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It was a shocking wake up moment for a lot of us.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
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Have you not seen the Fife result?Anorak said:Holy shit. I've just seen Zac's result. Squeakier than a barrel full of mice.
SNP win by 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/S14000049
Or Perth and North Pertshire
SNP win by 21
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/S140000540 -
Osborne looked incredibly glum when the seats were all falling to Labour and we were wobbling badly and underperforming the exit poll. He still wants the party to succeed. He needs to come back.rkrkrk said:
The budget is old news now I hope? And perhaps can be blamed on TM?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. rkrkrk, Hammond's stock fell a lot after his stand-up routine at the Budget. He might get it, and I'd prefer him to Boris, but not enthusiastic.
Osborne really is a muppet. He'd be PM by lunchtime if he hadn't decided he wanted six jobs rather than five (I wonder if he regrets his vendetta agenda as a cause of the dire result, or feels vindicated by May's meltdown).
Osborne looked vindicated on TV. He was also I have to say very good at explaining results and pulling out key pieces of information. Put quite a few journalists to shame and didn't pull his ounches about the impact of the result.0 -
Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.0
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You could still win your bet with Sean if I've understood it correctly.williamglenn said:If the DUP won't countenance special status for Northern Ireland in the EU, and they won't countenance a hard border with Ireland, then the cost of a deal will have to be that we forget any idea of leaving the single market and customs union.
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Slept for a couple of hours and it is still a disaster for the UK albeit a good result for Scotland. May's total vote and share of the vote is actually quite impressive, it's Labour's surge and collection of the opposing votes that has undone her.
I don't see how she survives in anything other than a caretaker role and surely only months even then.0 -
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AgreedPeter_the_Punter said:
You are playing Party Politics. The situation is serious. Six months? We've got to get through the next six days first and nobody has a clue where we go from here, least of all the hapless bunch that got us into this f*cking mess.Robert_Of_Sheffield said:
Ask them today, and the voters would probably blame the Tories, but in aix months?Peter_the_Punter said:
Who will the voters blame for the mess?Robert_Of_Sheffield said:I've just heard John McDonnell on the BBC, basically saying Labour can form a minority government without making any formal deals with other parties, an option he firmly ruled out.
He said they'd write a Queen's speech enacting the Labour manifesto, which he thought would get majority support in the Commons. He asked who'd dare vote against abolishing tuition fees.
If Labour do try that approach, it will be a fiasco, and another election will look likely. The question then will be who voters blame for the mess.
I think the voters have a pretty good idea who to blame for the current mess, Robert, don't you? And if you don't you'll get a pretty good idea who when they go to the polls again, which may in fact be fairly soon.
If we have six months of Labour politicians talking about their grand ideas on TV, and complaining that none of the other parties will vote for them while showing absolutely no willingness to compromise the public mood might well change.
Let's see who stands up tall, and talks some sense, and we'll leave the speculation about 'the public mood' until the dust has settled a bit.
I was slightly surprised that the "voice of reason" this morning on Today was IDS.
He more or less said what you did-although i dont recall the F***ing mess bit !!
Although privately he is probably screaming the place down0 -
Don't panic Larry the cat is in charge0
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Amen brother!AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
Especially if Farage becomes leader again.0 -
He should be awarded both Poster and Tipster Of The Year on the spot.Floater said:
It was a shocking wake up moment for a lot of us.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
I've known David through these pages for many years, and met him, and when he was downbeat, I took it more seriously than any of Survation's polls. Saved me a few quid, I can tell you.
Hope the lad is OK. He's got a lot on.
He's a diamond.0 -
Nigel Evans criticising TMay. Do not find yourself alone with the DUP in the Elizabeth Tower, Nige.0
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Zac is next door, so more curious about that one. Very surprised he made it, given the shellacking handed out to the Tories in Twickers and Bentford.TheScreamingEagles said:
Have you not seen the Fife result?Anorak said:Holy shit. I've just seen Zac's result. Squeakier than a barrel full of mice.
SNP win by 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/S14000049
Or Perth and North Pertshire
SNP win by 21
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/S140000540 -
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Absolutely - and it had the essential quality of being widely derided at the time.AlastairMeeks said:
Agreed.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
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Absolutely, I'm hopeful he'll do a thread tomorrow morning.Peter_the_Punter said:
He should be awarded both Poster and Tipster Of The Year on the spot.Floater said:
It was a shocking wake up moment for a lot of us.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
I've known David through these pages for many years, and met him, and when he was downbeat, I took it more seriously than any of Survation's polls. Saved me a few quid, I can tell you.
Hope the lad is OK. He's got a lot on.
He's a diamond.0 -
And can I congratulate you on your long-standing and perspicacious assessment of May's qualities (or lack thereof).TheScreamingEagles said:
Have you not seen the Fife result?Anorak said:Holy shit. I've just seen Zac's result. Squeakier than a barrel full of mice.
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I voted Tory through gritted teeth yesterday but only to support Ruth Davidson and not in anyway to support May. May's hope of a hard Brexit is dead. The Scottish Tories were not elected on a mandate for a hard Brexit and Ruth has clearly stated she does not support one.
My son who is at Edinburgh Uni went back to Edinburgh to vote Labour for the first time in his life and despite thinking their whole manifesto was rubbish. In addition almost all his friends did the same. This was about the youth vote showing it wanted to be noticed.
It is not too far to go that almost single handed Ruth Davidson has saved the union. She had the temerity to stand up to the SNP and her success has finally woken up Labour in Scotland.
So an ultra soft Brexit and no independence appears the route forward. The only question is who will lead the country. I am thinking Hammond. He has been very quiet.
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The post said that he thought Wakefield would still be won, but for local reasons.another_richard said:
Indeed but in a way not.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
The Conservatives got their best ever vote in Wakefield with an 11% increase.
DH and his team did their stuff.
And they did even better in adjacent Morley constituency.
The Conservative failing was in other places.0 -
I have to say the more I think about it the more I feel this is an almost ideal result for me. I think exactly 326 seats would have been ideal as it would have meant Theresa still being knifed but there would be literally no danger of Corbyn coming in or having to ask for S&C from any other party.TheScreamingEagles said:George's closest confidant speaks
https://twitter.com/rbrharrison/status/8730768716168396800 -
Con Hold Cornwall North.0
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I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.0
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Leader of what? Does UKIP still exist after last night?TheScreamingEagles said:
Amen brother!AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
Especially if Farage becomes leader again.0 -
Never been so worried after reading a single post.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
Perhaps Tories need to send people undercover is strong labour wards to find the strength of the opposition vote. You can hit your own target voters but it's no use if every single potential labour voter turns out.0 -
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.The_Apocalypse said:
Ken Clarke says otherwise.Roger said:Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
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I hoped she would prove me wrong.Anorak said:
And can I congratulate you on your long-standing and perspicacious assessment of May's qualities (or lack thereof).TheScreamingEagles said:
Have you not seen the Fife result?Anorak said:Holy shit. I've just seen Zac's result. Squeakier than a barrel full of mice.
She's shafted so many good Tories.0 -
Assuming Lab gain Kensington, it's:
Con + DUP 328
Opposition 315
Total 643 (exc SF)
Majority 130 -
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
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Nah, the people spoke.Roger said:
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.The_Apocalypse said:
Ken Clarke says otherwise.Roger said:Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
Brexit would have been even messier if we had no referendum and say in 2020 Dave's replacement put in the Tory manifesto to pull us out of the EU and they won a majority on 35% of the vote0 -
No, I meant Ken Clarke was the best Tory leader they never had.Roger said:
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.The_Apocalypse said:
Ken Clarke says otherwise.Roger said:Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
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I was calling for the same. I think I may have been one of the infamous "bedwetters" for doing so...another_richard said:
I still don't understand why they didn't.MaxPB said:
That's always been dead, I've never believed otherwise. I was on here (and telling irl Tories) saying that the government should have run on meeting the Labour Leave campaign pledges like £350m per week for the NHS.old_labour said:
Your dry as dust libertarianism is dead.MaxPB said:
Roll on Brexit for the 60%. It's where we should have been from the beginning, not trying to get hard Brexit through on the back of 20% of voters and Tory voters who had nowhere else to go.FF43 said:Apparently Davies pushed hardest for an election and isn't popular with his cabinet colleagues. Big takeaway from this result is that the Conservative tack to UKIP has failed tactically. I am as surprised as anyone by that. Too many Kippers went Labour. UKIP are dead as a party, so there's no point pandering to them anymore. The centre ground is where the Tories need to be.
That was a real open goal.0 -
Like I said, on average the poll was spot on. Seats is overpredicted the Consanother_richard said:
Didn't it expect the Conservatives to make gain in North Wales ?not_on_fire said:
Hardly surprising there were errors given the number of seats decide by less than 1000 votes. But on average the poll was spot onanother_richard said:Re the Exit Poll.
They got quite a few things wrong - but their errors cancelled out.
If all their errors had been the same way we would now either have a Con Maj or PM Corbyn.
You need to exclude the SpeakerMikeL said:Assuming Lab gain Kensington, it's:
Con + DUP 328
Opposition 315
Total 643 (exc SF)
Majority 130 -
Hey, I believe I started hating on her first. It was the ill thought out grammar schools plan/announcement. That was the day I decided she was crap, selective education can be a good thing, but it needs to be selective at all levels, not just one. That was when the veil lifted for me.Anorak said:
And can I congratulate you on your long-standing and perspicacious assessment of May's qualities (or lack thereof).TheScreamingEagles said:
Have you not seen the Fife result?Anorak said:Holy shit. I've just seen Zac's result. Squeakier than a barrel full of mice.
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God yes. May made a host of mistakes but that is right up there.MaxPB said:
Osborne looked incredibly glum when the seats were all falling to Labour and we were wobbling badly and underperforming the exit poll. He still wants the party to succeed. He needs to come back.rkrkrk said:
The budget is old news now I hope? And perhaps can be blamed on TM?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. rkrkrk, Hammond's stock fell a lot after his stand-up routine at the Budget. He might get it, and I'd prefer him to Boris, but not enthusiastic.
Osborne really is a muppet. He'd be PM by lunchtime if he hadn't decided he wanted six jobs rather than five (I wonder if he regrets his vendetta agenda as a cause of the dire result, or feels vindicated by May's meltdown).
Osborne looked vindicated on TV. He was also I have to say very good at explaining results and pulling out key pieces of information. Put quite a few journalists to shame and didn't pull his ounches about the impact of the result.0 -
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
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I dont think it was derided-there was a question as to whether it was genuine as it was so out of character but i think most people listened to what he said-some bet accordingly -most were more concerned for him as an individual as he was obviously very tired as he later said himself.Nigelb said:
Absolutely - and it had the essential quality of being widely derided at the time.AlastairMeeks said:
Agreed.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
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There really was no need for him to resign though, it made an uncertain situation more chaotic than need be.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, the people spoke.Roger said:
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.The_Apocalypse said:
Ken Clarke says otherwise.Roger said:Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
Brexit would have been even messier if we had no referendum and say in 2020 Dave's replacement put in the Tory manifesto to pull us out of the EU and they won a majority on 35% of the vote0 -
Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.0 -
I suppose the other takeaway is that the Cons should have a proper leadership contest next time - not a coronation - they don't seem to work.0
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I'm looking at the same silver lining. It's a very thin one, though.MaxPB said:
I have to say the more I think about it the more I feel this is an almost ideal result for me. I think exactly 326 seats would have been ideal as it would have meant Theresa still being knifed but there would be literally no danger of Corbyn coming in or having to ask for S&C from any other party.TheScreamingEagles said:George's closest confidant speaks
https://twitter.com/rbrharrison/status/8730768716168396800 -
No. Lab supplies two deputy speakers, Con supply one. None of the four vote.not_on_fire said:
Like I said, on average the poll was spot on. Seats is overpredicted the Consanother_richard said:
Didn't it expect the Conservatives to make gain in North Wales ?not_on_fire said:
Hardly surprising there were errors given the number of seats decide by less than 1000 votes. But on average the poll was spot onanother_richard said:Re the Exit Poll.
They got quite a few things wrong - but their errors cancelled out.
If all their errors had been the same way we would now either have a Con Maj or PM Corbyn.
You need to exclude the SpeakerMikeL said:Assuming Lab gain Kensington, it's:
Con + DUP 328
Opposition 315
Total 643 (exc SF)
Majority 13
Which is why BBC count Speaker as Con.0 -
She's resigning today.AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.0 -
Not yetFloater said:I had a nightmare last night, woke up this morning to find it was real.
At least Corbyn shouldn't get the keys to number 10 but still.........0 -
DUP willing to keep May in Office - not a surprise after Forster's earlier remarks.0
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Wonder how many people voted Labour thinking it was "safe" to do so, given that they were apparently so far behind in the polls there was no way they would ever come anywhere near actually winning?0
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Totally agree, the more and more I think about it, this feels like a worse result than 1997.JohnO said:Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.
To be only ahead of Corbyn by 1.4% means an epic failure on so many levels.0 -
Should Nicola resign ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
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We can't go for hard brexit now, just get EEA/EFTA take the hit and make the best of it.
The tories need to hold on until someone at least liveable with is in charge of the labour party.0 -
Stonking majorities. Support firming up.TheScreamingEagles said:
Have you not seen the Fife result?Anorak said:Holy shit. I've just seen Zac's result. Squeakier than a barrel full of mice.
SNP win by 2
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/S14000049
Or Perth and North Pertshire
SNP win by 21
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/constituencies/S14000054
Fife NE was not won by a whisker, it was won by a panda.0 -
Ok, you can have a cookie too. London house prices look set to fall, that must cheer you up a bit...MaxPB said:
Hey, I believe I started hating on her first. It was the ill thought out grammar schools plan/announcement. That was the day I decided she was crap, selective education can be a good thing, but it needs to be selective at all levels, not just one. That was when the veil lifted for me.Anorak said:
And can I congratulate you on your long-standing and perspicacious assessment of May's qualities (or lack thereof).TheScreamingEagles said:
Have you not seen the Fife result?Anorak said:Holy shit. I've just seen Zac's result. Squeakier than a barrel full of mice.
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Not according to the BBC just now, she isn't. She thinks she can hang on.Peter_the_Punter said:
She's resigning today.AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
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Not sure, but it proves that you should never ever assume that an election is in the bag for anyone as you go to vote !LucyJones said:Wonder how many people voted Labour thinking it was "safe" to do so, given that they were apparently so far behind in the polls there was no way they would ever come anywhere near actually winning?
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Er, the Tories have 297 of 533 English seats.Alistair said:Have we talked about EVEL yet? Tories will have nothing close to a majority for English legislation. 12 Tory MPs and the 10 DUP are locked out.
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Commisserations John. You deserved better even if the Government didn't.JohnO said:Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.
Would Ken Clarke do as an interim replacement until the Party sorts itself out a bit? It really can't afford another f*ck up and he is totally dependable and trusted.0 -
2.4% (UK)TheScreamingEagles said:
Totally agree, the more and more I think about it, this feels like a worse result than 1997.JohnO said:Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.
To be only ahead of Corbyn by 1.4% means an epic failure on so many levels.0 -
Glad I dont bet on politics, last night was traumatic enough without that0
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Yes, at least with Blair he was essentially running a fairly Tory spending plan, this feels like "one more mistake and we're handing over the keys of No 10 to a lunatic". There is literally no room for error and we don't have the respite of opposition to regroup and find the kind of talent needed for the next few years.TheScreamingEagles said:
Totally agree, the more and more I think about it, this feels like a worse result than 1997.JohnO said:Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.
To be only ahead of Corbyn by 1.4% means an epic failure on so many levels.0 -
If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it's that one should avoid saying an issue is settled or finished or decided.TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
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Perhaps the same number who voted for Brexit thinking it wouldn't win?LucyJones said:Wonder how many people voted Labour thinking it was "safe" to do so, given that they were apparently so far behind in the polls there was no way they would ever come anywhere near actually winning?
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Agree with that.TheScreamingEagles said:George's closest confidant speaks
https://twitter.com/rbrharrison/status/873076871616839680
Thankfully May's deficiencies were exposed now before she could do long term damage in the Brexit divorce proceedings.0 -
Cameron told us he would not resign if we voted to Leave. We voted to Leave. He resigned.isam said:
There really was no need for him to resign though, it made an uncertain situation more chaotic than need be.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, the people spoke.Roger said:
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.The_Apocalypse said:
Ken Clarke says otherwise.Roger said:Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
Brexit would have been even messier if we had no referendum and say in 2020 Dave's replacement put in the Tory manifesto to pull us out of the EU and they won a majority on 35% of the vote
Cameron bears a significant amount of responsibility for last night. If he hadn't resigned, we would not have had May and then she wouldn't have felt the need to go to the country to get her own mandate from the voters. (Although, I concede that he would have been in a very difficult situation fronting Brexit. So he should have said he would resign if he lost - would probably have been enough to win it for Remain.)0 -
Well blimey.
The other day I wondered on here whether we could be sure that Corbyn in power would ever voluntarily relinquish it. I cited his approval of Maoist regimes and his disregard of things like no confidence votes in support.
The responses were along the lines that existing constitutional constraints would prevent any such thing; oddly nobody suggested that Corbyn himself would never contemplate any such thing.
Here we are this morning and we have Corbyn 55 seats begin declaring victory.
I wasn't wrong about him.0 -
Andy JS....thanks for your spreadsheet...Swindon North convinced me it was safe to pile on NOM.....0
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BBC just said young vote turnout is 72%???0
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Nah, they won the majority of seats.TGOHF said:
Should Nicola resign ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
Unless Theresa, this was not an election she called.0 -
This talk of hard and soft Brexit is nonsense. If we leave the EU we leave the Single Market (inc free movement).hamiltonace said:I voted Tory through gritted teeth yesterday but only to support Ruth Davidson and not in anyway to support May. May's hope of a hard Brexit is dead. The Scottish Tories were not elected on a mandate for a hard Brexit and Ruth has clearly stated she does not support one.
My son who is at Edinburgh Uni went back to Edinburgh to vote Labour for the first time in his life and despite thinking their whole manifesto was rubbish. In addition almost all his friends did the same. This was about the youth vote showing it wanted to be noticed.
It is not too far to go that almost single handed Ruth Davidson has saved the union. She had the temerity to stand up to the SNP and her success has finally woken up Labour in Scotland.
So an ultra soft Brexit and no independence appears the route forward. The only question is who will lead the country. I am thinking Hammond. He has been very quiet.0 -
Obviously the result in Scotland means the people want another referendum - ohTheuniondivvie said:
If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it's that one should avoid saying an issue is settled or finished or decided.TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
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Youth turnout 72%. Seems they could register AND get out of bed. Who'd have thunk it?0
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Theresa May will not fight the next election. The Prime Minister can resign soon, or be forced out later. Those are her only choices.LucyJones said:
Not according to the BBC just now, she isn't. She thinks she can hang on.Peter_the_Punter said:
She's resigning today.AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.0 -
May will get all the blame and carry the can, but the hubris of the Tory back office operation is worth reflecting on too. Both Messina and Crosby have had their reputations destroyed by this result. It was them sending May to those constituencies and putting her in warehouses and security-swept factories.0
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I was actually feeling physically sick at 10 05 last nightFattyBolger said:Glad I dont bet on politics, last night was traumatic enough without that
But hey, life goes on
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To what extend did differential age turnout, compared to predictions, screw up the Tory seat targeting? Or was that screwed up by other factors? Certainly it seems the Tory effort was directed to seats in a sub-optimal way...0
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MaxPB said:
Yes, at least with Blair he was essentially running a fairly Tory spending plan, this feels like "one more mistake and we're handing over the keys of No 10 to a lunatic". There is literally no room for error and we don't have the respite of opposition to regroup and find the kind of talent needed for the next few years.TheScreamingEagles said:
Totally agree, the more and more I think about it, this feels like a worse result than 1997.JohnO said:Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.
To be only ahead of Corbyn by 1.4% means an epic failure on so many levels.
For me it was as exciting as 1997....after all the disappointments of recent years.
Well done to Nick Palmer and BigNight for sticking with Corbyn through thick and thin0 -
Indeed. He would still be a rubbish PM. The problem is, the current PM does not exactly sparkle.Alice_Aforethought said:Well blimey.
The other day I wondered on here whether we could be sure that Corbyn in power would ever voluntarily relinquish it. I cited his approval of Maoist regimes and his disregard of things like no confidence votes in support.
The responses were along the lines that existing constitutional constraints would prevent any such thing; oddly nobody suggested that Corbyn himself would never contemplate any such thing.
Here we are this morning and we have Corbyn 55 seats begin declaring victory.
I wasn't wrong about him.0 -
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).Peter_the_Punter said:
She's resigning today.AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.0 -
I haven't slept.OblitusSumMe said:
Er, the Tories have 297 of 533 English seats.Alistair said:Have we talked about EVEL yet? Tories will have nothing close to a majority for English legislation. 12 Tory MPs and the 10 DUP are locked out.
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Theresa May to visit the palace at 12.30pm to seek permission to form a government.0
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May seeking permission from Queen to form government - lets lock out Jezza0
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The strangest election since the 1920's. May's strategy almost paid off. The Tories did gain strongly in many working class areas, but mostly not by enough. And, they alienated middle class Remainers.
The government, even though weak, may last a long time, as only a Conservative government is viable on these numbers.0 -
I am looking forward to hearing some stories from tissue price. Such a shame he couldn't pull it off this time, though maybe he will have to stay quiet in case he has another try soon.0
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Surely she has to resign today, her authority, in Parlt, in the country and vs the EU, is not just diminished, in my view it is irredemiably broken. She must announce she she is standing down0
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This. She'll go when another leading Tory decides they want to take over.DecrepitJohnL said:
Theresa May will not fight the next election. The Prime Minister can resign soon, or be forced out later. Those are her only choices.LucyJones said:
Not according to the BBC just now, she isn't. She thinks she can hang on.Peter_the_Punter said:
She's resigning today.AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.0 -
Also her main (only) rival , Eck , is without a seat.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, they won the majority of seats.TGOHF said:
Should Nicola resign ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
Unless Theresa, this was not an election she called.0 -
Oh yes you were. You under-estimated him. Now May is in coalition with terrorist apologists and young Earth creationists.Alice_Aforethought said:Well blimey.
The other day I wondered on here whether we could be sure that Corbyn in power would ever voluntarily relinquish it. I cited his approval of Maoist regimes and his disregard of things like no confidence votes in support.
The responses were along the lines that existing constitutional constraints would prevent any such thing; oddly nobody suggested that Corbyn himself would never contemplate any such thing.
Here we are this morning and we have Corbyn 55 seats begin declaring victory.
I wasn't wrong about him.0 -
I'd have to check, but my memory is that it was, while not universally by any means, widely rejected as a prediction, despite the clear respect and affection he's held in.RepublicanTory said:
I dont think it was derided-there was a question as to whether it was genuine as it was so out of character but i think most people listened to what he said-some bet accordingly -most were more concerned for him as an individual as he was obviously very tired as he later said himself.Nigelb said:
Absolutely - and it had the essential quality of being widely derided at the time.AlastairMeeks said:
Agreed.ThomasNashe said:I think there can be no question about the PB 'post of the year': David Herdson's post on Wednesday evening.
A lot of comments about how a 'bad street' can happen to anyone while canvassing.0 -
Hills have yet to settle on 10/1 against Over 65% Turnout, No Overall Majority. One result left.0
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He lied to the House, repeatedly.MarqueeMark said:
Cameron told us he would not resign if we voted to Leave. We voted to Leave. He resigned.isam said:
There really was no need for him to resign though, it made an uncertain situation more chaotic than need be.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, the people spoke.Roger said:
Does he blame him for this mess? If so unfair in my opinion. Cameron is the villain. History will judge him as the worst PM ever.The_Apocalypse said:
Ken Clarke says otherwise.Roger said:Just been listening to George O. Must be in line for the best Tory leader they never had
Brexit would have been even messier if we had no referendum and say in 2020 Dave's replacement put in the Tory manifesto to pull us out of the EU and they won a majority on 35% of the vote0 -
Very true.Theuniondivvie said:
If the last couple of years have taught us anything, it's that one should avoid saying an issue is settled or finished or decided.TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
Whilst I expecting the SCon surge, and a good performance from the Lib Dems, was not expecting the SLAB surge.0 -
The Conservatives should stop worrying about their own mood and start thinking about the mood of the country. This could get ugly.AlastairMeeks said:
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).Peter_the_Punter said:
She's resigning today.AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
A little contrition wouldn't go amiss.0 -
I'm spending some time in my own dungeons with Mrs JackW in charge of the my wallet. Cruel and unusual punishment I tell you .... but deserved ....JohnO said:Clocking in bloodied and humiliated after three hours in the Hersham stocks being lashed 100 times at one end by monks from the Order of the Psephologians and on the other pelted with the yolks of 319 rotten eggs.
But if my reputation as a sage is er, well and truly f**ked, that's nothing compared to Mrs M and the zombie administration she will soon be leading. Of course, she should go...but to be replaced by whom and when?? Almost all the putative successors are not much less crap than she is. Please not David Davis, please no.
So we're condemned to 'governing' (sic) until it likely all falls apart sometime in the not too distant future. If there's a way out that ends well for the party from this self inflicted imbroglio I can't see it. At least not today.
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She kind of has to do that I guess. But it's a real mess.TheScreamingEagles said:Theresa May to visit the palace at 12.30pm to seek permission to form a government.
Keeping corbyn out of No10 has to be the priority, Even if it means allowing labour to win in the future with a more reasonable leader.0 -
BBC -- Dimbleby, Neil and Laura K all seem very tired and are making verbal slips. The BBC needs to think about more reasonable shifts next time.0
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Hard to see who that Unity candidate would be though.AlastairMeeks said:
Well she should. The difficult bit is working out how to manage the transition or whether the Conservatives go straight to a unity candidate (they don't seem in the mood for that).Peter_the_Punter said:
She's resigning today.AlastairMeeks said:Could Paul Nuttall hurry up and resign after his lamentable performance? Some of us have bets riding on him doing so and I don't want it spoiled by the Prime Minister succumbing to a bout of integrity.
I suppose it is just possible Nuttall beats her to it but otherwise go directly to Betfair, now.
Rory, your time is now!0 -
Who is likely to be SNP leader at Westminster?TGOHF said:
Also her main (only) rival , Eck , is without a seat.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, they won the majority of seats.TGOHF said:
Should Nicola resign ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I don't wish to pick at a sore point, but does this mean Indyref2 is off the table until at least the mid 2020s?Theuniondivvie said:
Perhaps it did, but not quite in the way intended.dixiedean said:I see "Enough is Enough" really cut through.
Unless Theresa, this was not an election she called.
Pete Wishart?0
