I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
Are you making a pitch for PB - The Movie .... using old stars of the silver screen reanimated in CGI - Starring :
Yul Bryner as Mike Smithson Bet Davis as Peter the Punter Charles Hawtrey as Robert Smithson Sid James as SeanT David Niven as JohnO Sean Connery as JackW
is there a message in you choosing the only person alive?
I always imagined that SeanT based his persona on Oliver Reed.
Bill Nighy. He always plays someone who cops off with younger women.
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.
If it's someone else and they also post on here - the culprit deserves permanent banishment to conhome and to spend the rest of eternity wearing richard burgon's soiled underwear on their head.
I'd vote for a party who advocated that sort of justice!
You don't need to hold right wing views to think Corbyn is crap. I'm left of centre but dare not put my criticism of Corbyn on fb to my family, I told them during both leader elections they were robbing decent needy people of representation and hope but to them a socialist labour party was more important than winning. Oddly enough I don't actually they will have knocked on 20 doors between them and went to music festivals at the weekend.
feel intimidated by them. I hate to think how much some of the abuse I see online would scare my gran. It really is a stain on politics, and on decent left wing people such as yourself and my activist friends, who've been active in their local Labour party for years.
Well I'm actually a left leaning lib dem who could vote for a sensible labour party in the right seat but my two brothers always told me I was middle aged middle class and boring. Whilst it hurts me to admit this most Tories I encountered in local government as with other parties understood the concept of public service even if I disagreed with them. The current labour breed have missed this as I think all that local shit is irrelevant. It's a crying shame to see hard working labour mps vilified by momentum types and not recognizing what they actually achieve for their constituents.
Out of interest - and because I know a fair few Blairites but only one Lib Dem, and he only joined last year because of Brexit - could you put a cigarette paper between being a Blairite and a left-leaning Lib Dem right now?
I have suggested to one or two of the Blairite Labour people I know that they might be happier voting Lib Dem but the tribalism runs deep - in retrospect I should have seen that coming rather than predicting vast swathes of centrist Labour voters would turn Lib Dem at this election.
Centralisation, control and target-setting versus decentralisation and localism is the principle philosophical difference.
I would agree with that, but it is to a degree why Corbyn apppeals to Lib Dems. He also believes in local accountability. At the heart of his criticisms of anti terrorist and police powers historically is the lack of democratic and judicial accountability. He sees how such excessive powers can become instruments of state oppression.
Yes, but like all left-wingers, once in power his principle driving force will (would) be how to control everything.
Are you making a pitch for PB - The Movie .... using old stars of the silver screen reanimated in CGI - Starring :
Yul Bryner as Mike Smithson Bet Davis as Peter the Punter Charles Hawtrey as Robert Smithson Sid James as SeanT David Niven as JohnO Sean Connery as JackW
A thought, albeit a depressing one. We know there was an attempt to interfere with the US and French elections via online means, and yet there's been nothing here. Why not? Better security? Obvious result so no point? Or has something been done that we haven't seen yet?
They play to a group of people that do not care about anything else but winning independence, as such changing their tack every other day doesn't matter to them. That and their readership is somewhere south of 8k.
Are you making a pitch for PB - The Movie .... using old stars of the silver screen reanimated in CGI - Starring :
Yul Bryner as Mike Smithson Bet Davis as Peter the Punter Charles Hawtrey as Robert Smithson Sid James as SeanT David Niven as JohnO Sean Connery as JackW
is there a message in you choosing the only person alive?
I always imagined that SeanT based his persona on Oliver Reed.
Bill Nighy. He always plays someone who cops off with younger women.
Are you making a pitch for PB - The Movie .... using old stars of the silver screen reanimated in CGI - Starring :
Yul Bryner as Mike Smithson Bet Davis as Peter the Punter Charles Hawtrey as Robert Smithson Sid James as SeanT David Niven as JohnO Sean Connery as JackW
I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.
Application refused.
Still confident Mr O ?
Of course.
The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
Implacable.
Any more jaunts to SW London?
Three hours delivering in deepest Tolworth earlier but knocking up (in the best possible taste) tomorrow afternoon.
I recall chatting to a chap many moons ago who spent a day knocking up in Wentworth and environs. Got round about a dozen residences all day but boy did he have a jolly time. Finished up at a cocktail party and then rumpy pumpy with the hostress.
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
Tax? I don't remember that bit; did they mean dementia tax, wealth tax, stealth tax....?
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
Tax? I don't remember that bit; did they mean dementia tax, wealth tax, stealth tax....?
I don't lead. That was what they said. Could've been the garden tax too.
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...
Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
Europa Universalis can be heavy but very rewarding and immersive.
They change the rules every time I learn them!!
Just try the board game that EU cribs many of its ideas from....
Would love ot see the changes with the most recent. The May poll had only 23% of 18-24 year olds as definitely voting (and only 47% whole population definitely voting).
I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.
Ooh the plot thickens. Or perhaps he is down the pub. Either that or Putin is turning his sights on pb...
Putin wants to move the betting markets and make some money? But he already has £billions.
BTW can anyone explain why the spreads are currently centred on a turnout of only 62.6%? Earlier today the discussion was on the general theme of a super-high turnout, probably over 65%, thanks to all these new young voters going out to vote.
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
Tax? I don't remember that bit; did they mean dementia tax, wealth tax, stealth tax....?
I don't lead. That was what they said. Could've been the garden tax too.
A thought, albeit a depressing one. We know there was an attempt to interfere with the US and French elections via online means, and yet there's been nothing here. Why not? Better security? Obvious result so no point? Or has something been done that we haven't seen yet?
A thought, albeit a depressing one. We know there was an attempt to interfere with the US and French elections via online means, and yet there's been nothing here. Why not? Better security? Obvious result so no point? Or has something been done that we haven't seen yet?
Joining online polling panels would seem one obvious way in for the Russians.
Or supplying the leaked anti-Corbyn material (since Russia would want the Tories to win to deliver Brexit -- breaking up Europe is the prize).
The Conservatives will stay in power, probably with an increased majority, although there's a small possibility of a minority government. The next parliament will be dominated by Brexit, which we don't have any control over after triggering Article 50. It will be a huge mess. No-one has a clue what they are doing. Mrs May called this election, in part, on a policy of not having a policy for Brexit. She didn't get her non-policy policy mandate. Expect lots of arguements unless her majority is massive.
Where do they say that? It's a return to 2 party politics, if the result is as the Indy says, then we don't need a new party, and someone believes the result is bad, we need the one we have to do better.
I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.
* I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.
I can help you solve that problem ...
I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
I'm moving to Los Angeles
Congratulations! Taking over from the Rock for Baywatch 2?
A thought, albeit a depressing one. We know there was an attempt to interfere with the US and French elections via online means, and yet there's been nothing here. Why not? Better security? Obvious result so no point? Or has something been done that we haven't seen yet?
We aren't important enough.
PS: if the result is obvious, can you share?
It's not yet in the bag but so long as young people don't take their own pen, it's covered off.
I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.
* I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.
I can help you solve that problem ...
I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
I'm moving to Los Angeles
Congratulations! Taking over from the Rock for Baywatch 2?
If the national polls are anywhere near accurate and Labour are close in Vauxhall, then I think Farron, Clegg, Mulholland and Lamb are toast.
Eh? Vauxhall is a 'Labour' defence. I use the inverted commas because it is the odious Kate Hoey who is the Labour MP there. Let's hope she loses.
I was confused too, but I think the point was if LDs are up massively in Vauxhall but the national polls are right they are making no progress, then it is likely the LDs are doing well in London but poorly elsewhere, meaning other LDs are under threat?
Ladbrokes again are best priced 5-6 joint favourire the 2 in Hove.Some confidence this will stay red.Peter Kyle is a no-brainer in a Corbyn government.
Joining online polling panels would seem one obvious way in for the Russians.
GCHQ boasts of being able to manipulate online polls, but I assume they mean defeating the basic checks that some voodoo polls use (rate limiting, IP checks and so on), not filling panels with puppets. I wouldn't say it is impossible unless a pollster has some thorough verification, not that I think that's happening here.
When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...
Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
Europa Universalis can be heavy but very rewarding and immersive.
They change the rules every time I learn them!!
Just try the board game that EU cribs many of its ideas from....
I managed to get a second hand copy; so many cardboard chits!! I gave up in the end and went back to the computer version.
Elm Park! Used to love going there on my bike as a kid. Most famous for the tube station piping classical music through the speakers to calm the nerves, and the BNP meetings in the old pub. No mention of Ukip winning, alas for my 33/1 bet
Where do they say that? It's a return to 2 party politics, if the result is as the Indy says, then we don't need a new party, and someone believes the result is bad, we need the one we have to do better.
If voters want a centre ground party they are sure as hell going about showing it the wrong way it seems.
If the national polls are anywhere near accurate and Labour are close in Vauxhall, then I think Farron, Clegg, Mulholland and Lamb are toast.
Eh? Vauxhall is a 'Labour' defence. I use the inverted commas because it is the odious Kate Hoey who is the Labour MP there. Let's hope she loses.
I was confused too, but I think the point was if LDs are up massively in Vauxhall but the national polls are right they are making no progress, then it is likely the LDs are doing well in London but poorly elsewhere, meaning other LDs are under threat?
I think Ian's point is the correct one. If the LDs are up where it matters, it could be under the radar in a national poll but they could outperform on seats. If we have a return to tactical voting, all bets are off.
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.
* I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.
I can help you solve that problem ...
I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
I'm moving to Los Angeles
Congratulations! Taking over from the Rock for Baywatch 2?
I ran a social experiment tonight. I asked two voters who said they weren't very interested in politics what they recalled of the campaign. They named the following seven items:
Care Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses) Police cuts Theresa May's u turn Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up The terrorist attacks Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...
Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
+1 for Paradox. Although City Skylines would appeal to the aspirant mayors in here.
Agreed. I used to play their WW2 games a lot too, before I got a bit too busy. The economics were rubbish but the politics were delightfully detailed - you could simulate what would have appened if the USA went Communit with President Gus Hall, or Britain went pro-Nazi, or other unlikely alternate histories.
Is that hearts of iron? The various versions struggle to get the right balance between complexity/micro-management and over-simplification.
Hearts of Iron IV is a serious time thief
Yes, HOI. I never got past HOI III. The military side was fascinating, but the dumbed-down eonomics seemed a real pity. How does HOI IV change it?
I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.
* I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.
I can help you solve that problem ...
I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
I'm moving to Los Angeles
Congratulations! Taking over from the Rock for Baywatch 2?
When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...
Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
Europa Universalis can be heavy but very rewarding and immersive.
They change the rules every time I learn them!!
Just try the board game that EU cribs many of its ideas from....
I managed to get a second hand copy; so many cardboard chits!! I gave up in the end and went back to the computer version.
Empires at arms? Read the rulebook and look forward to a brilliant game...but unplayable in practice.
Going for the 'he's clueless' approach rather than 'he's a terrorist(apologist)' approach I see (yes they mention it, but it's one of many points, and the image is about him being a fool, not dangerous).
Where do they say that? It's a return to 2 party politics, if the result is as the Indy says, then we don't need a new party, and someone believes the result is bad, we need the one we have to do better.
If voters want a centre ground party they are sure as hell going about showing it the wrong way it seems.
Indeed! It reminds me of the Greens talking about being the voice of the people, such a disconnect.
If the national polls are anywhere near accurate and Labour are close in Vauxhall, then I think Farron, Clegg, Mulholland and Lamb are toast.
Eh? Vauxhall is a 'Labour' defence. I use the inverted commas because it is the odious Kate Hoey who is the Labour MP there. Let's hope she loses.
Sorry, I mean if the Lib Dems are close (i.e. if they are picking up a lot of votes here, they are losing them elsewhere to stay standing still).
There are special circumstances in Vauxhall. It's a deep red, ultra liberal, highly europhile, central London seat. Hoey is a socially conservative arch Labour Leaver who fraternised with Farage. It is has possibly the most incongruous MP of any seat in the whole country.
I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.
* I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.
I can help you solve that problem ...
I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
I'm moving to Los Angeles
Is that a long-term move? Will you still be on PB?
Of course I'll still post!
I don't know if it's long-term. I'm thinking of it as a two year project. But you never know. Maybe I'll end up staying.
If Kaboom 1 Was YouGov showing a bigger Con Lead (still on) and Kaboom 2 was Survation showing a small Lab Lead (now cancelled) what does it mean for PB Bedwetters?
When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...
Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
+1 for Paradox. Although City Skylines would appeal to the aspirant mayors in here.
Agreed. I used to play their WW2 games a lot too, before I got a bit too busy. The economics were rubbish but the politics were delightfully detailed - you could simulate what would have appened if the USA went Communit with President Gus Hall, or Britain went pro-Nazi, or other unlikely alternate histories.
Is that hearts of iron? The various versions struggle to get the right balance between complexity/micro-management and over-simplification.
Hearts of Iron IV is a serious time thief
Yes, HOI. I never got past HOI III. The military side was fascinating, but the dumbed-down eonomics seemed a real pity. How does HOI IV change it?
I understood it simplified a lot of the micro-management from III but spoiled the depth of the game in the process. So I didn't buy it. Maybe I should reconsider?
Comments
Care
Diane Abbott (this drew particularly strong responses)
Police cuts
Theresa May's u turn
Jeremy Corbyn's sums not adding up
The terrorist attacks
Tax
I thought that was an excellent summary of the election.
That's all.
Oh boy.
That doesn't mean one party is very confident, but it probably means it is *relatively* close.
Must admit I didn't think the Kremlin would be hacking PB, despite its central important to UK democracy.
"At last - somebody worse than me!!"
Oh please let it be true.
Would love ot see the changes with the most recent. The May poll had only 23% of 18-24 year olds as definitely voting (and only 47% whole population definitely voting).
BTW can anyone explain why the spreads are currently centred on a turnout of only 62.6%? Earlier today the discussion was on the general theme of a super-high turnout, probably over 65%, thanks to all these new young voters going out to vote.
*prods*
PS: if the result is obvious, can you share?
Or supplying the leaked anti-Corbyn material (since Russia would want the Tories to win to deliver Brexit -- breaking up Europe is the prize).
Where do they say that? It's a return to 2 party politics, if the result is as the Indy says, then we don't need a new party, and someone believes the result is bad, we need the one we have to do better.
Kantar TNS
2015
Tory 34
Lab 33
LD 7
UKIP 15
2017
Tory 43
Lab 38
LD 7
UKIP 14
Opinium
2015
Tory 35
Lab 34
LD 8
UKIP 12
2017
Tory 43
Lab 36
LD 8
UKIP 5
Comres
2015
Tory 35
Labour 34
LD 9
UKIP 12
2017
Tory 44
Lab 34
LD 9
UKIP 5
ICM
2015
Tory 34
Lab 35
LD 9
UKIP 11
2017
Tory 46
Lab 34
LD 7
UKIP 5
So every pollster showing a swing to the Tories since 2015 based on their final polls then and now, especially ICM and Comres
just blown up in his face?
https://twitter.com/davehill/status/872551497405534208
#FakeNews
#FakeDavidHerdson
Lib Dem guidance for knockers-up is always: "Don't worry about irritating people, they'll have forgotten about it by next time".
https://twitter.com/stephenckerr/status/872525824918007809
So only 1 not 2 polls showing Labour leads then?
Terrible headline though. They can do better.
Boon needs Kabooning.
I don't know if it's long-term. I'm thinking of it as a two year project. But you never know. Maybe I'll end up staying.
If Kaboom 1 Was YouGov showing a bigger Con Lead (still on) and Kaboom 2 was Survation showing a small Lab Lead (now cancelled) what does it mean for PB Bedwetters?