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Depends on how many other people were promised the same.AlastairMeeks said:If true, today's events are still more astonishing:
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TGOHF said:
Scott Pietersen ?JennyFreeman said:It's amusing to see the Remainers acting like KP. The moment there's an English wicket he tweets 'I told you so' messages. The fact that the team is pulling together and starting to do well passes him by.
Britain will boom but the old bitter remainers (see below) will still be snarling like miserable old men at the fall of every wicket.
You had your day.
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He concluded Boris couldn't win.AlastairMeeks said:If true, today's events are still more astonishing:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/748546856905498624
What else was he to do?0 -
I know there's an American version, but I wonder if they'll make a new British House of Cards.0
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Iain Martin has a storyline.Pong said:
He concluded Boris couldn't win.AlastairMeeks said:If true, today's events are still more astonishing:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/748546856905498624
What else was he to do?
http://reaction.life/boris-done-cuckoo-nest-plot/
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There's stabbing someone in the back then there's doing a Gove
Michael Gove: Boris Johnson wasn't up to the job
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36677028
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Well, quite. The Tories are currently schooling Labour in how a leadership election is done.Patrick said:
The Tories are not in a leadership crisis at all. A PM screwed up and resigned - candidates have come forward to replace him. Yes, the usual ruthlessness comes along and the assassin failed once again to win the throne. But there is no 'crisis'. It's all very orderly. I tend to interpret 'leadership crisis' as meaning there are huge plots afoot to unseat a sitting party leader. That's the other lot!Jobabob said:No rush for the PLP, the Tories are deep in a leadership crisis. Just keep the pressure on Jez, hold on. Push push push.
Those that are running are in the race, those that aren't, aren't. The vote is on Tuesday, after which at least one will drop out and by this time next week we'll most likely have the two candidates for the members.0 -
It is too early to tell one way or another. We'll be incredibly lucky to avoid a recession. After that, it's all up to the politicians to make a deal.Brom said:
agree, some have moved on but others are in the denial stage still. This will pass.JennyFreeman said:It's amusing to see the Remainers acting like KP. The moment there's an English wicket he tweets 'I told you so' messages. The fact that the team is pulling together and starting to do well passes him by.
Britain will boom but the old bitter remainers (see below) will still be snarling like miserable old men at the fall of every wicket.
You had your day.
things are already looking much more positive for the conservatives and the economy than most of the doomsayers thought.
We need to schedule an anniversary thread for 2021. I think it'll be a bit clearer then.0 -
I was just thinking how skillful Corbyn is. At a time when the Conservatives have a PM who is serving out his notice, when the Conservatives have been split and are undergoing a painful leadership campaign, he has managed to unite Labour MPs to a level probably unprecedented since the early days of Blair's government.0
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I think Sarah Vine should avoid any invitations to the Commons roof.Morris_Dancer said:I know there's an American version, but I wonder if they'll make a new British House of Cards.
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This is where your argument falls down.JackW said:
Should 500,000? party members subvert the hopes of 9 million Labour voters?bigjohnowls said:Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members
Yes or No
No
Yes or No
9m voters voted for EICIPM
In the only major test of Corbyns popularity ie the local elections Labour gained seats compared to 2012 (EICIPMs high point)
Therefore the 9 million would appear to be growing and Jezza would appear more popular than EIC even at his highpoint.
Sorry but the arguement about right wing labour being electorally popular in 2016 is at best unproven and in my view complete bollox0 -
Unless it is a documentary. Like if thick of it, just can't live up to real life.Morris_Dancer said:I know there's an American version, but I wonder if they'll make a new British House of Cards.
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Hodges now reckons the #ChickenCoup are having a hustings next week to decide who gets the short straw...0
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He was on the BBC to bury Mr Johnson, not to praise him.TheScreamingEagles said:There's stabbing someone in the back then there's doing a Gove
Michael Gove: Boris Johnson wasn't up to the job
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-366770280 -
Michael Gove = Mark Oaten
Boris Johnson = The rent boy0 -
Gove on BBC News.
I must say I mightily impressed.
He is without doubt an absolute and total sh*t of the highest order and entirely suitable to be May's Secretary of State for BREXIT.0 -
What about 180,000 deciding the next PM?bigjohnowls said:
This is where your argument falls down.JackW said:
Should 500,000? party members subvert the hopes of 9 million Labour voters?bigjohnowls said:Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members
Yes or No
No
Yes or No
9m voters voted for EICIPM
In the only major test of Corbyns popularity ie the local elections Labour gained seats compared to 2012 (EICIPMs high point)
Therefore the 9 million would appear to be growing and Jezza would appear more popular than EIC even at his highpoint.
Sorry but the arguement about right wing labour being electorally popular in 2016 is at best unproven and in my view complete bollox0 -
All I can say at the moment is this week has completely fucked up the North London dinner party circuit.0
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You're a bad man, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:Michael Gove = Mark Oaten
Boris Johnson = The rent boy0 -
LOL Labour voters must be lining the streets to vote for these incompetentsRodCrosby said:Hodges now reckons the #ChickenCoup are having a hustings next week to decide who gets the short straw...
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Notting Hill cafe. Need I say more.Scott_P said:0 -
I know her husband much better than Theresa. He has followed a career in asset management in a large international investment manager based in London. Many of his clients are Local Government Pension Funds. And through this route I am sure that many of the key Local Government Conservatives in senior positions in Councils throughout the Country who may be helpful to her campaign may have been identified in the recent months....JosiasJessop said:
I actually know very little about May's background, her life or her marriage, especially when compared to other prominent politicians. Why is that? Have I just not noticed, is her life outside politics not noteworthy, and/or does she simply not mention it much?williamglenn said:
I'd forgotten her father was in the clergy. Yet another similarity with Merkel.AndyJS said:Theresa May at the age of 8 with her parents:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/09/01/article-2196901-14CAB61C000005DC-893_634x441.jpg
Very Clever.
Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot0 -
If you think Corbyn is the answer then the right question for you to contemplate is how quickly you might get to see your GP and pharmacist soon after.bigjohnowls said:
This is where your argument falls down.JackW said:
Should 500,000? party members subvert the hopes of 9 million Labour voters?bigjohnowls said:Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members
Yes or No
No
Yes or No
9m voters voted for EICIPM
In the only major test of Corbyns popularity ie the local elections Labour gained seats compared to 2012 (EICIPMs high point)
Therefore the 9 million would appear to be growing and Jezza would appear more popular than EIC even at his highpoint.
Sorry but the arguement about right wing labour being electorally popular in 2016 is at best unproven and in my view complete bollox0 -
Your arguments are bogus. 9m people voted Labour or for MPs. The evidence that Labour that Labour is gaining under Jez is highly disputed. The alternative to Jez is not from the right-wing. It is from every MP who is isn't Jez and or one of his best mates.bigjohnowls said:
This is where your argument falls down.JackW said:
Should 500,000? party members subvert the hopes of 9 million Labour voters?bigjohnowls said:Should 172 MPs be able to subvert the will of the 500,000 party members
Yes or No
No
Yes or No
9m voters voted for EICIPM
In the only major test of Corbyns popularity ie the local elections Labour gained seats compared to 2012 (EICIPMs high point)
Therefore the 9 million would appear to be growing and Jezza would appear more popular than EIC even at his highpoint.
Sorry but the arguement about right wing labour being electorally popular in 2016 is at best unproven and in my view complete bollox
Again, the leadership of the Labour Party is not an elective dictatorship. If you can't work with others, you're not fit for the job.0 -
I agree. It has the all the hallmarks of a stitch-up, albeit a particularly bloody one. The insurgents won a vote they weren't supposed to and in doing so fatally undermined the incumbent. The establishment settles on a safe pair of hands as the continuity leader and in a particularly effective manoeuvre gets Rebel #2 to bump off Rebel #1.Patrick said:
The Tories are not in a leadership crisis at all. A PM screwed up and resigned - candidates have come forward to replace him. Yes, the usual ruthlessness comes along and the assassin failed once again to win the throne. But there is no 'crisis'. It's all very orderly. I tend to interpret 'leadership crisis' as meaning there are huge plots afoot to unseat a sitting party leader. That's the other lot!Jobabob said:No rush for the PLP, the Tories are deep in a leadership crisis. Just keep the pressure on Jez, hold on. Push push push.
In the Labour Party on the other hand ...0 -
He looks scared. Someone's put the frighteners on Gove.TheScreamingEagles said:There's stabbing someone in the back then there's doing a Gove
Michael Gove: Boris Johnson wasn't up to the job
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-366770280 -
Don't tell JohnO, but I'm impressed by the duplicity of Michael Gove, he's like the bastard lovechild of Frank Underwood and Niccolò MachiavelliSandpit said:
You're a bad man, Mr Eagles.TheScreamingEagles said:Michael Gove = Mark Oaten
Boris Johnson = The rent boy0 -
That is a must-read. Especially the third-to-last and penultimate paragraphs.anotherDave said:Iain Martin has a storyline.
http://reaction.life/boris-done-cuckoo-nest-plot/0 -
Probably his missus.MonikerDiCanio said:
He looks scared. Someone's put the frighteners on Gove.TheScreamingEagles said:There's stabbing someone in the back then there's doing a Gove
Michael Gove: Boris Johnson wasn't up to the job
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-366770280 -
What have these muppets achieved apart from shutting down the parliamentary opposition?bigjohnowls said:
LOL Labour voters must be lining the streets to vote for these incompetentsRodCrosby said:Hodges now reckons the #ChickenCoup are having a hustings next week to decide who gets the short straw...
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OK - so if May gets the gig - who is her CotE and is there any value in the next CoftE market?
In fact if either Gove or May get the gig - it's hard to see past Leadsom as CoftE surely - her experience puts her head and shoulders above any other potential candidate - or am I missing something about May's team / who her 'Osbourne' is behind the scenes that she needs to reward.0 -
He's actually right that Boris showed he wasn't up to the job, the problem is that that's the same words he used to describe himself not long ago. He was right then, wrong nowTheScreamingEagles said:There's stabbing someone in the back then there's doing a Gove
Michael Gove: Boris Johnson wasn't up to the job
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-366770280 -
He's attacked anti-semitism, saying that being Jewish doesn't mean you are responsible for Netanyahu any more than being Muslim means that you're responsible for Islamic groups. Judge for yourself: the key extract is in the blog here, with Chakrabarti's comments.Jonathan said:
I tuned out of politics after Boris, what has Jezza done today (shudders)?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/30/brexit-live-theresa-may-and-boris-johnson-set-to-announce-leadership-bids
It's been (falsely) claimed that he compared Israel to ISIS, and I suspect that some of the reactions are based on that.
There's a separate issue that an MP in the audience says she was insulted by someone else in the audience and Corbyn didn't intervene - I don't know the details of that.0 -
Jewish reporters who were there are very clear about what they heard.NickPalmer said:
He's attacked anti-semitism, saying that being Jewish doesn't mean you are responsible for Netanyahu any more than being Muslim means that you're responsible for Islamic groups. Judge for yourself: the key extract is in the blog here, with Chakrabarti's comments.Jonathan said:
I tuned out of politics after Boris, what has Jezza done today (shudders)?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/30/brexit-live-theresa-may-and-boris-johnson-set-to-announce-leadership-bids
It's been (falsely) claimed that he compared Israel to ISIS, and I suspect that some of the reactions are based on that.
There's a separate issue that an MP in the audience says she was insulted by someone else in the audience and Corbyn didn't intervene - I don't know the details of that.0 -
Yup, why is this hard?
If you were in Corbyn's shoes, would you trust the PLP to nominate your candidate?
Once he stands down, all bets are off.
That is 100% correct.
Have been saying it since Sunday.
The PLP takes the members and Jezza for fools
QUESTION
Should a leader of a political party remain as leader when he has lost 80% of his own MPs?
Yes or no.
Yes
Well that's just overriding all parliamentary and constitutional precedent. Makes an absolute mockery of our parliamentary democracy. An insight into the far left's mind.
Sorry but you believe 172 people get to decide who is leader.
That is not the system any sensible Democratic Socialist party should accept.
That fortunately is not the system Labour has.
The PLP is to the far right of our great partys tent and will not prevail in this matter. As the members occupy the centre ground
Oh good grief, you're not still at it! The leadership of the Labour party is not an elective dictatorship.
You don't get to do anything you want just because you won a vote. If you fail in the most basic of tasks of political leadership, like being able to work with your own colleague, you cannot do the job, however many votes you might have got.
Anyway this is not about democracy. You would not make the same argument for another leader. This is about the special circumstances where a group have found themselves leading a party and want absolute control.
You think this is absolute control?
Corbyn has not failed electorally
This is a manufactured coup by Corbyn haters
Only a democratic vote resolves it
Simple really Put up or Shut up0 -
Michael Gove seems to be very ruthless indeed, and utterly untrustworthy.
Probably should have lead the Brexit negotiations himself - but not sure he should be made PM.0 -
Oops, looks like Angela Eagle has made a little error.
https://twitter.com/DougieMacM/status/7485429371396792320 -
TBH Andrea Leadsom is politically very inexperienced to go straight to Chancellor. Phil Hammond would be my guess, someone to calm the markets and also someone who knows all about the detail of departmental spending. Andrea Leadsom could be on the Brexit team, or First Sec to the Treasury.Lennon said:In fact if either Gove or May get the gig - it's hard to see past Leadsom as CoftE surely - her experience puts her head and shoulders above any other potential candidate - or am I missing something about May's team / who her 'Osbourne' is behind the scenes that she needs to reward.
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If Iain Martin is right we may well have seen the last of Gove and Osborne as well as Johnson.Lennon said:OK - so if May gets the gig - who is her CotE and is there any value in the next CoftE market?
In fact if either Gove or May get the gig - it's hard to see past Leadsom as CoftE surely - her experience puts her head and shoulders above any other potential candidate - or am I missing something about May's team / who her 'Osbourne' is behind the scenes that she needs to reward.0 -
Is Osborne behind this?Richard_Nabavi said:
That is a must-read. Especially the third-to-last and penultimate paragraphs.anotherDave said:Iain Martin has a storyline.
http://reaction.life/boris-done-cuckoo-nest-plot/
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Right been offline today and missed it all other than remainers now seem to think the stock market RISING is a portent of the economy being doomed.
Can anyone explain in a couple of sentences what is going on.0 -
I couldn't possibly speculate.williamglenn said:
Is Osborne behind this?Richard_Nabavi said:
That is a must-read. Especially the third-to-last and penultimate paragraphs.anotherDave said:Iain Martin has a storyline.
http://reaction.life/boris-done-cuckoo-nest-plot/0 -
Sterling falling = bargains in London. Markets are reacting to interest rate cut & more QE.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Right been offline today and missed it all other than remainers now seem to think the stock market RISING is a portent of the economy being doomed.
Can anyone explain in a couple of sentences what is going on.0 -
Nothing but Jonathan, SO and jobabob seem impressedPeterC said:
What have these muppets achieved apart from shutting down the parliamentary opposition?bigjohnowls said:
LOL Labour voters must be lining the streets to vote for these incompetentsRodCrosby said:Hodges now reckons the #ChickenCoup are having a hustings next week to decide who gets the short straw...
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Corbyn didn't do too badly in the locals did he or am I misremembering ?bigjohnowls said:
Nothing but Jonathan, SO and jobabob seem impressedPeterC said:
What have these muppets achieved apart from shutting down the parliamentary opposition?bigjohnowls said:
LOL Labour voters must be lining the streets to vote for these incompetentsRodCrosby said:Hodges now reckons the #ChickenCoup are having a hustings next week to decide who gets the short straw...
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Yep, this wasn't so much stabbing him in the back - more like a driveby bazooka followed by teabagging the corpse. Utterly, utterly brutal.TheScreamingEagles said:There's stabbing someone in the back then there's doing a Gove
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Fair enough - I was thinking that her lack of political experience was a good thing - much more likely to just get on with job instead of pi**ing about trying to politically screw everyone over and micromanaging everything. (cf Osborne / Brown)Richard_Nabavi said:
TBH Andre Leadsom is politically very inexperienced to go straight to Chancellor. Phil Hammond would be my guess, someone to calm the markets and also someone who knows all about the detail of departmental spending. Andrea Leadsom could be on the Brexit team, or First Sec to the Treasury.Lennon said:In fact if either Gove or May get the gig - it's hard to see past Leadsom as CoftE surely - her experience puts her head and shoulders above any other potential candidate - or am I missing something about May's team / who her 'Osbourne' is behind the scenes that she needs to reward.
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All I can say about events of the last week are that they have confirmed me in my view that no politician can ever be trusted. I accept they are a necessary evil but I would not trust one of them as far as I can throw them - and that includes the ones I will reluctantly vote for.0
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Con MP and Boris team member Kwasi Kwarteng axes Gove on the Beeb.0
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Quantitative easing.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Right been offline today and missed it all other than remainers now seem to think the stock market RISING is a portent of the economy being doomed.
Can anyone explain in a couple of sentences what is going on.0 -
So, if that should have made a difference, you are saying that this country's entire destiny should have been dictated by the prospective actions of 237 of its most despicable and disgusting inhabitants?Scott_P said:And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening
@krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show0 -
This is where PLP argument falls down.Pulpstar said:
Corbyn didn't do too badly in the locals did he or am I misremembering ?bigjohnowls said:
Nothing but Jonathan, SO and jobabob seem impressedPeterC said:
What have these muppets achieved apart from shutting down the parliamentary opposition?bigjohnowls said:
LOL Labour voters must be lining the streets to vote for these incompetentsRodCrosby said:Hodges now reckons the #ChickenCoup are having a hustings next week to decide who gets the short straw...
9m voters voted for EICIPM
In the only major test of Corbyns popularity ie the local elections Labour gained seats compared to 2012 (EICIPMs high point)
Therefore the 9 million would appear to be growing and Jezza would appear more popular than EIC even at his highpoint.
Sorry but the argument about right wing labour being electorally popular in 2016 is at best unproven and in my view complete bollox0 -
We're seeing this peculiar dislocation all over - particularly in the Labour party. People like Boris. I like Boris. MPs in the PCP by and large don't.williamglenn said:
Is Osborne behind this?Richard_Nabavi said:
That is a must-read. Especially the third-to-last and penultimate paragraphs.anotherDave said:Iain Martin has a storyline.
http://reaction.life/boris-done-cuckoo-nest-plot/
What the country needs now is dull, competent and experienced. Leadsom needs a promotion but not to CotE, that's too much. Something something Brexit. Hammond for CotE, Osborne to Foreign Secretary, in charge of sucking up to the Chinese.0 -
"Brexit: a disaster decades in the making
On the day after the EU referendum, many Britons woke up feeling that the country had changed overnight. But the forces that brought us here have been gathering for a very long time — Gary Younge"
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/30/brexit-disaster-decades-in-the-making0 -
To be fair, as ruthless as it is, if he didn't feel Boris was up to it - and amid the fact he was one of the pillars propping-up the Boris-candidacy - then he did the right thing by saying it as it is.Pulpstar said:Michael Gove seems to be very ruthless indeed, and utterly untrustworthy.
Probably should have lead the Brexit negotiations himself - but not sure he should be made PM.
There was no point Gove supporting Boris because of their Brexit allegiance and the lure of a job as CoTE if he didn't think he'd be a good PM,0 -
So he wants 100% BREXIT and Boris was going for EEA?TheScreamingEagles said:There's stabbing someone in the back then there's doing a Gove
Michael Gove: Boris Johnson wasn't up to the job
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-366770280 -
Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.0
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Which is another reason for making sure they can be chucked out every 5 years and are not unelected political bureaucrats living in a city outside the UK where only expats read the British press.Richard_Tyndall said:All I can say about events of the last week are that they have confirmed me in my view that no politician can ever be trusted. I accept they are a necessary evil but I would not trust one of them as far as I can throw them - and that includes the ones I will reluctantly vote for.
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I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.0 -
A most fulfilling experience: just completed a yougov poll with maximum points for Theresa and almost all nul points for Ghastly Gove. Was marginally more positive for Andrea.0
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Yep. Agree with that entirely.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Which is another reason for making sure they can be chucked out every 5 years and are not unelected political bureaucrats living in a city outside the UK where only expats read the British press.Richard_Tyndall said:All I can say about events of the last week are that they have confirmed me in my view that no politician can ever be trusted. I accept they are a necessary evil but I would not trust one of them as far as I can throw them - and that includes the ones I will reluctantly vote for.
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Welcome Lord Heseltine.Lowlander said:
So basically Boris did not have the courage to tell his closest allies he was not standing before he gave the speech?Scott_P said:twitter.com/faisalislam/status/748547049361117184
What an utterly gutless turd. A man without honour, conviction or even a spine.0 -
That would appear to be one of the shrouds that is being wavedIshmael_X said:
So, if that should have made a difference, you are saying that this country's entire destiny should have been dictated by the prospective actions of 237 of its most despicable and disgusting inhabitants?Scott_P said:And with the economy booming, the Brexiteers can also pretend this isn't happening
@krishgm: More than 300 hate crime incidents compared to a weekly average of 63 new figures from the National Police Chiefs' Council show0 -
NoIshmael_X said:So, if that should have made a difference, you are saying that this country's entire destiny should have been dictated by the prospective actions of 237 of its most despicable and disgusting inhabitants?
I am saying, as I said all along, that the Leave campaign was explicitly xenophobic, and that their win has legitimised these criminal acts in the minds of those committing them
And the Brexiteers who cheered so loudly are in denial about the cost of their "victory"0 -
For once I agree with Gove. Boris quite simply was not good enough.Fenster said:
To be fair, as ruthless as it is, if he didn't feel Boris was up to it - and amid the fact he was one of the pillars propping-up the Boris-candidacy - then he did the right thing by saying it as it is.Pulpstar said:Michael Gove seems to be very ruthless indeed, and utterly untrustworthy.
Probably should have lead the Brexit negotiations himself - but not sure he should be made PM.
There was no point Gove supporting Boris because of their Brexit allegiance and the lure of a job as CoTE if he didn't think he'd be a good PM,
And Gove is totally untrustworthy.0 -
If he got on the members' ballot he could effectively cut the length of the race by pulling out after a couple of weeks.Richard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.0 -
Wasn't Gove Boris' campaign manager?AlastairMeeks said:Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.
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According to the BoE they have not been doing that yet. I think they just say that it is a possibility going forward.Pulpstar said:
Quantitative easing.Paul_Bedfordshire said:Right been offline today and missed it all other than remainers now seem to think the stock market RISING is a portent of the economy being doomed.
Can anyone explain in a couple of sentences what is going on.0 -
Not in modern times. It's right up there with the Defenestration of Prague.AlastairMeeks said:Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.
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Hammond was lined up to be Chief Secretary to the Treasury in 2010 if no Coalition.
He declared very early for Theresa so must have a very good chance of Chancellor - especially as a Leave supporter would be in charge of the Govt dept doing the negotiations.0 -
Fromm-Stauffenberg?AlastairMeeks said:Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.
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"...over three quarters of Conservative-held constituencies voted to Leave, and seven in ten Labour-held constituencies.
Although Labour as a party is very much more favourable to the EU than the Conservative party, the same cannot be said of the constituencies it holds."
https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/most-labour-mps-represent-a-constituency-that-voted-leave-36f13210f5c6
"421 out of 574 English and Welsh Westminster
constituencies probably voted to Leave"0 -
Still, spouting bollocks I see Scott.Scott_P said:
NoIshmael_X said:So, if that should have made a difference, you are saying that this country's entire destiny should have been dictated by the prospective actions of 237 of its most despicable and disgusting inhabitants?
I am saying, as I said all along, that the Leave campaign was explicitly xenophobic, and that their win has legitimised these criminal acts in the minds of those committing them
And the Brexiteers who cheered so loudly are in denial about the cost of their "victory"0 -
If he was as ruthless as it appears, he would have done it as soon as Boris officially announced he was quittingRichard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.0 -
August 14th 2016
McDonnell & Corbyn.AlastairMeeks said:Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.
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Has Hammond declared? Guido suggests he hasn't.MikeL said:Hammond was lined up to be Chief Secretary to the Treasury in 2010 if no Coalition.
He declared very early for Theresa so must have a very good chance of Chancellor - especially as a Leave supporter would be in charge of the Govt dept doing the negotiations.0 -
Great works are going to be produced in future generations about the events of the last week. It has been utterly compelling drama with the most extraordinary twists.0
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The lead-up to the Wars of the Roses was a bit like this, albeit the double-crossings were more gruesome.AlastairMeeks said:Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.
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Still in denial I see, RichardRichard_Tyndall said:Still, spouting bollocks I see Scott.
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Jeremy Corbyn has been mincing his words ever since he thanked the organised Jewish community in Britain for their help to Syrian refugees. In actual fact, that organised community supports the existence of Israel, which controls the territory next door to where 5 million Arabs have recently been made refugees, which has in its history made 5 million other Arabs refugees (and we've now counted half of all of the refugees in the world), and which in the past few years has used aerial bombing and tanks to make hundreds of thousands more Arabs flee their bombed-out homes in Gaza. That organised community and the fascist regime in the Middle East that it supports have done nothing whatsoever to help Syrian refugees. No aid, no food parcels, no tents, no nothing. Of course the point stands that some individual Jews oppose the existence of Israel and have called for reparations to paid to the Palestinians and no doubt some of them have donated to the cause of the Syrian refugees. They are not to be blamed for what other Jews say and do.
Corbyn is mistaken in what he said. Most Jews do support the existence of the ethnic supremacist and fascist regime called Israel. Criticism of this or that policy of Israel, or of the way that the regime prosecutes this or that policy, is not the same as denunciation of the existence of the supremacist regime in the first place. Most Muslims, for their part, despise the fascist regime called the state of Iraq and the Levant, also known by the Arabic acronym Daesh or, in an attempt to deny the enemy even proper grammar, let alone geographical referents (thereby furthering the propaganda message that they want to take over the whole world), as "Islamic State" or "the so-called Islamic State group". (Odd how Saudi Arabia isn't known as "Kingdom" or "the so-called Kingdom group".) Most Muslims want to see Daesh smashed and they say so. They of course are not to be blamed for what a small minority of Muslims say and do in support of Daesh or in apology for it.
Let it also be said that the "Friends of Israel" groupings in all major political parties in Britain, including UKIP, are exactly what they say they are. Membership is not public, but I should imagine that Corbyn does not belong to LFI and if that is so then he deserves credit for it. Corbyn has expressed mild support for the Palestinians, in a context of a pathetic non-opposition to the existence of Israel, but that was always going to be too much for him to be allowed to be prime minister.0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29394697AlastairMeeks said:Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.
They all get their comeuppance.0 -
Im wondering how long it is before the men in grey suits persuade the others to drop out. The only credible challenger to Boris has gone and presumably for the other four it is just a case of negotiating a decent cabinet role.Richard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.
Still quite cant fathom out Gove though. He dosent come across as Brutus, but then neither did Howe. Can't help thinking that there must be more to this than politics?0 -
And another for the Brexiteers...
@markmackinnon: Carney asks room of reporters, bankers whether any feel Bank of England's warnings about Brexit have not proven correct. Response is silence0 -
Unless he is waiting until it is just himself and May to throw in the towel, avoiding the lengthy membership ballot.Scott_P said:
If he was as ruthless as it appears, he would have done it as soon as Boris officially announced he was quittingRichard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.0 -
More a Cassius - he has a lean and hungry look. He thinks too much; such men are dangerous.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Im wondering how long it is before the men in grey suits persuade the others to drop out. The only credible challenger to Boris has gone and presumably for the other four it is just a case of negotiating a decent cabinet role.Richard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.
Still quite cant fathom out Gove though. He dosent come across as Brutus, but then neither did Howe. Can't help thinking that there must be more to this than politics?0 -
He has spent weeks with Boris campaigning for Leave.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Im wondering how long it is before the men in grey suits persuade the others to drop out. The only credible challenger to Boris has gone and presumably for the other four it is just a case of negotiating a decent cabinet role.Richard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.
Still quite cant fathom out Gove though. He dosent come across as Brutus, but then neither did Howe. Can't help thinking that there must be more to this than politics?
We know from his original article that he believes in that cause for its own sake.
I suspect he came to realise overt the weeks that Boris wasn't really interested in Brexit and that having him as PM was probably going to end up with us not leaving after all.0 -
As we agreed beforehand, one of the clear upsides of Brexit was drama. However this has exceeded my wildest imaginings, and we haven't even really got started.AlastairMeeks said:Great works are going to be produced in future generations about the events of the last week. It has been utterly compelling drama with the most extraordinary twists.
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I've been thinking that he is lining this up for May (or Leadsom) but looking at that interview maybe he really is going for it as the only politician who can really bring 100% BREXIT (rather than EEA)Richard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.0 -
I posted yesterday that Corbyn was a man of unimpeachable integrity and that's not always a virtue.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Im wondering how long it is before the men in grey suits persuade the others to drop out. The only credible challenger to Boris has gone and presumably for the other four it is just a case of negotiating a decent cabinet role.Richard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.
Still quite cant fathom out Gove though. He dosent come across as Brutus, but then neither did Howe. Can't help thinking that there must be more to this than politics?
Based on everything I've read, Gove is a man of unimpeachable principle, who has the courage of his convictions. That's not always a virtue either. He's shown little hesitation in serially stabbing Cameron and then Johnson.0 -
Nope. A realist. Unlike you who seems to still be fighting yesterday's battles.Scott_P said:
Still in denial I see, RichardRichard_Tyndall said:Still, spouting bollocks I see Scott.
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Unless he thinks that 'sooner done' is best for the country, and is waiting until it's him and May in the top 2, at which point he'll pull out and we can have a new PM in a couple of weeks, rather than waiting till September.Scott_P said:
If he was as ruthless as it appears, he would have done it as soon as Boris officially announced he was quittingRichard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.
Obviously in that scenario he'll get a heap load of shit from the membership for denying them a voice I would imagine, but I'm not sure if that'd bother him if he genuinely never wants to be PM anyway.0 -
1993 - A Stab In The Dark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F212quQ1KI
2016 - A stab in the back....
Really can't believe what Gove has done today. The tosspot Thatcherite Scottish Tory Boy twat that rubbed everyone up the wrong way on a Channel 4 comedy programme in the early 90s always looked a wrong 'un!0 -
He could wait until he's edged Leadsom out for the members' ballot. Thus heroically saving the country 2 months of uncertainty.Scott_P said:
If he was as ruthless as it appears, he would have done it as soon as Boris officially announced he was quittingRichard_Tyndall said:I would suggest one further twist in this whole saga.
I still reckon Gove doesn't want to be PM. On that basis I reckon he is waiting for the right moment to pull out and effectively hand the win to May.
Obviously I could easily be completely wrong but that is just the feeling I get.0 -
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David Davies said it best on Daily Politics yesterday :AlastairMeeks said:Great works are going to be produced in future generations about the events of the last week. It has been utterly compelling drama with the most extraordinary twists.
"We're currently producing more history than we can consume"0 -
"...But more outrageous is the Bank’s warning of mayhem if Britain votes to leave. Nobel Laureates George Akerlof and Robert Shiller have explained that people act in accordance with the narratives they live. The Bank is, in effect, building a narrative of panic, which could become self-fulfilling. The central bank’s proper role is to reassure and stand-by to stem panic."Scott_P said:And another for the Brexiteers...
@markmackinnon: Carney asks room of reporters, bankers whether any feel Bank of England's warnings about Brexit have not proven correct. Response is silence
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu-referendum-why-the-economic-consensus-on-brexit-is-flawed-a7057306.html
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Good on you, TSE. Always thought you were a good egg.TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/748556169996828673
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The rupture in the Molotov-Ribentropp Pact comes close, albeit on a lesser scale.AlastairMeeks said:Can anyone think of a more ruthless political double-crossing? I have to say that I can't.
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