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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Opinium sees the Tory lead up 10% in a week to 19%. Labour are

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  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,215
    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    J don't want to sound cynical but have not Opinium just looked at other pollsters and decided they had better move theirs more into line but thought they would look a bit better if they still kept them at the extreme ends of the other pollsters figures .

    It is interesting that there was a sudden pre=announcement jump from the other pollsters, and now Opinium has had a post announcement jump.
    tlg86 said:

    Do you think they've changed the rules on this since last June? I do wonder why someone who's lived here for 25 years hasn't applied for British citizenship - did they not want to vote in our elections?
    It's not a requirement that people make such a firm choice. The facts will be very interesting, as it seems a strange decision, but headlines/initial reports on these things so often turn out to be more complicated.
    I don't know much about the process, but an American I was at uni with was able to do it successfully not so long ago.
    One thing that people don't realise is that the paperwork requirements are savage - one thing missed out or out of place - FAIL.

    This is what non EU workers have faced for years.
  • Options
    Sean_F said:

    Welcome back, Mr. Wiggs.

    Mr. Richard, hmm. Perhaps -80 could be considered Battle of the Allia? (Got to admit, I'm a bit weaker on the earlier stuff).

    How about the Sack of Rome or Fall of Constantnople?
    In the morning, I'm compare a Labour shellacking to The Battle of Zama, the defeat that ultimately helped contribute to the wipeout of Carthage, all because they were led by a rubbish general.

    In this instance Labour decided to salt their own ground.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Anthony Wells:

    Like the YouGov and ICM polls in the week, UKIP’s vote has fallen sharply to the benefit of the Conservative party. With all three polls conducted since Theresa May’s announcement showing this same pattern I think we can be confident it’s a real trend. On the face of it a significant number of people who were saying they’d vote UKIP when asked about a hypothetical election appear to be saying they’d vote Conservative now there is an actual election just seven weeks away.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9837
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Betting question team -

    I put £5 e/w 1/5th the odds on a horse on the Betfair Exchange odds of Decimal 13.

    The horse was placed. They paid out £7 profit plus returned my stake.

    I think they should have paid out £12 profit plus returned my stake.

    My calcs:

    13 = 12/1
    12/1 x 1/5th the odds = 2.4
    Therefore they should have paid me (2.4 x £5) + £5 = £17.

    Instead they paid me ([2.4-1] x £5) +£5 = £12.

    Surely can't be right? Or can it?

    Edit: if wrong, has Betfair been systematically doing this since they started offering e/w betting?

    Topping for me on any normal betting you would get 12/5 a place and so return of £17.
    It seems for all the world like it to me but perhaps I am missing something. I am going to write to them (and trust me not just customer support - I was thinking more investor relations) to ask about it!!
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838

    Anthony Wells:

    Like the YouGov and ICM polls in the week, UKIP’s vote has fallen sharply to the benefit of the Conservative party. With all three polls conducted since Theresa May’s announcement showing this same pattern I think we can be confident it’s a real trend. On the face of it a significant number of people who were saying they’d vote UKIP when asked about a hypothetical election appear to be saying they’d vote Conservative now there is an actual election just seven weeks away.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9837

    And how many more will shift when they realise (maybe even on the day) that there's no UKIP candidate on their ballot paper?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,956

    Anthony Wells:

    Like the YouGov and ICM polls in the week, UKIP’s vote has fallen sharply to the benefit of the Conservative party. With all three polls conducted since Theresa May’s announcement showing this same pattern I think we can be confident it’s a real trend. On the face of it a significant number of people who were saying they’d vote UKIP when asked about a hypothetical election appear to be saying they’d vote Conservative now there is an actual election just seven weeks away.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9837

    Tory ceiling at 54%? :p
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122

    Anthony Wells:

    Like the YouGov and ICM polls in the week, UKIP’s vote has fallen sharply to the benefit of the Conservative party. With all three polls conducted since Theresa May’s announcement showing this same pattern I think we can be confident it’s a real trend. On the face of it a significant number of people who were saying they’d vote UKIP when asked about a hypothetical election appear to be saying they’d vote Conservative now there is an actual election just seven weeks away.

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9837

    It's , it's almost like that 4m votes that that bloke keeps banging on about are proving really significant.
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    MrsB said:

    Mrs B, but no-one quite knows the fate of the Ninth Legion...

    except they disappeared.....
    Just like the LibDems.

    Only 8 of them staggered out of the desolation, covered in blood.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited April 2017

    Do we have a schedule for the French first round results?

    Exit polls at 7pm UK time tomorrow, results from then on
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,215

    PBers may recall I made a list of Roman emperors to compare Cameron to based on his election result in 2015 (before it was known, of course). He ended up, due to shock majority, as Trajan, I think.

    This time, I've put together a list of Roman battlefield batterings for Labour. In order of most terrible to least, preceded by seat changes:

    -70 Cannae
    -60 Arausio
    -50 Teutoberg Forest
    -40 Carrhae
    -30 Lake Trasimene

    If it's not too bad:
    -20 Asculum
    -10 Heraclea

    And, if Labour actually increase their seat numbers:
    +10 Zela
    +20 Tigranocerta
    +30 Zama

    -80 Battle Of Cap Bon?
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    DavidL said:

    calum said:
    Moray is well beyond the Scottish Tories, at least this time. In the longer run as the SNP get more comfortable in SLAB's old central belt, left wing and centralising slippers the North East will turn their back on them but not yet. Reduced majority but comfortable.
    It's a scalp too far - also voters tend to like having a prominent MP represent them, and with all due respect to the Tory candidate, he'll not be in that position for a while....
    Also seen my seat, Stirling , appearing on Tory target lists - Michael Forsyth's old seat - again scalp too far - 4th May should give an indication though.
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    ChrisChris Posts: 11,097
    MrsB said:


    Tim Farron as Peter - thought of as just a kid to start with but becomes a mighty warrior

    Surely more like Reepicheep the valiant mouse?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,897
    Quincel said:

    Picking over my outstanding bets, I've got a tenner on "Yougov to show Labour leading by 2018" at 5/1. Though I'd rather have the tenner back, at least the snap election raises the prospect of a new Labour leader before then who only needs a short honeymoon period for me to win...

    The June election has vastly improved that bet I think.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. HYUFD, thanks.

    Mr. Eagles, Hannibal marauded around Italy for over a decade. Corbyn's done nothing comparable.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited April 2017

    DavidL said:

    calum said:
    Moray is well beyond the Scottish Tories, at least this time. In the longer run as the SNP get more comfortable in SLAB's old central belt, left wing and centralising slippers the North East will turn their back on them but not yet. Reduced majority but comfortable.
    It's a scalp too far - also voters tend to like having a prominent MP represent them, and with all due respect to the Tory candidate, he'll not be in that position for a while....
    On this poll the Tories would take Moray and it would be Unionist tactical voting that would take them over the line, 49.9% of Moray voters voted Leave in 2016 and 58% No in 2014, on paper it could see the biggest SNP to Tory swing in Scotland. The Tory candidate trying to oust Angus Robertson is a local MSP
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,956

    Mr. HYUFD, thanks.

    Mr. Eagles, Hannibal marauded around Italy for over a decade. Corbyn's done nothing comparable.

    Corbynism sweeps the nation, it doesn't maraud the nation. :smiley:
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,789
    MrsB said:

    Idle thoughts - comparing this election with the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

    Mrs May obviously the witch
    Tim Farron as Peter - thought of as just a kid to start with but becomes a mighty warrior

    Problem is Jezza. He would be Aslan I suppose. I can see him going willingly to the table to be sacrificed. Problem is, can't see him coming to life again afterwards.....

    Jezza is Puzzle the Donkey.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Since 2015 general election SNP -7%, Tories + 17%, Labour -10%, LDs (unchanged). Tories would win 10 seats from the SNP including Moray where they would oust SNP Westminster leader Angus Robertson (albeit it is a subsample), LDs would take 2 SNP seats
    LOL, as if idiots dream
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    edited April 2017
    Mr. Malmesbury, can add it as -90, already added Allia as -80.

    Edited extra bit: must say, I don't think Labour will fall that far.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    PBers may recall I made a list of Roman emperors to compare Cameron to based on his election result in 2015 (before it was known, of course). He ended up, due to shock majority, as Trajan, I think.

    This time, I've put together a list of Roman battlefield batterings for Labour. In order of most terrible to least, preceded by seat changes:

    -70 Cannae
    -60 Arausio
    -50 Teutoberg Forest
    -40 Carrhae
    -30 Lake Trasimene

    If it's not too bad:
    -20 Asculum
    -10 Heraclea

    And, if Labour actually increase their seat numbers:
    +10 Zela
    +20 Tigranocerta
    +30 Zama

    There is a reason I love PB, its for posts like that! Thank you so much.

    I see this election as being somewhere between Carrhae and Teutoberg forest.

    Now that's a sentence I never thought I would type
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    calum said:
    Moray is well beyond the Scottish Tories, at least this time. In the longer run as the SNP get more comfortable in SLAB's old central belt, left wing and centralising slippers the North East will turn their back on them but not yet. Reduced majority but comfortable.
    It's a scalp too far - also voters tend to like having a prominent MP represent them, and with all due respect to the Tory candidate, he'll not be in that position for a while....
    On this poll the Tories would take Moray and it would Unionist tactical voting that would take them over the line
    Its not a poll, it's a subsample and too good to be true.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618
    Scott_P said:
    Subsamples are the best. It must be weird for the SNP, since I believe they support PR, to be able to dominate Scotland at Westminster even if they were to go to 43%.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    J don't want to sound cynical but have not Opinium just looked at other pollsters and decided they had better move theirs more into line but thought they would look a bit better if they still kept them at the extreme ends of the other pollsters figures .

    It is interesting that there was a sudden pre=announcement jump from the other pollsters, and now Opinium has had a post announcement jump.
    tlg86 said:

    Do you think they've changed the rules on this since last June? I do wonder why someone who's lived here for 25 years hasn't applied for British citizenship - did they not want to vote in our elections?
    It's not a requirement that people make such a firm choice. The facts will be very interesting, as it seems a strange decision, but headlines/initial reports on these things so often turn out to be more complicated.
    I don't know much about the process, but an American I was at uni with was able to do it successfully not so long ago.
    One thing that people don't realise is that the paperwork requirements are savage - one thing missed out or out of place - FAIL.

    This is what non EU workers have faced for years.
    Is this why none ever come - oh...
  • Options

    Mr. HYUFD, thanks.

    Mr. Eagles, Hannibal marauded around Italy for over a decade. Corbyn's done nothing comparable.

    He's marauded across the Labour party for two years, sabotaged Remain to help Leave win and topple Cameron.

    That's even more impressive than marauding across Italy for a decade.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122
    BigRich said:

    PBers may recall I made a list of Roman emperors to compare Cameron to based on his election result in 2015 (before it was known, of course). He ended up, due to shock majority, as Trajan, I think.

    This time, I've put together a list of Roman battlefield batterings for Labour. In order of most terrible to least, preceded by seat changes:

    -70 Cannae
    -60 Arausio
    -50 Teutoberg Forest
    -40 Carrhae
    -30 Lake Trasimene

    If it's not too bad:
    -20 Asculum
    -10 Heraclea

    And, if Labour actually increase their seat numbers:
    +10 Zela
    +20 Tigranocerta
    +30 Zama

    There is a reason I love PB, its for posts like that! Thank you so much.

    I see this election as being somewhere between Carrhae and Teutoberg forest.

    Now that's a sentence I never thought I would type
    LOL, it's looking worse than that for Labour though.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. Eagles, in that time, Hannibal faced Cornelius Scipio, Sempronius, Flaminius, Varro, Paullus, Marcellus, Nero and Quintus Fabius Maximus. None defeated him.

    Corbyn has faced Owen Smith.

    Mr. Rich (and others), thanks :)

    It makes procrastinating from work worthwhile ;)
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    calumcalum Posts: 3,046

    Mr. HYUFD, thanks.

    Mr. Eagles, Hannibal marauded around Italy for over a decade. Corbyn's done nothing comparable.

    He's marauded across the Labour party for two years, sabotaged Remain to help Leave win and topple Cameron.

    That's even more impressive than marauding across Italy for a decade.
    I think Corbyn sees himself more as a modern day Spartacus !!
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    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Subsamples are the best. It must be weird for the SNP, since I believe they support PR, to be able to dominate Scotland at Westminster even if they were to go to 43%.
    Why should it be weird?

    Parties privately support the system that gives them the best result. They'll publicly support the system that makes them look most virtuous. Those two things may not coincide.
  • Options
    I've come up with a new term than saying Labour are going to get pounded like a dockside hooker.

    It's not for the faint of heart or those eating.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,122

    Mr. HYUFD, thanks.

    Mr. Eagles, Hannibal marauded around Italy for over a decade. Corbyn's done nothing comparable.

    He's marauded across the Labour party for two years, sabotaged Remain to help Leave win and topple Cameron.

    That's even more impressive than marauding across Italy for a decade.
    And he's won emphatic if ultimately pointless victories in that time too.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618
    BigRich said:

    PBers may recall I made a list of Roman emperors to compare Cameron to based on his election result in 2015 (before it was known, of course). He ended up, due to shock majority, as Trajan, I think.

    This time, I've put together a list of Roman battlefield batterings for Labour. In order of most terrible to least, preceded by seat changes:

    -70 Cannae
    -60 Arausio
    -50 Teutoberg Forest
    -40 Carrhae
    -30 Lake Trasimene

    If it's not too bad:
    -20 Asculum
    -10 Heraclea

    And, if Labour actually increase their seat numbers:
    +10 Zela
    +20 Tigranocerta
    +30 Zama


    I see this election as being somewhere between Carrhae and Teutoberg forest.

    Now that's a sentence I never thought I would type
    Adds a touch of class to a political bumfight.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    calum said:
    Moray is well beyond the Scottish Tories, at least this time. In the longer run as the SNP get more comfortable in SLAB's old central belt, left wing and centralising slippers the North East will turn their back on them but not yet. Reduced majority but comfortable.
    It's a scalp too far - also voters tend to like having a prominent MP represent them, and with all due respect to the Tory candidate, he'll not be in that position for a while....
    On this poll the Tories would take Moray and it would Unionist tactical voting that would take them over the line
    Its not a poll, it's a subsample and too good to be true.
    The only sensible Tory in the village
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935

    Mr. HYUFD, thanks.

    Mr. Eagles, Hannibal marauded around Italy for over a decade. Corbyn's done nothing comparable.

    That's OK
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    calum said:
    Moray is well beyond the Scottish Tories, at least this time. In the longer run as the SNP get more comfortable in SLAB's old central belt, left wing and centralising slippers the North East will turn their back on them but not yet. Reduced majority but comfortable.
    It's a scalp too far - also voters tend to like having a prominent MP represent them, and with all due respect to the Tory candidate, he'll not be in that position for a while....
    On this poll the Tories would take Moray and it would Unionist tactical voting that would take them over the line
    Its not a poll, it's a subsample and too good to be true.
    Pollsters certainly don't seem to have a problem with shy Tories in Scotland when it comes time to ring round.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    calum said:
    Moray is well beyond the Scottish Tories, at least this time. In the longer run as the SNP get more comfortable in SLAB's old central belt, left wing and centralising slippers the North East will turn their back on them but not yet. Reduced majority but comfortable.
    It's a scalp too far - also voters tend to like having a prominent MP represent them, and with all due respect to the Tory candidate, he'll not be in that position for a while....
    On this poll the Tories would take Moray and it would Unionist tactical voting that would take them over the line
    Its not a poll, it's a subsample and too good to be true.
    The last full Scottish poll from Panelbase in March had the Tories on 28%, so still 13% up on 2015
    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/polls_scot.html
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    calum said:
    Moray is well beyond the Scottish Tories, at least this time. In the longer run as the SNP get more comfortable in SLAB's old central belt, left wing and centralising slippers the North East will turn their back on them but not yet. Reduced majority but comfortable.
    It's a scalp too far - also voters tend to like having a prominent MP represent them, and with all due respect to the Tory candidate, he'll not be in that position for a while....
    On this poll the Tories would take Moray and it would Unionist tactical voting that would take them over the line
    Its not a poll, it's a subsample and too good to be true.
    There's a full base poll tomorrow isn't there? Likely wont be quite as 'dramatic'......
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    DavidL said:

    How much longer can Labour hold second in share of the vote?

    I think the cross over may be in about 2019 and by the UK general election 2022, they will be firmly in 3rd place, 10-15% behind the second place party.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,215
    felix said:

    tlg86 said:

    kle4 said:

    J don't want to sound cynical but have not Opinium just looked at other pollsters and decided they had better move theirs more into line but thought they would look a bit better if they still kept them at the extreme ends of the other pollsters figures .

    It is interesting that there was a sudden pre=announcement jump from the other pollsters, and now Opinium has had a post announcement jump.
    tlg86 said:

    Do you think they've changed the rules on this since last June? I do wonder why someone who's lived here for 25 years hasn't applied for British citizenship - did they not want to vote in our elections?
    It's not a requirement that people make such a firm choice. The facts will be very interesting, as it seems a strange decision, but headlines/initial reports on these things so often turn out to be more complicated.
    I don't know much about the process, but an American I was at uni with was able to do it successfully not so long ago.
    One thing that people don't realise is that the paperwork requirements are savage - one thing missed out or out of place - FAIL.

    This is what non EU workers have faced for years.
    Is this why none ever come - oh...
    It is why the well advised hire a good immigration adviser.

    An ex did this - she would read the file and then either rejected the case, or asked for a fixed fee, deliverable on success only.

    She had an incredible reputation in her area.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    edited April 2017
    BigRich said:

    DavidL said:

    How much longer can Labour hold second in share of the vote?

    I think the cross over may be in about 2019 and by the UK general election 2022, they will be firmly in 3rd place, 10-15% behind the second place party.

    If Corbyn stays post defeat or is replaced by McDonnell very possibly
  • Options
    booksellerbookseller Posts: 416
    GeoffM said:

    MrsB said:

    Mrs B, but no-one quite knows the fate of the Ninth Legion...

    except they disappeared.....
    Just like the LibDems.

    Only 8 of them staggered out of the desolation, covered in blood.
    Didn't they all turn into the Arthurian Knights?
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    FT take on Labour manifesto:

    As with Mr Miliband, Labour will again threaten taxes on the wealthy, with an increase in the top rate of income tax and a possible mansion tax — as well as a reversal of corporation tax cuts.

    But Mr Corbyn will go further, not least by refusing to accept the need for any austerity in the public services. For example he will promise an end to the public sector freeze under which pay awards have been held back at just 1 per cent a year for four years.

    If Mr Corbyn makes it to 10 Downing Street — despite the odds — he would “renationalise” the NHS by removing all private company provision.


    https://www.ft.com/content/9b58c4f4-277e-11e7-8995-c35d0a61e61a
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838

    I've come up with a new term than saying Labour are going to get pounded like a dockside hooker.

    It's not for the faint of heart or those eating.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/851740438813954048
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    I've just had a quick look at the Labour party rules online: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6GtYu9coM3zeVZYTkRNVDlfaTg/view

    This says "No member of the Party shall engage in conduct which in the opinion of the NEC is prejudicial, or in any act which in the opinion of the NEC is grossly detrimental to the Party." The maximum penalty for this under the rules seems to be expulsion.

    Suppose Labour lose the election badly. If the NEC then declare Corbyn's conduct has been grossly detrimental to the party, as proved by their heavy defeat, Corbyn would be out of the party, so no longer eligible to be its leader.

    This would be a pretty bizarre turn of events, and require an anti-Corbyn majority on the NEC, but it might be a way for Labour to circumvent its cumbersome procedures for deposing a leader, and ensure Corbyn can't stand in future Labour leadership elections.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017

    FT take on Labour manifesto:

    As with Mr Miliband, Labour will again threaten taxes on the wealthy, with an increase in the top rate of income tax and a possible mansion tax — as well as a reversal of corporation tax cuts.

    But Mr Corbyn will go further, not least by refusing to accept the need for any austerity in the public services. For example he will promise an end to the public sector freeze under which pay awards have been held back at just 1 per cent a year for four years.

    If Mr Corbyn makes it to 10 Downing Street — despite the odds — he would “renationalise” the NHS by removing all private company provision.


    https://www.ft.com/content/9b58c4f4-277e-11e7-8995-c35d0a61e61a

    It has to be nailed on that he is offering to offer free uni for all. Only doubt if he goes full nationalisation of all utilities or he will leave it until his second term.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Wonder what the Tories will do on Defence spending? More money for Fisheries Protection vessels?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618


    For example [Corbyn] will promise an end to the public sector freeze under which pay awards have been held back at just 1 per cent a year for four years.

    That'd be nice, but sorry Jezza, I just cannot vote for you just to get a pay rise.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618

    I've just had a quick look at the Labour party rules online: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6GtYu9coM3zeVZYTkRNVDlfaTg/view

    This says "No member of the Party shall engage in conduct which in the opinion of the NEC is prejudicial, or in any act which in the opinion of the NEC is grossly detrimental to the Party." The maximum penalty for this under the rules seems to be expulsion.

    Suppose Labour lose the election badly. If the NEC then declare Corbyn's conduct has been grossly detrimental to the party, as proved by their heavy defeat, Corbyn would be out of the party, so no longer eligible to be its leader.

    This would be a pretty bizarre turn of events, and require an anti-Corbyn majority on the NEC, but it might be a way for Labour to circumvent its cumbersome procedures for deposing a leader, and ensure Corbyn can't stand in future Labour leadership elections.

    They should definitely do that, then he should take them to court.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    kle4 said:


    For example [Corbyn] will promise an end to the public sector freeze under which pay awards have been held back at just 1 per cent a year for four years.

    That'd be nice, but sorry Jezza, I just cannot vote for you just to get a pay rise.
    Is it not still the case that a huge number of public sector employees automatically move up a 'grade' every year or two, so are not actually suffering from years of stangnant pay?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited April 2017
    Omg sky news pissing myself at headline....Labour accuse Tories of planning a tax bombshell and promise not to put up IC and VAT...

    Does anybody really believe no cuts corbyn won't result in higher taxes.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    "We might need to come up with a new adjective for  just how rubbish Corbyn is"

    PB did a long time ago.

    "Corbyn is crap"
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618
    edited April 2017
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:


    For example [Corbyn] will promise an end to the public sector freeze under which pay awards have been held back at just 1 per cent a year for four years.

    That'd be nice, but sorry Jezza, I just cannot vote for you just to get a pay rise.
    Is it not still the case that a huge number of public sector employees automatically move up a 'grade' every year or two, so are not actually suffering from years of stangnant pay?
    Grades have been frozen too. At least, I haven't gone up one in years.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658





    If Mr Corbyn makes it to 10 Downing Street — despite the odds — he would “renationalise” the NHS by removing all private company provision.


    https://www.ft.com/content/9b58c4f4-277e-11e7-8995-c35d0a61e61a

    What, ALL of it??? The GPs, the cleaners, the MRI scanners, the Pharmarceutical companies...

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:


    For example [Corbyn] will promise an end to the public sector freeze under which pay awards have been held back at just 1 per cent a year for four years.

    That'd be nice, but sorry Jezza, I just cannot vote for you just to get a pay rise.
    Is it not still the case that a huge number of public sector employees automatically move up a 'grade' every year or two, so are not actually suffering from years of stangnant pay?
    Grades have been frozen too. At least, I haven't gone up one in years.
    Ah okay, fairy nuff then.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Has Opinium changed its methodology?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,215

    Mr. Malmesbury, can add it as -90, already added Allia as -80.

    Edited extra bit: must say, I don't think Labour will fall that far.

    We must be prepared.

    -100 Battle Of Adrianople?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. Root, in just under seven weeks, the list (amended) I posted below will indicate this crapness in a scientifically precise manner, defined according to Roman battlefield defeats (or success, if Labour gain seats).
  • Options
    Via Ben Walker from BritainElects:

    YouGov tonight for the ST
    Wales only YouGov on Monday
    Ipsos Mori this week
    Scotland only (pollster not given) for tomorrow's Sunday Post
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    alex. said:





    If Mr Corbyn makes it to 10 Downing Street — despite the odds — he would “renationalise” the NHS by removing all private company provision.


    https://www.ft.com/content/9b58c4f4-277e-11e7-8995-c35d0a61e61a

    What, ALL of it??? The GPs, the cleaners, the MRI scanners, the Pharmarceutical companies...

    Probably have to wait until year 2...
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.
  • Options
    ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    kle4 said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:


    For example [Corbyn] will promise an end to the public sector freeze under which pay awards have been held back at just 1 per cent a year for four years.

    That'd be nice, but sorry Jezza, I just cannot vote for you just to get a pay rise.
    Is it not still the case that a huge number of public sector employees automatically move up a 'grade' every year or two, so are not actually suffering from years of stangnant pay?
    Grades have been frozen too. At least, I haven't gone up one in years.
    Indeed. We used to move up x number of "spine" points and then the spine points were up-rated for inflation, like in the NHS, police, or army. But Osborne stopped that. I've only got 1% each year for years, other than inflation. So my current salary is worh nothing like what my equivalents' was 10 years ago in real terms.
  • Options
    ‪Is Steve Rotherham worried about Con winning the Liverpool Mayor. Con gain Bootle anyone?‬

    https://twitter.com/LivEchonews/status/855431419996274689
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618
    edited April 2017
    SeanT said:

    Has anyone else seen Beauty and the Beast? It's blood fabulous. Saw it with my older daughter today.

    It's made a billion dollars making it the biggest movie musical of all time. And deservedly so.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/beauty-and-the-beast-billion-dollars

    I loved it (didn't like the Jungle Book remake). My young niece did not, but without her I'd not be able to see it.

    From my recollections I think they made Gaston even more villainous than the original cartoon.

    Edit: As for 'has anyone else seen' it, well given the amount of money it has made, probably everyone.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    edited April 2017
    Mr. Malmesbury, if we're adding that, we might as well end up including Manzikert and the Fourth Crusade...

    Honestly, there is a limit. Labour has many die hard supporters and will be sheltered a lot by the electoral system.

    I thought going down to 70 seat losses was quite sufficient.

    Still, in the interests of science and completeness, I shall add a few more.

    Edited extra bit: although, I've managed to stick with just Western stuff so far, and those two are Eastern.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,215

    Wonder what the Tories will do on Defence spending? More money for Fisheries Protection vessels?

    Some more Batch 2 Rivers wouldn't be a completely silly idea.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,964
    Mr. kle4, seen the Deadpool parody of the Gaston song? It's rather good.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618

    ‪Is Steve Rotherham worried about Con winning the Liverpool Mayor. Con gain Bootle anyone?‬

    tps://twitter.com/LivEchonews/status/855431419996274689

    You what? When's the close of nominations, as he will surely be Mayor by May 5th.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,890
    edited April 2017
    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Betting question team -

    I put £5 e/w 1/5th the odds on a horse on the Betfair Exchange odds of Decimal 13.

    The horse was placed. They paid out £7 profit plus returned my stake.

    I think they should have paid out £12 profit plus returned my stake.

    My calcs:

    13 = 12/1
    12/1 x 1/5th the odds = 2.4
    Therefore they should have paid me (2.4 x £5) + £5 = £17.

    Instead they paid me ([2.4-1] x £5) +£5 = £12.

    Surely can't be right? Or can it?

    Edit: if wrong, has Betfair been systematically doing this since they started offering e/w betting?

    Topping for me on any normal betting you would get 12/5 a place and so return of £17.
    It seems for all the world like it to me but perhaps I am missing something. I am going to write to them (and trust me not just customer support - I was thinking more investor relations) to ask about it!!
    The bet returns should be £17

    £5@12/1 loser
    £5@12/5 winner

    Stake £10
    Return £17
    Profit £7
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Has anyone else seen Beauty and the Beast? It's blood fabulous. Saw it with my older daughter today.

    It's made a billion dollars making it the biggest movie musical of all time. And deservedly so.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/beauty-and-the-beast-billion-dollars

    I loved it (didn't like the Jungle Book remake). My young niece did not, but without her I'd not be able to see it.

    From my recollections I think they made Gaston even more villainous than the original cartoon.
    Same. Didn't like Jungle Book, was therefore not looking forward to this.

    It's superb. Funny, clever, visually amazing, great songs, brilliant ideas, and actually quite moving in places.
    And didn't at the time Emma Watson get ridiculed for not taking La La Land?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,215

    Mr. Malmesbury, if we're adding that, we might as well end up including Manzikert and the Fourth Crusade...

    Honestly, there is a limit. Labour has many die hard supporters and will be sheltered a lot by the electoral system.

    I thought going down to 70 seat losses was quite sufficient.

    Still, in the interests of science and completeness, I shall add a few more.

    Edited extra bit: although, I've managed to stick with just Western stuff so far, and those two are Eastern.

    They used trebuchets on the 4th Crusade...
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,935
    SeanT said:

    Has anyone else seen Beauty and the Beast? It's bloody fabulous. Saw it with my older daughter today.

    It's made a billion dollars making it the biggest movie musical of all time. And deservedly so.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/beauty-and-the-beast-billion-dollars

    Yes, saw it a few weeks ago and it was excellent, biggest selling movie of 2017 so far (Dan Stevens who plays the Beast was also the year below me at school)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618

    Mr. kle4, seen the Deadpool parody of the Gaston song? It's rather good.

    I have now. Extravagant production for a parody song!
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,209
    isam said:

    TOPPING said:

    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    Betting question team -

    I put £5 e/w 1/5th the odds on a horse on the Betfair Exchange odds of Decimal 13.

    The horse was placed. They paid out £7 profit plus returned my stake.

    I think they should have paid out £12 profit plus returned my stake.

    My calcs:

    13 = 12/1
    12/1 x 1/5th the odds = 2.4
    Therefore they should have paid me (2.4 x £5) + £5 = £17.

    Instead they paid me ([2.4-1] x £5) +£5 = £12.

    Surely can't be right? Or can it?

    Edit: if wrong, has Betfair been systematically doing this since they started offering e/w betting?

    Topping for me on any normal betting you would get 12/5 a place and so return of £17.
    It seems for all the world like it to me but perhaps I am missing something. I am going to write to them (and trust me not just customer support - I was thinking more investor relations) to ask about it!!
    The bet returns should be £17

    £5@12/1 loser
    £5@12/5 winner

    Stake £10
    Return £17
    Profit £7
    PM'd you.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    TOPPING said:

    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.

    Thanks for the update, these 'dispatches from the front' from activists who are also PB Posters add texture to the poles.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,792
    BigRich said:

    TOPPING said:

    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.

    Thanks for the update, these 'dispatches from the front' from activists who are also PB Posters add texture to the poles.
    Yes, always interesting but keep in mind Dr Nick Palmer's fabled canvassing returns weren't much help in the end in 2010 and 2015...
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    SeanT said:

    Has anyone else seen Beauty and the Beast? It's bloody fabulous. Saw it with my older daughter today.

    It's made a billion dollars making it the biggest movie musical of all time. And deservedly so.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/beauty-and-the-beast-billion-dollars

    Great fun - caused a minor hoo-ha in Malaysia when the director observed that one of the characters was gay & Malaysian censors demanded cuts. Disney said Foxtrot Oscar and removed the film from distribution. Malaysia backed down
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,792

    Via Ben Walker from BritainElects:

    YouGov tonight for the ST
    Wales only YouGov on Monday
    Ipsos Mori this week
    Scotland only (pollster not given) for tomorrow's Sunday Post

    If there's one pollster that will put the Tories on 50%+ it's surely MORI... ;)

  • Options
    kle4 said:

    ‪Is Steve Rotherham worried about Con winning the Liverpool Mayor. Con gain Bootle anyone?‬

    tps://twitter.com/LivEchonews/status/855431419996274689

    You what? When's the close of nominations, as he will surely be Mayor by May 5th.
    You can be concurrently an MP and a Mayor.

    Boris and Ken managed it for a year each.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Chris said:

    MrsB said:


    Tim Farron as Peter - thought of as just a kid to start with but becomes a mighty warrior

    Surely more like Reepicheep the valiant mouse?
    He's more like Frank Baum's lion than CS Lewis's.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,792
    calum said:
    I assume the one party that's not improving in Scotland is Labour? ;)
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    GIN1138 said:

    BigRich said:

    TOPPING said:

    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.

    Thanks for the update, these 'dispatches from the front' from activists who are also PB Posters add texture to the poles.
    Yes, always interesting but keep in mind Dr Nick Palmer's fabled canvassing returns weren't much help in the end in 2010 and 2015...
    That's a beautiful way of typing "...were absolutely fictional partisan bollocks".
  • Options
    GIN1138 said:

    calum said:
    I assume the one party that's not improving in Scotland is Labour? ;)
    Can only think SLab or the tiny number that voted UKIP have completely abandoned them.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    GIN1138 said:

    calum said:
    I assume the one party that's not improving in Scotland is Labour? ;)
    It would be a surprise if it was anyone else.....all the subsamples have been pretty consistent.....
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,792
    GeoffM said:

    GIN1138 said:

    BigRich said:

    TOPPING said:

    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.

    Thanks for the update, these 'dispatches from the front' from activists who are also PB Posters add texture to the poles.
    Yes, always interesting but keep in mind Dr Nick Palmer's fabled canvassing returns weren't much help in the end in 2010 and 2015...
    That's a beautiful way of typing "...were absolutely fictional partisan bollocks".
    You said that not me... ;)
  • Options
    AlsoIndigoAlsoIndigo Posts: 1,852
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    SeanT said:

    Has anyone else seen Beauty and the Beast? It's blood fabulous. Saw it with my older daughter today.

    It's made a billion dollars making it the biggest movie musical of all time. And deservedly so.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/beauty-and-the-beast-billion-dollars

    I loved it (didn't like the Jungle Book remake). My young niece did not, but without her I'd not be able to see it.

    From my recollections I think they made Gaston even more villainous than the original cartoon.
    Same. Didn't like Jungle Book, was therefore not looking forward to this.

    It's superb. Funny, clever, visually amazing, great songs, brilliant ideas, and actually quite moving in places.
    Ah yes cinemas, I remember them, one of the downsides of my current gig is I get into a town big enough to have a cinema about three times a year, and when I am there its usually some romcom garbage being shown!
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Wonder what the Tories will do on Defence spending? More money for Fisheries Protection vessels?

    Some more Batch 2 Rivers wouldn't be a completely silly idea.
    Can we have a couple of destroyers, please, to help with the capture of Andalucia?
  • Options
    jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    Has anyone else seen Beauty and the Beast? It's bloody fabulous. Saw it with my older daughter today.

    It's made a billion dollars making it the biggest movie musical of all time. And deservedly so.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/beauty-and-the-beast-billion-dollars

    Yes, saw it a few weeks ago and it was excellent, biggest selling movie of 2017 so far (Dan Stevens who plays the Beast was also the year below me at school)
    My Grandson 6 cried when Gaston did what he did.( do not want to reveal the story too much, but we all know it).
    Grandson came home and said "I hate Gaston".
    The animation took us to a new level, no wonder it has been so well received.
  • Options
    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    GIN1138 said:

    BigRich said:

    TOPPING said:

    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.

    Thanks for the update, these 'dispatches from the front' from activists who are also PB Posters add texture to the poles.
    Yes, always interesting but keep in mind Dr Nick Palmer's fabled canvassing returns weren't much help in the end in 2010 and 2015...
    Yerr, you have a point, on NPs Updates from last time, putting to much wait on any one source/type of information can be a risk, but its still interesting to hear. and adds another angle
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,838
    edited April 2017
    GIN1138 said:

    BigRich said:

    TOPPING said:

    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.

    Thanks for the update, these 'dispatches from the front' from activists who are also PB Posters add texture to the poles.
    Yes, always interesting but keep in mind Dr Nick Palmer's fabled canvassing returns weren't much help in the end in 2010 and 2015...
    To be fair to Nick, he was the candidate. Was hardly going to claim Dan Hodges' £3k prize by saying he thought he was going to lose on a public forum, was he?

    As an aside, whoever is behind the Maomentum Twitter feed is an absolute genius. Political satire at its very best, laugh out loud funny especially when intertwined with retweets from real Corbyn supporters. https://twitter.com/Maomentum_
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,953
    edited April 2017

    Via Ben Walker from BritainElects:

    YouGov tonight for the ST
    Wales only YouGov on Monday
    Ipsos Mori this week
    Scotland only (pollster not given) for tomorrow's Sunday Post

    I think the SP tend to use Survation.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,810
    SeanT said:

    Has anyone else seen Beauty and the Beast? It's bloody fabulous. Saw it with my older daughter today.

    It's made a billion dollars making it the biggest movie musical of all time. And deservedly so.

    http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/04/beauty-and-the-beast-billion-dollars

    Absolutely stunning film. Enjoyed it immensely.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,618

    kle4 said:

    ‪Is Steve Rotherham worried about Con winning the Liverpool Mayor. Con gain Bootle anyone?‬

    tps://twitter.com/LivEchonews/status/855431419996274689

    You what? When's the close of nominations, as he will surely be Mayor by May 5th.
    You can be concurrently an MP and a Mayor.

    Boris and Ken managed it for a year each.
    I know, but I'd assumed he would not be double jobbing.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,792
    Theresa's personal ratings are pretty astonishing...
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    BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489

    GIN1138 said:

    calum said:
    I assume the one party that's not improving in Scotland is Labour? ;)
    Can only think SLab or the tiny number that voted UKIP have completely abandoned them.
    I would imagine that Scottish UKIP will struggle to find and put up candidates this time, and the 1% or whatever they got last time will switch strata to SCON, without much fuss.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    GIN1138 said:

    Via Ben Walker from BritainElects:

    YouGov tonight for the ST
    Wales only YouGov on Monday
    Ipsos Mori this week
    Scotland only (pollster not given) for tomorrow's Sunday Post

    If there's one pollster that will put the Tories on 50%+ it's surely MORI... ;)

    Good old Bouncy MORI. They were the ones with Tories 52% in 2008ish, right?
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,792
    Sandpit said:

    GIN1138 said:

    BigRich said:

    TOPPING said:

    News from the (English) streets today in Ealing Central and Acton - a Remain-voting London Lab-held Super-marginal you would think one of the first constituencies to fall. Big houses champagne socialism territory:

    Plenty of disgust at the Cons (NHS, Brexit, immigrant registers, broken promises).

    Some despair from Lab voters at Jezza. Many thought he was a breath of fresh air.

    Some Lab and Cons voters now without a home. Net net I think enough Lab voters will go LD giving it to Cons I hope but no room for complacency.

    No value from the betting markets here but plenty of Lab support.

    Thanks for the update, these 'dispatches from the front' from activists who are also PB Posters add texture to the poles.
    Yes, always interesting but keep in mind Dr Nick Palmer's fabled canvassing returns weren't much help in the end in 2010 and 2015...
    To be fair to Nick, he was the candidate. Was hardly going to claim Dan Hodges' £3k prize by saying he thought he was going to lose on a public forum, was he?

    Don't get me wrong I like Dr Nick. If he is standing again in Broxtowe in 2017 I wish him every success in beating Ms. Soubry...
This discussion has been closed.