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  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited July 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    I bet even Andrea Leadsom is glad Theresa May got the job of PM ahead of her this evening.

    Boris is going to have to step up as well...no boozy lunches with some jolly conversations with French VIPs.
    He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.


  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    This is the moment where I'd rather like having Cameron & Hague representing our country.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    glw said:

    Newsnight Nick "Mrs May told Osborne he had over promised and under delivered"!!!
    "Not done enough to champion deep economic reform".

    She's not wrong.
    If that version is true , I wonder what the consequences would have been had Osborne - or indeed any sacked Minister - turned around and told her to 'go and f... herself!' Has that ever happened in such an interview as far as is known?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    justin124 said:

    glw said:

    Newsnight Nick "Mrs May told Osborne he had over promised and under delivered"!!!
    "Not done enough to champion deep economic reform".

    She's not wrong.
    If that version is true , I wonder what the consequences would have been had Osborne - or indeed any sacked Minister - turned around and told her to 'go and f... herself!' Has that ever happened in such an interview as far as is known?
    Well they would be guaranteeing they would never have a job in her administration!
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited July 2016
    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    Some people just can't help themselves sadly
  • MarcKleinMarcKlein Posts: 36
    Lowlander said:

    Trump on Fox is frightening, the man is an idiot and the way he's trying to showboat this incident is beyond contempt.

    I've not seen whatever he's saying, but...

    You can rest assured all the other scumbag politicians
    Obama
    Clinton
    May
    Corbyn
    Farron

    will be trotting out the same old mantra of lies tomorrow.

    "isolated incident"
    "nothing to do with Islam"
    "religion of peace", etc

    If Trump is saying anything unorthodox, he at least deserves a hearing.
    What have we got to lose?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,781
    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    You should have seen the post pre-edit....
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited July 2016
    Chameleon said:

    This is the moment where I'd rather like having Cameron & Hague representing our country.

    Agreed. But I think, perhaps, it will just take a bit of getting used to the new style. I am sure that May can be just as authentically distressed and sympathetic as Cameron.

    EDIT

    I see the mods beat me to the complaint. You're putting one hell of a shift in. Merci.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    You should have seen the post pre-edit....
    Probably modded, since was edited post the 5min window.

    Pb mods.. omniscient...
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    Some people just can't help themselves sadly
    Clearly I've been moderated.

    Fair enough. Mike's site, Mike's rules.

    Let's wait for the trial.

    And an apology from Boris, Gove and Farage.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    You should have seen the post pre-edit....
    Oh I did - and I am sure that the site moderating team will be able to track it and take appropriate action.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Pong said:

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    Some people just can't help themselves sadly
    Clearly I've been moderated.

    Fair enough. Mike's site, Mike's rules.

    Let's wait for the trial.

    And an apology from Boris, Gove and Farage.
    Do yourself a favour, log off for the night.
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 663
    Pong said:

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    Some people just can't help themselves sadly
    Clearly I've been moderated.

    Fair enough. Mike's site, Mike's rules.

    Let's wait for the trial.

    And an apology from Boris, Gove and Farage.
    @Pong

    And an apology from you?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Unconfirmed hostage situations in two hotels. Likely to just be the rumour mill and not actually be real.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Chameleon said:

    Pong said:

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    Some people just can't help themselves sadly
    Clearly I've been moderated.

    Fair enough. Mike's site, Mike's rules.

    Let's wait for the trial.

    And an apology from Boris, Gove and Farage.
    Do yourself a favour, log off for the night.
    Or longer. Please
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    Pong said:

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    Some people just can't help themselves sadly
    Clearly I've been moderated.

    Fair enough. Mike's site, Mike's rules.

    Let's wait for the trial.

    And an apology from Boris, Gove and Farage.
    @Pong

    And an apology from you?
    Absolutely.

    Thank you for being on top of it.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016
    Hollande had decided to lift the state of emergency just a couple of hours before the attack.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-state-emergency-will-be-lifted-july-26-says-hollande
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693

    Pong said:

    john_zims said:

    @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    Some people just can't help themselves sadly
    Clearly I've been moderated.

    Fair enough. Mike's site, Mike's rules.

    Let's wait for the trial.

    And an apology from Boris, Gove and Farage.
    @Pong

    And an apology from you?
    To Boris?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712
    Chameleon said:

    Unconfirmed hostage situations in two hotels. Likely to just be the rumour mill and not actually be real.

    Bloody hell - what an eventful few days it's been, eh?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    AndyJS said:

    Hollande had decided to lift the state of emergency just a couple of hours before the attack.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-state-emergency-will-be-lifted-july-26-says-hollande

    This sort of attack is beyond the reach of any state of emergency. That is what makes it so shocking.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited July 2016
    42 in a critical condition, 77 dead confirmed.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited July 2016

    AndyJS said:

    Hollande had decided to lift the state of emergency just a couple of hours before the attack.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-state-emergency-will-be-lifted-july-26-says-hollande

    This sort of attack is beyond the reach of any state of emergency. That is what makes it so shocking.
    NBC are pointing out there was another run-down Islamist attack three years ago in France that killed 11, the driver also shouted Allahu Akbar.

    I've seen several tweets from Israelis saying this is pretty common form of attack there.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Chameleon said:

    42 in a critical condition, 77 dead confirmed.

    That still sounds too low - I am sorry to say. 2km of carnage.

    Why? Why? Why?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Chameleon said:

    42 in a critical condition, 77 dead confirmed.

    That still sounds too low - I am sorry to say. 2km of carnage.

    Why? Why? Why?
    It does, much too low.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Unbelievable.

    This is a Labour NEC member who was on TV weeping about supposedly being intimidated by Corbynites.

    https://twitter.com/francesbarber13/status/753712829535059968
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    PlatoSaid said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hollande had decided to lift the state of emergency just a couple of hours before the attack.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-state-emergency-will-be-lifted-july-26-says-hollande

    This sort of attack is beyond the reach of any state of emergency. That is what makes it so shocking.
    NBC are pointing out there was another run-down Islamist attack three years ago in France that killed 11, the driver also shouted Allahu Akbar.

    I've seen several tweets from Israelis saying this is pretty common form of attack there.
    I believe there were two, this one in Marseilles and another one, both in the days following Charlie Hebdo.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Lowlander said:

    Unbelievable.

    This is a Labour NEC member who was on TV weeping about supposedly being intimidated by Corbynites.

    https://twitter.com/francesbarber13/status/753712829535059968

    That is really unacceptable.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    Lowlander said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hollande had decided to lift the state of emergency just a couple of hours before the attack.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-state-emergency-will-be-lifted-july-26-says-hollande

    This sort of attack is beyond the reach of any state of emergency. That is what makes it so shocking.
    NBC are pointing out there was another run-down Islamist attack three years ago in France that killed 11, the driver also shouted Allahu Akbar.

    I've seen several tweets from Israelis saying this is pretty common form of attack there.
    I believe there were two, this one in Marseilles and another one, both in the days following Charlie Hebdo.
    I think it was Dijon IIRC
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Lowlander said:

    Unbelievable.

    This is a Labour NEC member who was on TV weeping about supposedly being intimidated by Corbynites.

    https://twitter.com/francesbarber13/status/753712829535059968

    Disrespectful to the extreme.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Me staying up late on here frantically trying to find info on terrorist attacks in France/Benelux seems to be an all too regular occurrence recently.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Theresa May is one of seven serving female heads of government. The others are in Myanmar, Poland, Namibia, Norway, Bangladesh, Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_or_appointed_female_heads_of_government
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    edited July 2016
    AndyJS said:

    Theresa May is one of seven serving female heads of government. The others are in Myanmar, Poland, Namibia, Norway, Bangladesh, Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_or_appointed_female_heads_of_government

    The map is wrong for the UK.. we should be dark green. Oh, it excludes monarchs. Kind of unfair then since we don't have a head of state.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,712
    edited July 2016
    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Theresa May is one of seven serving female heads of government. The others are in Myanmar, Poland, Namibia, Norway, Bangladesh, Germany.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_elected_or_appointed_female_heads_of_government

    The map is wrong for the UK.. we should be dark green. Oh, it excludes monarchs. Kind of unfair then since we don't have a head of state.
    Says excluding monarchs, unfortunately...

    EDIT: oops didn't see your edit in time :)
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Data from Pew

    Muslim Support for Suicide Bombing in France (Pew Research)

    All: 35%
    18-29 Years Old: 42%

    #NiceFrance https://t.co/o1VxBOuUkf
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    PlatoSaid said:

    Data from Pew

    Muslim Support for Suicide Bombing in France (Pew Research)

    All: 35%
    18-29 Years Old: 42%

    #NiceFrance https://t.co/o1VxBOuUkf

    Who did they sample?
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited July 2016
    Chameleon said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Data from Pew

    Muslim Support for Suicide Bombing in France (Pew Research)

    All: 35%
    18-29 Years Old: 42%

    #NiceFrance https://t.co/o1VxBOuUkf

    Who did they sample?
    That poll is over 10 years old.

    Disturbing findings, nonetheless.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Lowlander said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    AndyJS said:

    Hollande had decided to lift the state of emergency just a couple of hours before the attack.

    http://www.france24.com/en/20160714-france-state-emergency-will-be-lifted-july-26-says-hollande

    This sort of attack is beyond the reach of any state of emergency. That is what makes it so shocking.
    NBC are pointing out there was another run-down Islamist attack three years ago in France that killed 11, the driver also shouted Allahu Akbar.

    I've seen several tweets from Israelis saying this is pretty common form of attack there.
    I believe there were two, this one in Marseilles and another one, both in the days following Charlie Hebdo.

    Running over attempts by car are coming in at one or more a week in Israel in recent times.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    Pong said:

    Chameleon said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Data from Pew

    Muslim Support for Suicide Bombing in France (Pew Research)

    All: 35%
    18-29 Years Old: 42%

    #NiceFrance https://t.co/o1VxBOuUkf

    Who did they sample?
    That poll is over 10 years old.
    Probably has only got worse...
  • wasdwasd Posts: 276
    edited July 2016
    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    That is a genuinely scary image, the scale, again is just vast.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    The Fix
    The world has never been more interested in Mike Pence than it was a few hours ago https://t.co/LFy9NKMLaC https://t.co/kGn0DfRFC5
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    Hopefully most of the people in the path of the lorry were able to get out of the way in time.
  • wasdwasd Posts: 276
    edited July 2016
    Perhaps it was better when we used to find out about things like this on page three of The Times two days later.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Lowlander said:

    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    That is a genuinely scary image, the scale, again is just vast.
    Link?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited July 2016
    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city? Nice is the 5th biggest city in France according to Wiki.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    AndyJS said:

    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    Hopefully most of the people in the path of the lorry were able to get out of the way in time.
    Reports seem to indicate that he was zigzagging to ensure he hit the maximum number of people

    A sick act of a sick mind
  • wasdwasd Posts: 276
    Chameleon said:

    Lowlander said:

    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    That is a genuinely scary image, the scale, again is just vast.
    Link?
    Guardian liveblog at 1.54am.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    AndyJS said:

    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    Hopefully most of the people in the path of the lorry were able to get out of the way in time.
    Unfortunately it appears that the first place where it was seen ploughing into people is about 1/2k away from where the horrific video was taken.
  • LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Chameleon said:

    Lowlander said:

    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    That is a genuinely scary image, the scale, again is just vast.
    Link?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/14/nice-bastille-day-france-attack-promenade-des-anglais-vehicle
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city? Nice is the 5th biggest city in France according to Wiki.
    Trucks driving in a major city centre - even on Bastille night - will be very common. Unless the driver was a known threat who slipped the net, I am not sure if this sort of attack could have been prevented. And that is what makes it scary.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited July 2016
    Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
    IIRC, the road is along the coast, with a drop down the the beach on one side (w/ steps occasionally), with roads joining it at T-juntions along the other side. Wouldn't have been too hard to keep a vehicle out if suitable measures were in place.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    The Fix
    In CBS/NYT poll, 46% say Clinton would be better on national security/terrorism. 46% say Trump. https://t.co/SFIe9fHYC8
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Chameleon said:

    Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
    IIRC, the road is along the coast, with a drop down the the beach on one side (w/ steps occasionally), with roads joining it at T-juntions along the other side. Wouldn't have been too hard to keep a vehicle out if suitable measures were in place.
    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.

    At least in May we have a PM who's had daily briefings on this sort of horror for six years - and as others have observed, Johnson's first test.

    I see Trump has pulled his VP announcement. Out of respect for the victims, or because he knows he won't dominate the news cycle?
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited July 2016
    @FrancisUrquhart


    'john_zims @Pong

    'He's a truly awful person to have representing Britain right now.'


    Idiotic post of the year.

    You should have seen the post pre-edit....'


    I did,that was what my response was to.

    Think Pong would be more at home on the Momentum website.

  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Chameleon said:

    Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
    IIRC, the road is along the coast, with a drop down the the beach on one side (w/ steps occasionally), with roads joining it at T-juntions along the other side. Wouldn't have been too hard to keep a vehicle out if suitable measures were in place.
    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.

    At least in May we have a PM who's had daily briefings on this sort of horror for six years - and as others have observed, Johnson's first test.

    I see Trump has pulled his VP announcement. Out of respect for the victims, or because he knows he won't dominate the news cycle?
    Well if they had information about a possible attack tonight, via vehicle, then it wouldn't have been that hard to stop. Even if they didn't there should have perhaps been more precautions.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,893
    ok, enough watching news coverage, time to cheer myself up with some Daily Politics/This Week.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.

    This particular methodology on the other hand, they maybe didn't have on the shortlist right now though it has been 'advertised' in a number of Jihadi articles circulating in recent times.

    There is some indication from the usual IS forumites that its one of theirs behind it but none of the sources can be considered truly solid yet. If its full on controlled and executed attack by IS, they are usually quick to make a claim so it shouldn't take long.

    The French authorities do seem certain on their driver early on. Shouldn't take long for the name to emerge. The next thing is the fastest follow up possible to clear immediate accomplices and any associates who may have ideas.

    Psychologically this is a devastating incident. You want to send a message that no one can be safe or kept safe? You just got it.

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
    IIRC, the road is along the coast, with a drop down the the beach on one side (w/ steps occasionally), with roads joining it at T-juntions along the other side. Wouldn't have been too hard to keep a vehicle out if suitable measures were in place.
    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.

    At least in May we have a PM who's had daily briefings on this sort of horror for six years - and as others have observed, Johnson's first test.

    I see Trump has pulled his VP announcement. Out of respect for the victims, or because he knows he won't dominate the news cycle?
    Well if they had information about a possible attack tonight, via vehicle, then it wouldn't have been that hard to stop. Even if they didn't there should have perhaps been more precautions.
    The American phrase 'Monday morning quarterback' springs to mind....lets get the facts first....
  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Chameleon said:

    MarcKlein said:

    AndyJS said:

    RobD said:

    AndyJS said:

    Brokenwheel: maybe you should make the link an indirect one.

    and if you do insist on keeping the link, put a HUGE warning on it please.
    What worries me is that children all over the world are inevitably going to see this footage. I didn't have to see anything like this until I was over 18.
    Without trying to minimise anything, believe me, these images are quite mild in comparison to what is freely available on the Internet. (horrendous accidents, torture murders, suicides, dismemberment etc)
    On the contrary,most other videos are places and scenarios that we can't envisage ourselves being in. This is different.
    The extremists have plenty of videos of horror in Gaza/Syria etc.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    If I was in Germany, I'd be slightly concerned. They've dodged a lot of stuff (as have we) and at some point that run of luck will cease.

    Certainly IS keep aiming to do something there just as much as they would like to hit the UK, though. At this point Germany has high strategic value: the centre of a fracturing European Union (and don't you believe that doesn't factor into IS strategists calculations)

    The worrysome impression is they'd like to keep something extra for the UK. The fortune we have is that IS hasn't got the roots here as in continental Europe but it doesn't take much to do damage and kill lots of people.

    Again I do stress, whilst the assumption is IS no official claim yet. .

  • vikvik Posts: 159


    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.

    The only way to stop (or at least minimise) the atrocities is to implement stricter border controls & better vetting of migrants.
  • vikvik Posts: 159
    Y0kel said:


    The worrysome impression is they'd like to keep something extra for the UK. The fortune we have is that IS hasn't got the roots here as in continental Europe but it doesn't take much to do damage and kill lots of people.

    The fortune is that the UK is able to control its borders & monitor who is coming in & going out. Something which the French & Belgians cannot do.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    vik said:


    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.

    The only way to stop (or at least minimise) the atrocities is to implement stricter border controls & better vetting of migrants.
    How will that stop terrorists who are resident nationals? Three out of four of the 7/7 bombers were British born, the Charlie Hebdo murderers were French born.....
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Chameleon said:

    Lowlander said:

    wasd said:

    The Guardian has a map up - the distance it covers is horrifying.

    That is a genuinely scary image, the scale, again is just vast.
    Link?
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/15/lorry-rams-bastille-day-crowd-in-nice-killing-at-least-70
  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194

    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.
    (...)

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
    IIRC, the road is along the coast, with a drop down the the beach on one side (w/ steps occasionally), with roads joining it at T-juntions along the other side. Wouldn't have been too hard to keep a vehicle out if suitable measures were in place.
    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.
    (...)
    Well if they had information about a possible attack tonight, via vehicle, then it wouldn't have been that hard to stop. Even if they didn't there should have perhaps been more precautions.
    The American phrase 'Monday morning quarterback' springs to mind....lets get the facts first....
    The comment about had they expected a possible attack specifically tonight is inapposite, but since Bataclan there is supposed to have been a state of emergency, and I hope that from now on at least, anti-ram bollards will be used at all large outdoor gatherings. "Buggering up a beautiful space"? Forget that. It's possible to make some barriers double as benches, as at King's Cross station in London, but if they don't, they don't. Some further info here about how to do it.

    I don't relish saying this was a security failure, but it was.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,436
    Dromedary said:

    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.
    (...)

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
    IIRC, the road is along the coast, with a drop down the the beach on one side (w/ steps occasionally), with roads joining it at T-juntions along the other side. Wouldn't have been too hard to keep a vehicle out if suitable measures were in place.
    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.
    (...)
    Well if they had information about a possible attack tonight, via vehicle, then it wouldn't have been that hard to stop. Even if they didn't there should have perhaps been more precautions.
    The American phrase 'Monday morning quarterback' springs to mind....lets get the facts first....
    The comment about had they expected a possible attack specifically tonight is inapposite, but since Bataclan there is supposed to have been a state of emergency, and I hope that from now on at least, anti-ram bollards will be used at all large outdoor gatherings. "Buggering up a beautiful space"? Forget that. It's possible to make some barriers double as benches, as at King's Cross station in London, but if they don't, they don't. Some further info here about how to do it.

    I don't relish saying this was a security failure, but it was.
    That article talks about using fixed installations to protect against attacks on buildings. Stopping vehicles from entering a main road is a much tougher challenge.

  • DromedaryDromedary Posts: 1,194
    edited July 2016

    Dromedary said:


    I don't relish saying this was a security failure, but it was.

    That article talks about using fixed installations to protect against attacks on buildings. Stopping vehicles from entering a main road is a much tougher challenge.
    It isn't much tougher. Movable concrete barriers are used sometimes to separate lanes on motorway contraflows, and heavier ones are used to protect sites from gypsies who want to camp there. A lot of this isn't high-tech. I'm not familiar with Bastille Day celebrations, but most events that involve large crowds outside can be protected from ramming lorries, even if this means controlling where crowds can and can't be in addition to installing barriers. For example, if for some reason there is a main road which must be accessed by numerous lorries, then don't let large celebrating crowds form there.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,630
    Lowlander said:

    Unbelievable.

    This is a Labour NEC member who was on TV weeping about supposedly being intimidated by Corbynites.

    https://twitter.com/francesbarber13/status/753712829535059968

    No it's not. It's an actress.

  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,802
    Dromedary said:

    Chameleon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Y0kel said:

    AndyJS said:

    Y0kel said:

    The French knew a vehicle borne attack was due and were on alert for Bastille Day. Certainly they had indications of attacks on French interests on this day.

    A French intelligence official only a day or two ago raised the the possibility of vehicle borne bombs being the next weapon of choice for an attack in metropolitan France.
    (...)

    If they knew it might happen why didn't they have security forces on the look-out for a truck driving near the centre of a major city?
    They didn't necessarily know it was a truck, they didn't necessarily know this attack was the method. Cordon sanitaire admittedly looks missing, its called concrete bollards to enforce no vehicles. I know Nice a little bit but not sure of the geography of the location so who can tell for sure. Clearly though someone shot some rounds at that tuck.
    IIRC, the road is along the coast, with a drop down the the beach on one side (w/ steps occasionally), with roads joining it at T-juntions along the other side. Wouldn't have been too hard to keep a vehicle out if suitable measures were in place.
    The Prpmenade des Angles is several km long - its going to be impossible to stop every potential atrocity without buggering up a beautiful space.
    (...)
    Well if they had information about a possible attack tonight, via vehicle, then it wouldn't have been that hard to stop. Even if they didn't there should have perhaps been more precautions.
    The American phrase 'Monday morning quarterback' springs to mind....lets get the facts first....
    The comment about had they expected a possible attack specifically tonight is inapposite, but since Bataclan there is supposed to have been a state of emergency, and I hope that from now on at least, anti-ram bollards will be used at all large outdoor gatherings. "Buggering up a beautiful space"? Forget that. It's possible to make some barriers double as benches, as at King's Cross station in London, but if they don't, they don't. Some further info here about how to do it.

    I don't relish saying this was a security failure, but it was.
    Nonsense. How can you justify the cost of putting up barriers everywhere a possible attack may happen, no matter how infinitesimally small the probability. Making everywhere look like Parliament Square is basically giving in.
This discussion has been closed.