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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB/Polling Matters podcast: Election eve special

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    GideonWiseGideonWise Posts: 1,123
    So now the polls are getting better and the canvassing is going in the opposite direction!

    Be glad when this election is over.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Can someone explain to me why ICM have the Conservatives at 47% in the detailed tables but it is announced as 46%?

    47% is the figure before the spiral of silence adjustment.

    46% is the post spiral of silence adjustment

    Look at table 5, not table 4
    Cheers.

    So ICM have found noisy Tories.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    HYUFD said:
    Subsample heaven. The gigantic swing to the Tories in the NE, if true, would explain a lot of Tory activity up there. Conversely, though, the negligible swing in both West and East Midlands would save a lot of Labour seats. The swing to Labour in SE (outside London) and SW doesn't help much beyond a few seats.

    That said, we know better than to overdose on subsamples.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144
    Chameleon said:

    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Final Comres swings by region since 2015

    London
    Cons 42
    Lab 41
    LD 11
    Swing 4.5% Labour to Cons

    Scotland
    Cons 27
    Lab 16
    SNP 45
    LD 9
    Swing 8.5% SNP to Tory
    http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Independent_FINAL-VI-and-Political-Poll_7th-June-2017_130392.pdf

    Obviously difficult to draw too many conclusions about sub samples, but they don't look right to me.
    London & SE swinging heavily to lab makes sense.
    SW swinging to Labour looks like the LibDem tactical voting unwinding.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    I've traded out of Tory majority. For now.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Final Comres swings by region since 2015

    London
    Cons 42
    Lab 41
    LD 11
    Swing 4.5% Labour to Cons

    Scotland
    Cons 27
    Lab 16
    SNP 45
    LD 9
    Swing 8.5% SNP to Tory
    http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Independent_FINAL-VI-and-Political-Poll_7th-June-2017_130392.pdf

    Obviously difficult to draw too many conclusions about sub samples, but they don't look right to me.
    We will find out tomorrow but it looks like Labour is getting a swing to it in the South but everywhere else is swinging Tory, especially the North, Wales and Scotland
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    I'm rather concerned about his state of mind - stress and overwork I expect.

    Lets consider his comment - Con at 300 but still gain Wakefield.

    If the Conservatives gain Wakefield they're likely to gain at least 20 seats so to fall to 300 they would need to lose at least 50 which they presently hold.

    Now does anyone think that likely ?

    And what's brought on this change of mind - some leafleting in Wakefield or Hemsworth ?
    Another PBer had also just said in that thread that they'd finished leafletting, and thought the Conservatives were on 360+ so I think you may be right there.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,713
    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Both.
    But not mixed together!
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,350

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    Is he OK? Really didn't sound like him.
    No, he's pissed off. In fact, he's fuming.

    He might be wrong as well but the response on the doorstep this evening was not healthy (from a Con viewpoint). Maybe I was just unlucky with who I spoke to (or who spoke to me) but it's a week since I've done serious canvassing as I've been delivering for most of the interim and the mood was definitely changed.

    Sorry for posting that and then buggering off. Dinner and baby duties.

    Sorry to hear that, David, but relax and enjoy what's left of the evening.

    It sounds like a 'bad sample' to me. Sure you'll feel better in the morning.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Hung Parliament would be heavenly for me. Won't happen though.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    So - YouGov.

    Either -

    a) full of shit for the past 10 days

    b) decided to herd

    c) they have picked up on a massive late swing against Corbyn

    d) a combo of the above.

    e) Tonight's poll is a "rogue poll" for their series but just happens to be their final one and thus the one they'll get judged upon.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    kle4 said:

    I am still going to have to vote Tory just in case...The free baby better be tasty, going with the chargrilled option.

    Boiled for me please, it's my first time.
    You have the night to sleep on it.

    Such a thing to have on your conscience for the next five years...
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Con +7 doesn't guarantee a Con Maj if LDs are up in vote share and on top of that more efficient as well.

    However Con supporters should be pleased with tonight's polls - because they show the fall in the lead has stopped - things have stabilised.

    That could be the precursor to a last minute swing towards Con in the polling booth.

    Even Kantar leader and economy fundamentals are better for Con than headline VI - which might also suggest a few people bottle it at the last minute.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    If , and I accept it is a big if , the Yougov poll is correct , there will be hardly any net seats changing hands . With UNS the Lib Dems would lose no seats either .
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Final Comres swings by region since 2015

    NorthEast
    Cons 44
    Lab 41
    LD 9
    Swing 12.5% Labour to Cons

    NorthWest
    Cons 42
    Lab 45
    LD 6
    Swing 5.5% Labour to Cons

    Yorkshire and Humber
    Cons 46
    Lab 41
    LD 7
    Swing 5.5% Labour to Cons

    West Midlands
    Cons 46
    Lab 34
    LD 10
    Swing 1.5% Labour to Cons

    East Midlands
    Cons 51
    Lab 35
    LD 3
    Swing 2% Labour to Cons

    Wales
    Cons 40
    Lab 38
    LD 5
    Swing 6% Labour to Cons

    East
    Cons 51
    Lab 30
    LD 12
    Swing 3% Cons to Labour

    London
    Cons 42
    Lab 41
    LD 11
    Swing 4.5% Labour to Cons

    South East
    Cons 47
    Lab 29
    LD 13
    Swing 7.5% Cons to Labour

    South West
    Cons 49
    Lab 29
    LD 12
    Swing 4.5% Cons to Labour

    Scotland
    Cons 27
    Lab 16
    SNP 45
    LD 9
    Swing 8.5% SNP to Tory
    http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Independent_FINAL-VI-and-Political-Poll_7th-June-2017_130392.pdf

    Pretty big swings to Lab in the South - not a worry for Con, whose seats are safe, but for the LDs and their future prospects?

    I'm expecting Lab to get second in many seats round here.
    Yes the LDs will get squeezed again
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    Can someone explain to me why ICM have the Conservatives at 47% in the detailed tables but it is announced as 46%?

    47% is the figure before the spiral of silence adjustment.

    46% is the post spiral of silence adjustment

    Look at table 5, not table 4
    Cheers.

    So ICM have found noisy Tories.
    More shy Labour supporters.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    If it was anyone else but you, I'd probably discount it.
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    ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 165

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    Rest up David. We will be home comfotrably. Well done you for running two.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,369
    So only survation at 11.00 to come if I am right. Assume they could show a labour lead but it will miss the press and media tomorrow if it is as late as that
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    The narrative of 'they're all just harmless bunglers' was bought by the Police.

    How can someone wave the ISIS flag about and not get arrested? What a joke

    https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/872383495112450048
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    tlg86 said:

    Can I just say, I don't know why the Tories on here are worried. Their worst poll in the whole campaign has had them on 40%. ICM have them comfortably ahead. It's just a question of how badly distributed Labour's votes are and therefore how big the Tory majority is.

    I'm not a Tory. I'd have been a bit upset if Milliband had won, but because I thought he was a bit useless and his social democratic paradigm no longer works because globalism etc.

    But that loathesome crew, Corbyn, the whole grisly crew . Milne being any where the levers of power.
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    Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    edited June 2017
    Well either YouGov is indicating a move to the Conservatives/from Labour or they've blinked on their polling methods.

    I think, however, that those pollsters who boosted the younger peoples vote percentages are on to something even if they have magnified beyond the actual vote. I can see many good reasons why the university going young will vote Labour, its like 'here, have some free stuff!'

    Whats not to like. Its self interest, one of the the most powerful motivators.

    I think too some may have a score to settle over Brexit, at least in their own heads, that it was stolen..whilst they didn't bother their collective arses actually voting..

    I have, on the other hand, never understood the cult like nature of much of the modern politically active left or the cult over Corbyn but it exists.

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    madasafishmadasafish Posts: 659

    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Both.
    But not mixed together!
    I have half a bottle of Sainsbury's expensive whisky and then a litre of Blue Sapphire gin so I won't recognise the results, won't care and will feel very ill Friday....
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    Apologies for that. I'll be disappearing for another 20 mins now. More domestics.

    Sorry to put the cat among them but I'm calling it as I see and hear it.

    Just to confirm, the 300 was in retrospect overdoing it but I wouldn't be buying over 325.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    edited June 2017

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    Oh well, if Mr Corbyn becomes PM at least there will be lots to talk about. Not so sure where the betting opportunities will be, though.

    edited to add: good evening, everyone.
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    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    So still tonight;'s survation, and someone said on twitter Ipsos tomorrow. That it? No more ORB?
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    GooeyBlobGooeyBlob Posts: 5
    Have YouGov not done this in the previous two elections, or is my memory playing tricks on me? I seem to recall they overstated Labour more than other pollsters throughout those campaigns only to move back in their very final poll.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554

    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Both.
    But not mixed together!
    Obviously. I'm not a barbarian.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    I'm rather concerned about his state of mind - stress and overwork I expect.

    Lets consider his comment - Con at 300 but still gain Wakefield.

    If the Conservatives gain Wakefield they're likely to gain at least 20 seats so to fall to 300 they would need to lose at least 50 which they presently hold.

    Now does anyone think that likely ?

    And what's brought on this change of mind - some leafleting in Wakefield or Hemsworth ?
    Another PBer had also just said in that thread that they'd finished leafletting, and thought the Conservatives were on 360+ so I think you may be right there.
    The other possibility is that, like Alastair Meeks said a few weeks ago, individual seats could swing wildly all over the place, but, given a person can only be in one place at one time, extrapolations from that to form the national picture may be wildly incorrect.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    I know TSE is not a May fan, but I think he's right to emphasis the well/badly rating change. Not perfect, to be sure, but its such a massive change.
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    I am still going to have to vote Tory just in case...The free baby better be tasty, going with the chargrilled option.

    Boiled for me please, it's my first time.
    You have the night to sleep on it.

    Such a thing to have on your conscience for the next five years...
    When the choices before one are reasonable, one does not need to feel guilty even if, in time, the choice taken is proven to be incorrect.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    MikeL said:

    Con +7 doesn't guarantee a Con Maj if LDs are up in vote share and on top of that more efficient as well.

    However Con supporters should be pleased with tonight's polls - because they show the fall in the lead has stopped - things have stabilised.

    That could be the precursor to a last minute swing towards Con in the polling booth.

    Even Kantar leader and economy fundamentals are better for Con than headline VI - which might also suggest a few people bottle it at the last minute.

    The turning point was Question Time on Friday, IMO.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164

    If , and I accept it is a big if , the Yougov poll is correct , there will be hardly any net seats changing hands . With UNS the Lib Dems would lose no seats either .

    Though it looks like there certainly will not be UNS if Comres is anything to go by, there will be a swing to Labour in the South and the Tories in the Midlands, the North, Wales and Scotland. Of course in 2015 Yougov had it tied in their final poll
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    Apologies for that. I'll be disappearing for another 20 mins now. More domestics.

    Sorry to put the cat among them but I'm calling it as I see and hear it.

    Just to confirm, the 300 was in retrospect overdoing it but I wouldn't be buying over 325.
    Get some rest. Thanks for all your hard work.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,517

    If , and I accept it is a big if , the Yougov poll is correct , there will be hardly any net seats changing hands . With UNS the Lib Dems would lose no seats either .

    UNS (I know, I know) suggests Tory majority of 60-odd.

    Isn't it the case that there's a range of variables in a 7 point lead? You could be looking at anything from only very minor advances to a fairly substantial win.
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    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    Apologies for that. I'll be disappearing for another 20 mins now. More domestics.

    Sorry to put the cat among them but I'm calling it as I see and hear it.

    Just to confirm, the 300 was in retrospect overdoing it but I wouldn't be buying over 325.
    Get some rest. Thanks for all your hard work.
    +1
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    IanB2 said:

    YouGov's mega model also suggests the reemergence of tactical voting as the campaign closes....no change in Tory/Labour VI, but projecting more Labour and more LibDem seats and fewer Tory...


    Where ?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    I must say, I do think Keiran has over these podcasts shown himself to be a pretty decent pundit and presenter.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,790
    HYUFD said:

    Final Comres swings by region since 2015

    NorthEast
    Cons 44
    Lab 41
    LD 9
    Swing 12.5% Labour to Cons

    NorthWest
    Cons 42
    Lab 45
    LD 6
    Swing 5.5% Labour to Cons

    Yorkshire and Humber
    Cons 46
    Lab 41
    LD 7
    Swing 5.5% Labour to Cons

    West Midlands
    Cons 46
    Lab 34
    LD 10
    Swing 1.5% Labour to Cons

    East Midlands
    Cons 51
    Lab 35
    LD 3
    Swing 2% Labour to Cons

    Wales
    Cons 40
    Lab 38
    LD 5
    Swing 6% Labour to Cons

    East
    Cons 51
    Lab 30
    LD 12
    Swing 3% Cons to Labour

    London
    Cons 42
    Lab 41
    LD 11
    Swing 4.5% Labour to Cons

    South East
    Cons 47
    Lab 29
    LD 13
    Swing 7.5% Cons to Labour

    South West
    Cons 49
    Lab 29
    LD 12
    Swing 4.5% Cons to Labour

    Scotland
    Cons 27
    Lab 16
    SNP 45
    LD 9
    Swing 8.5% SNP to Tory
    http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Independent_FINAL-VI-and-Political-Poll_7th-June-2017_130392.pdf

    Hmm maybe not very positive overall for the Tories. They will do much better in the North of England, but broadly neutral or going backwards​ elsewhere. Bear in mind ComRes is the polling company that rates the Conservatives highest.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Hung Parliament would be heavenly for me. Won't happen though.

    not sure your firm would feel the same way
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,713

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    David, I appreciate your honesty at this late stage of the campaign. You seem to be swimming against the tide, certainly on PB, but I hope your gut feel is right.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    TudorRose said:

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    Apologies for that. I'll be disappearing for another 20 mins now. More domestics.

    Sorry to put the cat among them but I'm calling it as I see and hear it.

    Just to confirm, the 300 was in retrospect overdoing it but I wouldn't be buying over 325.
    Get some rest. Thanks for all your hard work.
    +1
    +2
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Can someone explain to me why ICM have the Conservatives at 47% in the detailed tables but it is announced as 46%?

    Adjustment for DK/refused.
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    Apologies for that. I'll be disappearing for another 20 mins now. More domestics.

    Sorry to put the cat among them but I'm calling it as I see and hear it.

    Just to confirm, the 300 was in retrospect overdoing it but I wouldn't be buying over 325.
    It seems like you have an incredible amount on your plate. Hope you can get some rest. If May gets near to 325 she may be able to run Con minority government.

    @Casino_Royale Good point.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    isam said:

    The narrative of 'they're all just harmless bunglers' was bought by the Police.

    How can someone wave the ISIS flag about and not get arrested? What a joke

    https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/872383495112450048

    I bet the phrase 'community relations' was mentioned somewhere along the line as well.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    I think one thing we've learned tonight is that David Herdson's opinions are held in high esteem by many.
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    BigIanBigIan Posts: 198

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    Courage mon brave.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,227
    Good evening all.

    I have been at a family funeral, the second in two weeks. It was a magnificent Brideshead-style Anglo-Irish Catholic service followed by a brilliant, funny and boozy wake that my much beloved cousin would have loved!

    I see that @david_herdson has joined me in thinking that Corbyn might just do it.

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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    what time survation?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    You can have weird sampling error. As a counter to David's evening, I was out one night door-knocking in Torbay and virtually every door I went to was a) in (rare!) b) prepared to tell me how they were voting c) were all voting Tory (including switchers from other parties) d) included finding someone who wanted not only two posters - but also to make a donation to Kevin's campaign.

    We just joked it was down to my lucky hat. The days aren't all like that!
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    All this election fever is distracting us from the amazing shit going own in America. Comey's written testimony is sensational and the Senate have actually put Obamacare repeal on the fast track and it could be done and dusted by July.

    I'd get on Dem gains in the mid-terms right now.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    kle4 said:

    I think one thing we've learned tonight is that David Herdson's opinions are held in high esteem by many.

    Of course they are. David has superb judgement.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    HYUFD said:

    If , and I accept it is a big if , the Yougov poll is correct , there will be hardly any net seats changing hands . With UNS the Lib Dems would lose no seats either .

    Though it looks like there certainly will not be UNS if Comres is anything to go by, there will be a swing to Labour in the South and the Tories in the Midlands, the North, Wales and Scotland. Of course in 2015 Yougov had it tied in their final poll
    No swing to the Conservatives in Wales in a proper full poll not a sub sample of 2 men and a sheep .
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    kle4 said:

    Knowing posters real names ruins the mystery for me!

    David Herdson has confirmed to me that he did post that comment at 8.43pm

    This should be the header - I never thought he had been hacked, but I guess I wasn't paying attention, as I didn't think he was so glum on Tory prospects as to predict 300 Tory seats.

    I might have over-reacted. Still, I'm very dubious about 325+ and wouldn't be buying at that level. I'm also exhausted after seven weeks trying to oversee two constituency campaigns, do a full-time job and look after a nine-month old baby 24/7 (or about 20/7 anyway).

    Having said all that, I still think that May's blown it.
    Too late now. I always said she was a dud.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Well, shows me as wrong.

    Still, exact same difference between the parties as last time, what a waste of time and effort. And LDs up but still likely to lose seats as others up even more.

    Everyone always said YouGov knew what they are doing.
    If that's the result, the LDs would stand still, as that gives them +2 in Scotland* and -2 in England & Wales.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    kle4 said:

    I think one thing we've learned tonight is that David Herdson's opinions are held in high esteem by many.

    Of course they are. David has superb judgement.
    Oh it's well deserved and I share it.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,164
    edited June 2017
    Yougov final regional subsamples

    London
    Cons 37
    Lab 41
    LD 12

    South
    Cons 50
    Lab 30
    LD 13

    Midlands/Wales
    Cons 43
    Lab 34
    LD 10

    North
    Cons 38
    Lab 47
    LD 10

    Scotland
    Cons 28
    Lab 22
    LD 7
    SNP 41

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/d8zsb99eyd/TimesResults_FINAL CALL_GB_June2017_W.pdf
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,627
    kle4 said:

    I think one thing we've learned tonight is that David Herdson's opinions are held in high esteem by many.

    Also, how truly terrifying the prospect of a Corbyn victory actually is, and why everyone must go out and vote tomorrow.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048
    Cyclefree said:

    Good evening all.

    I have been at a family funeral, the second in two weeks. It was a magnificent Brideshead-style Anglo-Irish Catholic service followed by a brilliant, funny and boozy wake that my much beloved cousin would have loved!

    I see that @david_herdson has joined me in thinking that Corbyn might just do it.

    I know, and with two such erudite and respected posters thinking it isn't helping the rest of us settle!
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    Looking at the Wikipedia overview, it really does look as though the London terrorism produced a 4-point swing from Lab to Con. Obviously it could be a coincidence with so much else going on, but I wonder if the single "Enough is Enough" phrase cut through to a small but siginificant slice of waverers.

    David Herdson has clearly had a bad session but we all have those sometimes - take a break for a few days once the election's over, you must have earned it.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583
    kle4 said:

    I must say, I do think Keiran has over these podcasts shown himself to be a pretty decent pundit and presenter.

    Yup, he's a nice guy to boot as well.

    PB found him by accident!
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    Martin Boon unpicks YG methodology change tonight:

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/872562697333862401
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    The one thing we do know is that, whoever wins, they don't deserve to.

    Goodnight all.
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699

    If , and I accept it is a big if , the Yougov poll is correct , there will be hardly any net seats changing hands . With UNS the Lib Dems would lose no seats either .

    UNS (I know, I know) suggests Tory majority of 60-odd.

    Isn't it the case that there's a range of variables in a 7 point lead? You could be looking at anything from only very minor advances to a fairly substantial win.
    No it doesn't , strict UNS in every seat would be virtually no change . Baxter and other models are not strict UNS .
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    David Herdson still should state the basis of why he thinks the Tories will get only 300+ seats. It's not really helpful to put that out there and then leave people in the lurch.

    Apologies for that. I'll be disappearing for another 20 mins now. More domestics.

    Sorry to put the cat among them but I'm calling it as I see and hear it.

    Just to confirm, the 300 was in retrospect overdoing it but I wouldn't be buying over 325.
    And he is reporting from the North, where the Tories are supposedly doing a historical best according to the polls.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    what time survation?

    They finished the fieldwork at 9pm, so I'm guessing in the next 90 mins or so.
  • Options

    Looking at the Wikipedia overview, it really does look as though the London terrorism produced a 4-point swing from Lab to Con. Obviously it could be a coincidence with so much else going on, but I wonder if the single "Enough is Enough" phrase cut through to a small but siginificant slice of waverers.

    David Herdson has clearly had a bad session but we all have those sometimes - take a break for a few days once the election's over, you must have earned it.

    Don't share your politics but reminded once again, after my seven year absence from here, of your decency and the fairness of your commentary, Dr Palmer.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:
    Evening all – Blimey, have YouGov changed their weighting, or is this just a coincidence?
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002

    isam said:

    The narrative of 'they're all just harmless bunglers' was bought by the Police.

    How can someone wave the ISIS flag about and not get arrested? What a joke

    https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/872383495112450048

    I bet the phrase 'community relations' was mentioned somewhere along the line as well.
    Why does no one give a toss about the non muslim populations feelings? Whenever there is an attack, politicians tell US not to single out the Muslim community as a whole, bang on about Islamaphobia etc, despite there never being any attacks on Muslims by people reacting to Islamic extremism.

    What would be nice is a senior Muslim saying "I understand what you all must be thinking and I apologise for the actions taken in the name of my religion. Thank you for your amazing tolerance, we aren't all like this" etc. Why should it be on the victims to be understanding?
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    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,963
    Andrew said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Glenfiddy is smooth but boring. Laphroaig kicks you in the nuts but leaves you wanting more.
    The 18 year old Glenfiddich is a bit of a disappointment compared to the 15, which is softer and sweeter. It doesn't have a very distinctive character.

    If you're not a fan of peated whiskies, the Laphroaig may well knock you off your feet. I've grown to enjoy it over the years but I would recommend adding just a few drops of water.
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    MagoshMagosh Posts: 8
    Looks like slight herding to me. YouGov made methodology changes as outlined below:

    "As this is our final call before the election we made two minor changes to our method. The first is that rather than asking people which party they’d vote for, we showed respondents a list of the people actually standing in their constituency and asked which one they would vote for. Hopefully this will help pick up any tactical vote considerations and remove any issue of people saying they would vote UKIP or Green in seats where UKIP or the Greens are not actually standing.

    Secondly we have reallocated those respondents who say don’t know, but who also say they are very likely to vote (voters who my colleague Adam McDonnell described earlier in the campaign as “true undecided”). We assume uncertain voters who say they “don’t know” at this stage won’t actually vote, but those who say they are 8+/10 certain to vote we have reallocated back to the party they voted for in 2015."

    They clearly weren't confident about their own predictions, they're quite keen to state they think there'll be an increased majority:

    "For now, YouGov’s final call for the 2017 election is for a seven point Conservative lead, leading to an increased Conservative majority in the Commons."

    ALSO: Remember that their model is showing Labour's standing increasing over the last few days. So this doesn't sound that accurate to me, showing a steep 3 point drop. I just think they're bricking it. It's probably more accurate now, though.

    See URL: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/07/final-call-poll-tories-seven-points-and-set-increa/
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    MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Well, shows me as wrong.

    Still, exact same difference between the parties as last time, what a waste of time and effort. And LDs up but still likely to lose seats as others up even more.

    Everyone always said YouGov knew what they are doing.
    If that's the result, the LDs would stand still, as that gives them +2 in Scotland* and -2 in England & Wales.
    There would be no LD losses in England on those figures , even Brake would hold on !!!
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    kle4 said:

    I must say, I do think Keiran has over these podcasts shown himself to be a pretty decent pundit and presenter.

    Yup, he's a nice guy to boot as well.

    PB found him by accident!
    and most importantly, he's a Spurs fan.

    Diamond geezer assured.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    A post on a local site:

    "A friend of mine who lives here but is registered in Hull had applied for her mum to vote by proxy for her, but her by proxy card never arrived for her mum...is there anything she can do? (I know it's not local but every vote matters and she's super annoyed if she has just lost her vote!!!)"

    Any advice?
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    BigIanBigIan Posts: 198

    glw said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Both.
    Glenfiddich first then savour the Laphroaig.
    Very sound advice, if I may say so.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429

    what time survation?

    They finished the fieldwork at 9pm, so I'm guessing in the next 90 mins or so.
    The guy on DP said 11pm
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited June 2017
    We appear to be overlooking the most significant and widescale polling, where Jezza is winning with 90% of the vote....on Facebook ;-)
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,517

    Martin Boon unpicks YG methodology change tonight:

    https://twitter.com/martinboon/status/872562697333862401

    So they faff about for the fortnight prior to the election then change their methodology for the final poll?

    I give up. the cynic in me would suggest it's awfully convenient that their methodology showed a narrower lead around the time the campaign in chaos narrative picked up...
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    steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    IanB2 said:

    The one thing we do know is that, whoever wins, they don't deserve to.

    Goodnight all.

    The winners may not deserve to win, but the country will deserve the winners.

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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    Martin Boon: Looking logically at polling companies left, I think there is one, perhaps two extensions to the current ranges.

    Referring to Lab & Con vote shares.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,583

    kle4 said:

    I must say, I do think Keiran has over these podcasts shown himself to be a pretty decent pundit and presenter.

    Yup, he's a nice guy to boot as well.

    PB found him by accident!
    and most importantly, he's a Spurs fan.

    Diamond geezer assured.
    In the podcast I was going to describe Mrs May and the Tory campaign as a bit Spursy, but decided against it.
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    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited June 2017
    I just bought turnout on spreadex @ 62.75%

    Asked for £200/pt, got offered £50/pt.

    I'll take that. They've nudged it up a bit since.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,132
    Now I know that Liam fox doesn't have many fans on among PBers but he's certainly done some campaigning in the marginals:

    https://twitter.com/LiamFox

    Is he that active in his government job ?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,429
    edited June 2017

    A post on a local site:

    "A friend of mine who lives here but is registered in Hull had applied for her mum to vote by proxy for her, but her by proxy card never arrived for her mum...is there anything she can do? (I know it's not local but every vote matters and she's super annoyed if she has just lost her vote!!!)"

    Any advice?

    You don't need the card to be able to vote. If the person is sure the proxy application was made in time, just (ask the mum to) go to the polling station with some ID.
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    kyf_100 said:

    Andrew said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Glenfiddy is smooth but boring. Laphroaig kicks you in the nuts but leaves you wanting more.
    The 18 year old Glenfiddich is a bit of a disappointment compared to the 15, which is softer and sweeter. It doesn't have a very distinctive character.

    If you're not a fan of peated whiskies, the Laphroaig may well knock you off your feet. I've grown to enjoy it over the years but I would recommend adding just a few drops of water.
    Lagavulin man myself, if you want the Medicinal.
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    For the first time in years of doing Yougov surveys they asked me how I'd vote... so that explains the sudden change...

    On the Google Docs spreadsheet posted earlier, is it read only? I can't see a space for current votes in it either way for tracking purposes.
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621

    A post on a local site:

    "A friend of mine who lives here but is registered in Hull had applied for her mum to vote by proxy for her, but her by proxy card never arrived for her mum...is there anything she can do? (I know it's not local but every vote matters and she's super annoyed if she has just lost her vote!!!)"

    Any advice?

    I think you can apply for an emergency proxy up until 5pm on polling day. Contact returning officer's office first thing.
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    They are goingnto.lose C&W...
    Granted LDs will win Twickenham..
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    Looking at the Wikipedia overview, it really does look as though the London terrorism produced a 4-point swing from Lab to Con. Obviously it could be a coincidence with so much else going on, but I wonder if the single "Enough is Enough" phrase cut through to a small but siginificant slice of waverers.

    David Herdson has clearly had a bad session but we all have those sometimes - take a break for a few days once the election's over, you must have earned it.

    Well said!
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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Well, shows me as wrong.

    Still, exact same difference between the parties as last time, what a waste of time and effort. And LDs up but still likely to lose seats as others up even more.

    Everyone always said YouGov knew what they are doing.
    If that's the result, the LDs would stand still, as that gives them +2 in Scotland* and -2 in England & Wales.
    There would be no LD losses in England on those figures , even Brake would hold on !!!
    No he wont
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,582

    isam said:

    The narrative of 'they're all just harmless bunglers' was bought by the Police.

    How can someone wave the ISIS flag about and not get arrested? What a joke

    https://twitter.com/thejeremyvine/status/872383495112450048

    I bet the phrase 'community relations' was mentioned somewhere along the line as well.
    Its more that if they arrest everyone who waves ISIS flags etc then they would be arresting people by the thousand.

    Quite simply it is very very hard to tell which ones out of those thousands will suddenly spontaneously combust......
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    kle4 said:

    I am still going to have to vote Tory just in case...The free baby better be tasty, going with the chargrilled option.

    Boiled for me please, it's my first time.
    en croute with sautéed root vegetables and a nice demiglaze
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ShippersUnbound: Detecting growing Tory confidence. Two days ago most were predicting 50-80 majority. Now 80-100.
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    So the yougov poll was herding via changing how they fiddle the numbers. Not overly impressed.
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    Rest up David - seriously well done with your efforts whatever the result!
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    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Scott_P said:

    @ShippersUnbound: Detecting growing Tory confidence. Two days ago most were predicting 50-80 majority. Now 80-100.

    Interesting.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    Magosh said:

    Looks like slight herding to me. YouGov made methodology changes as outlined below:

    "As this is our final call before the election we made two minor changes to our method. The first is that rather than asking people which party they’d vote for, we showed respondents a list of the people actually standing in their constituency and asked which one they would vote for. Hopefully this will help pick up any tactical vote considerations and remove any issue of people saying they would vote UKIP or Green in seats where UKIP or the Greens are not actually standing.

    Secondly we have reallocated those respondents who say don’t know, but who also say they are very likely to vote (voters who my colleague Adam McDonnell described earlier in the campaign as “true undecided”). We assume uncertain voters who say they “don’t know” at this stage won’t actually vote, but those who say they are 8+/10 certain to vote we have reallocated back to the party they voted for in 2015."

    They clearly weren't confident about their own predictions, they're quite keen to state they think there'll be an increased majority:

    "For now, YouGov’s final call for the 2017 election is for a seven point Conservative lead, leading to an increased Conservative majority in the Commons."

    ALSO: Remember that their model is showing Labour's standing increasing over the last few days. So this doesn't sound that accurate to me, showing a steep 3 point drop. I just think they're bricking it. It's probably more accurate now, though.

    See URL: https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/06/07/final-call-poll-tories-seven-points-and-set-increa/

    That's helpful, thanks - what they've done is similar to part of ICM's tweaks - ICM also (in my view rather contrroversially) override don't knows, though ICM go further and override people who won't say how they voted last time either (by *guessing* that they'll behave like *other* people who've said they didn't know in past elections).

    Do we have a figure for raw "party preferred before turnout adjustment" from any of these?
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    tlg86 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Final Comres swings by region since 2015

    London
    Cons 42
    Lab 41
    LD 11
    Swing 4.5% Labour to Cons

    Scotland
    Cons 27
    Lab 16
    SNP 45
    LD 9
    Swing 8.5% SNP to Tory
    http://www.comresglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/Independent_FINAL-VI-and-Political-Poll_7th-June-2017_130392.pdf

    Obviously difficult to draw too many conclusions about sub samples, but they don't look right to me.
    If the LDs are on 9% in Scotland, that would be almost twice their list vote level from last year.

    Argyll & Bute, 6-1. You heard it from me about twenty times.
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    They were the future / 1950's once....

    https://twitter.com/oflynnmep/status/872564749736841216
This discussion has been closed.