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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    Jesus, this is pathetic, I'm seriously struggling to stay awake. I will be struggling tomorrow.
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    chrisbchrisb Posts: 101
    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    On Wakefield, I don't think that's an accurate reflection of DH's post. What he said was:

    Just come back from last-minute leafleting. Change of mind on earlier. I think Corbyn is just going to do this. The polls are right. Con 300.

    Still think we'll take Wakefield due to Creagh's idiocy/principled stand (delete as preferred) over triggering A50.

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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    I do know Sophie's sister, she was a journo at The Independent for 5 years. Probably not connected to the front page though.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited June 2017
    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Alistair said:

    The Conservative Party, candidate.

    Oxford comma?

    Get thee hence...
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,115

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    Piling up where though?
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621
    Sophie Walker, of the Women's Equality Party.

    https://goo.gl/images/BN1Ak0
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    kyf_100 said:

    Andrew said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Glenfiddy is smooth but boring. Laphroaig kicks you in the nuts but leaves you wanting more.
    The 18 year old Glenfiddich is a bit of a disappointment compared to the 15, which is softer and sweeter. It doesn't have a very distinctive character.

    If you're not a fan of peated whiskies, the Laphroaig may well knock you off your feet. I've grown to enjoy it over the years but I would recommend adding just a few drops of water.
    I am a lover of the Laphroaig and have been for many, many years. But it is not a Whisky suitable for drinking on all occasions. Late in the evening, after a good meal, it is hard to beat or late on a cold winter's afternoon after a day in the open air. It is not, in my view, an all day whisky; I would not, for example, fill my flask with it when going out for a morning on the local shoot (the Grouse is good enough for those sort of events).

    I don't hold with putting water in it either. A separate glass of still mineral water and take them in alternate sips seems the best way to of drinking a fine whisky to me.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,249
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good evening all.

    I have been at a family funeral, the second in two weeks. It was a magnificent Brideshead-style Anglo-Irish Catholic service followed by a brilliant, funny and boozy wake that my much beloved cousin would have loved!

    I see that @david_herdson has joined me in thinking that Corbyn might just do it.

    I don't claim anything approaching your combined predictive value, but I feel similarly.

    OTOH the Tories are now sending leaflets out highlighting Labour's garden/council tax increases and what it will cost the average NW6 homeowner - about £12,000 p.a.
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Bolton vox pops, including older golfers all trending Corbyn.

    DH may well be on the zeitgeist.

    The three golfers are still voting Tory.
    It's a bit like that ridiculously interpreted Scottish poll earlier today which found 31% of voters more likely to support independence if the Conservatives won - whilst simultaneously finding the rock solid anti-independence regardless vote at 44%. Which basically means that most of the 31% were, er, Independence supporters!
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    Piling up where though?
    Home counties etc.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,528

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    That would not seem to fit the narrative of this election - I.e, Ukippy areas swinging more to the Tories and Labour advancing in London/the South
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 28,040
    edited June 2017
    Interesting that unlike 2015 no-one on here ca be accused of herding. Mr Herdson, cyclefree doubtful of majority, Bigjohnowls at 100+ (A feeling I share). What a weird election! I expect some shocking gains and losses, with wild swings.
    Swinging like Cap d'Agde on a sunny day!
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    The Daily Mail sincerely believes Corbyn will be taxing your garden, poor loves.

    He would.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Sophie Walker, of the Women's Equality Party.

    https://goo.gl/images/BN1Ak0

    Got my vote!, if that is permitted...
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,086
    edited June 2017
    Scott_P said:

    hts://twitter.com/daily_record/status/872569460422569984

    I'm sorry, I don't get past the first few lines of these long articles, I should choose Theresa, Boris and Ruth?
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    edited June 2017
    chrisb said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    On Wakefield, I don't think that's an accurate reflection of DH's post. What he said was:

    Just come back from last-minute leafleting. Change of mind on earlier. I think Corbyn is just going to do this. The polls are right. Con 300.

    Still think we'll take Wakefield due to Creagh's idiocy/principled stand (delete as preferred) over triggering A50.

    Winning Wakefield and losing seats (net) would take some doing.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    Piling up where though?
    Home counties etc.
    Won't they lose vote share in the home counties?
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    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    Just a further anecdote, from the doorstep, but I have not seen new Labour voters so fired up by anyone since TB. They will come out to vote in numbers. Not enough to win back Preseli, but enough to see of challenges in many marginals, and even gaining one or two.
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    BromBrom Posts: 3,760

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    Maybe if it's a 7 point lead, but if it's a double digit like ICM then no way will the Tories only have 325 with that vote share. We can be pretty certain IMO Labour's vote is inefficient and skewed towards cities and Uni towns as a young voter surge is playing a key part in their better poll ratings.

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    The Daily Mail sincerely believes Corbyn will be taxing your garden, poor loves.

    He would.
    Each gnome and azelia will feel the force of the evil marxist hordes, and their "accounting books".
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    OK, so YouGov pre-turnout and special tweaks is a lead of 3, ICM pre-turnout and special tweaks is a lead of 4. These turn into 7 and 12 respectively after the tweaks. I remain a bit sceptical about them, but a key point is that Tory voters look like getting out anyway, Labour voters are less certain, so a lot may depend on thr gound game tomorrow.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Sophie Walker, of the Women's Equality Party.

    https://goo.gl/images/BN1Ak0

    Got my vote!, if that is permitted...
    Oh yes ! For me, it's a swing from Leanne to Sophie.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,931
    valleyboy said:

    Just a further anecdote, from the doorstep, but I have not seen new Labour voters so fired up by anyone since TB. They will come out to vote in numbers. Not enough to win back Preseli, but enough to see of challenges in many marginals, and even gaining one or two.

    70% turnout?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Scott_P said:
    I chose not to choose hope: I chose something else.
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    Piling up where though?
    Home counties etc.
    I am fairly confident that they are not.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,780
    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,448
    edited June 2017
    Cheers for the kind words this evening and yes, I am going off for some rest after typing this post - though I will be up ready for a 5am delivery start tomorrow and will probably have a baby feed between now and then too.

    And yes, I am just one person reporting from one part of one constituency and it's certainly possible to over-extrapolate a small sample. However, in theory, everyone I was contacting today should be Con supporters (which is why we're contacting them) and while there were clearly some positive remarks, I felt that there were too many silences or outright negative comments. I didn't feel like the tide was moving the right way.

    That said, I also know that we should do well out of the ex-UKIP vote and in Wakefield that has particular potency given Creagh's A50 vote and the Leave/Remain split. I'd also say that the true baseline is the 2010 election and not the 2015 one, as last time we only picked a candidate in March and gave Labour two years headstart. This time, as in 2010, we fought on roughly level terms.

    However, it's clear that policing, pensions, social care and other 'spend other people's money' issues have cut through and are switching votes. Hence my prediction.

    However, just as one should never tweet when drunk or exhausted (unless SeanT, perhaps), so one probably shouldn't post in such a condition and almost certainly shouldn't bet. (For clarification, I'm not drunk, by the way - I've barely had time for a drink since the campaign began, bar a friend's mini stag do a couple of weekends ago).

    But trying to view it with a clear head, I still don't like it. We're ignoring the polls because - ? Because until not long ago they didn't accord with experience. But tonight, for me, they did. The polls were right at the local elections a month ago. A Con lead of 4-5 would produce a knife-edge Con majority, if that. And I'm not convinced the lead will be that big.

    And with that, I'm signing off until tomorrow. All the best, and if I can't wish you all good luck politically, at least I hope I can wish a profitable day. If it's as bad a result as it might be, you'll need the money.
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    hts://twitter.com/daily_record/status/872569460422569984

    I'm sorry, I don't get past the first few lines of these long articles, I should choose Theresa, Boris and Ruth?
    Jesus christ, are there are other fucking movies from Scotland. It's like The Western Mail quoting Twin Town for everything.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,998
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Good evening all.

    I have been at a family funeral, the second in two weeks. It was a magnificent Brideshead-style Anglo-Irish Catholic service followed by a brilliant, funny and boozy wake that my much beloved cousin would have loved!

    I see that @david_herdson has joined me in thinking that Corbyn might just do it.

    I don't claim anything approaching your combined predictive value, but I feel similarly.

    OTOH the Tories are now sending leaflets out highlighting Labour's garden/council tax increases and what it will cost the average NW6 homeowner - about £12,000 p.a.
    I do think a Tory win probable - but also that there is more than enough uncertainty to justify covering the possibility of a hung Parliament.
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    Survation: Our tables for our final poll are delayed due to a left hemisphere "stooshie" in the stats room. But worry not ye final poll watchers..
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    DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 440

    "If it's promoting the national party and national policies, then regardless of whether it mentions the constituency name or not then it's national spend," an Electoral Commission spokesperson told BuzzFeed News, adding that the situation is different if it talks "about a candidate's views and a candidate's policies".

    The end result is that Conservative paid-for Facebook ads that only appear to voters in a single targeted constituency and look remarkably like localised adverts can be legally counted as national spending.

    In one example from Westminster North, obtained by BuzzFeed News, the advert repeatedly mentions "your constituency", features the words "Westminster North" in the graphic, and emphasises that local voters in the constituency could determine who gets into Downing Street.

    I got a leaflet this morning warning me that a vote for UKIP would mean Jeremy Corbyn would be Prime Minister, allegedly targeted for the constituency where UKIP aren't even fielding a candidate.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,208

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    No, as she will add about half the 2015 UKIP vote onto Dave's share
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    kyf_100 said:

    Andrew said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Glenfiddy is smooth but boring. Laphroaig kicks you in the nuts but leaves you wanting more.
    The 18 year old Glenfiddich is a bit of a disappointment compared to the 15, which is softer and sweeter. It doesn't have a very distinctive character.

    If you're not a fan of peated whiskies, the Laphroaig may well knock you off your feet. I've grown to enjoy it over the years but I would recommend adding just a few drops of water.
    I am a lover of the Laphroaig and have been for many, many years. But it is not a Whisky suitable for drinking on all occasions. Late in the evening, after a good meal, it is hard to beat or late on a cold winter's afternoon after a day in the open air. It is not, in my view, an all day whisky; I would not, for example, fill my flask with it when going out for a morning on the local shoot (the Grouse is good enough for those sort of events).

    I don't hold with putting water in it either. A separate glass of still mineral water and take them in alternate sips seems the best way to of drinking a fine whisky to me.
    I picked up a £25 bottle of Talisker Skye tonight with £7 knocked off it for tomorrow night. I promptly gave £2 of it back when I walked out of the store to help a driver short on petrol to get back home. Laphroaig is lovely, but my favourite is Caol Isla, the bottle I had was simply divine.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    edited June 2017

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    That would not seem to fit the narrative of this election - I.e, Ukippy areas swinging more to the Tories and Labour advancing in London/the South
    Half of UKIP's vote in 2015 was in the South inc. London. There are very few seats where it makes a difference.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,208

    OK, so YouGov pre-turnout and special tweaks is a lead of 3, ICM pre-turnout and special tweaks is a lead of 4. These turn into 7 and 12 respectively after the tweaks. I remain a bit sceptical about them, but a key point is that Tory voters look like getting out anyway, Labour voters are less certain, so a lot may depend on thr gound game tomorrow.

    Yougov's final 2015 poll had it tied, ICM had Labour ahead by 1, the Tories won by 7
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2017
    Good evening again. Been out for a while.

    Just read the last two hours' worth of posts in about 10 minutes. The David Herdson conundrum was probably the highlight of it all.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    edited June 2017
    To reply to Mike L re the bombing impact: the figures shown by Wikipedia give the Tories

    41, 40, [attack], 45, 43,42,43,44,42,46

    and Labour

    40,39, [attack],34, 36, 38, 38,34, 35, 34

    Could be coincidence, but it looks like a clearish pattern.
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    Survation is making staying up to find out its results a question of survival.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited June 2017

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    No, as she will add about half the 2015 UKIP vote onto Dave's share
    Labour could also be adding from UKIP and the Greens.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    surbiton said:

    Sophie Walker, of the Women's Equality Party.

    https://goo.gl/images/BN1Ak0

    Got my vote!, if that is permitted...
    Oh yes ! For me, it's a swing from Leanne to Sophie.
    Are we the oldest swingers in town?
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    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    One thing I would be instinctively wary of is the number of seats that are apparently in play despite requiring pretty unprecented swings (outside of 1997). There must be a danger in some of the simultaneous buoyant Conservative/gloomy Labour reports that canvassers are underestimating just how big some of these majorities are. When you're defending 20%+majorities it requires a hell of a lot of bad news for that bad news to actually equate to a loss of a seat. But even a 5-6% swing is going to feel pretty bad on the doorsteps, even if not realistically threatening.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,086
    The political affiliation of WEP is listed on wikipedia as 'nonpartisan'. Colour me skeptical.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,780




    And with that, I'm signing off until tomorrow. All the best, and if I can't wish you all good luck politically, at least I hope I can wish a profitable day. If it's as bad a result as it might be, you'll need the money.

    My house comes off the market immediately, and I hunker down for the next 5 years, if the worst happens.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    That would not seem to fit the narrative of this election - I.e, Ukippy areas swinging more to the Tories and Labour advancing in London/the South
    Half of UKIP's vote in 2015 was in the South inc. London.
    But how many of them were previously Labour and / or LibDem voters ?

    The Conservatives are not going to pick up that many former UKIP voters in southern England.
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    chrisbchrisb Posts: 101

    chrisb said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    On Wakefield, I don't think that's an accurate reflection of DH's post. What he said was:

    Just come back from last-minute leafleting. Change of mind on earlier. I think Corbyn is just going to do this. The polls are right. Con 300.

    Still think we'll take Wakefield due to Creagh's idiocy/principled stand (delete as preferred) over triggering A50.

    Winning Wakefield and losing seats (net) would take some doing.
    Perhaps, but there are particular circumstances in that seat which means the swing there is unlikely to mirror the country as a whole.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Still, everyone agrees on one thing: the LibDems.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
    Any of them mean au revoir surely
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    stooshie - scots for a row, like a "stramash", methinks.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    AndyJS said:

    Good evening again. Been out for a while.

    Just read the last two hours' worth of posts in about 10 minutes. The David Herdson conundrum was probably the highlight of it all.

    You read a lot faster than me.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,931
    AndyJS said:

    Good evening again. Been out for a while.

    Just read the last two hours' worth of posts in about 10 minutes. The David Herdson conundrum was probably the highlight of it all.

    We've had fun!

    Has been a nice appetizer for tomorrow night's main course...
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    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
    Dave -8, closely followed by Dave -1.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,448
    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    Actually, I think we will win Wakefield but it will be against trend and it will be down to local factors, both demographic and political.
  • Options
    JennyFreemanJennyFreeman Posts: 488

    To reply to Mike L re the bombing impact: the figures shown by Wikipedia give the Tories

    41, 40, [attack], 45, 43,42,43,44,42,46

    and Labour

    40,39, [attack],34, 36, 38, 38,34, 35, 34

    Could be coincidence, but it looks like a clearish pattern.

    It's otherwise known as half-term
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,902
    midwinter said:

    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
    Any of them mean au revoir surely
    Nope, they won't depose someone who has just been elected with a majority. 3/4 seats short however...
  • Options
    BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    There are now 3 Tory majority spreads (50-74, 75-99 and 100-124) with better odds than no majority. Only 3 or 4 days ago no majority was shorter odds than any of the majority spreads. Punters are obviously increasingly confident but are they just following the trend blindly?

    I feel a lot of JC supporters will be fired up, but also feel a lot of trad Labour supporters just won't be able to hold their nose enough to vote for him, Theresa just isn't enough of a Tory toff or City spiv that lukewarmLabour supporters will drag themselves to the polling booth to try and stop her.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,780



    However, it's clear that policing, pensions, social care and other 'spend other people's money' issues have cut through and are switching votes. Hence my prediction.

    There's an argument that exhaustion with austerity drove both Brexit over the line, and possibly might do so tomorrow (mathematically) for Corbyn too.

    In which case, the fundamentals are really economic and we really are addicted to state spending, and believe we can have our cake and eat it.

    It might have been better for Osborne to cut deeper, faster, in the 2010-2015 parliament, and get it largely over with in 5 years, rather than chipping away at it for 10 years+.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 59,021
    What's this about YouGov being the new platinum standard? :smiley:
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    edited June 2017

    Cheers for the kind words this evening and yes, I am going off for some rest after typing this post - though I will be up ready for a 5am delivery start tomorrow and will probably have a baby feed between now and then too.

    (snip)

    Thanks, David - sympathies for a rough day, and that's very clear. I remember feeling just like that when going round the day before the election in 2015, and (notoriously) I didn't share the impression here (as a candidate I didn't feel I could), so hats off for the honesty, and we all wish you well regardless.

    I think that Tory WWC votes sometims have a mirage-like element - they seem to be coming over for the first time ever, but on the day habit reasserts itself.
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    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    chrisb said:

    chrisb said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    On Wakefield, I don't think that's an accurate reflection of DH's post. What he said was:

    Just come back from last-minute leafleting. Change of mind on earlier. I think Corbyn is just going to do this. The polls are right. Con 300.

    Still think we'll take Wakefield due to Creagh's idiocy/principled stand (delete as preferred) over triggering A50.

    Winning Wakefield and losing seats (net) would take some doing.
    Perhaps, but there are particular circumstances in that seat which means the swing there is unlikely to mirror the country as a whole.
    Its likely to mirror the swing of much of the midlands and northern England.
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    valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 605
    GIN1138 said:

    valleyboy said:

    Just a further anecdote, from the doorstep, but I have not seen new Labour voters so fired up by anyone since TB. They will come out to vote in numbers. Not enough to win back Preseli, but enough to see of challenges in many marginals, and even gaining one or two.

    70% turnout?
    Easily in my patch
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    I'm reading mainly people saying they are going to vote Labour on my facebook feed, but seeing as I know where they all live (they mainly voted Labour last time and all live in safe Labour seats) I'm not sure whether that is a groundswell or not and whether they are the tip of an iceberg.
    That is the issue with this election, voters are moving about for once.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,086

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    That would not seem to fit the narrative of this election - I.e, Ukippy areas swinging more to the Tories and Labour advancing in London/the South
    Half of UKIP's vote in 2015 was in the South inc. London.
    But how many of them were previously Labour and / or LibDem voters ?

    The Conservatives are not going to pick up that many former UKIP voters in southern England.
    To take an example, South West Wiltshire in 2010 was

    Con 51.7
    LD 30.5
    Lab 11.5
    UKIP 5.5
    IND 0.9

    In 2015 it was

    Con 52.7 (+1.0)
    UKIP 17.5 (+12.0)
    Lab 13.5 (+2.0)
    LD 10.6 (-19.9)
    Green 5.8 (+5.8)

    The LDs are not trying as hard as usual (probably over in Bath), UKIP are not standing this time, Labour are well organised, so I'm betting a higher proportion of UKIP in this seat go Labour than in most other areas, pushing them into second.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,669
    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
    I'm editing PB tomorrow from 9.58pm through to 6am., if the majority is sub Dave, I think you won't get any threads from as I'll be literally ROFLing
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    hunchman said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Andrew said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Glenfiddy is smooth but boring. Laphroaig kicks you in the nuts but leaves you wanting more.
    The 18 year old Glenfiddich is a bit of a disappointment compared to the 15, which is softer and sweeter. It doesn't have a very distinctive character.

    If you're not a fan of peated whiskies, the Laphroaig may well knock you off your feet. I've grown to enjoy it over the years but I would recommend adding just a few drops of water.
    I am a lover of the Laphroaig and have been for many, many years. But it is not a Whisky suitable for drinking on all occasions. Late in the evening, after a good meal, it is hard to beat or late on a cold winter's afternoon after a day in the open air. It is not, in my view, an all day whisky; I would not, for example, fill my flask with it when going out for a morning on the local shoot (the Grouse is good enough for those sort of events).

    I don't hold with putting water in it either. A separate glass of still mineral water and take them in alternate sips seems the best way to of drinking a fine whisky to me.
    I picked up a £25 bottle of Talisker Skye tonight with £7 knocked off it for tomorrow night. I promptly gave £2 of it back when I walked out of the store to help a driver short on petrol to get back home. Laphroaig is lovely, but my favourite is Caol Isla, the bottle I had was simply divine.
    Caol Isla is the best for me too, though all Islay whisky is divine.

    I am a little short of brandy for tommorow, only a little Metaxa left. Does it go with popcorn?



  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,998
    edited June 2017
    hunchman said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Andrew said:

    Alistair said:

    I'm not a whisky drinker but I have two miniatures in the pantry: a 10 year old Laphroaig and a 18 year old Glenfiddich. Which one for the exit poll tomorrow?

    Glenfiddy is smooth but boring. Laphroaig kicks you in the nuts but leaves you wanting more.
    The 18 year old Glenfiddich is a bit of a disappointment compared to the 15, which is softer and sweeter. It doesn't have a very distinctive character.

    If you're not a fan of peated whiskies, the Laphroaig may well knock you off your feet. I've grown to enjoy it over the years but I would recommend adding just a few drops of water.
    I am a lover of the Laphroaig and have been for many, many years. But it is not a Whisky suitable for drinking on all occasions. Late in the evening, after a good meal, it is hard to beat or late on a cold winter's afternoon after a day in the open air. It is not, in my view, an all day whisky; I would not, for example, fill my flask with it when going out for a morning on the local shoot (the Grouse is good enough for those sort of events).

    I don't hold with putting water in it either. A separate glass of still mineral water and take them in alternate sips seems the best way to of drinking a fine whisky to me.
    I picked up a £25 bottle of Talisker Skye tonight with £7 knocked off it for tomorrow night. I promptly gave £2 of it back when I walked out of the store to help a driver short on petrol to get back home. Laphroaig is lovely, but my favourite is Caol Isla, the bottle I had was simply divine.
    Ted Heath's favoured tipple, reportedly (Talisker).
    Apologies if I just ruined it...
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    ChaosOdinChaosOdin Posts: 67
    When I Baxter YouGov I get a con majority of 48, so all in the clear for the Tories basically?
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    Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,639



    However, the Conservatives have now spotted a previously underused loophole that means even adverts that mention a specific constituency – but not the local candidate or local policies – can be paid out of the national campaign budget, which can be up to £19 million.

    "If it's promoting the national party and national policies, then regardless of whether it mentions the constituency name or not then it's national spend," an Electoral Commission spokesperson told BuzzFeed News, adding that the situation is different if it talks "about a candidate's views and a candidate's policies".

    The end result is that Conservative paid-for Facebook ads that only appear to voters in a single targeted constituency and look remarkably like localised adverts can be legally counted as national spending.

    Interesting. They are applying it also to printed direct mailshots. So I received one purportedly from Theresa May the other day - mentioning this named constituency three times and ending with the statement "So vote for me."

    I do wonder though if the Electoral Commission is overstepping itself. Surely the Conservatives must be sailing very close to the wind. So has the EC's interpretation of electoral law been challenged in court? Ultimately it is the judges not the EC that decides, and the law can't be changed retrospectively. And, if the Supreme Court eventually found against the Conservatives, would we not face a rerun of the general election in every marginal constituency up and down the country?
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    BenedictWhiteBenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    chrisb said:

    chrisb said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    On Wakefield, I don't think that's an accurate reflection of DH's post. What he said was:

    Just come back from last-minute leafleting. Change of mind on earlier. I think Corbyn is just going to do this. The polls are right. Con 300.

    Still think we'll take Wakefield due to Creagh's idiocy/principled stand (delete as preferred) over triggering A50.

    Winning Wakefield and losing seats (net) would take some doing.
    Perhaps, but there are particular circumstances in that seat which means the swing there is unlikely to mirror the country as a whole.
    Yes I know Wakefield is a bit special however there are loads of seats with UKIP voters who will move Conservative. So I think it unlikely that many seats will be lost. I do see at least as many gains as losses so I will stick with a 70 to 100 majority.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,086
    Is that like a rumpus?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,957
    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
    All of the above.

    I'd have to take back about 500 posts about her superior electoral appeal...
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,033
    x

    To reply to Mike L re the bombing impact: the figures shown by Wikipedia give the Tories

    41, 40, [attack], 45, 43,42,43,44,42,46

    and Labour

    40,39, [attack],34, 36, 38, 38,34, 35, 34

    Could be coincidence, but it looks like a clearish pattern.

    Could be a case of the Jo Cox's - politically engaged poll panels giving the 'right' answer
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,012

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    Actually, I think we will win Wakefield but it will be against trend and it will be down to local factors, both demographic and political.
    If Wakefield goes, it's hard to see anything other than a Tory lead, even if only a small one.

    The polling is still pretty solid for the Tories at 43/44%.
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    RobinWiggsRobinWiggs Posts: 621



    Caol Isla is the best for me too, though all Islay whisky is divine.

    Bunnahabhain for me. Delicious,
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    Piling up where though?
    Home counties etc.
    IMO if anything the Tory vote will become more efficiently distributed in the Home Counties compared to last time. Brexit will cost them votes in safe seats in many areas in the SE.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Chameleon said:

    midwinter said:

    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
    Any of them mean au revoir surely
    Nope, they won't depose someone who has just been elected with a majority. 3/4 seats short however...
    Hmmm. Hopefully she'd resign. If she can't beat Corbyn by more than that with Ukip and the Lib Dems dead men walking it's nothing but a failure and certainly no mandate.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,145
    kle4 said:

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    That would not seem to fit the narrative of this election - I.e, Ukippy areas swinging more to the Tories and Labour advancing in London/the South
    Half of UKIP's vote in 2015 was in the South inc. London.
    But how many of them were previously Labour and / or LibDem voters ?

    The Conservatives are not going to pick up that many former UKIP voters in southern England.
    To take an example, South West Wiltshire in 2010 was

    Con 51.7
    LD 30.5
    Lab 11.5
    UKIP 5.5
    IND 0.9

    In 2015 it was

    Con 52.7 (+1.0)
    UKIP 17.5 (+12.0)
    Lab 13.5 (+2.0)
    LD 10.6 (-19.9)
    Green 5.8 (+5.8)

    The LDs are not trying as hard as usual (probably over in Bath), UKIP are not standing this time, Labour are well organised, so I'm betting a higher proportion of UKIP in this seat go Labour than in most other areas, pushing them into second.
    Exactly.
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    noisywinternoisywinter Posts: 249
    It should be noted, if anyone wants to follow Mr Hersons gut, NOM is 9-9.2 on betfair. Massive liquidity as you would expect
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Still, everyone agrees on one thing: the LibDems.

    apart from Mark Senior of course.....
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,086
    Scott_P said:
    Well, 44 seats would still be a heck of a result in terms of dominating the area, but 12 losses would do nicely.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,528
    ChaosOdin said:

    When I Baxter YouGov I get a con majority of 48, so all in the clear for the Tories basically?

    Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the swing in different seats. I suspect there will be a fairly good night in Scotland which will help matters for the Tories, but they will underwhelm in London. Time will tell.
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    GIN1138 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Good evening again. Been out for a while.

    Just read the last two hours' worth of posts in about 10 minutes. The David Herdson conundrum was probably the highlight of it all.

    We've had fun!

    Has been a nice appetizer for tomorrow night's main course...
    Booked Friday off and got the beer and popcorn in

    I am ready

    I am also calm unlike some on here :-)
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    isamisam Posts: 41,033

    The thing is both the pollsters and Herdson could be right, Con increase their lead but piling it up in the wrong places.

    That would not seem to fit the narrative of this election - I.e, Ukippy areas swinging more to the Tories and Labour advancing in London/the South
    Half of UKIP's vote in 2015 was in the South inc. London.
    But how many of them were previously Labour and / or LibDem voters ?

    The Conservatives are not going to pick up that many former UKIP voters in southern England.
    Southerners that went Lab to Ukip ain't buying a return ticket to Communism
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,998
    Interesting Matthew Parris bit about May on Newsnight.
    Eric Pickles seriously off message on how bad May is at negotiation.
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    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,871
    kle4 said:

    Is that like a rumpus?
    More like a stramash.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,321

    To reply to Mike L re the bombing impact: the figures shown by Wikipedia give the Tories

    41, 40, [attack], 45, 43,42,43,44,42,46

    and Labour

    40,39, [attack],34, 36, 38, 38,34, 35, 34

    Could be coincidence, but it looks like a clearish pattern.

    But the 41, 40 and 40, 39 are just one pollster.

    If you take the averages of all pollsters pre and post attack they are very similar.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    Mortimer said:

    Alistair said:

    Sean_F said:

    Ave_it said:

    So:

    David Herdson (who I regard as a top level poster on here) is concerned we (CON) won't win Wakefield.

    He is correct in this analysis. We won't win Wakefield. But that was always the case. We were never going to win a seat that LAB has held since 1931. But that doesn't justify a projection that we will get 325 max.

    JackW and JohnO are top level analysts here. They have both projected a CON maj 100. But that won't happen because again it is dependent on CON winning lots of seats which we haven't won since 1931. That won't happen.

    BUT we are 10% clear. We may struggle in London and South although I am feeling more comfortable now. We will do ok in Midlands and North eg will win Wolverhampton SW, Barrow, Chester maybe Copeland. We will also win at least 10 seats in Scotland.

    Ave it has always projected a 10% lead and around a 40 maj - it might be slightly better than that.

    But, but - what about Bootle?
    I stick to my prediction of a 1979-type result, if you add SNP to Labour.
    Part of me wonders if the voters might deliver some poetic justice, and return May with an almost identical majority to Dave in GE2015.
    Which would be funnier, a majority of

    Exactly Dave
    Dave+1
    Dave -1
    All of the above.

    I'd have to take back about 500 posts about her superior electoral appeal...
    Chortle.....and the bit about Francis Maude from earlier please?
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Ultimately it is the judges not the EC that decides, and the law can't be changed retrospectively. And, if the Supreme Court eventually found against the Conservatives, would we not face a rerun of the general election in every marginal constituency up and down the country?

    Very unlikely that a party or any individuals would get into trouble for following Electoral Commission guidelines, even if the court decides the guidelines were wrong.
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    stooshie - scots for a row, like a "stramash", methinks.

    There's a scale

    stooshie < rammy/stairheid rammy < stramash

    row < serious row/row with the neighbours < bout of fisticuffs may be involved.

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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,998



    Caol Isla is the best for me too, though all Islay whisky is divine.

    Bunnahabhain for me. Delicious,
    It's one of the better ones, agreed.
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    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441
    Scott_P said:

    @BethRigby: So..... senior Tory tells me 70++ win will be a 'big' win & rumour has it that the bigger the win the bigger the re… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/872559837468659712

    I think this is the first figure we've heard from "senior Tories" in this campaign. Do we think this might be expectations management? If so, the Tories presumably think that a 70+ majority is nailed on. That would chime with those Labour constituencies that are requesting help to defend seats which seem to suggest that they are in danger of losing 50-70 seats.
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    isamisam Posts: 41,033
    The betting has gone massively towards the Tories today

    Con maj 1.15 from 1.25
    Nom 9.6 from 6.6
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