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I've zero relations to the bus and am not "all leavers".TOPPING said:
LOL - now all leavers want to burn the house down in order to rebuild it anew.Philip_Thompson said:
Stability and chaos are both double-edged swords. Being sclerotic is a form of stability and it is not what we should seek.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need stability not chaos with no dealPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? When as you have said "Brexit is not the driver in this decision"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that is always the consequence of losing a big manfacturer. While brexit is not the driver in this decision in the publics eyes it may well be.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
We need TM's deal passed fast and lift some of the doom
Why pander to those who are trying to cause fear when it is not real. We need a deal if a deal is right for us, not because the optics of real life changes happen to look a particular way.
On the other hand rapid technological and economic growth comes with it an amount of chaos.
Jesus fucking christ this was all on the side of the bus, was it?
I've been a classic liberal (aka Libertarian) all my life. I've never once believed that staying in the same old 'house' and to prevent progress and the chaos it brings is the way to grow for the future.0 -
Building anew was not on their radar.TOPPING said:
LOL - now all leavers want to burn the house down in order to rebuild it anew.Philip_Thompson said:
Stability and chaos are both double-edged swords. Being sclerotic is a form of stability and it is not what we should seek.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need stability not chaos with no dealPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? When as you have said "Brexit is not the driver in this decision"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that is always the consequence of losing a big manfacturer. While brexit is not the driver in this decision in the publics eyes it may well be.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
We need TM's deal passed fast and lift some of the doom
Why pander to those who are trying to cause fear when it is not real. We need a deal if a deal is right for us, not because the optics of real life changes happen to look a particular way.
On the other hand rapid technological and economic growth comes with it an amount of chaos.
Jesus fucking christ this was all on the side of the bus, was it?
The concept of creative destruction is most cited by those that are merely destroyers and, in reality, indifferent to any creation that might follow in their wake.0 -
Let it go mate.Brom said:
I love the way the FBPE crowd are ignoring the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit, the fact no jobs are moving to the EU and the fact even after the vote they decided to keep their EU HQ in the UK. Unfortunately car manufacturing is an industry in severe decline, it's just a shame that those desperate for project fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.0 -
Welcome back Mr Woolie!dyedwoolie said:
Passing visitMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Woolie, welcome back
Mr. Alistair, ah. Probably should've checked that, but thank you for the information nevertheless.
I'm into chess these days, playing lots of tournaments but new political toys are exciting
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I am claiming Tribbles in case the explosion if support I expect materialuses_Anazina_ said:
Just to claim coining Tiggers – I was the first person on here to use it. Glad to see it is catching on.dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
Bounce!! 0 -
Welcome to PB, Mr. Engineer.0
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I hadn't realised that Chaos With Ed Miliband was supposed to be a compliment!TOPPING said:
LOL - now all leavers want to burn the house down in order to rebuild it anew.Philip_Thompson said:
Stability and chaos are both double-edged swords. Being sclerotic is a form of stability and it is not what we should seek.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need stability not chaos with no dealPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? When as you have said "Brexit is not the driver in this decision"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that is always the consequence of losing a big manfacturer. While brexit is not the driver in this decision in the publics eyes it may well be.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
We need TM's deal passed fast and lift some of the doom
Why pander to those who are trying to cause fear when it is not real. We need a deal if a deal is right for us, not because the optics of real life changes happen to look a particular way.
On the other hand rapid technological and economic growth comes with it an amount of chaos.
Jesus fucking christ this was all on the side of the bus, was it?0 -
We are distinguishing between reality and how reality will be interpreted, which are quite different things. The latter is much more important in terms of influencing political outcomes.Philip_Thompson said:
Well precisely.kjohnw said:
The Japanese news on Honda and Nissan has more to do with the EU offering zero tariffs (may be to spite the UK for brexit) and the Japanese would rather manufacture in Japan than the UK . If the zero tariff agreement had happened without Brexit I dare say the Japanese companies would still be relocating back to Japan anyway.Sean_F said:
I appreciate that, and it's very damaging, but it remains the case that net employment growth has proved to be very strong. It's not like the early eighties.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
Honda are continuing to invest in the UK where it makes sense, highly technical F1 jobs for instance. Car manufacturers in cleaner technologies, or premium vehicles are continuing to invest in the UK.
Lets not run around like headless chickens pandering to fearmongers and make our decisions based on what is rational.
I'm shocked and a little bit disturbed by the number of people saying things like "this has nothing to do with Brexit but it doesn't matter".
This is by far the worst news Brexit has suffered. The evening news will be filled of teary-eyed Leavers streaming out of the Swindon plant bemoaning their fate.
It could be terminal.0 -
Sure, but brexit won't help inward investment to keep the lights on. And May's daft cap is no good for consumers who give a monkeys about what price they're paying for electricity either. Neither will any potential nationalisation plans by Corbyn...ralphmalph said:The legacy of George Osborne - The highest electricity prices for industry in the EU.
https://www.constructionproducts.org.uk/news-media-events/blog/2017/june/a-comparison-of-electricity-prices-between-the-uk-and-eu/
A plague on everyone's house !0 -
A possibility for the long term future. Something I'd rather we be thinking of than clinging to the past.Theuniondivvie said:
This economic trade deal with the USA of which you speak, an actual thing or a just possibly if Liam Fox doesn't fuck up and the unicorns don't have equine flu thing?Philip_Thompson said:
So getting an economic trade deal with the USA and avoiding pending US tariffs on EU exports would help the Civic more than a deal with the EU?Theuniondivvie said:Brexit or no, it's a sickener.
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1097517668238802944
Seems like an argument in favour of exiting without tying ourselves into a permanent customs union or backstop.0 -
Mr. City, I only know the vaguest part of the Williams history myself.
Slightly surprisingly, I'm into history, and F1, but not the history of F1.0 -
I like what you've all done with the placeSandpit said:
Welcome back Mr Woolie!dyedwoolie said:
Passing visitMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Woolie, welcome back
Mr. Alistair, ah. Probably should've checked that, but thank you for the information nevertheless.
I'm into chess these days, playing lots of tournaments but new political toys are exciting0 -
You are hoping their influence will become Heffalumpine?dyedwoolie said:
I am claiming Tribbles in case the explosion if support I expect materialuses_Anazina_ said:
Just to claim coining Tiggers – I was the first person on here to use it. Glad to see it is catching on.dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
Bounce!!0 -
Have you got a source for that "Honda CEO says..." comment?Brom said:
I love the way the FBPE crowd are ignoring the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit, the fact no jobs are moving to the EU and the fact even after the vote they decided to keep their EU HQ in the UK. Unfortunately car manufacturing is an industry in severe decline, it's just a shame that those desperate for project fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
Genuinely interested - and can't find it.0 -
Brilliant.brokenwheel said:0 -
Should have been the People's Independent Group._Anazina_ said:
Just to claim coining Tiggers – I was the first person on here to use it. Glad to see it is catching on.dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
Bounce!!
Piglets would have been more apt.0 -
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
Jezza not the only one having problems over Jewish issues...
Polish PM cancels Israel visit after Netanyahu said ‘Poles cooperated with the Nazis’
Poland's prime minister has canceled plans to send a delegation to meeting in Jerusalem after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Poles 'collaborated with the Nazis'.
This was later followed by the acting Israeli foreign minister repeating Netanyahu's words, and adding that Poles 'sucked anti-Semitism from their mothers' milk.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716483/Poland-cancel-visit-Israel-amid-new-Holocaust-spat.html0 -
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
At least 354,141 people think a No Deal Brexit is a good idea:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963
Map:
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=2299630 -
I resigned about 18 months after Corbyn won the leadershipbigjohnowls said:
When were you a member?OllyT said:
Danny 565 and BJO personify the reasons many of us have left the Labour Party.felix said:
He is on the money but both Danny 565 and Bjo prefer sneering at the Angela Smith gaffe. It's so much easier than a morsel of reflection .Tissue_Price said:0 -
How to win friends and influence people.FrancisUrquhart said:Jezza not the only one having problems over Jewish issues...
Polish PM cancels Israel visit after Netanyahu said ‘Poles cooperated with the Nazis’
Poland's prime minister has canceled plans to send a delegation to meeting in Jerusalem after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Poles 'collaborated with the Nazis'.
This was later followed by the acting Israeli foreign minister repeating Netanyahu's words, and adding that Poles 'sucked anti-Semitism from their mothers' milk.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716483/Poland-cancel-visit-Israel-amid-new-Holocaust-spat.html0 -
This is just another example of the press not having a clue.Theuniondivvie said:Brexit or no, it's a sickener.
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1097517668238802944
JLR sell more than the F-Pace in the USA, they sell Range Rovers and other Jags. Honda only make the Civic at Swindon and they make 100,000 in total.
JLR sales 2017 for all models in the USA were 163,000.
As I have said on here Trumps tariffs if implemented are far more damaging to the UK car industry than a no deal Brexit.0 -
This is absolutely bang on, as anyone who has spent any time in Swindon will know.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
Swindon was a company town once (GWR) and it's not that far off right now. The town has survived on Honda - the growth beyond Thamesdown Drive, at Wichelstowe, and increasingly to the east, has been fuelled by it and its support industries. You only have to look at the rest of the Wiltshire towns, then add in a dose of post-industrial malaise, to see how Swindon would be otherwise.
There is still a small plant for BMW in the town (it's the subsidiary site for the Mini). If BMW pull out then it's game over. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/bmw-boss-reiterates-mini-pull-out-brexit-threat0 -
Seriously, mood music suggests SDP on steroids_Anazina_ said:
You are hoping their influence will become Heffalumpine?dyedwoolie said:
I am claiming Tribbles in case the explosion if support I expect materialuses_Anazina_ said:
Just to claim coining Tiggers – I was the first person on here to use it. Glad to see it is catching on.dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
Bounce!!0 -
Depends whether you think that each and every component of the car is built up from the raw materials exclusively in the UK.Floater said:
So - does that not rather blow a hole in the "it's because of Brexit" theory?eek said:
Yep - right hand drive and US models...Floater said:
Are you saying that the Civics made here were not for the EU market?ralphmalph said:
only other plant is in Turkey, this plant makes Civics for continental EU. The Civics made in the UK were for RoW with Japan and USA being the main markets.FrancisUrquhart said:
If that is correct, how many plants does Honda have across Europe?AndyJS said:Swindon MP: "Honda decision nothing to do with Brexit, since all European production will be moving to Japan by 2021".
https://europe.autonews.com/article/20180316/CUTAWAY01/180229801/suppliers-to-the-new-honda-civic
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Honda is closing it's plant in Swindon and Brexit has been cited as the final straw. Look squirrel!ralphmalph said:The legacy of George Osborne - The highest electricity prices for industry in the EU.
https://www.constructionproducts.org.uk/news-media-events/blog/2017/june/a-comparison-of-electricity-prices-between-the-uk-and-eu/0 -
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
SeanT said:RoyalBlue said:Philip_Thompson said:kjohnw said:Sean_F said:SeanT said:Sean_F said:Philip_Thompson said:Recidivist said:
Are you mental? They announced a date of 2022 and we all know there is every chance it might not even happen. It's pretty sad for RoyalBlue to get excited about people losing their jobs but for those who are still crying about the referendum result its hardly surprising. Not to mention a rather more significant news story today that will take all the headlines you may have heard about.nunuone said:SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
The Japanese nto Japan anyway.
Agreed. I don't understand why ultra-Leavers don't see this. It's those images that will tell, not the minutiae of whether Brexit was 10% responsible, or 80% responsible, for this decision. The sight of a town losing half its jobs overnight will be reminiscent of the worst times of the early 80s.
The optics are disastrous for LEAVE. I can see polls switching quite severely now, towards REMAIN. What if, a week before Brexit Day, polls are showing the public split 60/40 or even 65/35 in favour of REMAIN?
Of course Ryton, Longbridge and Luton closing were nothing to do with being an EU member
Your neurotic flip flopping is embarrassing to those on the Leave side. Trying to connect a Honda plant potentially closing to the Brexit vote and then assume millions will change their minds. If the entire Brexit debate was based around a Honda factory in Swindon then I must have missed it.0 -
Mr. T, that 10%/80% difference is not minutiae, it's the heart of the story.
I do agree with you, however, that it'll play badly for those who want us to leave the EU. Whether that's justified or not is another matter.
Interesting that Wolff reckons a no deal scenario would have a severe impact on F1 in the UK, given a clear majority of teams and their suppliers are based here. At first glance, the suggestion sounds a bit odd, to me, at least.0 -
bigjohnowls said:
And the reason many hundreds of thousands have joined.OllyT said:
Danny 565 and BJO personify the reasons many of us have left the Labour Party.felix said:
He is on the money but both Danny 565 and Bjo prefer sneering at the Angela Smith gaffe. It's so much easier than a morsel of reflection .Tissue_Price said:
By hoovering up every far left groupie and trot in the country. It will be nowhere near enough to win a GE but I'm not sure many of you really care.0 -
Unlikely - and even more so in context...MaxPB said:Very disappointing and absolutely avoidable news on Honda. The blame lies with the idiot Liam Fox who should have been doing much more to get the Japanese on board for continuing the existing terms of trade for a few years and to Parliament who should have voted through the WA. Hopefully once we get a deal Honda can be convinced to reverse the decision.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/18/japan-almost-cancelled-brexit-talks-high-handed-letter-liam-fox-jeremy-hunt
Japanese officials have reportedly accused Jeremy Hunt and Liam Fox of taking a “high-handed” approach towards a post-Brexit free trade deal, and briefly considered cancelling bilateral talks due to take place this week...0 -
So you didnt like the 2017 ManifestoOllyT said:
I resigned about 18 months after Corbyn won the leadershipbigjohnowls said:
When were you a member?OllyT said:
Danny 565 and BJO personify the reasons many of us have left the Labour Party.felix said:
He is on the money but both Danny 565 and Bjo prefer sneering at the Angela Smith gaffe. It's so much easier than a morsel of reflection .Tissue_Price said:0 -
Israel is now unofficially working with the Gulf states (Qatar excepted) as part of their proxy war with Iran. Netanyahu knows that this makes Israel more secure than it has ever been, so he can afford some historical truth-telling. I’m not sure it’s a good long-term strategy.FrancisUrquhart said:Jezza not the only one having problems over Jewish issues...
Polish PM cancels Israel visit after Netanyahu said ‘Poles cooperated with the Nazis’
Poland's prime minister has canceled plans to send a delegation to meeting in Jerusalem after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Poles 'collaborated with the Nazis'.
This was later followed by the acting Israeli foreign minister repeating Netanyahu's words, and adding that Poles 'sucked anti-Semitism from their mothers' milk.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716483/Poland-cancel-visit-Israel-amid-new-Holocaust-spat.html0 -
You should really direct that comment to the #FBPE mob on Twitter, who are really starting to sound like they are celebrating job losses._Anazina_ said:
Let it go mate.Brom said:
I love the way the FBPE crowd are ignoring the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit, the fact no jobs are moving to the EU and the fact even after the vote they decided to keep their EU HQ in the UK. Unfortunately car manufacturing is an industry in severe decline, it's just a shame that those desperate for project fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.0 -
And presumably whether the finished cars are sold to RoW under trade deals we have thanks to the EU which at the moment could cease to apply in 6 weeks?Ishmael_Z said:
Depends whether you think that each and every component of the car is built up from the raw materials exclusively in the UK.Floater said:
So - does that not rather blow a hole in the "it's because of Brexit" theory?eek said:
Yep - right hand drive and US models...Floater said:
Are you saying that the Civics made here were not for the EU market?ralphmalph said:
only other plant is in Turkey, this plant makes Civics for continental EU. The Civics made in the UK were for RoW with Japan and USA being the main markets.FrancisUrquhart said:
If that is correct, how many plants does Honda have across Europe?AndyJS said:Swindon MP: "Honda decision nothing to do with Brexit, since all European production will be moving to Japan by 2021".
https://europe.autonews.com/article/20180316/CUTAWAY01/180229801/suppliers-to-the-new-honda-civic0 -
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
Not the current kind of chaos - otherwise Venezuela would be the world's leading economy.Philip_Thompson said:
Stability and chaos are both double-edged swords. Being sclerotic is a form of stability and it is not what we should seek.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need stability not chaos with no dealPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? When as you have said "Brexit is not the driver in this decision"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that is always the consequence of losing a big manfacturer. While brexit is not the driver in this decision in the publics eyes it may well be.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
We need TM's deal passed fast and lift some of the doom
Why pander to those who are trying to cause fear when it is not real. We need a deal if a deal is right for us, not because the optics of real life changes happen to look a particular way.
On the other hand rapid technological and economic growth comes with it an amount of chaos.0 -
If unemployment was actually rising, as it was in the early eighties, then I think you might see that sort of switch. This is undeniably bad news, but I don't think the impact will be as dramatic as your last paragraph suggests.SeanT said:
Agreed. I don't understand why ultra-Leavers don't see this. It's those images that will tell, not the minutiae of whether Brexit was 10% responsible, or 80% responsible, for this decision. The sight of a town losing half its jobs overnight will be reminiscent of the worst times of the early 80s.RoyalBlue said:
We are distinguishing between reality and how reality will be interpreted, which are quite different things. The latter is much more important in terms of influencing political outcomes.Philip_Thompson said:
Well precisely.kjohnw said:
The Japanese nto Japan anyway.Sean_F said:
I appreciate that, and it's very damaging, but it remains the case that net employment growth has proved to be very strong. It's not like the early eighties.SeanT said:
You do reaSean_F said:
And, will ore jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
Honda are continuing to invest in the UK where it makes sense, highly technical F1 jobs for instance. Car manufacturers in cleaner technologies, or premium vehicles are continuing to invest in the UK.
Lets not run around like headless chickens pandering to fearmongers and make our decisions based on what is rational.
I'm shocked and a little bit disturbed by the number of people saying things like "this has nothing to do with Brexit but it doesn't matter".
This is by far the worst news Brexit has suffered. The evening news will be filled of teary-eyed Leavers streaming out of the Swindon plant bemoaning their fate.
It could be terminal.
The optics are disastrous for LEAVE. I can see polls switching quite severely now, towards REMAIN. What if, a week before Brexit Day, polls are showing the public split 60/40 or even 65/35 in favour of REMAIN?0 -
He might be at odds with much of his party over Brexit (though notably he did vote for the Deal) but he is a former Health Secretary, Education Secretary, Home Secretary, Chancellor and Lord Chancellor, for whom there is a great deal of affection and respect in the ranks. Therefore his unrepentant pro-Europeanism is widely accepted by the membership (though not to the extent of being prepared to vote for him to be leader, natch). He's going nowhere other than the Lords.dyedwoolie said:
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
Indeed. As I was saying earlier, Kendall stopped tweeting on Friday, which for her feed is unusual.AlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.0 -
Oy! Are you calling the Lovely Liz a chatterbox?IanB2 said:
Indeed. As I was saying earlier, Kendall stopped tweeting on Friday, which for her feed is unusual.AlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
Revolutionaries - not so different from Corbyn.TOPPING said:
LOL - now all leavers want to burn the house down in order to rebuild it anew.Philip_Thompson said:
Stability and chaos are both double-edged swords. Being sclerotic is a form of stability and it is not what we should seek.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need stability not chaos with no dealPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? When as you have said "Brexit is not the driver in this decision"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that is always the consequence of losing a big manfacturer. While brexit is not the driver in this decision in the publics eyes it may well be.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
We need TM's deal passed fast and lift some of the doom
Why pander to those who are trying to cause fear when it is not real. We need a deal if a deal is right for us, not because the optics of real life changes happen to look a particular way.
On the other hand rapid technological and economic growth comes with it an amount of chaos.
Jesus fucking christ this was all on the side of the bus, was it?0 -
Gone on half term hols?IanB2 said:
Indeed. As I was saying earlier, Kendall stopped tweeting on Friday, which for her feed is unusual.AlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
Whatever the detailed implications, there is no getting away from the fact that Brexit is tarnishing Britain with a very anti-business tint, not least because we simply cannot answer any of their questions about future arrangements. At the very least it is obvious that government gives providing stability and certainty to business a very low priority.Mexicanpete said:
Honda is closing it's plant in Swindon and Brexit has been cited as the final straw. Look squirrel!ralphmalph said:The legacy of George Osborne - The highest electricity prices for industry in the EU.
https://www.constructionproducts.org.uk/news-media-events/blog/2017/june/a-comparison-of-electricity-prices-between-the-uk-and-eu/0 -
The survey is ten days old - Opinium data is more recent.Tykejohnno said:
Shame a new grouping /party comes along.AndyJS said:LDs get their best poll rating for a long time:
"@ElectionMapsUK
Follow Follow @ElectionMapsUK
More
Westminster Voting Intention
CON: 38% (+2)
LAB: 35% (-1)
LDM: 13% (+1)
GRN: 5% (=)
UKIP: 5% (-1)
Via @BMGResearch, 4-8 Feb.
Changes w/ 8-11 Jan."0 -
It's a stretch but I can see him doing it if no deal transpiresTissue_Price said:
He might be at odds with much of his party over Brexit (though notably he did vote for the Deal) but he is a former Health Secretary, Education Secretary, Home Secretary, Chancellor and Lord Chancellor, for whom there is a great deal of affection and respect in the ranks. Therefore his unrepentant pro-Europeanism is widely accepted by the membership (though not to the extent of being prepared to vote for him to be leader, natch). He's going nowhere other than the Lords.dyedwoolie said:
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
When you lose a major manufacturer and its supply chain you tend to trade good, well paid, full-time skilled unionised jobs for lower-paid jobs in sectors like retail, which also have crap working hours and conditions. I would not be as sanguine as you.Sean_F said:
If unemployment was actually rising, as it was in the early eighties, then I think you might see that sort of switch. This is undeniably bad news, but I don't think the impact will be as dramatic as your last paragraph suggests.SeanT said:RoyalBlue said:
We are distinguishing between reality and how reality will be interpreted, which are quite different things. The latter is much more important in terms of influencing political outcomes.Philip_Thompson said:
Well precisely.kjohnw said:
The Japanese nto Japan anyway.Sean_F said:
I appreciate that, and it's very damaging, but it remains the case that net employment growth has proved to be very strong. It's not like the early eighties.SeanT said:
You do reaSean_F said:
And, will ore jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
Honda are continuing to invest in the UK where it makes sense, highly technical F1 jobs for instance. Car manufacturers in cleaner technologies, or premium vehicles are continuing to invest in the UK.
Lets not run around like headless chickens pandering to fearmongers and make our decisions based on what is rational.
I'm shocked and a little bit disturbed by the number of people saying things like "this has nothing to do with Brexit but it doesn't matter".
This is by far the worst news Brexit has suffered. The evening news will be filled of teary-eyed Leavers streaming out of the Swindon plant bemoaning their fate.
It could be terminal.
The optics are disastrous for LEAVE. I can see polls switching quite severely now, towards REMAIN. What if, a week before Brexit Day, polls are showing the public split 60/40 or even 65/35 in favour of REMAIN?0 -
Not so sure about that. As far as I can tell, pretty much Netanyahu's sole reason for doing anything is that it increases his re-election chances (all the more so right now given that there's an election coming up). Picking fights with other countries in this way feeds into his strongman image; he's basically a small-time Trump. Agree that it's rotten strategy for the country.RoyalBlue said:
Israel is now unofficially working with the Gulf states (Qatar excepted) as part of their proxy war with Iran. Netanyahu knows that this makes Israel more secure than it has ever been, so he can afford some historical truth-telling. I’m not sure it’s a good long-term strategy.FrancisUrquhart said:Jezza not the only one having problems over Jewish issues...
Polish PM cancels Israel visit after Netanyahu said ‘Poles cooperated with the Nazis’
Poland's prime minister has canceled plans to send a delegation to meeting in Jerusalem after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Poles 'collaborated with the Nazis'.
This was later followed by the acting Israeli foreign minister repeating Netanyahu's words, and adding that Poles 'sucked anti-Semitism from their mothers' milk.'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716483/Poland-cancel-visit-Israel-amid-new-Holocaust-spat.html0 -
Brom said:SeanT said:RoyalBlue said:Philip_Thompson said:kjohnw said:Sean_F said:SeanT said:Sean_F said:Philip_Thompson said:
When did I ‘get excited’ about people losing their jobs? As for crying about the referendum result, I voted and campaigned for leave.Recidivist said:
Are you mental? They announced a date of 2022 and we all know there is every chance it might not even happen. It's pretty sad for RoyalBlue to get excited about people losing their jobs but for those who are still crying about the referendum result its hardly surprising. Not to mention a rather more significant news story today that will take all the headlines you may have heard about.nunuone said:SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
The Japanese nto Japan anyway.
Agreed. I don't understand why ultra-Leavers don't see this. It's those images that will tell, not the minutiae of whether Brexit was 10% responsible, or 80% responsible, for this decision. The sight of a town losing half its jobs overnight will be reminiscent of the worst times of the early 80s.
The optics are disastrous for LEAVE. I can see polls switching quite severely now, towards REMAIN. What if, a week before Brexit Day, polls are showing the public split 60/40 or even 65/35 in favour of REMAIN?
Of course Ryton, Longbridge and Luton closing were nothing to do with being an EU member
Your neurotic flip flopping is embarrassing to those on the Leave side. Trying to connect a Honda plant potentially closing to the Brexit vote and then assume millions will change their minds. If the entire Brexit debate was based around a Honda factory in Swindon then I must have missed it.
Posts like yours make me wonder if I was right.0 -
How very dare you!!!dyedwoolie said:
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
BBC to make dramas for China for first time as it remakes Life on Mars set in 1990s Beijing
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/02/18/bbc-make-dramas-china-first-time-remakes-life-mars-set-1990s/
Hmmm...not sure "Fire Up The Quattro" will quite work in that market.0 -
Don't be silly. Trainers are perfectly fine.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.0 -
Nigelb said:
Unlikely - and even more so in context...MaxPB said:Very disappointing and absolutely avoidable news on Honda. The blame lies with the idiot Liam Fox who should have been doing much more to get the Japanese on board for continuing the existing terms of trade for a few years and to Parliament who should have voted through the WA. Hopefully once we get a deal Honda can be convinced to reverse the decision.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/18/japan-almost-cancelled-brexit-talks-high-handed-letter-liam-fox-jeremy-hunt
Japanese officials have reportedly accused Jeremy Hunt and Liam Fox of taking a “high-handed” approach towards a post-Brexit free trade deal, and briefly considered cancelling bilateral talks due to take place this week...
At what stage can be get rid of these fucking clowns and insert someone vaguely sensible in government? The Tiggers could be it if they can shave off Labour's pro-business right, the Tories' sane, left flank, and mop up the Liberals.0 -
For the first time in my life I didn't vote in 2017. I was never one of those who fell for the idea that Corbyn and Milne were anti-brexit.bigjohnowls said:
So you didnt like the 2017 ManifestoOllyT said:
I resigned about 18 months after Corbyn won the leadershipbigjohnowls said:
When were you a member?OllyT said:
Danny 565 and BJO personify the reasons many of us have left the Labour Party.felix said:
He is on the money but both Danny 565 and Bjo prefer sneering at the Angela Smith gaffe. It's so much easier than a morsel of reflection .Tissue_Price said:0 -
Speaking to a grain merchant over the weekend - not a single post-March 29th grain vessel has been traded. No one is prepared to take on the potential liability of tariffs in the event of no deal.IanB2 said:
Whatever the detailed implications, there is no getting away from the fact that Brexit is tarnishing Britain with a very anti-business tint, not least because we simply cannot answer any of their questions about future arrangements. At the very least it is obvious that government gives providing stability and certainty to business a very low priority.Mexicanpete said:
Honda is closing it's plant in Swindon and Brexit has been cited as the final straw. Look squirrel!ralphmalph said:The legacy of George Osborne - The highest electricity prices for industry in the EU.
https://www.constructionproducts.org.uk/news-media-events/blog/2017/june/a-comparison-of-electricity-prices-between-the-uk-and-eu/0 -
Slightly left of CenterParcsFrancisUrquhart said:
Gone on half term hols?IanB2 said:
Indeed. As I was saying earlier, Kendall stopped tweeting on Friday, which for her feed is unusual.AlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
Yep. He’s Ken, he’s always been Ken and he’s served his party and country very well over several decades. He’s always had his own views on Europe, but that doesn’t really distract from his excellent work elsewhere. May he enjoy his retirement sitting on the red benches.Tissue_Price said:
He might be at odds with much of his party over Brexit (though notably he did vote for the Deal) but he is a former Health Secretary, Education Secretary, Home Secretary, Chancellor and Lord Chancellor, for whom there is a great deal of affection and respect in the ranks. Therefore his unrepentant pro-Europeanism is widely accepted by the membership (though not to the extent of being prepared to vote for him to be leader, natch). He's going nowhere other than the Lords.dyedwoolie said:
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
Because of the gang of 7 it's safe to say the Honda news will be a minor story tonight. For those FBPE supporters linking it to Brexit it seems Chuka has scored a bit of an own goal by crowding out the press coverage.0
-
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.0 -
Hear hear. One of the few big beasts still in the HofC at this time of flimflammery.Sandpit said:
Yep. He’s Ken, he’s always been Ken and he’s served his party and country very well over several decades. He’s always had his own views on Europe, but that doesn’t really distract from his excellent work elsewhere. May he enjoy his retirement sitting on the red benches.Tissue_Price said:
He might be at odds with much of his party over Brexit (though notably he did vote for the Deal) but he is a former Health Secretary, Education Secretary, Home Secretary, Chancellor and Lord Chancellor, for whom there is a great deal of affection and respect in the ranks. Therefore his unrepentant pro-Europeanism is widely accepted by the membership (though not to the extent of being prepared to vote for him to be leader, natch). He's going nowhere other than the Lords.dyedwoolie said:
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
AndyJS said:
At least 354,141 people think a No Deal Brexit is a good idea:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963
Map:
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=229963
The usual furinner hating crackpot areas.0 -
A capitalist pig would say that.Endillion said:
Don't be silly. Trainers are perfectly fine.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.0 -
If you've spent £700 on them....Endillion said:
Don't be silly. Trainers are perfectly fine.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.0 -
/Thanks. Long time lurker.../RobD said:
Welcome to PB. I wonder how much the new EU-Japan trade deal had to do with it. I think they can now export from Japan tariff free.AnotherEngineer said:
Does this Honda "confirmation" actually mention Brexit, or is it actually about the threat of new tariffs from the US / Trump? That would make more sense given the market for Swindon.ralphmalph said:
I posted that I could not understand the EU position in not locking in the trade deal early. This will also hurt their suppliers to Honda based on the continent as well.nico67 said:Confirmed by Honda . The threat of new tariffs as the UK leaves the EU was the final straw .
They have a cut of your nose to spite your face brexit strategy.
They can only export tariff free to the EU - I'm not sure what tariffs the US has with Japan? Remember - Civics made in Swindon aren't going to the EU.
There might be some rules of origin involved in selling the completed vehicle but there aren't any tariffs on car parts, so I wouldn't think the suppliers were the problem.
0 -
Well Ms Berger thinks your party is now institutionally anti-Semitic...but carry on. I honestly never thought I would see the Labour Party described as such, not least by one of its own.bigjohnowls said:
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.0 -
Scrapheap_as_was said:
How very dare you!!!dyedwoolie said:
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
To be fair to Ken I recall sitting in a pub beer garden the day after the 97 election and said if the Tories picked Ken they'd be back in 2 elections, a generation if not. Wasn't far outScrapheap_as_was said:
How very dare you!!!dyedwoolie said:
He's a silly old buffer, he will do it for the heck of it in retirementTissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.0 -
That's a 'no' then.Benpointer said:
Have you got a source for that "...the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit..." comment?Brom said:
I love the way the FBPE crowd are ignoring the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit, the fact no jobs are moving to the EU and the fact even after the vote they decided to keep their EU HQ in the UK. Unfortunately car manufacturing is an industry in severe decline, it's just a shame that those desperate for project fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.0 -
And there's not going to be a lot of retail demand in Swindon if 3,500 people have suddenly lost their monthly pay packet. The place has been struggling as it is (look at the Canal Walk area and the streets around it)._Anazina_ said:When you lose a major manufacturer and its supply chain you tend to trade good, well paid, full-time skilled unionised jobs for lower-paid jobs in sectors like retail, which also have crap working hours and conditions. I would not be as sanguine as you.
0 -
Has she resigned from the new party where one of her 6 other defectors has already had to apologise for her funny tinge comment?FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Ms Berger thinks your party is now institutionally anti-Semitic...but carry on. I honestly never thought I would see the Labour Party described as such, not least by one of its own.bigjohnowls said:
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.0 -
There's still a lot of resistance to the idea it's even possible. Anecdote alert, but just today so done commented to me they find the allegations hard to believe because of what labour stand for, that they could understand it of the Tories. And I know this person voted Tory more than labour!FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Ms Berger thinks your party is now institutionally anti-Semitic...but carry on. I honestly never thought I would see the Labour Party described as such, not least by one of its own.bigjohnowls said:
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.
0 -
And that affects the charge that Labour is institutionally anti-semitic how exactly?bigjohnowls said:
Has she resigned from the new party where one of her 6 other defectors has already had to apologise for her funny tinge comment?FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Ms Berger thinks your party is now institutionally anti-Semitic...but carry on. I honestly never thought I would see the Labour Party described as such, not least by one of its own.bigjohnowls said:
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.0 -
Are you not in the slightest concerned? If I was a member of a party, whose members were leaving citing threats of violence against them by their own members due to their religion, I would be extremely concerned what the hell was going on.bigjohnowls said:
Has she resigned from the new party where one of her 6 other defectors has already had to apologise for her funny tinge comment?FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Ms Berger thinks your party is now institutionally anti-Semitic...but carry on. I honestly never thought I would see the Labour Party described as such, not least by one of its own.bigjohnowls said:
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.0 -
By the way, American issues worth keeping an eye on over the next month, I think its going to go a bit 'the empire strikes back'0
-
You are missing the point.Brom said:
I love the way the FBPE crowd are ignoring the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit, the fact no jobs are moving to the EU and the fact even after the vote they decided to keep their EU HQ in the UK. Unfortunately car manufacturing is an industry in severe decline, it's just a shame that those desperate for project fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
The Brexit crowd gained traction over the years by blaming all sorts of things on the EU regardless of whether it was true or not.
Even if Honda or Nissan has nothing to do with Brexit you are about to reap what you sowed. People are going to believe it was because of Brexit and that's what really matters.0 -
Over the past year, though, growth in employment has been almost all in full-time work, and wages have rising quite strongly._Anazina_ said:
When you lose a major manufacturer and its supply chain you tend to trade good, well paid, full-time skilled unionised jobs for lower-paid jobs in sectors like retail, which also have crap working hours and conditions. I would not be as sanguine as you.Sean_F said:
If unemSeanT said:RoyalBlue said:
We are distinguishing between reality and how reality will be interpreted, which are quite different things. The latter is much more important in terms of influencing political outcomes.Philip_Thompson said:kjohnw said:
The Japanese nto Japan anyway.Sean_F said:
I appreciate that, and it's very damaging, but it remains the case that net employment growth has proved to be very strong. It's not like the early eighties.SeanT said:
You do reaSean_F said:
And, will ore jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
I'm shocked and a little bit disturbed by the number of people saying things like "this has nothing to do with Brexit but it doesn't matter".
This is by far the worst news Brexit has suffered. The evening news will be filled of teary-eyed Leavers streaming out of the Swindon plant bemoaning their fate.
It could be terminal.
The optics are disastrous for LEAVE. I can see polls switching quite severely now, towards REMAIN. What if, a week before Brexit Day, polls are showing the public split 60/40 or even 65/35 in favour of REMAIN?0 -
I don't think that it's just Brexit that's motivating the Seven.Charles said:
Now I get it!nico67 said:A lot of whining from some on social media about the seven but if Corbyn would have respected the party conference motion then this wouldn’t have happened .
Were you #6 or #7 on the list of resigning MPs?0 -
That doesn't surprise me. Labour's brand is still strong. As I say, I can disagree with the policies of the Labour Party (although much of what I heard today from the 7 seemed perfectly reasonable), but I never would imagine they would have their own MPs running for the doors after months / years of anti-semitic abuse from the membership.kle4 said:
There's still a lot of resistance to the idea it's even possible. Anecdote alert, but just today so done commented to me they find the allegations hard to believe because of what labour stand for, that they could understand it of the Tories. And I know this person voted Tory more than labour!FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Ms Berger thinks your party is now institutionally anti-Semitic...but carry on. I honestly never thought I would see the Labour Party described as such, not least by one of its own.bigjohnowls said:
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.0 -
He might have been the world heavyweight boxing champ at the time, but this is one fight Iron Mike would have been a distinct underdog in...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716391/Mike-Tyson-claims-offered-zookeeper-10-000-fight-bully-silverback-GORILLA.html?ito=social-facebook&fbclid=IwAR2-8X_xAvXlPShew4ifOgln8sVYB4SKgc73QF94HUykSkklZSGtbYxUdig0 -
Formerly of this parish always worth catching up on...
https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/10974845177476833280 -
I'll have a wager £5 that the Labour split will be the main story and run for 5-10 minutes at the start of both the BBC and ITV News. Honda closing in 2022 just isn't on the same public interest level.SeanT said:
Do you want a sportsman's bet on that? I think Honda will be one of the top three stories on the BBC news at 6 AND at 10.Brom said:Because of the gang of 7 it's safe to say the Honda news will be a minor story tonight. For those FBPE supporters linking it to Brexit it seems Chuka has scored a bit of an own goal by crowding out the press coverage.
If you disagree, then we could have a little wager, say £5, the loser to pay the money to the winner's favourite charity. Deal?0 -
I would imagine the BBC will tie them together, as although the gang of 7 won't have known this news, they do relate to one another.SeanT said:
Do you want a sportsman's bet on that? I think Honda will be one of the top three stories on the BBC news at 6 AND at 10.Brom said:Because of the gang of 7 it's safe to say the Honda news will be a minor story tonight. For those FBPE supporters linking it to Brexit it seems Chuka has scored a bit of an own goal by crowding out the press coverage.
If you disagree, then we could have a little wager, say £5, the loser to pay the money to the winner's favourite charity. Deal?0 -
Not just not Corbyn. Nobody in his office contacted her over this....Just imagine for a second if something had happened. I mean it isn't like we haven't had several nutters attack MPs over the past few years.Scrapheap_as_was said:Formerly of this parish always worth catching up on...
https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/10974845177476833280 -
And given how business-unfriendly the UK is becoming, the argument that bad business news is nothing to do with Brexit simply won't stand up any more.OllyT said:
You are missing the point.Brom said:
I love the way the FBPE crowd are ignoring the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit, the fact no jobs are moving to the EU and the fact even after the vote they decided to keep their EU HQ in the UK. Unfortunately car manufacturing is an industry in severe decline, it's just a shame that those desperate for project fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
The Brexit crowd gained traction over the years by blaming all sorts of things on the EU regardless of whether it was true or not.
Even if Honda or Nissan has nothing to do with Brexit you are about to reap what you sowed. People are going to believe it was because of Brexit and that's what really matters.0 -
People are going to believe it or just ardent Europhiles? Bit of a difference. It'll take more than job losses in Swindon in 6 years to change the minds of 17 million people. Project Fear will continue to make the same mistakes because they think people can be easily scared into changing their minds and that everything revolves around economic news. Well if it did then as a nation we'd be rejoicing at low inflation and low unemployment but clearly we are not.OllyT said:
You are missing the point.Brom said:
I love the way the FBPE crowd are ignoring the fact the Honda CEO says it's nothing to do with Brexit, the fact no jobs are moving to the EU and the fact even after the vote they decided to keep their EU HQ in the UK. Unfortunately car manufacturing is an industry in severe decline, it's just a shame that those desperate for project fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
The Brexit crowd gained traction over the years by blaming all sorts of things on the EU regardless of whether it was true or not.
Even if Honda or Nissan has nothing to do with Brexit you are about to reap what you sowed. People are going to believe it was because of Brexit and that's what really matters.0 -
0
-
Our current kind of chaos has seen our employment rate grow to the highest ever recorded, while inflation is below our 2% target. Can Venezuela say any of that?Nigelb said:
Not the current kind of chaos - otherwise Venezuela would be the world's leading economy.Philip_Thompson said:
Stability and chaos are both double-edged swords. Being sclerotic is a form of stability and it is not what we should seek.Big_G_NorthWales said:
We need stability not chaos with no dealPhilip_Thompson said:
Why? When as you have said "Brexit is not the driver in this decision"?Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that is always the consequence of losing a big manfacturer. While brexit is not the driver in this decision in the publics eyes it may well be.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
We need TM's deal passed fast and lift some of the doom
Why pander to those who are trying to cause fear when it is not real. We need a deal if a deal is right for us, not because the optics of real life changes happen to look a particular way.
On the other hand rapid technological and economic growth comes with it an amount of chaos.0 -
LBC is always worth a listen to get a range of views on the story of the day.
Right now a Labour councillor Danny from Bexley is phoning in to describe how unpleasant the party is right now and how he is cheering the seven defectors on. Edit/ also PPC in 2017 in Old Bexley0 -
Parody accounts up and running already.Gallowgate said:TIG has got the bants on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/theineptgroup/status/1097485406726164481?s=210 -
But you said this story would affect millions of voters and radically alter opinion polls despite not even being the main news story? Not sure how that works.SeanT said:
No bet. Tut tut. You first claimed that Honda would be a "minor" story. If it is in the top three stories, the headlines announced at the start of the news, then it is definitely not a "minor" story.Brom said:
I'll have a wager £5 that the Labour split will be the main story and run for 5-10 minutes at the start of both the BBC and ITV News. Honda closing in 2022 just isn't on the same public interest level.SeanT said:
Do you want a sportsman's bet on that? I think Honda will be one of the top three stories on the BBC news at 6 AND at 10.Brom said:Because of the gang of 7 it's safe to say the Honda news will be a minor story tonight. For those FBPE supporters linking it to Brexit it seems Chuka has scored a bit of an own goal by crowding out the press coverage.
If you disagree, then we could have a little wager, say £5, the loser to pay the money to the winner's favourite charity. Deal?
So you are scared to make a wager on your own claim.0 -
I've got Gang of 7 as first and it's a much older news story.SeanT said:
PS I think you'll lose your bet if you accept it.Brom said:Because of the gang of 7 it's safe to say the Honda news will be a minor story tonight. For those FBPE supporters linking it to Brexit it seems Chuka has scored a bit of an own goal by crowding out the press coverage.
Honda is now the most read news story on the BBC website. The gang of 7 are second.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news0 -
You are answering a different question. I am pointing out what tends to happen when an area loses a major structural employer. I didn't post anything at all about the stats in the wider economy over the past 12 months.Sean_F said:
Over the past year, though, growth in employment has been almost all in full-time work, and wages have rising quite strongly._Anazina_ said:
When you lose a major manufacturer and its supply chain you tend to trade good, well paid, full-time skilled unionised jobs for lower-paid jobs in sectors like retail, which also have crap working hours and conditions. I would not be as sanguine as you.Sean_F said:
If unemSeanT said:RoyalBlue said:
We are distinguishing between reality and how reality will be interpreted, which are quite different things. The latter is much more important in terms of influencing political outcomes.Philip_Thompson said:kjohnw said:
The Japanese nto Japan anyway.Sean_F said:
I appreciate that, and it's very damaging, but it remains the case that net employment growth has proved to be very strong. It's not like the early eighties.SeanT said:
You do reaSean_F said:
And, will ore jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
I'm shocked and a little bit disturbed by the number of people saying things like "this has nothing to do with Brexit but it doesn't matter".
This is by far the worst news Brexit has suffered. The evening news will be filled of teary-eyed Leavers streaming out of the Swindon plant bemoaning their fate.
It could be terminal.
The optics are disastrous for LEAVE. I can see polls switching quite severely now, towards REMAIN. What if, a week before Brexit Day, polls are showing the public split 60/40 or even 65/35 in favour of REMAIN?0 -
The two stories reinforce each other.Brom said:
But you said this story would affect millions of voters and radically alter opinion polls despite not even being the main news story? Not sure how that works.SeanT said:
No bet. Tut tut. You first claimed that Honda would be a "minor" story. If it is in the top three stories, the headlines announced at the start of the news, then it is definitely not a "minor" story.Brom said:
I'll have a wager £5 that the Labour split will be the main story and run for 5-10 minutes at the start of both the BBC and ITV News. Honda closing in 2022 just isn't on the same public interest level.SeanT said:
Do you want a sportsman's bet on that? I think Honda will be one of the top three stories on the BBC news at 6 AND at 10.Brom said:Because of the gang of 7 it's safe to say the Honda news will be a minor story tonight. For those FBPE supporters linking it to Brexit it seems Chuka has scored a bit of an own goal by crowding out the press coverage.
If you disagree, then we could have a little wager, say £5, the loser to pay the money to the winner's favourite charity. Deal?
So you are scared to make a wager on your own claim.
And they will be the top two stories on the BBC - as they are on the from page of the newspaper websites.
Understand now ?0 -
Mr. Woolie, I'd vote Vader.
Zero percent tolerance for rebel scum. And he got the Death Star built on time.0 -
Thinks she needs a better PR team...although her lawyer certainly said some interesting things in the past.
Jihadi bride Shamima Begum says Manchester Arena bombing was 'fair retaliation' for military strikes in Syria as she reveals she has named her son Jerah 'after Islamic warlord who massacred infidels'
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6716167/Jihadi-bride-east-London-Shamima-Begum-family-lawyer-says-want-baby-son-home.html0 -
The last two parliamentary parties to lose 13 MPs in a single parliament were the Tories (1992-7)* and Labour (1979-83). But if you're fine with those precedents, similarly occasioned by existential splits, carry on.bigjohnowls said:
Has she resigned from the new party where one of her 6 other defectors has already had to apologise for her funny tinge comment?FrancisUrquhart said:
Well Ms Berger thinks your party is now institutionally anti-Semitic...but carry on. I honestly never thought I would see the Labour Party described as such, not least by one of its own.bigjohnowls said:
Shameful comment but true to form for you TBF.FrancisUrquhart said:
That's the one where the bouncers says, no trainers, no tories, no jews*...bigjohnowls said:
I prefer the Jezz ClubFrancisUrquhart said:
Well I think he quite likes a trip to the Jazz club...Tissue_Price said:
I'd be staggered if Ken Clarke went anywhere.dyedwoolie said:
Yes, agreed. I think tipping point is the long term goal, say 50 from the PLP? That would signal the end days for labour. Tories probably waiting for Brexit settlement one way or another. Woolaston, Allen and Soubry I think, Ken Clarke but AFTER he leaves parliamentAlastairMeeks said:
There are two Labour groups to watch: those who are very noisy (eg Ian Murray, Owen Smith), and those who are very quiet (eg Liz Kendall).dyedwoolie said:Head on block time. I'd be very surprised if the Tiggers don't number in the teens at least within a fortnight
As for the Conservatives, presumably their move is a little later.
(small print) *exceptions made for card carrying communists who don't believe Israel has the right to exist.
Actually its the one with a 500,000 capacity where everybody is welcome as long as they know the words to the White Stripes number 1 hit (Glastonbury version) and are prepared to chant it for 3 hours non stop.
* The Tories ended the parliament down 12 (8 by-election defeats and 4 defections). The peak loss in the parliament came in 1994-5, following the removal of the whip from 8 MPs after they rebelled on a Europe-related Confidence vote in November 1994, and the resignation of one more, on top of 4 losses in by-elections to that point. The eight received the whip back in April 1995.0 -
I was just pondering the running order on the news. I reckon the magnificent 7 will get top billing as splits in a major political party occur less often than car plants closing down. But I might be wrong.SeanT said:
No bet. Tut tut. You first claimed that Honda would be a "minor" story. If it is in the top three stories, the headlines announced at the start of the news, then it is definitely not a "minor" story.Brom said:
I'll have a wager £5 that the Labour split will be the main story and run for 5-10 minutes at the start of both the BBC and ITV News. Honda closing in 2022 just isn't on the same public interest level.SeanT said:
Do you want a sportsman's bet on that? I think Honda will be one of the top three stories on the BBC news at 6 AND at 10.Brom said:Because of the gang of 7 it's safe to say the Honda news will be a minor story tonight. For those FBPE supporters linking it to Brexit it seems Chuka has scored a bit of an own goal by crowding out the press coverage.
If you disagree, then we could have a little wager, say £5, the loser to pay the money to the winner's favourite charity. Deal?
So you are scared to make a wager on your own claim.0 -
The associated cuts in investment plans start now.SeanT said:
The job losses start in 2021. Two years. Not six.Brom said:
People are going to believe it or just ardent Europhiles? Bit of a difference. It'll take more than job losses in Swindon in 6 years to change the minds of 17 million people. Project Fear will continue to make the same mistakes because they think people can be easily scared into changing their minds and that everything revolves around economic news. Well if it did then as a nation we'd be rejoicing at low inflation and low unemployment but clearly we are not.OllyT said:
You are missing the point.Brom said:
I love the way toject fear to come true choose to grasp at any straw possible._Anazina_ said:
Sean, it is time for you and other intelligent Leavers to reluctantly abandon your support for this project. It has been delivered unbelievably badly, and the optics going into Brexit day are terrible. Give it up.SeanT said:
You do realise that it won't just be 3,500 jobs. It will be all the jobs that support those jobs, the ancillary industries, the suppliers, the hauliers, right down to little corner shops in Swindon. The Honda plant was one of the biggest employers in the West Country.Sean_F said:
And, will probably further show a further rise tomorrow, but the flip side of my comment to Sean T is that one business shedding 3,500 jobs will generate far more publicity than lots of businesses generating more jobs in aggregate.Philip_Thompson said:
Yet employment levels keep surging ever upwards.Recidivist said:
But it keeps happening. Remainers don't have to keep explaining away big inward investment stories.nunuone said:
We've seen this before. A company announcing they are pulling out of Brexit Britain only to see a few days later the story is way overblown. In a few days time we will realise this news has also been overblown.SeanT said:The Honda news is a potential game-changer. And I speak as a Leaver.
It has been timed with perfection. Deliberately?
It could take another 10,000 jobs with it.
The Brexit crowd gained traction over the years by blaming all sorts of things on the EU regardless of whether it was true or not.
Even if Honda or Nissan has nothing to do with Brexit you are about to reap what you sowed. People are going to believe it was because of Brexit and that's what really matters.0
This discussion has been closed.