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Comments
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If Ken goes, I go.... but he won't!AlastairMeeks said:
Now apply that to the Conservative party's own jihad against Remain-sympathising MPs and rethink who might defect.Casino_Royale said:Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
That’s what pushed them.
What else had they to lose?0 -
Very unlikely. Labour was not looking for a Blairite clone in 2015. Apparently there were also skeletons hanging around his cupboard.Roger said:Scott_P said:
You forget that had Umunna not withdrawn his leadership campaign he would almost certainly have been chosen.bigjohnowls said:
The minimum Lab should expect is that their elected representatives should be able to say is that they would prefer a Lab Govt under Jezza than a Tory one under TM.Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
Unfortunately the not so magnificent 7 even couldnt meet this minimum requirement.0 -
If a deal passes, the Brexit argument will just grind on because none of the future relationship trade offs have been confronted yet.Sandpit said:
That sounds about right. We end up with an amended deal with a limited backstop passing at the last minute in March, following which the Tories go back to the rest of the things government needs to do, and Labour go back to arguing with each other over how it’s not really racism if it’s against Jews.GreenHeron said:The events of this morning have reinforced what I have been thinking for some time - that despite the cchaos that has been the government in recent times, Theresa May could end up in an unbelievably strong position in a couple of months.
Furthermore, as someone who believes that a deal is by far the best (or least worst) outcome, I feel that May is finally going about this the right way. I have tried to "war game" her strategy and have concluded the following:
1. Her ultimate goal is to put a deal to parliament with a compromise on the backstop. Thanks to the Brady amendment, she knows that this would have parliamentary backing and she is therefore able to tell the EU in clear terms what they need to do.
2. As can be seen from the EU reaction to the prospect of No Deal in recent weeks, putting forward No Deal as the only alternative gives the EU incentive to negotiate in a collaborative manner.
3. Even in the event that she is unable to gain any kind of concession from the EU, the Spelman Amendment shows that there is a parliamentary majority against No Deal, so if she were to present any deal to parliament at the last minute with No Deal as the only alternative then she is also likely to win.
4. While an extension to pass various bills may be required once a deal is agreed, an extension to negotiate a deal is both pointless (as we are only arguing one detail) and counterproductive, as unless she gets a full concession from the EU she needs the time pressure to get her deal through.
5. The above only works if No Deal is the alternative position. Removing No Deal removes all incentive for the EU to negotiate collaboratively and allows MPs hoping to remain to vote it down.
6. If all of the above fails the EU is sure to grant an extension in order for both sides to avoid No Deal. I do not think for a minute that May is happy to allow No Deal to happen and may be forced down the referendum route.
For those reasons, so long as she sticks to her negotiating principles, I expect a deal to be passed, which while flawed, is already seen as by far the least worst option in polls. A deal will, I expect, keep the tory party together while the labour party is hopelessly split.0 -
Banks had his membership request rejected.AlastairMeeks said:
Are they? It seems to be working.Casino_Royale said:
It’s naked entryism by Aaron Banks and Leave.EU with the subtlety of a hand grenade on a maternity ward.AlastairMeeks said:
Now apply that to the Conservative party's own jihad against Remain-sympathising MPs and rethink who might defect.Casino_Royale said:Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
That’s what pushed them.
What else had they to lose?
The Conservative Party are very wise to it.
How many Tory MPs have lost a VONC?0 -
Unless there was one on anti-semitism that I missed, you're talking about the Brexit motion, in which case I think you're being extremely unfair to at least some of the seven.nico67 said:A lot of whining from some on social media about the seven but if Corbyn would have respected the party conference motion then this wouldn’t have happened .
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But how soon would the elections take place? How long would remain be seven down?Pulpstar said:
Short answer, 7 Labour holds. Penistone is more interesting than the others (Possible outside chance of a Tory gain), as standing independents though I think they'd all probably lose.Fysics_Teacher said:If the Seven did stand down to face bye-elections, what would that do to the parliamentary arithmetic in the run up to Brexit? Is this a good reason why they won’t?
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No Labour MPs in Luton now, despite them winning both seats with big majorities at GE2017.0
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The minimum requirement of being willing to cripple the country by inflicting the Stupid Communist upon it?bigjohnowls said:
The minimum Lab should expect is that their elected representatives should be able to say is that they would prefer a Lab Govt under Jezza than a Tory one under TM.Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
Unfortunately the not so magnificent 7 even couldnt meet this minimum requirement.0 -
Quite likely - particularly in 1987 - though the old Wavertree boundaries were more favourable for them.AndyJS said:
The Tories probably would have lost Wavertree in 1983 or 1987 given the big anti-Tory swing in Liverpool at that time.justin124 said:
Bar Nottingham East the seats were Tory-held until 1992 - though boundaries have changed.Wavertree disappeared in 1983 but was brought back as a bigger seat in 1997.AndyJS said:
Useless fact: all of those seats with Conservative until 1979 and/or 1983.Pulpstar said:Looking at the TIG seats individually one sticks out,
Penistone and Stocksbridge - ultramarginal
Stockport, very safe Labour
Wavertree, ultrasafe Labour
Ilford South, ultrasafe Labour
Nottingham East, very very safe Labour
Luton South, very safe Labour
Streatham, ultrasafe Labour
So only Smith might give the Tories a seat if she runs next time round; I'd expect the rest to be safe Labour holds even if the MPs ran as independents. I doubt any of them can win without the Labour mark.0 -
Haha Haha no.Scott_P said:
Especially if sensible conservatives is defined as "we must remain in the EU and overturn the referendum at all costs" which is the view of about 8 hardline MPs alone.0 -
So not content to go fishing in a puddle you decide to split said puddle in half.Scott_P said:0 -
It’s not wishful thinking on my part, I am not a Conservative voter. We shall see how they get on when the Independents against Independence stand in an election. Could be waiting a long time though.AlastairMeeks said:
That looks like wishful thinking to me, straight from the school that thinks Labour Leavers are magically more Leavers than Labour but Conservative Remainers prioritise party loyalty. But polling shows that voters' Brexit identity is self-perceived to be stronger than their party identity and that a plurality of voters do not see a party that represents them.DonTsInferno_ said:
I’d say a lot of Conservative Remain voters were more Conservative than Remain, accept we are leaving and would rather a Conservative govt than risk a Labour one by voting for people whose sole aim is stopping Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:
What do you think the Conservative party offers Remain voters beyond the prospect of keeping out Jeremy Corbyn?DonTsInferno_ said:
Conservative MPs defecting maybe, Conservative voters...?AlastairMeeks said:To be expected, though I would have thought that if it takes off it will probably pull as many Conservative Remainers as erstwhile Labour loyalists.
Conservative Remainers that have stuck with the Conservative party today are either doing so out of fear of Jeremy Corbyn or Stockholm Syndrome.0 -
You do tend to find councillors who have to run things, in charge of an administration no what political reality is like, how choices over things you want. Corbyn’s Labour has no concept of priorities.IanB2 said:
More interesting will be how many actually serving councillors follow the MPs' leadtwistedfirestopper3 said:0 -
Not rolling in a cornfield naked?Mexicanpete said:
No if I were Mrs May I would be hill walking in Snowdonia this week.Roger said:
I don't agree. It's impossible to know what twists and turns this will take. What we know is that most voters are somewhere in the centre but both major party leaderships are at the extreme. (The Tories more than Labour). This could well kill the Labour Party but equally it could be irrelevant.Mexicanpete said:What a fantastic day for the Conservative Party. Nice one Jeremy!
That said, Corbyn gets his wish for perpetual opposition. Power without responsibility!0 -
I have no idea why Luciana Berger feels the need to leave...from the end of last year...
The Labour leadership has failed to make any contact with Jewish Labour MP Luciana Berger — despite the announcement last week of a criminal investigation into violent antisemitic threats made against her.
The JC understands that neither Jeremy Corbyn nor any member of his senior team has offered support of any kind to Ms Berger after Cressida Dick, the Metropolitan Police Commissioner, confirmed last Friday the start of a criminal probe into the threats that appeared in a dossier of abuse from Labour members.
In a series of potentially catastrophic events for Labour, it has emerged that party officials were fully aware of the threats made to Ms Berger — including the suggestion she was a “Zionist Extremist… about (to) get a good kicking” — for at least six months.
Despite the fact that Ms Berger has been a frequent target of extremists since she was elected Liverpool Wavertree MP in 2010, and that Labour MP Jo Cox was murdered by an extremist in 2016, Labour officials failed to alert Ms Berger or the police about the existence of threats now deemed serious enough for an investigation by Scotland Yard.
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/labour-snubs-mp-luciana-berger-over-assault-threat-1.4722340 -
I'm aware of some significent skeletons Umunna has in his cupboard and I wonder if they're more likely to be exposed now given the enemies he has made.justin124 said:
Very unlikely. Labour was not looking for a Blairite clone in 2015. Apparently there were also skeletons hanging around his cupboard.Roger said:Scott_P said:
You forget that had Umunna not withdrawn his leadership campaign he would almost certainly have been chosen.bigjohnowls said:
The minimum Lab should expect is that their elected representatives should be able to say is that they would prefer a Lab Govt under Jezza than a Tory one under TM.Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
Unfortunately the not so magnificent 7 even couldnt meet this minimum requirement.0 -
Esther Rantzens campaign for indys bearing late fruitAndyJS said:No Labour MPs in Luton now, despite them winning both seats with big majorities at GE2017.
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It’s on the table the same way one of my many new diets is ! It sits there never used ! Corbyn was allegedly all about party democracy , the membership overwhelmingly backs a second vote and he’s chosen to ignore that and chase the 20% of Labour voters who still think Brexit is a good idea .bigjohnowls said:
He is a 2nd Referendum is still on the table and will be a last resort if TM doesnt cave in to #CorbynsCustomsUnion.nico67 said:A lot of whining from some on social media about the seven but if Corbyn would have respected the party conference motion then this wouldn’t have happened .
He’s betrayed the vast majority of Labour supporters. If Keir Starmer was in charge Labour would be wiping the floor with the Tories .
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I think this might be big because of Chuka. He has appeal to 'moderates' on both sides. I know this because I am acquainted with quite a few of these strange fruits and they all tell me they would probably vote for a party led by him.Roger said:I don't agree. It's impossible to know what twists and turns this will take. What we know is that most voters are somewhere in the centre but both major party leaderships are at the extreme. (The Tories more than Labour). This could well kill the Labour Party but equally it could be irrelevant.
On a more serious note, MotherFatherSon, a new TV series starring Richard Gere is starting soon. It's a relationship drama set in the here and now so he will be wearing modern western clothing. A must watch as far as I'm concerned.0 -
Would be tremendous incompetence to go now.Scott_P said:
The Labour Party split is too nascent. It's still in the embryonic stage and would be aborted if we went to the polls now.
A split will need a year or two to build up momentum. Get more defections, a party infrastructure, at least candidates in seats!0 -
Forty years too late for both Theresa and me I fear.Roger said:
Not rolling in a cornfield naked?Mexicanpete said:
No if I were Mrs May I would be hill walking in Snowdonia this week.Roger said:
I don't agree. It's impossible to know what twists and turns this will take. What we know is that most voters are somewhere in the centre but both major party leaderships are at the extreme. (The Tories more than Labour). This could well kill the Labour Party but equally it could be irrelevant.Mexicanpete said:What a fantastic day for the Conservative Party. Nice one Jeremy!
That said, Corbyn gets his wish for perpetual opposition. Power without responsibility!0 -
These punters who imagine the Tories doing so well out of the Independent 7 -- are they all of them unwavering Tories themselves? Aren't there many who were taught by Corbyn in 2017 to hate the Tories, even if Corbyn has failed to ensure that they still love Labour as led by him? Isn't it possible that the effect of the Independent 7 will be to reduce the Tories' share -- even perhaps to do so sufficiently for Labour to come out victorious?
People speak of "splitting the Labour vote". But it's not as if one could assume a fixed anti-Tory vote.0 -
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Why on earth would they give up the leverage they have? I don't disagree that they ought to stand down to stand again as independent (their voters voted for Labour, after all), but the pragmatic move is to stay and somehow try to wield 7/12ths of the power of the DUP. Which is a lot of power.Fysics_Teacher said:If the Seven did stand down to face bye-elections, what would that do to the parliamentary arithmetic in the run up to Brexit? Is this a good reason why they won’t?
May's deal for example. I know they are second voters but actually what could they extract from an in the corner May to support the WA?0 -
The Conservative splitters could call themselves the Centre Group just to confuse people.Scott_P said:0 -
No, that's not right. What you are missing is that, for the moment at least, the Conservative Party is still led by moderates. Theresa May, for all her many faults and despite her clumsiness, is trying hard to implement the 2016 People's Vote in a sensible way. Indeed she has (in defiance of many predictions) agreed a realistic deal with the EU27, which those of use who voted Remain can accept as not too bad if we're going to do Brexit at all . We have an eminently sensible and moderate Chancellor, a business-friendly Business Secretary, a very good, centrist Works & Pensions secretary, a decent Home Secretary, an excellent Justice Secretary, and Michael Gove is widely admired (even by Nick P of this parish) for his handling of the Environment brief. So those of us from the sensible wing of the Conservative Party have every reason to continue supporting it, despite the attacks from the loony wing and despite some less than stellar occupiers of some of the other portfolios.AlastairMeeks said:Conservative Remainers that have stuck with the Conservative party today are either doing so out of fear of Jeremy Corbyn or Stockholm Syndrome.
Of course, the utter unacceptability of Corbyn and his henchmen is also a strong motivator, but for the moment the Conservative Party is still a reasonable offer. Obviously if the loons take control as they have in Labour, or if we end up crashing out in chaos, that may change, but we're not there yet0 -
Like Cooper-Balls, Tom Watson is Labour till he dies.Scrapheap_as_was said:Now that would be a cool 8th.....
https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1097486406098845697
Anyone associated with El Gord will will stick it out.0 -
Off topic but in F1 news - Williams won't be testing tomorrow and may not make Wednesday..
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12476/11629736/williams-set-to-miss-another-day-of-pre-season-testing-in-barcelona0 -
Interesting and thoughtful interview with David Blunkett on WATO.
A lot of hypocrisy from McCluskey though. He says that the departing MPs increased their majorities as a result of Corbyn's leadership. They should stand as independents.
Well, the same can be said of Corbyn. His increased majorities came on the back of Blair's leadership. Didn't stop him rebelling constantly, far more than these MPs have ever done. And he didn't have the balls to stand as an independent either. He just decided to support the entryists - Militant Tendency.
Corbyn has no business demanding loyalty from anyone, given how little loyalty he showed to the Labour leadership when he was a backbench MP.0 -
That arrogance is breath-taking..... a no deal Brexit could easily create the economic mess needed to sweep in an extremist lefty party promising chimps and unicorns paid for by the elite wealthy few. ...Scott_P said:
Yours a tory wet.0 -
No, its not the extremists being threatened with deselection in either partyTGOHF said:
In the Con scenario - Allen and Soubry are the Corbynites...AlastairMeeks said:
Now apply that to the Conservative party's own jihad against Remain-sympathising MPs and rethink who might defect.Casino_Royale said:Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
That’s what pushed them.
What else had they to lose?0 -
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FrancisUrquhart said:
Johnny mac wants by-elections of these traitors.
Just like he stood in a by-election when he was busy rebelling against the Labour leadership..... Oh no, he didn't.0 -
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BMG’s Westminster Voting Intention Results: February 2019
Posted 18/02/19 in Polling
BMG’s latest Westminster voting intention poll shows the Conservative party pull ahead of the Labour party for the first time since July 2018. The poll was conducted between 4th – 8th February and surveyed 1,503 GB adults.
The Conservative party’s voting intention share rose by 2% from January to 38%, giving them a lead over the Labour party of 3%. The Labour party’s vote intention share has decreased by 1% from last month, leaving them on just 35%. This is the lowest voting intention recorded since the 2017 UK General Election. However, please note that these results are within the margin of error.
The Liberal Democrats and UKIP voting intention share has remained stable on 13% and 5% respectively.
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https://twitter.com/BBCNormanS/status/1097486244005728258Cyclefree said:Interesting and thoughtful interview with David Blunkett on WATO.
https://twitter.com/colinrtalbot/status/10974865330897264700 -
From memory in the HoC seating, was Yvette not always sat next to Leslie?GIN1138 said:
Like Cooper-Balls, Tom Watson is Labour till he dies.Scrapheap_as_was said:Now that would be a cool 8th.....
https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1097486406098845697
Anyone associated with El Gord will will stick it out.0 -
John Barnes is on QT this week....he certainly isn't shy when it comes to his opinion on Churchill....0
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Streeting has said he wont go. Career before principle.Scott_P said:0 -
Almost certainly bollox, but if not, how dumb are these people?
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/10974943097740001280 -
Heh, I'm guessing you live inside the M25kinabalu said:
I think this might be big because of Chuka. He has appeal to 'moderates' on both sides. I know this because I am acquainted with quite a few of these strange fruits and they all tell me they would probably vote for a party led by him.Roger said:I don't agree. It's impossible to know what twists and turns this will take. What we know is that most voters are somewhere in the centre but both major party leaderships are at the extreme. (The Tories more than Labour). This could well kill the Labour Party but equally it could be irrelevant.
? 0 -
Meanwhile, one of the 7 valiant anti-racists has suggested that woman of colour Ash Sarkar has a "funny tint":
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/10974845106760294400 -
Oh dear, sad to see what’s become of them in recent years to one of the most successful privateer teams. Time for Sir Frank to bring in someone to ‘help’ Claire run the team I think.eek said:Off topic but in F1 news - Williams won't be testing tomorrow and may not make Wednesday..
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12476/11629736/williams-set-to-miss-another-day-of-pre-season-testing-in-barcelona0 -
I don't think that's true re Corbyn's majority. Corbyn won by 32k in 2017; he was down in four figures in 2005 when the Lib Dems were a real threat.Cyclefree said:Interesting and thoughtful interview with David Blunkett on WATO.
A lot of hypocrisy from McCluskey though. He says that the departing MPs increased their majorities as a result of Corbyn's leadership. They should stand as independents.
Well, the same can be said of Corbyn. His increased majorities came on the back of Blair's leadership. Didn't stop him rebelling constantly, far more than these MPs have ever done. And he didn't have the balls to stand as an independent either. He just decided to support the entryists - Militant Tendency.
Corbyn has no business demanding loyalty from anyone, given how little loyalty he showed to the Labour leadership when he was a backbench MP.
But you're right that Corbyn has little space to credibly argue for loyalty (and, to be fair, as an individual, hasn't usually - although the same can't be said for his cheerleaders).0 -
My own MP, Tulip Siddiq, said just this to me before the last election. She told me I should vote for her because after the election Corbyn would be ousted and there would be no chance of him being PM.bigjohnowls said:
The minimum Lab should expect is that their elected representatives should be able to say is that they would prefer a Lab Govt under Jezza than a Tory one under TM.Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
Unfortunately the not so magnificent 7 even couldnt meet this minimum requirement.
I doubt she was the only MP saying this.0 -
And with fewer moderates on the Labour benches to restrain such a lefty party too.Scrapheap_as_was said:
That arrogance is breath-taking..... a no deal Brexit could easily create the economic mess needed to sweep in an extremist lefty party promising chimps and unicorns paid for by the elite wealthy few. ...Scott_P said:
Yours a tory wet.0 -
No, in the short term this is good for the Tories. In the longer term it will probably be beneficial for whoever emerges from thus anti-Tory mess. That could be Momentum- free Labour or a new Blairite Party.alednam said:These punters who imagine the Tories doing so well out of the Independent 7 -- are they all of them unwavering Tories themselves? Aren't there many who were taught by Corbyn in 2017 to hate the Tories, even if Corbyn has failed to ensure that they still love Labour as led by him? Isn't it possible that the effect of the Independent 7 will be to reduce the Tories' share -- even perhaps to do so sufficiently for Labour to come out victorious?
People speak of "splitting the Labour vote". But it's not as if one could assume a fixed anti-Tory vote.0 -
I agree that the power they have in a series of votes in the next month makes bye-elections very unlikely.TOPPING said:
Why on earth would they give up the leverage they have? I don't disagree that they ought to stand down to stand again as independent (their voters voted for Labour, after all), but the pragmatic move is to stay and somehow try to wield 7/12ths of the power of the DUP. Which is a lot of power.Fysics_Teacher said:If the Seven did stand down to face bye-elections, what would that do to the parliamentary arithmetic in the run up to Brexit? Is this a good reason why they won’t?
May's deal for example. I know they are second voters but actually what could they extract from an in the corner May to support the WA?
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I mean this is it isn't it. All the cultists saying it is a disgrace these people unwilling to sign the pledge to worship Project Jezza, don't seem to know their history of what the likes of Jezza and Johnny Mac spent most of the last 40 years doing..Cyclefree said:FrancisUrquhart said:Johnny mac wants by-elections of these traitors.
Just like he stood in a by-election when he was busy rebelling against the Labour leadership..... Oh no, he didn't.0 -
Very wise. She’d be great and have superb appeal.Theuniondivvie said:Almost certainly bollox, but if not, how dumb are these people?
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1097494309774000128
The only reason you don’t like her is she’s a Scottish Unionist frustrating your ambitions.0 -
+1Richard_Nabavi said:
No, that's not right. What you are missing is that, for the moment at least, the Conservative Party is still led by moderates. Theresa May, for all her many faults and despite her clumsiness, is trying hard to implement the 2016 People's Vote in a sensible way. Indeed she has (in defiance of many predictions) agreed a realistic deal with the EU27, which those of use who voted Remain can accept as not too bad if we're going to do Brexit at all . We have an eminently sensible and moderate Chancellor, a business-friendly Business Secretary, a very good, centrist Works & Pensions secretary, a decent Home Secretary, an excellent Justice Secretary, and Michael Gove is widely admired (even by Nick P of this parish) for his handling of the Environment brief. So those of us from the sensible wing of the Conservative Party have every reason to continue supporting it, despite the attacks from the loony wing and despite some less than stellar occupiers of some of the other portfolios.AlastairMeeks said:Conservative Remainers that have stuck with the Conservative party today are either doing so out of fear of Jeremy Corbyn or Stockholm Syndrome.
Of course, the utter unacceptability of Corbyn and his henchmen is also a strong motivator, but for the moment the Conservative Party is still a reasonable offer. Obviously if the loons take control as they have in Labour, or if we end up crashing out in chaos, that may change, but we're not there yet0 -
They haven't even bothered to disguise the cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if Victoria Derbyshire put's in a complaint. The effect is to make her seem a very poor interviewerbigjohnowls said:Oh no First Mike Gapes
Now Adam Langlethingy
If only Corbyn hadnt completely ignored AS
https://twitter.com/the_awakend/status/10296855369513451520 -
AlastairMeeks said:
Are they? It seems to be working.Casino_Royale said:
It’s naked entryism by Aaron Banks and Leave.EU with the subtlety of a hand grenade on a maternity ward.AlastairMeeks said:
Now apply that to the Conservative party's own jihad against Remain-sympathising MPs and rethink who might defect.Casino_Royale said:Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
That’s what pushed them.
What else had they to lose?
The Conservative Party are very wise to it.
Has a VoNC been carried yet?0 -
Let's bookmark that comment for when Ruth makes her inevitable intervention on Brexit sometime before the end of March.Casino_Royale said:
Very wise. She’d be great and have superb appeal.Theuniondivvie said:Almost certainly bollox, but if not, how dumb are these people?
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1097494309774000128
The only reason you don’t like her is she’s a Scottish Unionist frustrating your ambitions.0 -
Shush Roger..... this is a revered clipping which is repeatedly posted here by the true believers to show how unworthy the criticism is.... you'll be told to eff off if you challenge it's sacred authenticity.Roger said:
They haven't even bothered to disguise the cuts. I wouldn't be surprised if Victoria Derbyshire put's in a complaint. The effect is to make her seem a very poor interviewerbigjohnowls said:Oh no First Mike Gapes
Now Adam Langlethingy
If only Corbyn hadnt completely ignored AS
https://twitter.com/the_awakend/status/10296855369513451520 -
In the *run-up* to Brexit (i.e. the next five and a half weeks), it would give May a 'majority' of one. The Tories have 316 seats, excluding Dep/Speakers. (650-316), less the Speakers, less Sinn Fein, less the Rebel Seven, less the banged-up Onasanya, is 315.Fysics_Teacher said:If the Seven did stand down to face bye-elections, what would that do to the parliamentary arithmetic in the run up to Brexit? Is this a good reason why they won’t?
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You never came back to me with all those examples of abusive posts I'm supposed to spew out. Now's your chance, federast boy.Casino_Royale said:
Very wise. She’d be great and have superb appeal.Theuniondivvie said:Almost certainly bollox, but if not, how dumb are these people?
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1097494309774000128
The only reason you don’t like her is she’s a Scottish Unionist frustrating your ambitions.0 -
That’s probably part of the thinking behind not setting up a party just yet, as it avoids too much discussion of the Carswell Principle during what’s going to be a very difficult few months in Parliamentary terms.Fysics_Teacher said:
I agree that the power they have in a series of votes in the next month makes bye-elections very unlikely.TOPPING said:
Why on earth would they give up the leverage they have? I don't disagree that they ought to stand down to stand again as independent (their voters voted for Labour, after all), but the pragmatic move is to stay and somehow try to wield 7/12ths of the power of the DUP. Which is a lot of power.Fysics_Teacher said:If the Seven did stand down to face bye-elections, what would that do to the parliamentary arithmetic in the run up to Brexit? Is this a good reason why they won’t?
May's deal for example. I know they are second voters but actually what could they extract from an in the corner May to support the WA?0 -
Yes. In idler moments I have taken to wondering that, Brexit and attitudes to immigrants put to one side, we actually have the most left wing government in 40 years?Richard_Nabavi said:
No, that's not right. What you are missing is that, for the moment at least, the Conservative Party is still led by moderates. Theresa May, for all her many faults and despite her clumsiness, is trying hard to implement the 2016 People's Vote in a sensible way. Indeed she has (in defiance of many predictions) agreed a realistic deal with the EU27, which those of use who voted Remain can accept as not too bad if we're going to do Brexit at all . We have an eminently sensible and moderate Chancellor, a business-friendly Business Secretary, a very good, centrist Works & Pensions secretary, a decent Home Secretary, an excellent Justice Secretary, and Michael Gove is widely admired (even by Nick P of this parish) for his handling of the Environment brief. So those of us from the sensible wing of the Conservative Party have every reason to continue supporting it, despite the attacks from the loony wing and despite some less than stellar occupiers of some of the other portfolios.AlastairMeeks said:Conservative Remainers that have stuck with the Conservative party today are either doing so out of fear of Jeremy Corbyn or Stockholm Syndrome.
Of course, the utter unacceptability of Corbyn and his henchmen is also a strong motivator, but for the moment the Conservative Party is still a reasonable offer. Obviously if the loons take control as they have in Labour, or if we end up crashing out in chaos, that may change, but we're not there yet
Gauke's unremarked upon intervention on sentencing today being the latest example.0 -
Did she intend you to make this public?Cyclefree said:
My own MP, Tulip Siddiq, said just this to me before the last election. She told me I should vote for her because after the election Corbyn would be ousted and there would be no chance of him being PM.bigjohnowls said:
The minimum Lab should expect is that their elected representatives should be able to say is that they would prefer a Lab Govt under Jezza than a Tory one under TM.Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
Unfortunately the not so magnificent 7 even couldnt meet this minimum requirement.
I doubt she was the only MP saying this.0 -
What a start for the new party, Angela Smith straight into a racism row.0
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The TIG don't need a Scotland strategy at all at present - that's running before you've even learned to crawl.Casino_Royale said:Very wise. She’d be great and have superb appeal.
The only reason you don’t like her is she’s a Scottish Unionist frustrating your ambitions.0 -
The run down in Japanese investment in the UK since Abe's visit to see May last year has been stunning. Must have been something she said.Scott_P said:0 -
Once the egg is broken it can't be put back together again.Scott_P said:0 -
I wouldn't go that far! Leaving aside Brexit (which obviously sucks out all the air), it's a bit of a mixture but broadly Cameroon still.dixiedean said:Yes. In idler moments I have taken to wondering that, Brexit and attitudes to immigrants put to one side, we actually have the most left wing government in 40 years?
Gauke's unremarked upon intervention on sentencing today being the latest example.0 -
Interesting - though the fieldwork is a week older than Opinium.felix said:
BMG’s Westminster Voting Intention Results: February 2019
Posted 18/02/19 in Polling
BMG’s latest Westminster voting intention poll shows the Conservative party pull ahead of the Labour party for the first time since July 2018. The poll was conducted between 4th – 8th February and surveyed 1,503 GB adults.
The Conservative party’s voting intention share rose by 2% from January to 38%, giving them a lead over the Labour party of 3%. The Labour party’s vote intention share has decreased by 1% from last month, leaving them on just 35%. This is the lowest voting intention recorded since the 2017 UK General Election. However, please note that these results are within the margin of error.
The Liberal Democrats and UKIP voting intention share has remained stable on 13% and 5% respectively.0 -
Surely Lucianna has to resignPulpstar said:What a start for the new party, Angela Smith straight into a racism row.
Her new party is Institutionally Rascist against those with a "strange tinge"0 -
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Ho. Lee. Shit.
Honda quitting Swindon is massive news. It's the absolute bedrock of the town. Mrs Capitano used to teach there - so many families were dependent on Honda in one way or another.
Looks like chances of a General Election just receded again.... and chances of No Brexit just surged.0 -
not until 2022Scott_P said:0 -
Sources said that Honda was likely to relocate the manufacturing capability at Swindon to its home market of Japan. The ability to guarantee tariff-free exports to the EU is understood to have been among the factors persuading the company of the merits of its decision. It was unclear whether the Government securing a wide-ranging free trade deal with the EU would have any impact on the company's decision.
https://news.sky.com/story/honda-to-stun-ministers-with-closure-of-swindon-factory-116411540 -
A Leave voting area. How sorry should we feel?Scott_P said:0 -
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I think there's no chance that Ruth Davidson would switch.Casino_Royale said:
Very wise. She’d be great and have superb appeal.Theuniondivvie said:Almost certainly bollox, but if not, how dumb are these people?
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1097494309774000128
The only reason you don’t like her is she’s a Scottish Unionist frustrating your ambitions.0 -
Seems like the 'x is a long time in politics' scale is now re-calibrated to about 4 hours.El_Capitano said:Ho. Lee. Shit.
Honda quitting Swindon is massive news. It's the absolute bedrock of the town. Mrs Capitano used to teach there - so many families were dependent on Honda in one way or another.
Looks like chances of a General Election just receded again.... and chances of No Brexit just surged.0 -
Two Tory seats - one very marginal.Scott_P said:0 -
LOL at Len McCluskey:
“They stood as Labour MPs on a platform in the general election 18 months ago. All of them got massive increases in their majorities. I have to tell them it wasn’t because of their own personal charisma. It was because of a manifesto which promised to respect the 2016 referendum and take us out of Europe, so all of their heartbreak sounds a little bit hollow.”
Ah, so that's the explanation for the 2017 increase in the Labour vote. It was a vote against staying in the EU. Glad we've got that cleared up.0 -
I see that neither of my MPs are now Labour.0
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She said it in public in front of two Labour members campaigning with her. And to at least two other voters in her constituency who told her that Corbyn was what was stopping them voting for her.Roger said:
Did she intend you to make this public?Cyclefree said:
My own MP, Tulip Siddiq, said just this to me before the last election. She told me I should vote for her because after the election Corbyn would be ousted and there would be no chance of him being PM.bigjohnowls said:
The minimum Lab should expect is that their elected representatives should be able to say is that they would prefer a Lab Govt under Jezza than a Tory one under TM.Nigelb said:
And how’s that working out for Labour ?bigjohnowls said:How many of 7 had already lost a VONC from their CLPs
CL - Yes
CU - Yes
AS - Yes
GS - Yes
AC - ?
LB - 2 tabled but withdrawn
MG - ?
Unfortunately the not so magnificent 7 even couldnt meet this minimum requirement.
I doubt she was the only MP saying this.0 -
She's an ex-BBC insider who relies on a soft ride from her mates in the media.Casino_Royale said:
Very wise. She’d be great and have superb appeal.Theuniondivvie said:Almost certainly bollox, but if not, how dumb are these people?
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1097494309774000128
The only reason you don’t like her is she’s a Scottish Unionist frustrating your ambitions.0 -
Here is the email I have just received from Jeremy -
Dear Kinabalu,
Our country is in crisis and needs a Labour Government.
Our opponents are the Tories, not each other, and it's disappointing that a small group of MPs have felt unable to continue to work together for the Labour policies that inspired millions at the last election and saw us increase our vote by the largest share since 1945.
Labour won people over on a programme for the many not the few – redistributing wealth and power, taking vital resources into public ownership, investing in every region and nation, and tackling climate change.
The Conservative Government is bungling Brexit, while Labour has set out a credible alternative, keeping all options on the table, including a public vote to stop a disastrous 'no deal' Brexit.
When millions are facing the misery of Universal Credit, rising crime, homelessness and poverty, now more than ever is the time to bring people together to build a better future for us all. For those millions the only solution is a Labour Government that will invest in and transform our country.
That's why we must be united – not for ourselves but to deliver a Labour Government.
Yours, Jeremy
Not sure how best to reply. I want to say something warm and supportive back but I do not want him to get the impression that I am just some sort of yes-man without a mind of my own.0 -
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What was the reason?Richard_Nabavi said:LOL at Len McCluskey:
“They stood as Labour MPs on a platform in the general election 18 months ago. All of them got massive increases in their majorities. I have to tell them it wasn’t because of their own personal charisma. It was because of a manifesto which promised to respect the 2016 referendum and take us out of Europe, so all of their heartbreak sounds a little bit hollow.”
Ah, so that's the explanation for the 2017 increase in the Labour vote. It was a vote against staying in the EU. Glad we've got that cleared up.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Toying with the idea of a tiny bet on the new not-yet-a-party doing rather well next time.0 -
If Labour disintegrates, there must be a fair chance the Conservatives would also do so. What's left to hold them together if Labour are no longer a threat?SeanT said:
Go on, attack her, Attack her violently and viciously. That will create more defectors...Danny565 said:Meanwhile, one of the 7 valiant anti-racists has suggested that woman of colour Ash Sarkar has a "funny tint":
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1097484510676029440
This could be just the beginning of Labour's breakdown. They may not splinter, they might shatter.
Delicious.0 -
I'm sure their brain-storming came up with some cracking "out the box" thinking.Scott_P said:
Chapter 7 - Getting off the ground.
"What about Gary Lineker as our leader?" Chuka's countenance slipped into a scowl. "We don't want to be associated with fast food. Not great with the yummy-mummy demographic", he added. "It's the yummy-mummies that buy his bloody crisps" Mike Gapes countered, refusing to let his idea go.
Only eight more hours of this, thought Anna.0 -
Jacob Rees Mogg has impeccable timing given the Honda news
https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/10975016078293606410 -
.....and for Shamima Begum for the same reason. Good for you. Most people don'tEl_Capitano said:0 -
Much the same reason as the big increase in LibDem support in 2010.bigjohnowls said:
What was the reason?Richard_Nabavi said:LOL at Len McCluskey:
“They stood as Labour MPs on a platform in the general election 18 months ago. All of them got massive increases in their majorities. I have to tell them it wasn’t because of their own personal charisma. It was because of a manifesto which promised to respect the 2016 referendum and take us out of Europe, so all of their heartbreak sounds a little bit hollow.”
Ah, so that's the explanation for the 2017 increase in the Labour vote. It was a vote against staying in the EU. Glad we've got that cleared up.0 -
And they seemed so gooey and loving only last week.
https://twitter.com/Honda_UK/status/10960011299288924170 -
Outside of their Brexit voting, look at rest of the voting patterns of the possible Conservative defectors. They really don't look like easy bed-fellows for the Seven.Sean_F said:
If Labour disintegrates, there must be a fair chance the Conservatives would also do so. What's left to hold them together if Labour are no longer a threat?SeanT said:
Go on, attack her, Attack her violently and viciously. That will create more defectors...Danny565 said:Meanwhile, one of the 7 valiant anti-racists has suggested that woman of colour Ash Sarkar has a "funny tint":
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1097484510676029440
This could be just the beginning of Labour's breakdown. They may not splinter, they might shatter.
Delicious.0
