born in “these islands” but on the mainland, in what is now northern Germany/southern Jutland.)
And it is certainly far from hopeful. The best approach is an extension and a deal. You seem unable to differentiate between what someone thinks is the situation to what they want as the situation.
I suspect that you are simply repeating a comforting talking point so you do not have to face how split the country is, and how many people are strongly opposed to your position. (And, yes, Remainers also indulge in this sort of self-deception).
Now, if he gets an immediate election, he'll probably win on the back of an energized and united right. If he loses power and a caretaker Corbyn extends or scraps Brexit, he gets to fight a Labour Party despised by its working class bedrock in an election early next year.
All these scenarios carry risk, but being forced to carry the can for an extension would have been politically fatal.
I think Sanders is ahead of Warren given ALL the polls we have right now but it's harder to tell than the fact Biden is likely still out ahead by at least 9 points or so.
If Boris can win an election promising No Deal then fair enough, the British people will have made an informed choice (or as informed as we get in our democracy).
But I suspect the reason he has consistently opposed an election is that he knows it will be difficult for him to win.
Do you have a problem with that and if so why?
Imagine Major, Blair, Cameron, Brown and May all going to see HMQ together and urging the prorogation be halted.
Quinnipac have a great record lately too.
Do you actually think people were sitting around ready to kick off these fake posts at a moments notice.
Parliament won't as it makes more sense for Cooper Letwin 3 to be implemented.
You are happy to conjure up extra-statutory convention as something legally enforceable when you so wish, yet disregard Parliament's intent when it suits you. You make ridiculous argument after ridiculous argument in favour of Leave positions, while pretending to be a Remain supporters, apparently in the belief that will give your dumb arguments more weight. Why?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/immigration/take-the-land-president-trump-wants-a-border-wall-he-wants-it-black-and-he-wants-it-by-election-day/2019/08/27/37b80018-c821-11e9-a4f3-c081a126de70_story.html
President Trump is so eager to complete hundreds of miles of border fence ahead of the 2020 presidential election that he has directed aides to fast-track billions of dollars’ worth of construction contracts, aggressively seize private land and disregard environmental rules, according to current and former officials involved with the project.
He also has told worried subordinates that he will pardon them of any potential wrongdoing should they have to break laws to get the barriers built quickly, those officials said....
Does this matter?
Joe Biden 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Pete Buttigieg 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Kamala Harris 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Bernie Sanders 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Elizabeth Warren 14 ✓ ✓ ✓
Cory Booker 11 ✓ ✓ ✓
Beto O’Rourke 9 ✓ ✓ ✓
Amy Klobuchar 6 ✓ ✓ ✓
Julián Castro 5 ✓ ✓ ✓
Andrew Yang 5 ✓ ✓ ✓
Tom Steyer is closist to 11th, and it looks like my speculative £2 on Marianne Williamson at 500-1 or some such will fall.
Tulsi Gabbard also due to miss out on a debate spot. Though I must thank her for pushing Harris' price right out.
The rest have no polls and no donors. (Well Gilibrand has 1 qualifying poll).
I suspect the DNC will be happy to have the field down to what looks like 10.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/459091-lawyers-evidence-shows-epstein-death-far-more-consistent-with