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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Your essential Thursday evening companion. AndyJS’s general el

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  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    Kantar makes sense, their last was a little while back. Around the same time Survation was +6, Yougov was +7.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472
    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Darn.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Well at least I greened up rather than redded out on next pm this time.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Saltire said:

    Saltire said:

    Still think that the 20% of people who said that they are considering voting tactically could be massively important to the outcome of the election. There is no clear idea where the might help one party more than another (Except against the SNP) but I think that this could lead to quite few unexpected holds and gains of seats.
    Since this puts a fair bit of doubt in the figures I would the final outcome being quite different to what the models and UNS predict.
    Currently I am thinking we could see a result something like this:

    CON 44% 357 SEATS
    LAB 35% 216 SEATS
    LD 10% 13 SEATS
    UKIP 3% 0 SEATS
    GRN 2% 1 SEAT
    SNP/PC 5% 43/2 SEATS
    OTH 1% 0 SEATS
    NI 18 SEATS

    Majority of 64

    Tactical voting in E&W more anti Tory than Anti Corbyn but off set by Tory gains in Midlands and the North
    LD on 13 is basically treading water in E&W and gaining 4 in Scotland.

    If the gap is as big as 9% the majority is likely to be significantly greater than 64.

    The more the third party vote decays, the more irrelevant tactical voting becomes, because the third parties typically have few voters available to lend in most constituencies, and the surviving third party voters know their candidate hasn't a prayer and will mostly be sticking to their guns because of conviction.

    Save for the small handful of seats in which the Lib Dems, Plaid and the Greens are competitive in England and Wales (the dozen they hold, plus perhaps another dozen or so realistic targets,) this is a straight fight between the Tories and Labour now. Scotland, of course, is a bit of a law unto itself nowadays.
    I think that the extra 2.5% difference in the CON/LAB from last time is not so huge that it make a big increase in the Tory seats.
    Indeed when I put into the Election Calculus model with a SNP41C29LAB21LD8 split for Scotland I got this result for the Tories with slightly different numbers for the rest.
    Labour will >25% in Scotland. The Corbyn surge is very evident in the M8 corridor.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,290

    Tory leads of 7, 12, 10, 8, and now 5 today. These pollsters....

    And SurveyMonkey Con +4.

    So six polls - leads of 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    TudorRose said:

    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...

    Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
    There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
    Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
    Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
    Europa Universalis can be heavy but very rewarding and immersive.
    They change the rules every time I learn them!!
  • Options
    calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    edited June 2017
    Based solely on expressed voting intentions, we have used multi-poll data to estimate seat totals for each party, accounting for eleven different constituency ‘types’. Our central estimate is that the Conservatives will win 341 seats (+10), Labour 232 (nc), the SNP 44 (-12), the Liberal Democrats 10 (+2), Plaid Cymru 3 (nc) and Greens 1 (nc). This would mean a formal majority of 32 for Theresa May, only slightly larger than it is now. However, there is a wide margin of error around these seat totals as specific constituency effects (which we cannot reliably detect) can be quite substantial. Furthermore, if the ‘best PM’ or ‘best party to manage the economy’ metrics are more indicative of the final result, a much larger Conservative majority is possibl

    http://uk.kantar.com/ge2017/2017/conservatives-heading-for-election-win/
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    You'd take Osborne back right now in heartbeat wouldn't you?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325

    kle4 said:

    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    Surely the big picture is of stability in the final week.

    Con lead was falling significantly up to then.

    But we now have five final polls and taken together they suggest no discernable change from previous polls.

    ..which is why any that do, will have a disproportionate result on the news agenda, the night before the election itself.
    I don't think they'll make any difference - TV news isn't mentioning polls at all.

    I guess a shock poll may lead a tabloid tomorrow but surely they'll just be in full cheerleading / attack mode.
    A massive contrast with all the pattern of the last week's polls, which as everyone has said has been all about the narrative of stabilisation of the tory lead, and Labour locked in in an improved but no longer mobile position, is sure to get coverage.

    This would have to be a either a Labour lead or a Tory twenty-pointer, though, mind.
    Someone posted that Jim Messina reported an unusually high number of don't knows. It could be they've all now jumped in the same direction -- possibly Tory given the anti-Corbyn onslaught on today's tabloid front pages.
    I acknowledge I clearly do not understand people given the polling has already gone very differently to how I expected, but I really do not understand why the don't knows would suddenly stop saying don't know and go Tory because of that, when to a lesser extent they've been hearing that for weeks.
    Undecided voters would probably make up their minds today one way or the other simply because the election is tomorrow. If the DKs were predominantly the same persuasion -- anti-Corbyn Labour, or Tory remainers, or homeless Ukippers (because Ukip aren't standing) then they could all have been unduly influenced by very recent news like today's front pages (or sympathy for Diane Abbott in the other direction). Maybe we will have been told by the time I finish typing this.
    Polls consistently show that some 7% of voters (claim to have) made their mind up in the polling station.
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    surbiton said:

    I thought David Herdson went out canvassing. I did not realise he had been in the pub all evening.

    :)
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,491
    MikeL said:

    Tory leads of 7, 12, 10, 8, and now 5 today. These pollsters....

    And SurveyMonkey Con +4.

    So six polls - leads of 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12
    Clear as mud, eh?
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    Pulpstar said:

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
    It'd be very entertaining, if you had no assets or interest in the future of the UK.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    Pulpstar said:

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
    Brexit RIP?
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    midwinter said:

    Chameleon said:

    If May emerges on Friday without a majority, just how badly will she go down in the all time rankings of Con leaders?

    Several rungs below IDS....quite the achievement
    HYUFD will probably still be telling us she'll outlast Thatcher as she comes out to announce her resignation.
    He's still insisting that Le Pen won POF17
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    surbiton said:

    I thought David Herdson went out canvassing. I did not realise he had been in the pub all evening.

    If his account has not been hacked or he is not upto some mischief, this eerily reminds m eof the night before the 1992 election when something was in the air about a last minute swing.

    Could the undecideds have plumped more towards Corbyn ?

    But how would David know by leafleting? Perhaps he's caught whatever Abbott's got....
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm moving to Los Angeles

    Are you making a pitch for PB - The Movie .... using old stars of the silver screen reanimated in CGI - Starring :

    Yul Bryner as Mike Smithson
    Bet Davis as Peter the Punter
    Charles Hawtrey as Robert Smithson
    Sid James as SeanT
    David Niven as JohnO
    Sean Connery as JackW
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,876
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,971

    "Kaboom" from a pollster who has just given a final poll with a Conservative lead of 12 is unlikely to be uncongenial to Conservatives.

    Maybe he is doing a new version of Baldrick's war poem
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,676
    felix said:

    I'm still bemused by David Herdson's post - it seemed so blunt and has been followed by silence. Not like him at all.

    But why would Putin hack Mr Herdson's vanilla account?
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,317
    felix said:

    I'm still bemused by David Herdson's post - it seemed so blunt and has been followed by silence. Not like him at all.

    Perhaps he's taking a long warm bath with a pint of whiskey.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    MTimT said:

    what's happening in 6 weeks? A big move?

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Serious question for tomorrow:

    What's everyone drinking?

    I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.

    * I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.

    I can help you solve that problem ...
    I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
    Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
    I'm moving to Los Angeles
    Congratulations! Taking over from the Rock for Baywatch 2?
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662

    MikeL said:

    Tory leads of 7, 12, 10, 8, and now 5 today. These pollsters....

    And SurveyMonkey Con +4.

    So six polls - leads of 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12
    Clear as mud, eh?
    It looks like a Fibonacci sequence.
  • Options
    EssexitEssexit Posts: 1,956
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
    Brexit RIP?
    No, Tim.
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886
    The more I think of the possibility of a hung parliament, the more excited I get by it.
  • Options
    Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Still if David Herdson is accurate, I'm going to be unbearably smug,

    See, told you Cameron and Osborne are awesome, you feckers didn't realise how lucky you were to have them in charge for a decade.

    Being smug about mental Corbynite socialism is a luxury afforded only to the rich, i.e. those with enough resources to survive it. A lot of us who aren't so lucky are genuinely terrified by the prospect.

    Fortunately, I don't see how the Tories end up doing that badly. Where is Labour meant to find enough votes from to make this a close race?

    That said, it would probably be better for my sanity if I took a rest from here for the next 24 hours...
  • Options
    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    rcs1000 said:

    MTimT said:

    what's happening in 6 weeks? A big move?

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Serious question for tomorrow:

    What's everyone drinking?

    I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.

    * I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.

    I can help you solve that problem ...
    I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
    Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
    I'm moving to Los Angeles
    Is that a long-term move? Will you still be on PB?
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
    Brexit RIP?
    Quite the irony if the Tory Leavers got rid of the one man in the last quarter of a century to win them a majority and it screwed up Brexit because they couldn't even beat Corbyn without him.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325

    IanB2 said:

    MikeL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Final Kantar poll Con 43 labour 38 Libdem 7 UKIP4

    That's the first final poll to show big movement.

    Previous Kantar was 43/33.
    Where has the +5 come from?
    Lib Dems, SNP, Green
    Labour just squeezing the life out of the minor Lefties on that poll.
    Or a resumption of tactical voting. Which would look the same in the polls, given that a majority of the challengers to Tory MPs are Labour. From the headline VI we simply cannot tell.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
    Implacable.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,325

    "Kaboom" from a pollster who has just given a final poll with a Conservative lead of 12 is unlikely to be uncongenial to Conservatives.

    Look, I know you're a lawyer but can you cut out the double negatives please.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,356
    ICM, Yougov and Survation are playing for high stakes tonight. Some of them are going to look ridiculous in only 25 hours. The pressure is on.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,195
    PeterC said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MTimT said:

    what's happening in 6 weeks? A big move?

    rcs1000 said:

    Charles said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Serious question for tomorrow:

    What's everyone drinking?

    I'm wondering about opening a bottle of Ridge Montebello* at 9:50pm tomorrow evening. I'll probably finish it about two, and move onto the whisky before crashing out at four.

    * I wouldn't normally drink such nice wine on my own. But we're moving to LA in about six weeks and I have a whole cellar to get through.

    I can help you solve that problem ...
    I have (lots of) Ridge Montebello, (a bit of) Ridge Estate, (a case of) Haut Brion, some Corton Charlemagne, a (bottle of) Mouton Rothschild, and a bunch of other less valuable stuff. I'm happy to sell to any PBers at a sensible discount to true value, because not even SeanT could drink all my wine in the next six weeks.
    Waiting for 008 to announce challenge accepted!!!
    I'm moving to Los Angeles
    Is that a long-term move? Will you still be on PB?
    They do have the internet in LA!
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 30,970
    IanB2 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
    Brexit RIP?
    Britain RIP
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100

    midwinter said:

    Chameleon said:

    If May emerges on Friday without a majority, just how badly will she go down in the all time rankings of Con leaders?

    Several rungs below IDS....quite the achievement
    HYUFD will probably still be telling us she'll outlast Thatcher as she comes out to announce her resignation.
    He's still insisting that Le Pen won POF17
    Which she did in the first round by region
  • Options
    peterbusspeterbuss Posts: 109
    Interesting to me is that apart from a couple none of the others are picking up any late swing to Labour. As to who is right its anybodys guess.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472
    Why do I spend so much time on this website?

    Can someone please tell me? Help me?
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    Pulpstar said:

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
    Sounds good to me.

    Scotland finally given her freedom to be a modern European state.

    May gone by Friday.

    Soft Brexit.

    Hard left madness restricted by Liberals and Labour moderates.

    Won't happen.

    Tory majority of 98.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm moving to Los Angeles

    Are you making a pitch for PB - The Movie .... using old stars of the silver screen reanimated in CGI - Starring :

    Yul Bryner as Mike Smithson
    Bet Davis as Peter the Punter
    Charles Hawtrey as Robert Smithson
    Sid James as SeanT
    David Niven as JohnO
    Sean Connery as JackW
    is there a message in you choosing the only person alive?
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,962
    nichomar said:

    kyf_100 said:

    nichomar said:


    You don't need to hold right wing views to think Corbyn is crap. I'm left of centre but dare not put my criticism of Corbyn on fb to my family, I told them during both leader elections they were robbing decent needy people of representation and hope but to them a socialist labour party was more important than winning. Oddly enough I don't actually they will have knocked on 20 doors between them and went to music festivals at the weekend.

    Yes, you're right. I have a few friends on the Blairite side of Labour. The worst vitriol on any Facebook thread I've seen this campaign was when one of them, a staunch activist since our student days, posted his despair in the aftermath of the locals last month. He hasn't posted a word since.

    The Corbynites hear nothing but the deafening sound of their own voices and don't think why everyone else has gone silent. They assume that only the old (who they think aren't on social media) vote Tory and that everyone else agrees with them.

    I feel intimidated by them. I hate to think how much some of the abuse I see online would scare my gran. It really is a stain on politics, and on decent left wing people such as yourself and my activist friends, who've been active in their local Labour party for years.
    Well I'm actually a left leaning lib dem who could vote for a sensible labour party in the right seat but my two brothers always told me I was middle aged middle class and boring. Whilst it hurts me to admit this most Tories I encountered in local government as with other parties understood the concept of public service even if I disagreed with them. The current labour breed have missed this as I think all that local shit is irrelevant. It's a crying shame to see hard working labour mps vilified by momentum types and not recognizing what they actually achieve for their constituents.
    Out of interest - and because I know a fair few Blairites but only one Lib Dem, and he only joined last year because of Brexit - could you put a cigarette paper between being a Blairite and a left-leaning Lib Dem right now?

    I have suggested to one or two of the Blairite Labour people I know that they might be happier voting Lib Dem but the tribalism runs deep - in retrospect I should have seen that coming rather than predicting vast swathes of centrist Labour voters would turn Lib Dem at this election.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    calum said:

    That's a big fall in the Tory lead within one pollster's series. Have any of the pollsters admitted tweaking their weightings or methodology any during that campaign, or are we indeed comparing like for like?
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    Chameleon said:

    If May emerges on Friday without a majority, just how badly will she go down in the all time rankings of Con leaders?

    Several rungs below IDS....quite the achievement
    HYUFD will probably still be telling us she'll outlast Thatcher as she comes out to announce her resignation.
    He's still insisting that Le Pen won POF17
    Which she did in the first round by region
    Thanks for confirming
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,676
    MikeL said:

    Tory leads of 7, 12, 10, 8, and now 5 today. These pollsters....

    And SurveyMonkey Con +4.

    So six polls - leads of 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12
    Looks more like a set of lottery numbers.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    You'd take Osborne back right now in heartbeat wouldn't you?
    If it's between Corbyn and Osborne, I'd lick his toes and beg for forgiveness.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,100

    midwinter said:

    Chameleon said:

    If May emerges on Friday without a majority, just how badly will she go down in the all time rankings of Con leaders?

    Several rungs below IDS....quite the achievement
    HYUFD will probably still be telling us she'll outlast Thatcher as she comes out to announce her resignation.
    I never said she will outlast Thatcher but she could certainly last until 2025
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,876
    JohnO said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
    Implacable.
    What size Con majority have you gone for?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    Still if David Herdson is accurate, I'm going to be unbearably smug,

    See, told you Cameron and Osborne are awesome, you feckers didn't realise how lucky you were to have them in charge for a decade.

    Being smug about mental Corbynite socialism is a luxury afforded only to the rich, i.e. those with enough resources to survive it. A lot of us who aren't so lucky are genuinely terrified by the prospect.

    Fortunately, I don't see how the Tories end up doing that badly. Where is Labour meant to find enough votes from to make this a close race?

    That said, it would probably be better for my sanity if I took a rest from here for the next 24 hours...
    Well I'm wealthy enough to cope, but at least you know how I feel about Brexit.
  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
    Implacable.
    What size Con majority have you gone for?
    At least 100.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,491

    MikeL said:

    Tory leads of 7, 12, 10, 8, and now 5 today. These pollsters....

    And SurveyMonkey Con +4.

    So six polls - leads of 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12
    Looks more like a set of lottery numbers.
    Are Survation or Yougov the Bonus Ball?
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    I should have put,still confident of a big tory majority ;-)
  • Options

    MikeL said:

    Tory leads of 7, 12, 10, 8, and now 5 today. These pollsters....

    And SurveyMonkey Con +4.

    So six polls - leads of 4, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12
    Looks more like a set of lottery numbers.
    ..which seems to sum up a certain amount of the polling so far.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    kyf_100 said:

    nichomar said:

    kyf_100 said:

    nichomar said:


    You don't need to hold right wing views to think Corbyn is crap. I'm left of centre but dare not put my criticism of Corbyn on fb to my family, I told them during both leader elections they were robbing decent needy people of representation and hope but to them a socialist labour party was more important than winning. Oddly enough I don't actually they will have knocked on 20 doors between them and went to music festivals at the weekend.

    Yes, you're right. I have a few friends on the Blairite side of Labour. The worst vitriol on any Facebook thread I've seen this campaign was when one of them, a staunch activist since our student days, posted his despair in the aftermath of the locals last month. He hasn't posted a word since.

    The Corbynites hear nothing but the deafening sound of their own voices and don't think why everyone else has gone silent. They assume that only the old (who they think aren't on social media) vote Tory and that everyone else agrees with them.

    I feel intimidated by them. I hate to think how much some of the abuse I see online would scare my gran. It really is a stain on politics, and on decent left wing people such as yourself and my activist friends, who've been active in their local Labour party for years.
    Well I'm actually a left leaning lib dem who could vote for a sensible labour party in the right seat but my two brothers always told me I was middle aged middle class and boring. Whilst it hurts me to admit this most Tories I encountered in local government as with other parties understood the concept of public service even if I disagreed with them. The current labour breed have missed this as I think all that local shit is irrelevant. It's a crying shame to see hard working labour mps vilified by momentum types and not recognizing what they actually achieve for their constituents.
    Out of interest - and because I know a fair few Blairites but only one Lib Dem, and he only joined last year because of Brexit - could you put a cigarette paper between being a Blairite and a left-leaning Lib Dem right now?

    I have suggested to one or two of the Blairite Labour people I know that they might be happier voting Lib Dem but the tribalism runs deep - in retrospect I should have seen that coming rather than predicting vast swathes of centrist Labour voters would turn Lib Dem at this election.
    Centralisation, control and target-setting versus decentralisation and localism is the principle philosophical difference.
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    MikeL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @iainjwatson: Final Kantar poll Con 43 labour 38 Libdem 7 UKIP4

    That's the first final poll to show big movement.

    Previous Kantar was 43/33.
    Where has the +5 come from?
    Lib Dems, SNP, Green
    Labour just squeezing the life out of the minor Lefties on that poll.
    Or a resumption of tactical voting. Which would look the same in the polls, given that a majority of the challengers to Tory MPs are Labour. From the headline VI we simply cannot tell.
    Indeed. Could actually work out better for the Libs if so.
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    "Kaboom" from a pollster who has just given a final poll with a Conservative lead of 12 is unlikely to be uncongenial to Conservatives.

    Look, I know you're a lawyer but can you cut out the double negatives please.
    If it's a Yougov Lab lead or major shift to Lab, which turns out be right, then ICM would be exposed to the twin charges that they suck like a Dyson at their core competence and that their CEO (or whatever he is) is an infantile twat. The more likely theory is a major shift which suggests ICM right all along.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112
    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    Chameleon said:

    If May emerges on Friday without a majority, just how badly will she go down in the all time rankings of Con leaders?

    Several rungs below IDS....quite the achievement
    HYUFD will probably still be telling us she'll outlast Thatcher as she comes out to announce her resignation.
    I never said she will outlast Thatcher but she could certainly last until 2025
    She wont last till 20;25 on Friday if she doesn't get more seats than Dave
  • Options
    frpenkridgefrpenkridge Posts: 670
    I've decided that this will be the last election that I will take seriously. They used to be fun but now they are cruel and unusual punishment. I blame Mike Smithson.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,876
    edited June 2017
    JohnO said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
    Implacable.
    What size Con majority have you gone for?
    At least 100.
    OK.

    Come on YouGov and Survation give us what you've got! We're ready! :D
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    edited June 2017
    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472
    Pulpstar said:

    If Corbyn does just do it, with the Tories on 300, he isn't going to be able to do very much, and will be highly vulnerable to ambushes in the HoC.

    Of course, conversely, that could work against the Tories further if they try and be too clever and "obstruct" his agenda.

    Corbyn and the SNP. Sweet Lord.
    I'll be crying like a disgraced televangelist.
  • Options
    TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,662
    edited June 2017

    Why do I spend so much time on this website?

    Can someone please tell me? Help me?

    I was beginning to wonder the same thing but now I know; it's the Herdson cliffhanger.... has he been abducted by Corbynistas, were his leaflets poisoned, all will be revealed in the next exciting episode of PBTories Buy Pampers!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment

    Why wouldn't it be?
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,353
    IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...

    Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
    There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
    Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
    Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
    +1 for Paradox. Although City Skylines would appeal to the aspirant mayors in here.
    Agreed. I used to play their WW2 games a lot too, before I got a bit too busy. The economics were rubbish but the politics were delightfully detailed - you could simulate what would have appened if the USA went Communit with President Gus Hall, or Britain went pro-Nazi, or other unlikely alternate histories.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325

    Why do I spend so much time on this website?

    Can someone please tell me? Help me?

    Whatever you are afraid of, you will find it here.
  • Options
    kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,962

    JackW said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm moving to Los Angeles

    Are you making a pitch for PB - The Movie .... using old stars of the silver screen reanimated in CGI - Starring :

    Yul Bryner as Mike Smithson
    Bet Davis as Peter the Punter
    Charles Hawtrey as Robert Smithson
    Sid James as SeanT
    David Niven as JohnO
    Sean Connery as JackW
    is there a message in you choosing the only person alive?
    I always imagined that SeanT based his persona on Oliver Reed.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I love how PB swings one minute from Tory Mania to total panic based on a few polls.

    Especially knowing how polls have been during this GE campaign.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,195

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment

    Why wouldn't it be?
    Hack by Putin?
  • Options
    ProdicusProdicus Posts: 658
    calum said:

    Based solely on expressed voting intentions, we have used multi-poll data to estimate seat totals for each party, accounting for eleven different constituency ‘types’. Our central estimate is that the Conservatives will win 341 seats (+10), Labour 232 (nc), the SNP 44 (-12), the Liberal Democrats 10 (+2), Plaid Cymru 3 (nc) and Greens 1 (nc). This would mean a formal majority of 32 for Theresa May, only slightly larger than it is now. However, there is a wide margin of error around these seat totals as specific constituency effects (which we cannot reliably detect) can be quite substantial. Furthermore, if the ‘best PM’ or ‘best party to manage the economy’ metrics are more indicative of the final result, a much larger Conservative majority is possibl

    http://uk.kantar.com/ge2017/2017/conservatives-heading-for-election-win/

    "Furthermore, if the ‘best PM’ or ‘best party to manage the economy’ metrics are more indicative of the final result, a much larger Conservative majority is possible."
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,947

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment

    If I do not panic and wet the bed at a poll showing a Lab lead, there's no need for people to check, it is still me.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    "Kaboom" from a pollster who has just given a final poll with a Conservative lead of 12 is unlikely to be uncongenial to Conservatives.

    Look, I know you're a lawyer but can you cut out the double negatives please.
    I'm a lawyer. That's all I have.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,317
    edited June 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    "Kaboom" from a pollster who has just given a final poll with a Conservative lead of 12 is unlikely to be uncongenial to Conservatives.

    Look, I know you're a lawyer but can you cut out the double negatives please.
    If it's a Yougov Lab lead or major shift to Lab, which turns out be right, then ICM would be exposed to the twin charges that they suck like a Dyson at their core competence and that their CEO (or whatever he is) is an infantile twat. The more likely theory is a major shift which suggests ICM right all along.
    Perhaps he's like David Miliband - grinning from ear to ear though he knew hos brother had beaten him.
  • Options
    peterbusspeterbuss Posts: 109
    >

    I never said she will outlast Thatcher but she could certainly last until 2025

    Trust me us Party members will never allow Mrs May ever to fight another election. By a long long distance quite the worst campaign our lot have ever run in my lifetime and believe me I have seen some!
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    TudorRose said:

    Why do I spend so much time on this website?

    Can someone please tell me? Help me?

    I was beginning to wonder the same thing but now I know; it's the Herdson cliffhanger.... has he been abducted by Corbynistas, were his leaflets poisoned, all will be revealed in the next exciting episode of PBTories Buy Pampers!
    :) Bravo!!
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325

    IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...

    Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
    There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
    Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
    Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
    +1 for Paradox. Although City Skylines would appeal to the aspirant mayors in here.
    Agreed. I used to play their WW2 games a lot too, before I got a bit too busy. The economics were rubbish but the politics were delightfully detailed - you could simulate what would have appened if the USA went Communit with President Gus Hall, or Britain went pro-Nazi, or other unlikely alternate histories.
    Is that hearts of iron? The various versions struggle to get the right balance between complexity/micro-management and over-simplification.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment

    Why wouldn't it be?
    I edit the post to explain why.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    JohnO said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
    Implacable.
    Any more jaunts to SW London?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,965
    IanB2 said:

    Why do I spend so much time on this website?

    Can someone please tell me? Help me?

    Whatever you are afraid of, you will find it here.
    Bedwetting levels MAX
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,044
    edited June 2017
    Candidates I hope lose tomorrow:

    Tim Farron
    Vince Cable
    Zac Goldsmith
    David Tredinnick
    Claire Louise-Leyland
    Dennis Skinner
    That eight year old SNP MP lady
    Alex Salmond
    Caroline Lucas
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    I love how PB swings one minute from Tory Mania to total panic based on a few polls.

    Especially knowing how polls have been during this GE campaign.


    They only have two states of mind, Tories, hubristic complacency or hysterical panic.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472
    TudorRose said:

    Why do I spend so much time on this website?

    Can someone please tell me? Help me?

    I was beginning to wonder the same thing but now I know; it's the Herdson cliffhanger.... has he been abducted by Corbynistas, were his leaflets poisoned, all will be revealed in the next exciting episode of PBTories Buy Pampers!
    Lol!
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,472

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.

    Fux sake.

    Thanks TSE.
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment

    Why wouldn't it be?
    Hacked account??
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,947
    edited June 2017

    IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...

    Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
    There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
    Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
    Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
    +1 for Paradox. Although City Skylines would appeal to the aspirant mayors in here.
    Agreed. I used to play their WW2 games a lot too, before I got a bit too busy. The economics were rubbish but the politics were delightfully detailed - you could simulate what would have appened if the USA went Communit with President Gus Hall, or Britain went pro-Nazi, or other unlikely alternate histories.
    Something to cheer up the Corbynistas come Friday? They can live out their dreams there.

    (I played Democracy 3 once, trying to be as populist and sneakily set up a police state, it didn't work out so well - the economy completely crashed, crime actually skyrocketed and I was assassinated about 6 months into office).
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Ishmael_Z said:

    "Kaboom" from a pollster who has just given a final poll with a Conservative lead of 12 is unlikely to be uncongenial to Conservatives.

    Look, I know you're a lawyer but can you cut out the double negatives please.
    If it's a Yougov Lab lead or major shift to Lab, which turns out be right, then ICM would be exposed to the twin charges that they suck like a Dyson at their core competence and that their CEO (or whatever he is) is an infantile twat. The more likely theory is a major shift which suggests ICM right all along.
    I presume Yougov will have a huge sample tonight. 5000, 10000 ? I am not talking about theirmodel.
  • Options
    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.

    If it's someone else and they also post on here - the culprit deserves permanent banishment to conhome and to spend the rest of eternity wearing richard burgon's soiled underwear on their head.
  • Options
    ChameleonChameleon Posts: 3,886

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.

    Ooh the plot thickens. Or perhaps he is down the pub. Either that or Putin is turning his sights on pb...
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,136

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.

    Can you tell us whether the IP address was a Russian one?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    I've emailed David Herdson to check that it was him that posted that comment because I have my doubts based on the IP address used.

    Fux sake.

    Thanks TSE.
    I remember back in 2012 during the London Mayorals someone pretended to be Mike and tried to post misleading information.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Just checked previous TNS KAntar, in their tables they ask and publish the results of "Have you already voted by post"

    In their 25th-30th May poll 17% of respondents had voted by post.
  • Options
    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    I might need some new sheets.
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    You'd take Osborne back right now in heartbeat wouldn't you?
    If it's between Corbyn and Osborne, I'd lick his toes and beg for forgiveness.
    I was always a Bullingdon boys fan, but they came through at the wrong time for their own images. Two posh boys cutting the state was always going to look bad, if they had just won an election a few years later I think they would have been able to win a full majority the first time around.
  • Options
    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,491

    I love how PB swings one minute from Tory Mania to total panic based on a few polls.

    Especially knowing how polls have been during this GE campaign.

    I've officially fallen out with pollsters. They've ruined my last fortnight.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    IanB2 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    nichomar said:

    kyf_100 said:

    nichomar said:


    You don't need to hold right wing views to think Corbyn is crap. I'm left of centre but dare not put my criticism of Corbyn on fb to my family, I told them during both leader elections they were robbing decent needy people of representation and hope but to them a socialist labour party was more important than winning. Oddly enough I don't actually they will have knocked on 20 doors between them and went to music festivals at the weekend.

    Yes, you're right. I have a few friends on the Blairite side of Labour. The worst vitriol on any Facebook thread I've seen this campaign was when one of them, a staunch activist since our student days, posted his despair in the aftermath of the locals last month. He hasn't posted a word since

    I feel intimidated by them. I hate to think how much some of the abuse I see online would scare my gran. It really is a stain on politics, and on decent left wing people such as yourself and my activist friends, who've been active in their local Labour party for years.
    Well I'm actually a left leaning lib dem who could vote for a sensible labour party in the right seat but my two brothers always told me I was middle aged middle class and boring. Whilst it hurts me to admit this most Tories I encountered in local government as with other parties understood the concept of public service even if I disagreed with them. The current labour breed have missed this as I think all that local shit is irrelevant. It's a crying shame to see hard working labour mps vilified by momentum types and not recognizing what they actually achieve for their constituents.
    Out of interest - and because I know a fair few Blairites but only one Lib Dem, and he only joined last year because of Brexit - could you put a cigarette paper between being a Blairite and a left-leaning Lib Dem right now?

    I have suggested to one or two of the Blairite Labour people I know that they might be happier voting Lib Dem but the tribalism runs deep - in retrospect I should have seen that coming rather than predicting vast swathes of centrist Labour voters would turn Lib Dem at this election.
    Centralisation, control and target-setting versus decentralisation and localism is the principle philosophical difference.
    I would agree with that, but it is to a degree why Corbyn apppeals to Lib Dems. He also believes in local accountability. At the heart of his criticisms of anti terrorist and police powers historically is the lack of democratic and judicial accountability. He sees how such excessive powers can become instruments of state oppression.

  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    JackW said:

    JohnO said:

    GIN1138 said:

    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    I'd like to reapply for the bedwetters club, please.

    Application refused.
    Still confident Mr O ?
    Of course.
    The JohnO Is Not For Turning!
    Implacable.
    Any more jaunts to SW London?
    Three hours delivering in deepest Tolworth earlier but knocking up (in the best possible taste) tomorrow afternoon.
  • Options
    Bobajob_PBBobajob_PB Posts: 928
    midwinter said:

    HYUFD said:

    midwinter said:

    Chameleon said:

    If May emerges on Friday without a majority, just how badly will she go down in the all time rankings of Con leaders?

    Several rungs below IDS....quite the achievement
    HYUFD will probably still be telling us she'll outlast Thatcher as she comes out to announce her resignation.
    I never said she will outlast Thatcher but she could certainly last until 2025
    She wont last till 20;25 on Friday if she doesn't get more seats than Dave
    Chortle.
  • Options
    bardigianibardigiani Posts: 19
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Chameleon said:

    kle4 said:

    Essexit said:

    When are we expecting this poll? I want to play Civilization VI...

    Personally, I'm playhing Endless Space 2 - excellent game.
    There's so many space 4x games out there - any idea how it stacks up against rivals?
    Very well for my taste. I'm a MOO 2 fan - I like lots of rich detail plus asymmetric races plus turn-by-turn play plus decent AI. I hate3D fiddling and real-time action. Endless Space 2 is perfect for me - all the good stuff, plus evocative films of the battles (which one can switch off) but no real-time control. I'm beating the AI at Normal, but Hard is a bit more of a challeng, and it works well with humans too.
    Stellaris is a very decent recent addition to the genre. Paradox games generally are very high quality. Victoria 2 & Crusader Kings being my stand out recommendations.
    +1 for Paradox. Although City Skylines would appeal to the aspirant mayors in here.
    Agreed. I used to play their WW2 games a lot too, before I got a bit too busy. The economics were rubbish but the politics were delightfully detailed - you could simulate what would have appened if the USA went Communit with President Gus Hall, or Britain went pro-Nazi, or other unlikely alternate histories.
    Is that hearts of iron? The various versions struggle to get the right balance between complexity/micro-management and over-simplification.
    Hearts of Iron IV is a serious time thief
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,325
    Prodicus said:

    calum said:

    Based solely on expressed voting intentions, we have used multi-poll data to estimate seat totals for each party, accounting for eleven different constituency ‘types’. Our central estimate is that the Conservatives will win 341 seats (+10), Labour 232 (nc), the SNP 44 (-12), the Liberal Democrats 10 (+2), Plaid Cymru 3 (nc) and Greens 1 (nc). This would mean a formal majority of 32 for Theresa May, only slightly larger than it is now. However, there is a wide margin of error around these seat totals as specific constituency effects (which we cannot reliably detect) can be quite substantial. Furthermore, if the ‘best PM’ or ‘best party to manage the economy’ metrics are more indicative of the final result, a much larger Conservative majority is possibl

    http://uk.kantar.com/ge2017/2017/conservatives-heading-for-election-win/

    "Furthermore, if the ‘best PM’ or ‘best party to manage the economy’ metrics are more indicative of the final result, a much larger Conservative majority is possible."
    I just want to know why Kantar spent half an hour in my living room four weeks ago asking me which type of olive oil I buy, and whether I would consider a new type of blu tack that doesn't mark the walls, but never asked how I would be voting?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388

    Why do I spend so much time on this website?

    Can someone please tell me? Help me?

    I always used to say "A man should have a hobby" at times like these.

    Then I realised.

    I'm quoting Psycho. Literally a quote about a murdered.
This discussion has been closed.