politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After an extraordinary political week tonight sees a bumper
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The whole point is that it targets only those who seek to live in a fundamentalist manner, liberal/secular Muslims who don't feel the need to pray five times a day or don't force their wives and daughters to wear burkas etc... would be unaffected by the policy changes. It's not about targeting a certain type of person, it's about targeting certain types of behaviour. The law applies to everyone.murali_s said:
Some good points here.
But, isn't this the slippery slope? There is a possibility that there will be a huge backlash against ALL Muslims and ALL ethnic minorities. After 'cleansing' out Islam, what's next?0 -
One of the goals of PREVENT is to head things off at the pass. Few people move directly from ordinary joe to Jihadi, in the same way that serial killers often start with animal cruelty. Intelligence can help identify that process of radicalisation.anotherDave said:
The 'successful' attacks seem to be small cells or individuals acting alone. Nothing for spys to see.John_M said:
I can't sleep. We have had so many happy times in France. We had a lovely cottage in Manse for many years and the locals were always warm, friendly and welcoming. Its my second favourite country in the world. So. More PB.KentRising said:
Some expert on BBC News just said France is "playing catch up" in regards to terrorism prevention. But I'd have thought as a member of the EU etc....SeanT said:
Here's one thing - suddenly Brexit seems that little bit more sensible. I'll bet there's less Bremorse tomorrow, as people digest this hideous news.kle4 said:
War with where though? The problem is a stateless concept. Stamping down ISIS seems like the only way to contain matters, for a time, but it'll be back.DanSmith said:How much longer can France keep taking this punishment? You either go to war or you vote in someone like Le Pen, things are about to get nasty either way.
Best wishes to all tonight - let harsh words be forgotten in the aftermath.
Could the reality possibly be that being part of the EU doesn't make a blind bit of difference one way or another to a country's security from terror threats?
The answer is: it depends. No government can protect its citizens from the determined lone wolf or small cell. We should remember that we don't even know that it was a Muslim; we're just assuming. That's sad in and of itself.
Schengen just adds to the headaches. In addition to your local threat register, you have to worry about your neighbours' radicals too.
We tend to think about the EU from our perspective. You may think its British exceptionalism, but we have one of the world's great SIGINT agencies (bolstered by UKUSA, excellent intelligence agencies and a well funded, relatively incorruptible police service.
That's not true across the bloc. From an intelligence perspective there are far more consumer countries than producers. The smaller nations gain a great deal from the collective security apparatus of the EU.0 -
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/753728269019549696
More or less confirms it is Pence imo, but another couple of days till confirmation.0 -
delete0
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I wonder if the media will take the opportunity to bring up Sharia with May?0
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It is beyond comprehension, it really is.AndyJS said:
Sadly the death toll will probably be a lot higher than 73 if it really was 2km.PlatoSaid said:Tim Marshall
Le Figaro and others say 73 dead in Nice attack. Truck drove up to 2 kilometres thru crowds before halting.
2kms!!
And I don't see a solution that will actually work0 -
So multiple countries within Europe have been simply lucky? I don't claim that UK has never had its issues with terrorism or that Rotheram never happened either. But we have never suffered three terrorists attacks from Islamic extremists in under two years. Nor has any other European country, IIRC. This is unprecedented and that is why it is so incredibly shocking.SeanT said:Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.
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That could have waited until tomorrow, I think.brokenwheel said:I wonder if the media will take the opportunity to bring up Sharia with May?
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If someone had had a stinger available they might have been able to stop the truck earlier. Would they work with trucks?0
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No, it will not wait.RobD said:
That could have waited until tomorrow, I think.brokenwheel said:I wonder if the media will take the opportunity to bring up Sharia with May?
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BBC News suggesting two further incidents, possibly with hostages. Police seen rushing into a nightclub with stretchers. (Of course, it may just be that was being used as a temporary field hospital.)SeanT said:Apparently the driver's accomplice is on the run. Hence the continued police anxiety.
Or so Twitter says. Who knows.0 -
Sometimes death tolls are overstated early on. Hopefully, it's the case here.AndyJS said:
Sadly the death toll will probably be a lot higher than 73 if it really was 2km.PlatoSaid said:Tim Marshall
Le Figaro and others say 73 dead in Nice attack. Truck drove up to 2 kilometres thru crowds before halting.
2kms!!
The most frightening, dreadful thing is that it is French people doing this in France. There is an Islamic disease. We cannot beat about the bush here. Unfortunately, Moslems have to accept that only they can find the solution. I wish it were otherwise, but it's not.
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Agreed. The only difference between us and France is a superior intelligence service, it seems. Both France and the UK share a postcolonial guilt that has led to multiculralism on a huge scale. That's fine when it includes people who share the same norms, beliefs and values as the wider population....SeanT said:
Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.The_Apocalypse said:
I do agree that Radicals within the Muslim community take advantage of the disaffection that some Muslims may feel and use that to radicalise young Muslims. There does appear to be a unique level of disaffection in France, that I cannot really see in this country in regard to the Banlieues. From the little I have read about them, I cannot sight many places if Britain that are quite like them. Nonetheless, many countries in Europe have a colonial history. Britain certainly does, and yet in terms of integration we do not seem to have anywhere near the kind of issues France has had (and still has) with 2nd and 3rd generations.MaxPB said:
It creates another layer of insulation between Muslims and non-Muslims in Europe. Intermarriage among immigrant and minorities is the lowest for Muslims in the UK, I can't imagine the situation is vastly different in France.The_Apocalypse said:
I can see how Muslims only going to Muslim schools and not integrating with the rest of the population would cause issues. But I am not sure how arranged marriages or wives from the Middle East are causing radicalisation.
I don't think EPG wants to put up with any of the things you listed at all. I certainly don't. I just think he/she is concerned about generalising an entire group of people. There are more than a billion Muslims on planet earth. I definitely think there is an issue with radicalization within their communities without a doubt but I personally do not feel likes of Marine Le Pen are the answer. And others such as @John_M and @Jeremy_Brown have also pointed to disaffection as a cause as well as some of the values said in the name of Islam.
Disaffected British youth don't blow everyone else up. Disaffection may be an indirect cause, but Islam lights the fuse (just as Brexit has done for our own idiots wrt racial attacks, unfortunately). Radical Imams and websites channel that disaffection into violence against non-Muslims using the violence and justification for violence against non-Muslims contained in the Koran.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.0 -
There is no left or centrist solution. Other than accepting the futility of the state, which the statists will never do.SeanT said:
YES THERE IS A SOLUTIONoxfordsimon said:
It is beyond comprehension, it really is.AndyJS said:
Sadly the death toll will probably be a lot higher than 73 if it really was 2km.PlatoSaid said:Tim Marshall
Le Figaro and others say 73 dead in Nice attack. Truck drove up to 2 kilometres thru crowds before halting.
2kms!!
And I don't see a solution that will actually work
Face it. Otherwise it will be civil war.0 -
Lucky and to a certain degree better equipped. It's going to be tough to lose Theresa May as Home Secretary because she actually did a pretty good job in keeping us well protected in terms of funding for anti-terror programmes and protecting intelligence budgets etc...SeanT said:
Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.
IIRC it was her and Hammond who got together and went above George's head to the PM to get real terms protection for the intelligence budgets. It's why May and Osborne never really got on.0 -
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Stinger is a SAM. A spike strip would likely be ineffective. Shooting the engine might work. Killing the driver would be very difficult. An articulated lorry is a horribly effective weapon.AndyJS said:If someone had had a stinger available they might have been able to stop the truck earlier. Would they work with trucks?
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Even if France elects Le Pen and they stop all Muslim migration they still have an enemy within. An enemy that wants to completely destroy the French way of life. Its not about as some say a marginalised minority because many have gone to fight in Syria from the west with very middle class backgrounds, even medical students. This is about ideology that's it and Hollande needs to get a bloody grip.
Thank you to our security services for keeping us safe, and thank Allah we have May as PM.0 -
I hope Theresa May got a good night's sleep last night because she probably won't get much tonight. Serious point.0
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Front Nationale's polling numbers will be one to watch. You'd expect them to jump.AndyJS said:Trump's response:
twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/753720863606775809
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Andy means one of these: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/stinger-halts-wrongway-milk-cart-31087836.htmlJohn_M said:
Stinger is a SAM. A spike strip would likely be ineffective. Shooting the engine might work. Killing the driver would be very difficult.AndyJS said:If someone had had a stinger available they might have been able to stop the truck earlier. Would they work with trucks?
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Apparently there were fireworks going on at the time of the attack. Would have made it more difficult for people to realise what was happening at the start. Probably deliberate from the attacker.0
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The UK and France are fairly unique in Europe in terms of the post colonial settlement. No other country has received such high levels of Islamic migration as France or the UK. Only Germany but they have secular since the 1920s Turkish migration rather than Pakistani or North African migration. We simply can't compare the situation on France to any other European nation other than the UK and vice versa.The_Apocalypse said:
So multiple countries within Europe have been simply lucky? I don't claim that UK has never had its issues with terrorism or that Rotheram never happened either. But we have never suffered three terrorists attacks from Islamic extremists in under two years. Nor has any other European country, IIRC. This is unprecedented and that is why it is so incredibly shocking.SeanT said:Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.0 -
Ah nomenclature. That's a spike strip in my world. No, that wouldn't work.Tissue_Price said:
Andy means one of these: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/stinger-halts-wrongway-milk-cart-31087836.htmlJohn_M said:
Stinger is a SAM. A spike strip would likely be ineffective. Shooting the engine might work. Killing the driver would be very difficult.AndyJS said:If someone had had a stinger available they might have been able to stop the truck earlier. Would they work with trucks?
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I had wondered what SAM meant in the context!Tissue_Price said:
Andy means one of these: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/stinger-halts-wrongway-milk-cart-31087836.htmlJohn_M said:
Stinger is a SAM. A spike strip would likely be ineffective. Shooting the engine might work. Killing the driver would be very difficult.AndyJS said:If someone had had a stinger available they might have been able to stop the truck earlier. Would they work with trucks?
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Considerably more than 70 dead. In the attached link there are videos. All are extremely not safe for life and completely horrific. View at your own discretion. The magnitude of the massacre is massive. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4svm8c/truck_crashes_into_bastille_day_crowd_in_nice/d5ckewx0
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A lorry is not a subtle weapon.AndyJS said:Apparently there were fireworks going on at the time of the attack. Would have made it more difficult for people to realise what was happening at the start. Probably deliberate from the attacker.
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I thought he meant surface to air missile but figured it must have been something else!RobD said:
I had wondered what SAM meant in the context!Tissue_Price said:
Andy means one of these: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/uk/stinger-halts-wrongway-milk-cart-31087836.htmlJohn_M said:
Stinger is a SAM. A spike strip would likely be ineffective. Shooting the engine might work. Killing the driver would be very difficult.AndyJS said:If someone had had a stinger available they might have been able to stop the truck earlier. Would they work with trucks?
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Lib Dems gained St Teath and St Breward from Ind very large majority0
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Grenades and guns found in the truck0
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I can't believe France24 have got to a Sports update...0
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The origins are different though.MaxPB said:
The UK and France are fairly unique in Europe in terms of the post colonial settlement. No other country has received such high levels of Islamic migration as France or the UK. Only Germany but they have secular since the 1920s Turkish migration rather than Pakistani or North African migration. We simply can't compare the situation on France to any other European nation other than the UK and vice versa.The_Apocalypse said:
So multiple countries within Europe have been simply lucky? I don't claim that UK has never had its issues with terrorism or that Rotheram never happened either. But we have never suffered three terrorists attacks from Islamic extremists in under two years. Nor has any other European country, IIRC. This is unprecedented and that is why it is so incredibly shocking.SeanT said:Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.
France: algeria
UK: pakistan, bangladesh
Germany: Turkey. (more recently syria, iraq, afghanistan)0 -
Looks like it was going at about 30mph. Just a guess.Chameleon said:Considerably more than 70 dead. In the attached link there are videos. All are extremely not safe for life and completely horrific. View at your own discretion. The magnitude of the massacre is massive. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4svm8c/truck_crashes_into_bastille_day_crowd_in_nice/d5ckewx
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I'm due to go to Nice on holiday next month.
I'm still going.
Fuck these twats.0 -
From the looks of their reporting they are a French version of the BBC so not surprised.oxfordsimon said:I can't believe France24 have got to a Sports update...
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Ok. I have heard that Germany has had their issues with Turkish integration, but it is obviously not to anywhere near the extent that we and particularly France have had. I wonder what makes Muslims of Pakistani or North African descent (seemingly) more likely to be radicalised than those of Turkish origin? Either way, we've got to a find a solution to this problem.MaxPB said:
The UK and France are fairly unique in Europe in terms of the post colonial settlement. No other country has received such high levels of Islamic migration as France or the UK. Only Germany but they have secular since the 1920s Turkish migration rather than Pakistani or North African migration. We simply can't compare the situation on France to any other European nation other than the UK and vice versa.The_Apocalypse said:
So multiple countries within Europe have been simply lucky? I don't claim that UK has never had its issues with terrorism or that Rotheram never happened either. But we have never suffered three terrorists attacks from Islamic extremists in under two years. Nor has any other European country, IIRC. This is unprecedented and that is why it is so incredibly shocking.SeanT said:Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.0 -
Absolutely. Support the local economy. Good practical way of helping.ThreeQuidder said:I'm due to go to Nice on holiday next month.
I'm still going.
Fuck these twats.0 -
"Did boredom fuel Donald Trump's presidential campaign?"
http://us.cnn.com/2016/07/14/health/boredom-extreme-politics/index.html0 -
BBC humorous video on POTUS prediction here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-36473888
Five prediction methods outlined:
* model from Moody's Analytics
* Norpoth's model based on primary performance
* Names ending in "n"
* First-time Olympic holder
* Allan Lichtman's questionnaire0 -
There is a (non graphic) video of the truck approaching the crowd, it was going along the Promenade at a very slow speed and as it approached the crowd (hidden behind trees) it accelerates, I could easily see it hitting 40 before it starts to hit the crowd.AndyJS said:
Looks like it was going at about 30mph. Just a guess.Chameleon said:Considerably more than 70 dead. In the attached link there are videos. All are extremely not safe for life and completely horrific. View at your own discretion. The magnitude of the massacre is massive. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4svm8c/truck_crashes_into_bastille_day_crowd_in_nice/d5ckewx
Sadly, I think the idea that there are many more than 70 dead is likely to be accurate, it was a huge crowd.0 -
Fox News is taking the Sky News feed. One of the Sky folks said that 'Promenade des Anglais' meant 'Street of Angels'. Obviously they haven't heard about Brexit yet.0
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Le Figaro reporting that guns and grenades were found inside the truck.0
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Well said. Also going to a wedding in France in a couple of weeks. We can't let them stop our plans.ThreeQuidder said:I'm due to go to Nice on holiday next month.
I'm still going.
Fuck these twats.0 -
night all.0
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I suspect that it is more to do with the socio-economic status of the immigrants, The poorer and more marginalised they are, the more likely they are to be radicalised. France has the Banlieus(?) which are basically ghettos for poor young muslims.The_Apocalypse said:
Ok. I have heard that Germany has had their issues with Turkish integration, but it is obviously not to anywhere near the extent that we and particularly France have had. I wonder what makes Muslims of Pakistani or North African descent (seemingly) more likely to be radicalised than those of Turkish origin? Either way, we've got to a find a solution to this problem.MaxPB said:
The UK and France are fairly unique in Europe in terms of the post colonial settlement. No other country has received such high levels of Islamic migration as France or the UK. Only Germany but they have secular since the 1920s Turkish migration rather than Pakistani or North African migration. We simply can't compare the situation on France to any other European nation other than the UK and vice versa.The_Apocalypse said:
So multiple countries within Europe have been simply lucky? I don't claim that UK has never had its issues with terrorism or that Rotheram never happened either. But we have never suffered three terrorists attacks from Islamic extremists in under two years. Nor has any other European country, IIRC. This is unprecedented and that is why it is so incredibly shocking.SeanT said:Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.0 -
Yet another Islamist outrage.
RIP mes amis
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PREVENT has zero support in the Muslim community in Britain BTW.John_M said:
One of the goals of PREVENT is to head things off at the pass. Few people move directly from ordinary joe to Jihadi, in the same way that serial killers often start with animal cruelty. Intelligence can help identify that process of radicalisation.anotherDave said:
The 'successful' attacks seem to be small cells or individuals acting alone. Nothing for spys to see.John_M said:
I can't sleep. We have had so many happy times in France. We had a lovely cottage in Manse for many years and the locals were always warm, friendly and welcoming. Its my second favourite country in the world. So. More PB.KentRising said:
Some expert on BBC News just said France is "playing catch up" in regards to terrorism prevention. But I'd have thought as a member of the EU etc....SeanT said:
Here's one thing - suddenly Brexit seems that little bit more sensible. I'll bet there's less Bremorse tomorrow, as people digest this hideous news.kle4 said:
War with where though? The problem is a stateless concept. Stamping down ISIS seems like the only way to contain matters, for a time, but it'll be back.DanSmith said:How much longer can France keep taking this punishment? You either go to war or you vote in someone like Le Pen, things are about to get nasty either way.
Best wishes to all tonight - let harsh words be forgotten in the aftermath.
Could the reality possibly be that being part of the EU doesn't make a blind bit of difference one way or another to a country's security from terror threats?
The answer is: it depends. No government can protect its citizens from the determined lone wolf or small cell. We should remember that we don't even know that it was a Muslim; we're just assuming. That's sad in and of itself.
Schengen just adds to the headaches. In addition to your local threat register, you have to worry about your neighbours' radicals too.
We tend to think about the EU from our perspective. You may think its British exceptionalism, but we have one of the world's great SIGINT agencies (bolstered by UKUSA, excellent intelligence agencies and a well funded, relatively incorruptible police service.
That's not true across the bloc. From an intelligence perspective there are far more consumer countries than producers. The smaller nations gain a great deal from the collective security apparatus of the EU.0 -
Thank Atatürk for Turkish (relative) secularism. I had Turkish friends as a kid and other than a passing mention that they went to "church" on a Friday night - which I thought a novel time of the week - there was nothing to suggest they were Muslim. Those days are going, I fear.The_Apocalypse said:
Ok. I have heard that Germany has had their issues with Turkish integration, but it is obviously not to anywhere near the extent that we and particularly France have had. I wonder what makes Muslims of Pakistani or North African descent (seemingly) more likely to be radicalised than those of Turkish origin? Either way, we've got to a find a solution to this problem.MaxPB said:
The UK and France are fairly unique in Europe in terms of the post colonial settlement. No other country has received such high levels of Islamic migration as France or the UK. Only Germany but they have secular since the 1920s Turkish migration rather than Pakistani or North African migration. We simply can't compare the situation on France to any other European nation other than the UK and vice versa.The_Apocalypse said:
So multiple countries within Europe have been simply lucky? I don't claim that UK has never had its issues with terrorism or that Rotheram never happened either. But we have never suffered three terrorists attacks from Islamic extremists in under two years. Nor has any other European country, IIRC. This is unprecedented and that is why it is so incredibly shocking.SeanT said:Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.0 -
Another casualty of the French attack - Trump has cancelled his scheduled press conference to announce his VP nomination, which was to be at 11am EDT tomorrow.-1
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Chameleon said:
Considerably more than 70 dead. In the attached link there are videos. All are extremely not safe for life and completely horrific. View at your own discretion. The magnitude of the massacre is massive. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4svm8c/truck_crashes_into_bastille_day_crowd_in_nice/d5ckewx
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Oh please can you edit that link so we don't have to see it??0
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Southern Baptists go to church on a Wednesday evening. Unfortunately those days are not going.KentRising said:
Thank Atatürk for Turkish (relative) secularism. I had Turkish friends as a kid and other than a passing mention that they went to "church" on a Friday night - which I thought a novel time of the week - there was nothing to suggest they were Muslim. Those days are going, I fear.The_Apocalypse said:
Ok. I have heard that Germany has had their issues with Turkish integration, but it is obviously not to anywhere near the extent that we and particularly France have had. I wonder what makes Muslims of Pakistani or North African descent (seemingly) more likely to be radicalised than those of Turkish origin? Either way, we've got to a find a solution to this problem.MaxPB said:
The UK and France are fairly unique in Europe in terms of the post colonial settlement. No other country has received such high levels of Islamic migration as France or the UK. Only Germany but they have secular since the 1920s Turkish migration rather than Pakistani or North African migration. We simply can't compare the situation on France to any other European nation other than the UK and vice versa.The_Apocalypse said:
So multiple countries within Europe have been simply lucky? I don't claim that UK has never had its issues with terrorism or that Rotheram never happened either. But we have never suffered three terrorists attacks from Islamic extremists in under two years. Nor has any other European country, IIRC. This is unprecedented and that is why it is so incredibly shocking.SeanT said:Delusional bullshit. The UK has simply been lucky. We have just as many horrible Islamist nutters, and just as much loathing of the West in certain Muslim communities.
Plus we had mass Islamic racist gang rape of white girls, pretty uniquely.
Nice will very likely happen in the UK, in some form.0 -
Brokenwheel: maybe you should make the link an indirect one.0
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While the edit button is still working, do you think you might reconsider posting that?brokenwheel said:
...Chameleon said:Considerably more than 70 dead. In the attached link there are videos. All are extremely not safe for life and completely horrific. View at your own discretion. The magnitude of the massacre is massive. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/4svm8c/truck_crashes_into_bastille_day_crowd_in_nice/d5ckewx
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What worries me is that children all over the world are inevitably going to see this footage. I didn't have to see anything like this until I was over 18.RobD said:
and if you do insist on keeping the link, put a HUGE warning on it please.AndyJS said:Brokenwheel: maybe you should make the link an indirect one.
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Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.0
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Yeah, can't be good in terms of radicalisation.AndyJS said:
What worries me is that children all over the world are inevitably going to see this footage. I didn't have to see anything like this until I was over 18.RobD said:
and if you do insist on keeping the link, put a HUGE warning on it please.AndyJS said:Brokenwheel: maybe you should make the link an indirect one.
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Believe me, I know.nunu said:
PREVENT has zero support in the Muslim community in Britain BTW.John_M said:
One of the goals of PREVENT is to head things off at the pass. Few people move directly from ordinary joe to Jihadi, in the same way that serial killers often start with animal cruelty. Intelligence can help identify that process of radicalisation.anotherDave said:
The 'successful' attacks seem to be small cells or individuals acting alone. Nothing for spys to see.John_M said:
I can't sleep. We have had so many happy times in France. We had a lovely cottage in Manse for many years and the locals were always warm, friendly and welcoming. Its my second favourite country in the world. So. More PB.KentRising said:
Some expert on BBC News just said France is "playing catch up" in regards to terrorism prevention. But I'd have thought as a member of the EU etc....SeanT said:
Here's one thing - suddenly Brexit seems that little bit more sensible. I'll bet there's less Bremorse tomorrow, as people digest this hideous news.kle4 said:
War with where though? The problem is a stateless concept. Stamping down ISIS seems like the only way to contain matters, for a time, but it'll be back.DanSmith said:How much longer can France keep taking this punishment? You either go to war or you vote in someone like Le Pen, things are about to get nasty either way.
Best wishes to all tonight - let harsh words be forgotten in the aftermath.
Could the reality possibly be that being part of the EU doesn't make a blind bit of difference one way or another to a country's security from terror threats?
The answer is: it depends. No government can protect its citizens from the determined lone wolf or small cell. We should remember that we don't even know that it was a Muslim; we're just assuming. That's sad in and of itself.
Schengen just adds to the headaches. In addition to your local threat register, you have to worry about your neighbours' radicals too.
We tend to think about the EU from our perspective. You may think its British exceptionalism, but we have one of the world's great SIGINT agencies (bolstered by UKUSA, excellent intelligence agencies and a well funded, relatively incorruptible police service.
That's not true across the bloc. From an intelligence perspective there are far more consumer countries than producers. The smaller nations gain a great deal from the collective security apparatus of the EU.0 -
I try to avoid things like the beheading videos and such but I did see the graphic video of the aftermath of this and over that short 50m or so there must have been at least 30 dead, possibly more. The scale of this is hard to really comprehend.Chameleon said:
If he went for 2km @ the rate the video showed, that may tragically not be off by too much.Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
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FWIW, I've seen a lot of dodgy videos of previous attacks, this is by some magnitude the most horrific stuff I've ever seen, had to turn it off almost instantly.AndyJS said:
What worries me is that children all over the world are inevitably going to see this footage. I didn't have to see anything like this until I was over 18.RobD said:
and if you do insist on keeping the link, put a HUGE warning on it please.AndyJS said:Brokenwheel: maybe you should make the link an indirect one.
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30*(2000m/50m)= 1200. That number is obviously very high, lets hope that it's off by a factor of 10 or more.Lowlander said:
I try to avoid things like the beheading videos and such but I did see the graphic video of the aftermath of this and over that short 50m or so there must have been at least 30 dead, possibly more. The scale of this is hard to really comprehend.Chameleon said:
If he went for 2km @ the rate the video showed, that may tragically not be off by too much.Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
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Without trying to minimise anything, believe me, these images are quite mild in comparison to what is freely available on the Internet. (horrendous accidents, torture murders, suicides, dismemberment etc)AndyJS said:
What worries me is that children all over the world are inevitably going to see this footage. I didn't have to see anything like this until I was over 18.RobD said:
and if you do insist on keeping the link, put a HUGE warning on it please.AndyJS said:Brokenwheel: maybe you should make the link an indirect one.
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I heard that as "injured".Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
But if it's several hundred dead that would make it the deadliest terror attack EVER in Europe.
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On the contrary,most other videos are places and scenarios that we can't envisage ourselves being in. This is different.MarcKlein said:
Without trying to minimise anything, believe me, these images are quite mild in comparison to what is freely available on the Internet. (horrendous accidents, torture murders, suicides, dismemberment etc)AndyJS said:
What worries me is that children all over the world are inevitably going to see this footage. I didn't have to see anything like this until I was over 18.RobD said:
and if you do insist on keeping the link, put a HUGE warning on it please.AndyJS said:Brokenwheel: maybe you should make the link an indirect one.
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Yeah, you could imagine the casualty rate being higher at the start.Chameleon said:
30*(2000m/50m)= 1200. That number is obviously very high, lets hope that it's off by a factor of 10 or more.Lowlander said:
I try to avoid things like the beheading videos and such but I did see the graphic video of the aftermath of this and over that short 50m or so there must have been at least 30 dead, possibly more. The scale of this is hard to really comprehend.Chameleon said:
If he went for 2km @ the rate the video showed, that may tragically not be off by too much.Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
Ugh, how horrible.0 -
Yeah, I hope/think so.oxfordsimon said:0 -
A German reporter captured the start of the attack, with the truck revving up and then shooting off down the road. Apparently they are showing it on German TV.0
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Dreadful eyewitness report saying truck swerved at speed all along the road mowing people down, bodies flying like bowling pins.RobD said:
Yeah, you could imagine the casualty rate being higher at the start.Chameleon said:
30*(2000m/50m)= 1200. That number is obviously very high, lets hope that it's off by a factor of 10 or more.Lowlander said:
I try to avoid things like the beheading videos and such but I did see the graphic video of the aftermath of this and over that short 50m or so there must have been at least 30 dead, possibly more. The scale of this is hard to really comprehend.Chameleon said:
If he went for 2km @ the rate the video showed, that may tragically not be off by too much.Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
Ugh, how horrible.0 -
What's the current highest?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I heard that as "injured".Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
But if it's several hundred dead that would make it the deadliest terror attack EVER in Europe.
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This might be misread as a joke but it is not meant as such so please understand my meaning.
I do hope Theresa May takes charge of the UK's response as the alternative would be a great concern.0 -
'Sky News quoting journalist: "I saw bodies flying like bowlpins ... I heard cries I will never forget"'0
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Sharia for all?Lowlander said:This might be misread as a joke but it is not meant as such so please understand my meaning.
I do hope Theresa May takes charge of the UK's response as the alternative would be a great concern.0 -
@SeanT
'Unless and until Islam decides to Enlighten itself, we have to minimise our exposure to Islam. That means minimal if not zero immigraton from Muslim countries and a series of measures designed to make life very difficult in the West for fundamentalist Muslims - no more sharia, no more Muslim schools, no more imported imams, no more burqas, no more halal slaughter, no more prayer time at work, no more understanding of Muslims cab drivers who won't take guide dogs.'
Spot on ,time to get tough the softly softly crap clearly isn't working.
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Apparently after his truck stopped - he got out and sprayed the crowds with bullets.0
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Merkel isn't a lady for U-Turning....john_zims said:@SeanT
'Unless and until Islam decides to Enlighten itself, we have to minimise our exposure to Islam. That means minimal if not zero immigraton from Muslim countries and a series of measures designed to make life very difficult in the West for fundamentalist Muslims - no more sharia, no more Muslim schools, no more imported imams, no more burqas, no more halal slaughter, no more prayer time at work, no more understanding of Muslims cab drivers who won't take guide dogs.'
Spot on ,time to get tough the softly softly crap clearly isn't working.0 -
I think it was Madrid, 2004 - 192 deadChameleon said:
What's the current highest?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I heard that as "injured".Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
But if it's several hundred dead that would make it the deadliest terror attack EVER in Europe.0 -
The problem is that the Q'ran is far less ambiguous than the Bible and as far as I am aware, it does not have anything with the qualifying effect of the New Testament. I do not see how the fairly explicit calls to war and action within the Q'ran and the calls to kill and the absolution and requirement for jihad can possible be removed from the creed.john_zims said:@SeanT
'Unless and until Islam decides to Enlighten itself, we have to minimise our exposure to Islam. That means minimal if not zero immigraton from Muslim countries and a series of measures designed to make life very difficult in the West for fundamentalist Muslims - no more sharia, no more Muslim schools, no more imported imams, no more burqas, no more halal slaughter, no more prayer time at work, no more understanding of Muslims cab drivers who won't take guide dogs.'
Spot on ,time to get tough the softly softly crap clearly isn't working.
The basis for the Reformation was re-interpretation. I don't see how Islam can manage to achieve that.0 -
BBC now showing the German reporters footage.0
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bloody hell,judging by the footage the BBC has just shown, it was 2km of dense crowds.0
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I bet even Andrea Leadsom is glad Theresa May got the job of PM ahead of her this evening.0
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I am not sure I can bring myself to watch it. The mental images are bad enough.Chameleon said:bloody hell,judging by the footage the BBC has just shown, it was 2km of dense crowds.
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Boris is going to have to step up as well...no boozy lunches with some jolly conversations with French VIPs.Pulpstar said:I bet even Andrea Leadsom is glad Theresa May got the job of PM ahead of her this evening.
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Belay that - was Lockerbie, 1988 - 270 deadSunil_Prasannan said:
I think it was Madrid, 2004 - 192 deadChameleon said:
What's the current highest?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I heard that as "injured".Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
But if it's several hundred dead that would make it the deadliest terror attack EVER in Europe.0 -
Oh f##k off BBC...they are cautioning over if it was a terror attack or just an attack.0
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Lets hope that that's still true in a weeks time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Belay that - was Lockerbie, 1988 - 270 deadSunil_Prasannan said:
I think it was Madrid, 2004 - 192 deadChameleon said:
What's the current highest?Sunil_Prasannan said:
I heard that as "injured".Lowlander said:Sky News just said possibility of several hundred dead.
But if it's several hundred dead that would make it the deadliest terror attack EVER in Europe.0 -
I remember reading some of Michel Houellebecq's novels and thinking they were a bit OTT but events are turning out to be every bit as horrific as they are in his books.0
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I don't intend to watch it again but from memory (I only half watched it through fingers semi-covering the window), there is only one genuinely graphic image of mutilation. I would say that if you are concerned, don't watch, it is quite awful.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure I can bring myself to watch it. The mental images are bad enough.Chameleon said:bloody hell,judging by the footage the BBC has just shown, it was 2km of dense crowds.
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Trump on Fox is frightening, the man is an idiot and the way he's trying to showboat this incident is beyond contempt.0
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I fess up to watching Human Centipede II on the Horror Channel on Tuesday night - that was rather cringeworthy.Lowlander said:
I don't intend to watch it again but from memory (I only half watched it through fingers semi-covering the window), there is only one genuinely graphic image of mutilation. I would say that if you are concerned, don't watch, it is quite awful.oxfordsimon said:
I am not sure I can bring myself to watch it. The mental images are bad enough.Chameleon said:bloody hell,judging by the footage the BBC has just shown, it was 2km of dense crowds.
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