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Wibsey (Lab defence) on Bradford
Result of council at last election (2016): Labour 49, Conservatives 21, Liberal Democrats 10, Independents 6, Green Party 3, United Kingdom Independence Party 1 (Labour majority of 8)
Result of ward at last election (2014): Labour 1,467 (42%), United Kingdom Independence Party 1,355 (39%), Conservative 499 (14%), Liberal Democrat 191 (5%)
Referendum Result:

Read the full story here

John_M

First like Froome.

Jonathan

Finally something to talk about.

JackW

FPT .. @Jobabob

Broadly in line with most recent national polls 3-6 point Clinton lead. Exceptions were Rasmussen Trump +7 and IPSOS Clinton + 11

Pulpstar

SUPER THURSDAY

John_M

The EU are always going to trip themselves up on foreign policy. Bless.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-ruling-eu-idUSKCN0ZU1DE?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5787e96504d3012c0f6f5d5c&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Jobabob

JackW said:

FPT .. @Jobabob

Broadly in line with most recent national polls 3-6 point Clinton lead. Exceptions were Rasmussen Trump +7 and IPSOS Clinton + 11

Thanks. It does now appear that those two were (somewhat wild) outliers

Jobabob

Jonathan said:

Finally something to talk about.

JackW

Pulpstar said:

SUPER THURSDAY

Rubio Rising ?? ....

AnneJGP

Thanks, Harry. Be interesting to see if the referendum / the change at the top of government / the troubles at the top of the Labour party make any unexpectedly different outcomes.

eek

TOPPING said:

Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.

It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.

I am summarising for reasons of space.

And there are the ones on here who see what is happening in Europe and want to be as far away from it as possible when things (Greece, Italy, Deutsche Bank) finally blow up....

Pulpstar

JackW said:

Pulpstar said:

SUPER THURSDAY

Rubio Rising ?? ....

Hillary at a backable price right now.

TCPoliticalBetting

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

The_Apocalypse

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

Pulpstar

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

I do at the moment.

For the money.

It is entirely out of our hands though

AnneJGP

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

Only in the sense that I'd prefer Mrs Clinton not to be the first female POTUS.

Jonathan

eek said:

TOPPING said:

Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.

It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.

I am summarising for reasons of space.

And there are the ones on here who see what is happening in Europe and want to be as far away from it as possible when things (Greece, Italy, Deutsche Bank) finally blow up....

To be clear we are exactly the same distance away from it. The only difference is that our economy is weaker.

Pulpstar

Jonathan said:

eek said:

TOPPING said:

Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.

It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.

I am summarising for reasons of space.

And there are the ones on here who see what is happening in Europe and want to be as far away from it as possible when things (Greece, Italy, Deutsche Bank) finally blow up....

To be clear we are exactly the same distance away from it. The only difference is that our economy is weaker.

pbr2013

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

I do. Perhaps I should re-phrase that. I'd prefer him to Clinton. She is obviously corrupt.

Disraeli

Wibsey (Lab defence) on Bradford
- Labour have only a 3% lead over UKIP in second place.
- Would be potentially interesting if UKIP had any sort of ground game

Newquay, Treviglas (UKIP defence) and St. Teath and St. Breward (Ind defence) on Cornwall
- LibDems are very good at locals, and have done well recently.
- LibDem only 5% behind in Newquay, but must leap from 3rd place. 19% in the other seat, but only need to beat UKIP (so doable)

pbr2013

Shirley now is the time for stuart truth to re-emerge.

Pulpstar

Newuay, Treviglas looks exciting

TOPPING

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Yep. All that voodoo socio-anthropological analysis.

Edit: @John_M please don't respond.

The_Apocalypse

Thanks for the replies.

I'd don't like either Clinton or Trump for the record, but I consider Clinton to be the lesser evil. I don't really trust anyone in the Republican party right now.

not_on_fire

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

Plato, naturally.

Pulpstar

pbr2013 said:

Shirley now is the time for stuart truth to re-emerge.

Or @Cromwell

John_M

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

I'd like them both to lose. Neither are worthy of the presidency. However, gun to head, I'd choose Clinton.

pbr2013

Pulpstar said:

pbr2013 said:

Shirley now is the time for stuart truth to re-emerge.

Or @Cromwell

*group hug*

Pulpstar

John_M said:

I'd like them both to lose.

Do you realise how expensive that would be for some of us ?

CornishBlue

Just tried watching "The Pledge" on Sky News.

Deary me.

MP_SE

pbr2013 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

I do. Perhaps I should re-phrase that. I'd prefer him to Clinton. She is obviously corrupt.

Agreed x100

Jonathan

not_on_fire said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

Plato, naturally.

Trumps a bit too liberal and conventional for Platos tastes..

John_M

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

I'd like them both to lose.

Do you realise how expensive that would be for some of us ?

You make a strong point .

TOPPING

John_M said:

Pulpstar said:

John_M said:

I'd like them both to lose.

Do you realise how expensive that would be for some of us ?

You make a strong point .

Thank you for having the courtesy of obeying my non-response instruction.

MP_SE

John_M said:

The EU are always going to trip themselves up on foreign policy. Bless.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-southchinasea-ruling-eu-idUSKCN0ZU1DE?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5787e96504d3012c0f6f5d5c&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

LOL, typical EU:

"Despite U.S. pressure on the European Union to take a stand on the issue, the bloc has so far been unable to agree a common statement, leaving diplomats to argue over the wording acceptable to all 28 member states."

pbr2013

The_Apocalypse said:

Thanks for the replies.

I'd don't like either Clinton or Trump for the record, but I consider Clinton to be the lesser evil. I don't really trust anyone in the Republican party right now.

But it seems entirely clear that Clinton traded pay to play when she was SoS. Corrupt. Whatever you don't like about Trump he has never played that game. Boris looks totally respectable compared to either of them.

MarkSenior

Disraeli said:

Wibsey (Lab defence) on Bradford
- Labour have only a 3% lead over UKIP in second place.
- Would be potentially interesting if UKIP had any sort of ground game

Newquay, Treviglas (UKIP defence) and St. Teath and St. Breward (Ind defence) on Cornwall
- LibDems are very good at locals, and have done well recently.
- LibDem only 5% behind in Newquay, but must leap from 3rd place. 19% in the other seat, but only need to beat UKIP (so doable)

UKIP have given up in Cornwall and are not standing in either seat

Ishmael_X

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

MaxPB

John_M said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

I'd like them both to lose. Neither are worthy of the presidency. However, gun to head, I'd choose Clinton.

That's precisely how I feel. Trump would be a disaster, interesting and good for my bank balance, but a disaster. Clinton isn't going to be a lot better, in fact in some cases she will be worse, but overall she will be marginally better and the US will remove her four years later for a better Republican.

TOPPING

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

chestnut

Polish foreign minister warns Brexit could have a domino effect

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poland-idUKKCN0ZU2AQ?il=0

"He also criticised Germany for a post-Brexit meeting that German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier held with the European Union's six founding members. Waszczykowski said small groups should not be able to make decisions and then force these on to others.

"That's a recipe for catastrophe," he said.

He said he thought Britons had voted to leave the EU due to "thoughtless actions by the European elite who want to push through 'even more Europe'".

He said another feeling that had probably played a role in Britain's decision was "that Europe interferes in areas that should be solely controlled by the member states themselves".

Pulpstar

MarkSenior said:

Disraeli said:

Wibsey (Lab defence) on Bradford
- Labour have only a 3% lead over UKIP in second place.
- Would be potentially interesting if UKIP had any sort of ground game

Newquay, Treviglas (UKIP defence) and St. Teath and St. Breward (Ind defence) on Cornwall
- LibDems are very good at locals, and have done well recently.
- LibDem only 5% behind in Newquay, but must leap from 3rd place. 19% in the other seat, but only need to beat UKIP (so doable)

UKIP have given up in Cornwall and are not standing in either seat

Their local organisation does seem quite hopeless in places - it is something Woolfe is looking to change.

MTimT

pbr2013 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Thanks for the replies.

I'd don't like either Clinton or Trump for the record, but I consider Clinton to be the lesser evil. I don't really trust anyone in the Republican party right now.

But it seems entirely clear that Clinton traded pay to play when she was SoS. Corrupt. Whatever you don't like about Trump he has never played that game. Boris looks totally respectable compared to either of them.

We are having bumper stickers made up which read "Vote Trump. He'll be easier to impeach"

FrancisUrquhart

The narrative that all leavers are poor stupid little Englanders not only offensive, but nonsense. Places like surrey was basically 50/50 & the demographics there are stuffed full of rich, educated & successful types.

Ishmael_X

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Knowing what "pastiche" means not your specialised subject.

MarqueeMark

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Possibly. But he's got the measure of you!

FrancisUrquhart

CornishBlue said:

Just tried watching "The Pledge" on Sky News.

Deary me.

Brexit bop was quite funny.

TheWhiteRabbit

The US may come down to "Vote for the Crook, not the Fascist"

TOPPING

Ishmael_X said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Knowing what "pastiche" means not your specialised subject.

Don't make me quote the definition.

Hint: I was the artist whose style you were imitating. Poorly.

CornishBlue

FrancisUrquhart said:

The narrative that all leavers are poor stupid little Englanders not only offensive, but nonsense. Places like surrey was basically 50/50 & the demographics there are stuffed full of rich, educated & successful types.

The BBC, Channel 4 and The Guardian don't want to hear or know.

Leave them in their own bubble. Really, why should we care about their ignorance? It just means that those in that bubble continue to make political (electoral) mistakes. It's one of the reasons behind the surprise successes of both the Tories in 2015 and Leave in this year's ref.

MTimT

chestnut said:

Polish foreign minister warns Brexit could have a domino effect

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poland-idUKKCN0ZU2AQ?il=0

"He also criticised Germany for a post-Brexit meeting that German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier held with the European Union's six founding members. Waszczykowski said small groups should not be able to make decisions and then force these on to others.

"That's a recipe for catastrophe," he said.

He said he thought Britons had voted to leave the EU due to "thoughtless actions by the European elite who want to push through 'even more Europe'".

He said another feeling that had probably played a role in Britain's decision was "that Europe interferes in areas that should be solely controlled by the member states themselves".

The article made me want to give him honorary British citizenship. He is clearly too sensible for the EU.

TwistedFireStopper

not_on_fire said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

Plato, naturally.

Does anybody else find certain PBers' "fascination" with Plato a bit disturbing?

AnneJGP

chestnut said:

Polish foreign minister warns Brexit could have a domino effect

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poland-idUKKCN0ZU2AQ?il=0

"He also criticised Germany for a post-Brexit meeting that German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier held with the European Union's six founding members. Waszczykowski said small groups should not be able to make decisions and then force these on to others.

"That's a recipe for catastrophe," he said.

He said he thought Britons had voted to leave the EU due to "thoughtless actions by the European elite who want to push through 'even more Europe'".

He said another feeling that had probably played a role in Britain's decision was "that Europe interferes in areas that should be solely controlled by the member states themselves".

Sounds a bit like "asking on behalf of a friend".

MTimT

TheWhiteRabbit said:

The US may come down to "Vote for the Crook, not the Fascist"

See my prior post ... (at 8:02pm)

MarqueeMark

John_M said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

I'd like them both to lose. Neither are worthy of the presidency. However, gun to head, I'd choose Clinton.

I think I'd go for Trump. If only to know - just how BAD would he be? Trump is the embodiment of the big red DO NOT PRESS!! button. I can never resist them...

I suspect he would be quite centrist when in power, though.

John_M

MTimT said:

chestnut said:

Polish foreign minister warns Brexit could have a domino effect

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poland-idUKKCN0ZU2AQ?il=0

"He also criticised Germany for a post-Brexit meeting that German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier held with the European Union's six founding members. Waszczykowski said small groups should not be able to make decisions and then force these on to others.

"That's a recipe for catastrophe," he said.

He said he thought Britons had voted to leave the EU due to "thoughtless actions by the European elite who want to push through 'even more Europe'".

He said another feeling that had probably played a role in Britain's decision was "that Europe interferes in areas that should be solely controlled by the member states themselves".

The article made me want to give him honorary British citizenship. He is clearly too sensible for the EU.

The only regret I have for Brexit is we're abandoning Poland to their fate. On the other hand, they're terrible on LGBT issues, so I can channel my inner lefty and say they deserve it.

Oh, and this:
https://twitter.com/afneil/status/753682339532836868

MP_SE

TwistedFireStopper said:

not_on_fire said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

Plato, naturally.

Does anybody else find certain PBers' "fascination" with Plato a bit disturbing?

There is a slight whiff of misogyny about certain posters obsession with her.

John_M

MarqueeMark said:

John_M said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

I'd like them both to lose. Neither are worthy of the presidency. However, gun to head, I'd choose Clinton.

I think I'd go for Trump. If only to know - just how BAD would he be? Trump is the embodiment of the big red DO NOT PRESS!! button. I can never resist them...

I suspect he would be quite centrist when in power, though.

Every time I see Trump, I have flashbacks to "The Dead Zone".

MarqueeMark

CornishBlue said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

The narrative that all leavers are poor stupid little Englanders not only offensive, but nonsense. Places like surrey was basically 50/50 & the demographics there are stuffed full of rich, educated & successful types.

The BBC, Channel 4 and The Guardian don't want to hear or know.

Leave them in their own bubble. Really, why should we care about their ignorance? It just means that those in that bubble continue to make political (electoral) mistakes. It's one of the reasons behind the surprise successes of both the Tories in 2015 and Leave in this year's ref.

Channel 4 and The Guardian I can avoid buying. The Beeb? Not so much

MTimT

John_M said:

MTimT said:

chestnut said:

Polish foreign minister warns Brexit could have a domino effect

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poland-idUKKCN0ZU2AQ?il=0

"He also criticised Germany for a post-Brexit meeting that German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier held with the European Union's six founding members. Waszczykowski said small groups should not be able to make decisions and then force these on to others.

"That's a recipe for catastrophe," he said.

He said he thought Britons had voted to leave the EU due to "thoughtless actions by the European elite who want to push through 'even more Europe'".

He said another feeling that had probably played a role in Britain's decision was "that Europe interferes in areas that should be solely controlled by the member states themselves".

The article made me want to give him honorary British citizenship. He is clearly too sensible for the EU.

The only regret I have for Brexit is we're abandoning Poland to their fate. On the other hand, they're terrible on LGBT issues, so I can channel my inner lefty and say they deserve it.

Oh, and this:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/753682339532836868

Brexit is like a bad divorce. The ex provides ample evidence each day that you made the right decision.

TOPPING

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Possibly. But he's got the measure of you!

Yep. @Ishmael_X vs wide-ranging academic social attitudes study.

DavidL

On more important matters DavidL junior is 13 on Saturday and we are going to be in Manchester to see the stadium of the greatest club in the world and he is doing that sky diving thing where you get held up by blasts of air. After that we will be going out for tea and David will be wanting his lasagne on which he is a renowned expert. Can anyone suggest a good place to get said lasagne with a 13 year old in central Manchester?

Jobabob

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Possibly. But he's got the measure of you!

Yep. @Ishmael_X vs wide-ranging academic social attitudes study.

It's why I think Remainers will "win" in the end.

I just haven't worked out how yet!

saddened

Jonathan said:

not_on_fire said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

Plato, naturally.

Trumps a bit too liberal and conventional for Platos tastes..

Give it a rest. She's not even posting in here at the moment.

MikeL

Has BIS been abolished?

Official government website still shows it with Anna Soubry listed as its most senior minister (though not attending Cabinet).

Though Greg Clark not listed as a Cabinet Minister which appears to be wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers

TwistedFireStopper

DavidL said:

On more important matters DavidL junior is 13 on Saturday and we are going to be in Manchester to see the stadium of the greatest club in the world and he is doing that sky diving thing where you get held up by blasts of air. After that we will be going out for tea and David will be wanting his lasagne on which he is a renowned expert. Can anyone suggest a good place to get said lasagne with a 13 year old in central Manchester?

Leicester City haven't got a stadium in Manchester....

Ishmael_X

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Knowing what "pastiche" means not your specialised subject.

Don't make me quote the definition.

Hint: I was the artist whose style you were imitating. Poorly.

Don't be silly. You stated someone else's conclusions, omitting the reasoning "for reasons of space" and I exhibited the point that the conclusions could be stood on their head on grounds which look distinctly plausible to me; and at least I had the courtesy to provide some grounds, not omit them "for reasons of space". That is all about logic, rather than style.

fwiw I voted remain, but I don't find it easy to classify 52% of the voting public as "small-minded", and if I did I would have the manners to keep it to myself.

John_M

MikeL said:

Has BIS been abolished?

Official government website still shows it with Anna Soubry listed as its most senior minister (though not attending Cabinet).

Though Greg Clark not listed as a Cabinet Minister which appears to be wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers

It's Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy under Greg Clarke now.

Pulpstar

Jobabob said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Possibly. But he's got the measure of you!

Yep. @Ishmael_X vs wide-ranging academic social attitudes study.

It's why I think Remainers will "win" in the end.

I just haven't worked out how yet!

Remainers will win (sort of) at GEs because the non voters who swung it for Brexit don't bother to turn out more than once every 40 years.

MikeL

John_M said:

MikeL said:

Has BIS been abolished?

Official government website still shows it with Anna Soubry listed as its most senior minister (though not attending Cabinet).

Though Greg Clark not listed as a Cabinet Minister which appears to be wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers

It's Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy under Greg Clarke now.

That's what I thought - so basically the official Government website is wrong.

Sandpit

Thanks Harry for keeping these running among the political chaos elsewhere. Will be a great resource to look back at the results in the future.

MarqueeMark

Pulpstar said:

Jobabob said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Possibly. But he's got the measure of you!

Yep. @Ishmael_X vs wide-ranging academic social attitudes study.

It's why I think Remainers will "win" in the end.

I just haven't worked out how yet!

Remainers will win (sort of) at GEs because the non voters who swung it for Brexit don't bother to turn out more than once every 40 years.

You think they will stop voting if Brexit isn't delivered? Bold....

TheScreamingEagles

DavidL said:

On more important matters DavidL junior is 13 on Saturday and we are going to be in Manchester to see the stadium of the greatest club in the world and he is doing that sky diving thing where you get held up by blasts of air. After that we will be going out for tea and David will be wanting his lasagne on which he is a renowned expert. Can anyone suggest a good place to get said lasagne with a 13 year old in central Manchester?

All the truly best places, such as Hard Rock, are rammed on Saturdays in Manchester. If you can hang fire until until 6pm, the Malmaison in the centre of Manchester do some really nice food, book below

https://www.malmaison.com/locations/manchester/smoak-bar-grill/

Also the Hilton and Radisson hotels do some decent food and they are open most of Saturday

DavidL

TwistedFireStopper said:

DavidL said:

On more important matters DavidL junior is 13 on Saturday and we are going to be in Manchester to see the stadium of the greatest club in the world and he is doing that sky diving thing where you get held up by blasts of air. After that we will be going out for tea and David will be wanting his lasagne on which he is a renowned expert. Can anyone suggest a good place to get said lasagne with a 13 year old in central Manchester?

Leicester City haven't got a stadium in Manchester....

Very true but about the lasagne.

Theuniondivvie

Sick burn. And Boris such an expert on Ugandan discussions.

https://twitter.com/JoeWSJ/status/753640209460367361

Jobabob

Pulpstar said:

Jobabob said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Possibly. But he's got the measure of you!

Yep. @Ishmael_X vs wide-ranging academic social attitudes study.

It's why I think Remainers will "win" in the end.

I just haven't worked out how yet!

Remainers will win (sort of) at GEs because the non voters who swung it for Brexit don't bother to turn out more than once every 40 years.

BigRich

The_Apocalypse said:

Is there anyone on PB (besides RodCrosby and blackburn) who wants a Trump presidency?

No, A Trump Presidency is likely to be very bad, but so would a Hillary Presidency!

That's (Partly) why I'm so keen on the libertarian ticked Gary Johnson/Bill Weld!

and at 11% or 12% in some poles it not impossible that he gets in the Debates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGD8gJt7weU


Anybody else on hear 'feeling the Johnson' so to speak?

Pulpstar

Theuniondivvie said:

Sick burn. And Boris such an expert on Ugandan discussions.

https://twitter.com/JoeWSJ/status/753640209460367361

To be honest I'd be more worried about their record on gay rights, than anything Boris has said about them...

Pulpstar

@Jobabob Come and join the Lib Dems mate - none of that Corbyn nonsense here

MP_SE

Theuniondivvie said:

Sick burn. And Boris such an expert on Ugandan discussions.

https://twitter.com/JoeWSJ/status/753640209460367361

Talking bollocks. The UK is regularly considered either the top or one of the top countries in the world for soft power.

DavidL

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

On more important matters DavidL junior is 13 on Saturday and we are going to be in Manchester to see the stadium of the greatest club in the world and he is doing that sky diving thing where you get held up by blasts of air. After that we will be going out for tea and David will be wanting his lasagne on which he is a renowned expert. Can anyone suggest a good place to get said lasagne with a 13 year old in central Manchester?

All the truly best places, such as Hard Rock, are rammed on Saturdays in Manchester. If you can hang fire until until 6pm, the Malmaison in the centre of Manchester do some really nice food, book below

https://www.malmaison.com/locations/manchester/smoak-bar-grill/

Also the Hilton and Radisson hotels do some decent food and they are open most of Saturday

The malmaison menu looks superb but there is no lasagne so it won't do.

Bromptonaut

Question: Robert Goodwill still listed as a Transport Minister. Is that because he's remaining in post, or just that the reshuffle hasn't reached his level yet?

FrancisUrquhart

Pulpstar said:

@Jobabob Come and join the Lib Dems mate - none of that Corbyn nonsense here

Are just trying to get a couple more people so you can get that discount on the bigger taxi?

Charles

Pulpstar said:

Jobabob said:

TOPPING said:

MarqueeMark said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Possibly. But he's got the measure of you!

Yep. @Ishmael_X vs wide-ranging academic social attitudes study.

It's why I think Remainers will "win" in the end.

I just haven't worked out how yet!

Remainers will win (sort of) at GEs because the non voters who swung it for Brexit don't bother to turn out more than once every 40 years.

TBF their vote proabably had more impact than the last 8 general elections added together.

Remarkable efficent use of time if you ask me

Theuniondivvie

MP_SE said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Sick burn. And Boris such an expert on Ugandan discussions.

https://twitter.com/JoeWSJ/status/753640209460367361

Talking bollocks. The UK is regularly considered either the top or one of the top countries in the world for soft power.

You're in danger of looking like you really care about the opinion of a Ugandan government spokesman.

PlatoSaid

MTimT said:

pbr2013 said:

The_Apocalypse said:

Thanks for the replies.

I'd don't like either Clinton or Trump for the record, but I consider Clinton to be the lesser evil. I don't really trust anyone in the Republican party right now.

But it seems entirely clear that Clinton traded pay to play when she was SoS. Corrupt. Whatever you don't like about Trump he has never played that game. Boris looks totally respectable compared to either of them.

We are having bumper stickers made up which read "Vote Trump. He'll be easier to impeach"

CornishBlue

Theuniondivvie said:

Sick burn. And Boris such an expert on Ugandan discussions.

https://twitter.com/JoeWSJ/status/753640209460367361

Hmm. Uganda, that mighty power... remind me again why I should give a flying fck about what their government thinks of us?

United Kingdom GDP $2,849,345,000,000
Uganda GDP $24,740,000,000

A mere 116 times smaller than us.

(lol)

anotherDave

Pulpstar said:

MarkSenior said:

Disraeli said:

Wibsey (Lab defence) on Bradford
- Labour have only a 3% lead over UKIP in second place.
- Would be potentially interesting if UKIP had any sort of ground game

Newquay, Treviglas (UKIP defence) and St. Teath and St. Breward (Ind defence) on Cornwall
- LibDems are very good at locals, and have done well recently.
- LibDem only 5% behind in Newquay, but must leap from 3rd place. 19% in the other seat, but only need to beat UKIP (so doable)

UKIP have given up in Cornwall and are not standing in either seat

Their local organisation does seem quite hopeless in places - it is something Woolfe is looking to change.

Does UKIP have a strong local organisation anywhere?

AnneJGP

Pulpstar said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Sick burn. And Boris such an expert on Ugandan discussions.

https://twitter.com/JoeWSJ/status/753640209460367361

To be honest I'd be more worried about their record on gay rights, than anything Boris has said about them...

Maybe this is one time the Law of Unintended Consequences will work in our favour.

If Mr Johnson goes on stirring things up like this, the disorientated CS in the FCO are going to have plenty to worry about without giving a thought to the EU.

John_M

Theuniondivvie said:

MP_SE said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Sick burn. And Boris such an expert on Ugandan discussions.

https://twitter.com/JoeWSJ/status/753640209460367361

Talking bollocks. The UK is regularly considered either the top or one of the top countries in the world for soft power.

You're in danger of looking like you really care about the opinion of a Ugandan government spokesman.

I would concede that I'd be terrified at the prospect of playing them at football.

nunu

MarkSenior said:

Disraeli said:

Wibsey (Lab defence) on Bradford
- Labour have only a 3% lead over UKIP in second place.
- Would be potentially interesting if UKIP had any sort of ground game

Newquay, Treviglas (UKIP defence) and St. Teath and St. Breward (Ind defence) on Cornwall
- LibDems are very good at locals, and have done well recently.
- LibDem only 5% behind in Newquay, but must leap from 3rd place. 19% in the other seat, but only need to beat UKIP (so doable)

UKIP have given up in Cornwall and are not standing in either seat

UKIPs ground game is abysmal as a ukip activist said to me when leafleting with vote Leave "I like this much more organised then ukip". Although I think we could have been even more organised, we would have had a better Leave vote in inner London.

John_M

Matt.

MarcKlein

That is the poster that's going to win this thing for Trump, isn't it?

Brilliant!

JohnO

Bromptonaut said:

Question: Robert Goodwill still listed as a Transport Minister. Is that because he's remaining in post, or just that the reshuffle hasn't reached his level yet?

Correct. Only Cabinet so far; the junior ranks' announcements will be over the next couple of days.

DecrepitJohnL

DavidL said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

DavidL said:

On more important matters DavidL junior is 13 on Saturday and we are going to be in Manchester to see the stadium of the greatest club in the world and he is doing that sky diving thing where you get held up by blasts of air. After that we will be going out for tea and David will be wanting his lasagne on which he is a renowned expert. Can anyone suggest a good place to get said lasagne with a 13 year old in central Manchester?

Leicester City haven't got a stadium in Manchester....

Very true but about the lasagne.

Tripadvisor is your friend -- drill down to Manchester > restaurants, then under cuisine on the left, hit the more button and type lasagne into the box. Sort by ratings.

Having said that, remember TSE's warning about restaurants being full Saturday nights.

paulyork64

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TOPPING said:

Ishmael_X said:

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

Whereas in fact the type of Remainer who still identifies as a Remainer is small-mindedly pursuing an historical grudge, scared of Brexit, looking to an idealised past when we were contented, carefree members of the lovely lovely EU, fearful of a future outside it and fearful of taking our place in a wider world where we have to deal directly with strange people from different continents. Ironically.

Hmm.

Pastiche not your strong point.

Knowing what "pastiche" means not your specialised subject.

Don't make me quote the definition.

Hint: I was the artist whose style you were imitating. Poorly.

Is it the best selling item on the menu at the Paris branch of Greggs?

Sean_F

TCPoliticalBetting said:

So the BBC run a programme smearing all the LEAVErs that are in the 52%?

TOPPING said:
Interesting prog on R4 now about what makes people leavers or Remainers.
It is saying Leavers are small-minded, scared, looking to an idealised past and fearful of the future and outsiders.
I am summarising for reasons of space.

It does sound like confirmation bias.

PlatoSaid

MTimT said:

John_M said:

MTimT said:

chestnut said:

Polish foreign minister warns Brexit could have a domino effect

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poland-idUKKCN0ZU2AQ?il=0

"He also criticised Germany for a post-Brexit meeting that German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier held with the European Union's six founding members. Waszczykowski said small groups should not be able to make decisions and then force these on to others.

"That's a recipe for catastrophe," he said.

He said he thought Britons had voted to leave the EU due to "thoughtless actions by the European elite who want to push through 'even more Europe'".

He said another feeling that had probably played a role in Britain's decision was "that Europe interferes in areas that should be solely controlled by the member states themselves".

The article made me want to give him honorary British citizenship. He is clearly too sensible for the EU.

The only regret I have for Brexit is we're abandoning Poland to their fate. On the other hand, they're terrible on LGBT issues, so I can channel my inner lefty and say they deserve it.

Oh, and this:

https://twitter.com/afneil/status/753682339532836868

Brexit is like a bad divorce. The ex provides ample evidence each day that you made the right decision.

Some of the utterances from the Euro elite are remarkably stupid / frank.

It's as if they're forever forgetting to turn their mikes off.

Bromptonaut

JohnO said:

Bromptonaut said:

Question: Robert Goodwill still listed as a Transport Minister. Is that because he's remaining in post, or just that the reshuffle hasn't reached his level yet?

Correct. Only Cabinet so far; the junior ranks' announcements will be over the next couple of days.

Thanks. Have a professional interest. Goodwill is competent but not particularly bright.

Sean_F

anotherDave said:

Pulpstar said:

MarkSenior said:

Disraeli said:

Wibsey (Lab defence) on Bradford
- Labour have only a 3% lead over UKIP in second place.
- Would be potentially interesting if UKIP had any sort of ground game

Newquay, Treviglas (UKIP defence) and St. Teath and St. Breward (Ind defence) on Cornwall
- LibDems are very good at locals, and have done well recently.
- LibDem only 5% behind in Newquay, but must leap from 3rd place. 19% in the other seat, but only need to beat UKIP (so doable)

UKIP have given up in Cornwall and are not standing in either seat

Their local organisation does seem quite hopeless in places - it is something Woolfe is looking to change.

Does UKIP have a strong local organisation anywhere?

Thames Estuary, North Kent, and parts of Eastern England.

PlatoSaid

John_M said:

Matt.

Genuine

He's been on fire these last few weeks