politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa’s Tories drop to their lowest level yet on the Commons
Comments
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Amber Rudd is her own woman. I'm sure she could have taken a time-out if she wanted it. Maybe work is how she is dealing with it?old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 2017
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Good closer from Tim. Best saved till last from him.0
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What are our final rankings? For me:
1. Corbyn
2. Rudd
3. Angus
4. Nuttal
5. Farron
6. Welsh woman
7. Lucas0 -
Only Rudd shook hands w Nuttall. What childish twats the others really are0
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Cruel of May to make her do it.marke09 said:Sun PoliticsVerified account @SunPolitics
EXCL: Amber Rudd is debating Jeremy Corbyn tonight despite the death of her elderly father just days ago https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3693764/amber-rudd-stands-up-to-debate-jeremy-corbyn-despite-death-of-elderly-father-just-days-before … #BBCDebate0 -
You really have to question the point of these TV debates. What influence will it really have? It is only a small fraction of the population who are going to watch it, of whom many will already have made their mind up about who they are going to vote for anyway. Its boring. And it goes on for 90 minutes.0
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Too bad he doesn't say the same about British citizens who sign up for the Israeli armed forces and go and murder Palestinians.RobD said:
The one about not letting Jihadists back in after they've pledged allegiance to ISIS? Yeah, I would bloody hope so!IanB2 said:
Nuttall got a big round of applause on the terrorism question.jonny83 said:If it was balanced UkIP would have got some cheers mentioning the EU, Nuttall got nothing but jeers.
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Told to hold applause until end, apparently the audience preferred to not applause at all. Because Rudd was the closer?
I'll accept it was balanced, but the Tories were very very quiet in there. And Rudd wasn't so bad that they couldn't muster up the energy if they wanted.0 -
The attack line loses a bit of impact because I suspect Corbyn's standing in his party has risen somewhat.kle4 said:
Got there in the end. I'm surprised the Tories haven't pushed it harder. No response from crowd, who orgasmed at Corbyn's rebuttal. Do people care that the MPs blatantly don't support Corbyn? I think they should, personally, but many people don't.IanB2 said:"Leadership is about bringing people with you" is a brave place for start for Corby!
Will Rudd spot the open goal...?
Caroline talking about pioneering new ways with co-leaders - didn't she get rid of that when she was leader on her own in her first stint, and they've only just returned to the normal Green way.
Overall scores
Corbyn - 7/10 Pretty good, had some good lines, buoyed by his parts of the audience rapturously greeting his statements. Took brief hits earlier on, but that was expected - question is will people like Rudd's rebuttals of him
Rudd - 6/10 Great start, pushing a 'sensible realism' response to concerted attack, but didn't get much opportunity later, a few stumbles
Farron - 5/10 Punchy, got noticed at times, but with Corbyn having a good debate, his impact will be reduced
Robertson - 6/10 Picked his moments, had some effective impacts, but some less effective. Strong opener and finish.
Wood - 3/10 Only really seemed to have an impact vs Nuttal at the end, otherwise invisible.
Nuttal - 4/10- Got some applause lines, took the brunt of attacks at times, and took some laughs.
Lucas - 6/10 She's a good debater, some good moments, but not really sticking out for me. Better than Corbyn, but needed him to do worse to shine more.
Overall impression - early on Rudd held her own, and Corbyn got some blowback from the others too, but in general they focused on Rudd from then on.
Corbyn will be seen as the winner, but Rudd handled herself fine and I think the tories will be relatively happy.
I would give Tim at least a 6. When they wake up tomorrow morning whose lines are people most likely to actually remember?0 -
Well, that was that. 90 minutes of my life I won't get back again.0
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Any evidence she made her do it?Jonathan said:
Cruel of May to make her do it.marke09 said:Sun PoliticsVerified account @SunPolitics
EXCL: Amber Rudd is debating Jeremy Corbyn tonight despite the death of her elderly father just days ago https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3693764/amber-rudd-stands-up-to-debate-jeremy-corbyn-despite-death-of-elderly-father-just-days-before … #BBCDebate0 -
Really do not think the audience was biased, when they were shown it was a relatively small proportion of them wildly excited.0
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No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.0 -
I have to admit, Corbyn is pretty good. I was wrong about him. Yet, my head says the Tories still win big.0
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Farron has the soundbite.0
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Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories
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Farron: "bake off is on next, why not go and make a brew"
Rudd is a class act. Far more impressive than May.0 -
So glad I didn't watch the debate. It would just have pissed me off even more.0
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Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.0 -
Why should he?Cyan said:
Too bad he doesn't say the same about British citizens who sign up for the Israeli armed forces and go and murder Palestinians.RobD said:
The one about not letting Jihadists back in after they've pledged allegiance to ISIS? Yeah, I would bloody hope so!IanB2 said:
Nuttall got a big round of applause on the terrorism question.jonny83 said:If it was balanced UkIP would have got some cheers mentioning the EU, Nuttall got nothing but jeers.
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Maybe her boss could have did it instead ?AndyJS said:
Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 20170 -
Corbyn's. Because Tim's won't get reported much.IanB2 said:
The attack line loses a bit of impact because I suspect Corbyn's standing in his party has risen somewhat.kle4 said:
Got there in the end. I'm surprised the Tories haven't pushed it harder. No response from crowd, who orgasmed at Corbyn's rebuttal. Do people care that the MPs blatantly don't support Corbyn? I think they should, personally, but many people don't.IanB2 said:"Leadership is about bringing people with you" is a brave place for start for Corby!
Will Rudd spot the open goal...?
Caroline talking about pioneering new ways with co-leaders - didn't she get rid of that when she was leader on her own in her first stint, and they've only just returned to the normal Green way.
Overall scores
Corbyn - 7/10 Pretty good, had some good lines, buoyed by his parts of the audience rapturously greeting his statements. Took brief hits earlier on, but that was expected - question is will people like Rudd's rebuttals of him
Rudd - 6/10 Great start, pushing a 'sensible realism' response to concerted attack, but didn't get much opportunity later, a few stumbles
Farron - 5/10 Punchy, got noticed at times, but with Corbyn having a good debate, his impact will be reduced
Robertson - 6/10 Picked his moments, had some effective impacts, but some less effective. Strong opener and finish.
Wood - 3/10 Only really seemed to have an impact vs Nuttal at the end, otherwise invisible.
Nuttal - 4/10- Got some applause lines, took the brunt of attacks at times, and took some laughs.
Lucas - 6/10 She's a good debater, some good moments, but not really sticking out for me. Better than Corbyn, but needed him to do worse to shine more.
Overall impression - early on Rudd held her own, and Corbyn got some blowback from the others too, but in general they focused on Rudd from then on.
Corbyn will be seen as the winner, but Rudd handled herself fine and I think the tories will be relatively happy.
I would give Tim at least a 6. When they wake up tomorrow morning whose lines are people most likely to actually remember?
As for the attack line, perhaps, but if done from the start less so perhaps, and in any case it puts all those MPs on the sport to explain how someone they thought was not up to be LOTO is up to the job of PM, and some would stumble on that.
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Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
Tory Maj
Corbyn doing well enough to survive
UKIP wipeout
Lib Dem flop
?0 -
Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.
No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.0 -
I would say a Party that has missed every single one of their own economic targets are not economically competent myself.The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
A party that promised to clear the deficit by 2015 then 2020 now 2025 is economically illiterate,
But worse than that it has starved its own people. Killed thousands by vile benefit cuts and for what to make the Tory donors richer.0 -
Not even close to McDonnell let loose on the economy. If Brexit worries you economically you would be mad to vote Labour.foxinsoxuk said:Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
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Ehh, from my perspective he can make a better future for the next 10 or so years, by the time the debts are called in I can then be living & working in a different country.The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.0 -
Corbyn is going to get a majority0
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Still seems about right, unless YouGov are the only people smart enough to see the truth that all pollsters and elections to date have missed.Luckyguy1983 said:Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
Tory Maj
Corbyn doing well enough to survive
UKIP wipeout
Lib Dem flop
?0 -
Eww. What silly pathetic creatures.isam said:Only Rudd shook hands w Nuttall. What childish twats the others really are
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I'd still rather that the person behind that not be a Marxist.IanB2 said:
Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
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That's four yeses. All four still happening. (For the second to happen Labour would have to be sub-100 imo.)Luckyguy1983 said:Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
Tory Maj
Corbyn doing well enough to survive
UKIP wipeout
Lib Dem flop
?0 -
That's a horrible tweet / article.old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 2017
I'm all for trashing TM for her cowardice, but not like that.
Irrelevant personal/family/relationship stuff shouldn't be bought into political debate just to score a cheap point.0 -
Yes. He certainly didn't lose anything tonight. He is proving to be much more difficult to deal with than anyone expected.El_Capitano said:Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.
No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.0 -
Surely Rudd will be deputy or Chancellor after the election.0
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Not for me, no. However, the Overton window has moved to the left.Luckyguy1983 said:Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
Tory Maj
Corbyn doing well enough to survive
UKIP wipeout
Lib Dem flop
?0 -
I wonder if the plan was for him to change his mind and come all along, or if the strong polls convinced him. Always argued while there were risks, the rewards were worth coming.El_Capitano said:Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.
No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.0 -
No seems correct to me .I will eat a hat if Labour gets most seats.Luckyguy1983 said:Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
Tory Maj
Corbyn doing well enough to survive
UKIP wipeout
Lib Dem flop
?0 -
Good line by Tim.Oliver said:Farron: "bake off is on next, why not go and make a brew"
Rudd is a class act. Far more impressive than May.
Gone up in my estimation tonight. If it was Kendall vs Tim I would vote LD0 -
Perhaps. No doubt you have family & friends. Will they all be with you in another country?Chameleon said:
Ehh, from my perspective he can make a better future for the next 10 or so years, by the time the debts are called in I can then be living & working in a different country.The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.0 -
Indeed. You are certainly no Tory, or TINO, so I think your view on this is pretty sound. I hope more people than presently indicated, when push comes to shove, agree.The_Apocalypse said:
I'd still rather that the person behind that not be a Marxist.IanB2 said:
Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.0 -
Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.AndyJS said:
Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 20170 -
On a superficial level:
Amber has pretty much earned her choice of gigs in the Jun 9 reshuffle, I'd say (and probably shortened her odds in Next Leader/Next Chancellor markets).
Corbyn hasn't made mistakes... any roll he's on won't have been stopped. And that was more important tonight than on Woman's Hour.
Farron's done himself no harm (though not massively visible).. if there is a Tory wobble he may have saved/put a handful of seats in play. Similar story for Lucas. Though both laid good punches on May for bottling.
Robertson's looked statesmanlike, but irrelevant for 90pc of the electorate. (And Wood an even smaller player, though personally likeable).
Nuttall reminds me of Nick Griffin... puts on a suit and has learned a few long words, but is never going to give his party the veneer of respectability Farage seemed to manage.
I'm left struggling to work out the impact on May. She's massively weakened (within and outside her party) by the no-show, especially after the master-stroke by Corbyn in turning up. But her performance earlier defending that decision makes me think she'd have come across as the non-human in the room and performed way worse than Rudd.
Finally.. Rudd's closing statement and Damian Green in the spin-room feel like pre-prepared lines to take and rather unauthentic. I don't think the Coalition of Chaos lines will stick after 90 minutes where there were no massive screw-ups.
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Oh I agree that the Tories aren't great economically.bigjohnowls said:
I would say a Party that has missed every single one of their own economic targets are not economically competent myself.The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
A party that promised to clear the deficit by 2015 then 2020 now 2025 is economically illiterate,
But worse than that it has starved its own people. Killed thousands by vile benefit cuts and for what to make the Tory donors richer.
But while the Tories are terrible, Labour are absolute shambles, a disaster.
McDonnell's Land Value Tax has already made clear to me that Labour will make it harder to keep your home - either as someone who has a mortgage or a renter. That's hardly moral.0 -
Corbyn's USP is meant to be his honesty and principles. He is not honest. And his principles - give me a fucking break! His principles are to side with illiberals, fascists, Marxists, anti-semites, terrorists, mysogynists, homophobes and those who hate and want to defeat the West then to lie when challenged.murali_s said:
And the Tories don't lie? They have been lying to us over the last 7 years.Cyclefree said:
Yes - if you're shameless to advise your leader to tell bare-faced lies in interviews, you can do well.Pong said:I think Seamus Milne deserves a lot of credit for the strategy he's pursued with Corbyn.
To take someone we all thought was unelectable outside of his base - and turn him into an (almost) viable prime minister took real skill.
A very difficult job, very well done.
Still doesn't change the fact that Corbyn lies - repeatedly.
All political parties lie - it's part of the dirty politics game!
A dishonest illiberal is what he is. And Labour should be hanging their head in shame that this is the person they are putting forward as PM.
He may win. Poor Britain. People - including the young - have been taken in by dishonest and illiberal charlatans before. But it will still be a moral disaster for Britain if he does win and not much less of a moral disaster if he continues to stay in charge of Labour.
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Not much movement in the price of a Tory majority: it has drifted one tick away from the Tories, to 1.21-1.22.0
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Do they have to cut to party MPs and hacks spinning after these things? What's the point,a piece of cardboard with 'My side won' would do the same job.0
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Corbyn was never put under pressure had a soft ride, was the audience representative? If it was the Tories are f****. Whilst the future may be amusing it could all end in tears for most people0
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Miss Aco
You voting Tory?0 -
Farage on LBC calls for BBC sackings because audience and questions so biased.
They have messed up - wonder if they'll concede the point. Difficult for them.0 -
Watched the debate on and off, thought Rudd and Corbyn did OK but will not have changed many minds, Nuttall had a few good lines from the populist right and Farron got in a few key points too, Lucas and Wood had some success bashing the government and Robertson stayed largely above the fray0
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I just somehow think Yougov have done it to give the headline writers what they wanted. There is no such thing as inviolable excellence and credibility any more - we all have to earn a crust.kle4 said:
Still seems about right, unless YouGov are the only people smart enough to see the truth that all pollsters and elections to date have missed.Luckyguy1983 said:Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
Tory Maj
Corbyn doing well enough to survive
UKIP wipeout
Lib Dem flop
?0 -
I thought Rudd did a very good job under extremely difficult circumstances both political and now just revealed personal ones as well.0
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Odds on Rudd as next PM must be falling after that. Submarine May was a terrible choice for leader.0
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Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.0 -
People react in different ways. Like you care.old_labour said:
Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.AndyJS said:
Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 2017
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You said it was 1.22-3 earlier didn't you? I could have sworn...Cyan said:Not much movement in the price of a Tory majority: it has drifted one tick away from the Tories, to 1.21-1.22.
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If Rudd insisted, why shouldn't she do it? She's a grown woman and she can grieve in her own way in her own time, and if she thinks it best she be there as May asked, for the good of the country, I don't think anyone need be criticised for acquiescing.old_labour said:
Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.AndyJS said:
Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 20170 -
Damien Green & Thornberry quite well matched.0
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Corbyn won't shakes hands with UKIP, but he will commemorate the deaths of IRA terrorists. I'm no fan of Nuttall, but I think he is a better person than Corbyn.Luckyguy1983 said:
Eww. What silly pathetic creatures.isam said:Only Rudd shook hands w Nuttall. What childish twats the others really are
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Probably not. I'll probably vote Green as a protest vote. But this is the closest I think I've come to considering it, which I never thought would happen but Corbyn scares me and makes me worry about my, and my family's future.bobajobPB said:Miss Aco
You voting Tory?0 -
Jezza meeting his fans outside. This is feeling a little bit like 1992.0
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Who's to say there isn't a shy Labour vote this time? After all, after the rubbishing Corbyn had from all and sundry, there may be folk who will vote for him but having kept schtumm not to look crazy.Pulpstar said:Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories
Corbyn's gamble probably paid off in attending tonight. He may not have gained too many votes, but he probably shored it up just a bit more. If May doesn't win big, she's going to be very vulnerable. She looks anything but strong and stable now.0 -
Nice bit of canvassing there. Is that how you work for Labour when hitting the door-knockers?Yorkcity said:
Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.0 -
Tim & Amber both 8/10 for me.
Amazing for Amber to come out after her father died yesterday. Full credit to her.0 -
Surprised Nuttall didn't bring up his role in the Apollo programme.0
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1. Corbyn
2. Farron
3. Angus
4. Rudd
5. Lucas
6. Welsh woman
7. Nutjob for me
I was expecting to have Lucas and Welsh woman higher TBH0 -
How difficult is it to understand the difference between using your own assets to spend on yourself to look after yourself when you need care (the Tory proposal) and taking your wealth to spend on others (what Labour will do)?The_Apocalypse said:
I'd still rather that the person behind that not be a Marxist.IanB2 said:
Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
Look at @BJO - one moment howling at the unfairness of the Dementia tax because the Governnment will steal Granny's house and this evening demanding that the wealthy i.e. those with houses be taxed even more than now.
Why is the former "theft" and the latter not?
Oh, I remember now. The latter is being done by Labour and so is OK and the former by Tories and therefore evil.
It's utterly pathetic.
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What earthly business is it of yours, you nasty little man?old_labour said:
Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.AndyJS said:
Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 20170 -
That was what I thought was keeping the Lab score in the mid 20s. I struggle to see how there is a shy Labour vote when they are polling mid to late 30s and, while people do vote differently in locals to GEs, why it was not visible before if it is so shy they could get 40. Just seems implausible.Monksfield said:
Who's to say there isn't a shy Labour vote this time?Pulpstar said:Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories
Corbyn talking to people outside, he's loving this. I get why people like him, although I still don't know why they adore him.0 -
Get a grip. I voted Labour 2015, and Remain last year. Had Corbyn not been in charge, I would have voted Labour this year as well.Yorkcity said:
Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
Do not blame me that the Labour party has put extremists in charge who plan to tax the hilt out of everyone but are not being entirely honest about it.0 -
Nuttall pronounces the eighth letter of the alphabet haitch. That's unforgivable.Harris_Tweed said:On a superficial level:
Amber has pretty much earned her choice of gigs in the Jun 9 reshuffle, I'd say (and probably shortened her odds in Next Leader/Next Chancellor markets).
Corbyn hasn't made mistakes... any roll he's on won't have been stopped. And that was more important tonight than on Woman's Hour.
Farron's done himself no harm (though not massively visible).. if there is a Tory wobble he may have saved/put a handful of seats in play. Similar story for Lucas. Though both laid good punches on May for bottling.
Robertson's looked statesmanlike, but irrelevant for 90pc of the electorate. (And Wood an even smaller player, though personally likeable).
Nuttall reminds me of Nick Griffin... puts on a suit and has learned a few long words, but is never going to give his party the veneer of respectability Farage seemed to manage.
I'm left struggling to work out the impact on May. She's massively weakened (within and outside her party) by the no-show, especially after the master-stroke by Corbyn in turning up. But her performance earlier defending that decision makes me think she'd have come across as the non-human in the room and performed way worse than Rudd.
Finally.. Rudd's closing statement and Damian Green in the spin-room feel like pre-prepared lines to take and rather unauthentic. I don't think the Coalition of Chaos lines will stick after 90 minutes where there were no massive screw-ups.0 -
You're probably right that May would have lost whether present or absent. Not a great position for our Supreme Commander to have got herself into, nevertheless.Harris_Tweed said:On a superficial level:
Amber has pretty much earned her choice of gigs in the Jun 9 reshuffle, I'd say (and probably shortened her odds in Next Leader/Next Chancellor markets).
Corbyn hasn't made mistakes... any roll he's on won't have been stopped. And that was more important tonight than on Woman's Hour.
Farron's done himself no harm (though not massively visible).. if there is a Tory wobble he may have saved/put a handful of seats in play. Similar story for Lucas. Though both laid good punches on May for bottling.
Robertson's looked statesmanlike, but irrelevant for 90pc of the electorate. (And Wood an even smaller player, though personally likeable).
Nuttall reminds me of Nick Griffin... puts on a suit and has learned a few long words, but is never going to give his party the veneer of respectability Farage seemed to manage.
I'm left struggling to work out the impact on May. She's massively weakened (within and outside her party) by the no-show, especially after the master-stroke by Corbyn in turning up. But her performance earlier defending that decision makes me think she'd have come across as the non-human in the room and performed way worse than Rudd.
Finally.. Rudd's closing statement and Damian Green in the spin-room feel like pre-prepared lines to take and rather unauthentic. I don't think the Coalition of Chaos lines will stick after 90 minutes where there were no massive screw-ups.
Their collective weakness - and the one area where Tim was the best of a poor field - was their humourlessness. Tim can at least raise a laugh, and that was the edge that Farage had over Nuttall. Leanne also had her moment.
The closing statements are always pre-prepared and difficult to pull off as if they are natural. Corbyn and Tim did well there, and Lucas's although obvious a script was delivered well.0 -
Not a fan of secret voting?Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.0 -
Maybe Amber Rudd, as a grown woman, decided for herself that she was willing and able to appear in this debate?old_labour said:
Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.AndyJS said:
Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?old_labour said:Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.
Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)
EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
May 31, 2017
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It's basically for the broadcasters and media to enjoy themselves.nielh said:You really have to question the point of these TV debates. What influence will it really have? It is only a small fraction of the population who are going to watch it, of whom many will already have made their mind up about who they are going to vote for anyway. Its boring. And it goes on for 90 minutes.
Portillo has been making the point on This Week recently that the media think general elections are all about them and for their own entertainment... Where-as for politicians it's about securing their election and forming a government.0 -
hE WOULD HAVE GOT A ROCKET FROM THE mODJonathan said:Surprised Nuttall didn't bring up his role in the Apollo programme.
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FFS. May. Is she even human? I don't really rate Rudd but bloody hell. Talk about taking one for the team.
May never fails to find a way to underwhelm.0 -
Well, that is what "redistribution" means, and socialist parties believe in redistribution, and Corbyn is a socialist. I'm not sure why that should be a surprise to anyone.Cyclefree said:How difficult is it to understand the difference between using your own assets to spend on yourself to look after yourself when you need care (the Tory proposal) and taking your wealth to spend on others (what Labour will do)?
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To the hard-left, anyone with a house is a rockfeller whose deserves to be sucked dry by the government and left homeless.MarqueeMark said:
Nice bit of canvassing there. Is that how you work for Labour when hitting the door-knockers?Yorkcity said:
Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.The_Apocalypse said:
No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.foxinsoxuk said:
You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!The_Apocalypse said:
But they aren't.Gallowgate said:
It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.Dadge said:
:-DSeanT said:Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.
Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......
Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.
Get your hypocrisy in check.
You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).
Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.0 -
Wood struggled to get noticed, but she's pitching to far fewer people so getting any airtime nationally is good. Lucas was decent but seemed to fade away for long periods.bigjohnowls said:1. Corbyn
2. Farron
3. Angus
4. Rudd
5. Lucas
6. Welsh woman
7. Nutjob for me
I was expecting to have Lucas and Welsh woman higher TBH0 -
Miss Aco
What is this garden tax you keep mentioning?0 -
Theresa May made the absolutely correct decision to stay away from that momentum rally.0
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El_Capitano said:
Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.
No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.
Easier when the bulk of the audience is crawling up your arse...0 -
Nowadays every election has to have a "break the system" candidate, and he is the closest. That is the story of this campaign in a sentence.kle4 said:
That was what I thought was keeping the Lab score in the mid 20s. I struggle to see how there is a shy Labour vote when they are polling mid to late 30s and, while people do vote differently in locals to GEs, why it was not visible before if it is so shy they could get 40. Just seems implausible.Monksfield said:
Who's to say there isn't a shy Labour vote this time?Pulpstar said:Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories
Corbyn talking to people outside, he's loving this. I get why people like him, although I still don't know why they adore him.0
