Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa’s Tories drop to their lowest level yet on the Commons

16791112

Comments

  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,646

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    Amber Rudd is her own woman. I'm sure she could have taken a time-out if she wanted it. Maybe work is how she is dealing with it?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,531
    Good closer from Tim. Best saved till last from him.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    What are our final rankings? For me:

    1. Corbyn
    2. Rudd
    3. Angus
    4. Nuttal
    5. Farron
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Lucas
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Only Rudd shook hands w Nuttall. What childish twats the others really are
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    marke09 said:

    Sun Politics‏Verified account @SunPolitics

    EXCL: Amber Rudd is debating Jeremy Corbyn tonight despite the death of her elderly father just days ago https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3693764/amber-rudd-stands-up-to-debate-jeremy-corbyn-despite-death-of-elderly-father-just-days-before … #BBCDebate

    Cruel of May to make her do it.
  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307
    You really have to question the point of these TV debates. What influence will it really have? It is only a small fraction of the population who are going to watch it, of whom many will already have made their mind up about who they are going to vote for anyway. Its boring. And it goes on for 90 minutes.
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    jonny83 said:

    If it was balanced UkIP would have got some cheers mentioning the EU, Nuttall got nothing but jeers.

    Nuttall got a big round of applause on the terrorism question.
    The one about not letting Jihadists back in after they've pledged allegiance to ISIS? Yeah, I would bloody hope so!
    Too bad he doesn't say the same about British citizens who sign up for the Israeli armed forces and go and murder Palestinians.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Told to hold applause until end, apparently the audience preferred to not applause at all. Because Rudd was the closer?

    I'll accept it was balanced, but the Tories were very very quiet in there. And Rudd wasn't so bad that they couldn't muster up the energy if they wanted.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    "Leadership is about bringing people with you" is a brave place for start for Corby!

    Will Rudd spot the open goal...?

    Got there in the end. I'm surprised the Tories haven't pushed it harder. No response from crowd, who orgasmed at Corbyn's rebuttal. Do people care that the MPs blatantly don't support Corbyn? I think they should, personally, but many people don't.

    Caroline talking about pioneering new ways with co-leaders - didn't she get rid of that when she was leader on her own in her first stint, and they've only just returned to the normal Green way.

    Overall scores

    Corbyn - 7/10 Pretty good, had some good lines, buoyed by his parts of the audience rapturously greeting his statements. Took brief hits earlier on, but that was expected - question is will people like Rudd's rebuttals of him
    Rudd - 6/10 Great start, pushing a 'sensible realism' response to concerted attack, but didn't get much opportunity later, a few stumbles
    Farron - 5/10 Punchy, got noticed at times, but with Corbyn having a good debate, his impact will be reduced
    Robertson - 6/10 Picked his moments, had some effective impacts, but some less effective. Strong opener and finish.
    Wood - 3/10 Only really seemed to have an impact vs Nuttal at the end, otherwise invisible.
    Nuttal - 4/10- Got some applause lines, took the brunt of attacks at times, and took some laughs.
    Lucas - 6/10 She's a good debater, some good moments, but not really sticking out for me. Better than Corbyn, but needed him to do worse to shine more.

    Overall impression - early on Rudd held her own, and Corbyn got some blowback from the others too, but in general they focused on Rudd from then on.

    Corbyn will be seen as the winner, but Rudd handled herself fine and I think the tories will be relatively happy.
    The attack line loses a bit of impact because I suspect Corbyn's standing in his party has risen somewhat.

    I would give Tim at least a 6. When they wake up tomorrow morning whose lines are people most likely to actually remember?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,021
    Well, that was that. 90 minutes of my life I won't get back again.
  • Really do not think the audience was biased, when they were shown it was a relatively small proportion of them wildly excited.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,145
    Jonathan said:

    marke09 said:

    Sun Politics‏Verified account @SunPolitics

    EXCL: Amber Rudd is debating Jeremy Corbyn tonight despite the death of her elderly father just days ago https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3693764/amber-rudd-stands-up-to-debate-jeremy-corbyn-despite-death-of-elderly-father-just-days-before … #BBCDebate

    Cruel of May to make her do it.
    Any evidence she made her do it?
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    I have to admit, Corbyn is pretty good. I was wrong about him. Yet, my head says the Tories still win big.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    Farron has the soundbite.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,651
    Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories :o
  • OliverOliver Posts: 33
    edited May 2017
    Farron: "bake off is on next, why not go and make a brew" :smile:

    Rudd is a class act. Far more impressive than May.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,225
    So glad I didn't watch the debate. It would just have pissed me off even more.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cyan said:

    RobD said:

    IanB2 said:

    jonny83 said:

    If it was balanced UkIP would have got some cheers mentioning the EU, Nuttall got nothing but jeers.

    Nuttall got a big round of applause on the terrorism question.
    The one about not letting Jihadists back in after they've pledged allegiance to ISIS? Yeah, I would bloody hope so!
    Too bad he doesn't say the same about British citizens who sign up for the Israeli armed forces and go and murder Palestinians.
    Why should he?
  • asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    AndyJS said:

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?
    Maybe her boss could have did it instead ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    "Leadership is about bringing people with you" is a brave place for start for Corby!

    Will Rudd spot the open goal...?

    Got there in the end. I'm surprised the Tories haven't pushed it harder. No response from crowd, who orgasmed at Corbyn's rebuttal. Do people care that the MPs blatantly don't support Corbyn? I think they should, personally, but many people don't.

    Caroline talking about pioneering new ways with co-leaders - didn't she get rid of that when she was leader on her own in her first stint, and they've only just returned to the normal Green way.

    Overall scores

    Corbyn - 7/10 Pretty good, had some good lines, buoyed by his parts of the audience rapturously greeting his statements. Took brief hits earlier on, but that was expected - question is will people like Rudd's rebuttals of him
    Rudd - 6/10 Great start, pushing a 'sensible realism' response to concerted attack, but didn't get much opportunity later, a few stumbles
    Farron - 5/10 Punchy, got noticed at times, but with Corbyn having a good debate, his impact will be reduced
    Robertson - 6/10 Picked his moments, had some effective impacts, but some less effective. Strong opener and finish.
    Wood - 3/10 Only really seemed to have an impact vs Nuttal at the end, otherwise invisible.
    Nuttal - 4/10- Got some applause lines, took the brunt of attacks at times, and took some laughs.
    Lucas - 6/10 She's a good debater, some good moments, but not really sticking out for me. Better than Corbyn, but needed him to do worse to shine more.

    Overall impression - early on Rudd held her own, and Corbyn got some blowback from the others too, but in general they focused on Rudd from then on.

    Corbyn will be seen as the winner, but Rudd handled herself fine and I think the tories will be relatively happy.
    The attack line loses a bit of impact because I suspect Corbyn's standing in his party has risen somewhat.

    I would give Tim at least a 6. When they wake up tomorrow morning whose lines are people most likely to actually remember?
    Corbyn's. Because Tim's won't get reported much.

    As for the attack line, perhaps, but if done from the start less so perhaps, and in any case it puts all those MPs on the sport to explain how someone they thought was not up to be LOTO is up to the job of PM, and some would stumble on that.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,249
    Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
    Tory Maj
    Corbyn doing well enough to survive
    UKIP wipeout
    Lib Dem flop

    ?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.

    No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    I would say a Party that has missed every single one of their own economic targets are not economically competent myself.

    A party that promised to clear the deficit by 2015 then 2020 now 2025 is economically illiterate,

    But worse than that it has starved its own people. Killed thousands by vile benefit cuts and for what to make the Tory donors richer.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,010

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.

    Not even close to McDonnell let loose on the economy. If Brexit worries you economically you would be mad to vote Labour.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    Ehh, from my perspective he can make a better future for the next 10 or so years, by the time the debts are called in I can then be living & working in a different country.
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    Corbyn is going to get a majority
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
    Tory Maj
    Corbyn doing well enough to survive
    UKIP wipeout
    Lib Dem flop

    ?

    Still seems about right, unless YouGov are the only people smart enough to see the truth that all pollsters and elections to date have missed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,249
    isam said:

    Only Rudd shook hands w Nuttall. What childish twats the others really are

    Eww. What silly pathetic creatures.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    IanB2 said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.
    I'd still rather that the person behind that not be a Marxist.

  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
    Tory Maj
    Corbyn doing well enough to survive
    UKIP wipeout
    Lib Dem flop

    ?

    That's four yeses. All four still happening. (For the second to happen Labour would have to be sub-100 imo.)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,531

    Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.

    No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.

    Yes. He certainly didn't lose anything tonight. He is proving to be much more difficult to deal with than anyone expected.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited May 2017

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    That's a horrible tweet / article.

    I'm all for trashing TM for her cowardice, but not like that.

    Irrelevant personal/family/relationship stuff shouldn't be bought into political debate just to score a cheap point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,651
    Surely Rudd will be deputy or Chancellor after the election.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    chloe said:

    Corbyn is going to get a majority

    I'm probably voting for him this election, but there's absolutely no way thats happening.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,531

    Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
    Tory Maj
    Corbyn doing well enough to survive
    UKIP wipeout
    Lib Dem flop

    ?

    Not for me, no. However, the Overton window has moved to the left.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.

    No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.

    I wonder if the plan was for him to change his mind and come all along, or if the strong polls convinced him. Always argued while there were risks, the rewards were worth coming.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,292
    chloe said:

    Corbyn is going to get a majority

    You can get 24-1 on Betfair if you're confident.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
    Tory Maj
    Corbyn doing well enough to survive
    UKIP wipeout
    Lib Dem flop

    ?

    No seems correct to me .I will eat a hat if Labour gets most seats.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    Oliver said:

    Farron: "bake off is on next, why not go and make a brew" :smile:

    Rudd is a class act. Far more impressive than May.

    Good line by Tim.

    Gone up in my estimation tonight. If it was Kendall vs Tim I would vote LD
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited May 2017
    Chameleon said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    Ehh, from my perspective he can make a better future for the next 10 or so years, by the time the debts are called in I can then be living & working in a different country.
    Perhaps. No doubt you have family & friends. Will they all be with you in another country?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    IanB2 said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.
    I'd still rather that the person behind that not be a Marxist.

    Indeed. You are certainly no Tory, or TINO, so I think your view on this is pretty sound. I hope more people than presently indicated, when push comes to shove, agree.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    AndyJS said:

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?
    Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.
  • Harris_TweedHarris_Tweed Posts: 1,337
    On a superficial level:

    Amber has pretty much earned her choice of gigs in the Jun 9 reshuffle, I'd say (and probably shortened her odds in Next Leader/Next Chancellor markets).

    Corbyn hasn't made mistakes... any roll he's on won't have been stopped. And that was more important tonight than on Woman's Hour.

    Farron's done himself no harm (though not massively visible).. if there is a Tory wobble he may have saved/put a handful of seats in play. Similar story for Lucas. Though both laid good punches on May for bottling.

    Robertson's looked statesmanlike, but irrelevant for 90pc of the electorate. (And Wood an even smaller player, though personally likeable).

    Nuttall reminds me of Nick Griffin... puts on a suit and has learned a few long words, but is never going to give his party the veneer of respectability Farage seemed to manage.

    I'm left struggling to work out the impact on May. She's massively weakened (within and outside her party) by the no-show, especially after the master-stroke by Corbyn in turning up. But her performance earlier defending that decision makes me think she'd have come across as the non-human in the room and performed way worse than Rudd.

    Finally.. Rudd's closing statement and Damian Green in the spin-room feel like pre-prepared lines to take and rather unauthentic. I don't think the Coalition of Chaos lines will stick after 90 minutes where there were no massive screw-ups.



  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    chloe said:

    Corbyn is going to get a majority

    In Islington ....
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    I would say a Party that has missed every single one of their own economic targets are not economically competent myself.

    A party that promised to clear the deficit by 2015 then 2020 now 2025 is economically illiterate,

    But worse than that it has starved its own people. Killed thousands by vile benefit cuts and for what to make the Tory donors richer.
    Oh I agree that the Tories aren't great economically.

    But while the Tories are terrible, Labour are absolute shambles, a disaster.

    McDonnell's Land Value Tax has already made clear to me that Labour will make it harder to keep your home - either as someone who has a mortgage or a renter. That's hardly moral.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,490
    murali_s said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    I think Seamus Milne deserves a lot of credit for the strategy he's pursued with Corbyn.

    To take someone we all thought was unelectable outside of his base - and turn him into an (almost) viable prime minister took real skill.

    A very difficult job, very well done.

    Yes - if you're shameless to advise your leader to tell bare-faced lies in interviews, you can do well.

    Still doesn't change the fact that Corbyn lies - repeatedly.

    And the Tories don't lie? They have been lying to us over the last 7 years.

    All political parties lie - it's part of the dirty politics game!
    Corbyn's USP is meant to be his honesty and principles. He is not honest. And his principles - give me a fucking break! His principles are to side with illiberals, fascists, Marxists, anti-semites, terrorists, mysogynists, homophobes and those who hate and want to defeat the West then to lie when challenged.

    A dishonest illiberal is what he is. And Labour should be hanging their head in shame that this is the person they are putting forward as PM.

    He may win. Poor Britain. People - including the young - have been taken in by dishonest and illiberal charlatans before. But it will still be a moral disaster for Britain if he does win and not much less of a moral disaster if he continues to stay in charge of Labour.

  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Not much movement in the price of a Tory majority: it has drifted one tick away from the Tories, to 1.21-1.22.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Chameleon said:

    What are our final rankings? For me:

    1. Corbyn
    2. Rudd
    3. Angus
    4. Nuttal
    5. Farron
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Lucas

    I'm no fan of hers, but a tad patronising to Ms Wood and her compatriots there?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Do they have to cut to party MPs and hacks spinning after these things? What's the point,a piece of cardboard with 'My side won' would do the same job.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Corbyn was never put under pressure had a soft ride, was the audience representative? If it was the Tories are f****. Whilst the future may be amusing it could all end in tears for most people
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Miss Aco

    You voting Tory?
  • BlueberryBlueberry Posts: 408
    Farage on LBC calls for BBC sackings because audience and questions so biased.

    They have messed up - wonder if they'll concede the point. Difficult for them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,688
    edited May 2017
    Watched the debate on and off, thought Rudd and Corbyn did OK but will not have changed many minds, Nuttall had a few good lines from the populist right and Farron got in a few key points too, Lucas and Wood had some success bashing the government and Robertson stayed largely above the fray
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,249
    kle4 said:

    Has anything actually happened to make us think this won't be:
    Tory Maj
    Corbyn doing well enough to survive
    UKIP wipeout
    Lib Dem flop

    ?

    Still seems about right, unless YouGov are the only people smart enough to see the truth that all pollsters and elections to date have missed.
    I just somehow think Yougov have done it to give the headline writers what they wanted. There is no such thing as inviolable excellence and credibility any more - we all have to earn a crust.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    I thought Rudd did a very good job under extremely difficult circumstances both political and now just revealed personal ones as well.
  • OliverOliver Posts: 33
    Odds on Rudd as next PM must be falling after that. Submarine May was a terrible choice for leader.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    AndyJS said:

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?
    Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.
    People react in different ways. Like you care.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Cyan said:

    Not much movement in the price of a Tory majority: it has drifted one tick away from the Tories, to 1.21-1.22.

    You said it was 1.22-3 earlier didn't you? I could have sworn...
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Chameleon said:

    What are our final rankings? For me:

    1. Corbyn
    2. Rudd
    3. Angus
    4. Nuttal
    5. Farron
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Lucas

    Why can't anyone remember Leanne Wood's name?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    AndyJS said:

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?
    Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.
    If Rudd insisted, why shouldn't she do it? She's a grown woman and she can grieve in her own way in her own time, and if she thinks it best she be there as May asked, for the good of the country, I don't think anyone need be criticised for acquiescing.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,010

    isam said:

    Only Rudd shook hands w Nuttall. What childish twats the others really are

    Eww. What silly pathetic creatures.
    Corbyn won't shakes hands with UKIP, but he will commemorate the deaths of IRA terrorists. I'm no fan of Nuttall, but I think he is a better person than Corbyn.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,651
    Damien Green & Thornberry quite well matched.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    bobajobPB said:

    Miss Aco

    You voting Tory?

    Probably not. I'll probably vote Green as a protest vote. But this is the closest I think I've come to considering it, which I never thought would happen but Corbyn scares me and makes me worry about my, and my family's future.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,292
    Jezza meeting his fans outside. This is feeling a little bit like 1992.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,838
    edited May 2017
    Pulpstar said:

    Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories :o

    Who's to say there isn't a shy Labour vote this time? After all, after the rubbishing Corbyn had from all and sundry, there may be folk who will vote for him but having kept schtumm not to look crazy.

    Corbyn's gamble probably paid off in attending tonight. He may not have gained too many votes, but he probably shored it up just a bit more. If May doesn't win big, she's going to be very vulnerable. She looks anything but strong and stable now.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    jonny83 said:

    I thought Rudd did a very good job under extremely difficult circumstances both political and now just revealed personal ones as well.

    Yes I agree she looks more at ease than May .
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,263
    Yorkcity said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.
    Nice bit of canvassing there. Is that how you work for Labour when hitting the door-knockers?
  • CyanCyan Posts: 1,262
    Chameleon said:

    What are our final rankings? For me:

    1. Corbyn
    2. Rudd
    3. Angus
    4. Nuttal
    5. Farron
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Lucas

    1 Corbyn
    2 Farron
    3 Nuttall
    4 Rudd
    5 Robertson
    6 Lucas
    7 Wood
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    tlg86 said:

    Jezza meeting his fans outside. This is feeling a little bit like 1992.

    I'd settle for only a 1992-size majority, tbh.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    DavidL said:

    So glad I didn't watch the debate. It would just have pissed me off even more.

    Watched a few minutes because Mrs Jayfdee wanted to. Not very illuminating, all shouting from all sides, have to say though, who is going to vote for a Gobby Scouser like Nuttall.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,783
    bobajobPB said:

    Chameleon said:

    What are our final rankings? For me:

    1. Corbyn
    2. Rudd
    3. Angus
    4. Nuttal
    5. Farron
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Lucas

    Why can't anyone remember Leanne Wood's name?
    Who's Leanne Wood?
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,292
    Danny565 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Jezza meeting his fans outside. This is feeling a little bit like 1992.

    I'd settle for only a 1992-size majority, tbh.
    So would May probably!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,651
    Tim & Amber both 8/10 for me.

    Amazing for Amber to come out after her father died yesterday. Full credit to her.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    1. Corbyn
    2. Farron
    3. Angus
    4. Rudd
    5. Lucas
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Nutjob for me

    I was expecting to have Lucas and Welsh woman higher TBH
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    Surprised Nuttall didn't bring up his role in the Apollo programme.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,490

    IanB2 said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Government is coming for a slice of property equity whatever. The Tories have already given that game away.
    I'd still rather that the person behind that not be a Marxist.

    How difficult is it to understand the difference between using your own assets to spend on yourself to look after yourself when you need care (the Tory proposal) and taking your wealth to spend on others (what Labour will do)?

    Look at @BJO - one moment howling at the unfairness of the Dementia tax because the Governnment will steal Granny's house and this evening demanding that the wealthy i.e. those with houses be taxed even more than now.

    Why is the former "theft" and the latter not?

    Oh, I remember now. The latter is being done by Labour and so is OK and the former by Tories and therefore evil.

    It's utterly pathetic.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    AndyJS said:

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?
    Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.
    What earthly business is it of yours, you nasty little man?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    Pulpstar said:

    Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories :o

    Who's to say there isn't a shy Labour vote this time?
    That was what I thought was keeping the Lab score in the mid 20s. I struggle to see how there is a shy Labour vote when they are polling mid to late 30s and, while people do vote differently in locals to GEs, why it was not visible before if it is so shy they could get 40. Just seems implausible.

    Corbyn talking to people outside, he's loving this. I get why people like him, although I still don't know why they adore him.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Yorkcity said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.
    Get a grip. I voted Labour 2015, and Remain last year. Had Corbyn not been in charge, I would have voted Labour this year as well.

    Do not blame me that the Labour party has put extremists in charge who plan to tax the hilt out of everyone but are not being entirely honest about it.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042

    On a superficial level:

    Amber has pretty much earned her choice of gigs in the Jun 9 reshuffle, I'd say (and probably shortened her odds in Next Leader/Next Chancellor markets).

    Corbyn hasn't made mistakes... any roll he's on won't have been stopped. And that was more important tonight than on Woman's Hour.

    Farron's done himself no harm (though not massively visible).. if there is a Tory wobble he may have saved/put a handful of seats in play. Similar story for Lucas. Though both laid good punches on May for bottling.

    Robertson's looked statesmanlike, but irrelevant for 90pc of the electorate. (And Wood an even smaller player, though personally likeable).

    Nuttall reminds me of Nick Griffin... puts on a suit and has learned a few long words, but is never going to give his party the veneer of respectability Farage seemed to manage.

    I'm left struggling to work out the impact on May. She's massively weakened (within and outside her party) by the no-show, especially after the master-stroke by Corbyn in turning up. But her performance earlier defending that decision makes me think she'd have come across as the non-human in the room and performed way worse than Rudd.

    Finally.. Rudd's closing statement and Damian Green in the spin-room feel like pre-prepared lines to take and rather unauthentic. I don't think the Coalition of Chaos lines will stick after 90 minutes where there were no massive screw-ups.



    Nuttall pronounces the eighth letter of the alphabet haitch. That's unforgivable.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    edited May 2017

    On a superficial level:

    Amber has pretty much earned her choice of gigs in the Jun 9 reshuffle, I'd say (and probably shortened her odds in Next Leader/Next Chancellor markets).

    Corbyn hasn't made mistakes... any roll he's on won't have been stopped. And that was more important tonight than on Woman's Hour.

    Farron's done himself no harm (though not massively visible).. if there is a Tory wobble he may have saved/put a handful of seats in play. Similar story for Lucas. Though both laid good punches on May for bottling.

    Robertson's looked statesmanlike, but irrelevant for 90pc of the electorate. (And Wood an even smaller player, though personally likeable).

    Nuttall reminds me of Nick Griffin... puts on a suit and has learned a few long words, but is never going to give his party the veneer of respectability Farage seemed to manage.

    I'm left struggling to work out the impact on May. She's massively weakened (within and outside her party) by the no-show, especially after the master-stroke by Corbyn in turning up. But her performance earlier defending that decision makes me think she'd have come across as the non-human in the room and performed way worse than Rudd.

    Finally.. Rudd's closing statement and Damian Green in the spin-room feel like pre-prepared lines to take and rather unauthentic. I don't think the Coalition of Chaos lines will stick after 90 minutes where there were no massive screw-ups.



    You're probably right that May would have lost whether present or absent. Not a great position for our Supreme Commander to have got herself into, nevertheless.

    Their collective weakness - and the one area where Tim was the best of a poor field - was their humourlessness. Tim can at least raise a laugh, and that was the edge that Farage had over Nuttall. Leanne also had her moment.

    The closing statements are always pre-prepared and difficult to pull off as if they are natural. Corbyn and Tim did well there, and Lucas's although obvious a script was delivered well.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited May 2017
    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    Not a fan of secret voting?
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    AndyJS said:

    Disgusting of Theresa May to hide from the debate at Cambridge after this happened.

    Matt Dathan (@matt_dathan)

    EXCL by @ByLynnDavidson: Amber Rudd's father died on Monday but it didn't stop her taking part in tonight's debate: https://t.co/ckDllvnAgZ
    May 31, 2017

    Isn't it for Amber Rudd to decide what she does or doesn't want to do?
    Theresa May could have insisted that Amber Rudd be given time to grieve, but she didn't.
    Maybe Amber Rudd, as a grown woman, decided for herself that she was willing and able to appear in this debate?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,448
    nielh said:

    You really have to question the point of these TV debates. What influence will it really have? It is only a small fraction of the population who are going to watch it, of whom many will already have made their mind up about who they are going to vote for anyway. Its boring. And it goes on for 90 minutes.

    It's basically for the broadcasters and media to enjoy themselves.

    Portillo has been making the point on This Week recently that the media think general elections are all about them and for their own entertainment... Where-as for politicians it's about securing their election and forming a government.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,761
    Jonathan said:

    Surprised Nuttall didn't bring up his role in the Apollo programme.

    hE WOULD HAVE GOT A ROCKET FROM THE mOD
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Jonathan said:

    Surprised Nuttall didn't bring up his role in the Apollo programme.

    He doesn't like to brag, naturally. It's that humility that earned him a sainthood.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,225
    FFS. May. Is she even human? I don't really rate Rudd but bloody hell. Talk about taking one for the team.

    May never fails to find a way to underwhelm.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    Cyclefree said:

    How difficult is it to understand the difference between using your own assets to spend on yourself to look after yourself when you need care (the Tory proposal) and taking your wealth to spend on others (what Labour will do)?

    Well, that is what "redistribution" means, and socialist parties believe in redistribution, and Corbyn is a socialist. I'm not sure why that should be a surprise to anyone.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Jonathan said:

    Surprised Nuttall didn't bring up his role in the Apollo programme.

    Fuck me do you honestly think that's still funny?!
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Yorkcity said:

    Dadge said:

    SeanT said:

    Fucking outrageous audience. Totally gamed by activists.

    Cancel the fucking Licence Fee. Grrrr.......

    :-D

    Corbyn hasn't been that good really, but the 35% of the audience who support him have definitely done him a favour. The silence of the Tories in the audience speaks volumes. They're cowards - they silently sit on their hands and then they go into the polling station and vote to protect their interests.
    It's not cowardice. It's confidence in one's own views.
    It's not like Labour party supporters aren't voting for their own interests too.

    Get your hypocrisy in check.
    But they aren't.

    You can't say you're voting for a 'better future' and then vote for people who will crash the economy (Labour).

    Economically incompetent people cannot deliver a better future especially for the most vulnerable in society that many Corbynistas speak of wanting to protect.
    You have been hanging round with the PB tories too long!

    Hard Brexit is the most damaging economic policy possible.
    No, I just don't want to see that Garden Tax and have a situation where my parents go into negative equity on their mortgage.

    Corbyn will likely give us a Hard Brexit anyway, given how terrible he is likely to be as a negotiator. We are f*cked either way, but we will probably be less f*cked with Hammond/Rudd as Chancellor than McDonnell.
    Put you cross in the Tory box , do not bullshit us you were going to do anything else.
    Nice bit of canvassing there. Is that how you work for Labour when hitting the door-knockers?
    To the hard-left, anyone with a house is a rockfeller whose deserves to be sucked dry by the government and left homeless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830

    1. Corbyn
    2. Farron
    3. Angus
    4. Rudd
    5. Lucas
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Nutjob for me

    I was expecting to have Lucas and Welsh woman higher TBH

    Wood struggled to get noticed, but she's pitching to far fewer people so getting any airtime nationally is good. Lucas was decent but seemed to fade away for long periods.
  • bobajobPBbobajobPB Posts: 1,042
    Miss Aco
    What is this garden tax you keep mentioning?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,768
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Surprised Nuttall didn't bring up his role in the Apollo programme.

    He doesn't like to brag, naturally. It's that humility that earned him a sainthood.
    His godfather Frank Sinatra would be proud.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,295
    Theresa May made the absolutely correct decision to stay away from that momentum rally.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,263

    Absolutely the right decision by Corbyn to turn up, I think.

    No-one landed a strong blow on him: he looked normal and coherent, not the bogeyman that he's usually painted as (often with reason). There'll be no Corbyngasm tonight, but that will firm up a lot of wavering votes and perhaps swing a few more Labour's way in marginals.


    Easier when the bulk of the audience is crawling up your arse...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,289
    edited May 2017
    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Amber Rudd big appeal to SHY Tories :o

    Who's to say there isn't a shy Labour vote this time?
    That was what I thought was keeping the Lab score in the mid 20s. I struggle to see how there is a shy Labour vote when they are polling mid to late 30s and, while people do vote differently in locals to GEs, why it was not visible before if it is so shy they could get 40. Just seems implausible.

    Corbyn talking to people outside, he's loving this. I get why people like him, although I still don't know why they adore him.
    Nowadays every election has to have a "break the system" candidate, and he is the closest. That is the story of this campaign in a sentence.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,830
    Cyan said:

    Chameleon said:

    What are our final rankings? For me:

    1. Corbyn
    2. Rudd
    3. Angus
    4. Nuttal
    5. Farron
    6. Welsh woman
    7. Lucas

    1 Corbyn
    2 Farron
    3 Nuttall
    4 Rudd
    5 Robertson
    6 Lucas
    7 Wood
    Thinking on it anew

    1 Corbyn
    2 Rudd
    3 Robertson
    4 Lucas/Farron
    5 Nuttal
    6 Wood
This discussion has been closed.